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2025-02-10.log
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<efraim>sneek: later tell graywolf guile-3.0.10 doesn't build on 32-bit so we're holding off until guile-3.0.11 <hapst3r>is the use of gnus strongly advised when using the DEBBUGS interface with emacs? <aure84>Hello. I'm exploring Guix for systems development. My idea is to do the development of whole systems in qemu vms before deployment in the physical systems. I have downloaded the qcow2 guix image, and copied the running configuration to hack on it. Is this a reasonable approach? <aure84>Any recommended way to separate the hardware-specific configuration (final) from the VM-specific configuration (development)? <hapst3r>aure84: cannot comment on your use case, I'm instead commenting on the image. When I used it, it wouldnt work after the first `guix pull`. I recently learned that this is because not enough space is available and that you need to resize it. May that will help. <aure84>ohm, I see. The image was working on first boot, however, when trying to come up with my own config (`guix system vm config.scm`) the vm won't build, it would get stuck. I'll give it a try. Thanks for the tip <pranav>aure84: Is this your first exposure to scheme? If not, you could set hardware specific variables in a separate file and use those in your config. <aure84>@pranav, yes, I'm quite fresh on scheme <aure84>@hapst3r that's great. I did not know there were logs for this :) <hapst3r>aure84: welcome :) Just had my moment with it when looking for an answer to my question <pranav>As I see it, the partition IDs, kernel parameters, and configs for other peripheral devices is what would need to be adapted for actual hardware. Assuming you'd recreate the same layout on disk, <pranav>Like, If you're using a swapfile, the resume_offset kernel parameter would need to be changed (for hibernation to work). <aure84>I see. How about installers? is it possible to derive an installer from a specific configuration? <pranav>Yes, you can create installer ISO files from an OS configuration in scheme. <pranav>`guix system image --image-type=iso9660 /path/to/config.scm` would create a read-only image. <aure84>would that image be a bootable installer? or a fs mirror that I need to manually copy? <pranav>(given that the last form in config.scm results in an operating system record) <pranav>You can use dd to write it to a disk. Yes, it's bootable, if the os config in the file is set up properly with a bootloader. <pranav>But if your hardware can boot the official guix installer ISOs, this shouldn't be necessary. <aure84>right. I guess you can always pull your configuration with the installer, or after base installation <pranav>Yes, e.g. for an offline installation. <meaty>Will the names of imported Go packages ever be "fixed"? <Kabouik>Hey #guix, just wondering, does anyone use Emacs EAF here? Is that compatible with Guix file hierarchy? I see no Guix package for it, and they have installation scripts, but those usually don't work with Guix. <csantosb>Seems like a framework, similar to doom or spacemacs; not an emacs package you may install <zilti>I would appreciate it greatly if someone could take a look at issues 69880, 69903, 70005, and 69918 <csantosb>zilti: `mumi current 69880 && mumi am` gives an error to me, the patch doesn't apply <erik``>sneek: later tell nckx I checked libfontconfig.so, you were right: It is empty. <sneek>erik``, nckx says: Perhaps ‘guix gc --verify={contents,repair}’ will be able to repair it, although that will of course destroy any evidence of the problem. <csantosb>Trying to package Surelog, I get "Could NOT find Java (missing: Java_JAVA_EXECUTABLE Runtime) (Required is at least version "11")" <Kabouik>csantosb: yes, that's what I was referring to. From what I read, it really opens up new graphical possibilities with Emacs, and I'd really be interested in trying it in Guix, but I'm afraid the scripts won't work out of the box. <csantosb>Any idea about where to find the java executable ? <csantosb>Kabouik: for what I see, you clone ~/.emacs.d/site-lisp/emacs-application-framework, that's it <Kabouik>There seems to be a python script to execute afterwards to install dependencies though <csantosb>For the rest, it comes to installing dependencies: previous issues just implement automatic install of them <csantosb>If the python install doesn't work for you, just `guix install` the dependencies by yourself <Kabouik>Yup, I might try that, just not really convenient <csantosb>If it fails, you may send a patch upstream, same as the previous pr; but this is independent of guix itself <Kabouik>Actually it seems their install.py does use guix install when Guix system is detected, so there's hope. I'll try it today hopefully. <erik``>sneek: later tell nckx I ran guix gc --verify=contents, glib and fontconfig are both reported as modified. <Kabouik>All the EAF installs failed because of "error while loading shared libraries: libstdc++.so.6: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory", which I think maybe an issue on my setup only, because I have already encountered it while trying to run pre-compiled binaries before. I had to use distrobox to work around that issue, not sure what in my Guix setup causes that. <csantosb>Kabouik: are you using guix system or foreign ? <erik``>How do I download and then uncompress a package substitute as it appears on the ci.guix.gnu.org servers? I have downloaded a nar (I think), but don't know how to unpack it. `cat <pkg> | guix archive --import` does not seem to recognize the input. <barreljill>/etc/ssh/sshd_config doesn't exist on my system. is that by design? <aure84>@hapst3r, to resize the qcow2 image, is it enough with `qemu-image resize`? I guess something in the vm needs also to change? <apteryx>'info readline' is one of the best investments in life ;-) <apteryx> quiz: how do you delete the text from the pointer to the start of the line? <barreljill>i hold alt-backspace until it gets to the beginning :^) <apteryx>answer: C-x Rubout, according to 'info readline'. Where Rubout == Backspace, of course <oriansj>but C-Space C-a Delete works just fine <apteryx>oriansj: yeah in emacs I'm used to do C-space C-a C-w <apteryx>C-x DEL is mapped to backward-kill-sentence in emacs; which does what it says as long as there's a sentence ended by two spaces. <apteryx>whis is the reason it's conventional in GNU to use two spaces to delimit sentences (to make it unambigous programatically) <civodul>i think it was also a typographical convention on typewriters and teletypes before that <apteryx>yes it was also (but that point alone would not make it worth it to persevere, so I prefer the other reason) ;-) <civodul>apteryx, nckx, efraim: i’ve just added futurile to the ‘guix’ group on Savannah, following your approval (since i think some of you are/were afk and the account would have been eventually deleted otherwise) <civodul>let me know if i shouldn’t have done so! <apteryx>I think I hadn't seen they reply about having added their username to savannah, or perhaps I did and forgot? I'll check. <apteryx>*having created their user on savannah <rekado>dckc: there's a manual section on certificates <rekado>it tells you what environment variables you may need to set <dckc>`guix install nss-certs` is bringing in gnome-backgrounds ?! <civodul>‘guix graph --path nss-certs gnome-backgrounds’ disagrees :-) <dckc>that's the only command I typed <dckc>I suppose I did a `guix pull` before that. Maybe `guix install nss-certs` is causing the profile to get updated? <dckc>dot has been chewing on the output of `guix graph --type=reverse-package gnome-backgrounds` for >30 cpu seconds <dckc>meanwhile, git symptoms persist <futurile>apteryx: You haven't missed an email. I'm creating a new key and updating my security process currently :-) I'll reply in the next day or so! <civodul>dckc: oh i see, that must come from one of the “profile hooks” <laurence4012>Hello all. When defining file-systems in config.scm, are they mounted on the order specified? E.g. I need to mount / and then /boot/efi. Will specifying the entry for the root filesystem first, and then /boot/efi cause them to mount in that order? <sneek>Welcome back laurence4012, you have 2 messages! <sneek>laurence4012, Rutherther says: those variables should be set only for sourcing specific etc/profile in one of the guix profiles. They aren't important otherwise, and should be unset <sneek>laurence4012, nckx says: To explicate Rutherther's excellent answer: these aren't suggestions to edit your start-up files, but suggestions to paste into your *currently running shells* if they have trouble finding new stuff. *Future shells* should find everything just fine, but Guix can't change running processes' environment. <erik``>Is it possible to remove a specific directory in /gnu/store to force it being rebuilt? <ieure>erik``, If it's not referenced by anything, `guix gc -D /gnu/store/...' will remove it. <futurile>erik``: unfortunately you have to find what's referring to it (--referrers) and remove that. If you're building a package you can use the ``guix build --check`` switch to build a second copy <futurile>erik``: commonly, the referring thing will be a generation (in my experience), so cleaning profile generations often helps <erik``>Deleted home and system generations. It is still referred to by a ton of profiles. What now? <erik``>The package is fontconfig, so I am afraid that it is part of my current profile transitively as well <erik``>libfontconfig.so is simply an empty file, and I just want to rebuild the package to see if it fixes that. <erik``>I get this with guix build --check: guix build: error: derivation `/gnu/store/xqc3cq2c22nrsgb9fxx8ak12wc8rn8pr-fontconfig-2.14.0.drv' may not be deterministic: output `/gnu/store/p0mjnj0sjfnr6lrwm9dx6ljixmnqb1bj-fontconfig-2.14.0' <erik``>Sorrym tgat got chopped of. It says that they differ. <yelninei>you could try guix build --repair or guix gc --verify=repair <erik``>Thanks for the tip, but unfortunately neither of those have solved it... <erik``>I can build it correctly with --check, can I forcibly just cp the result to the actual package? The store is readonly, but I really just need to get it to work <mra>time to build guix on my old laptop fans go brrrrrrrrr <futurile>erik``: when you rebuild it (with check) it should have compared, did it find differences? <hapst3r>I am trying to wrap my head around the debbugs interface in emacs, currently working my way around searching for bugs. <hapst3r>The manual says that I can restrict my search by subject, date, status etc. However, I don't understand how this works. Is anyone currently present using it and can supply an example of how I would search for a date range using `DEBBUGS-GNU-GUIX-SEARCH`? <alexdarcy72>Hi, just started to try guix package for emacs. When starting out emacs in wayland, I got a warning about pure GTK leading to possible crashes <craigbro>is there a way to tell guix to use multiple jobs when doing 'make check' aka, check phase? <craigbro>I know it works on the cli when I do it in a cloned repo, but I don't know how to tell the builder to pass -j to the "make check" <craigbro>oh, -c arg for build and reconfigure commands, doh1 <ekaitz>hi! when should we add the programming language name to a package? I mean python-whatever or node-whatever <civodul>roughly, you’d always add the language name as a prefix <ekaitz>i don't like that a lot, honestly <ekaitz>civodul: the codeberg thread is becoming very interesting, btw <craigbro>on guix-devel, discussion of codeberg usage <civodul>ekaitz: everyone makes the rule and you’re no exception <civodul>we even have a process for that now! <ekaitz>civodul: yeah, which I was going to use for new rulemaking but I'm very busy with personal things... <sneek>Welcome back eikcaz, you have 1 message! <eikcaz>sneek: later tell mirai, I don't recall needing "remove" anything, but thanks for the info <mirai>eikcaz: in your syncthing service start section <sneek>Welcome back mirai, you have 1 message! <sneek>mirai, eikcaz says: I don't recall needing "remove" anything, but thanks for the info <mra>currently neck-deep in legal opinions on the GPLv2/CDDL incompatibility lol <mra>lawyers sure do write a lot... <ieure>mra, Honestly think that stuff doesn't matter. I think there's legitimate debate about it and the right move for the project is to play it safe. <dstolfa>mra: and then you answer with "actually, i'm in this jurisdiction" so you get an entire second wall of text? :P <mra>ieure: seems that way? i guess it's like most legal things, where on any non-trivial issue you can find anyone expressing some opinion <mra>sorry, someone expressing any opinion <mra>i'm also trying to sift my way through the sheer amount of email that the discussion seems to have generated <podiki>zfs has grown heated in the past (and maybe heading that way again) from what i've seen. perhaps best to use the new GCD procedure really <mra>podiki: yeah, I need to look into the GCD procedure. it seems like ZFS discussion is sort of scattered across a bunch of old email threads <podiki>it has come and gone and apparently chased various people away :( <mra>working out a consensus (be it working towards ZFS support or not) would be nice. at least then if it isn't implemented and someone comes along wanting to, we can say "sorry, we came to a decision not to incorporate it" <podiki>from what i remember, gathered a few strong views/people putting in effort but not clear how widespread the attention in guix more generally <podiki>exactly, just always petered out, unresolved <mra>podiki: indeed. I wasn't really aware of that, but it seems like it (or, rather, discussion around it) has pushed multiple people away from the project <podiki>or i guess depends on who's perspective, how it ended and in what state <mra>which seems Not Good™ <podiki>something i'm trying to prevent (publicly and privately reaching out) <mra>that's good to hear. I'll look into the GCD process to see if it would be possible to get the ball rolling on at least establishing a consensus <podiki>i'm not sure if we have the people and willpower, but likely we are reaching a point we need some community...moderation? organization? action? <podiki>i'm glad to see the GCD and all that, just myself been way behind on reading in any detail. but for sure something guix has needed to grow and thrive <mra>yeah, I'll look at the GCD mailing list thread <mra>podiki: I'm also inclined to agree on community organization, although I'm reticent to prescribe anything, being that I'm very new to Guix <podiki>please don't be too reticent! new perspectives and someone fresh is often what is needed <podiki>as long as one doesn't just burst in without taking a little time and goes around shouting they know what's best...but i don't see that happening :) <mra>podiki: ah, thanks. I appreciate it. for now, I'll have a look at the GCD process. I'll try drafting something <podiki>appreciated! always good to see newer folks jumping in <mra>hopefully we're able to make some progress on this. seems like I inadvertently jumped into something that was already a sore spot for quite a few people <podiki>at the very least some sort of ending one way or another would be helpful to close it out. if that's possible :)