IRC channel logs

<ytc>rekado: so, you add your emacs packages to your home config and the install others with guix package, right?

<ytc>or vice versa

<saravia>hi, question, someone know some about lambda native "android development?" lambda-native.org

<rekado>ytc: nope, I install everything with “guix home”; and system stuff with “guix system”. I don’t use “guix package” at all.

<rekado>anything not in my home or system config gets installed with “guix shell” whenever I need it.

<janneke>wow, curl's test suite keeps coming up with new test failures, each time it's run

<janneke>ACTION enters iteration 8

<ytc>rekado: I mean, I still don't understand why Guix offers two ways to install packages for user. One can accomplish the same thing with manifest files also.

<ytc>creating and deleting profiles is also very elegant.

<ytc>but installing packages with home profile doesn't fill any gap

<rekado>ytc: home services can also install packages

<rekado>configuration and installation are often closely connected, so I think it makes good sense to allow for deployment and configuration in the same tool

<zamfofex>ytc: It’s a way to have a unified place for Guix‐related (and sometimes/ideally other program related) user configuration. I’d say ‘guix package’ is *mostly* obsoleted by it, but now serves a purpose as a lower‐level tool may you come to need it.

<ytc>home services will install packages that are needed, it is perfectly reasonable. i didn't like the way (home-packages (list "icecat" "emacs"))

<ytc>i didn't try it, when i switched to a new home profile, do I need to restart my window manager or something?

<civodul>ACTION sent hopefully final patches for "guix locate" -> https://issues.guix.gnu.org/62264#10

<ytc>in order to make it start in the fresh home

<rekado>zamfofex: I agree that with “guix shell” + “guix home” there is little technical reason for “guix package” to exist, though it still serves as a more familiar entry point for those who approach Guix as a package manager.

<dthompson>ACTION still hasn't made the switch to guix home

<dthompson>I go ham with guix shell tho

<ChocolettePalett>guix package is good for quickly installing something to try it and roll back later

<dthompson>I use guix shell for try-before-you-buy stuff

<ytc>is there any situation where installing packages to system profile is preferred to installing them to user's profile, other than those with the xsession files?

<saravia>ytc: and for put an image on login screen, how you make it?

<ChocolettePalett>Since

<ChocolettePalett>> Exiting the shell places the user back in the original environment before guix shell was invoked. The next garbage collection (see Invoking guix gc) may clean up packages that were installed in the environment and that are no longer used outside of it.

<ChocolettePalett>It is preferrable to use ``guix package`` for those who don't have a good internet connection or intend to reboot (if I understood the part about exiting shell right) while trying the new package

<ytc>saravia: I didn't know it was possible. How could I do it?

<saravia>ytc: I have guix in a virtual machine and never archieve change login image photo, is one of a reazons becose I'm here : P

<saravia>ytc: for the moment not in a file for build a enviroment, only for a clean instalation, I want put my photo in login screen : (

<ytc>gdm doesn't have a feature like this, or you should use gnome i guess

<saravia>ytc: I try with xfce

<saravia>ytc: you recommended gnome?

<ytc>also, gnome has this `connect your accounts' feature, which I think should be purged from guix's one. since it promotes non-free services.

<saravia>ytc: gnome have that functionallity?

<ytc>its lock screen is very similar to the GDM and you can set profile pictures there.

<saravia>ytc: not only my photo on login screen, not connect accounts

<ytc>but i'm not sure it changes GDM's one

<ytc>maybe you have to create .face file in your home directory or something

<saravia>.face and fortmat png?

<saravia>ytc: ^

<cbaines>jpoiret, regarding https://issues.guix.gnu.org/60824 sounds like it could do with being pushed to a non-master branch. Then yeah, creating a guix-patches issue requesting that branch is merged would be good

<ChocolettePalett>saravia: You might want to try LightDM if you use XFCE, because GDM seems to be developed for Gnome. LightDM supports changing background relatively easy.

<mirai>cbaines, jpoiret: guix refresh gives me approx. 6 packages that would be rebuilt

<mirai>if that number is to be trusted

<pret7>heya!

<sneek>Welcome back pret7, you have 1 message!

<pret7>what's the most straightforward way to add a command line option to an existing service?

<sneek>pret7, nckx says: Thanks, I restarted mumi-worker on berlin.

<pret7>I want to enable per request logs on dnsmasq https://thekelleys.org.uk/dnsmasq/doc.html, but I'd rather not copy over the whole service just to add one line here:

<pret7> https://github.com/guix-mirror/guix/blob/e8f9fb3e03ea8fee0e13f13706a6b16414f74a7b/gnu/services/dns.scm#LL791C1

<pret7>just requires adding a -q cli-flag

<iyzsong>pret7: i'd modify the service in a local checkout of guix

<pret7>hmm, I'll do that for now

<pret7>do I just use https://guix.gnu.org/cookbook/en/html_node/Direct-checkout-hacking.html that?

<pret7>so `sudo ./pre-inst-env guix system reconfigure <<path-to-system.scm>>`

<pret7>but I'll see if I can puzzle out an append-to-cli macro, I've wanted to do this a few times.

<iyzsong>yes, that should do. append-to-cli seems hard to implement though..

<anemofilia>Which syntax for defining services is the old one?

<anemofilia>The onde with gexps?

<anemofilia>Or the one with #:start, #:stop, #:reload? etc

<anemofilia>?

<carmenshea[m]>Question: I have a Guix Home environment running, works well, however I would like to make some changes my .bashrc file. Currently that file is read only and is linked to the Guix Store. How do I edit the .bashrc file and then get the changes back into the Guix Home environment?

<HiltonChain[m]>carmenshea: <https://guix.gnu.org/en/manual/devel/en/html_node/Shells-Home-Services.html>

<carmenshea[m]>Hilton Chain: HI.

<civodul>Hello Guix!

<sneek>Welcome back civodul, you have 1 message!

<sneek>civodul, wingo says: would it be ok if bytevector-slice where start is 0 and count is bytevector len, if it just returned the source bytevector?

<jpoiret>mirai: guix refresh gave me 10k when i checked yesterday

<PotentialUser-11>hello guys,

<PotentialUser-11>I am using guix and I just installed davfs with 'guix install davfs'. How can i start the program now?

<carmenshea[m]><PotentialUser-11> "I am using guix and I just..." <- I was going to answer this...but first needed to know what davfs was...however it doesn't show in Guix Packages. What is davfs?

<ChocolettePalett>File System for CalDAV something

<carmenshea[m]>ChocolettePalett: I'd be willing to bet that davfs is a dependancy of another program. Its probably launched by a different program. I assume your trying to get access to a Calendar server?

<PotentialUser-11>carmenshea[m] it is davfs2, sorry, it works different than I expected.

<PotentialUser-11>carmenshea[m] you are on spot

<carmenshea[m]>PotentialUser-11: spot? Probably not as I'm not sure what that is.

<PotentialUser-11>ChocolettePalett you are on spot

<PotentialUser-11>it is working for now, thanks

<ChocolettePalett>You are welcome :D

<carmenshea[m]>PotentialUser-11: Sorry I couldn't help. I've just located the package definition: https://packages.guix.gnu.org/packages/davfs2/1.6.1/

<PotentialUser-11>sudo mount -t davfs https://tableendec663.owncloud.online/re /mount/point

<PotentialUser-11>mount: /mount/point: unknown filesystem type 'davfs'.

<PotentialUser-11>did anyone have this error before?

<PotentialUser-11>Is it possible to run AppImage in guix

<PotentialUser-11>?

<jpoiret>PotentialUser-11: you'll need to install davfs system-wide

<jpoiret>ie. in your system's config.scm

<jpoiret>otherwise mount won't find it (classic mount helper shenanigans)

<PotentialUser-11>jpoiret thanks, I will try

<PotentialUser-11>otherwise mount won't find it (classic mount helper shenanigans) :D

<ngz>Hello Guix!

<civodul>hey ngz!

<civodul>what's up with tex-team? :-)

<ngz>civodul: Hi! Well, it seems that tex-team branch needs a rebase once again.

<mirai>jpoiret: whoops, I think my guix checkout is a tad out of date

<civodul>ngz: heh ok :-) is there a blocker or is it just that qa.guix isn't catching up fast enough?

<cbaines>there's quite a lot of big changes still being pushed straight to master, which jump the queue in effect over the tex-team changes

<cbaines>in particular, the recent sbcl upgrade seems to have broken sbcl on armhf-linux, so I'm not sure we'll get to 80%+ substitute availability with that breakage

<ngz>civodul: There is no blocker on my side. qa.guix cannot build it fast enough. I'm only working on "tex-team-next" nowadays. But it is not yet ready.

<ngz>I assume this is because some heavy patches are pushed to master and delay branch processing.

<ngz>Ah, this is what cbaines wrote above :)

<civodul>cbaines: the figures at https://qa.guix.gnu.org/branch/master are quite good though, so i'd guess qa.guix is not really lagging behind?

<cbaines>civodul, yeah, I think armhf-linux has breakages, i686-linux is lagging a bit, and those numbers are also slow to update (so the true values can sometimes be higher)

<cbaines>I'm up for tex-team being merged in roughly it's current state, although maybe it's sensible to merge these changes first https://qa.guix.gnu.org/issue/63459

<cbaines>(but they're pretty much ready as well)

<civodul>the policy change?

<civodul>that looks orthogonal to me

<cbaines>yeah, maybe it is

<civodul>i agree https://issues.guix.gnu.org/63459 should be merged though!

<jpoiret>cbaines, civodul: maybe it would be good to clarify at which point a branch can be considered good to merge

<civodul>yeah

<ngz>(and who is going to merge it)

<civodul>you :-)

<ngz>ACTION blushes.

<jpoiret>all of them,

<cbaines>jpoiret, although I'm sort of OK if people are just informed. At the moment changes get merged with little idea of the impact.

<jpoiret>I agree, it's less than ideal

<cbaines>I think it's hard to come up with any strict requirements other than it should be an informed decision

<civodul>cbaines: i think it's improving, but the feedback cycle can be too long to be practical sometimes

<jpoiret>this can be merged as is and clarified in the future anyways

<civodul>i think the ideal is a green light when we reach 100%, but we know it won't happen most of the time, for a variety of reasons

<cbaines>civodul, improving that should be as simple as not pushing big changes directly to master, and using more machines for testing

<jpoiret>having branches instead of stacks of patches makes rebasing quite annoying i think, although I've never done it myself

<jpoiret>but it's more of a git problem for us

<civodul>rebasing is usually okay since we're looking at isolated changes

<civodul>as an example, for https://qa.guix.gnu.org/issue/63642, i find it hard to decide what to do

<civodul>i won't wait for a green light on armhf because that would take too long and it wouldn't converge

<civodul>(as in: i'd have to rebase to get up-to-date info)

<ngz>In practice, it is hard to get information about the "compatibility" of a branch. It never happened so far with "tex-team", since it always reports thousands of pending builds.

<civodul>but then there's that one failure on x86_64, and i'm not sure it's "my fault"

<civodul>ngz: "compatibility" in what sense?

<ngz>mergeability if you wish

<civodul>ok

<cbaines>civodul, for https://qa.guix.gnu.org/issue/63642 there's definately more to do in the qa-frontpage to make the information easier to consume

<cbaines>civodul, the most significant change seems to be the julia breakage on i686-linux

<civodul>cbaines: oh? (i was looking at qgis on x86_64)

<cbaines>civodul, if you look at the i686-linux row, there's a big jump in the blocked number, which I guess is because of julia

<civodul>actually i don't know the difference between "Blocked" and "Unknown"

<cbaines>but going back to what I was saying about being informed, I'm not sure it's the qa-frontpage's job to say what's good to be merged, although I think it should say when it's finished doing testing, and flag the issues better

<civodul>i thought both had to do with pending builds

<cbaines>civodul, blocked is sort of like "failed (dependency)" in Cuirass

<cbaines>unknown represents builds that haven't happened yet

<civodul>oh! perhaps it should be labeled "Dependency failed" and "Pending"?

<cbaines>that sounds OK to me

<cbaines>... I've got to dash though, I'll be back online a bit later

<civodul>ttyl!

<ngz>Or use icons from Cuirass (the red triange, the red cross…) and display text when hovering mouse over them.

<ngz>I need to go too.

<ngz>I'll also be back online a bit later (if anyone cares ;))

<civodul>see you! :-)

<PotentialUser-66>guix pull on my iso usb give the following error any help is appreciated "guix pull: error: Git error: the SSL certificate is invalid"

<PotentialUser-11>Can I run appimages on guix?

<civodul>PotentialUser-66: hi! what do you have in that ISO? is it the Guix 1.4.0 installation ISO or is it something else?

<pkill9_>PotentialUser-11: not out of the box, but it can be easily done

<pkill9_>PotentialUser-11: i made a script a while ago to make it possible to run appimages: https://git.sr.ht/~pkill9/guix-fhs

<pkill9_>not sure if it still works

<PotentialUser-11>pkill9_ cool, thank you for sharing, davfs2 working fine for me right now, but I will put it in my notes in case I come cross the problem again.

<civodul>PotentialUser-11: hi! alternatively, i think you can run them within "guix shell -CF", see https://guix.gnu.org/en/blog/2023/the-filesystem-hierarchy-standard-comes-to-guix-containers/

<PotentialUser-11>civodul That looks even more promising, thank you very much.

<civodul>yw

<civodul> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36239195

<pkill9_>hmm yeh forgot about guix shell

<pkill9_>that will simplify my script

<patched[m]>I have issues with compiling latex documents.

<patched[m]>`tlmgr list --only-installed | grep tikz-cd` seems to imply tikz-cd is installed. However, compiling a document including tikz-cd complains: "No file tikz-cd.tex."

<patched[m]>Am I correct when I think tikz-cd is installed with texlive?

<jpoiret>patched[m]: how did you install texlive?

<jpoiret>i think most people nowadays use the modular texlive method, rather than the monolithic one

<jpoiret>huh, but we don't have a modular package for tikzcd now that i'm searching for it

<jpoiret>i should probably contribute all my package definitions

<patched[m]>My bad, I used include rather than usepackage facepalm

<jpoiret>arf, it happens

<jpoiret>remember that the environment name is tikzcd and not tikz-cd (yes, very intuitive!)

<patched[m]>Yep, I noticed that :)

<evilsetg[m]>Hello guix, I am trying to symlink `/lib/ld-linux.so.2->/lib/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2` inside a guix container shell. I tried the -S/--symlink option but since /lib is mounted read only that does not work. Does anyone have an idea how I could achieve this?

<jpoiret>you'll need to add a package that contains the given symlink to the profile i'm afraid

<jpoiret>here /lib is symlinked to the profile's /lib directory, which is in the store and thus shouldn't be edited

<evilsetg[m]>Ah, okay, good to know. Then I will do that. Thank you :)

<mekeor>oh no, so many people having problem with .so files being named differently...

<jpoiret>evilsetg[m]: you could also patch the relevant binaries to use the right dynamic linker

<jpoiret>i think patchelf can do this, or just manually patch PT_INTERP

<civodul>ACTION chats with rekado over HN

<civodul>evilsetg[m]: have you tried "guix shell -CF" to get an FHS-style tree including /lib, /bin, etc.?

<cbaines>not a day goes by at the moment without building sbcl and all it's ~1600 dependents, on most systems. With the change today we're now 3 for 3.

<civodul>patched[m]: re texlive, "modular" texlive is highly recommended: https://guix.gnu.org/manual/devel/en/html_node/Using-TeX-and-LaTeX.html

<jpoiret>civodul: we don't have tikz-cd yet though :)

<jpoiret>i have a bunch of package definitions lying around that I haven't contributed, might wait for wip-texlive to see how it's going first though

<civodul>jpoiret: heh ok; i'm just making general hand-wavy recommendations you know ;-)

<rekado>civodul: it’s the Socratic method!

<rekado>except that we provide the answers right alongside our questions

<civodul>rekado: true! and we're having an interesting discussion: nice people, great ideas, etc.

<rekado>a common theme in HN threads is this weird hostility towards Guix and free software, so it’s good to discuss with a person on HN who really gets it :)

<janneke>ACTION is always flabbergasted to read hostility towards free software

<janneke>if it "just works", everyone is happy to (needlessly?) pay $$$ to run it on their phone

<janneke>if it needs a patch, or a wiser hardware choice, there's hostility

<civodul>rekado: indeed, i find the place much more welcoming now :-)

<rekado>it seems like some people tend to view explicit boundaries as threatening or personal criticism if these boundaries don’t align with theirs.

<janneke>yeah, i found that out when i went vegan

<rekado>we’ve got ourselves a labelled bucket, and for whatever doesn’t fit you can get yourself another bucket; and since the buckets all have the same opening diameter there’s no discrimination against the label on your buckets or their contents

<civodul>beautiful metaphor :-)

<civodul>but yeah, it's very similar to being vegan

<civodul>another interesting with HN: 90% of the comments are off-topic

<civodul>like, it always instantly goes to Nix vs. Guix, NoN-FRee-oH-My, DSL

<janneke>there are similarities, when people find out i do not (hardly) use non-free software, they think i'm a freak, when they find out i won't consume animal cruelty, they often take personal offence

<janneke>(are we off topic yet? ;)

<bjc>i think it comes from people not deeply questioning their own preferences and how they align with their personal beliefs; they suspect the other person may be on to something, but don't want to give up their comfortable position of both believing in the rectitude of their morality and their actions, which may actually be somewhat opposed on deeper inspection

<janneke>re Nix vs Guix, it *should* be about nix/guix vs legacy (brute-force effort) package management

<bjc>i often think that, should humanity survive the next hundred or so years, we'll look back on this time and think about how barbaric we were to do such things to animals

<bjc>i still eat meat, though

<civodul>now we're off-topic :-)

<civodul>janneke: agreed, it should be Nix/Guix vs. the other options

<evilsetg[m]>civodul: I have been using guix shell -CF.I just forgot mentioning that I am using fhs. In general it works great :).

<dthompson>congrats/condolences on the hn front page attention ;)

<janneke>ACTION is afk for a bit

<civodul>dthompson: feel free to join the discussion, we're among fine people :-)

<zamfofex>Hello, Guix! 👋 🎉

<zamfofex>I have recently shared oh #hurd some interest on thinking about and working on some way to use Guix Home for limiting resource access to certain packages on the Hurd. The #hurd people seemed mostly unamused, but I was wondering what people here might think: https://logs.guix.gnu.org/hurd/2023-06-07.log

<jpoiret>zamfofex: i don't think you should be looking at package transformations for this

<jpoiret>we don't have nice abstractions with which to write "container environments" though

<zamfofex>Isn’t that what ‘guix shell -C -m’ is for? I guess you then don’t get to specify the resource access (e.g. ‘-N’) on the manifest file itself, though.

<jpoiret>yep, that's what i was talking about

<jpoiret>you want a declarative interface to this like (operating-system ...)

<zamfofex>I suppose so, but the thing is that it won’t actually be used by anything other than ‘guix shell’, so it feels to me like, even though it would be nice, you could get away with a shell script that invokes ‘guix shell’ with the appropriate flags on your repo/project as a more immediate solution.

<csepp>anyone knows why this gcrypt error might show up when trying to import a package? "Function not implemented"

<csepp>i'm on a private branch that i recently rebased onto master, so it's possible i messed up something in the importer code, but it seems unlikely.

<csepp>both the local checkout and the build environment's guix are running commits from today

<csepp>hash-algo is sha256 according to backtrace

<jpoiret>csepp: can you try deleting scripts/guile and `make` again?

<csepp>jpoiret: hmm, sure, but i did a git clean -Xf before building, wouldn't that have taken care of that?

<ieure>I have a channel signing key configured in /etc/config.scm, like this: (append (list (plain-file "channel-signing-key.pub" "(public-key (ecc (curve Ed25519) (q #key-id#)))")) %default-authorized-guix-keys)

<jpoiret>you didn't recurse into subdirectories with -d

<ieure>It seems to work, but it feels wrong to have the (public-key ...) sexp in a string like that.

<ieure>Is there a better way to do this? I don't want to reference a file on disk, I want the keysig to be inline in config.scm.

<csepp>jpoiret: btw do you mean scripts/guix? there is no scripts/guile

<jpoiret>i did mean guile

<jpoiret>but it's actually in ./, my bad

<jpoiret>is your system's guix generation recent?

<PotentialUser-11>I tried to start an Appimage like described here, but I get the following error:

<PotentialUser-11>dave@host ~/Downloads$ guix shell --container --network --emulate-fhs --development ungoogled-chromium gcc:lib --preserve='^DISPLAY$' --preserve='^XAUTHORITY$' --expose=$XAUTHORITY --preserve='^DBUS_' --expose=/var/run/dbus --expose=/sys/dev --expose=/sys/devices --expose=/dev/dri --

<PotentialUser-11>./VSCodium-1.78.2.23132.glibc2.17-x86_64.AppImage --appimage-extract-and-run

<PotentialUser-11>guix shell: package 'gcc' has been superseded by 'gcc-toolchain'

<PotentialUser-11>guix shell: error: package `gcc-toolchain@11.3.0' lacks output `lib'

<PotentialUser-11> https://guix.gnu.org/en/blog/2023/the-filesystem-hierarchy-standard-comes-to-guix-containers/

<PotentialUser-11>Can anybody help me this? What eodst

<csepp>jpoiret: you mean guix-daemon? that's probably a bit old. the one in my user profile is from today.

<jpoiret>if your system's a bit old, you might have some issues with mixing glibcs

<jpoiret>that's always been the source of those gcrypt errors in checkouts

<PotentialUser-11>What does it exactly mean, that gcc-toolchain lacks output 'lib'?

<csepp>jpoiret: hmm, thanks, gonna reconfigure and try again.

<elevenkb>Hey there suppose one has something like `(use-modules ((gnu packages irc) #:prefix gnu:))`...

<elevenkb>... and one wants to do something like #$gnu:irssi say? How does one do that, I always get an undefined-variable error when trying to build.

<elevenkb>E.g.:

<elevenkb>1. just #$gnu:irssi gives me an undefined variable error when I try to evaluate the package definition, so I can't even build it.

<elevenkb>2. #$'gnu:irssi doesn't work either.

<elevenkb>I get an undef. variable error at build time here.

<elevenkb>Sorry for messing up the numbering, I'm getting used to the matrix bridge.

<jackhill>elevenkb: no idea. I wonder if it's a deficency in the gexp support. Have you tried something with an explicit (ungexp …) rather than #$ convienence?

<elevenkb>jackhill: Eh, I just used #:select to restrict to what I need from (gnu ...) and then got rid of the #:prefix clause.

<jackhill>elevenkb: ha! Congrats on a solution. I still wonder if what you were trying could be made to work.

<PotentialUser-11>my chromium crashing, when I download guix: https://ftpmirror.gnu.org/gnu/guix/guix-system-install-1.4.0.x86_64-linux.iso

<PotentialUser-11>Really strange behaviour

<johnabs[m]>jpoiret: Hey, I just realized, would it be possible to roll back gcc-toolchain to fix the xmonad problem we discussed yesterday until that fix you mention gets patched through?

<johnabs[m]>Actually, all the gcc-toolchains are now using glibc 2.35. And I'm not sure installing a downgraded version of glibc will work in this case.

<HexMachina>civodul: your article (re: HN) is very good but one thing in it that I haven't quite wrapped my head around, and that isn't explained, is the difference between (package (inherit ...)) and (package/inherit ... ), and both are used in one example right next to each other. And if the package-with-configure-flags method returns a package directly, why

<HexMachina>can't the define-publics just use its return value directly, instead of nesting it inside a slightly-different package inheritance mechanism?

<PotentialUser-11>how do I start the neon package: I just downloaded, but when I type neon nothing happens. Can anybody help, please?

<PotentialUser-11> https://packages.guix.gnu.org/packages/neon/0.32.2/

<jpoiret>HexMachina: package/inherit interacts well with grafts (the replacement field)

<jpoiret>ie. if the original package is grafted, then the inherited package is grafted as well but still inherits the transformation

<jpoiret>otherwise, the inheriting package would not apply the transpormation to its replacement

<HexMachina>jpoiret would it be possible for these to be merged into one function that takes some extra arguments to alter its behavior? The presence of two very similar but subtly-different methods, used right next to each other in this article with no explanation, gives a big impression of "you need to be an expert to even start doing simple things"

<PotentialUser-11>so many problems, how are you holding through this, I am so frustrated?

<jpoiret>HexMachina: well, you can't really, because (inherit ...) is part of the (guix records) interface, it's usable for every single guix record, of which packages are an example. package/inherit is a specific function that only makes sense for packages.

<PotentialUser-11>I feel so much pain

<svn>Hello, i'm new to guix. i installed my system with the gnome desktop. Now i want to start to configure the system. As a first small step i want to use wayland, in the documentation i found that i can configure the gdm-service-type. But i stuck how i really do it? how do i know that the code is valid and so on? Sry for the noobish questions.

<psycotica0>PotentialUser-11: Maybe I'm crazy... but it doesn't look like that package has a binary called neon in it, so that's definitely not going to work. What are you trying to do? Is this your first time using guix?

<jpoiret>svn: you'll need to use the (modfiy-services ...) form. Let me paste an example from my config https://paste.debian.net/1282398/

<jpoiret>oops, it'll probably be %desktop-services and not %base-services in your config.scm though!

<jpoiret>it's written off the top of my head, didn't test it

<jpoiret>psycotica0: right, neon seems to be a library

<PotentialUser-11>psycotica0 So I just try to fine an alternative to dropbox, because I don't get the sync script to run. I figured, that I had to use an alternative, so I found owncloud. I tried davfs2, which is working, but way too slow. Then I went for the sync job from owncloud, which has an appimage. I failed to run that one as well and search for another

<PotentialUser-11>solution with webdav, that is hopefully faster. Am I doing something wrong here?

<svn>jpoiret thx i will try.

<PotentialUser-11>I just feel tremendous pain and it is a good, but I don't now, what I am doing wrong right now. Additionally chromium just crashes, when it wants to download something from my file system.

<psycotica0>PotentialUser-11: Ok... so how did you end up with guix at the end of that? And what does that have to do with the neon package?

<PotentialUser-11>psycotica0 I don't know how to start to the application or who to find the docs for that package in guix

<PotentialUser-11>and yes, I am very new to guix.

<psycotica0>It _sounds_ like maybe what you want is the `owncloud-client` package? I've never used owncloud, but it has the word "sync" in the description 😄 https://packages.guix.gnu.org/packages/owncloud-client/

<PotentialUser-11>psycotica0 oh man, :D you are the best

<psycotica0>I think I'm just confused where "neon" came from? It seems like nothing in your description has anything to do with the C library called neon?

<svn>jpoiret in my conf.scm it looks like this https://paste.debian.net/1282399/. I dont have this (cons* ) form.

<PotentialUser-11>psycotica0 I meant this: https://packages.guix.gnu.org/packages/neon/0.32.2/

<jpoiret>then replace the %desktop-services by (modify-services %desktop-services ...)

<jpoiret>PotentialUser-11: that is still a library

<jpoiret>it doesn't have any corresponding binary

<psycotica0>Right, that's what you linked before, but I'm not sure where you found that. That's a library that a software developer would use to *make* a program, but it's not a program on its own.

<jpoiret>ah, didn't read the previous messages, my bad

<PotentialUser-11>jpoiret oh, thanks, that makes sense now. It is a C library. I somehow did not get this.

<PotentialUser-11>Should I use guix instead of docker?

<svn>jpoiret it worked thanks. what exactly i need to get this kind of things done by myself?

<jpoiret>reading through the manual will give you some ideas

<jpoiret>see the "System Services" heading under "(guix) Using the Configuration System"

<psycotica0>PotentialUser-11: Right, that's unfortunately a question that depends on what you want, and you may not know what you want.

<psycotica0>Docker and guix both solve the problem of giving you software with dependencies together, which makes it easy to download.

<psycotica0>Docker will make it so when you're running the code it is running in a contained environment, which can be good for some things. Guix on its own is just like running any software on your computer, it has access to the whole computer environment, but guix can *also* make a Docker container if you ask it to.

<psycotica0>So the hardest part will be learning enough to do what you want. If you find a guide in Docker that is already written and looks good, it may be easiest to follow that unless you have a reason not to.

<jpoiret>guix can also run software in isolated environments without relying on Docker at all

<jpoiret>the main difference between Docker and Guix is that Guix is a software distribution, not just an isolation tool. So you get better composability. Docker just relies on base images of distributions and their package manager

<PotentialUser-11>psycotica0

<PotentialUser-11>psycotica0 thank you for the eloboration, I think, I don't know, what I want for now, except runnig some webserver

<PotentialUser-11>jpoiret yes, that makes sense

<Cairn>I'm trying to run guix system init on a foreign iso. Do I still need to start the cow-store to do this? Is that even possible on an iso with systemd?

<PotentialUser-11>Can I run an owncloud server on guix or would that be an too ambitious project?

<PotentialUser-11>Can anybody give me their opinion about that topic, please

<lilyp>I don't think it's been done yet, but it should be php packaging + defining a service IIUC

<lilyp>as for how ambitious that is, I can't really say – I don't know how much of the web owncloud/nextcloud pulls in

<PotentialUser-11>lilyp what does IIUC mean? Do you think, it can be done by a noob like me?

<PotentialUser-11>lilyp you answered my question before I could pose the question:)

<PotentialUser-11>lilyp so, I could try at least, right?

<mirai>PotentialUser-11: it's an acronym

<mirai>lilyp: nextcloud uses npm so it will be dependent on work in that front

<mirai>building aside, if you go with the official instructions that recommend apache it should be 'alright'

<mirai>adapting to nginx might be its own can of worms though

<PotentialUser-11>@mirai you mean, I just install a webserver and then build owncloud without packaging it?

<mirai>one can always half-ass the thing, use nextcloud as a container hosted by guix

<mirai>depends on how guix-y you want the process to be

<PotentialUser-11>mirai could I not run it directly in kubernete without guix?

<mirai>ideally, nextcloud should be packaged in guix and have its own service definition

<mirai>PotentialUser-11: sure, but then there's no guix in the equation now is there

<PotentialUser-11>mirai okay, thanks a lot for your input

<mirai>my (uninteresting) answer was that "yes, you can run nextcloud on guix. How well integrated depends on your motivation"

<mirai>full guix package or container+service definition

<Guest55>Does someone run GNU Guix system on a Raspberry Pi 4? Appearantly it is now possible and I want to run it as well (currently it runs Ubuntu and I don't like it)

<PotentialUser-11>mirai I think, it would be a good exerise for me and valueable for the community

<PotentialUser-11>mirai for now, i would go with the fastest solution for me, just to have something, but having it packaged would be the cleanest, probably

<jpoiret>Cairn: ah, that's going to be a bit more annoying

<Cairn>How so?

<jpoiret>well you can't just start the cow-store with shepherd

<Cairn>It doesn't look like I need to at least. I made a mistake with the bootloader in my config, but other than that, the init was working well

<jpoiret>if there is enough space on the tmpfs then it should be fine

<Cairn>Just barely enough space, I think

<jpoiret>that's great then

<Cairn>I'm doing a super minimal config anyway

<mirai>janneke: late but relevant <https://alotfromlydia.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/img_7602.jpg>

<mirai>What's the second value #<store-connection> used for that is returned from a (with-store store …) call?

<mirai>Do I need to "close it"?

<Cairn>Gosh, so close

<Cairn>jpoiret: I'm getting "error: unknown filesystem." when `grub-install` runs

<Cairn>The partition is fat32, and I turned on the esp flag

<Cairn>Ope, one sec

<Cairn>Nope, same error still.

<morenonatural>hey, sup everyone... I was wondering if/how can I use guix as a replacement for an appimage

<morenonatural>for example, I download neovim appimage to /usr/bin and chmod+x that file

<morenonatural>can I have a script that only has `exec guix neovim $@` that serves the same purpose?

<Cairn>Sounds like you're trying to do the work guix already does

<morenonatural>that's cool

<morenonatural>thanks

<morenonatural>souns like it's what I'm looking for

<Cairn>jpoiret: Well I got a success, but after grub, it boots to a blank screen and a blinking cursor.

<Cairn>Oh well. Failed experiment.

<morenonatural>another related subject: I'm doing guile scripts and sometimes I use 3rd party code, say guile-json... can I run guix in a "virtual env" that includes that code? can I have the resulting script using guile from that venv as shebang? would it run guile code as compiled?

<ternary>So I've needed to get the path of some built package and I came up with something that works, but it feels like I've definitely came up with a more complicated solution than is necessary. I would have thought that getting the path of a package was a common task

<ternary>(lowered-gexp-sexp (with-store store (run-with-store store (lower-gexp #~(#$packagename)))))

<ternary>Is there an easier way to do that?

<jpoiret>Cairn: can you boot with nomodeset in the grub command line?

<jpoiret>use `e` in grub to temporarily change the command line

<carmenshea[m]>Good Morning. How do I edit my .bashrc file now that I'm running Guix Home? .bashrc is now read only and links to a Guix Store file. I do have the 'legacy' files where I can get the original .bashrc file and edit that...how do I put those edits back into my Guix home?

<tricon> carmenshea[m]: You can edit the source .bashrc file where Guix "homed" your original files, then redeploy your home.

<zamfofex>carmenshea[m]: You should use the Bash service configuration on your Home configuration file.

<zamfofex>You can specify a ‘local-file’ for it.

<carmenshea[m]>zamfofex: Thank you for the hints. I'll see what I can do.

<zamfofex>carmenshea[m]: You’re welcome! See: https://guix.gnu.org/manual/devel/en/html_node/Shells-Home-Services.html#index-home_002dbash_002dconfiguration and also https://guix.gnu.org/manual/devel/en/html_node/G_002dExpressions.html#index-local_002dfile

<ngz>sneek later tell rekado I fear scattering texlive-bin across packages may be a dead-end: most binaries contain a reference to texlive-bin itself, and it doesn't seen possible to create a lib output either (cycle detected in the references at the end of the build process).

<sneek>Got it.

<rekado>ngz: yes, I have to admit I didn’t really understand that part

<sneek>rekado, you have 1 message!

<sneek>rekado, ngz says: I fear scattering texlive-bin across packages may be a dead-end: most binaries contain a reference to texlive-bin itself, and it doesn't seen possible to create a lib output either (cycle detected in the references at the end of the build process).

<ngz>rekado: It means that any minimal TeX setup needs to bring along 700Mb of texlive-bin.

<rekado>that doesn’t sound good :)

<ngz>Yup =/

<rekado>I’m having a question, which is really an itch to scratch: I need to work a bit on RStudio, and the package definition we have in guix-science comes with build phases that set up a few things before we can configure and build.

<rekado>Now I’d really like to be able to run those phases in my checkout to execute these preparations

<davidl_> when you have the non-standard output as an input package, for example (list isc-bind "utils"), then how do you refer to it with #$(this-package-input ??)

<rekado>has anyone played with running individual build phases outside of the daemon?

<rekado>can we perhaps generate the builder script as usual and pass it our own values for “out”?

<rekado>and add some extra control structures to run it selectively?

<rekado>in order to make this possible, would it make sense to retain a little more structure in the generated builder scripts?

<mirai>requesting reviews for (relatively short) patches: <https://issues.guix.gnu.org/62465> and <https://issues.guix.gnu.org/59621>

<ngz>davidl_: Have you tried (this-package-input "isc-bind:utils")? (untested)

<davidl_>ngz: yes, did not work

<davidl_>I could try some search/find procedure that finds the command, trying to remember/find what it is now

<rekado>davidl_: the generated label is the package name of isc-bind

<rekado>the output is not part of the generated label

<davidl_>rekado: just "bind" worked, too simple!

<davidl_>thanks :(

<davidl_>:)

<carmenshea[m]><zamfofex> "carmenshea: You’re welcome! See:..." <- Awesome...thanks

<davidl_>rekado: except that the generated /gnu/store/ path does not contain the utils output.

<civodul>mirai: hi! thoughts on https://issues.guix.gnu.org/63851 ?

<rekado>davidl_: do you have both isc-bind and its utils output in the inputs?

<mirai>whoops, that one got buried in my inbox (I know, I'll eventually work on organizing it)

<davidl_>no, I have (inputs (list pkg1 pkg2 (list isc-bind "utils") pkg4 pkg5 ...)

<mirai>civodul: Have you thought on defining a texi macro instead?

<mirai>@defproc perhaps?

<mirai>or @deproc

<mirai>saves some typing

<davidl_>rekado: unfortunately, I have to leave for the night, but Ill check again tomorrow if you have more suggestions.

<mirai>would also eliminate a somewhat notable class of errors spotted in the past, that was mixing @deftype and @deffn up or “incorrect” data within the brackets

<civodul>mirai: i think i tried and gave up, but i'm not sure why

<civodul>it would be better indeed

<mirai>I can look into it

<civodul>would be nice

<civodul>Texinfo macros may be too limited: fixed number of arguments, special syntax when using them

<civodul>at first sight anyway

<mirai>ah, texi macros can't span more than a single line

<mirai>I don't see anything in the manual that covers the "what if I want more than one argument"

<mirai>indirectly they suggest to use a "proper macro processor" like M4

<civodul>well, yes but no :-)

<mirai>😂

<civodul>so i guess we'll have to duplicate {Procedure} after all?

<civodul>someday we'll replace this Texinfo implementation by Guile's, and we'll make it extensible...

<mirai>I think so, yes

<civodul>ok

<civodul>i'll apply the patch before it conflicts then

<civodul>d'oh, i hadn't seen the list of branches at https://qa.guix.gnu.org/

<mirai>I've thought on experimenting with Guile sxml x Docbook for document authoring and automatic documentation generation from within guile

<civodul>if i were to do that, i'd look at Skribilo for the middle end, and Texinfo for the front end

<mirai>saves the trouble of "reinventing" yet another markup language (and you get semantic niceties going the (s)xml route)

<mirai>never heard of skribilo, bookmarking it for later investigation

<ChocolettePalett>I wanted to try sxml parser, but it didn't have sxml->html function :(

<singpolyma>ChocolettePalett: how would sxml->html be different from sxml->xml ?

<ChocolettePalett>singpolyma: sxml->xml outputs xml, and I want the best HTML standard, I don't remember which one: either XHTML or HTML5...

<singpolyma>HTML5 allows for XML syntax calls it XHTML5

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2023-06-08.log