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<littlebobeep>what why would a theoretical Guix IRC server ban Tor users
<Aurora_v_kosmose>littlebobeep: More that they wouldn't bother with maintaining the infra required for it to work well.
<Aurora_v_kosmose>Libera's most maintenance-intensive service is probably the onion gateway.
<littlebobeep>well making an onion is super simple
<nckx>Not aiming the excrement directly at your face is not banning anyone. I'm simply not a masochist.
<nckx>*excrement cannon, even.
<patched[m]><hnhx[m]> "I dont understand who would ever..." <- It's mostly because other people already use it. People generally use what they need to talk to their contacts before other considerations.
<Noisytoot>For small servers onion authentication may be enough.
<Aurora_v_kosmose>We need to switch over to Gnunet at some point, given how the internet only seems to get more broken day by day... but that's sadly still WIP
<hnhx[m]>patched[m]: Well I deleted my Discord even though I had people there who I talked to. If they REALLY want to keep in touch with me they will create a Matrix account anyway.
<hnhx[m]>and well just ignore those who wont contact you because they need to download a new app and create an acc lol
<hnhx[m]>because clearly you wont matter to them if they wont do such a simple task for you
<hnhx[m]>You should always tell people to switch to FLOSS, don't let them force you to use spyware.
<littlebobeep>everyone in #scummvm is using Discord and they say it is easier and better or something I don't know why they don't use Matrix
<Aurora_v_kosmose>That mostly means they didn't try.
<Aurora_v_kosmose>Discord asks for more PII than most matrix servers for registration.
<ulfvonbelow>is there a pre-inst-env equivalent for multiple channels? Does setting GUIX_PACKAGE_PATH work? It's irritating to have to 'guix pull' every time I want to rebuild my system configuration, adds a lot of time between iterations
<nckx>I forgot I'd started a ‘guix weather’ to bordeaux earlier today. “87.2% substitutes available (19,665 out of 22,552)” is a nice result.
<kaelyn>ulfvonbelow: you should be able to do something like 'guix system -L /path/to/your/channel build your-system-config.scm' (I do that to test changes to my shared system definition, etc)
<nckx>But unexpectedly, I get “87.5% substitutes available (19,739 out of 22,552)” for!
<nckx>That's… good.
<KarlJoad`>Can wrapping a program "permanently" change flags passed to a program on the command line? Or can wrapping only modify the environment the wrapped program runs in?
<patched[m]><hnhx[m]> "You should always tell people to..." <- I do, but most people don't even know about the free software movement. They use the software that gets the job done of contacting their friends, which will inevitably be what their friends are using. We must keep these network effects in mind when we try to tackle these issues.
<Aurora_v_kosmose>Corposcum spend a lot of money on acquiring user mindshare and locking them in.
<patched[m]>E.g., it is easier to get people to switch if you've nurtured a small kernel of friends who use a free replacement actively. Then you have some network power to get people over.
<nckx>KarlJoad`: That's not the intended use of the current wrap-program/wrap-script helpers, which only set environment variables. There's nothing stopping you from writing your own phase instead, if you think it's the right thing to do. It's so likely to violate POLA that I'd be very cautious to do so, but it's possible.
<horizoninnovatio>Curious: has anyone tried refind as a grub replacement?
<emacsomancer[m]><Noisytoot> "I couldn't find a Matrix..." <- nheko seems to work for me ok on Guix. (element is also available via flatpak; it's a bit heavier than nheko)
<noisytoot[m]>It works now (although I see your message as a reply to "Unretrieved event")
<emacsomancer[m]>noisytoot[m]: (probably need to scroll back through the history to get it to load)
<mitchell>hello guix. Recently emacs was updated to 28.1 and now emacs-evil fails to build :(. Does anyone who knows more about emacs know about this?
<ulfvonbelow>gnunet tests seem to be failing now
<littlebobeep>ulfvonbelow: failing to build, or...?
<ulfvonbelow>failing to build
<ulfvonbelow>in the check phase
<Aurora_v_kosmose>Nheko lacks a few features.
<Aurora_v_kosmose>Most clients other than the webUI lag behind a bit.
<apteryx>nckx: it works after the update, but now emacs-elpy is borked
*apteryx tries fixing it
<kitty1>I'm noticing the emacs-evil problem as well ;; but im more confused what package even has evil mode as a dependency since I am no longer using it? ... I thought I had gotten rid of it huh
<ulfvonbelow>I've noticed that when a build fails I no longer get the full chain of derivations it causes to fail, which I was able to use to figure out why it was getting built in the first place
<littlebobeep>Aurora_v_kosmose: what does Nheko lack?
<Aurora_v_kosmose>littlebobeep: For one it lacks the ability to request keys from other devices for conversations.
<Aurora_v_kosmose>It lacks a few others but I don't care much about those so I didn't memorize them.
<horizoninnovatio><nckx> "I forgot I'd started a ‘guix..." <- What does "guix weather" do?
<nckx>Report how many substitutes (a) substitute server(s) provide(s).
<nckx>Defaults to ‘query all packages’, but also useful to find out if, say, icecat has already been built on any of your configured substitute servers.
<KarlJoad`>nckx: I don't think I'll wrap it. I'll just pollute the user's home environment with symlinks instead.
<nckx>As evil plans go, a much better one.
<KarlJoad`>My thought exactly.
<atka>hi guix, getting guix system: error: open-file: No such file or directory: "/var/guix/profiles/system-1-link/parameters" when trying to guix system list-generations
<atka>what causes this? it has happenend before and appears to prevent rollbacks
<apteryx>just some checks; is this file really nonexistent? if it exists, is there a (version 1) in it?
<atka>apteryx: there is a /var/guix/profiles/system-1-link file, no system-1-link/parameters file or system-1-link/ directory, there are several other system-n-link/ directories
<atka>last time this happened I had to delete-generations and garbage collect then new generations would show up again, now a guix system reconfigure does not show a new generation
<KarlJoad`>Just to double-check, does Guix define an enumerated type somewhere?
<apteryx>KarlJoad`: is your question rather if there are enums in Guile?
<apteryx>atka: weird :-( your drives are healthy?
<KarlJoad`>I mean, that would be the base condition I guess, yes. I know Guix defines configurations on top of record types, so figured I would check with Guix too.
<atka>apteryx: yes, drives are new and working, this has happened on a laptop and now a server
<apteryx>I remember using an enum somewhere, it's implemented via some srfi
<atka>unfortunate as I was giving a server tour and talking about the generations and was greeted with the error :(
<apteryx>atka: OK. If you can come up with a reproducer with the exact Guix versions being used, that'd be useful
<apteryx>ouch, Murphy's law at its best
<apteryx>I do not know what could cause this
<atka>I'm not sure either, everything works and nothing strange has been done, no extreme use cases or anything
<atka>guix pull --list-generations works, same with guix package, guix system reconfigure works, but list-generations is broken
<KarlJoad`>apteryx: I found something in the guile manual. Can be done with SRFI-1 or using (rnrs enums (6)).
<apteryx>ok, and with that I could find the example in Guix: the ntp-server-type field of the <ntp-server> record in (gnu services networking) accept an enum
<atka>apteryx: so I was able to switch generations to 10 generations ago and that worked, guix system list-generatins still failed so I ran guix system delete generation 1 and now the broken link is gone and list-generations works again
<atka>so easy fix, I'll be on the lookout to see what causes it if it happens again
<atka>garbage collection should clean that broken generation up now then?
<horizoninnovatio><nckx> "Defaults to ‘query all packages’..." <- Thank you. Yes useful.
<KarlJoad`>apteryx: Thanks! That will really make some of this coding more resilient.
<emacsomancer[m]>sort of figured out the mutter issue: it seems that if I've installed gdm with wayland, the build of mutter fails unless gdm with wayland is already installed (given current ci substitutes issues)
<emacsomancer[m]>(so I had to revert to a previous generation where gdm-with-wayland was installed in order to reconfigure - didn't matter whether I was trying to reconfigure with or without wayland; build fails unless I'm on a generation with gdm+wayland)
<unmatched-paren>hi guix :) anyone having any problems with wifi or is it just me? the system isn't recognising my ath9k wifi dongle
<unmatched-paren>i got ethernet working with some fiddling
<mekeor[m]>unmatched-paren: for me, my ath9k wifi dongle always worked ootb. never experienced issues with it
<unmatched-paren>for some reason the ath9k module wasn't loading, so i modprobed it, but that didn't help
<abrenon>hello guix
<mekeor[m]>unmatched-paren: did you test the dongle on another distro/OS/machine?
<littlebobeep>unmatched-paren: I just had my first faulty ath9k card, it showed networks but could not authenticate/associate
<abrenon>I come in peace and bring an offering of two goats: 🐐🐐
<littlebobeep>troubleshooted too long ugh
<unmatched-paren>mekeor[m]: it's always been a bit slower than the inbuilt wifi card, but i'm fine with that -.o.-
<unmatched-paren>mekeor[m]: no, i don't really have another machine to test it on
<unmatched-paren>(wow, this ethernet is fast :P)
<unmatched-paren>mekeor[m]: where did you get your dongle? i got mine from thinkpenguin
<littlebobeep>unmatched-paren: your internet connection is fast enough to notice a hit using 802.11n?
*unmatched-paren searxes 802.11n
<unmatched-paren>ah, wireless standard
<unmatched-paren>littlebobeep: no i think it's the dongle
<unmatched-paren>"but i'm fine with that -.o.-"
*littlebobeep says 'searxes' too
<littlebobeep>Well ath9k_htc dongles might get theoretical 150Mb/s if I am not mistaken
<littlebobeep>unmatched-paren: did you test your throughput to another machine on LAN?
<unmatched-paren>anyway, that's not the problem here; it literally is not functioning right now, i was wondering whether anyone else was experiencing difficulties, perhaps with updates of certain packages
<unmatched-paren>apparently not -.o.-
<unmatched-paren>the dongle is plugged in but does not show up in `nmcli device show
<unmatched-paren>only the ethernet and loopback do
<littlebobeep>unmatched-paren: I had extreme difficulties with a QCNFA222 card in ath9k like I said, but it might depend on the chipset, and it sounds like you might not even be using ath9k
<littlebobeep>but rather ath9k_htc
<unmatched-paren>ah, yes, it's ath9k-htc
<littlebobeep>then you definitely have a different chipset than I did, I can't help sorry, but you need to have correct firmware for that to be loading
*unmatched-paren modprobes ath9k_htc
*unmatched-paren is disappointed by modprobe
*sheertj is sad that unmatched-parens is disappointed.
<hnhx[m]><unmatched-paren> "searxes 802.11n" <- I dont like searx. I hosted it for a while but i hate that you need idk how many third party python libs and frameworks and whatnot. So i just made my own meta search engine in PHP without any 3rd party php libs or js.
***littlebo1eep is now known as littlebebeep
***littlebebeep is now known as littlebobeep
<civodul>mothacehe: hey! looks like the fix for inferiors/Cuirass didn't work after all:
<mroh>Love, Peace & Guix! Good morning!
<civodul>hey, howdy mroh! :-)
<mothacehe>hey civodul! yeah i'm following your brave investigations on the topic, i'm sorry i can't provide more support at the moment
<civodul>np, i hope i'll find more inspiration soon
<nckx>Good morning, Guix!
<zeta_reticuli>hckx: hi
<nckx>Greetings, new(?) person!
<zeta_reticuli>nckx: I finally installed GNU GuixSD and it seems pretty good
<nckx>It's all right. A few too many bugs marring master at the moment.
***ChanServ sets mode: +o nckx
<littlebobeep>zeta_reticuli: I don't think it is called Guix SD anymore, maybe "GNU Guix System"?
<littlebobeep>SD is kind of sad anyway it reminds me of low-res videos XD
***ChanServ sets mode: +o litharge
***litharge sets mode: +b *!*@2001:470:69fc:105::2:120c
***ChanServ sets mode: -o nckx
***litharge sets mode: -o litharge
<nckx>That was insanely hard to type but we got there.
<nckx>The name GuixSD (rightly) hasn't been used for years, but is clearly kept alive in corners of the interweb.
*pashencija[m] sent a code block:
<jonsger[m]>hey guix folks :)
<littlebobeep>jonsger[m]: moinsie!
<tbss[m]1>The pinebook is all freedon?
<zeta_reticuli>nckx: in GNU Guix's cookbook says that not recommended edit files in /gnu/store. But can I copy torrc file(for example) to gnu/store/tor?
<tbss[m]1>near the ryf?
<nckx>pashencija[m]: So are we all when we get the tenth such COMPLETE bug report of the day (I'm responsible for that bit, but only because people were reporting the same ‘bug’ with no info). There's a patch suggestion to make it print more useful info, I think. Anyway, probably a network error, just try again, and accept this apology from Guix Inc.
<nckx>zeta_reticuli: No, it's more than a recommendation, it's a ‘no, really, don't’. The store is read-only; even if you can technically hack around that fact, it won't bring you pleasure.
<littlebobeep>tbss[m]1: Wifi/BT no work, also some proprietary firmware for keyboard and stuff, also no USB-C video output, but interal display GPU I think supports OpenGL 3.x
<nckx>zeta_reticuli: My /etc/guix/system.scm configures tor as (service tor-service-type (tor-configuration (config-file (local-file "torrc.moloch")))) with my configuration file in the same directory.
<zeta_reticuli>nckx: thank you
<koszko>Hi, I have a question: how to remove a Guix profile I no longer use?
<nckx>Have you tried rm?
<nckx>‘guix gc’ should notice the dead links in /var/guix/profiles and collect unreferenced store items.
<koszko>nckx: well, it's a bit complicated... When running on a foreign distro I executed 'guix pull' as normal user. It created '~/.config/guix/current'. I later noticed that 'pull' is meant to be run as root. And so I realized the 'current' profile is unneeded. I then unlinked '~/.config/guix/current' but 'guix gc --list-roots' still shows a few ones with 'current' in the name
<nckx>I'll address the most important thing first:
<nckx>”I later noticed that 'pull' is meant to be run as root.” — no, actually. What made you think that? A strange message about git checkout ownership perhaps?
<koszko>No. What made me think that were some doc instructions regarding the installation of Guix. All examples I saw seemed to be using 'guix pull' to update the global profile
<nckx>(OK, good, because that message was bogus and has since been fixed.)
<nckx>‘guix pull’ as root (either when logged in as root, e.g., with su, or with ‘sudo -i guix pull’ but never ‘sudo -E guix pull’) is useful on foreign distributions because it's the only way to update the system-wide daemon. However, you don't need to do that often, and the vast majority of pulls (to update available packages) should be done as you.
<nckx>The left-over --list-roots aren't harmful in any way, but if you want to reclaim a tiny bit of space or they just bug you (I sympathise) you can run, I believe, ‘guix pull --delete-generations=1s’.
<nckx>‘I believe’ because honestly I just clean up my /var/guix/profiles by hand to this day.
<nckx>Then guix gc, but don't expect huge savings.
<nckx>But as you've already removed ~/.config/guix/current, these left-overs can't ‘do’ anything, so they are harmless.
<koszko>thanks, it's more clear to me now (also, it was my mistake in the first place since I missed some of the information on the 'guix pull' doc page)
<nckx>I don't blame you. It's an unexpected shift coming from most package managers (sudo apt), and whilst our docs aren't shabby there's always room for improvement.
<Guest11>gcc-cross-sans-lib seems to be failing to build. cuirass reports that a "version 1.4" built fine. how can i build that "version 1.4" on my local guix?
<tbss[m]1><littlebobeep> "tbss: Wifi/BT no work, also some..." <- Its better chose purism or have other computers?
<tbss[m]1>My requeriment is the support distro,not spoke about bios
<pashencija[m]><nckx> "pashencija: So are we all when..." <- > probably a network error
<pashencija[m]>Thank you! I tried again and it worked
<koszko>tbss[m]1: Are you looking to purchase a GNU/Linux *laptop*?
<lembrun[m]>Can't make sway + xdg portal works for screenshots (flameshot) : (
<pashencija[m]>I run... (full message at
<pashencija[m]>I took the command from
<pashencija[m]>I stripped `--system=armhf-linux` because it goes cross-compiling otherwise
<patched[m]>Is it possible when installing a package to pick the newest version with a substitution available?
<pashencija[m]>> <> I run... (full message at
<pashencija[m]> * I will try `guix system image guix/gnu/system/images/pinebook-pro.scm --skip-checks --verbosity=3`
<pashencija[m]>It worked on my x86 machine
<nckx>> I stripped `--system=armhf-linux`
<nckx>I mean, there's your problem, put it back. (?)
<nckx>--system doesn't cross-compile, --target does, but why would you be against cross-compiling in the first place?
<ennoausberlin>Hello. Today I introduced guix to my colleagues at my workplace. Most of my own projects are already managed by guix. We usually ship docker containers. So I mentioned the guix pack command and emphasized the reproducibility using guix. It was common reasoning (of my co-workers) to avoid the additional guix steps, because the result is already a
<ennoausberlin>docker container and the images are stored for a long time, so it is kind of reproducible already.  I could not argue against it during my presentation. Any thoughts on that?
<nckx>How is it reproducible, i.e., how would I reproduce your Docker container (or you reproduce a 5-year-old one)?
<nckx>Asking mainly to learn about Docker TBH :)
<rekado>ennoausberlin: that’s like saying you don’t need to keep source code, because you compiled a binary and copied that to a floppy disk.
<rekado>the Docker thing is an opaque binary blob, an output of a process. The process itself should be repeatable.
<nckx>Maybe they don't know what ‘reproduce’ means? Is there a misleading German translation?
<bourfronti>hello guix. is anybody here running emacs through guix home? when i run it as a shepherd service i cannot use browse-url (sway), but it works if i run it through a terminal as emacs --fg-daemon. what could be causing this?
<rekado>it’s like knowing that the answer is 42 without having the question and the steps that were taken to arrive at the answer.
<nckx>rekado: So there's nothing like, er, ‘docker --extract-manifest < i-dont-know-anything-about.docker | docker --create > new.docker’?
<nckx>The reproducibility tool is cat?
<rekado>no, people usually store a Dockerfile, which is roughly equivalent to a shell script that is run when building the Docker image.
<rekado>the Dockerfile states what other image to use as the base image, and then there are a bunch of “apt install foo”, “curl | bash”, etc lines to modify that initial state
<rekado>the Dockerfile can be under version control, but the internet is not under vnersion control
<rekado>so all of that volatile state of the apt repos, myspace, etc, is not captured by the Dockerfile
<rekado>you’re expected to either ignore this or have managed proxies for everything
<rekado>but most people don’t expect the pipeline from Dockerfile to Docker image to behave reproducibly in the first place
<rekado>it’s just supposed to produce some archive that is probably all right
<ennoausberlin>rekado We do not ship that often and I'd like to be reproducible. But common opinion here is, that we don't need to be reproducible, because we store every shipped container. I don't like to waste that much space, but they do not care. Storage is cheap was the answer.
<rekado>and people keep around previous images for some form of roll-back.
<rekado>ennoausberlin: personally, I would drop it if I was in an environment where people didn’t care about source to binary transparency.
<rekado>chances are that it really does not matter to them
<rekado>source to binary transparency is nice in theory, because it lets *you* decide how you want to disturb the output (e.g. by changing some inputs in a certain way)
<rekado>for science this kind of functional mapping from input to output does make a difference as it unlocks the ability to understand *why* the binary blob looks and behaves a certain way
<rekado>others might simply not want to know anything about this; building container images would be done automatically on every push, for example, so using Docker is a matter of simplifying the deployment pipeline
<furrymcgee>some licenses requires you to provide sources
<rekado>especially when using a cloud platform that is built around Docker and can automatically fetch from a Docker registry there may simply be no utility in reproducibility — the main feature is deployment convenience and leveraging exist infrastructure for automation.
<koszko>furrymcgee: true, I believe many people using docker (and other popular technologies...) are silently violating some licenses
<nckx>I'm trying to square rekado's description (which I have no reason to disbelieve) with, e.g.,
<nckx>I know, poop on my head for even reading marketing text, but that's where I am.
<furrymcgee>see this howto build images with docker
<nckx>Ah, the supply chain is a chain of signed blobs with which you are supplied. These blobs be *fresh*.
<koszko>furrymcgee: btw, I'm wondering how to properly utilize this 'guix system' functionality you mentioned. 'guix system docker-image' seems to reject any operating system definition with no 'bootloader' defined
<koszko>but bootloader seems useless for docker systems. Perhaps we should be using 'guix pack' for building docker images?
<ennoausberlin>rekado I was not in for a change of our deployment process. I like the guix way to build software and wanted to introduce it to others. I could not create an enthusiastic response, though :)
<rekado>nckx: yes, it’s just signatures (which are optional and not all widely used).
<rekado>ennoausberlin: I empathize. Even in an environment that is primed for reproducibility concerns the most common response I heard is along the lines of “you ain’t gonna need it”.
<nckx>koszko: The boot loader is simply ignored. Set it to whatever (see gnu/system/examples/docker-image.tmpl). ‘guix pack’ and ‘system’ docker images serve different purposes, the latter is a full-blown half-OS (shepherd, services, …).
<koszko>nckx: oh, thanks for making it clear :)
<nckx>Should it be mandatory in all types? No, but that'll probably complicate the code (I didn't check).
<nckx>Setting it to an image-specific default (null-boot-loader?) might make more sense.
<nckx>(Some might say that's too magical, but ‘you give me a value that we both know is bogus and I'll just ignore it’ is at least as magical IMO.)
<pashencija[m]><nckx> "I mean, there's your problem..." <- It downloads cross compiler and fails then
<pashencija[m]><nckx> "--system doesn't cross-compile,..." <- Because I'm on aarch64 and I build aarch64 image
<nckx>And morally opposed against cross-compilation? I don't get it. But it shouldn't fail, of course, that's a bug. What exactly ‘fails’ here?
<nckx>I'm confused by ‘I build aarch64’, earlier you mentioned armhf.
<nckx>These TLS handshake errors are becoming intolerable.
<nckx>MysteriousSilver: Hi! So I'm back. Are you still interested in a guix/user cloak or happy with your generic brand one?
<nckx>pashencija[m]: To be clear, I don't have a Pinebook, so I take everything you tell me extremely literally.
<pashencija[m]><nckx> "And morally opposed against..." <- > And morally opposed against cross-compilation?
<pashencija[m]>Of course not. It's just not nessesary
<MysteriousSilver>nckx: anything's fine :)
<pashencija[m]><nckx> "I'm confused by ‘I build aarch64..." <- Did I? All my machines (raspberry, macbook and pinebook pro are aarch64
<pashencija[m]>* pinebook pro) are
<MysteriousSilver>welcome back
<nckx>Same to you.
<nckx>pashencija[m]: OK, thanks. You said you ‘stripped `--system=armhf-linux’ earlier so that's what I added back to test here, and it seemed to run (although I didn't run it to completion).
<pashencija[m]>I try `guix system image guix/gnu/system/images/pinebook-pro.scm --skip-checks` now
<pashencija[m]>Unlike the command in docs, it worked for me on x86
<pashencija[m]>So perhaps it will work now as well
<pashencija[m]>I'll come back to discuss that once I finish trying it
<nckx>Cross-compilation on M1s might not be necessary, but it doesn't hurt (apart from a bit of storage used) and we'd have to maintain two separate code paths otherwise, IIUC all this byzantine image stuff.
<pashencija[m]>nckx: Oh, I stripped it from the docs. Docs describe armhf board. Check the link
<nckx>I trust you more than I trust my reading of docs which may or may not apply to your hardware.
<pashencija[m]>nckx: It does hurt. That was already discussed here before. GUIX fails to prepare cross-compiler on aarch64
<nckx>Hence my asking for how it fails.
<nckx>‘It fails’ isn't very actionable.
<pashencija[m]>Ok, I will provide more details as soon as I finish my attempt with `guix system image guix/gnu/system/images/pinebook-pro.scm --skip-checks`
<nckx>Anyway, I'll wait for that and wish you more success.
<zeta_reticuli>nckx: maybe you know. I downloaded icecat from gnu's mirror, extract this and can't execute (Failed to exectue file "icecat"). This doesn't work in terminal too. How fix it?
<pashencija[m]>pashencija[m]: I am confused to see that builds qt-base and inkscape
<pashencija[m]>Might take a while
*GNUtoo also has issues on ARM on 1 device, though I've no idea where it could come from (
<GNUtoo>Basically for some reasons guix pull always fails but it fails after trying to build stuff and so on, and it fails with a lisp error trace
<GNUtoo>Is 2.2 GiB of free space on / enough for doing a guix pull the first time?
<GNUtoo>(building is done on /gnu/tmp for me and here there is plenty of space)
<pashencija[m]>GNUtoo: No
<GNUtoo>ahh ok
<pashencija[m]>Also, I have no 32-bit device to test or debug
<pashencija[m]>And I don't think it's rational to support these as they are extremely out of date
<GNUtoo>A lot of devices would go to trash and there is a climate crisis
<pashencija[m]>They can have replicant :)
<GNUtoo>Replicant also relies on other distributions in practice
<nckx>zeta_reticuli: You downloaded a generic ‘for GNU/Linux’ binary? Those won't run easily on Guix Systems, because they hard-code file names like /lib/ which Guix lacks. I strongly recommend guix installing icecat. There should be substitutes (=binaries) from Guix.
<pashencija[m]>I mean GUIX is not really helpful on low-end arm devices with <2gb of ram
<GNUtoo>Here I was talking about / not the RAM
<GNUtoo>And the issue is that Parabola has a broken valgrind for instance so I fixed valgrind in Guix because that was easier to do
<pashencija[m]>I got you
<pashencija[m]>/ should be as big as possible
<pashencija[m]>and /tmp as well
<GNUtoo>ok, /tmp is /gnu/tmp in my case
<nckx>If Guix matures a bit more in the area its value in supporting old (esp. ARM) devices will probably lie in easy and reproducible image creation on your workstation, not in self-hosting on the old device.
<GNUtoo>I probably need to switch to LVM or something like that then
<pashencija[m]>Is /gnu/tmp mounted as tmpfs on /dev/shm?
<pashencija[m]>You should remount it in case it is
<GNUtoo>Here I'm just using Guix on top of Parabola
<nckx>MysteriousSilver: Done.
<GNUtoo>/gnu/tmp is not RAM, it's backed by a separate partition
<GNUtoo>to do that I modified guix-daemon.service
<nckx>Sorry for the insane delay. 🤡
<GNUtoo>Environment='GUIX_LOCPATH=/var/guix/profiles/per-user/root/guix-profile/lib/locale' LC_ALL=en_US.utf8 TMPDIR=/gnu/tmp
<pashencija[m]>nckx: In fact, guix is buildable with cross-compiler much better than on a self-hosted device
<pashencija[m]>I mean I can build guix for raspberry or pinebook on x86 server
<pashencija[m]>But I cannot do that on any of my local aarch64 devices
<nckx>Yeah, I think that's the more realistic way forward, realistically.
<GNUtoo>pashencija[m]: there is some limits to that, a lot of build systems don't cross compile at all
<nckx>Well, that's just a bug that needs to be fixed, not a hard limitation.
<pashencija[m]>GNUtoo: Good
*nckx 's reply applied to both.
<GNUtoo>though building hello, gdb, valgrind do cross compile fine
<nckx>More & more stuff xcc's on each release.
<pashencija[m]>It builds qtbase now. How long might it take?
<tbss[m]1><koszko> "tbss: Are you looking to..." <- Yes,laptop with gnu support
<nckx>zeta_reticuli: There's definitely a substitute for icecat on current Guix master, so if you don't get one let's debug that, rather than having to tell you what ‘patchelf’ is 😉
*nckx AFK a while.
<GNUtoo>In my case I'm using Guix to run automatic tests on a library I'm working on, that library interacts with the modem, and so it would be nice if I could run everything on the device with the modem instead of splitting the tests on several devices
<pashencija[m]>I think it's a good start
<GNUtoo>Else I could still test on my laptop first and then on device but I'd need to remove guix and use guix pack instead
<GNUtoo>(-RR don't support cross compilation)
<GNUtoo>Though I'll try to find a way to get some more space on / but that'd be complicated
<pashencija[m]>I think it would be nice to have a separate guix-non-x86 channel so we have fun discussing and fixing things in our own club
<GNUtoo>As for the 2GiB of RAM I've indeed an armv7 device with 2GiB of RAM where Guix worked fine
<GNUtoo>It also had more space
<GNUtoo>What about i686?
<GNUtoo>Some issues are common between ARM and i686 sometimes like with rust
<tbss[m]1><pashencija[m]> "I think it's a good start" <- The bio can have intel me or psp
<tbss[m]1>* The bio can have intel me or amd psp
<tbss[m]1>Its tha systemd libre
<tbss[m]1>Not speaking about bios
<tbss[m]1>Bios not is important for installer distros gnu
<pashencija[m]>Well, GNU recommends that list here
<pashencija[m]>Our Respects Your Freedom (RYF) certified products page lists products certified by the FSF to do as much as possible to respect your freedom and your privacy, and ensure that you have control over your device. You can find a list of motherboards that use 100% free boot firmware, with no blobs, here. For those that require nonfree microcode blobs, see
<GNUtoo>About RYF so far the ME firmware has been completely removed
<GNUtoo>There is usually a ROM that is supposed to load that firmware that remains, but the same is true for most ARM devices where there is a bootrom too.
<tbss[m]1>Purism and coreboot its good for now
<pashencija[m]>Pinebook Pro can be libre if you disable wifi & BT
<GNUtoo>And AFAIK there is no PSP yet either
<pashencija[m]>You can use usb dongle, for example
<pashencija[m]>pashencija[m]: You can disable them with hardware switch
<GNUtoo>As for Purism they have lot of nonfree software (Intel FSP, part of the ME firmware), but it's still better than off the shelf latops where you can't even choose the way they boot (you can't recompile the UEFI and choose to add grub inside the flash for instance).
<tbss[m]1>pashencija[m]: Yes,this is the problem
<tbss[m]1>Bios its a option,but the distros is other situation
<GNUtoo>As for ARM devices, on many of them you can boot with free software and so on but often some stuff doesn't work + it's not a drop-in replacement for the RYF thinkpads
<pashencija[m]>Those who need to debug their software on arm64 - feel free to pm me
<pashencija[m]>I think I can organize reverse ssh to a virtual machine or something
<GNUtoo>As for other non-RYF Libreboot devices, some might work too but we have no AMD nor Nvidia GPU that (still) work with fully free software
<GNUtoo>I think the lemote GPU did long time ago but everybody switched to radeon instead of radeonhd
<tbss[m]1>GNUtoo: Amd have psp
<tbss[m]1>Inten me similar
<GNUtoo>For recent AMD yes
<tbss[m]1>Nvidia not see
<GNUtoo>Basically for Nvidia and AMD/ATI GPUs there are at least 2 nonfree software: (1) the video BIOS / GOP driver that the BIOS / uefi runs, SeaBIOS will also run that
<GNUtoo>(2) That video BIOS also has some bytecode that the radeon and nouveau drivers run to intialize the GPU
<GNUtoo>So the only way you can display something on the screen is through some nonfree software
*civodul posts Shepherd patches for improved IPv6 + inetd support:
<tbss[m]1>The purism support is good?
<GNUtoo>What does 'support' means here? like does it works well with Guix?
<pashencija[m]>I confirm aarch64 guix is now self-reproducable
<pashencija[m]>I successfully generated an image with `guix system image guix/gnu/system/images/pinebook-pro.scm --skip-checks`
<pashencija[m]>Now let's talk about the command in docs
<pashencija[m]>How should I run it to generate pinebook pro image on aarch64 host?
<pashencija[m]> * I successfully generated an image with `guix system image guix/gnu/system/images/pinebook-pro.scm --skip-checks`
<pashencija[m]>Now let's talk about the command in docs
<pashencija[m]>How should I run it to generate pinebook pro image on aarch64 host? Please, tell me the correct command and I will provide output
<pashencija[m]> * I successfully generated an image with `guix system image guix/gnu/system/images/pinebook-pro.scm --skip-checks`
<pashencija[m]>Now let's talk about the command in docs
<pashencija[m]>How should I run it to generate pinebook pro image on aarch64 host? Please, tell me the correct command and I will provide output. I could not get any good out of it
<pashencija[m]> * I successfully generated an image with `guix system image guix/gnu/system/images/pinebook-pro.scm --skip-checks`
<pashencija[m]>Now let's talk about the command in docs
<pashencija[m]>How should I run it to generate pinebook pro image on aarch64 host? Please, tell me the correct command and I will provide output. I could not get any good out of it myself
<GNUtoo>I'm not sure about 'guix system image guix/gnu/system/images/pinebook-pro.scm [...]'
<koszko><pashencija[m]> "Pinebook Pro can be libre if you disable wifi & BT" - how about its keyboard and touchpad controllers? They are not free software
<GNUtoo>should it be 'guix system image -t pinebook-pro-raw guix/gnu/system/images/pinebook-pro.scm --skip-checks' instead?
<pashencija[m]>koszko: Really? I thought I have seen the source code on github
*GNUtoo started documenting all that on the Libreplanet wiki
<pashencija[m]>GNUtoo: Nonono
<pashencija[m]>`guix system image guix/gnu/system/images/pinebook-pro.scm --skip-checks` works fine. I have just tested it
<pashencija[m]>`guix system image --system=aarch64-linux -e '((@ (gnu system install) os-with-u-boot) (@ (gnu system install) installation-os) "pinebook-pro")'`
<pashencija[m]>Does not work
<koszko>"The Pinebook Pro's (PBP) keyboard firmware source isn't available"
<koszko>They just provide binaries in git. Well, the keyboard firmware is hackable at least. As to touchpad fw, I'm not even sure what architecture it runs on
<GNUtoo>what's in src? is it very partial code ?
<pashencija[m]>nckx: can you please comment on my question about build commands and docs?
<pashencija[m]>koszko: However, there are modified touchpad firmwares here and there
<GNUtoo>At least binaries releases like that without much context doesn't make it easy to understand licenses and provenance of the code
<pashencija[m]>Ok. I didn't investigate much
<GNUtoo>The Novena is probably easier to work with but they are hard to find and you need to customize the hardware to get something familiar with a keyboard and so on
<pashencija[m]>Let's discuss ARM image generation :)
<pashencija[m]>It's still much better than raspberry XD
<GNUtoo>(for now until I said "unknown" for if we have source or not of theses firmwares on the Libreplanet page)
<koszko>pashencija[m] "However, there are modified touchpad firmwares here and there": I didn't know about those. That would mean there is a chance of REing it
<pashencija[m]>Frankly speaking, I'm not much into freedom and libre hardware
<pashencija[m]>I just need guix running on all my devices XD
<apteryx>is it me or fill-column doesn't work with paredit in Emacs 28.1? I have it set to 78 (per the Guix checkout .dir-locals.el file) yet my 'paredit-reindent-defun' (bound to M-q), doesn't honor it
<GNUtoo> is GPLv2+ at least
<pashencija[m]>I wait for nckx :)
<GNUtoo>Though I'd need a reference manual of the microcontroller to undertand what the code does so it's unclear to me if it's the firmware code or not
<pashencija[m]>Is it polite/okay here to pm people without asking here first?
<pashencija[m]> * Is it polite/okay here to pm people without asking on the channel first?
<GNUtoo>Many people don't like PM without good reasons
<pashencija[m]>Ok. I'll wait for nckx here
<apteryx>pashencija[m]: no, it's not :-)
<GNUtoo>So a way would just be to ask to the person
<pashencija[m]>Ok, I won't
<pashencija[m]>However, I explicitly grant everyone here permission to write me here/on telegram/on email/wherever else they like
<jackhill>hi Guix!
<ss2>Does git-fetch support pulling from other branches?
<apteryx>seems emacs 28.1 has adopted smooth (damped) scrolling by default
*apteryx tries to find how to disable that
<ss2>apteryx: you might find a hint in the anti news of Emacs. Or the changelog in general.
<apteryx>ah "Mouse wheel scrolling now defaults to one line at a time."
<apteryx>setting `mouse-wheel-scroll-amount' seems to make the behavior about what it used to be (much faster scrolling)
<apteryx>setting it to 5 instead of the now default 1 *
<apteryx>also set mouse-scroll-delay to 0 instead of 0.25
<ss2>Interesting, I've never noticed this delay before. Though I do see it now comparing it with another application.
<unmatched-paren>ok, i think i've narrowed down my wifi issue
<unmatched-paren>dmesg says [ 13.181215] platform regulatory.0: Direct firmware load for regulatory.db failed with error -2
<unmatched-paren>according to le internetz, regulatory.db is a wireless thing
<unmatched-paren>no idea why it would produce that and fail to load... whatever firmware is failing
<unmatched-paren>that's what i get for using modern hardware i guess -.o.-
<unmatched-paren>hmm, interesting, this old debian report
<unmatched-paren>the same error, probably different cause tho
<nckx>But merely failing to load the regdb shouldn't™ break your wifi though?
<unmatched-paren>hmm... ok :(
<nckx>pashencija[m]: I was away (AFK = away from keyboard).
<nckx>I can't say it's impossible, unmatched-paren, just that it… shouldn't.
<nckx>pashencija[m]: By the way, your first link was correct, adding the backstroke actually broke it:
<unmatched-paren>it's not: (1) the usb port (it recognises a flash drive plugged in) (2) the network in general (ethernet works) so that only leaves either (3) the dongle is broken, (4) something something drivers, or (5) the laptop is somehow broken itself (i really hope not :P)
<nckx>Nah, (5) is unlikely.
<nckx>I didn't read any backlog before ‘ok, I think I've narrowed down…’ though, and don't have time to now.
<unmatched-paren>ok :)
*unmatched-paren going to see if the dongle is recognised on another laptop (this one running Fedora)
<pashencija[m]>nckx: Again. How should I use the command in doc to generate PBP image?
<nckx>Yeah, your problem was that you weren't insistent enough.
<nckx>‘Again’? No thanks.
<pashencija[m]>I don't really understand it :(
<nckx>You've asked me often enough by now, but as I've already told you I don't even have a Pinebook. I don't have an ‘aarch64 host’. I barely started ‘guix system image guix/gnu/system/images/pinebook-pro.scm’ (on x86_64 by the way) to see if it looks bogus or not.
<nckx>That x86_64 is not *that* fast :)
<nckx>Also, manually downclocked because summer 👍 sigh. It's building the arm64-generic kernel now.
<nckx>Someone like vagrantc might know off the top of their head what the ‘right’ way to generate the image is. Alas, they aren't here.
<nckx>pashencija[m]: ‘guix system image gnu/system/images/pinebook-pro.scm’ is absolutely the way to go. The (@ …) command looks wrong to me just based on the fact that you're building for armhf, not aarch64, and I don't see any "pinebook-pro" in gnu/packages/bootloaders.scm.
<nckx>But the whole point of pinebook-pro.scm is to wrap that all away, so you don't need to know all the right values for a long command line.
<nckx>I've got to go again, ret later.
<pashencija[m]>nckx: I am building for aarch64!
<nckx>Smell ya later.
<pashencija[m]>nckx: Ok. So should we update the documentation?)
<pashencija[m]>nckx: Fine
<pashencija[m]>Just to sum up.
<pashencija[m]>`guix system image guix/gnu/system/images/pinebook-pro.scm’ works on both x86 and aarch64 correctly. The command line in docs requires investigations.
<pashencija[m]>I think it would be good to add that command to
<pashencija[m]>s///, s/html_node/html\_node/
<pashencija[m]> * Just to sum up.... (full message at
<pashencija[m]> * Just to sum up.... (full message at
<pashencija[m]> * Just to sum up.... (full message at
<pashencija[m]> * Just to sum up.... (full message at
<pashencija[m]> * Just to sum up.... (full message at
<pashencija[m]> * Just to sum up.... (full message at
<pashencija[m]> * Just to sum up.... (full message at
<pashencija[m]> * Just to sum up.... (full message at
<unmatched-paren>seems like the matrix bridge just hiccuped :)
<pashencija[m]>unmatched-paren: What do you mean?)
<unmatched-paren>pashencija[m]: there's tons of the same message from you
<unmatched-paren>see the bottom of
<pashencija[m]>Oh I'm sorry
<pashencija[m]>Perhaps it was me editing the message that caused that
<unmatched-paren>ah, probably
<unmatched-paren>irc doesn't support editing messages
<unmatched-paren>so i guess it just resends it :)
<pashencija[m]>It had stupid typos..
<apteryx>pashencija[m]: you should abstain from using fancy matrix features on this channel, as it doesn't behaves well with IRC (such as the reply that copy pastes the whole thing again, or the edit that also does that)
*nckx ret.
<nckx>With ‘fancy’ being anything beyond typing a message and pressing ‘send’/return :)
<nckx>What really confuses me is: what bizarre Matrix misfeature makes it necessary to escape a *backstroke* of all characters? As you can see from the logs, on IRC it just shows up normally & breaks your link.
<nckx>pashencija[m]: Soo… I'm running ‘guix system image --system=aarch64-linux -e '((@ (gnu system install) os-with-u-boot) (@ (gnu system install) installation-os) "pinebook-pro-rk3399")'’ on a remote aarch64 machine now. It didn't immediately error out and is now deblobbing the kernel, which means it will take a while.
<nckx>Thanks for the SSH offer. The project does have a few aarch64 boxes hooked up to the build farm, they're just a bit of a pain to use.
*nckx groans as the build fails with a bogus error merely to prove that.
<unmatched-paren>nckx: backstroke as in `?
*unmatched-paren calls that a backslash -.o.-
<nckx>Backslash, apparently, but that reminds me of Slash, and I don't like to be reminded of Slash.
<patched[m]>Backstrokes are what you give somebody who feels down
<civodul>hmm tests/channels.scm fails for me ("error: gpg failed to sign the data" shows up in tests/channels.log)
<civodul>is anyone else seeing this?
<nckx>civodul: Yes.
<nckx>‘test-name: channel-news, one entry’ also fails before it.
<nckx>Then several such gpg failures follow.
<civodul>"gpg: skipped \"44D3 1E21 AF71 38F9 B632 280A 771F 49CB FAAE 072D\": Unusable secret key\n"
<nckx>I don't have that.
<nckx>Not in ~/guix anyway.
<nckx>I'm simply fed up with Guix at this point:
<nckx>Guix the command, that is.
<nckx>If you can't network to save your live (and it can't), don't insist on it.
<nckx>pashencija[m]: ☝ this is how we elitists edit messages on IRC. Look, and weep.
<unmatched-paren>no, nckx. sed is the way,
<nckx>Bit overkill? But yes, you are right, 1337 more elitism points for sed.
<nckx>I like making people work for their chats by writing 3 walls of text and then just
*nckx tries guix build --no-subs .drv directly…
<nckx>That seems to work.
<nckx>It seems the image API does not pass it on.
<nckx>That worked.
<cbaines>perform-action in the system script seems to take a use-substitutes? argument, but then doesn't do anything with it, which could be the rough area of the issue
<nckx>Wow, you are fast.
<nckx>Thanks cbaines.
<bjc>does anyone have a hint on how i might build a system image with a known path to init? i'd like to run guix in a systemd-nspawn container, faking a real install (so it'd start from a pid 1 shepherd), but that's tough to do if the path to init changes on system reconfigure
<unmatched-paren>bjc: there's probably some way to symlink the init binary to /sbin/init on reconfigure
<unmatched-paren>i know it's possible to e.g. symlink the gcc binary to /bin/cc
<bjc>unmatched-paren: i was hoping so, but i can't figure out how to do it
<civodul>cbaines: ouch, good catch
<civodul>nckx: i've reported the gpg-related test failures
<cbaines>well, it was nckx that figured it out :)
<civodul>heh, team work :-)
<bjc>maybe adding a custom activation step? but how do i get the path to the pid 1 shepherd + script in it?
*unmatched-paren is searching around in the manual, hold on bjc :)
<bjc>but i was kind of hoping this functionality already existed, or something close could be retro-fit
<unmatched-paren>it does, i'm fairly certain
<civodul>bjc: cat /proc/1/cmdline | xargs -0 :-)
<bjc>does that exist in a container?
<unmatched-paren>bjc: should get you started
<unmatched-paren>see the sentence "Using (guix monads) and (guix gexp), it may be rewritten as a monadic function:
<bjc>it does, but it points to the host's command line, so not useful unfortunately
<unmatched-paren>oh, wait
<bjc>unmatched-paren: what am i looking for here?
<unmatched-paren>you should be able to get the path of a package in the store _somehow_, then use (symlink)
<unmatched-paren>sorry i couldn't be more helpful :/
<bjc>civodul: sorry, misread and thought you said ‘/proc/cmdline’. but ‘/proc/1/cmdline’ won't work either, since i can't even get the container started without a path to init
<nckx>This might be distracted nckx confusing up the place again, but would special-files-service-type/extra-special-file be what's being hinted at here?
<nckx>Ignore if not.
<bjc>nckx: that would work if i new the target of the symlink
<bjc>in fact, it'd be ideal, since i could just make an /sbin/init, and pretty much everything would just work without further messing with things
<unmatched-paren>bjc: it's 100% possible to get a store path for some package p, but i'm not sure how
<bjc>hmm.. although now i think of it, doesn't pid 1 shepherd do some command line processing to get its script?
<unmatched-paren>s/i'm not sure how/i can't remember how/
<bjc>i can get a path to shepherd, i think, using file-append, but that's not going to give me what i need for init
<bjc>something's telling me i'm going to have to add a new target for system init, or at least images
<nckx>That sounds like the right way.
<nckx>Unlike, say, a /sbin/init shell script that looks for gnu.load= in the unused grub.cfg and runs that.
<nckx>That would be illegal.
<bjc>i'll take name recommendations for the image type. calling it "nspawn" seems overly-specific
<bjc>i was briefly considering just installing an efi bootloader and parsing out the necessary command line, then i chastised myself for being a filthy, filthy animal
<nckx>Yeah, it's more like… fhs-container? I can't think of a *good* name but agree that nspawn isn't NIH (good on them) and shouldn't be used as the name.
<nckx>It's actually more a (bootloader (init-bootloader)).
<nckx>Or am I being silly.
<bjc>i can see your perspective when i squint
<unmatched-paren>looks like the dongle might be broken
<bjc>i think it'd probably confuse more people than it'd help. but it does make a kind of sense
<unmatched-paren>when i plug it into another laptop and type `lsusb` it doesn't come up
<unmatched-paren>same on this one
<bjc>that does sound broken
*unmatched-paren wonders if they should ask for a refund or just buy a new one
<bjc>i doubt it'd help, but the kernel will spit out logs when devices are plugged in and may give a hint as to why it didn't enumerate
<unmatched-paren>nothing in dmesg about it
<unmatched-paren>at all
<bjc>sounds like a hardware failure, then. does it have a power light or anything?
<unmatched-paren>as far as i can see
<unmatched-paren>anyone know anywhere else i can get an ath9k wifi dongle? i have to say, i wasn't too impressed by the thinkpenguin one in the first place, and now it's broken :P
<unmatched-paren>i could buy a full card i guess, but i'd have to do soldering etc
<nckx>bjc: Hmkay, so what's the ‘image’/archive/… format of such a system? .tgz? squashfs?
<nckx>unmatched-paren: I'd return it?
<bjc>nckx: it's just a directory. systemd-nspawn is basically a very enhanced chroot
<bjc>if you're familiar with freebsd jails, it's similar to that
<nckx>I am.
<nckx>I more meant ‘how is it an image format rather than a bootloader’.
<nckx>There's a standard entry point that needs to encode /gnu/store/…system/boot, just like grub.cfg, which it replaces…
<bjc>yeah, i see your point. and it'd mean i could just use existing ‘guix system init’ just with a different bootloader section
<nckx>OTOH (I'm just thinking out loud here) maybe someone has a use case for a GRUB-bootable disc image that is also nspawnable… Although it's not like you can combine image types either, while some day (bootloaders (list grub-bootloader grub-efi-bootloader)) could actually be made possible…
<nckx>So you could write (bootloaders (list grub-efi-bootloader init-bootloader)). But getting ahead of myself here.
<bjc>yeah, they wouldn't conflict
<bjc>i'll give this a whirl as a bootloader and see how it goes
<nckx>bjc: Yeah, sure, or (user-space-bootloader (user-space-bootloader-configuration (entry-point "/sbin/init") (…))) but I have no interest in bikeshedding the name, don't worry.
<nckx>It is Guix so longer names give you more guixpoints.
<bjc>i get a microdose of seratonin every time i hit the ‘-’ key
<nckx>Basically, if vi users enjoy using your API, you've failed.
<bjc>the name can always be changed later fairly easily, so i'm not too stressed about it
*cedb walks in
<cedb>nckx: im sorry what?
*nckx desperately tries to exit.
<unmatched-paren>nckx: it's not guixpoints, it's guixcoins, remember?
<unmatched-paren>GuixCoins(R): Free with Every Build!(C)
<nckx>Guixcoins are the Terra, Guixpoints are Luna.
<cedb>a guix user making a :q! joke?
<nckx>Because both are free.
<cedb>now im all for abolishing gatekeeping but
*unmatched-paren is a naughty nvim user O_O
<cedb>lua > elisp
<nckx>Explains the nick.
<cedb>if you really want lisp you can always use fennel in your nvim lua config
<nckx>cedb: I mean, I'm not going to die on the elisp hill, you can have it.
<cedb>hmmm never thought of that one
<unmatched-paren>cedb: don't be surprised if bearded people with pitchforks and banners with epsilon signs on them show up at your house
*cedb plants his flag proudly over the hill
*unmatched-paren uses fennel in their nvim configuration, so they are saved from the pitchforks
<nckx>Oh interesting.
<cedb>unmatched-paren: epsilon? so like overly enthusiastic math major sophomores?
<unmatched-paren>cedb: isn't the emacs logo an epsilon
<unmatched-paren>the small one, at least
<unmatched-paren>the big one's a gnu
<unmatched-paren>the logo at the top
<cedb>looks more like a xi to me
*unmatched-paren migt have their greek letters mixed up -.o.-
<nckx>I always thought it was a xi, but mainly a try-hard ‘gnu’.
<unmatched-paren>ah yes, epsilon looks kind of similar
<unmatched-paren>i always thought it was an epsilon -.o.-
<nckx>What I've never asked: is there some meaning behind the xi?
<unmatched-paren>well then, s/epsilon signs/xi signs/
<nckx>Is emacs pro-Xi?
<bjc>the image is derived from a line art representation of the head of a gnu, on its side to look like an ‘E’
<bjc>it's in good company, the letter alpha comes from the auroch head on its side
<unmatched-paren>the reason i thought epsilon was because epsilon starts with E and the capital epsilon is indistinguishable from a capital E
*nckx is unsatisfied. ‘It's 2 things it doesn't really resemble much, not the thing it clearly turned out being.’
<unmatched-paren>so it would make sense -.o.-
<nckx>unmatched-paren: That would be a very GNU-ish joke. ‘E is not E’.
<davidl>nckx: hi, u reviewed an old patch of mine a long time ago: - #51512 - Im wondering what else u think I should work on to have this package accepted?
<davidl>like if there are 1, 2, and 3 that if fulfilled it can be accepted.
<bjc>this project needs more committers. i volunteer maximed
<nckx>davidl: It's still in my local git checkout and I see it ever time I push and think ‘oh geez I really need to get that done’. And now I really have no choice.
<davidl>ncks: haha ok :) let me know of any updates and if I can do more to make it easier :)
<davidl>nckx: ^
<nckx>bjc: maximed does more than their share already, I just need to compare my local changes (if any) with davidl's original first.
<nckx>davidl: Nah, you've made it nothing but, it's all on me.
<bjc>nckx: i know. i wasn't serious, just expressing my appreciation =)
<jpoiret>damn, i was on holidays for a few days and i missed the staging freeze
<jpoiret>crisis averted, a python patch would belong on core-updates anyways
<zacchae[m]>So, the result of guix system image and guix system vm are both useable by qemu. What is the benefit of one over the other?
<zacchae[m]>For context, my work is making me use a winblows computer, so I plan on full-screening guix in qemu until I can demand to use my own hardware.
<unmatched-paren>zacchae[m]: i think `guix system vm` builds a slightly different guix image
<unmatched-paren>the `system vm` one shares the store with the host
<unmatched-paren>according to `guix system --help`
<unmatched-paren>whereas the `system image` one is a regular standalone vm image
<zacchae[m]>My assumption is that a vm is somehow better for hardware acceleration, but that probably doesn't apply on a cursed/non-free system?
<unmatched-paren>so i suppose on windows (sorry, i haven't thought of a dee
<unmatched-paren>so i suppose on windows (i haven't thought of a nickname funny enough :P i have one for macOS though: smackOS) you'd want to use the `image` one
<unmatched-paren>because windows does not have a store to share...
<zacchae[m]>Thanks, that is very helpful
<unmatched-paren>(to me "WinBlows" and "LoseDows" [especially that one] aren't particularly funny)
<zacchae[m]>oh lol I actually kinda like LoseDows
<unmatched-paren>idk, it just sounds to me like how a five-year-old would insult something "hahaaaha, LOSEdows!!!111!!1"
<unmatched-paren>(I am 100% for making fun of proprietary software, for the record, but not like that :P)
<zacchae[m]>I like the 5-year-old asthetic, because it means I can use it in a more casual context. At the end of the day, "mean names" are just that. If I really want to let others know that windows is bad, I would do it in a serious conversation without pejorative language and mean nicknames.
<zacchae[m]>"winblows" is just bait for people to ask "but what's wrong with windows?"
<unmatched-paren>i suppose so :)
<unmatched-paren>(I still am quite proud of smackOS :) i wonder if it's been done before...)
<unmatched-paren>although tbh with all the annoying ads and stuff they've been adding, i'd guess that many casual users now intensely dislike it too
<unmatched-paren>just they don't know the alternatives, or they have hardware problems with them...
<unmatched-paren>funny story, the ads were actually the reason i switched in the first place
<unmatched-paren>I got so angry with the ads and how much they were trying to control my usage of the computer, and then i remembered that there was this thing called Linux i'd heard of
<zacchae[m]>Mac has ads as well? I remember seeing ads on windows right after I switched to linux. Figured mac wouldn't be dumb enough to do that too...
<unmatched-paren>no, it was windows i was using
<unmatched-paren>sorry, it wasn't that clear
***mark_ is now known as mjw
<civodul> <- great interview of janneke!
<unmatched-paren> │20:53 civodul│ bricewge
<unmatched-paren> │20:53 civodul│ bricewge
<unmatched-paren>i clicked it and it pasted
<unmatched-paren>(what is it with me and copy-paste?!)
<zacchae[m]>Hopefully last guix system image question: On boot, I get past grub, but then i get "scanning for btrfs filesystem" followed by about 20 "waiting for partition 'django' to appear..." lines followed by a guile prompt. My qemu command is identical (minus -enable-kvm) to the one at with "myhd" replaced with "django".
<zacchae[m]>My config never mentions a partition by name, so I suspicious that the problem is that btrfs is just not supported for guix system image
<meena>does user-mode guix have a standard way of starting services? or does it integrate with systemd, or whatever the system has?
<zacchae[m]>guix uses the shepherd init system, not systemd
<meena>i know. i meant if you just use guix as package manager
<zacchae[m]>guix home is the "correct" way to create services as a user
<zacchae[m]>ah. I think the answer is the same. Though someone should confirm if guix on foreign distro has full guix home capabilities
<zacchae[m]>guix home creates a seperate shepherd system (prety much identical to shepherd inits system, but not PID 1) which is useable by the user
<zacchae[m]>so basically, you would define the service you want in a guix home config, and do a "guix home reconfigure /path/to/home-config.scm"
<zacchae[m]>also, guix system image update: changing btrfs to ext4 seems to have done the trick
<ss2>oh dear..
<sneek>yewscion: Greetings!
<yewscion>sneek: botsnack.
<vagrantc>with more bots were like sneek and not spambots
***ChanServ sets mode: +o nckx
***ChanServ sets mode: +o litharge
***litharge sets mode: +b *!*@2001:470:69fc:105::2:1269
***ChanServ sets mode: -o nckx
<nckx>Not that it helps.
***litharge sets mode: -o litharge
<nckx>But it's a soothing ritual.
<vagrantc>nckx: thanks!
<nckx>Matrix knows, it's the same fixed string every day, I can only conclude they can't be bothered.
<littlebobeep>I am curious why no ungoogled chromium shows up
<nckx>Because none satisfy ‘Output consistency: Matching’. Possibly because there is no output.
<littlebobeep>nckx: what does it mean there is no output
<nckx>I'm no expert on the GDS but that does seem to be the case.
<nckx>littlebobeep: I see ‘Scheduled, Failed, Started, Failed’ respectively.
<nckx>For the two derivations listed here: