<kitty2>Its been a while since I've reconfigured my home , and now when I try it keeps giving me "guix home: error: rmdir: No such file or directory" (While it cleaning up symlinks from a previous generation) ; when yall are done helping this person out anyone have any clue what I would even begin to do? lmao
<zamfofex>Seems similar to the issue bjc was having.
<alextee>ice-9/eval.scm:293:34: In procedure abi-check: #<record-type <origin>>: record ABI mismatch; recompilation needed
<luchadoritos>Hello all! Whenever I run Guix home reconfigure I get an error, "guix home: error: rmdir: no such file or directory" right after it says "Cleaning up symlinks from previous home at /gnu/store/...-home."
<zamfofex>luchadoritos: It seems other people were experiencing the same issue. They seem to think it is a bug.
<luchadoritos>zamfofex: Thank you for letting me know! I appreciate it! Sorry for asking about a known bug.
<zamfofex>It is fine! If no‐one asks about it, then it’s more difficult for it to be found, I think.
<luchadoritos>May I ask, where should I look for bugs in the future? Is it in the Guix mailing system? I'm more used to GitHub issues.
<luchadoritos>NVM I found the frontend at issues.guix and debbugs.gnu for Guix. Y'all have this figured out.
<piethesailor>I have a simple question.. I just got into guix and like it so far, but I am curious. I use EXWM as my window manager. I recently installed emacs 28 through "guix install emacs-next". When I log into exwm, "M-x emacs-version" returns 27.2. Havent come across a solution yet and thought I's throw my question here?
<alextee>I was trying to update the zrythm package but I'm stuck at an error related to including (gnu packages debug). so I just sent 5 patches to update other packages for now, will continue another time
<vagrantc>i mean, yeah, as a one-off, i could add that, but how would be the right way to do that in the package itself?
<vagrantc>more specifically, updating libxmlb to the current version, which ships a binary in libexec that diffoscope can use...
<vagrantc>i guess, diffoscope has a bunch of embedded references...
<zamfofex>Yes, I think you should refer to the executable by its full path in a different package definition.
<zamfofex>Otherwise you’d have to propagate the input so that it is accessible at runtime, and that’s not generally a good choice, I think.
<vagrantc>the vast majority of the file formats in diffoscope don't have hard-coded values ... and there are hundreds, largely because most of the features are not strictly dependencies, but opportunistically added support
<vagrantc>but so far all of the others are on PATH.
<zamfofex>If I have a program that raises SIGPIPE immediately then prints “hello”, when I execute it, it does not actuall get to the “hello”. When I use ‘guix shell’ (with or without any specified packages) then run it, it does print “hello”. Why is that?
<AIM[m]>I need gcc working for some uni works, so kindly help me
<zamfofex>(Also: For context, I’m trying to update m4, since the glibc update broke the current version. There is a single failing test, and it involves raising ‘SIGINT’ (which for some reason doesn’t end up exiting the process as expected). When I try it on the ‘/tmp’ directory left by ‘--keep-failed’, it works completely fine unless I use ‘guix shell’, in which case a different test that raises ‘SIGPIPE’ fails.)
<Aurora_v_kosmose>There's a bunch of portability reasons why. The info manual explains it.
<zamfofex>sneek: later tell civodul: It seems like m4 required an update for the newest glibc version (see commit 8e99f24c0931a38880c6ee9b8287c7da80b0036b in gnulib), but now there is an strangely failing test. See <https://logs.guix.gnu.org/guix/2022-04-09.log#081848> and the few messages I sent thereafter. I’m not sure what the issue is exactly. I should take a break from this for today, though!
<fiesh>ok,, so the bisection process that mbakke helped me with is finally complete. 400c9ed3d779308e56038305d40cd93acb496180 is the commit that breaks me being able to input the password for my luks encrypted home partition and instead prints "Nothing to read on input." repeatedly
<taiju>zamfofex: I myself prefer to use GNU/Linux in English, but many Japanese users prefer to use it in Japanese, and I would like to help them.
<zamfofex>civodul: I had trouble with glibc because I needed to update m4. TL;DR: The issue is a failing test in m4 which uses signals, but those seem to be a bit wonky in the Guix build environment. (I prepared a message with sneek with a bit more detail.) Ought I to just disable the tests for now?
<sneek>civodul, zamfofex says: It seems like m4 required an update for the newest glibc version (see commit 8e99f24c0931a38880c6ee9b8287c7da80b0036b in gnulib), but now there is an strangely failing test. See <https://logs.guix.gnu.org/guix/2022-04-09.log#081848> and the few messages I sent thereafter. I’m not sure what the issue is exactly. I should take a break from this for today, though!
<civodul>zamfofex: maybe we could apply that Gnulib patch if that's all it takes to have the test pass?
<zamfofex>taiju: If the issue is that Japanese characters don’t show well, you might be able to resolve it by installing a font that has them.
<zamfofex>civodul: What do you recon? It is really strange behavior regarding signals. Could it be worth reporting? Do you know what could be the cause? I disabled that specific test with a patch for now, I’ll see how it goes.
<blake2b>sneek: later tell zimoun: i sent you my blog submission yesterday but it was blocked by gmail for whatever reason. I've tried to resend it from another email address, but its unclear if it reached you. lmk, thanks!
<unmatched-paren>wifi up! now i have a grub-efi shell... i'm going to attempt grub-install now :)
<gnucode>I wonder how hard it would be to make a sway config for guix system using %base-services instead of %desktop-services... the goal being to have minimal dependencies. And to make updating super short (in terms of number of packages one has to build).
<gnucode>blake2b: just 'cause I'm a little nosy...what was your blog submission about?
<gnucode>faust does is podman? Is that a podcast catcher ?
<unmatched-paren>so i have to re-disable Secure Boot, change SATA type back to AHCI (the default is RST with Optane, which only seems to work with Microsoft(R) Windows(TM)), change function keys to actually work, and reinstall grub
<unmatched-paren>there is a way, but strict GNU policy in this channel is not to talk about it (personally, I think that if someone absolutely *needs* to use nonfree firmware, then we should help them so that they can use as much free stuff as they could on their hardware)
<Alex[m]1>unmatched-paren: Could you please send me PM?
<unmatched-paren>The thing that *really* annoys me is not people using nonfree stuff when it's necessary for their hardware to work, it's when people install e.g. Steam and claim they 'like [open | free]-source sofware, but I'm "pragmatic" about it'
<unmatched-paren>Both of them can be a bit shouty, from what i've seen of their emails ;)
<singpolyma>Honestly *using* nonfree software isn't unethical. Only producing or spreading it. And even RMS has famously said if your neighbour asks you for a copy of a nonfree program you should give it to them
<unmatched-paren>I'm not entirely convinced that Torvalds cares very much at all about free software (afaik he uses Ubuntu, which actively advertises proprietary software)
<gnucode>looks like my guix pull is trying to build ghc. I think that is the haskell compiler...that's odd. I wonder how I pulled in that dependancy. Also I have disabled substitutes, which may have been a mistake.
<unmatched-paren>but I don't know much at all about Linus, so i have no idea if he believes in the philosophy
<unmatched-paren>especially since Linux used a proprietary VCS for a while until git was developed
<gnucode>unmatched-paren: I kind of wonder if guix developers would care if I signed the copyright to my code to the FSF...
<singpolyma>gnucode: indeed. Substitutes are pretty important :)
<gnucode>It's a double edged sword... because guix doesn't have a policy of assigning copyright, we have LOTS of developers. It's easy to start helping out.
<gnucode>But how are we going to discourage people making guix a proprietary thing that some company sells?
<singpolyma>My discussions with bkuhn are part of what made me realise assignment is even worse than I thought
<singpolyma>For example, if you assign your copyright to FSF then the GPL will never be enforced on your copyrights even if you wanted them to be and were willing to put in the work
<gnucode>singpolyma really? I'm game to hear your opinion. I honestly liked when someone on this channel sent me a linux chain email. Basically suing someone was a great way to p*ss them off. And why would they help your software project after that?
<gnucode>singpolyma have we had some examples of that happen in the past?
<unmatched-paren>If the copyright holder goes bad (unlikely for the FSF but it's better to stick to principles 100% of the time instead of making exceptions) they can just take it proprietary whenever they like, since they hold all the copyright
<singpolyma>Anyone who needs to be sued is already a parasite and not helping :) don't sue your friends obviously
<unmatched-paren>examples of what I said: elasticsearch, apollo federation (those are just the ones I saw mentioned on Drew DeVault's blog)
<singpolyma>They can only take future versions nonfree since they can't revoke the license on already released code
<unmatched-paren>hm, i've been chatting all this time and haven't rebooted yet :) i'll do that now
<unmatched-paren>singpolyma: yeah, which is how amazon apparently forked elasticsearch
<singpolyma>But they can definitely be like the FSF and sit on a big pile of copyright and not defend or enforce with them
<flaminwalrus[m]>One of the really annoying "wrong turns" in my opinion is the GCC IRs (GIMPLE &co). There was an explicit design decision to make them as not-modular as possible, by separating necessary components between abstraction levels in an unnatural way, precisely because they wanted to make sure corporate tools couldn't use GCC as part of a compiler toolchain. This makes projects like Emacs' native-comp much harder than they would be if done for
<flaminwalrus[m]>LLVM IR, which is sanely designed. I do get that the FSF is in a unique place because they were the _only_ ones doing free and open operating systems at the time, but the compromises to usability made in that name are quite frustrating.
<singpolyma>Well, but that's the while point of copyleft. To force them to waste their money rebuilding things
<fiesh>I don't think gcc is "rapidly losing relevance"... it's made tremendous improvements over the last years, and arguably is still the best C and C++ compiler, both in terms of compile time and of performance of executable, even though the margin with clang's gotten small. plus libstdc++ hasn't really gotten any competition from libc++ either, it's still a good deal superior
<fiesh>I'm actually somewhat surprised this is the case, I guess it's a relatively small die-hard team vs. tons of people in a much more cumbersome review process?
<bjc>Kalq[m]: yes, the rmdir issue has been going on for at least a day. it's been reported to the mailing list, but there hasn't been a response yet (that i've seen, anyway)
<fiesh>although of course gcc is mainly backend by redhat, which belongs to IBM ;)
<fiesh>if gcc had been a more open platform, it may very well be though that llvm wouldn't have gained traction and the companies would have stuck with gcc. I don't think that the gpl is really the issue there to be honest
<unmatched-paren>yeah, more GNU projects should follow guix's lead of accepting contributions readily :)
<Kalq[m]>ah thanks bjc! Nice to know it's not some obscure issue just with my setup
<KE0VVT>Question: Can `guix-install.sh` be run non-interactively? Is there an `-y` option?
<Ox151>hello, can anyone help with appending entries to the /etc/hosts file? I see there is host-name and hosts-file in operating-system, but i am unsure how to use them to append to the current file creating the localhost entires.
<bjc>federation allows you to run your own, or choose to support one you like for whatever reason. it's not just about privacy, but about features and choice
<bjc>i'm old enough to remember a time when a thousand irc networks bloomed, and people did, in fact, run their own servers to connect to others without pre-clearing it
<singpolyma>unmatched-paren: there are alternate models for chatrooms and forums that work just as well as federation. But if you already have a federated system (for 1:1 real-time for example) then using it for the chatrooms too is easier than making them a separate identity protocol IMO
<bjc>was it a good idea? no, not really, but it was a heady time when anything was possible
<akonai>the nice thing about federated IM protocols is that you don't get the vendor lock in problem that happens with every single proprietary IM app
<bjc>that's why proprietary im apps don't allow federation, even if they are a thin gauze over xmpp under the hood
<unmatched-paren>bjc: didn't most of the proprietary apps abandon XMPP at some point?
<singpolyma>akonai: yup. I join everything from my one client and identity
<bjc>no, they embraced and extended it, while turning off federation because "spam"
<singpolyma>unmatched-paren: no. Many of them still use it internally
<singpolyma>Most of them never had federation on to begin with
<unmatched-paren>KE0VVT: i made a joke about YMPP, which singpolyma replied to, but Aurora_v_kosmose demolished it by noting that basically any modern messaging protocol has to be encrypted for it to gain acceptance :P
<singpolyma>Well, I don't normally have to deal with that. But also if I type startx it just works. I still just type one word (and usually zero words)
<bjc>Aurora_v_kosmose: they do? i don't know much about them, to be fair, but capability support is relatively recent (compared to lisp machines, anyway), and my understanding of them was that they had unmitigated access to the whole ram
<Aurora_v_kosmose>bjc: Well, in the case of the actual Lisp Machines yes, they did have ambient authority. But the general model of high level languages & security by language lends itself very well to a machine with no low-level memory addressing, only references.
<KE0VVT>singpolyma: Also, I've been on Wayland for years at this point. When I went back to i3, the infamous screen tearing I thought wasn't a big deal before became very apparent.
<singpolyma>KE0VVT: I'm still only 30% sure what "screen tearing" is
<KE0VVT>unmatched-paren: I wrote `i3` just for simplicity.
<Aurora_v_kosmose>singpolyma: Basically mismatched frame parts & lines showing up on screen.
<KE0VVT>singpolyma: Go to your web browser and scroll quickly up and down a webpage.
<bjc>Aurora_v_kosmose: the issue is, even with references, you need some way to direct a selected number through a capabilities layer. using caps for literally all references seems like it would be pretty slow
<unmatched-paren>X also has specialized video drivers for everything, i think, whereas Wayland just uses KMS
<Aurora_v_kosmose>In an ideal world, one could take a native library implementation of qubes API daemons, a unikernel lib, and a unikernel GUI lib & just wrap any program with that.
<Aurora_v_kosmose>Your dev machine for producing such images could depend on Guix. I'd imagine it'd be feasible with the same mechanism as the one used to build Docker images.
<philofosser>Hello, all. Does anyone know where guix's guile packages reside in a guix system? I've been poking around so I can read what all is in %desktop-services, %base-services, etc. My current goal is to remove stuff I frankly don't want clobbering up my potato like GDM.
<philofosser>If anyone can tip me off, that would be much appreciated.
<atka>philofosser: if you look at the source they are in guix/gnu/services, you will have a lot of .scm files in there but you can peak at what say base.scm exports and use only those services which you want
<atka>for instance I'm not using the whole desktop.scm but just using elogind from it
<zamfofex>civodul: All the packages you asked me are now done building under the new glibc and m4! (With the addition on GNU Hello for good measure.) Is there more testing I should do, or is that sufficient to submit a patch?
<civodul>zamfofex: yay, that looks like a good start!