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<ngz>apteryx: Ah ok. Thanks. I overlooked the info.
***MalRooks is now known as Rooks
<mekeor[m]>there is no console-based display-manager packaged for guix, right?
<mekeor[m]>also: do you define your xorg as a shepherd-user-service and put a "herd start xserver" or so in your xinitrc?
<mekeor[m]>uh, i think that didn't make much sense
<mekeor[m]>well, i think it does. here, civodul says, they use xinitrc to run shepherd: "Currently that’s what I do: my ~/.xinitrc runs shepherd and that’s it."
<raghavgururajan>sneek, later tell mothacehe: Just saw your gnome40 branch. Glad! :) Let me know if you need anything.
<sneek>Got it.
<b3>Hi, I have created a home configuration (identical to, but the packages are not being installed when I do a guix home reconfigure. Am I supposed to use a different command?
<Jeremy[m]>Are there any plans to build Guix with clang?
<Jeremy[m]>clang is more performant, and has a better code architecture
<awb99>mekeor: do you have an example for mcron as user service with shepherd? I am not able to find an example tht uses shepherd with mcron for user services.
<Jeremy[m]>I think Guix would benefit from using clang instead of gcc wherever possible...
<mekeor[m]>Jeremy: gcc and guix are gnu projects. i guess thats why guix uses gcc
<Jeremy[m]>mekeor[m]: That certainly makes sense.
<mekeor[m]>awb99: i find the user-services poorly documented, too :( i don't have a mcron-example, sorry
<Jeremy[m]>Although I would argue that guix should go with the best free-software solution to a problem, rather than privileging GNU solutions.
<Noisytoot>"GCC does not require a C++ compiler to build it."
<Noisytoot>Jeremy[m], GCC is licensed better (GPL)
<Noisytoot>How easy is clang to bootstrap?
<mekeor[m]>also, clang is not copyleft-licensed
<Jeremy[m]>gcc requires C++ nowadays
<Jeremy[m]>Noisytoot: it's already bootstrapped
<Noisytoot>Jeremy[m], with gcc?
<Noisytoot>it just adds another step to the bootstrapping process
<Jeremy[m]>Noisytoot: Sure but there are already a lot of steps
<Noisytoot>How long does clang take to compile (and how much memory does it use)?
<Jeremy[m]>clang can be compiled with GCC 4.7
<Jeremy[m]>which means that the bootstrap would be the same number of steps
<Jeremy[m]>`tcc` -> `gcc` 4.7 -> latest `llvm`
<mekeor[m]>i wonder if you could give it a try and replace gcc with clang in the gnu-build-system (lol, "gnu")
<Jeremy[m]>oh woops I read wrong
<Jeremy[m]>clang requires gcc 5
<apteryx>Jeremy[m]: a comparison from seems hardly fair. From what I've read, they're both pretty good compilers, but GCC usually win by some margin. More important than performance however is being part of GNU and forming a consistent system. The documentation of GCC is much better (and available in the info format), from what I can see.
<nckx>Jeremy[m]: <Are there any plans to build Guix with clang?> No.
<nckx>And the decision won't be based on biased pro-clang advertisement from Apple ☺
<Jeremy[m]>well, it seems a general consensus that clang has a clearer codebase
<Jeremy[m]>certainly, I (someone who doesn't know C or C++) can understand the clang code better than the gcc code
<singpolyma>Is there a good (or alternatively a bad) way to get a guix package matching a certain version range (from guile mostly, guix repl script or similar). I know I can easily get one that equals an exact version but sometimes I want a range (for import style scripts etc)
<nckx>Jeremy[m]: ”I think Guix would benefit from using clang instead of gcc wherever possible...” Why?
<Jeremy[m]>nckx: because it's considered to be a better codebase
<Jeremy[m]>clean OOP, not many macros, very clear separation between concerns (compilation split between multiple "passes" that are independent of each other)
<nckx>Then why does GCC generate better code? 😛 This all sounds very subjective.
<Jeremy[m]>it also performs faster in most benchmarks, and has a broader variety of optimizations (e.g. native LTO)
<Jeremy[m]>also most modern programming languages use LLVM rather than libgcc so there would be more consistency if LLVM were used (no need to maintain two separate compiler systems)
<nckx>None of this sounds remotely convincing, sorry.
<mekeor[m]>assuming i want to launch syncthing as a shepherd-user-service, do i really have to define a syncthing-service with "(define syncthing ...)" although it has been defined in (gnu services syncthing) already?
<nckx>You seem to really like clang though, which is cool. Guix has Clang! It would be awesome if you'd help improve (even just updating it can be an undertaking — despite its modularity claims, it's a very monolithic beast to maintain in practice). Creating a drop-in clang-build-system would be even awesomer! None of that means Guix has to ‘switch to’ Clang, or that Clang is better (it's really not).
<nckx>Jeremy[m]: ☝
<nckx>For Guix, it would be a downgrade.
*nckx ~> 😴💤, good night all.
<iskarian>singpolyma, consider looking at the crate importer
<iskarian>IIRC it does something with ranges using guile-semver
<singpolyma>iskarian: thanks! I will look there
<orangias>Anyone use yubikey? I couldn't run it on Guix. My config.scm file:
<MeowcatWoofWoofF>Is it possible to network boot into the Guix installer if I have another computer?
<lilyp>mekeor[m]: system services and user services are currently separate
<lilyp>even with guix home they will probably be for a while
<mekeor[m]>lilyp: thank you :)
<lilyp>also to whoever is claiming that clang has better architecture: tell that the poor soul that wants to package lld or libunwind
<dstolfa_>lilyp: what problem are you bumping into when packaging lld?
<dstolfa_>there are a couple of things that make llvm annoying, but i don't imagine that lld would be one of those?
<lilyp>lld requires headers from libunwind
<lilyp>libunwind requires libcxx or libcxxabi, not sure which
<lilyp>libcxxabi requires libcxx
<lilyp>libcxx requires libcxxabi
<dstolfa_>lilyp: hm, i can see how this might be annoying with guix. normally i build llvm from source fairly frequently, but i build it as a bundled thing with all the tools enabled
<dstolfa_>so i never bump into these issues
<lilyp>yeah it's just headers too, so you can make do with restricted source, but it also means that their separately distributed tarballs are junk, actually
<dstolfa_>well yeah, i just pick up literally all the tools and build them and shove them into /opt
<lilyp>"superior architecture" indeed
<lilyp>I just link all my rust stuff statically, because that's what my toolchain likes :)
<dstolfa_>there are certain things that are technically easier, such as cross-compilation and actually working with the internals
<dstolfa_>but i can agree that it's not good
<dstolfa_>it's just bad in a different way from gcc/binutils/...
<dstolfa_>it started with a noble goal... maybe didn't quite end there :)
<lilyp>clang is a convenient tool to use when dealing with nonfree ISAs because there's no pesky GPL telling you to distribute the source code of your compiler
<dstolfa_>well, it's also a convenient interface to build something like clang-format on and a number of static analyzers. it's not all anti-GPL motivated. some bits are for sure, but it's still free software so i'm okay with that
<dstolfa_>ultimately llvm's existence improved gcc and binutils quite a bit.
<lilyp>any way, I ought to go to bed now, not discuss toolchains
*dstolfa_ remembers the nasty time of gcc "compiler errors" which may as well have been just a call to backtrace() in compiler internals or redirected to /dev/null, as that's about how useful they were
*lilyp → zzz
<dstolfa_>good night!
<podiki[m]>orangias: I do, but I haven't used the u2f stuff really (mostly as a smartcard for gnupg)
<podiki[m]>orangias: I think the only relevant thing I did was adding (service pcscd-service-type) for my usage
<podiki[m]>orangias: and I believe u2f in icecat in guix works...? (I don't use it, but did try a test once to see it worked)
<orangias>podiki[m]: I'm trying on yubikey's website: However, it doesn't work. (Yubikey 5 NFC, in Icecat)
<podiki[m]>and have you done a reboot since any system configuration? that might help with these processes and hardware
<podiki[m]>it was finiky the first time I set it up, but has been fine since
<orangias>Yes I rebooted. After reconfiguring the system.
<podiki[m]>hrm. and I know it was only added to our icecat build a month or so ago, but I'm guessing you are up to date
<podiki[m]>I don't see any special user groups, my config just has wheel, netdev, audio, video
<podiki[m]>does your yubikey show up in gpg, lsusb, etc.?
<orangias>78.14.0.esr. I will try a more minimal config.scm like yours. Yes for example, when I enter the command "gpg --card-status", I see the card.
<orangias>Just added (service pcscd-service-type) in config.scm > system reconfigure > reboot > mission failed again
<podiki[m]>like I said, the first time I also ran into it not working or being sporadic, but then was fine (didn't change anything...)
<podiki[m]>if you have another browser, you can try there in case it is icecat
<podiki[m]>I don't think there was anything to enable on Icecat, but I can't remember for sure right now
<orangias>security.webauth.u2f default enabled in icecat. I also tried ungoogled-chromium and it didn't work.
<podiki[m]>maybe try watching syslog (tail -f /var/log/syslog) as you try, and some unplugging/replugging at various stages
<podiki[m]>(also, some browsers may request your permission to use your security key. when i had the problem it was failing there in some way it seemed)
<orangias>podiki[m]: Both firefox and chromium ask for my permission, and I proceed. I will try with another distro in virtual machine. Could the card be corrupt?
<podiki[m]>I've had yubikeys seem like they get in a weird state
<podiki[m]>I don't know why, or how to fix it, I just plug/replug/different computer/unlock card and some combo does it
<podiki[m]>fixes it, i mean
<orangias>It looks very random. wish me luck :D
<podiki[m]>good luck! you are not alone, hopefully it also works randomly as I've exhausted my knowledge
***califax- is now known as califax
<orangias>podiki[m]: I did a few tries. U2f works on Trisquel (Abrowser) and Grapheneos. Otp also works on Guix but u2f is still broken.
<podiki[m]>I'd bug report that, it should and has worked
<podiki[m]>I know there are others that use yubikeys and u2f around somewhere, maybe not awake right now
<orangias>It's a difficult situation to explain, but I'll try to bug report it anyway. Thank you for your help and guidance. I would have figured it out thanks to you if I hadn't been in some extraordinary crap.
<podiki[m]>it is annoying when you can't see what is really going wrong
<the_tubular>What is guix's default display manager and can I remove it ?
<apteryx>if you're using a desktop template, that'd be gdm, and yes you can remove it
<apteryx>it's part of %desktop-services
<the_tubular>How do I remove it, I,m unsure what a "desktop template" is
<the_tubular>Haa, got it
<the_tubular>Thanks :)
<apteryx>happy to help!
<excalamus>hi, Guix
<the_tubular>Insatlled xinit, that should work, begone Gnome!
<zamfofex>Jeremy[m]: I find LLVM to be specially neat. I think part of what makes it seem so neat to me is how it does indeed separate compilation from code generation into two very clearly distinct steps.
<zamfofex>The benefit being that other programming languages can target it and benefit from features such as optimizations and its various backends without having to fork the project or some such. I think that’s really neat!
<zamfofex>Another neat thing being that LLVM is designed with cross‐compilation in mind. GCC can cross‐compile, though it seems to have been an afterthought. From my experiences, it’s definitely not as straight‐forward as with Clang.
<zamfofex>Though I don’t think the points you brought up sound particularly convincing, and the reason is that they are either vague or subjective.
<zamfofex>You claim that Guix would benefit from using Clang instead of GCC, but when you are asked why, you claim that “Clang has a better codebase”.
<zamfofex>Which is an understandable reason. But when you are asked “why does Clang has a better codebase?”, you list some seemingly hand‐wavy objective points.
<zamfofex>Personally, I don’t really like C++ and object orientation, so some of the points you mentioned makes me feel the converse.
<zamfofex>I don’t think the points in the Apple analysis you linked are false, and I agree with most of them. Though I think it’s generally easy to make either side seem bad by virtue of wording or cherry picking.
<zamfofex>It might not necessarily be *intentionally* biased, by the way. In that analysis case, it seems a lot of the points they brough up seem to be regarding using the compiler alongside an external tool such as a code editor or IDE.
<zamfofex>Clang works better in that regard, because (as it mentions in that very page), it was designed with the use‐case in mind. GCC wasn’t, and that usage is not a goal for how it is used.
<zamfofex>That can be seen as “bad” if you want a compiler that can integrate well with editors, but otherwise it’s not particularly useful. Specifically, a lot of the points in the Apple page are not relevant to the original point you were making about Guix at all.
<zamfofex>Jeremy[m]: Though I’d honestly still encourage you to experiment! Guix is fairly easy to customize in general. You could modify the C compiler used to Clang, and you should be able to try out those changes in packages by yourself!
<zamfofex>That might be an interesting thing to try out! If you do believe there is legitimate benefit for it, you could also release your modifications and explain your rationale for it in a way that people can easily try out and use.
<zamfofex>But I just don’t think Clang is obviously better from a technicial perspective as you seem to be claiming. I don’t think it’s worse either, it just takes a different approach. It definitely has benefits, but that doesn’t mean it’s always the better choice.
<zamfofex>(Sorry for posting so much text! I just felt like I had a lot to say. I hope everything seems sensible enough.)
<lilyp>Also, the whole "coding tips by compiling" thing looks a little weird if you consider having to compile the codebase as you type
<lilyp>When Emacs can just as well point you towards errors found in M-x compile using GCC Clang or any other compilerr
<Jeremy[m]>zamfofex: thanks for the lengthy response!
<tissevert>hi guix
<asdf-uio`>hi tissevert
<robin>a couple wishlist items (going into my org file): an equivalent of dpkg -L (i use guix build as a workaround); an equivalent of apt-file (which is of course a much more difficult problem)
<robin>and i ought to set up mlocate properly instead of hacks like periodically running 'find . > manifest'
<robin>(mlocate or plain old locate, i guess)
<robin>(a very crude approximation of apt-file might be implemented as a terrible hack using 'make -n install' for gnu packages, but it's probably easier to just build them)
<yoctocell>sneek: later tell apteryx: Just a heads-up, since I mentioned it on the ML, I am working on documenting (gnu services configuration) in the manual. :-)
<sneek>Got it.
<maximed_>sneek: later tell pkill9: While SELinux configurations usually label binaries specially, SELinux can do without labelling binaries, if the programs manually switch context (I don't remember the necessary commands though). (IIUC, I haven't ever actually tried this)
<sneek>Got it.
<maximed_>sneek: later tell pkill9: E.g. with 'runcon'
<maximed>sneek: botsnack
<wigust>hi guix
*civodul just sent patches adding 'guix shell':
<civodul>feedback welcome!
<vivien>civodul, I’m afraid it would be easy to confuse guix shell and guix repl
<wigust>civodul: I would like to try to move everything (gnu home-services XYZ) to either (gnu services XYZ) or (gnu home services xdg). Any preference what should be chosen?
<wigust>* (gnu home services XYZ)
<roptat>hi guix!
<roptat>so, after adding missing files to, there are 130 new strings to translate at (I took care of most of them already in French, will finish shortly)
<roptat>I'll delay my usual translation merge to sometime after the week-end, to give you all a chance to complete the translation in your favorite language(s) :)
<itd>Hi. Question: for packages p[0123] where -i> input and -pi> propagated-input in dependency graph "(p3 -i> (p2 -i> (p1 -pi> p0)))": p0 will not be available when building p3, correct? (Because p2 does not propagate input p1?)
<oriansj>itd: only direct dependencies are used in the builds
<oriansj>So if a->b->c->d is your build chain b will only have a and output c; c will only have b and output d
<itd>oriansj: Thanks. :)
<yoctocell>wigust: I would prefer (gnu services …) since that would allow for more code sharing
<wigust>yoctocell: I think the same. ;-)
*wigust moving (gnu home-services XYZ) to (gnu services)
<Zelphir>Hi! I have a Guile question, which I would like to ask with some lines of code. Is there a preferred way of posting code here?
<zamfofex>Zelphir: I think you should post it to a website and share the link here. Like for example.
<Zelphir>Thank you zamfofex!
<Zelphir>So I got the following code: and I am wondering what I am doing wrong. I have also put the strack trace displayed by Geiser using ,bt and a trace displayed by Geiser using ,trace in the paste. Often I have these kind of traces, where 90% is Guile internal stuff, that I do not understand. Then I can see somewhere after `(min-length)` I get an error. I am not calling min-length myself, so it must be some internal stuff
<Zelphir>or SRFI-43 stuff. I have tried "print debugging", but the error seems to happen inside the form of `vector-map`. Anything before I can print, but as soon as vector-map is called the error comes and I don't know what I did wrong.
<Zelphir>Somewhere internally some call of `cdr` seems to get an empty list and I don't know what is causing it.
<roptat>I've never used srfi-43 before, so it's hard to say... maybe #guile will have more knowledgeable people?
<lilyp>Zelphir: It appears you're not looping correctly, can that be?
<Zelphir>Am I not? Let me check again, I am probably blind to the mistake already.
<Zelphir>`next-update` takes only 1 argument, the next index in the "updates" (vector of update elements). I am giving it 1 argument in `(next-update (+ index 1))`. Or is there another place?
<Zelphir>Ah oh my, I am sorry.
<Zelphir>I thought I was posting in #guile :D
<Zelphir>I have my client on auto-join and both channels are opened, and I posted into the wrong one -.-
<Zelphir>I'll move it ;)
<lilyp>Zelphir another suggestion: Have a single procedure (update-item), which produces multiple values
<Zelphir>What would those return values be? (and are you in #guile? then I could stop hijacking this channel^^')
<robin>hmm, installing guix on a laptop and it appears to freeze after a "udevd[$N]: no sender credentials received, message ignored" error
<robin>(after the "this may take time" entropy-gathering message, but i assume it's gathered the entropy required after it starts printing other messages on the console)
<robin>"nomodeset" 'fixed' it
<apteryx>yoctocell: neat!
<sneek>Welcome back apteryx, you have 1 message!
<sneek>apteryx, yoctocell says: Just a heads-up, since I mentioned it on the ML, I am working on documenting (gnu services configuration) in the manual. :-)
<vivien>What is the purpose of core-updates-frozen?
<civodul>wigust: hi! i'd say (gnu home services xyz), unless things are really shared
<civodul>please run this through guix-patches so we can discuss
<civodul>roptat: yay for more translated strings! :-)
<wigust>civodul: mcron shares, currently using (@@ (gnu services mcron) job-files) and (@@ (gnu services mcron) shepherd-schedule-action)
<wigust>civodul: also I already moved all to (gnu services) and wanted to send the patches :D
<civodul>wigust: hmm ok, let's discuss it on guix-patches then
<civodul>in general, @@ should never be used
<civodul>it's also not guaranteed to work these days, due to inlining
<wigust>civodul: ok, i'll send the patch series in a few minutes to guix-patches
*wigust sended to
<excalamus>good morning, guix
<bsturmfels>Where would I import `slurp-file-gexp` from - I'm trying `guix home import`
<civodul>wigust: ↑
*civodul would like 'slurp-file-gexp' to not exist in the first place
<wigust>civodul: i'll try to add a support for file-like objects instead of those slurp-file-gexp work arounds
<bsturmfels>hehe ok
<civodul>wigust: cool, that'd be great!
<jab>morning guix!
<ronald>hi :D
<nckx>zamfofex: <re: clang: Sorry for posting so much text> It's OK if it's worth it! :-) You said what I thought (and more), but much better, thanks.
<nckx>Morning, Guix…
<excalamus>sneek, later ask iskarian Hey, it's been like a month, but I finally finished my write up. After reworking my website, the site generator, hacking together some CSS to represent diffs, and then remembering what the heck we did, the build experience preserved at I've got some follow up questions for next time you and I are able to talk. I appreciate your help and wanted to give an update from the ether...
<sneek>Welcome back excalamus, you have 3 messages!
<sneek>excalamus, excalamus says: hi
<sneek>excalamus, excalamus says: hi"
<sneek>excalamus, excalamus says: something
<maximed>excalmus: ‘Are "fields" [..] actually GOOPS slots?’ --> AFAIL they aren't: the <package> record uses (guix record), which doesn't use GOOPS, but I suppose it would be possible to implement (guix records) on top of GOOPS
<maximed>excalamus: ‘Are "fields" [..] actually GOOPS slots?’ --> AFAIL they aren't: the <package> record uses (guix record), which doesn't use GOOPS, but I suppose it would be possible to implement (guix records) on top of GOOPS
<maximed>excalamus: pypi-uri is in (guix build-system python)
<maximed>Find it with ‘git grep -F define\*\ \(pypi-uri guix’
<maximed>or do "git grep -F pypi-uri | grep define"
<maximed>I recommend using "git grep -F pypi-uri | grep define" to find where something is defined (and what module you need to import)
<maximed>excalamus: The signifance of the license: prefix is that there is an 'expat' license and an 'expat' package, so license: is sometimes needed for disambiguation
***teddd is now known as theottm
***theottm is now known as teddd
<maximed>sneek: later tell excalamus: some comments about your post:
<sneek>Got it.
<maximed>* AFAIL->AFAIK
<awb99>Is anyone using guix on cloud machines? I guess one easy way is creating docker images from guix. But for dedicated servers, I guess currently only the digital ocean api is interesting. Any other options that do not need a lot of manual tweaking?
<DigitalKiwi>not yet but now i have project ideas curse you
<pinoaffe>awb99: I don't know what you exactly mean by "cloud machines", but I have a VPS running guix at hetzner
<pinoaffe>I use `guix deploy` to provision it
<awb99>hetzner is great.
<awb99>how do you do the bootstrapping?
<pinoaffe>awb99: I used a bash script to take over a centos installation and guixify it
<DigitalKiwi>is guix-infect a thing yet
<DigitalKiwi>or do i need to make it a thing
<maximed>or running "sudo guix system reconfigure" on a foreign distro?
<maximed>(Not sure about the details)
<maximed>Debian systems have been turned into guix systems
<maximed>but I do not recall the details
<DigitalKiwi>pinoaffe: nice
<pinoaffe>I found this shell script somewhere and modified it slightly, it's not my code
<awb99>very nice!
<wigust>civodul: done in 50967
<awb99>Will after running such a "hostile takeover" the guix system be the only thing remaining? Or will there be traces of the old debian still there?
<nckx>awb99: Plenty. Guix will only overwrite files (in /etc, etc.) managed by its own services; all others will be left behind. At best they'll be harmless but it's theoretically possible they could influence the final system in unforseen ways, so I delete them based on timestamp.
<awb99>Did anyone successfully use the digital ocean config in guix? I tried it, and am getting this error from "guix deploy": HTTP post failed: 422 ("Unprocessable Entity")
<apteryx>awb99: I'm not sure it got much use since it's inception; perhaps it's a bit rusty? I don't use it myself.
<apteryx>seems the most elegant way to get out of the librsvg <-> gdk-pixbuf+svg dependency cycle would be to add a new profile hook to regitser available libpixbuf loaders.
<apteryx>(thinking about how to solve #50957)
<apteryx>the problem is that librsvg needs to propagate gdk-pixbuf, but it should really propagate gdk-pixbuf+svg with the current static way to register the loaders, which introduces the cycle
<apteryx>then we'd no longer have gdk-pixbuf+svg; we'd have gdk-pixbuf only, and packages needing svg support from librsvg would propagate librsvg directly
<apteryx>or perhaps there's some support in gdk-pixbuf to discover loaders from an environment variable such as XDG_DATA_DIRS, in which case we could simply define a search path specification
<apteryx>(to be investigated)
<lilyp>why does librsvg need to propagate gdk-pixbuf?
<lilyp>is there a cycle going on?
<civodul>awb99: to turn a foreign distro into Guix System, you can run "guix system init config.scm /"
<civodul>it usually works well but you have to be prepared for a bumpy reboot
<civodul>so... at your own risk :-)
<brettgilio>It's a little strange we havent had a blog post in over a month
<brettgilio>Also, I hope you are all doing well
<brettgilio>teaching this year has been.... exotic
<oriansj>brettgilio: flaming jello shots exotic or flaming bag of dog poop "exotic" ?
<brettgilio>flaming bag of dog poop
<brettgilio>the school has been over run with "Tiktok challenges" that basically amount to the 1968 french student riots but without an actual goal or reason
<brettgilio>like stealing from teachers
*brettgilio off
*brettgilio oof*
<Christoph[m]><brettgilio> "It's a little strange we..." <- Yes, and guix pull --news told me there's a new feature: guix home!
<brettgilio>that was roptat's work right?
<brettgilio>or ambivar
<oriansj>brettgilio: just be glad you don't have the caught a group of 18+ people in a secured government building filming a porno problem. Which somehow keeps happening in Grand Tower.
<brettgilio>18+ people, or people over 18?
<brettgilio>major difference and I need clarification
<oriansj>18+ people but yeah they were all over the age of 18 as well
<brettgilio>thats a lot of peope
<oriansj>one group were in the 60+ age range and I didn't need to see that shit (literally)
<brettgilio>some how your timeline destined you to stumble upon such
<oriansj>it happening once would have been one thing but it has happened 7 of the last 16 times I went into the office
<brettgilio>guix: home: command not found
<oriansj>and mind you, one needs a security clearance to enter the building and one's ID badge tagged for entry. Yet somehow people without either are found within.
<yoctocell>brettgilio: re "guix: home: command not found", you probably have to run guix pull first
<lilyp>le tailgating
<brettgilio>im on the latest pull
<oriansj>lilyp: le using firedoor and disabling fire alarm and security cameras
<brettgilio>oh wait no im not
<brettgilio>I forgot im not on my regular guix machine
<brettgilio>oriansj I wish you luck with that dilemma lol
<brettgilio>im being dragged to a baseball game tonight on the premise that I get free beer. Worth it???? (its supposed to rain)
<brettgilio>civodul I use guix in my classroom. >:)
<oriansj>not even my problem but building security to deal with. I'm just on site for the secure offline backups being updated and tested.
<singpolyma>brettgilio: hmm, get covid in exchange for beer. Easy choice for me ;)
*mekeor[m] falls in love with emacs-guix
<oriansj>singpolyma: depends on your vaccination status.
<oriansj>and if you like beer
<brettgilio>im vaccinated, but the delta variant here doesnt seem to care
<singpolyma>oriansj: double vax for me, but what about everyone else?
<singpolyma>Yes, how much you like beer and what beer it will be I could see as big factors
<brettgilio>gamma variant, next lambda variant? RIP Lambda Calculus
<oriansj>inevitable result of an infected population exceeding 1M people
<brettgilio>All I can imagine is alonzo church infecting my body
<civodul>brettgilio: oh, nice!
<oriansj>brettgilio: in a sexy way or in invasion of the body snatchers way?
<civodul>bricewge: and welcome back, good to see you around!
<brettgilio>oriansj yes
<vivien>Vaccines help but aren’t perfect. Please don’t do anything stupid :)
<maximed>How strict are we with version numbers in guix?
<brettgilio>civodul you as well :)
<maximed>I'm asking in the context of Minetest mods
<brettgilio>I hope you are doing well brother.
<maximed>where sometimes dates are used as version number, and sometimes numbers like 1.2.3
<vivien>Texlive 2021 is now 3.24 GiB
<vivien>I have to say, that’s a big package!
<brettgilio>vivien is that bigger or smaller from the previous closures?
<brettgilio>I honestly dont remember
<vivien>Texlive 2019 was around 2.6
<vivien>If I remember correctly
<maximed>And the versioning style (version or date) on is often inconsist with what's used on the forums or git repository
<vivien>Or 2.8
<poet>Hello. I just brought this laptop online for the first time in about 2 years. I'm running Debian 10.4 with guix. When I tried to update guix, I got the following message:
<maximed>E.g., for minetest-technic, all is fine, because only dates are used
<brettgilio>poet guix describe
<maximed>likewise for minetest-worldedit, but for version numbers,
<maximed>but for minetest-ethereal, there is a problem: the release on ContentDB is ahead of the latest version number
<maximed>So git-version is used
<vivien>Is it that weird thing with let’s encrypt certificate authority that expired a few days ago?
<dstolfa>maximed: somewhat related: are there any good games based on minetest that you'd recommend?
<poet>brettgilio: "error: failed to determine origin. hint: Perhaps this guix command was not obtained with 'guix pull'? Its version string is 1.0.1"
<vivien>I didn’t understand everything
<maximed>it would be convenient to simply use whatever ContentDB uses in these cases
<maximed>poet: What's the value of "$SSL_CERT_DIR" and "$SSL_CERT_FILE"?
<singpolyma>poet: definitely smells like the letsencrypt thing
<maximed>dstolfa: I always use the default game, though with extra mods
<poet>maximed: How do I get those values?
<maximed>poet: run "echo $SSL_CERT_FILE" from the shell
<maximed>(without the "quotes")
<maximed>likewise for SSL_CERT_DIR
<poet>maximed: Nothing. Blank line.
<brettgilio>did you include the $?
<brettgilio>if so, it may be unset
<poet>brettgilio: Yes.
<maximed>Is there some option to ignore TLS certificates?
<maximed>Because "guix pull" doesn't depend on TLS for security, except to prevent eavesdropping
<vivien>Does debian (without running anything from guix) works?
<maximed>poet: dunno if this work, but maybe try running "guix environment --ad-hoc nss-certs -- guix pull"
<maximed>If SSL_CERT_FILE is unset, this presumably means the certificates from the system are used (IIUC)
<maximed>so if this is on Debian, running "apt-get update && apt-get upgrade" could update the certificates, which might resolve the problem
<poet>vivien: Yes, Debian is working fine. I ran 'apt update' with no problems, but havent used 'apt dist-upgrade' yet because the download is so large. I was gonna wait until this evening. But no problems with anything else I've tried.
<poet>maximed: I'll try that.
<vivien>Can you wget from debian?
<mekeor[m]>poet: maybe your version of guix has a cli-option to make guix-pull ignore the invalidity of certificates? (that wouldn't be so secure but it might work)
<maximed>dstolfa: FWIW, it shouldn't be hard to implement importing minetest games from ContentDB I think
<dstolfa>maximed: ah, cool!
<maximed>Most code for importing minetest mods should be reusable
<poet>maximed: That seems to be working. Updating substitutes now...
<poet>maximed: My connection is only about 75 kib/s, so this might take a little time. I'll let you know what happens.
*dstolfa really wishes he had time to make Guix and SELinux play nicely together
*dstolfa does a lot of relabeling on his systems
<maximed>dstolfa: did you see my message about why labeling the store shouldn't be necessary (with a non-standard policy, and with caveats)?
<dstolfa>maximed: i did not!
<dstolfa>could you link me the log?
<maximed>You'll probably need to patch many programs to manually switch context if you tries that though ...
<maximed>* tries -> try
<dstolfa>ah i see what you mean.
<mekeor[m]>oh, guix offers icecat-78 which is derived from firefox-78 ("extended support version") which will reach its end of life on 5th november 2021, i.e. in three days :(
<vivien>Hey hey we’re still in october, don’t rush :)
<mekeor[m]>vivien: err, sorry, i meant 5th october actually
<mekeor[m]>at least that's how i understand this table:
*mekeor[m] installs ungoogled-chromium
<maximed>It appears the next ESR is 91.1.0 (
<vivien>Why is the "latest" version 60.7.0 at
<maximed>oh right, icecat != firefox