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<leoprikler>joke's on you, polari swallows ENTRYMSG :P
*vagrantc wonders how long till the botnets hit libera :)
<rekado>ryanprior: is that … the same channel but different protocol?
*rekado feels so old
<pushcx>vagrantc: a few hours ago someone had a bot troll by joining every channel and all-caps 'announcing' the channel had moved to freenode :p
<ngz>Hello! So this is the new place.
<nckx>Lezbereal. It is sneek who will decide that. We must lure her here with botsnacks and scratchies. It's not #guix otherwise.
<leoprikler>Ai like how Yuu wrote lezbereal and continued to use female pronouns.
<nckx>GNUHacker: Yes.
<nckx>Always have for sneek, unless it would be jarring in a preexisting convo.
<leoprikler>Huh, over at #guile you used they/them, but I'm can't recall further than that and am too lazy to create a corpus.
<vagrantc>oh no, sneek seems to be lost
<nckx>leoprikler: Because there lurks the creator who consistenly uses ‘he’ and I didn't want to make a point of it.
<leoprikler>Fair enough, but I still like the pun.
<nckx>vagrantc: :( and I just got confirmation that sneek supports only one network at a time, so if #guile stays @ Freenode we're in trouble.
<nckx>Time to fork and rewrite in Scheme.
<vagrantc>might have to let the bots reproduce
<rekado>I would be happy to write a new bot called “snack”, which only responds to botsnacks.
<vagrantc>it's possible to bridge between both networks ... i see at least one channel i'm on is doing that somehow
<vagrantc>but it's kind of obnoxious
<vagrantc>sort of a worst of both worlds scenario
<nckx>vagrantc: If it's anything like the ‘IRC bridging’ I've seen... brr. Imagine that interacting with the ERC bug.
<vagrantc>it basically looks like a bot that just relays messages bi-directionally
<vagrantc>prefixing the "foreign" network with the network name
<nckx>That's what I had in mind.
<leoprikler>that'd be a nice application for sneek tell
<nckx>Maybe it's just me, but I can't get used to ‘randombot: ed: Hi! randombot: bob: Hi ed! randombot: ed: Yes.’ conversations. I eventually stop reading and leave.
<nckx>1st world problems correct.
<leoprikler>Oh, sure, but think about it this way.
<nckx>This is the Internet, I refuse to think.
<leoprikler>You write some message in some random channel on Libera…
<leoprikler>and then sneek tells Andrew wherever he's to be found "Fuck you" :)
<nckx>Oh no, someone lost sneek's neural net data and now she's 12 again.
<nckx>We shall raise her as one of us.
<nckx>* sneek :Nickname is already in use.
<nckx>We got sneeksquatted.
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<leoprikler>There was a message over in #guile, it's probably dsmith.
*snack registers snack.
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<nckx>Oh, good
<leoprikler>In soviet IRC snack eats bot.
<ngz>Ah. Time to go. See you!
<roptat>since we're discussing IRC stuff, what's the requirement to become moderator here?
<nckx>Er... Trust and a basic (completely self-assessed and possibly promised future) competence in IRC commands? Yeah, that's about it. Why?
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<nckx>Thanks for the reminder.
<roptat>well, obviously, I was thinking about becoming one :)
<nckx>roptat: Now?
<roptat>nckx, mh... I don't feel any different
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<roptat>oh, ok :)
<roptat>thanks :)
<taylan>FYI, since wingo isn't registered on libera yet, I gave channel founder and other rights to civodul for now, since he's also an official maintainer. I'm going to sleep now!
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<drakonis>i have to say i am highly pleased about the things licend up for 1.4
<apteryx>it'll be an interesting one for sure!
<apteryx>There's already a couple gems on core-updates
<drakonis>this i gotta see
<drakonis>what's in core-updates?
<apteryx>on top of my head; parallel xz compression for everything, halved rust bootstrap, a python sanity check phase that detects run time problems, tweaks to texlive that allows composing multiple texlive trees
<apteryx>there was some work to completely get rid of the phases boolean return status, so you don't need that trailing #t anymore
<apteryx>and the unpack/patch/repack logic has been reworked and is more capable (supports more type of compression, or no compression)
<drakonis>oh nice.
<drakonis>can i finally deal with python packages that have rust dependencies?
<drakonis>i have a django package that requires orjson
<drakonis>and that's a python package that needs rust nightly to build
<apteryx>does it really require nightly? you may be able to relax its requirements to use the last stable rust release?
<apteryx>it's a bit hardcore to *depend* on nightly
<drakonis>it is uhhh
<drakonis>a normal thing to do in rust, sadly.
<drakonis>there's a specific build flag only available in nightly builds that orjson needs
<drakonis>-X or was it -Z?
<apteryx>I'm not knowledgeable about rust, have only worked on its bootstrap chain with mrustc :-)
<drakonis>mutable-noalias=yes is what it requires from rust nightly
<apteryx>perhaps you could double-check your options in #rust for ideas
<drakonis>hmm, perhaps
<drakonis>alternatively, i wanted to shunt this particular bit into a container, as i have been doing on my nixos server a while back
<drakonis>i'm running a django service inside an arch container because i dont want to deal with these things, but i cant seem to figure out a way to do this in guix right now
<drakonis>its the only thing that's preventing me from switching my vps to guix
<drakonis>because i need to keep serving this and i dont want to run another vps and spend more money
<apteryx>you could always run it in docker meanwhile
<drakonis>ehhh i dont want to have to learn docker
<drakonis>speaking of which, when's podman on the repos?
<drakonis>i'd probably run that alongside something like toolbox instead of docker
<apteryx>hadn't heard of toolbox until now
<drakonis> has a hard dep on this
<apteryx>ah, that one yes
<theruran>are there alternative instructions to `. "$GUIX_PROFILE/etc/profile"` for fish users?
<vagrantc>apteryx: "< apteryx> I'm not knowledgeable about rust, have only worked on its bootstrap chain with mrustc :-)" hah! *all* you did was work on bootstrapping it. :P
<apteryx>scotch tape together the existing bootstrapping components, even
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<efraim>another test failure on guile-3.0.7 on powerpc :(
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<jpoiret>is there a way to specify that some mapped filesystems should be mounted before trying to start the swap service?
<jpoiret>i use a swapfile on a luks-encrypted btrfs and the swap service always fails at boot
<nckx>Morning #guix.
<nckx>theruran: Not currently.
<nckx>jpoiret: Not currently.
<nckx>There, my work here's done.
<theruran>thx nckx
<nckx>theruran: You could try <>. Guix currently assumes you're a power user if you use fish or another non-bash shell (not unreasonably) and doesn't generate profiles in different dialects.
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<jpoiret>i'll see if i can add that, although i haven't used guix that much, thanks. also is there any licence reason that zotero isn't packaged? i'll consider making a package for it not
<nckx>jpoiret: The list of swap-devices string just generates a list of Shepherd services, so you should define your own swap service that does order itself correctly. Not trivial by any means, and I'd like to replace swap-devices with first-class file-system objects, but that's bitrotting since my use case went away.
<jpoiret>is there any reason using swap-device instead of a proper service is preferred (same for filesystems)? I don't know any of operating-system's intricacies and if there's more to it than just this
<nckx>jpoiret: Zotero looks free (and it's in Debian main, a good sign). If there are problems, my guess is they are related to dependency hell or bootstrapping or something in that area, it being a ‘Web App’.
<nckx>jpoiret: I think it's just historical.
<jpoiret>thanks for the help! i'll try all of this when i have time
<nckx>You can't define a swap partition in (file-systems ...), Guix won't swap it on.
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<nckx>theruran: I just realised you could change your ‘shell’ to a trivial bash script that sources your profile and simply ‘exec fish’ at the end. Much simpler...
<nckx>exec -l fish "$@" to be precise.
<theruran>nckx: that's a good idea! I'll try that on my laptop later
<leoprikler>Sounds fishy.
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<cbaines>morning all :)
<cbaines>although not quite as many people as there are in the freenode #guix
<cbaines>I wonder if people are able to connect through Matrix yet
<tissevert>hi guix here too
<pineapples>Good morning! Oh? We have Matrix? Is it official, though?
<cbaines>At least with Freenode, the IRC channel was bridged so that a Matrix client could be used to join
<nckx>‘This is being worked on’ is the standard answer for now.
<nckx>By the Libera people, not us, I don't think this is something we can do unilaterally.
<tissevert>so when did the migration (to Libera) become official ? how was it decided ?
<GNUtoo>Hi, when joining #guix on Freenode I had:
<GNUtoo> -ChanServ(ChanServ@services.)- [#guix] ⚠️ Important: the official #guix support channel has moved to We'll see you there! ⚠️
<GNUtoo>How did you manage to do that?
<nckx>GNUtoo: It's called an ENTRYMSG. You can configure ChanServ to send them on joining.
<cbaines>Do the challenge tests in Guix hang for anyone else?
<cbaines>When attempting to update the package, it gets to PASS: tests/cache.scm, but no further
<tissevert>thanks for the link
<tissevert>ok, that was pretty much the conversation I was hoping to see while I was still around until ~19:00 UTC+2 but then I had to left
<nckx>What do you mean ‘hoping to see’?
<tissevert>I'm relieved to learn that you had some insight about the situation, it can escalate so quickly to «As say B is the bad guy, B says As are the bad guys» and then it's only obvious someone's trying to manipulate you but it's so hard to be certain which side it is
<tissevert>I mean the situation was a bit surreal and floating
<tissevert>I was the second person to reach this chan on libera, and we didn't know yet if moving for good was the right decision
<tissevert>and some very nice persons introduced me to the joys of matrix and I was wondering what was going to happen
<tissevert>it's just that obviously as a community we'd have to make a choice but it didn't seem to be the moment to make such a choice yet because the info was to recent and not enough people were around
<smarton>Hey guys, why does Guix seem somewhat "allergic" to Rust? I remember seeing multiple times on this channel reactions like "ugh rust". Is it because of big compile times of the rust compiler itself or are there other problems for distro packaging?
<nckx>tissevert: I just listened to people I trust. And not because I ‘like’ them. That's about as good as truth gets on the Internet, I guess.
<cbaines>I think bootstrapping, non-incremental builds and these problems being pulled in to various areas are the main issues with Rust, at least in my mind
<nckx>(Honestly, this particular drama is surprisingly clear-cut.)
<tissevert>nckx: I never though it was a matter of «liking» someone better than someone else !!
<tissevert>it's I don't know anyone in this particular situation so I realised I could never have made an informed decision, which is why I praised your insight
<tissevert>(it was in no way ironical or anything, I hope that's not how my messages came out)
<nckx>Now let's hope the new network does well so we don't have to move again (I considered OFTC too, but that would be a much more significant move; Libera is just Freenode in exile).
<nckx>tissevert: Not at all.
<stikonas>smarton: yeah, rust is quite hard to bootstrap, mrustc helps of course, but it's a bit picky (regarding compiler versions, arches, etc...) and slow (takes a while to bootstrap the whole chain)
<nckx>The length of the Rust bootstrap chain has been halved on the core-updates branch.
<nckx>So that's nice.
<tissevert>do you need some people to remain for a while on freenode to warn the people who missed all this and redirect them here or do you rather need us to actually move so it becomes obvious freenode was abandonned and there's no «ghost presence» left ?
<stikonas>yeah. Outside guix I successfully built mrustc->rustc-1.39->...->rustc-1.51 which shortens it again, but it will always be catchup game...
<stikonas>(at least until/if rust decides to standardize a bit)
<nckx>tissevert: If I wanted everyone to leave I could just kick them out and lock the channel, but that's all a bit dramatic. I'd like it to just dry up.
<nckx>Though I might accelerate that if it starts to turn into a SpamZone or Unpleasant Place that we don't want associated with the Guix name.
<nckx>It's too soon to say.
<nckx>If you want to remain and explain, that's of course very welcome.
<nckx>I will be reading it less & less.
<roptat>hi guix!
<tissevert>hi roptat
<smarton>cbaines, nckx, stikonas: thanks for the explanations!
<efraim>there's also the gccrs project, but I don't think it'll replace cargo, if i understand it then it can replace 'rustc' in the compiling
<jlicht>so, hello there new-guix!
<phundrak>Hello o/
<nckx>Hi jlicht.
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<apteryx>efraim: thanks for trying (and reproducing) the ell test suite failure on your side!
<civodul>Hello tiny #guix! :-)
<civodul>bummer that ERC doesn't support multiple same-named channels
<civodul>we won't be able to monitor the other channel
<civodul>s/we/i/ at least :-)
<tissevert>civodul: hey !
<tissevert>why tiny ?
<roptat>a lot less users, I suppose
<tissevert>that's temporary, people are going to move over time
<civodul>yeah, a quarter maybe?
<tissevert>oh that few ?
<tissevert>the user column in weechat is filled, so I was assuming everyone was there already since that's all I usually see ^^
<roptat>the scroll bar doesn't go as far on hexchat ;)
<tissevert>plus, there's so many more people than yesterday when we just got here with taylan and roptat
<tissevert>what scrollbar ? I said "weechat" didn't I ? : )
<roptat>sorry, I got a more convenient client :p
<tissevert>I should prolly do the same
<tissevert>I've never been able to use weechat correctly
*nckx .oO So I'm not the only one who was looking for than in HexChat. Just used the ChanList in the end.
<nckx>civodul: At least they're all human and active in the last month.
<nckx>tissevert: I'm still miffed that I was at work when the exciting land-rush began.
<nckx>I could have owned #guix and sold it to #bitcoin.
<tissevert>too bad…
<tissevert>don't worry, just wait for the next drama ; )
<tissevert>maybe in 20 years ? ^^
*nckx /joins #guix on another network for safe-keeping 😛
*nckx AFK.
<civodul>maybe we should have switch to one of these fancy things like Matrix
<civodul>though... would ERC still work? :-)
<tissevert>some nice people have mentioned Matrix and I'm giving it a try, there's way fewer people than here but it seems nice so far
<madage>if I may, I'd say that there is a line that can be draw between this and the rms debacle: a large/significant amount of very active and concerned individuals does not trust the direction/authority of some individual who seems to want things done their ways regardless of the opinions of others
<madage>my take on both cases is to side with the group, not the individual who wants sole authority and decision making
<madage>even though or precisely because I lack inside knowledge of the situation at hand
<tissevert>it's more a matter of «the ideas» rather than «the group», isn't it ?
<madage>certainly, but when the details or certainty of some info are lacking how do you decide who/what to trust?
<tissevert>hmmm I like the idea of a «chain of trust»
<dthompson>unfortunately for the new freenode owner, they have no cult of personality to rely upon.
<tissevert>some people happen to know more directly than I do some persons involved and can decide upon whom they trust, and I in turn can decide among who I choose to trust
<madage>I don't know many people directly, what I know is what people have been doing months or years back
<madage>and I use that as a form of establishing trust
<madage>I find it very hard to believe that a whole group of people who have been actively maintaining our commons suddenly and without any cause would decide to make nonsense petty decisions
<tissevert>madage: same
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<nckx>madage: Was my exact reason to ‘move’ (really: follow along with the name change).
<nckx>What's the Matrix equivalent of HexChat? Matrix's strong association with unusably slow (yep: I, too, have tried Element) Web 6.0 crapware is probably its main handicap when compared to IRC. While there are probably good clients too.
<tissevert>I heard it was possible to connect to matrix with weechat (but haven't tried yet)
<nckx>Yes, there's a Weechat plug-in! I'm not that hardcore though. On my laptop anyway, I want my gooey.
<tissevert>gooey ? I don't know it
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<pineapples>civodul: +1 in regard to Matrix; even if it wasn't the primary channel of communication, having an officially recognised one (perhaps bridged to this IRC chat room) would lower a barrier to entry for new and unexperienced users that, including me, find IRC unfriendly
<nckx>The Weechat Matrix plug-in needs to actually be built & all.
<nckx>pineapples: That already exists.
<nckx>Or, at least, -ed.
<nckx>It's still bridged to Freenode.
<roptat>hm, quick English grammar question, do you say "independent from" or "independent of"?
<nckx>pineapples: OK, it's confusing, there's also a different ‘#guix’ room operated by someone I don't know.
<nckx>Which is Matrix-only. Which splits the community, which is sad.
<tissevert>roptat: I'd say 'from' I suppose
<tissevert>nckx: I think that's the one I'm on, the one on ?
<roptat>that's what I would say, but not very confident. And you're French too :p
<tissevert>I know : (
<roptat>what's your home server on matrix?
<nckx>tissevert: Yes, some people are helpfully explaining Matrix to you so I can understand it too, very helpful.
<tissevert>well no one's perfect
<nckx>I don't understand the name ‘#guix’. Is that just a nod to the IRC one?
<parnikkapore>I'd say "independent from", but I think both is OK
<taylan>IMO "from" sounds a bit more correct but I'm no English teacher
<nckx>Disregard my last question.
<tissevert>roptat: I hoped you'd take my word for it ^^
<roptat>thanks :)
<tissevert> seems to show «from» to be more common, but occurrences with 'of' in the NY Times exist
<tissevert>in a context where indeed 'from' would've sounded weird, so I'd guess there's just a slight difference in meaning and cooccurrent terms
<nckx>roptat: What's the context?
<nckx>tissevert: Yes.
<tissevert>and it so happen that the 'from' context might be more frequent enough for it to sound more «idiomatic» to non-native speakers
<pineapples>nckx: Hmm. To clarify, I'm asking for a Matrix room officially endorsed by all prominent figures in our community, one that would be put up on and perhaps advertised in a future blog post regarding the migration from Freenode to Libera
<nckx>‘From’ to me implies a more genuine (for lack of a better word) independence from e.g. some authority, not like a variable is independent of some other. But it's extremely subtle and might not be universal.
<nckx>pineapples: Can't we bridge both?
<roptat>"the automaton recognizes traces independently from their semantics"
<nckx>*I*d say of. 🤷
<tissevert>yeah, 'of' too
<roptat>arg, but none of you are native speakers, right?
<tissevert>A independant from B means : «A could be / was a part of B» but it's not the case
<cbaines>I think of and from both work in that context
<nckx>roptat: …
<nckx>Yes 😛
<tissevert>«A independant of B» means «A doesn't depend on B»
<cbaines>I'd maybe prefer of
<roptat>ok, I'll go with of ^^'
<nckx>The ‘Rice’ part of my brain is, anyway.
<tissevert>…traces no matter what their semantics are : )
<cbaines>(if you use of, you could also substitute independenty with regardless)
<roptat>ah, that's a nicer word, thanks
<roptat>closer to what I mean :)
<parnikkapore>Yeah I'm not a native either
<apteryx>what is so slow about fetching CVE databases? their servers?
<apteryx>(via 'guix lint' for example)
<pineapples>nckx: Yes, we can. However, it must be clear for potential users which Matrix room we have authority over. Hence, I believe one has to be advertised (be it via a blog post or the website's "Contact" page) to build trust around it
<nckx>Agreed, and we don't have ‘authority’ (what a word) over the native room.
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<nckx>Hi lfam!
<lfam>Hey nckx, can you check your PMs?
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<nckx>lfam: Sometimes! But only barely.
<lfam>Okay, but right now, will you? :)
<nckx>...I already answered?
<lfam>Oh lol
<nckx>OK :)
<lfam>I didn't read it as a "message"
<lfam>All good
<nckx>Soon we can hand out guix/ cloaks again.
<nckx>Not like we ever did.
<pineapples>Where do I sign up to get one? :D
*civodul posted a crazy proposal:
<apteryx>civodul: hey, that seems like a good improvement, but why can't we go all-in and fully strip the labels out? I'd like less code rather than more code :-)
*apteryx doubles down on the crazy proposal
<apteryx>my only (ridiculous) fear would be loosing my git grepping abilities searching for commas ,package ;-)
<apteryx>we should make Geiser great again!
<civodul>heh :-)
<civodul>labels have to exist on the build side
<civodul>for cases where you need to refer to packages by name there
<civodul>so they have to be produced somewhere
<cbaines>I haven't fully read the proposal, but is this an incremental step towards the gexp based packages?
<civodul>we could eventually change package-inputs & co. to return a plain list of packages, but that'd have to be the last step of the whole conversion process
<civodul>cbaines: kindof
<civodul>it's related, though actually feasible even without that
<cbaines>ok :)
<civodul>cbaines: i too wonder why i didn't do it before :-)
<civodul>there are two things that make me feel safer about it today than a few years ago: gexps for packages, and self-referential packages (with 'this-package')
<ruffni>nckx: i imported srfi-9 but package-name is not defined. what else do i have to import to inspect package definitions?
<leoprikler>package-name is define in (guix packages)
<nckx>SRFI-9 just defines a format for records. Guix extends it in (guix records) but compatibly
<apteryx>civodul: changing keybord layout via the GUI doesn't seem to work in a vm-image.tmpl VM; could this be a side-effect of the declarative keyboard-layout?
<apteryx>or are these things expected to cohabit peacefully (e.g, changing layout in the GUI would be volatile and only stick until the next relogin)
<apteryx>civodul: yeah, my crazy proposal was to make all the required steps to get rid of the labels at once
<drakonis>now that its daytime again
<drakonis>i really want to do something about running other distributions inside guix, as a escape hatch of sorts
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<apteryx>mothacehe: if I view in a 1920/2 pixels width frame, there's some hamburger menu artifact at the top center of the page
<apteryx>that does nothing when clicked on
<apteryx>I have one Guix System machine with 259 days of uptime; pretty solid!
<Noisytoot>Where's sneek?
<taylan>Noisytoot: not migrated yet, I think because the person running it isn't around
<Noisytoot>What are input labels for?
<civodul>apteryx: how did you change keyboard layouts? using the Xfce tool?
<civodul>Noisytoot: they're a way to label package inputs so you can refer to them in build-side code
<pineapples>taylan: The other reason is that somebody claimed the bot's name, AFAIK
<lfam>Are you talking about sneek?
<nckx>pineapples: The owner.
<lfam>I was just wondering if we could get sneek here soon
<Noisytoot><Noisytoot> Where's sneek?
<Noisytoot><taylan> Noisytoot: not migrated yet, I think because the person running it isn't around
<nckx>It mainly depends on whether #guile follows #guix here. Same problem as Goggles: the duct tape was not applied with multiple networks in mind.
<Noisytoot>What's Goggles?
<nckx>So as long as #guile is in dubio, sneek won't be around.
<nckx>Noisytoot: The backend.
<lfam>nckx: later ask vagrantc: I want to update the "default" kernel to 5.12 today. Is there a pinebook pro patch for 5.12?
<nckx>I'm going to nip this in the bud, bud.
<nckx>‘No.’ 😛
<Noisytoot> seems to have switched to this channel
<roptat>yeah, because we control it
<nckx>Noisytoot: :)
<roptat>so we switched its logging to this network, and now it can't log anything from freenode
<nckx>Well, I tried to hack it up properly. I just gave up.
<nckx>Even tried bind-mounts inside bind-mounts.
<nckx>Didn't work. I wonder why!
<nckx>Noisytoot: So I just shoved the whole thing over, including #guile and #bootstrappable which hadn't officially moved yet.
<nckx>All old Freenode channels are still being logged, just not publicly.
<Noisytoot>Can't you have 2 logbots/sneeks?
<Noisytoot>1 for freenode, 1 for libera
<nckx>As I said, the bot logs both networks just fine. But I'm not interested in [doing the work to] make Goggles display logs for both channels. This is #guix; the other one no longer is.
<nckx>It's currently a ‘help I can't connect to’ help channel :)
<lfam>I wonder if anybody else has been using linux / linux-libre 5.12
<lfam>I started using right away and it's working fine for me
<nckx>Noisytoot: Conversely, I don't have any control over sneek, she's not even source-available last I asked :-/
<lfam>Welcome acrow
<nckx>Welcome acrow! \o/
<lfam>It's interesting that Guix will now be old enough to have vestigial communications channels where there may not be anyone who knows what they are talking about
<lfam>It's something I have always found annoying about old projects
<nckx>Now heed my warning in the other channel. Or don't. It's a free--no, let's not.
<nckx>lfam: That's why I think the last moderator to leave the old one should it invite-only.
<lfam>Should we cherry-pick your guix.texi commit to the version-1.3.0 branch? So that the new channel appears in the web-based manual?
<Noisytoot>nckx, The author released the source when I asked
*Noisytoot finds it
<lfam>(I think that's how it works)
<Noisytoot>It's somewhere on GitLab
<nckx>Noisytoot: Cool. I didn't ask for the source, only whether it was available somewhere & it wasn't then. I'm not volunteering to host an instance and hope we can just keep using the old one.
<nckx>lfam: That's a good idea but it invalidates translation.
<nckx>I'm in the better-right-in-English camp but just needed to point that out.
<lfam>Hm, does that matter? Only one word needs to be changed
<drakonis>oh, its a cow
<nckx>lfam: I don't follow.
<nckx>The whole sentence or more changes.
<nckx>You don't translate words.
<lfam>I think that, for most languages, this change can be done even if you don't know the language. It's only changing a proper noun
<lfam>So, we don't need to enlist the translators
<lfam>I don't really understand how all that works
<nckx>I think only roptat can actually do that in practice.
<nckx>I'm not sure either.
<lfam>roptat: What do you think? Can we do s/Freenode/ in guix.texi and deploy it to the version-1.3.0 branch?
<lfam>The idea is to make sure the online manual suggests the correct IRC server
<roptat>lfam, yeah, if you change the po files too
<nckx>I haven't done that.
<nckx>roptat: Is that done manually or by running a gettext command?
<lfam>roptat: The files in 'po/doc'?
<roptat>oh, I think you would need to update the pot file, run msgmerge on the po files, and then change the po file
<nckx>‘make’ complains about mismatched translations already & I don't want to add more.
<roptat>otherwise the change will not be taken into account
<roptat>that's because we use a single po file for two different texi files, and po4a is not happy, but that's fine
<lfam>Alright, I can send a patch to guix-patches
<roptat>(I think just s/Freenode/ on the texi manual and po/doc/*.po should work)
<civodul>did someone update the web site already?
<lfam>The "devel" manual is updated
<lfam>And website too
<civodul>yay, cool
<lfam>Is updating the version-1.3.0 branch the "right way" to update the online manual?
<roptat>I think so
<nckx>lfam: Yes.
<zimoun>nckx, neat. Thanks!
<zimoun>however, I note that I wrote exactly that logged as zimoun_kiwi from the Web interface proposed by and then it does not appears in the log. Hum?
<bone-baboon>I just tested memoserv on Libera and it is working. It could be used as an alternative to sneek for relaying messages until sneek joins #guix@Libera (if sneek joins). `/msg memoserv help`
<lfam>I sent a patch roptat
<roptat>lfam, thanks
<lfam>I'll also cherry-pick the change for the untranslated manual
<roptat>I think you can test it by running make, it should regenerate the translated manuals, then you can check say the French manual, see if it says anything about in French or if it failed and it says it in English
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<roptat>patch looks good
<nckx>zimoun: <however, I note that I wrote exactly that> Could you expand? The KiwiIRC frame at connects to Libera. Which line is missing from which channel on which network?
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<zimoun>yeah, I was connected with it (zimoun_kiwi :-)). It works pretty well. Couple of hours ago, before log out from Kiwi, I typed «nckx, neat! Thanks.» Modulo the punctation. ;-) And then scrolling the log, I note it is not in. Though, it was appearing in the Kiwi stuff. Does it make sense?
<nckx>I don't know if gettext cares, but if it produces weird error messages with identical-looking strings: note that I used a non-breaking space in ‘Libera Chat’, like we do for ‘GNU Guix’ in most places.
<nckx>lfam: ☝
<lfam>Oh, alright
<lfam>I'll adjust it
<nckx>IDC if Gettext is fine with it but wanted to spare your sanity.
<lfam>I don't know if it produced weird errors or not...
<lfam>It built
<lfam>Might as well use the fancy Unicode stuff
<nckx>C-x 8 <Space> in emacs. I dunno in vi, probably ‘:<a non-breaking space>’.
<roptat>oh, we don't see messages from unregistered users
<lfam>Copy and paste, nckx ;)
***ChanServ sets mode: +o nckx
<roptat>(I'm trying sending messages with PotentialUser-97)
***nckx sets mode: -q $~a
<nckx>PotentialUser-97: Say a thing.
***ChanServ sets mode: -o nckx
<PotentialUser-97>better now?
<nckx>Sorry about that. Left-over from the big bang.
<nckx>When spambots and skids ruled the ooze.
<PotentialUser-97>that wouldn't have been great for new users ^^'
<nckx>Here I was feeling all clever for remembering to update the Web chat X-(
<PotentialUser-97>that explains why zimoun's message was not logged
*nckx plays the world's smallest sad trombone.
<roptat>I'd like to set up a cron job on a server that updates weblate regularly, which server should I put that on?
<roptat>it needs to pull repositories, run a bunch of commands, and push the result
<roptat>I think I can manage writing the job for mcron, but will need someone to clone the repo initially on a server
<civodul>roptat: you can do something similar to static-web-site-service, which clones/updates the repo to ~/.cache
<civodul>you could have that run on bayfront, say
<roptat>ok, thanks
<roptat>also another thought, what about the configuration interface for a new static-network-service-type?
<roptat>should I try to keep it compatible with static-network-service, or can I change that entirely?
<civodul>maybe aim for the "ideal" interface in terms of expressivity and ease of use
<civodul>then we'll see whether/how we can make it compatible with the existing one
<roptat>mh, maybe something that maps interface name to a list of configurations (if you want multiple ips, etc)
<roptat>then, not sure if I should split a configuration into multiple "types", or if it should be an IP, a gateway, etc in one bloc
<roptat>maybe some generic fields, like the version of guile-netlink, requirement (default to udev as now), name-servers, ips (maps interface to ip addresses, either v4 or v6), gateway-address, and gateway-interface
<roptat>then it's relatively easy to extend, you could do something like (simple-service 'static-networking-service-type 'network-eth0 (static-networking-interface-configuration "eth0" '("" "2001::2536/56"))) or similar
<roptat>sounds like a plan :)
<bone-baboon>When I try to run `guix challeng --diff=diffoscope mesa` it gets stuck with an ETA of 39 days and does not progress. I have tried it several times and I get the same results (stuck at an ETA of around 39 hours). I have tested the internet connection and it is fine.
<ss2>Where are the config files for php-fpm placed? I can't find them..
<ss2>I have the service set up, and would like to see the result.
<roptat>ss2, in the store, somewhere...
<ss2>would it be linked from the service file?
<roptat>one way to find it is with "guix gc -R /run/current-system | grep php-fpm"
<roptat>one of the result is php-fpm.conf, in the store
<roptat>yes, that's how the service can find it: it actually runs with an option that hardcodes the path to the store directly
<ss2>found it.
<ss2>are the service files stored in the store as well? (well, everything is anyway)
<nckx>bone-baboon: I can't reproduce your exact situation because I don't have a local mesa build (and performing one would take ages), but are you sure it's doing nothing? Mesa is 142 MiB. diffoscope is very slow. Is your computer idle?
<jonsger>huhu guix@libera
<roptat>ss2, yes, everything is :)
<ss2>that line of yours to scan the store is really handy!
<bone-baboon>nckx: The guix challenge is the only thing the computer is doing. I have started it again and will leave it alone while it works on it. However it does seem to be getting stuck. Maybe I was being to impatient with it. I have challenged other large packages and not seen this behavior before.
<nckx>bone-baboon: ‘works’ as in it's using CPU time?
<apteryx>civodul: re keyboard layout in Xfce; yes, via the settings tool provided by the Xfce desktop
<apteryx>I've added an English (US) dvorak layout as the preferred layout (top of the layout stack in the menu), but asdf was still asdf, not aoeu ;-)
<nckx>bone-baboon: Manually running diffoscope on that store item took 1.7s here so I guess that's not it. But it might take shortcuts since all files are identical. It's taken multiple minutes on big directories before.
<jonsger>has someone an explanation why my system doesnt collect cores at /var/cores. See my configuration:
<bone-baboon>nckx: "works" as in I started the command and it has not yet finished. top shows me that it is using CPU and RAM.
<civodul>apteryx: could it be something silly like Xfce trying to invoke setxkbmap, which is not in $PATH?
<civodul>would be worth checking how this is implemented
<nckx>bone-baboon: The Guile/guix process itself? You could try stracing it.
<civodul>it works on GNOME, though i remember struggling
<nckx>To see if it's looping.
<apteryx>civodul: good idea! I need to get ahold of the binary name called behind the scenes
<nckx>jonsger: Things I can think of: ulimit -c being 0 (it's the maximum size and 0 is not magic); /var/cores/ does not exist or is not writable; the executable in question is setuid.
<apteryx>there's this: xfce4-keyboard-settings
<bone-baboon>nckx: top shows that diffoscope is what is using system resources (also Emacs). That reminds me of the bug I reported about strace failing to build bug#48094.
<nckx>Then nothing sounds wrong (yet!). Diffoscope simply does a lot of work.
<apteryx>(in python)
<nckx>Up to disassembly etc.
<bone-baboon>nckx: Thanks. I will wait for it.
<nckx>bone-baboon: I don't understand that strace test failure ENOENT is not ‘Bad address’; EFAULT is. Why is strace apparently expecting the wrong thing?
<hwpplayer1>I am GNU Geek I can hack anything Future is GUIX :D hi people!
<hwpplayer1>terpri: :) how are you doing ?
<bone-baboon>nckx: If I can help any more with bug#48094 let me know.
<terpri>hwpplayer1, recovering from covid-19 vaccination, but otherwise good (and happy to be done with that :)) how are you?
<hwpplayer1>I am having fun with the motto above
<nckx>bone-baboon: I don't think *I* can help, sorry.
<hwpplayer1>How to run GUIX with GNOME is my only question I wanted EXWM but anyways I will reach there
<apteryx>civodul: no dice looking at -e file or -e process output of strace, mmmh.
<apteryx>perhaps it uses D-Bus stuff
<hwpplayer1>I need Graphical Statiscal GUI interface for reports
<bone-baboon>nckx: Okay thanks
<hwpplayer1>Like Octave, R, Python etc
<hwpplayer1>TTY and terminal limits my effort
<hwpplayer1>When i try to install with GNOME i3 or Xfce4 i can not see any DE or WM
<hwpplayer1>Is it a bug ?
<nckx>hwpplayer1: The channel has an RStudio package. I don't know if it's up-to-date or well-tested, but it exists...
<nckx>(rekado might.)
<hwpplayer1>I am talking about just a GNOME is fine
<apteryx>civodul: dbus-monitor says so:
<hwpplayer1>or EXWM
<terpri>hwpplayer1, do you have %desktop-services in the services field of your operating system? that should enable gdm on boot-up
<hwpplayer1>I tried but I can install GUIX again
<hwpplayer1>Now running our alpha devel distro to test it
<nckx>OIC. You just want a DE, not a specific stats package.
<hwpplayer1>Yes sure
<hwpplayer1>I can handle rest of it packaging testing etc
<terpri>hwpplayer1, and adding (service gnome-desktop-service-type) to the services list will provide gnome as an option (or s/gnome/xfce/ if you prefer)
<hwpplayer1>GNOME is better
<hwpplayer1>For me
<hwpplayer1>We added
<nckx>Then what terpri says. You don't ever need to reinstall Guix, only reconfigure (maybe that's what you meant).
<hwpplayer1>So I will install GUIX again and be here
<hwpplayer1>Then please share the config with me
<hwpplayer1>I can run Linux libre without fail
<hwpplayer1>It that is the issue
<hwpplayer1>I can run Trisquel for example
<nckx>I don't use GNOME, but here's an example provided with Guix:
<nckx>What's relevant to you is the (services ...) part, without xfce.
<civodul>apteryx: that part seems to be good, no?
<apteryx>perhaps this: which points at some problem in libxklavier
<terpri>hwpplayer1, you don't need to install guix again, just edit /etc/config.scm (by default), then "sudo -Es guix system reconfigure /etc/config.scm" applies the configuration (but you might need to reboot afterwards, switching from terminal-only to a DE)
<terpri>er, sudo -E, not sudo -Es
<civodul>apteryx: doesn't gnome use libxklavier too?
<Carcaj0u>Hi, pretty new guix user, after following the System Crafters tutorial and I have had a dead key issue with my recent installation of GNU Emacs using GNU Guix since I installed it.
<Carcaj0u>My dead keys like backtick, tilde, and caret/circumflex or completely ignored by the guix-installed emacs while the older version installed using apt works fine.
<Carcaj0u>It seems to be a locale problem from the look of it.
<Carcaj0u>(Sorry if I interupting a conversation, IRC have no threads it seems ^^""" )
<ss2>uh, erc can be confused about connecting to channels that have the same name across different servers
<apteryx>civodul: apparently! (libgnomekbd)
<apteryx>mhh, the workaround suggested in the previously linked issue doesn't fix it for me, so it's perhaps unrelated
<civodul>Carcaj0u: hi! do you get locale warnings from other programs installed with Guix, such as guile?
<nckx>On Guix System you don't need ‘sudo -E’, just ‘sudo guix system reconfigure’.
<drakonis>silly third party guides
<drakonis>but more blood is good
<raghavgururajan>Hello Guix!
<rekado>drakonis: I still can’t speak on #bootstrappable
<rekado>do you happen to have ops there to fix the configuration?
<rekado>I guess that’s also why bayfront-log is not on the channel
<drakonis>yeah i'll ask about that
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<nckx>Hi Raghav.
<nckx>...and pineapples.
<nckx>Who was probably already here, but I've lost all sense of time.
<pineapples>Correct, but I appreciate your greeting. I was just welcoming Raghav :)
<bone-baboon>nckx: Challenging mesa worked it did not get stuck. I just had to give it more time.