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<buenouanq>what do these guys do?
<buenouanq>nm, sorry for asking before looking myself (;-___-)
<nckx>Prevent those modules from being loaded in the initrd, and hence your ‘PC’ speaker beeping, if you even have (or emulate) one.
<nckx>Appreciated but no biggie buenouanq.
<lfam>roptat: There's a variety of different commands, depend on the details of each video
<lfam>I'll transcode them here and make them available on my server
<lfam>E.g. some of the files are already in the right video format, but the audio format needs to be converted
<roptat>ok, thanks for your help!
<lfam>roptat: I'm curious, how will these files be presented to the audience? Does it make sense to offer both mp4 and webm?
<lfam>For example, like on the FOSDEM site? <>
<lfam>Or are these files going to be the source for a stream?
<lfam>I guess I'm worried about the icecat users
<roptat>it's supposed to be watched in advance, we won't stream them
<roptat>if you can encode them as webm too, it'll be great, I think the plan is to host them on later, so it'd be nice if they could already respect their constraints
<roptat>makes sense to have mp4 if it's better supported
<lfam>Sure, I'll prepare both copies
<lfam>Right, mp4 is supported "everywhere" ... except for icecat!
<lfam>That's my understanding, anyways. I'm not using icecat day-to-day
<lfam>Do you expect any more videos? Or is this the full set?
<roptat>that's the full set
<roptat>it works in icecat here though...
<roptat>except for the mkv files, where I can only download them
<lfam>The codec / container support situation is so sad
<lfam>mkv is a royalty-free format, but poorly supported. I guess the vendors prefer to pay
<lfam>I'm curious, do you have any gst-plugins-* or gstreamer packages installed in your profile, roptat? I've always been under the impression that users have to install them "by hand" to get support for the patented codecs
<leoprikler>lfam: for the record, it also works if you put gstreamer + plugins + target application into an environment (possibly containerized)
<lfam>Right, like an ephemeral profile
<lfam>Or a `guix pack`... ;)
<lfam>Anyways, easier to provide both mp4 and webm
<leoprikler>Does Icecat even use gstreamer tho?
<leoprikler>IIRC that's a webkitgtk/epiphany thing.
<roptat>lfam, nothing like that
<lfam>At least, it did at some point:
<lfam>I'm not using Guix System on the desktop so I don't have a lot of direct experience with Icecat
<roptat>I do have /gnu/store/ whitelisted entirely in about:config
<lfam>That issues link makes it seem like Icecat's media is handled by ffmpeg
<roptat>maybe that helps ^^
<lfam>So... does icecat search in /gnu/store then? Sounds busy :)
<roptat>no, I think it records the location, but it's not in the default sandbox path (or maybe it is now)
<roptat>guix size icecat | grep ffmpeg shows a reference
<buenouanq>how can I find/tell what module a package is in?
<lfam>`guix show foo` will include that info
<mroh>| grep location
<buenouanq>location: gnu/packages/admin.scm:1660:2 means it's in (gnu packages admin)
<mroh>lfam: Looks like a perfect day (weather and light etc) in your video! Very nice, ty!
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<lfam>That's not me mroh :)
<lfam>Maybe efraim?
<mroh>lfam: ah, ups, sorry than ;)
<sys2>is anyone aware of a workaround for this? My xmonad was working not too long ago
<zimoun>The link about Hurd and Binary on the Download/lastest webpage are 502. Is it expected?
<dn>I was thinking about switching to a complete free as in freedom os and I was wondering if there was a way to privatly backup personal files insted of something like github or gitlab
<dn>I was also wondering would a private repos for personal files be secure or encrypted
<bavier[m]1>dn: secure backups are certainly possible within the Guix System if that's the question.
<dn>Ok i was going to switch to guix from arch and I wanted to know if some cloud backup thing that was encrypted was avabile
<bavier[m]1>nothing integrated as a service with Guix, no.
<bavier[m]1>Guix has packages for backup software though like borg, rsync, duplicity, git-annex, rdiff-backup
<bavier[m]1>most of those can communicate with remote servers and do encryption on the host side.
<ryanprior>New in emacs-guix-packaging: the insert-input command now takes multiple packages, so you can give it "ruby@2.6.5,python@3.8.2" and it'll insert
<ryanprior>("ruby@2.6.5" ,ruby)
<ryanprior>("python@3.8.2" ,python-3.8)
<ryanprior>Also insert-input performance is greatly improved. It uses a cache of available Guix packages to cut down on I/O, which you can refresh using the guix-packaging-refresh-packages command if you've just changed packages.
<ryanprior>Plus, for those of us who modify our Guile load path for Guix commands, you can customize guix-packaging-extra-load-paths and it'll account for those.
<ryanprior> latest release is 1.2.0
<ryanprior>Thanks for the feedback on the package, it's been helpful :)
<r7st>anyone run guix on centos8? considering it to get over some repo limitations
<ryanprior>It should work on centos but I haven't tried it r7st.
<r7st>seems to be. testing in podman. i need things such as SDL2_image-devel available. seems like it might be part of sdl2 in guix?
<ryanprior>I see there's an sdl-image package, I'm not sure if that's the same thing as as SDL2_image
<r7st>i'll have to play around and see i think :)
<ryanprior>We don't have "devel" packages in Guix. When you run "guix build <pkg>" it automatically fetches the necessary sources.
<r7st>ah but i'm looking for dependencies to build something else
<ryanprior>sdl-image looks like it's what you want, but the latest version in guix is 1.2.12, while the latest upstream is 2.0.2
<ryanprior>If you run `guix environment sdl-image` it'll put you in a shell with all of sdl-image's deps, which might be helpful.
<shmore>i think he wants sdl2-image
<ryanprior>Oh I didn't notice there was an sdl2-image package, but indeed there is. That's probably what you want =D
<r7st>trying with just sdl2 now, which is installed
<r7st>(i need both)
<kozo[m]><r7st "anyone run guix on centos8? cons"> Running guix as a vm on centos 8?
<kozo[m]>I do
<r7st>ah i meant package manager
<r7st>not distro
<efraim>mroh, lfam: Yeah, it's still quite nice here. I joke we have fall, go straight to spring, then summer and second summer.
<seeg123>hello, anyone knows how to properly package haskell stack in guix?
<civodul>Hello Guix!
<cbaines>Morning civodul o/
<PotentialUser-65>hey guys, does anyone here use tor? if so how'd you set it up?
<civodul>ah, too late
<ngz>I just watched some talks for the online conference. This is interesting.
<ngz>The thing that puzzles me, however, is that we have two talks for two competing futures for Cuirass.
<cbaines>ngz, what do you see as the two different futures?
<ngz>If I get it right, in your video, you explain the design of Guix Build Coordinator, and how it will solve current Cuirass issues. That's the first one.
<ngz>Then, Mathieu explains in another video that Guix Build Coordinator will probably face the same issues as the current Cuirass design, and suggest a different design.
<ngz>Admittedly, I may have missed the point, tho.
<cbaines>So, I think it's true to say that I and Mathieu both said things about building packages for substitutes. But I didn't say anything about Cuirass specifically, and Mathieu was talking about a related thing he's working on to use in conjunction with Cuirass.
<cbaines>Does that make sense?
<ngz>I sort of understand that I missed the point, then :)
<cbaines>Well, this is a complicated area, and I don't think I did a great job in my talk of putting things in context
<cbaines>ngz, I think there are several options on the table in terms of technical approaches to try and improve substitute availability, but they're not "competing futures for Cuirass"
<ngz>cbaines: OK.
<ngz>In any case, this is exciting to see so much activity in what I would call the tooling around Guix.
<brown121407>Hi! Do any of you have problems when programming in C++ with ccls not recognizing cin, cout, vector etc. as members of the std namespace on Guix System?
<brown121407>A hello world program compiles just fine, but ccls complains through lsp-mode that there's not cout member in std. Same issue when using eglot as a lsp frontend
<efraim>bah, something happened to my network overnight and now I can't connect to my pine64
<efraim>certainly makes offloading much harder
<leoprikler>brown121407: do you have all of the dependencies in your programming environment? I don't have much experience with ccls, but I do from time to time use emacs in one environment while compiling/running in another
<leoprikler>of course were I to use some more advanced features of emacs like some repl or gdb that would fail
<brown121407>leoprikler, I don't use environments for this. I have all the things installed in my user profile (gcc-toolchain, ccls, emacs, emacs-ccls, emacs-lsp etc)
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<rekado_>sneek: later tell zimoun We have a few failures on wip-r:
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<roptat>hi guix!
<mroh>Hi roptat
<roptat>I remember there were some discussions about providing substitutes to Chinese users recently. I'd like to contact the person who sent us this message, to see if we can setup a mirror for the videos of the Guix Day, but I can't find their message anymore...
<roptat>because right now they're outside of China, so I expect them to be incredibly slow for Chinese viewers
<roptat>ah found it ^^
<roptat>pmy, is that you? (wild guess ^^)
<civodul>roptat: that's a great idea!
<civodul>just watched the talk by PurpleSym this morning, twas pleasant and insightful!
<civodul>i'll treat myself to a nice talk every couple of hours :-)
<civodul>the "workspace" command looks very nice
<PurpleSym>civodul: Thanks :)
<civodul>i guess your setup could be interesting to a wide scientific audience
<ngz>Recutils project now provides its Emacs major mode for editing recutils files as a GNU ELPA package named "rec-mode". At the moment, Guix extract this library from the whole Recutils source tree, as the "emacs-recutils" package. Would it make sense to deprecate this "emacs-recutils" package in favor of the new "emacs-rec-mode" from GNU ELPA?
<ngz>Yes, I have the same feeling :)
<civodul>hi ngz! if that's the new way to obtain rec-mode, i'd say go for it
<civodul>same feeling as who? :-)
<ngz>as anyone that didn't answer ;)
<ngz>Anyway, it is not a new way to obtain rec-mode. It is another way.
<ngz>This boils down to the recent source vs GNU ELPA discussion. The latter is easier to write and update, but some users rightfully prefer the former.
<civodul>i guess until now rec-mode.el was officially distributed as part of recutils
<civodul>ah, dunno
<civodul>to me the main question is whether rec-mode.el has its own release pace, independent of recutils
<civodul>in which case, we should fetch it from ELPA
<civodul>otherwise, if it's just a mirror, then the status quo is fine IMO
<ngz>I don't know yet if both have the same release pace.
<ngz>I will watch for it.
<civodul>cbaines_: i wanted to reconfigure bayfront because i need a fix for hpcguix-web that's in master
<civodul>however, we'd also need to switch to "declarative ACLs"
<civodul>perhaps something to ask on guix-sysadmin?
<cbaines_>I don't think I'm doing much with bayfront at the moment
<cbaines_>I don't think bayfront is doing a lot either
<cbaines_>switching to the declarative ACL is probably fine I guess, but you could always add the option to stick with the current ACL as well
<civodul>yeah but it's a good opportunity to clean up our mess ;-)
<civodul>i'll email the list, we'll see
<rekado_>the logo at says “16-22 November”, but isn’t it really just the 22nd?
<civodul>nckx: thanks for making cyber-secure!
<civodul>rekado_: yes, but videos are released on the 16th, so...
<civodul>you think that's misleading?
<leoprikler>btw is it just me or are those videos stuck when playing them just with gst-play?
<roptat>which command provides gst-play?
<leoprikler>it's actually gst-play-1.0, but I abbreviate it to gst-play in my head always
<roptat>ah, gst-plugins-base actually
<roptat>with gst-plugins-good, it plays the webm version correctly, but even with -bad and -ugly, the video seems to be missing
<roptat>(I have audio, but WARNING No decoder available for type 'video/x-h264)
<roptat>but maybe it's specific to one video?
<leoprikler>seems like that
<leoprikler>"GNU Guix in psychology research and teaching" is the one that fails for me
<leoprikler>note, that I have all plugins in my profile, so even if it needed gst-libav I'd have it
*civodul watched it with mpv
<civodul>roptat: it just occurred to me that you could also upload the videos to IPFS, and that might more easily go across the great firewall (among other advantages)
<civodul>"guix install go-ipfs && ipfs init && ipfs add *.webm", roughly
<roptat>is it safe to run as root?
<roptat>probably, there doesn't seem to be any process running after ipfs add finishes
<roptat>added QmbyvyiKEP1d7GNrcmLLrwodBN6X9oiibN5CJG8KSSZVX1 guix-days-2020-christopher-baines-guix-build-coordinator.webm
<roptat>does it work?
<roptat>looks like it's working :)
<civodul>i hadn't used it in a while and i get "ipfs repo needs migration"
<civodul>(which makes me thing we're doing a good job in terms of error messages and hints :-))
<civodul>$ ipfs cat QmbyvyiKEP1d7GNrcmLLrwodBN6X9oiibN5CJG8KSSZVX1 |sha256sum
<civodul>83707f3c32b8355b0d1f64416f2af33501de247b6b74222f0b56803ea20e0271 -
<civodul>roptat: looks like it works?
<mroh>yes, works:
<roptat>alright, I have QmbyvyiKEP1d7GNrcmLLrwodBN6X9oiibN5CJG8KSSZVX1, QmPsWu9QZec4SanvDKV2kghfUk2VLAXgay9EX3Vnt9SL1a, QmVqFw9xxoMAT4NGccrxDoDgrguBK3mPvjhwDhAkmnVLzh, QmWWubjA2JJR9t7HiAerEYGMf3cD3a8sQAgW8Ex9ZC1iZo, Qmao7SDaDEBUBXQM9S8YTRmVVVqQMC9RuGMdhEvkZCTNib, Qme9zQy6UrANh6uSE1zAKtKWBHUaLZYTJwFEiNN5eRB3uQ and QmPxASuLDYVhqPDVPRvh6noBpkvn67FD3hvx29woYYY58s
<roptat>missing one because lfam haven't transcoded Andrew's talk to webm yet
<roptat>how should we advertise them?
<civodul>roptat: you could amend the post maybe?
<roptat>yes, I mean, what should the link look like?
<civodul>is there a URI scheme for IPFS?
<civodul>yeah, not sure
<zzappie>its usually just ipfs://hash/path
<civodul>ah right
<roptat>so ipfs://QmbyvyiKEP1d7GNrcmLLrwodBN6X9oiibN5CJG8KSSZVX1 ?
<roptat>icecat doesn't seem to like it
<roptat>it redirects me to my search engine
<mroh>for access to ipfs via browser we can use "ipfs gateways":
<leoprikler>you could probably rewrite those urls with an addon or plugin
<zzappie>yes it only supposed to work like that with browser extensions gateways used otherwise. But I think they can be blocked as any other website
*civodul just watched mothacehe's talk
<civodul>you could feel despair but also a strong will to overcome that :-)
<civodul>very cool
<roptat>mh... I'm trying to open localhost:8080/ipfs/QmbyvyiKEP1d7GNrcmLLrwodBN6X9oiibN5CJG8KSSZVX1 but it redirects me to a subdomain of localhost which doesn't exist...
<roptat>so I don't understand... do I add a link to the public gateway, ipfs://, something else?
<roptat>should it be ipfs://hash or ipfs://ipfs/hash?
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<mdevos>roptat: if I remember correctly, the IPFS companion plugin redirects links to the public gateway to the local gateway (if enabled)
<mdevos>roptat: but it has been quite some time ago
<roptat>I have ipfs daemon running, and localhost:8080/ipfs/QmbyvyiKEP1d7GNrcmLLrwodBN6X9oiibN5CJG8KSSZVX1 seems to do something: it redirects to http://bafybeigkwtimg7cr25vmmufyhxiupynir5rqldpsh6vwo7yfu3nk7on55q.ipfs.localhost:8080/
<roptat>but that doesn't exist
<seeg123>hello, i'm trying `guix import crates bottom`, the generated piece of code is quite raw, i need to add '(define-module` etc and packages are missing because the version is not there, eg. there is no 'rust-backtrace' in guix but there is 'rust-backtrace-0.3'. Any tips on how to make this import more self-contained?
<roptat>or maybe I should configure my /etc/hosts somehow to say *.localhost ->
<roptat>seeg123, try with --recursive
<apteryx>civodul: has your C-x v l recovered since the workaround pushed by Christopher/Miguel? :-)
<wehlutyk>Hello guix!
<wehlutyk>I'm trying to get a python program to work, which use pyside2 and QtSvg
<wehlutyk>but the QtSvg module does not seem to be activated in python-pyside-2, and I can't figure out why
<civodul>apteryx: don't know yet because i'm mostly on version-1.2.0 :-)
<civodul>i chose not to set up a worktree so i have to remain focused
<civodul>(not sure if it's working as intended tho)
<wehlutyk>the latest ci x86_64 build log says it's skipped as not found:
<roptat>wehlutyk, maybe QT_PLUGIN_PATH is missing?
<alextee[m]>what's the status of guix on pinephone atm?
<apteryx>civodul: haha
<wehlutyk>roptat: that's possible. I'll rebuild locally to see. What I don't understand is that the log says it does look for Qt5Svg cmake files in `/gnu/store/7f809f0bhirn1vad1rr3srxk2c7qqang-qtsvg-5.14.2/lib/cmake/Qt5Svg`, which on my system is present and has cmake files (I'm assuming it's the output created by `qtsvg` on the ci machine)
<roptat>maybe you need to look at the log file from cmake (not just its output) to understand why it decides it's not present
<wehlutyk>I'm struggling with `guix build`: what can I use to force a rebuild and see those logs?
<civodul>wehlutyk: "guix build xyz --log-file" should give you the log, even if it's a remote log
<civodul>maybe "--log-file --no-grafts"
<divoplade>You can also use --check to force a re-build
<civodul>right, the only reason to do that being to check for sources of non-reproducibility
<wehlutyk>civodul: that leads me to a one-liner about grafting python-pyside-2
<wehlutyk>ah yes
<wehlutyk>sorry, hadn't seen --no-grafts
<seeg123>ok --recursive did help a bit roptat however I still have bunch of undefined 'rust-bottom' entries, I guess this is because (use (guix packages crates-io)) imports them with version: rust-bottom-0.3. Any idea how can I provide an alias to the latest version?
<roptat>add --keep-failed and cancel the build after the configure phase, and you'll get the content of the sources and build files in /tmp
<seeg123>I did (define rust-bottom rust-bottom-0.3) by hand but it's tedious
<roptat>seeg123, that's what I was about to suggest
<seeg123>and seems that guix import can smartly figure out what's needed from what not (defines package for rust-cargo-husky which is not there, but doesn't define one for rust-backtrace)
<roptat>though "rust-bottom" on the cli (with guix build, guix install, etc) should already refer to rust-bottom-0.3 if that's the latest
<seeg123>well, it says it's not there
<roptat>don't you have (name "rust-bottom") in your package definition?
<seeg123>and guix repl with ,use (gnu packages crates-io) also has only rust-bottom-0.3 and not rust-bottom
<seeg123>no i don't have that name, even with recursive
<roptat>the repl uses variable names, so it's expected
<seeg123>* it's not rust-bottom, it's rust-backtrace for example
<seeg123>i mean a rust package which is arleady in guix
<roptat>but when you import a package with a version, I'd expect it to have the name of the package, not a name+version
<seeg123>so what should i import? (use (gnu packages crates-io)) ?
<roptat>well, for instance rust-backtrace-0.3 has "rust-backtrace" as its name, so from the repl you need rust-backtrace-0.3, but from the cli rust-backtrace is enough
<seeg123>i invoke: guix build -f myfile.scm
<seeg123>and it throws errors
<seeg123>maybe a different command is needed?
<roptat>ah because in myfile.scm, you need to use the variable names
<roptat>not the package name
<seeg123>ah ok so how should i build this then?
<roptat>you can also do something like (specification->package "rust-backtrace") instead of specifying the version, that'll use the latest
<roptat>but that also means, if we update rust-backtrace to an incompatible version, it'll fail to build
<roptat>so the easiest way is to use the version number: rust-backtrace-0.3
<seeg123>but why doesn't guix import use version already? i mean it generates .scm code
<seeg123>maybe i'm doing the packaging in some wrong way?
<roptat>oh, the output of guix import is wrong?
<seeg123>the output is without the version
<seeg123>just try `guix import cargo bottom`
<seeg123>you'll see `rust-backtrace` referenced without the version
<roptat>I suppose that's a bug
<seeg123>i don't know if it's wrong, but when it is run with --recursive, it correctly adds only crates which aren't in guix, so 'rust-backtrace' isn't added as a package, however it still doesn't have the version
<seeg123>well, ok then, so another question: since i have this all set up with --recursive, can i somehow list all the guix packages without the version in one go? it takes couple of seconds to report an error via guix build, with 4k lines I won't finish fixing versions too fast :)
<roptat>ok, there's a patch series that's under review, it's related to versions and stuff already, so maybe it'll help, or maybe you found something that could be added to the series
<roptat>I would create a module from that file and let guile load it to tell me which variables are undefined
<roptat>you could move your file to something like modules/myfile.scm, and start it with (define-module (myfile)) (same as the filename)
<roptat>then use something like guix build -L modules rust-bottom
<roptat>I think you'll see some warnings the first time, including some "potentially undefined variable" warnings
<seeg123>ok thank you i'll try to work on that
<apteryx>The convention is to not use [ ] in place of ( ) in the Guix code base, correct?
<dustyweb>apteryx: Racket influence? ;)
<dustyweb>(for context, Racket syntax is like:)
<dustyweb>(let ([x (* n 100)]) ...)
<dustyweb>well, racket convention
<dustyweb>oh ha
<dustyweb>also I see an email from civodul calling me out on having spent time in racket affecting my code :)
<leoprikler>You must cleanse yourself from the squares. Become soft, gentle…
<dustyweb>heh :)
<dustyweb>leoprikler: and here I thought they were making me look sharp ;)
<dustyweb>I guess I'll go for well rounded instead ;)
<leoprikler>Perhaps they do, but when you see sharp in programming, usually nothing good happens.
<dustyweb>civodul: if you could clarify my question about your renaming session I can get this wrapped up today... but it's not urgent :)
<zimoun>The link about Hurd and Binary on the Download/lastest webpage are 502. Is it expected?
<sneek>Welcome back zimoun, you have 1 message!
<sneek>zimoun, rekado_ says: We have a few failures on wip-r:
<zimoun>rekado_: Thanks. Roel is also working on the Bioconductor update.
<zzappie>roptat: ipfs daemon does same thing for me (: only workd with
<zimoun>rekado_: hum? the failure seems a IO failure of Berlin because the last line of the log is “DelayedArray/man/extra” at the unpack phase I guess.
<wehlutyk>so, rebuilding `python-pyside-2` with `"-DCMAKE_FIND_DEBUG_MODE=ON"` now says `Checking file [/gnu/store/7f809f0bhirn1vad1rr3srxk2c7qqang-qtsvg-5.14.2/lib/cmake/Qt5Svg/Qt5SvgConfig.cmake]` (which exists), then `- optional module Qt5Svg skipped. Looked in: /gnu/store/7f809f0bhirn1vad1rr3srxk2c7qqang-qtsvg-5.14.2/lib/cmake/Qt5Svg`. Any hints for troubleshooting this?
<dustyweb>civodul: also! thank you for taking the time to reply
<zimoun>civodul: the package Gmsh is not available (for version-1.2.0) but it builds, for example on Bayfront, or my laptop. I guess it comes from a Berlin IO troubles. Is it possible to re-launch the build?
<maav>zimoun, roptat: could you take a look at #44709? it's a patch for the banner, as it currently cannot be fully translated :-)
<maav>it's pretty trivial, but i want your ok beforehand
<zimoun>maav: Sorry. Yeah LGTM.
<zimoun>even if I thought that the first G_ was doing the job
<maav>zimoun: no problem at all, i noticed because the last translation had "Learn more" as a literal
<maav>also, thanks for your effort and your fast review :-)
<zimoun>maav: con gusto, companero :-)
<jonsger>hm, it seems not possible to have a nginx server listen on port 80 and having successfull renewals of lets encrypt certificates
<demotri>jonsger: Hm. I can't remember exactly, but I had some trouble with that too. I had to use some tricks, but can't remember exactly.
<divoplade>You need to never run certbot yourself, only run /var/lib/certbot/renew-certificates
<divoplade>If you registered your certificate with certbot, it will not work as intended with guix
<demotri>Should we get the Guix-Day videos on IPFS?
<roptat>demotri, they are already of IPFS
<demotri>roptat: :-)
<roptat>I updated the announcement this morning to add the links (see the details of each talks, there's a link for mp4, webm and webm through ipfs)
<demotri>roptat: Do you have the hashes? I just uploaded my downloads.
<demotri>Ah, cool.
<roptat>for instance
<zimoun>roptat: cool! Yesterday I did some experiments to distribute the video via “guix install” :-) As we talked about on Sunday. Then I thought about the recent “Community“ webpages… Well, it could be worth to add a build-system and a schannel… I will send an email to discuss such weirdness. ;-)
<demotri>roptat: Very nice, thank you.
<roptat>and Andrew's talk which was missing from the website:
<roptat>(it's updated, but it'll take some time before the website is re-generated)
<nckx>civodul: Glad to help. Like you, I'm waiting for a reconfiguration (but not a pull) to make it persistent.
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<nckx>apteryx: What's the difference between [] and ()?
<jonsger>demotri: it works now, with disabling port 80. But you don't have a http -> https redirection...
<nckx>Self-answer: none, but some claim it's ‘readable’. That's dubious.
<nckx>I find it less so.
<nckx>jonsger: Why not?
<divoplade>jonsger, I did not tag you in my answer so I don't know if you missed it or found it useless
<luis-felipe>What does BoF stand for? (in the GuixDays schedule context)
<nckx>Birds of a feather (flock together).
<divoplade>I had similar problems, and I deleted my whole /etc/letsencrypt, and re-issued certificates with /var/lib/certbot/renew-certificates and now I have the redirections at least
<nckx>luis-felipe: Semi-organised discussion within groups of like-interested people.
<divoplade>For a moment I thought BoF sessions were midly interesting sessions
<luis-felipe>nckx: Thanks, I didn't understand "Birds of a feather (flock together)" either :)
<nckx>I had to ask too. I keep reading it as BOFH sessions.
<luis-felipe>As a blog reader, I'd like it if these acronyms and abbreviations had help text, but I don't know if markdown allows for that. For example: <abbr title="Breath of Fire">BoF</abbr>
<nckx>luis-felipe: HTML is valid markdown.
<nckx>If it doesn't work the parser's buggy.
<luis-felipe>Ah, great then.
<luis-felipe>It's a shame Jérémy's video got published. He got something on his nose all the time, and I think he didn't notice.
<roptat>we published it anyway to publicly shame him ;)
<zimoun>luis-felipe: I guess they does that to avoid facial recognition.
<zimoun>roptat: if I send a patch to improve the BoF explanation, could you publisj it?
<lfam>Let me know if you hear of anyone having trouble watching the videos. My goal is for them to be viewable on any device
<zimoun>nckx, luis-felipe: sorry about BoF. Even if nckx raised couple of weeks ago, I forgot since it is a really well-known stuff in conferences. I have applied my bias. :-)
<nckx>No problem. I agree that an <abbr> would be good here (but as some know I'm a <abbr>/@acronym fanboy ;-).
<zimoun>nckx: how this work? because I have added it and the local serve shows nothing
<nckx>You mean it's not rendered into the final HTML at all?
<nckx>I'd need to look up how to build the Web site again to test it unless you have a quick-step guide.
<zimoun>luis-felipe: BTW, the meaning of BoF was explained: “ The term BoF means open discussion to address prospects.“
<zimoun>nckx: cat README in guix-artwork/website ;-)
<zimoun>I fixed it some weeks ago. Now it should be easy to build it
<nckx>Oh, that's (great) news.
<nckx>Thanks for that.
<maav>roptat: sorry, i was preparing another one and generating the web to fix Overview link, to push them together 0:)
<maav>thanks for pushing it
<roptat>zimoun, sure
<nckx>zimoun: It's building. This will take a while; I'm currently downloading glibc-locales @100kBps.
<zimoun>nckx: do not miss GUIX_WEB_SITE_LOCAL=yes
<nckx>Nono ☺
<nckx>Your dox are clear.
<zimoun>maybe you are downloading glic-locales because "glibc-locales” in the manifest.
<nckx>Probably because I use a custom locale definition for my OS so it's not cached. Anyway, it's done now, and that was the only download.
<roptat>I tried to add an <abbr>, but it's rendered as text
<nckx>Which Markdown parser do we use?
<zimoun>roptat: yeah me too. It is because the CommonMark or haunt use does not support inline HTML.
<zimoun>now, I remember, I had a lot of troubles. ~~strike~~ is not supported for example.
<zimoun>the table neither, IIRC (from 2 nights ago ;-))
<luis-felipe>Oh, it is CommonMark.
<luis-felipe>guile-commonmark: «the main difference [with the CommonMark spec] is no support for parsing block and inline level HTML»
<nckx>guix environment: error: mount: mount "mqueue" on "/tmp/guix-directory.edrxB9//dev/mqueue": No such device
<zimoun>to be exact haunt depends on guile-commonmark
<nckx>No Web site for me.
<nckx>luis-felipe: Hah. ☹
<nckx>That's... unfortunate.
<zimoun>nckx: what does this error mean?
<zimoun>does it come from --container in the environment?
<nckx>zimoun: That guix environment -C hard-codes far too many unnecessary assumptions about the running kernel. I can't imagine mqueue being needed here, it should just ignore its absence.
<zimoun>ok, just remove the -C so :-) I am doing that because… you want, mess happens ;-)
<luis-felipe>I get this error when trying to build the website: guix environment: error: stat: No existe el fichero o el directorio: "/home/yo/.guix-profile/lib/locale"
<nckx>(And I'm writing this from a perfectly running Guix System ☺)
<nckx>zimoun: What does ‘you want, mess happens’ mean?
<luis-felipe>It builds without -C
<zimoun>btw, could you open a bug report for the error you get?
<nckx>zimoun: Ah. So removing -C wouldn't cause subtle bugs? Good to know.
<nckx>zimoun: I'll try to fix it first. My custom kernel, my problem.
<zimoun>luis-felipe: are you running Guix System or Guix on foreign distro?
<luis-felipe>Guix System
<zimoun>and which kernel?
<zimoun>nckx: hehe, sure :-)
<nckx>Anyway, since basic markdown is officially unsupported, little point in further ‘testing’.
<luis-felipe>How do I know?
<nckx>uname -r
<zimoun>uname -a
<nckx>The ‘a’ is for ‘all the stuff you don't need’ though.
<luis-felipe>Both commands, build and serve, fail with the -C option. Both work without it.
*luis-felipe now can test a patch for the info banner.
<zimoun>luis-felipe: ah it is because on Guix System, the locales are different, I guess.
<zimoun>the --share= and -E is probably different than on Guix-on-foreign.
<zimoun>roptat: I will not send a fix because I do not see what to fix. :-) 4 lines below: «The term BoF means open discussion to address prospects.» Aside the accronym, I do not see how to improve. And following this argument of accronym: “Fixing the CI“ is problematic too (that’s why the term «continuous integration» appears in the description). Anyway. :-)
<luis-felipe>zimoun: Since guile-markdown does not support HTML, I think it is OK to leave it as it is right now. But I still think it is a good practice to add the meanind to the first occurrence of an acronym in every page of the website.
<luis-felipe>The current explanations for both BoF and CI are found only if you are reading the whole text, not when you are skimming through.
<nckx>Using BoF without explaining what it stands for makes the reader feel like they're missing the key concept. Even if we explains what it ‘means’ in different words.
<nckx>That said, I can't make much of ‘open discussion to address prospects’ either.
<luis-felipe>What about simply "discussion"?
<zimoun>luis-felipe: I agree. No one did the remark of CI because it is well-known in the community. I thought that BoF was too. It is used in Debian for example. And even in really formal conferences (ACM SIGGRAPH for instance).
<luis-felipe>Honestly, when I read BoF, I thought it was that those videos were not complete/available yet. Since I didn't see the abbreviation explained, I didn't bother to look it up.
<luis-felipe>Haunt supports other formats for posts though, just in case some future post requires more complex HTML.
<zimoun>nckx: just to get your point for the next time. :-) You propose to write something like: BoF stands for Birds of a Feathers flock together, which said to mean that people from the same group or with the same interests like to be with each other, then here the term BoF means open discussion to address prospects.
<cbaines_>I have strong thoughts on CI, I think it means something different to what I think that talk is about.
<cbaines_>To me, CI and Guix means looking at how we merge patches, and treat branches like staging and core-updates, it's about how we continuously integrate changes (hence CI)
<cbaines_>I think CI for Guix can be improved, and to me that would look like staging/core-updates being less effort to handle
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<zimoun>cbaines_: I will not talk instead of mothacehe. I think CI refers to
<cbaines>You're right, that's a Guix specific meaning where CI ->
<zimoun>yeah, and I am sometimes confused to :-)
<zimoun>Why ‘guix time-machine --commit=c9a656a5d0 -- build gmsh -d’ effectively builds the derivation? Is it a bug or I am doing something wrong?
<cbaines>-d on the end means I want a derivation
<cbaines>that derivation will include the grafting process though, so it'll build gmsh as part of computing that derivation
<cbaines>zimoun, what are you trying to get?
<zimoun>cbaines: damned grafts trap! :-) Thanks.
<samplet>I have Cuirass set up to build one derivation. It says “build succeeded: …” then “success:0, fail: 1”. In the database, the build has status -2 (scheduled). :S
<civodul>hey samplet!
<samplet>civodul: Hi! Can you guess what I’m working on? :)
<civodul>oooh, CI for The Archive?
<civodul>we've gotta help you get Cuirass up'n'running!
<civodul>though like everyone i have a love-hate relationship with it
<cbaines>what archive is this?
<samplet>That would be great. I’m a couple of hours in and my eyes are going crossed.
<brettgilio> Do we have this packaged? I searched for it but i'm not seeing anything. However, it seems unlikely to me that we wouldnt have it already
<zimoun>cbaines: Tarball Heritage :-)
<civodul>samplet: so there's a mismatch between the actual status and the one Cuirass displays?
<cbaines>zimoun, right :)
<zimoun>cbaines: well I guess :-)
<samplet>To me, the build succeeds, because the output is generated. Cuirass never seems to update its database, though.
<cbaines>The Guix Build Coordinator could also be an option, that might make it easy to do fun stuff with the outputs of builds
<civodul>samplet: yeah, if you build it behind its back, it doesn't notice
<mbakke>brettgilio: see 'json-modern-cxx' (we should consider renaming or aliasing it)
<brettgilio>mbakke +1 on an alias
<samplet>Yeah, I was hoping “update-build-statuses!” would do something about that.
<samplet>Either way, even if Cuirass does the build, it still never figures out that it succeeded.
<samplet>(I’m assuming that when it write “build succeeded” to the log it’s because it observed the build succeed.)
<samplet>After printing the success message, it should run “set-build-successful!”, and everything should be fine.
<brettgilio>Thanks btw mbakke
<mbakke>brettgilio: np! perhaps adding nlohmann somewhere in the description will suffice?
<brettgilio>mbakke I will make some change, yeah. It is not obvious that it exists
<brettgilio>I'm now wondering why Looking for pthread_create in pthreads - not found is happening. Isnt pthread_create part of glibc?
<brettgilio>nvm figured it out, was my mistake
<luis-felipe>Woah! .haunt-real is eating my RAM (>900 MB)
<mbakke>hmm, I made some changes to my notmuch tagging rules, and now I suddenly have much less unread emails ... not sure if bug or feature! :P
<civodul>samplet: you could check /var/log/cuirass.log, which is a reliable way to view what Cuirass thinks is happening
<civodul>luis-felipe: that's when building the whole web site?
<civodul>i use GUIX_WEB_SITE_LOCAL=yes locally
<luis-felipe>When serving it.
<civodul>but i've noticed that building the whole thing takes ages on berlin
<civodul>when serving it? weird
<civodul>there's a bug :-)
<luis-felipe>Serving it using the instructions in the website/README
<nckx>zimoun`: Something like that. By the way, if you were implying that I had a different opinion about ‘CI’, I don't. It could also use some explanation, especially since we use it in a very Guix-specific way. (Or if the talk is about doing ‘real CI’ instead, that's interesting enough to note too.)
<samplet>Aha! “EXP evaluation is deferred and will only be run once the worker evaluation queue [is] full.” It looks like the update is being deferred.
<samplet>Yup. Using “with-db-writer-worker-thread/force” in “db-update-build-status!” makes it work. I’m not sure what the trade-offs are there.
<zimoun`>nckx: I am not implying :-) Just noting that no one raises about CI at first read AFAIK and only about BoF. Well, I am trying to understand the other points of view to improve. At least for future rounds. :-) And I get yours. Thanks for the explanations.
<samplet>I guess my CI server building one derivation is insufficiently busy. :)
<cbaines>samplet, this is you trying to build fixed output derivations, so you can store the resulting tarballs, right?
<lfam>mbakke: Thanks for asking that question on oss-sec. It's useful to read the responses
<mbakke>civodul: I'm not comfortable adding #:log-file to the elogind service so late in the release cycle, so I'll instead just make SDDM depend on elogind
<mbakke>lfam: yes, that thread exceeded my expectations :)
<samplet>cbaines: Not quite. I will extract metadata from the tarballs and then store that.
<cbaines>samplet, OK. Have you considered using the Guix Build Coordinator for this? You can run some arbitrary Guile code when builds succeed, which might be useful to do that metadata extraction
<lfam>Thanks for taking care of the old wireguard tools nckx
<jonsger>mbakke: what problem is this fixing?
<nckx>I'll be dropping them soon. You use'm?
<nckx>lfam: ☝
<lfam>No nckx, I don't use them
<lfam>But it's good to have a working package before removal
<lfam>Do you think we should drop them? linux-libre 5.4 will be around for 5 more years
<samplet>cbaines: That could be interesting. I really don’t know much about the Build Coordinator.
<nckx>I mean dropping my last user.
<mbakke>jonsger: #44669 (harmless, but can look scary)
<nckx>If it doesn't become a maintenance burden it should be relevant for a long time. When was it merged? 5.7?
<civodul>mbakke: sounds good; for version-1.2.0 it's definitely more reasonable to do it that way
<samplet>I was hoping to find the source tarballs from packages (similar to how our “sources.json” is made), and then create Cuirass jobs based on that.
<cbaines>samplet, it's a service for building derivations, and doing useful stuff around that.
<cbaines>samplet, getting it to build things should be easier than Cuirass (at least in my experience), and I think it'll set you up well for doing stuff with the build results (providing you can work with nar files)
<lfam>nckx: It was added in 5.6. I believe the first long-term supported kernel that contains it will be 5.10
<samplet>cbaines: I’ll take a closer look at it. Nothing is set in stone yet. Thanks!
<nckx>lfam: All right. No, I don't plan on removing it before it breaks or not a single Guix kernel can use it.
<cbaines>samplet, the README contains some instructions on playing about with it locally and I'm always happy to try and help or answer questions
<lfam>Likewise nckx
<samplet>cbaines: Is it intended to replace Cuirass more generally? (I get that vibe from the README.)
<luis-felipe>"haunt serve -w" is what triggers the RAM bug, "haunt serve" works fine.
<cbaines>samplet, you might be able to use it instead of Cuirass for some things, but that's more because both tools ask the Guix Daemon to build derivations at one point or another
<cbaines>samplet, there's no concept of specifications or evaluations in the Guix Build Coordinator, it just builds things
<cbaines>and in some way it doesn't even do that. It just manages asking the Guix Daemon to build derivations
<samplet>It definitely looks easier to work with.
<nckx>Good night all o/
<lfam>C ya
<brettgilio>Goodnight nckx
<brettgilio>Hey all quick question. Which canonical GCC is cmake-build-system using? I am getting a lot of errors with std::filesystem, and am not sure the best way to work around i
<brettgilio>Before GCC 8, filesystem is <experimental/filesystem>
<brettgilio>however, when I explicitly set GCC 8 (to see what happens) the linker gets angry, std::filesystem::__cxx11::operator==(std::filesystem::__cxx11::path const&, std::filesystem::__cxx11::path const&)
<zimoun`>cbaines: following my message 1 minutes ago about dates and Data Service, I am checking the code to try to fix. The correct file dealing with guix-commits is branch-updated-emails.scm right?
<cbaines>zimoun`, yeah, that's what does the insert-git-branch-entry bit
<cbaines>zimoun`, I'm still not quite sure what issue you're facing though?
<cbaines>(ah, I'm just reading you're email now...)
<zimoun`>my last email which you have not received yet exposes the issue, I hope.
<zimoun`>and the issue is (x-git-newrev (assq-ref headers 'x-git-newrev)))
<zimoun`>which should be (x-git-rev (assq-ref headers 'x-git-rev)))
<clone11>When I try to install rust it tries to build the whole chain from 1.41. Is this an issue on my end? Other substitutions seem to be working
<lfam>If other substitutions are working, I think it's not a problem on your end
<zimoun`>cbaines: read above :-)
<cbaines>zimoun`, right, I think the issue you're having is that the Guix Data Service just works with states that a branch is in
<zimoun`>cbaines: I think it parses the wrong field
<cbaines>So if master is on commit A, and I push B, C, D, E and F, then the Guix Data Service will see master at commit A and then master at commit F
<zimoun`>yes, and this is the issue.
<cbaines>If commit C broke a package, then the Guix Data Service will say it was working as of commit A, and broken in commit F
<zimoun`>and it is “wrong”. I think the header field is the wrong one.
<cbaines>The issue I'm describing above is more general though
<zimoun`>well, the file enqueue-job-for-email should be a bit smarter.
<cbaines>Rather than looking at states which the branch is in, you could look at each individual commit
<zimoun`>yes, and the information is guix-commits
<cbaines>It's possible, but it would be far more work in terms of processing revisions
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<zimoun`>not necessary, it depends on from where ’email’ in enqueue-job-for-email comes from.
<cbaines>That script does process every email
<cbaines>But it skips any that don't relate to branches changing
<cbaines>(string=? x-git-reftype "branch"
<zimoun`>so it is just processing emails, instead of the X-Git-Revenew, it should be X-Git-Rev
<zimoun`>I will try to give a look. But the point is that enqueue-job-for-email is not doing the correct job to select the commits. And I think a bit more logic could be added to this function.
<cbaines>The intent when I wrote it is just to track changes to a branch, and I think it's doing that correctly.
<cbaines>The bit at the top where it does (string? x-git-newrev) means it only looks at emails which describe the branch changing from one revision to another
<zimoun`>yep, I understand the logic. That’s just a bit more work but it is doable and then the commit will be the correct ones. I am enough annoyed to want to fix fix it. :-)
<cbaines>Again, processing each commit, rather than each state the branch is in is theoretically possible, but it would massively increase the work the Guix Data Service has to do. If someone pushes 100 commits all at once, then rather than the Guix Data Service just processing the one new revision, it would have to load 100 new revisions!
<zimoun`>life is life ;-)
<zimoun`>pragmatically, I would start to look at the number of commits by “state”
<civodul>cbaines: just read your thoughtful message about the coordinator, much appreciated!
<cbaines>good good :)
<zimoun`>cbaines: by processing revision, what do you mean?
<cbaines>zimoun`, all the stuff that is logged here for example
<cbaines>When processing a commit, the Guix Data Service does something similar to guix pull for that commit, for each architecture it's capable of, it then runs a Guix repl in that revision of Guix and extracts information from it. It generates derivations for every package, for every architecutre, as well as derivations for the system tests for each architecture. It extracts all the lint warnings. It also extracts lots of package metadata. It then does some work
<cbaines>to store the state of that revision in the database.
<zimoun`>what is for example “guix-data-service: computing derivation for docker system test”?
<cbaines>pretty much what it says
<zimoun`>:-) what are all these derivations?
<lfam>I'm packaging a GUI program that is written in Python and using Qt (pyqt)
<cbaines>There's a page for each revision that lists the system tests, along with their derivations
<lfam>It's icons are missing. Is this problem familiar to anybody?
<zimoun`>cbaines: make sense. I was not aware of it.
<cbaines>I'm hoping to speed it up, but loading data for new revisions isn't quick, the example I gave took over an hour to process
<zimoun`>but is it the job of the Data Service to run all these tests? I thought it was already covered by and Berlin
<cbaines>the Guix Data Service doesn't run the tests, just like it doesn't build packages, but it does compute the derivations for both of those things
<cbaines>Like for the packages, having the derivation means you can lookup if Cuirass has built it or not
<cbaines>(this doesn't actually work for system tests, since builds different derivations for them)
<zimoun`>ok, I got it.
<zimoun`>and what is “debug: Finished fetching inferior package metadata, took 1687 seconds”? Because it is a bit long
<cbaines>zimoun`, if you search for "fetching inferior package metadata" in the code, you'll see the (with-time-logging bit for that part. It's in load-new-guix-revision.scm
<cbaines>I think the reason why that bit is slow is something to do with the database and loading the package metadata
<cbaines>Package metadata in the context of the Guix Data Service means home page, location, licenses, description and synopsis
<cbaines>There are ~14,000 packages in recent revisions, so you have ~14,000 of the above
<cbaines>That bit of code is trying to match up the data it got from the inferior, with the data in the database, and insert new entries for any missing bits.
<cbaines>It was much slower, and I'm hoping it's possible to make it even faster, but I haven't got around to looking at it yet
<lfam>I suspect that all the pyqt users have this problem of missing icons
<zimoun`>cbaines: ok, normally there is a package.cache really fast to load but it does not contain what you need. With Arun and I did experimental stuff it to speed up “guix search”, see for example
<zimoun`>the idea was to add home, license, synopsis, description, etc to this package.cache. Maybe it could be revisited :-)
<cbaines>that could be useful
<cbaines>For this slow bit, all the data is in memory at this point, it's just matching it up with the database that's slow I think
<zimoun`>Hum, need investigations :-)
<zimoun`>Thanks for all the explanations. Now a lot of thing are clearer in my mind. I will give a look.
*zimoun` -> zZz
<lfam>It's weird because I see the program successfully opening the icons while watching in strace
<raghavgururajan>roptat: You around?