<terpri>"One weakness of PBKDF2 is that while its number of iterations can be adjusted to make it take an arbitrarily large amount of computing time, it can be implemented with a small circuit and very little RAM, which makes brute-force attacks using application-specific integrated circuits or graphics processing units relatively cheap."
<terpri>ah, argon2 was specifically designed as a successor, it sounds like
<nckx>Do you play bzflag on Guix? Had to look up what it was, and lo, we have it.
<terpri>well, libgcrypt does at least (appear to have) have blake2, which argon seems to be based on. so maybe i'll code it in the most naïve way possible (i've done simple implementations of aes, etc.)
<terpri>and then everyone will make fun of me for missing basic but non-obvious issues
<terpri>but some of my local friends have been doing game nights (mostly board games -- pioneers, dominion, etc.) in lieu of irl parties, which also conveniently helps test jitsi as a future hcoop.net service
<terpri>either people using bots, or only world-class players still bothering to play it, or both
<terpri>a while ago i was tasked with installing pioneers on a friend's computer so they could join in; it was an ancient m*cos system so i assumed i could just use homebrew. nope, too ancient to build successfully, similarly with fink...so they have to play pioneers on wine on m*cos :p (yes, they'll be getting a gnu/linux box once they can afford parts with unemployment $, the iMac was just an old corporate system that
<nckx>First real-world use of AFS I'm aware of too.
<brendyyn>just wondering if anyone here has a made a guix package for gccemacs. it would be fun to play with. If you don't know what it is, its an experimental version of emacs with native compilation that is said to load up and run a lot faster.
<terpri>it's still commonly used at universities, though not always obviously so (e.g. both UNC and NCSU, near me, use it). also some bank (citi?) uses it for some reason
<terpri>but hcoop.net is the only public-access afs system i know of
<terpri>brendyyn, not that i've heard of, but i'm eager to compare it to guile-emacs once the latter is updated
<str1ngs>terpri: not technically emacs, but I've been working on Nomad which is a emacs like browser using guile.
<terpri>Formbi, if you have reproducible examples, please email them to me (firstname.lastname@example.org), or the guile bugtracker (i guess, haven't asked permission to use the emacs bugtracker)
<str1ngs>terpri: though it uncanny how much like emacs it is sometimes.
<brendyyn>terpri: I'm not an expert at all so I was curious; Do you think if emacs doesn't get ported to guile, it would still be realistic to develop the elisp implementation on guile and turn useful elisp emacs extensions in to guile libraries for use outside emacs?
<terpri>also, guile-elisp will be the basis of (well, more like inspiration for) a full CL implementation for guile, which will be more generally useful, so not a waste of effort imo even if the emacs maintainers veto it
<terpri>lisp poetry is a very small genre these days
<terpri>i keep a copy of this blake riff (by dsk) on my desk: "I will not cease from Mental Fight, / Nor shall my Sword sleep in my hand: / Till we have built the Lisp Machine, / in Linux' green & pleasant Land"
<nckx>terpri: Is that a ‘fortune’? It looks recently familiar.
<brendyyn>Any idea when the next big core-updates update and merge will occur?
<terpri>i'll have to take a closer look at gccemacs sometime, but i'm skeptical that it would be notably better than guile-emacs for browser-like programs, though, if it is what it sounds like (assuming i can speed up guile-emacs significantly, which is "just" a SMOP that will probably involve rewriting some of the emacs C innards in guile...)
<terpri>(it's also possible that gccemacs and guile-emacs could work together in some fashion, but again, i'd have to learn more about gccemacs to figure that out -- guile doesn't really do native AOT compilation yet afaik)
<terpri>(though it does perform AOT compilation to fairly low-level bytecode)
<paul__>I wonder if folks have seen this problem before: i'm trying to `sudo guix system reconfigure` and it starts working, but fails halfway through the download of nss-certs-3.52.1 with a `apply-smob/1` backtrace, mentioning likely network issues. If i curl the same url it appears to work fine.
<paul__>It repeatedly fails at the same point in the download, whereas curl manages to download it.
<paul__>Hm, it appears that doing `guix build nss-certs --fallback` and then trying `sudo guix system reconfigure` again has helped me past that blockade.
<pkill9>why does downloading substitutes from the build server ci.guix... max out at 3mbps
<brendyyn>mine goes at around 34KiB/s, consider yourself lucky
<paul__>I'm guessing ci.guix.gnu.org lives in the USA somewhere, so having a geographically closer cache is also super helpful. I'm not sure if it'll end up being expensive, otherwise i'd be happy to share.
<paul__>pkill9: I mean it's a transparent caching proxy so i point Guix at it, and it pulls from ci.guix.gnu.org.
<nckx>paul__: So since your ‘personal CDN’ can only be reactive -- start downloading when you request a URL -- does that mean it's connecting to ci.guix from elsewhere, say Europe, effectively replacing our connection to you with a better one?
<guix-vits>OK: I did updated Guix System on the RockPro64 SBC. And all worked well. Then i added %desktop-services to config.scm, and get stuck on boot (but not in rescue shell). The error was about some filesystem called "freezer". I think i'll fall back to Armbian on the SBC. Am not ready to this fun yet being wanting an working SBC, now :)
<guix-vits>str1ngs: In the worst case there is Armbian, which work OK (if not count that it isn't Guix). And installed with Guixp PM apps have no GPU acceleration (scrolling a man-page, within a graphical session, in terminal emulator takes seconds).
<str1ngs>guix-vits: is armbian based on bionic of focal do you know?
<brendyyn>raghavgururajan: probably the screen tool is available?
<raghavgururajan>nckx: A while ago, leoprikler told me to do, after starting the build,  Ctrl+Z  bg  disown -ar. But that does not work. When I reconnect after few hours, the package was not built.
<nckx>raghavgururajan: If screen is too much to learn right now look at mosh, it's an SSH session that survives disconnection. As long as you don't kill it locally it should keep running on the server. Needs to be installed on both ends.
<nckx>But learning screen (or dtach/tmux, whatever you prefer) is a better investment that learning disown/nohup incantations by heart.
<nckx>raghavgururajan: Yeah, but it's starting from cmake, so we'll see. Slow build is better than no build.
<bluekeys>Hi guix. Is it possible to make guix output a console to serial on boot? So, as long as the server is booted and I can get a serial cable to it then I'm able to access a shell. Ssh went weird for the last few days and I don't really know why, but a serial console is now feeling like a good idea as a backup.
<bluekeys>At the moment, after booting the serial console is just stuck saying "Welcome to GRUB!". I'd love to be able to see grub in my serial console too.
<bluekeys>When I have a monitor connected, I can control the grub screen via the serial connection, but just don't see any feedback *except welcome to grub*. Once the system is booted, I just get left with the welcome message, but would love to see the system booting, as if I was watching the screen, and then a console, as if I was connected via ssh
<bluekeys>And... I think the problem with ssh may be that the system is suspending itself. I've installed a gui, but don't want to use it. Today is the first time ive reconnected the monitor and It's just popped up a message saying Power Automatic suspend Computer will suspend very soon... I gues that was the cause of the ssh hangups
<bluekeys>I think I'll remove the WM because I'm not really using it, I hope that would stop the suspend, I don't remember it happening before that.
<apteryx>I think another user was bitten by the same situation. For headless systems, seems safer to not install desktop environments.
<guix-vits>bluekeys: Is there any USB involved in the connection? Like USB-modem? Linux loves to autosuspend those.
<sneek>Welcome back guix-vits, you have 1 message!
<sneek>guix-vits, nckx says: ‘freeze’ is Suspend-To-Idle, ‘mem’ is Suspend-To-RAM. S2I is *less* deep than S2R and relies less on hardware support; it's basically the kernel saying ‘OK, I'll put the CPU in deep power-save mode & just... stop doing stuff for a while’ but the system is technically ‘running’. S2R actually powers down the CPU and lets the motherboard refresh RAM. So it's at least strange that it shouldn't work where mem
<bluekeys>I'd like to make use of the screen, as I can see it from my desk. I would like feedback, like current IP, cpu, other metrics etc...
<bluekeys>No usb modem, there is a serial to usb connection, don't hink that would affect ssh
<bluekeys>99% it's the wm hibernating as the screen has now gone blank and although the server is making noise, it's not responding to pings etc and it was before. This also perfectly coincided with the warning message and the screen blanking so....
<bluekeys>Anyone got any ideas on making use of the screen without a window manager? Maybe an autologin to a webbrowser with metrics. Maybe somthing with stumpwm, I could have a whole lisp machine thing going on?
<guix-vits>bluekeys: is SSH works with Wayland? sway seems to not autosuspend.
<bluekeys>I don't understand whay you mean guix-vits. You may have to dumb it down a little ;)
<guix-vits>.. or i can step out, to not flood. IDK SSH, anyway.
***terpri__ is now known as terpri
<bluekeys>I think you might be right guix-vits. No need to step out, I appreciate the help. I'm really new to this and don't know scheme. How do I remove elements from %desktop-services? No harm in trying.
<bluekeys>Thanks guix-vits. I'm gonna grab some lunch and read that. The server just suspended in the middle of a system reconfigure, so I'm going to have to figure this out for my sanity. Bye for now.
<guix-vits>bluekeys: 8.1, System services has some with "(remove"
<guix-vits>bluekeys: Also in "Scheme Variable: slim-service-type" is an example of how to use %desktop-services, but swap gdm with slim.
<nckx>raghavgururajan: Which exact test (‘Failing test(s): xxx’ in the log) failed for you?
<voidie>Hey I have recently heard about the guix package manager and it seems interesting. I just have some questions concerning it, if anyone can help me out
<voidie>My first question is: I'm using musl Void Linux. I know that a lot of software is compiled against glibc. If I install a software with guix, will it install glibc as a dependency for that software?
<voidie>My follow-up question is: what if I install multiple software which have the same dependencies? Will guix pull that (version of) the dependency for each package that I install? So let's say I install package A, which requires glibc. Then I assume guix will install glibc as a dependency for it. But when I install another package (package B), which also requires glibc, will I end up with glibc twice on my system now; one as part of each package?
<vagrantc>when they use the same glibc, there will only be one instance
<vagrantc>in some cases, different packages may use different versions of libraries
<voidie>I see. That's what I wanted to know. Thanks!
<vagrantc>and guix packages use libraries from guix, not from the host distribution (e.g. void linux)
<voidie>Ah, so I will probably end up with 'duplicates' in some way or the other
<vagrantc>each time you update guix, you'll likely get some new packages and libraries ... and interactions between them .. e.g. when a dependency of a package changes, guix creates a new instance of that package ... essentially
<vagrantc>it's a very different model from a typical software distribution... takes some getting used to
<voidie>Yeah I see. My concern was mainly with disk storage. I've read that guix stores (almost) everything in /guix/store, and my root (/) partition is a little less than 25 GB in size
<voidie>Could you just give me a very general outline how it would look like? For example. what directories (if any) do I create on that external hard drive, where would I mount it, would I have to change something in a config file or can I just mv stuff to the hard drive?
<leoprikler>using guix packs might also come in handy if you also have to deal with non-Guix systems and want to use Guix software on them
<nckx>bwrap: No permissions to creating new namespace, likely because the kernel does not allow non-privileged user namespaces. On e.g. debian this can be enabled with 'sysctl kernel.unprivileged_userns_clone=1'.
<apteryx>seems my snippet is valid (tested OK from the REPL), so I suppose it's a cyclic dependency problem at run time. I see the computed-origin uses a (delay ...) to avoid those, but I don't see how this can work on a snippet field.
<plasma41>Why did I and loads of other people get kicked and banned from this channel on Friday by an overzealous ChanServ?
<apteryx>it was a mistake, although we're not sure how it happened.
<alexshendi>I have a question: As with every GPD device the GPD MicroPC has a landscape/portrait orientation problem. What I don't understand is: GDM login window orientation is correct, but the X session has wrong orientation and I must correct it with xrandr???
<alexshendi>Also I believe I currently have the base system and kernel from 1.1.0 and the user profile for guix-current. How do I correct this?
<NieDzejkob>alexshendi: confirm that sudo which guix points to /home/$USER/.config/guix/current/bin/guix and then sudo guix system reconfigure /path/to/your/config.scm
<apteryx>so, to answer myself about why the gexp snippet fails to work, it's because it's eager and fails to resolve coreutils-final (cyclic dependency). The solution as proposed by civodul in 2016 would be to make snippet a thunked field.
<NieDzejkob>plasma41: the logs from just after the incident suggest that this was caused by nckx's userscript going berserk
<nckx>This is both the most likely and best reason.
<nckx>I would not type *!*@* by accident 😛 But I have some (in retrospect, years later) dodgy ‘helper’ scripts that I collected when I first started IRCing. Half of them have broke by now. I threw out the rest.
<apteryx>continuing my monologue: yes, both are transparent to users. The define-record-type* implements wraps the accessors to thunked or delayed field in a way that they are either evaluated or forced, respectively (c.f. (guix records)).
***sneek_ is now known as sneek
<apteryx>ah, thunked probably preserves the context (captures the closure), while promises probably not.
<erc>I'm trying to change the login shell of my user account to fish. The manual says we need to make a G-expression for this. How can I do this?
*jonsger would be very happy if someone could show him a way to *successfully* set up certificates with certbot-service for multiple domains :)
<vagrantc>when trying to run "make dist" i get: guix-188.8.131.5230-a8c8f-dirty/gnu/packages/commencement.scm:// /gnu/store/cq0cmv35s9dhilx14zaghlc08gpc0hwr-tcc-boot0-0.9.26-6.c004e9a/lib/libc.a: error: 'sigprocmask' defined twice
<vagrantc>error: store file names embedded in the distribution
<vagrantc>i guess that means need to update guix-184.108.40.20630-a8c8f-dirty/gnu/packages/commencement.scm:// /gnu/store/cq0cmv35s9dhilx14zaghlc08gpc0hwr-tcc-boot0-0.9.26-6.c004e9a/lib/libc.a: error: 'sigprocmask' defined twice
<apteryx>so, I tried making the snippet field of an <origin> record thunked, but this seems to introduce yet another cycle when I tried to build my package :-/.
<vagrantc>janneke: it looks like you added the /gnu/store/... thing in d9484fba91bc360ad18fe82cb9f4963ccb32c580 gnu: commencement: Add bash-mesboot0. ... does it look to you if the full path is required to be in there, or can it be truncated to /gnu/store/…-tcc-boot0-0.9.26-6.c004e9a/lib/libc.a ?
<apteryx>i.e., building any package hangs the 'guix' command, spikes the CPU and eventually exhaust all the memory.
<str1ngs>janneke: BTW I have some local sraged work for getting emacsy working with guile 3. I'll try to push something to a guile-3 branch sometime this week. if you want to double check it before I merge?
<lfam>jonsger: I don't there is a good reason. Hidden packages are meant to be hidden from the "UI", but that really means from `guix show`. I think there is effectively a different UI for development, and `guix refresh` should mention hidden packages
<lfam>`guix edit` is another case where you should be able to use it for all public packages
<lfam>There's a distinction to be drawn between public hidden packages and packages that are private (not exported)
<lfam>If you do that, you'll also want to import the module where the linux-libre packages are defined. That means you'll add it to the list of imported packages modules, like (use-packages modules linux)
<lfam>I'm curious PotentialUser-15, were you having problems with the 5.7 or 5.8 kernels?