IRC channel logs

<jab> https://developer.tbd.website/projects/web5/

<jab>I wonder how this relates to activityPub?

<civodul>would be nice if there was a way to display/walk the stack frames of a delimited continuation

<dthompson>that would be very cool

<two[m]>hi, was i tagged here?

<drakonis>were you?

<two[m]>i got a notification

<two[m]><jab> "https://developer.tbd.website/..." <- >

<two[m]>>wallets

<two[m]>bruh

<Madsy>Is there a way to force foreign objects' finalizers to be run in the main thread? Some APIs like OpenGL are picky regarding which thread they are invoked from.

<w0ll3q1uszxabiwo>Is there a way in guile to assign a documentation to the variable? Like elisp's `(defvar identifier default-value "documentation")`

<drakonis>two[m]: this tbd thing makes me die a little on the inside

<drakonis>every social media under the sun and nothing of value with regards to code

<two[m]><w0ll3q1uszxabiwo> "Is there a way in guile to..." <- ```... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/276f1c171501c09bb99a91d75a1baafec32874a3>)

<w0ll3q1uszxabiwo>> <@two:pub.solar> ```... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/cac59832aa02b4fe47f0db69ad1b5a9883d554e8>)

<w0ll3q1uszxabiwo>^-^

<antipode>w0ll3q1uszxabiwo: IRC does not have multi-line messages.

<antipode>Documentation is not associated with variables, but with their values.

<antipode>AFAIK it is currently only supported for procedures.

<antipode>You can set the documentation during the definition of the procedure, via the 'docstring.

<w0ll3q1uszxabiwo>antipode: https://ircv3.net/specs/extensions/multiline

*w0ll3q1uszxabiwo stares

<antipode>I suggest reading the 'work-in-progress' and 'extension' part.

<w0ll3q1uszxabiwo>antipode: eh?

<antipode>Also, even if Libera's IRC servers and the clients implement that (maybe they actually do, I don't know), your Matrix server does not support that extension and instead sends a link.

<two[m]><jab> "I wonder how this relates to..." <- if you look for such things, also see https://openengiadina.net/

<two[m]>they have demos

<w0ll3q1uszxabiwo>antipode: right taking irc 3 years to implement any kind of basic functionality.. Use irc client that supports those or submit an issue to matrix so that the bridge formats it in friendlier way?

<antipode>See https://logs.guix.gnu.org/guile/2022-10-29.log for how it appears on the IRC search.

<w0ll3q1uszxabiwo>What do you have against links then? 🤔

<two[m]>so `<` is a part of the link, and it doesn;t work?

<two[m]>this should be fixed on their side then

<antipode>w0ll3q1uszxabiwo: I am not interested in multi-line messages on IRC. If you are, you can discuss that with IRC server and client implementations and the Matrix bridge, preferably in the form of patches.

<two[m]>or just log matrix instead 🤷‍♀️

<w0ll3q1uszxabiwo>antipode: it's really annoying for a matrix user to constantly adjust for IRC's limitations you know..

<w0ll3q1uszxabiwo>may i suggest you to use matrix instead? I see IRC as obsolete in comparison

<two[m]>deletions are not bridges so i think irc shouldn't be logged

<antipode>You may and I reject your proposal. Even if I preferred Matrix, #guile is currently on IRC not Matrix.

<two[m]>s/bridges/bridged/

<two[m]>but edits are?

<w0ll3q1uszxabiwo>antipode: why do you bother if your client shows it formatted in a good way and IRC users seem to prefer the links then?

<two[m]>antipode: it's on matrix too

<antipode>It is not formatted in a good way and to my knowledge IRC do not prefer the links, though I didn't do a formal survey.

<w0ll3q1uszxabiwo>like matrix is basically banding over backwards bcs ircv3 development is just a group of elderly citizens screaming at each other and can't decide on what they want last time i checked

<w0ll3q1uszxabiwo>antipode: submit patch/issue to the client developer then? Or check settings to configure the behavior to show the way you prefer?

<antipode>Yes, that's my recommendation.

<w0ll3q1uszxabiwo>gut gut

<antipode>w0ll3q1uszxabiwo: On what I have against links: https://paste.debian.net/1258748/

<w0ll3q1uszxabiwo>like if the web browser is an issue then use different client that shows it embedded?

<w0ll3q1uszxabiwo>like all matrix clients work that way and support IRC through bridges

<antipode>two[m]: Pretty sure that #guile is on Libera (IRC), not Matrix, though Matrix seems to have a bridge, which might be what you meant.

<antipode>w0ll3q1uszxabiwo: No, IRC clients shouldn't need to work-around Matrix bridge idiosyncrasies. Also, I'm using an IRC client, not a Matrix client, 'all matrix clients work that way' is irrelevant.

<antipode>Also, my IRC client does show things embedded.

<two[m]>antipode: chat rooms are not tied to a server, they are federated

<two[m]>there is no "server on which the chat is hosted"

<antipode>That is, when you sent a message, my client shows your message.exactly as it was sent, if this message is a link, it is a link.

<w0ll3q1uszxabiwo>you realize that matrix devs literally work with IRC users and developers to implement the compatibility for IRC as painlessly as possible right.. it's the IRCv3 devs who are sabotaging the development to be called idiosyncrasies

<w0ll3q1uszxabiwo>thus why you see the link instead of huge floods of messages that IRC clients show in unreadable way

<technomancy>two[m]: it's possible to set up a channel that way, but this channel is not one of those

<technomancy>this is a libera channel

<w0ll3q1uszxabiwo>like if you want the long messages without the links then that can probably be configured on matrix's end

<antipode>two[m]: Are you talking about #guile?

<antipode>I mean, technically Libera (and consequently, #guile) is a 'federation', but not really.

<antipode>w0ll3q1uszxabiwo: I presume that matrix devs do that stuff; this doesn't make the 'send a link' any less of an idiosyncrasy.

<antipode>If you dislike the current IRC protocol and limitations, complaining to me is pointless; I am not involved in IRC development.

<antipode>Likewise, maybe the relevant Matrix server can be configured to not send links but instead send the message directly, but I do not have administration access to the relevant Matrix server.

<two[m]>so we agree to disagree?

<antipode>two[m]: Are you asking me, and if so, what point do you propose to agree to disagree on?

<antipode>(There have been various points)

<technomancy>there's an open issue on the

<technomancy>*on the matrix/irc bridge issue tracker about disabling features that don't federate in bridged rooms

<technomancy>kind of wish that would get fixed

<two[m]>antipode: the matrix server sends the full message in the "body" json property

<two[m]>libera.chat is the server that truncates it

<two[m]>before sending to irc clients

<technomancy>two[m]: libera doesn't accept json messages

<technomancy>where are you getting this from

<antipode>two[m]: That's impossible, IRC does not have a concept of "body" and "json", all it knows is text, text, more text; do you have a source?

<antipode>Between two Matrix servers, sure, but #guile and Libera is IRC.

<antipode>Unless you mean Libera's matrix bridge server.

<two[m]>yes sorry that's what i mean

<antipode>two[m]: In that case, I do not agree to disagree on the point "the matrix server sends the full message in the "body" json property", because I agree with that point.

<w0ll3q1uszxabiwo><antipode> "If you dislike the current IRC..." <- you complain about the implementation and demand adjustments from me though :p

<antipode>I haven't made any complaints about any IRC implementations.

<w0ll3q1uszxabiwo>oh oke~

<antipode>(I have some complaints about my current IRC client, but none mentioned on #guile)

<antipode>I also don't demand you adjust the Matrix implementations (as you aren't responsible for the Matrix bridge to my knowledge).

<antipode>I only demand that you keep in mind that Matrix and IRC are different and follow IRC (n)ettiquette (i.e., no putting text behind links unless it's e.g. a code block) and you don't demand me anything I'm not responsible for.

<antipode>... and looking through the log again, it appears it actually was someone else that sent the multi-line message, not you.

<antipode>... and it was just a code block.

<two[m]>i did

<two[m]>is my code block not a link?

<lilyp>two[m]: the thing is that matrix doesn't differentiate between actually useful links (like blocks of code beyond a few lines) and stuff that it just has to send through a paste service because omg, you had a line break or you dared use formatting (because formatting is absolutely essential to the point one conveys and can not be done without

<lilyp>)