<apteryx>on top of my head; parallel xz compression for everything, halved rust bootstrap, a python sanity check phase that detects run time problems, tweaks to texlive that allows composing multiple texlive trees
<nckx>theruran: You could try <https://github.com/edc/bass>. Guix currently assumes you're a power user if you use fish or another non-bash shell (not unreasonably) and doesn't generate profiles in different dialects.
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<jpoiret>i'll see if i can add that, although i haven't used guix that much, thanks. also is there any licence reason that zotero isn't packaged? i'll consider making a package for it not
<nckx>jpoiret: The list of swap-devices string just generates a list of Shepherd services, so you should define your own swap service that does order itself correctly. Not trivial by any means, and I'd like to replace swap-devices with first-class file-system objects, but that's bitrotting since my use case went away.
<jpoiret>is there any reason using swap-device instead of a proper service is preferred (same for filesystems)? I don't know any of operating-system's intricacies and if there's more to it than just this
<nckx>jpoiret: Zotero looks free (and it's in Debian main, a good sign). If there are problems, my guess is they are related to dependency hell or bootstrapping or something in that area, it being a ‘Web App’.
<tissevert>I'm relieved to learn that you had some insight about the situation, it can escalate so quickly to «As say B is the bad guy, B says As are the bad guys» and then it's only obvious someone's trying to manipulate you but it's so hard to be certain which side it is
<tissevert>I mean the situation was a bit surreal and floating
<tissevert>I was the second person to reach this chan on libera, and we didn't know yet if moving for good was the right decision
<tissevert>and some very nice persons introduced me to the joys of matrix and I was wondering what was going to happen
<tissevert>it's just that obviously as a community we'd have to make a choice but it didn't seem to be the moment to make such a choice yet because the info was to recent and not enough people were around
<smarton>Hey guys, why does Guix seem somewhat "allergic" to Rust? I remember seeing multiple times on this channel reactions like "ugh rust". Is it because of big compile times of the rust compiler itself or are there other problems for distro packaging?
<nckx>tissevert: I just listened to people I trust. And not because I ‘like’ them. That's about as good as truth gets on the Internet, I guess.
<cbaines>I think bootstrapping, non-incremental builds and these problems being pulled in to various areas are the main issues with Rust, at least in my mind
<nckx>(Honestly, this particular drama is surprisingly clear-cut.)
<tissevert>nckx: I never though it was a matter of «liking» someone better than someone else !!
<tissevert>it's I don't know anyone in this particular situation so I realised I could never have made an informed decision, which is why I praised your insight
<tissevert>(it was in no way ironical or anything, I hope that's not how my messages came out)
<nckx>Now let's hope the new network does well so we don't have to move again (I considered OFTC too, but that would be a much more significant move; Libera is just Freenode in exile).
<stikonas>smarton: yeah, rust is quite hard to bootstrap, mrustc helps of course, but it's a bit picky (regarding compiler versions, arches, etc...) and slow (takes a while to bootstrap the whole chain)
<nckx>The length of the Rust bootstrap chain has been halved on the core-updates branch.
<tissevert>do you need some people to remain for a while on freenode to warn the people who missed all this and redirect them here or do you rather need us to actually move so it becomes obvious freenode was abandonned and there's no «ghost presence» left ?
<stikonas>yeah. Outside guix I successfully built mrustc->rustc-1.39->...->rustc-1.51 which shortens it again, but it will always be catchup game...
<stikonas>(at least until/if rust decides to standardize a bit)
<nckx>tissevert: If I wanted everyone to leave I could just kick them out and lock the channel, but that's all a bit dramatic. I'd like it to just dry up.
<nckx>Though I might accelerate that if it starts to turn into a SpamZone or Unpleasant Place that we don't want associated with the Guix name.
<tissevert>some nice people have mentioned Matrix and I'm giving it a try, there's way fewer people than here but it seems nice so far
<madage>if I may, I'd say that there is a line that can be draw between this and the rms debacle: a large/significant amount of very active and concerned individuals does not trust the direction/authority of some individual who seems to want things done their ways regardless of the opinions of others
<madage>my take on both cases is to side with the group, not the individual who wants sole authority and decision making
<madage>even though or precisely because I lack inside knowledge of the situation at hand
<tissevert>it's more a matter of «the ideas» rather than «the group», isn't it ?
<madage>certainly, but when the details or certainty of some info are lacking how do you decide who/what to trust?
<nckx>madage: Was my exact reason to ‘move’ (really: follow along with the name change).
<nckx>What's the Matrix equivalent of HexChat? Matrix's strong association with unusably slow (yep: I, too, have tried Element) Web 6.0 crapware is probably its main handicap when compared to IRC. While there are probably good clients too.
<tissevert>I heard it was possible to connect to matrix with weechat (but haven't tried yet)
<nckx>Yes, there's a Weechat plug-in! I'm not that hardcore though. On my laptop anyway, I want my gooey.
<pineapples>civodul: +1 in regard to Matrix; even if it wasn't the primary channel of communication, having an officially recognised one (perhaps bridged to this IRC chat room) would lower a barrier to entry for new and unexperienced users that, including me, find IRC unfriendly
<nckx>The Weechat Matrix plug-in needs to actually be built & all.
<tissevert>and it so happen that the 'from' context might be more frequent enough for it to sound more «idiomatic» to non-native speakers
<pineapples>nckx: Hmm. To clarify, I'm asking for a Matrix room officially endorsed by all prominent figures in our community, one that would be put up on https://guix.gnu.org/en/contact/ and perhaps advertised in a future blog post regarding the migration from Freenode to Libera
<nckx>‘From’ to me implies a more genuine (for lack of a better word) independence from e.g. some authority, not like a variable is independent of some other. But it's extremely subtle and might not be universal.
<pineapples>nckx: Yes, we can. However, it must be clear for potential users which Matrix room we have authority over. Hence, I believe one has to be advertised (be it via a blog post or the website's "Contact" page) to build trust around it
<nckx>Agreed, and we don't have ‘authority’ (what a word) over the native room.
<lfam>I'll also cherry-pick the change for the untranslated manual
<roptat>I think you can test it by running make, it should regenerate the translated manuals, then you can check say the French manual, see if it says anything about libera.chat in French or if it failed and it says it in English
<nckx>zimoun: <however, I note that I wrote exactly that> Could you expand? The KiwiIRC frame at guix.gnu.org connects to Libera. Which line is missing from which channel on which network?
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<zimoun>yeah, I was connected with it (zimoun_kiwi :-)). It works pretty well. Couple of hours ago, before log out from Kiwi, I typed «nckx, neat! Thanks.» Modulo the punctation. ;-) And then scrolling the log, I note it is not in. Though, it was appearing in the Kiwi stuff. Does it make sense?
<nckx>I don't know if gettext cares, but if it produces weird error messages with identical-looking strings: note that I used a non-breaking space in ‘Libera Chat’, like we do for ‘GNU Guix’ in most places.
<roptat>also another thought, what about the configuration interface for a new static-network-service-type?
<roptat>should I try to keep it compatible with static-network-service, or can I change that entirely?
<civodul>maybe aim for the "ideal" interface in terms of expressivity and ease of use
<civodul>then we'll see whether/how we can make it compatible with the existing one
<roptat>mh, maybe something that maps interface name to a list of configurations (if you want multiple ips, etc)
<roptat>then, not sure if I should split a configuration into multiple "types", or if it should be an IP, a gateway, etc in one bloc
<roptat>maybe some generic fields, like the version of guile-netlink, requirement (default to udev as now), name-servers, ips (maps interface to ip addresses, either v4 or v6), gateway-address, and gateway-interface
<roptat>then it's relatively easy to extend, you could do something like (simple-service 'static-networking-service-type 'network-eth0 (static-networking-interface-configuration "eth0" '("192.168.0.25/24" "2001::2536/56"))) or similar
<bone-baboon>When I try to run `guix challeng --diff=diffoscope mesa` it gets stuck with an ETA of 39 days and does not progress. I have tried it several times and I get the same results (stuck at an ETA of around 39 hours). I have tested the internet connection and it is fine.
<ss2>Where are the config files for php-fpm placed? I can't find them..
<ss2>I have the service set up, and would like to see the result.
<ss2>are the service files stored in the store as well? (well, everything is anyway)
<nckx>bone-baboon: I can't reproduce your exact situation because I don't have a local mesa build (and performing one would take ages), but are you sure it's doing nothing? Mesa is 142 MiB. diffoscope is very slow. Is your computer idle?
<ss2>that line of yours to scan the store is really handy!
<bone-baboon>nckx: The guix challenge is the only thing the computer is doing. I have started it again and will leave it alone while it works on it. However it does seem to be getting stuck. Maybe I was being to impatient with it. I have challenged other large packages and not seen this behavior before.
<nckx>bone-baboon: ‘works’ as in it's using CPU time?
<apteryx>civodul: re keyboard layout in Xfce; yes, via the settings tool provided by the Xfce desktop
<apteryx>I've added an English (US) dvorak layout as the preferred layout (top of the layout stack in the menu), but asdf was still asdf, not aoeu ;-)
<nckx>bone-baboon: Manually running diffoscope on that store item took 1.7s here so I guess that's not it. But it might take shortcuts since all files are identical. It's taken multiple minutes on big directories before.
<terpri>hwpplayer1, you don't need to install guix again, just edit /etc/config.scm (by default), then "sudo -Es guix system reconfigure /etc/config.scm" applies the configuration (but you might need to reboot afterwards, switching from terminal-only to a DE)