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2025-02-08.log

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<fr33domlover>o/ is there a more-or-less elegant goblins API for hooking external event sources into an actor? e.g. to have actors that respond to keyboard events or stdin lines? I recall some event loop API but can't see it now in Goblins docs TOC
<jfred>fr33domlover: you might be looking for the IO actor? https://files.spritely.institute/docs/guile-goblins/0.15.0/IO.html
<fr33domlover>Thanks jfred! (Is there a simple demo of e.g. how the IO actor is used with a GUI?)
<dckc>ACTION waves
<dckc>ACTION finds time to watch one of the FOSDEM talks... https://social.coop/@dthompson@toot.cat/113951615405260651
<dckc>re SXML - JSX is pretty similar. It doesn't use the "string with escapes for code" approach.
<dckc>I prefer html`<dfn>tagged template literals</dfn>`
<dckc>re DIY router - "no framework necessary" but I see (request-method request). I'm pretty sure that's not standard scheme.
<dckc>the hoot slide reminds me... I'm interested to use the guile compiler goodies to interpret and/or compile monte
<dckc>color picker with propagators... ooh! ah!
<dckc>"The future - sans POSIX" <- _that_ is the part that interests me more
<dckc>the 60,000 line package lock files are a testament to a huge corpus of composable software and a huge community around it. I think dissing that is not constructive.
<dckc>yes, it's horrible in some ways...
<dckc>but it's like they say: there are languages everybody complains about and languages nobody uses.
<dckc>I think you're better off building a scheme community without looking down at JS. But I suppose you know your audience better than I do.
<dckc>hm... "sans POSIX" is discussed as a bad thing; as a limitation.
<dckc>to me, it's the thing that makes rewriting ~all the software in the world worthwhile. It's the pile of code that's not just insecure but insecurable.
<dckc>fibers seems like a pointy instrument. I hope it's kept to low level stuff. event loop concurrency has a lot going for it.
<dckc>"beyond DNS". oh my. that's so big it's sort of "one of these things is not like the others" on this slide.
<dckc>I do agree it's a good direction: https://www.madmode.com/2012/06/imagine-theres-no-icann-with-namecoin
<dckc>(I'm not as hot on namecoin these days. it's another "one big namespace for the whole world" thing)
<dckc>um. that supporter slide was only up like 2 seconds. next time, maybe show it at the beginning as well as the end or something
<dckc>"repeat the question" yay FOSDEM organizers / session moderator!!!
<dckc>"autotools ... is basically trash" spicy!
<dckc> https://akkuscm.org/ <- TIL
<dckc>"guix typically has only one version of things" <- that's not my experience. I often `guix instally xyz` and get 4 versions of bash in the process
<dckc>re guix as a package manager - it certainly works well in a lot of ways, but it sort of lacks the "scales down" shape.
<dckc>There Can Be Only One guix store
<dckc>maybe you can move the guix store like you can in nix, but then you don't get to use any pre-compiled binaries
<dckc>only one... and do you have to be root to install it? I can't see any other way to make /gnu/store
<dckc>where are the other talks? ooh! https://video.fosdem.org/2025/h1302/ <- candy store!!!
<dckc>"Identity and Access Management" track... looks like all ACL stuff. here's hoping for more capability mindshare!
<dckc>looks like the recording for https://fosdem.org/2025/schedule/event/fosdem-2025-5128-today-s-fediverse-a-good-start-but-there-s-more-to-do/ isn't available yet
<dckc>darn; https://fosdem.org/2025/schedule/event/fosdem-2025-5312-consent-based-secure-collaboration-with-spritely-goblins-object-capabilities/ neither.
<dckc>not https://fosdem.org/2025/schedule/event/fosdem-2025-5315-shepherd-with-spritely-goblins-for-secure-system-layer-collaboration/ either. it's killing me!
<dckc>ok... https://fosdem.org/2025/schedule/event/fosdem-2025-5720-the-shepherd-minimalism-in-pid-1/ is available. I'll try that.
<dckc>`herd status` needs sudo? hm.
<dckc>the ellipsis in /gnu/store/.../-avahi-daemon.conf ... how did he do that?!
<dckc>hm. emacs shell tweak, maybe?
<dckc>ah... `herd status` without sudo is for the user
<dckc>repl in shepherd... I guess it has sort of a debugger-like capability? or maybe shepherd is not (yet?) capability/POLA-shaped inside yet?
<dckc>sshd-under inetd... that reminds me... https://github.com/NuxiNL/flower is a nifty POLA-shaped widget for managing network connections. I wonder if that pattern fits in here.
<dckc>socket based activation -- I was wondering if shepherd had that. cool.
<dckc>7.4KLOC <- remarkably small
<dckc>the prospect of writing code without static types still gives me the willies.
<dckc>writing non-trivial amounts of code, that is
<dckc>J. Sims acks funder on title slide :)
<dckc>serverless workflow... https://fosdem.org/2025/schedule/event/fosdem-2025-4494-introduction-to-serverless-workflow-dsl/ <- that seems like a market for goblins.
<dckc>programming-in-yaml is a real nightmare, IME
<dckc>darn; "Small headed programming for performance with prescheme, nim and zig" isn't ready either.
<dckc>nor "Goblins: The framework for your next project!"
<dckc>wow... Nova is starting to look even cooler than seL4 https://fosdem.org/2025/schedule/event/fosdem-2025-5083-a-formal-specification-of-the-nova-microhypervisor/
<dckc>yay landlock! maybe there's hope for linux yet? https://fosdem.org/2025/schedule/event/fosdem-2025-6071-sandbox-ids-with-landlock/
<dckc>is the spritely shepherd work looking at landlock?
<dckc><3 "What if a process
<dckc>could only use file
<dckc>descriptors?" <- fuchsia talk
<dpk>the unix philosophy will continue until morale improves
<dckc>more fodder for: how do I want to run my services? https://fosdem.org/2025/schedule/event/fosdem-2025-5987-system-manager-unleashing-nix-on-almost-any-distro/
<jfred>I'm slightly hesitant to post about this here because I'm on an older version of goblins on this machine, but I seem to be having some trouble getting persistence going on one of my applications: https://paste.sr.ht/~jfred/853a12e39153c5969258ff914d3bcd5db5bf27f6
<jfred>I've got a current-ish version of guix and my profile built on my rk3588 reform, I should copy that all over to my pocket reform soon haha
<jfred>ACTION tries to work out if he's doing something wrong
<jfred>oh whoops, I made the boss persistence-aware but not one of the objects it spawns and has a reference to, that's probably it!
<jfred>hmm. maybe not.
<jfred>aaaaaha, it was because I didn't extend `common-env` in my persistence env but I was using ghashes
<jfred>that'll do it
<jfred>few more things to work through/figure out but define-actor is lovely