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<curious_reader>Hello Spritely community :) , I just wanted to share with you the following video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=-80VsIdAHZw&feature=youtu.be in which bret victor demos the state of his dynamicland project as of April 2023. I do think the Communal Computing aspect is the most important one of the project.

<curious_reader>He also mentions a couple of times in the Video that he doesn't like github....

<curious_reader>In which way does Spritely aim to change or create a new computing culture?

<cow_2001>curious_reader: Wow.

<jfred>curious_reader: That is so cool. I've seen the earlier talk about that project but it's nice to see it distilled down into something more readily shareable

<jfred>I've dreamt about a Dynamicland-like environment where the pages are Goblins objects and the whiskers between them represent capabilities between them, with revocation possible by simply moving the pages away from each other

<jfred>I didn't get very far in trying to implement it, in part because I have very little experience with graphical programming

<jfred>Also had some trouble conceptually trying to figure out how one would represent complex programs without them becoming unwieldy, if you needed physical proximity for them to interact - but on reflection I think you could have a distinction between "libraries" which don't have any capabilities themselves (but could refer to other libraries) and live programs which would

<Ryuno-KiAndrJaen><jfred> "I didn't get very far in..." <- Game development would have some research here

<Ryuno-KiAndrJaen>Conceptually it's collision detection with bounding boxes in a 2D scene

<Ryuno-KiAndrJaen>I'd be more concerned on how to expose it to assistive technology

<Ryuno-KiAndrJaen>Screenreaders, braille etc

<jfred>The part I was having more of a challenge with was what the drawing API for the page programs should be, and how to hook that into the game engine - you want enough freedom for them to be useful, but not enough for them to affect the rendering performance of the rest of the system too much

<jfred>Accessibility does indeed seem tricky in a Dynamicland-style environment. You might be able to have programs output a textual representation of their contents, and then have a screenreader "token" that you could physically place over a page to read out its contents

<jfred>(Projectors are limited to physically intangible display output, but so are displays, so maybe a blind person would be used to that enough that such a screenreader token would be sufficient. I wouldn't want to presume it is though, would want to ask people)

<Ryuno-KiAndrJaen>That's why I have chosen to render to SVG

<Ryuno-KiAndrJaen>For abstract presentations like what you subscribe it should be sufficient

<Ryuno-KiAndrJaen>The first element is used as alt text if you make it a title element.

<Ryuno-KiAndrJaen>There's a desc one for long text. Can be made more cross-platform supported by using aria-labelledby and -describedby

<jfred>That's assuming you're targeting the web, right?

<jfred>(Then again, maybe that's the right way to go after all given Spritely's aiming to run in the browser eventually)

<jfred>and I could start with something like Paper Programs rather than trying to reinvent that part

<Ryuno-KiAndrJaen>jfred: Not necessarily.

<Ryuno-KiAndrJaen>Linux desktop can display SVGs. I'd defer to Dr. Mo of Inkscape for details

<Ryuno-KiAndrJaen>The only complicated part there is interactivity

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2023-06-26.log