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<Zarutian_iPad>or just to the OS level of seL4+Genode or CapROS/EROS ?

<ehmry>Gnuxie: because its a lot of work to go all the way down

<Gnuxie>i actually don't know about CHERI but i would assume that's a cop out to add protection to languages that are already unsafe.

<Gnuxie>Yeah, it is a lot of work. So is the Spritely project.

<Zarutian_iPad>Gnuxie: you heard of the term taming? and I am not sure how unsecure the pure part of the lisp variant that goblins uses (whose name rscapes me)

<Zarutian_iPad>guile was the name?

<ehmry>better to go a layer down and make the OS safe rather than worry about implementation languages

<Zarutian_iPad>please note that I write most of the ocap kind of code in Secure EcmaScript these days

<Gnuxie>Zarutian_iPad: yeah guile and scheme are not capability safe on their own

<Gnuxie>Zarutian_iPad: what's taming

<Gnuxie>ehmry: i agree, but then you'd have to ask why you're implementing the OS in an unsafe language

<ehmry>Gnuxie: is your safe language implemented in a safe language?

<Gnuxie>ehmry: if it's meta circular, yes.

<ehmry>and if it's practical to use

<ehmry>and everyone uses it

<Gnuxie>alternatively they can just keep falling down the eternal staircase

<ehmry>I write in unsafe languages all day and no one can stop me

<Zarutian_iPad>Gnuxie: see http://mumble.net/~jar/pubs/secureos/secureos.html for debunk of scheme the language being insecure. Though the default environment that programs run in do provide access to IO directly

<Zarutian_iPad>and on taming see http://erights.org/elib/legacy/taming.html and http://www.erights.org/elib/legacy/index.html

<Zarutian_iPad>This is what the Caja project did rxtensively with js

<Zarutian_iPad> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caja_project

<Zarutian_iPad>s/rxt/ext/

<Zarutian_iPad>sneek, botsnack.

<sneek>:)

<Zarutian_iPad>ACTION confirms its guile that goblins uses

<Zarutian_iPad>bme links to https://github.com/dckc/awesome-ocap#cpus

<Zarutian_iPad>Gnuxie: was there something else ocap related I can drown you in references for? ;-)

<Zarutian_iPad>ehmry: was this too mean of me? (The link-blitz that is.)

<Gnuxie>Zarutian_iPad: not yet, i'll trust you for now but not feeling confident about taming. The taming security review you linked literally says that the darpabrowser was not secure

<ehmry>links are good

<Zarutian_iPad>yeah it is so much bloody work. Better to start with an os like KeyKos or its ilk

<Zarutian_iPad>litterally often boiling the C is you excuse the pun

<Zarutian_iPad>s/is/if/

<ehmry>i get cranky about safety because I'd rather trust readable code in an unsafe language than safe but indecipherable ultra-C++++

<Zarutian_iPad>ehmry: ya consider well factored forth code in the former or latter category?

<ehmry>I haven't read enough forth to say. I watched a forth live coding demo last week and I didn't really follow

<Zarutian_iPad>I am only half trolling. But if you are curious check out https://pfe.sourceforge.net/4thtutor/4thtutor.htm

<isd>Does goblins document somewhere what scheme values can be passed through ocapn/captp, and what happens if you pass something else?

<banna>.o/

<Parnikkapore_m>why is civo freaking dul in this channel

<pinoaffe>Parnikkapore_m: why wouldn't he be?

<sneek>Welcome back Zarutian_iPad :D

IRC channel logs

2023-05-09.log