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<Zarutian_iPad>so, this is a topic I have thought about for quite a bit over the years (not all the time mind you)

<Zarutian_iPad>a bit of terminology: a snell is like a MUD room but more general (term I am stealing from Clan Lord made by Delta Tao)

<Zarutian_iPad>it is a container like MUD rooms are

<Zarutian_iPad>but two kinds of things it can contain are special. Those are the entrances and exits.

<Zarutian_iPad>an exit in snell A is linked to a spefic entrance in snell B

<Zarutian_iPad>what happens when an avatar of an player activates or uses an exit?

<Zarutian_iPad>lets say snell A lives in VatA and snell B lives in VatB

<Zarutian_iPad>and the controler&viewer of the avatar for the player lives in VatP

<Zarutian_iPad>the avatar of the player is in whatever Vat the snell which it is in

<Zarutian_iPad>so, when the avatar steps on or through the exit in snell A, the exit sends a message to the entrance in snell B to (re)construct the avatar there and handing over control of it to the controler&viewer in VatP

<Zarutian_iPad>the entrance answers back to the exit that it has done so. The exit then revokes the controler&viewer control of the avatar in snell A and deletes that avatar

<Zarutian_iPad>so ocap patterns such as membranes and so on are definitly used

<Zarutian_iPad>heck this setup allows for wandering mobs/npcs/animals/monsters/etc that have no external controler&viewer

<flatwhatson>chip's writing is always entertaining :)

<flatwhatson>elko's architecture makes a lot of sense, and the protocols should port to goblins messages pretty naturally

<flatwhatson>i still have a feeling that directors aren't quite enough to achieve the decentralization i'd like, seems like a director<->director protocol is needed for peer discovery

<flatwhatson>needs more thought. either way, cloning elko will be a good starting point!

<flatwhatson>so... i'm missing netlayer and serialization

<flatwhatson>by serialization i really mean persistence

<flatwhatson>for netlayer, i don't really want onion (too slow) and any of the others like i2p or libp2p seem like too much work for a prototype

<flatwhatson>also ideally there's no requirement for the client to run a separate service, too much friction

<flatwhatson>so i'm thinking a basic TLS over TCP/IP as the default netlayer, and easy off-the-shelf sqlite for persistence

<jfred>juliana[m]: Aha, didn't expect to see Battle Network mentioned in here but I've been playing it too :D and yeah, now that you mention it, the fact that it's a pervasive spatial virtual environment does feel similar

<jfred>Now, just about every single computer in that game seems to be infested with viruses too though :P

<Zarutian_iPad>ACTION does a general nerdsnipe with https://arxiv.org/abs/2304.03442 and wonders how subsumption architecture plus propgators could be used to enhance the agents

<Zarutian_iPad>heck using http://www.oopsla.org/2006/submission/onward/collaborative_diffusion:_programming_antiobjects.html for hierchical path finding and https://journal.stuffwithstuff.com/2014/12/21/rooms-and-mazes/ in the large and wave function collapse for the world generation might worth looking into

<flatwhatson>can probably hire gpt to play a few NPC roles

<Zarutian_iPad>rather use Open Assistant LLMs run locally

<Zarutian_iPad> https://open-assistant.io

<flatwhatson>yes ideally, if they're good enough

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2023-04-16.log