IRC channel logs

<juliana[m]>I am once again spreading the gospel of object capabilities to anyone who will listen

<juliana[m]>what if IP and BGP and all that good stuff but with OCap security

<juliana[m]>because right now the security model for a lot of that is basically "lol lmao even"

<juliana[m]>(it's actually "being in a position to have any meaningful say over this is extremely expensive which functionally means only companies and governments could do it but we can definitely 100% trust them right haha")

<juliana[m]>ACTION is an anarchocommunist

<Zarutian_iPad>juliana[m]: something like http://www.cap-lore.com/Economics/DSR/SilkSec.html then?

<juliana[m]>I was on board until it started talking about what I believe the cryptocurrency people call "gas"

<drakonis>is that so?

<drakonis>i think the metaphor is spending money for resources and then get refunded once they're no longer needed

<drakonis>gas is a transaction fee

<Zarutian_iPad>juliana[m]: well, it is under agoric computing

<Zarutian_iPad>and this is way older than any cybercoiners gas/fart stuff

<juliana[m]>yes... the problem is less how exactly the introduction of capital exchange works and more that there is an introduction of capital exchange

<juliana[m]>cryptocurrency isn't bad because of the crypto part (i mean yes but that's only a technical detail and could be resolved by technical means)

<juliana[m]> * cryptocurrency isn't bad because of the crypto part (i mean it is but that's only a technical detail and could be resolved by technical means)

<juliana[m]>if we truly wish to return control of our communities to, well, communities, we must re-imagine our relationship to much more than merely the software we use to connect to them. the greatest promise of at least the vision of spritely in particular is that it will give communities the tools to prevent corporate capture

<drakonis>there is however a thing that's used in languages to restrict how long a task should run

<drakonis>its called gas, ironically.

<drakonis>once something runs out of gas, it stops executing

<drakonis>its largely to prevent an workload from never finishing

<juliana[m]>that makes sense. the normal physical limits like memory don't map as neatly in a distributed context i would imagine

<Zarutian_iPad>there are in MCUs, often watchdog timers to prevent endless loops or such from crashing a system

<Zarutian_iPad>juliana[m]: think of the gas thing as something akin to a mechanic in a boardgame. Say action points in various competition and co operation games.

<juliana[m]>my objection is not to having limits on the usage of shared resources. it's to having a system in which those with pre-existing power have an advantage

<Zarutian_iPad>right. The ‘currency’ in that linked document could as well been like poker competition chips.

<Zarutian_iPad>or get reset say every tuesday

<juliana[m]>the entire system described seems oriented towards economics.

<juliana[m]>i was thinking more of how one might distribute access to some analogy of IP ranges as capabilities. or how one might determine BGP routes in a verifiable way

<juliana[m]>for example, an AS would have the capabilities of [IP range analog]. it would give out capabilities to peer with it to other ASes

<juliana[m]>etc.

<Zarutian_iPad>oh, BGP routes is easier than that. Each Autonomous System signs nested certs which other ASes it can reach, (in)directly. Bottoms out in IANA certs saying that oarticular AS has that soefic IP address range or ranges.

<Zarutian_iPad>the DSR thing dies not use global naming scheme though and offers link hop by link hop routing

<Zarutian_iPad>s/dies/does/

<Zarutian_iPad>s/oart/part/

<Zarutian_iPad>then there is Smart Messages or capsule kind of packet routing and networking

<Zarutian_iPad>heck, I sketched out on paper something that I called Echonet that uses Smart Messages but via nodes that listens to many near by nodes’ “stations” broadcasting a carousel of SMs that want to go further.

<Zarutian_iPad>works pretty much akin how the Occupy Wallstreat mic check protocol does.

<msavoritias>The funny thing with cryptocurrency people is that they lack imagination. They see the alternative to corporation as something fully commercial.

<Zarutian_iPad>msavoritias: you mean cybercoin bros or actual cipherpunk people? the former are pretty much unimaginative while the latter is much much mor imaginative

<msavoritias>The former

<Zarutian_iPad>oh, those are most just hypehooked fishies

<juliana[m]>I suppose tor is actually a pretty good system for networking in which any given actor has roughly equivalent power to any other. it's most assuredly got flaws, and for certain usecases gateway nodes have disproportionate power, but... it's better than traditional IP at least

<juliana[m]>but it doesn't use object capabilities XD

<juliana[m]>so what is a smart message?

<Zarutian_iPad> https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cluster=10663855105176827054&hl=en&as_sdt=0,5

<juliana[m]>juliana[m]: or maybe i'm thinking of how i2p works... idr the details of the protocols. i know tor is more interested in anonymity than egality

<Zarutian_iPad>s/most just/mostly just/

<Zarutian_iPad>ACTION buffs the eye pad screen to lessen the grime and increase the input accuracy

IRC channel logs

2023-03-18.log