IRC channel logs

<yang>ok now after 10 minutes it went past that into installer

<yang>now its not able to detect the HDD

<yang>it only detects CDROM as hd0

<yang>sd0: timeout waiting for ready....

<yang>I dunno, it doesn't detect drives in a second try

<yang>only /dev/hd0 330 MB free, which is ATAPI CD drive

<jab>yang, you could also try setting the bios mode to "compatibility"

<jab>then booting. That would probably work best for the 32 bit image...The 64 bit image by default uses rumpdisk, which does not support IDE drives.

<jab>yang what HP laptop is it ?

<jab>also try reading this page: https://hurdos.com/wiki/hurd/running/flash_qemu_img.html

<jab>that in my opinion is the easiest way to install the hurd. Also, try the 64 bit installer. If you are using an HDD or an SSD, the 64 bit image will work best.

<jab>that page doesn't really spell it out, but you want a WORKING already installed hurd image

<jab>you can download the x86_64 image here:

<jab> https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/ports/latest/hurd-amd64/

<jab>this one should work: https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/ports/latest/hurd-amd64/debian-hurd.img.tar.gz

<jab>you just have to unpack it.

<jab>If you can get that image running on qemu-system-x86-64, then you can run it on real hard ware. Assuming your hardware is supported. Thinkpads work best. :)

<jab>I'm going to bed yeah.

<yang>jab $ md5sum debian-hurd.img.tar.gz

<yang>41aadd4c93c2a510c42a5b7169be972d debian-hurd.img.tar.gz

<yang>cat MD5SUMS |grep debian-hurd.img.tar.gz

<yang>bc28c75da087737d37a5b035395de458 ./debian-hurd.img.tar.gz

<yang>MD5SUM missmatch !

<youpi>I forgot to update the md5sum file with the new image, now done

<yang>thanks

<yang>Any idea, how to check a previously burned DVD for MD5SUM matching? (Maybe I have previously burned it with the same image....)

<rrq>check the first N bytes only... the size of the ISO

<rrq>gzipped puts a quirk on it

<yang>how?

<rrq>dd if=/dev/DVD bs=1 count=N | gzip | md5sum

<yang>ok

<yang>thanks

<rrq>you might need to dteremine N from th gz... gunzip < file.gz | wc -c

<yang>ok

<yang>i will try tomorow

<nexussfan>Hmm. I wonder if I can find a way to convert a Wi-Fi connection to Ethernet

<nexussfan>So that I can use hurd wherever I go :D

<nexussfan>i already have a free openwrt device i can use

<damo22>rumpnet could be compiled with intel wifi

<damo22>but you need to add in the firmware blob support

<damo22>cosine sent a pdf with more bugs found by LLM

<janneke>i'm wondering if it would make sense to drop the "noide" parameter for gnumach, as it is mandatory for 64-bit, right?, or possibly replace it with "useide"?

<youpi>janneke: on 64bit it's not even looked at

<youpi>we cannot just change the parameter, that would break installed systems where /etc/fstab etc. are configured to use hd*

<janneke>youpi: ah, oops; thanks!

<janneke>it's ourselves in guix; when generating grub.cfg for the root= kernel argument: (disk (if (member "noide" arguments) "w" "h"))

<janneke>so we can (should!) check for 64-bits too; thanks!

<janneke>=> https://codeberg.org/guix/guix/pulls/6840

<rrq>hmm I have: /boot/gnumach.gz root=part:1:device:wd0 console=com0,115200 ... and use wd0s1 in fstab... maybe this depends on the host(?) which is qemu for me

<jab>morning friends!

<jab>well my goal is to sell 11 Hurd laptops this month!

<jab>I can sell the T400 era, T420, T410 for $200. Let me know if you want one. I can definitely ship to North America...not sure how international shipping works...

<jab>sneek later tell nexussfan Have you read the childhurd manual ? https://guix.gnu.org/manual/1.5.0/en/html_node/Virtualization-Services.html Look for the section The Hurd in a Virtual Machine

<sneek>Okay.

<azert>jab: you should advertise that on /g/ or something

<sneek>Welcome back azert, you have 1 message!

<sneek>azert, youpi says: sure, contribution welcome

<azert>youpi: thank you

<jab> azert what's /g/ ?

<jab>@gnuhurdos is my paypal

<azeem>great, now I can't upgrade to the fixed gnumach cause my VM thinks it's behind too much:

<azeem>Error: Release file for http://deb.debian.org/debian-ports/dists/sid/InRelease is not valid yet (invalid for another 1h 2min 47s). Updates for this repository will not be applied.

<azeem>(sudo ntpdate-debian fixes this)

<jab>hmmm. I thought I saw in the mailing list that we are replacing our ntp command with rdate or something ?

<azeem>I don't know, ntpdate-debian works

<jab>I'll document that command then.

<jab>azeem it looks like debian (and probably the hurd is moving from ntpdate to rdate) https://lists.debian.org/debian-hurd/2026/02/msg00012.html

<gnucode>hmmm, apt install feh -> feh has no installation candidates.

<gnucode> https://installati.one/install-feh-debian-11/

<gnucode>I'm guessing it should be there, and I've used it before on the Hurd...

<azeem>gnucode: see https://buildd.debian.org/status/package.php?p=feh

<gnucode>gotcha. thanks.

<gnucode>the grokopedia entry on the Hurd is quite detailed: https://grokipedia.com/page/GNU_Hurd

<yang3>rrq, is it possible to md5sum the CDrom first and then compare them with MD5SUM of the files (on the mirror)?

<jab>how would you all feel about a virtual Hurd hackathon with an option to meet in person in maybe 6 months ? I could reserve us some space at a nearbyish co-working studio in the midwest (USA). There's no obligation to come physically or virtually. I just think it would be fun!

<gnucode>well, my hurd machine on the T420 (hostname: underdog), seemed to have a lag error on X.

<gnucode>It runs super great! honestly, but I left the computer on for maybe an hour or so, and did nothing to it.

<gnucode>Then the screen went blank. typing on the keyboard did not wake up the screen.

<gnucode>tapping on the power button did not turn on the display.

<gnucode>I will say, it seems like samuel disabled the X lock screen by default. That was super helpful! I used to get stuck with the X lock screen on my T43 and I would have to force shut off a lot.

<gnucode>I really should test out the ext2 journal. :)

<gnucode>and maybe I should write a cron job that makes my mouse wiggle every 10 minutes. And I should set up the terrible-ndns-responder.

<Alicia>while true; do xdotool mousemove_relative 1 0; sleep 5; xdotool mousemove_relative -- -1 0; sleep 5; done # :)

<jab>Alicia: thanks!

<yang3>jab hello, is C2Duo CPU 64-bit ?

<yang3>that is what i have in this netbook

<yang3>jab the notebook is a HP / Compaq 8710p

<Alicia>looks like yes (from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Core_2 )

<yang3>what the heck, burning DVD failed https://paste.debian.net/hidden/a0140e96

<jab>yang3: you really should try buying a SATA to usb dongle and flash the working qemu image.

<jab>That is the easiest way to install the Hurd at the moment.

<yang3>so I'd need to take out the drive?

<yang3>from the notebook?

<jab>yup.

<jab>You use a machine running GNU/Linux. From that machine you run a Debian qemu 64 bit image.

<jab>You can then modify the image. Install packages, add your user, etc.

<jab> https://hurdos.com/wiki/hurd/running/qemu.html#index1h1

<jab> https://hurdos.com/wiki/hurd/running/flash_qemu_img.html

<jab>I've been trying to use Debian GNU/Hurd on real hardware for years. Installing it from a CD is not as easy as it should be. :( The installer image is the only way I'm installing from now on!

<jab>ideally though, we do need to get the debian gnu/hurd installer image working again.

<jab>also use the 64 bit image. It is more likely to install correctly in my experience.

<yang3>okay thanks

<jab>if the HP laptop doesn't work, try out an old Thinkpad. This page lists all the known working machines. other will probably work, but we know the ones on this page work: https://hurdos.com/wiki/faq/drivers.html

<yang3>i have a working 32-bit installation on thinkpad, but i bought this HP to see if it will work aswell

<jab>yang3: what thinkpad are you using ?

<yang3>i think T60t

<yang3>t60p ?

<jab>ok. cool. I actually haven't been able to use that one yet. I have one, but have not had luck installing anything on it yet.

<yang3>i installed with netinstall image

<yang3>on cdrom

<yang3>i used another cdrom and latest amd64 cd image has been burned

<yang3>time to tesyt if it boots

<jab>good luck!

<jab>if you are using 64 image make sure your BIOS mode is AHCI not "compatibility."

<yang3>is .img the same as .iso ?

<yang3>or do I explicitly need an .iso ?

<yang3>this one doesnt get read

<jab>if you are flashing to a CD, then you want an iso.

<yang3>ok

<jab>yang3: I always use this page when I am burning to a cd

<jab> https://guix.gnu.org/manual/1.5.0/en/html_node/USB-Stick-and-DVD-Installation.html

<yang3>ok thanks, I am gonna try with that commmand

<yang3> https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/ports/latest/hurd-amd64/netinst.iso

<yang3>I am going to try this one, it's 64-bit ?

<yang3>it boots the installer, but it fails afterwards detecting the media

<yang3>I dont know where to find the AHCI mode

<jab>you are probably in AHCI mode...

<yang3>"no device for installation media was detected"...load drivers from removable media....i have netinstall.iso so I cant load drivers from it

<jab> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vdk5-Z_0FqE

<jab>that video shows you how to

<jab>enter the BIOS.

<jab>each BIOS ends up looking a little different.

<jab>in that video he ran some weird windows command. ignore and skip that part. You don't need to do that.

<jab>it could be that the install is working just fine, but that the installer's directions are misleading or confusing.

<jab>if you can, record bits of what is happening and link me to a youtube video.

<jab>here's an example of how the Hurd installer can be misleading.

<jab> https://hurdos.com/wiki/faq/random_seed_file.html

<yang3>ok

<jab>send me a video, and I'll walk you through it.

<jab>also you enter the BIOS, via pressing power on and then pressing f10, f12, f2.

<jab>it depends on the computer. Press all of those buttons, eventually you'll get in the BIOS.

<yang3>f10

<jab>there you go!

<yang3>but its some BIOS which I havent seen before

<yang3>I modified the other options

<jab>just double check that your disk is set to AHCI. not RAIDE, RAID, or compatibility.

<yang3>ok

<jab>AHCI is for the 64 bit. compatibility has worked best for me on the 32 image.

<jab>I'll add it to the wiki how one goes about entering the BIOS. I forgot that that is confusing if you have never done it before.

<yang3>ok, i am back in 45 min.

<jab>sounds good.

<yang3>you see, its really strage, that _i wasnt able to find any information about the HDDs in the laptop

<yang3>in BIOS

<yang3>usually it would say which HDDs are in it

<yang3>ok bbl

<jab>hang on...I have a T60 in front of me...just a second...

<yang3>i am not trying on t60

<yang3>i am trying on hp-compaq

<jab>gotcha.

<jab>i'll be able to send a video your way soon.

<jab>yang3: you do have an ethernet cord plugged in right ?

<jab>ahhh. my phone is not powerful enough to record a video. the video recoring is skippy. I'll have to try again.

<gnucode>well I am officially running the Debian SMP kernel. That's pretty cool!

<yang>hello jab

<jab>howdy.

<yang>I have the ethernet plugged in , yes

<jab>good. :)

<yang>I was wondering, why doesn't it deownload required drivers from the mirror..in case the netinstall is failing to recognise cdrom?

<damo22>the netinstall has only a tiny bootstrap system enough to get apt system up with networking

<damo22>disk is supposed to work in the installer

<yang3>well

<yang3>by default on that laptop the Windows 7 is the default install

<yang3>so I am trying to reinstall with hurd

<damo22>cdrom is not a separate driver, its in rumpdisk or built into gnumach

<jab>damo22: I've got a T60 as well. I'm going to try flashing an SSD in a bit and see if I can get it to install that way.

<jab>I do have the Hurd running on my T420 with a 256 GB SSD. I tried putting the T420's SSD into the T60 and booting the T60. That did not work. I don't believe that I ever saw grub.

<yang3>damo22 I didnt see it initializes the networking with dhcp....with the older 32-bit hurd netboot.iso yes, but not with 64-bit one

<damo22>jab: you seem to keep pushing the idea that SSD is the only disk type that runs with rumpdisk, that is not the case, spinning sata disks also work

<yang3>I guess the only .iso is the netinstall, like there is no full-installer ISO ?

<yang3>others are all .img

<damo22>yang3: yes there is only netinst i believe

<jab>I know that HHDs work with rumpdisk too, but I prefer to use SSDs. That's super awesome!

<jab>yang3: I have only ever installed the Hurd with the netinstall. :)

<yang3>I dunno if it would be helpful to reinstall pure debian and then afterwards from debian to install hurd? Maybe Windows 7 are bglocking something?

<damo22>yang3: does your laptop have AHCI option in bios?

<damo22>for disk controller

<jab>damo22: it does.

<yang3>damo22 this is what I was trying ot figure out with jab

<jab>I have a T60 in front of me.

<yang3>jab i am not talking about t60, I have HP/Compaq 8710p

<jab>I'm trying to upload a video that shows you how to make sure the SATA is in AHCI mode.

<jab>doesn't matter. You still want to make sure that you are in AHCI mode, which you usually are by default.

<yang3>i was able to use the netinstall.iso 32-bit for t60 a few months ago, and it all went fine

<yang3>ok

<damo22>if you can change the mode of the disk controller to be AHCI, then you can use "noide" option in gnumach command line and boot the installer with rumpdisk

<yang3>jab i also did a default BIOS reset on the HP/Compaq

<jab>damo22: I believe that amd64 option boots with rumpdisk by default.

<damo22>okay

<jab>"noide" is already there on the amd64 image.

<damo22>then you just need to toggle the mode to AHCI and boot the amd64 installer

<yang3>ok I'll try to find the settings in bios

<damo22> https://i.ytimg.com/vi/fFjwCOA2F3g/hqdefault.jpg

<damo22>something like this YMMV

<yang3>there is SATA native mode Enable/disable...

<damo22> https://www.manua.ls/hp/compaq-8710p/manual?p=110

<yang3>I have no Storage submenu

<yang3>ok