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<nexussfan>hello, is rumpnet enabled by default on Hurd? if so then ethernet should work I think. if not then i'll have to configure it.

<sneek>nexussfan, you have 1 message!

<sneek>nexussfan, gnucode says: you got amd64 hurd running on real hardware!? That's awesome!

<nexussfan>the amd64 hurd debian installer worked fine on my thinkpad t420 :D

<damo22>nexussfan: i think that ethernet card may not be supported by netdde

<damo22>but should work with rumpnet

<damo22>you may need to start the translator manually

<nexussfan>damo22: do you have a command for that? i'm not really good at networking on hurd :P

<damo22>i posted an example in the commit when i mailed in the patch

<nexussfan>damo22: thanks! i'll try it

<damo22> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-hurd/2025-07/msg00063.html

<damo22>you might need to add it to /etc/network/interfaces as well

<damo22>please let us know how you go, its never been tested on amd64

<nexussfan>okay, i will

<nexussfan>when running "settrans -fgap /servers/socket/2 /hurd/pfinet -i /dev/wm0" i get error "settrans: /servers/socket/2: Numerical result out of range"

<damo22>perhaps you need to run settrans -fg /servers/socket/2 first

<damo22>and kill the old pfinet?

<damo22>also these commands need to run as root

<nexussfan>i am running as root

<nexussfan>"settrans -fg /servers/socket/2" outputs "task ext2fs increasing a bogus port 1768 by 1, most probably a bug.", (newline) "settrans: /servers/socket/2: (os/kern) invalid name"

<nexussfan>i'll see if I can kill the old pfinet

<damo22>showtrans /dev/rumpnet

<damo22>showtrans /dev/wm0

<nexussfan>"/hurd/rumpnet", "/hurd/devnode -M /dev/rumpnet wm0"

<damo22>okay thats good

<damo22>killall -9 rumpnet netdde pfinet dhclient

<damo22>settrans -fg /servers/socket/2

<damo22>settrans -fgap /servers/socket/2 /hurd/pfinet -i /dev/wm0

<damo22>ifup /dev/wm0

<nexussfan>it seems like for me "/servers/socket/2" is just broken? every time i try to do "settrans -fg /servers/socket/2" it outputs the same error (ext2fs bogus port, os/kern invalid name)

<nexussfan>i should probably reinstall maybe

<damo22>nah

<damo22>maybe you have a different network setup

<damo22>showtrans /servers/socket/2

<nexussfan>this outputs "/hurd/pfinet -6 /servers/socket/26"

<damo22>showtrans /servers/socket/26

<nexussfan>"/hurd/pfinet -4 /servers/socket/2"

<damo22>ok thats confusing

<nexussfan>exactly D:

<damo22>i think you have a ipv6 and ipv4 setup

<damo22>if you kill all the pfinets and then remove both the translators from /servers/socket/2 and 26 you can set up what i suggested, unless you need ipv6

<nexussfan>only ipv4 is fine for now

<nexussfan>i can remove translator from /servers/socket/26 but 2 outputs that same error

<damo22>perhaps you need to remove them both in the same command

<damo22>idk

<damo22>settrans -fg /servers/socket/26 /servers/socket/2

<nexussfan>i rebooted and ran that command and it worked :D

<damo22>okay

<damo22>settrans -fgap /servers/socket/2 /hurd/pfinet -i /dev/wm0

<damo22>"iface /dev/wm0 inet dhcp" needs to be added to /etc/network/interfaces

<damo22>then ifup /dev/wm0

<damo22>do you have ethernet now?

<nexussfan>i'm going to have to disconnect from my real network to connect to ethernet on hurd D:

<damo22>wb

<nexussfan>at least ext2fs isn't reporting weird errors, but still got "settrans: /servers/socket/2: Numerical result out of range"

<damo22>showtrans /servers/socket/2

<nexussfan>how did pfinet come back...

<damo22>it auto launches when something tries to access the socket

<damo22>when the translator entry is installed

<damo22>(passively)

<nexussfan>oh

<damo22>ps -ef | grep -E 'net|devnode|dhclient'

<damo22>you might need to kill all those processes first, then settrans -fg /servers/socket/2 and 26

<nexussfan>"numerical socket out of range", yet even after killing all of those processes "showtrans /servers/socket/2" still shows pfinet

<damo22>hmm

<damo22>is socket/26 entry gone though?

<nexussfan>"showtrans /servers/socket/26" simply outputs "/servers/socket/2"

<damo22>yeah you dont want that, it will retry to launch pfinet

<damo22>youre in a loop somehow of relauching pfinet when youre attempting to remove the translator?

<nexussfan>probably D:

<damo22>ps -ef|grep eth0

<damo22>do you have the netdde interface running as well?

<nexussfan>command doesn't output any processes

<damo22>do you have anything in /etc/network/interfaces that auto launches a nic?

<damo22>you can try removing the auto /dev/* for example

<damo22>and then reboot without networking

<damo22>it should let you remove the translator entries then

<nexussfan>removed the auto /dev/* and iface /dev/*, rebooting

<damo22>killall -9 rumpnet netdde pfinet devnode

<damo22>then remove the translator entries on the socket/2 and /26

<nexussfan>settrans: "numerical result out of range". showtrans still same for sockets... but no processes seem to be running?

<damo22>hmm maybe your filesystem needs fsck

<nexussfan>i should probably do that

<damo22>try that

<nexussfan>fsck /dev/sdb1 in live gnu/linux environment reports clean

<nexussfan>nvm after doing -f found errors in fs!

<damo22>yeah

<nexussfan>still "out of range error"??? at least this time if i don't spam the command my system hangs :/

<nexussfan>when it would report the os/kern invalid name it would hang for some reason if i spammed the command

<nexussfan>it's still broken but just a bit less(?) broken D:

<damo22>seems like a bug, but you do seem to have a circular translator reference

<damo22> /2 points to /26 and /26 points to /2 ??

<nexussfan>yeah, /2 points to /26 for IPV6 but /26 points directly to /2

<damo22>can you remove one of them first

<nexussfan>i can remove /26

<damo22>ok so dont add it back

<nexussfan>ok

<damo22>remove /26 and then kill all the relevant translators

<damo22>then try to remove /2

<nexussfan>okay /2 finally removed :D

<damo22>ok now you can add just /2

<damo22>try without -a

<damo22>so only -fgp

<nexussfan>worked with -fgap

<damo22>okay

<damo22>thats oka

<damo22>y

<damo22>now you can add the "iface /dev/wm0 inet dhcp"

<damo22>and then ifup /dev/wm0

<nexussfan>also "auto /dev/wm0" or not?

<damo22>dont make it auto yet

<nexussfan>ok

<nexussfan>so directly ifup or reboot before?

<damo22>just ifup

<nexussfan>gotta move my ethernet

<nexussfan>seems to work, but i get "No DHCPOFFERS recieved"

<damo22>ok, do you have DHCP on your network?

<damo22>or do you set up static addresses

<nexussfan>yes, this is the same openwrt ethernet network that i'm using right now

<nexussfan>i use dhcp

<damo22>ok

<damo22>did you run ifup /dev/wm0 before plugging in the cable?

<damo22>or after

<damo22>it might have timed out?

<nexussfan>after

<nexussfan>it sent 4 dhcpdiscovers before timing out

<damo22>ok

<damo22>do you have mac filtering on your dhcp?

<nexussfan>nah it's just the default

<damo22>ok

<damo22>are you plugged into a working port?

<nexussfan>on my main machine (one i am using for irc) or hurd?

<damo22>i mean, i guess you only have one lan port because you keep swapping

<damo22>?

<nexussfan>i do have only one lan port sadly D:

<damo22>hmm do you have log output from rumpnet?

<nexussfan>where is that stored?

<damo22>it prints to console only

<damo22>but dhclient probably prints out after

<nexussfan>oh. also i found another openwrt router so i can test

<damo22>in qemu i get from dhclient

<damo22>DHCPDISCOVER on /dev/wm0 to 255.255.255.255 port 67 interval 8

<damo22>DHCPOFFER of 10.0.2.15 from 10.0.2.2

<damo22>DHCPREQUEST for 10.0.2.15 on /dev/wm0 to 255.255.255.255 port 67

<damo22>DHCPACK of 10.0.2.15 from 10.0.2.2

<damo22>bound to 10.0.2.15 -- renewal in 40123 seconds.

<damo22>you can try setting a static address in case your dhcp is borked

<nexussfan>i'll try that maybe

<damo22>iface /dev/wm0 inet static

<damo22>address 10.0.2.15

<damo22>netmask 255.255.255.0

<damo22>gateway 10.0.2.2

<damo22>egtc

<damo22>etc

<damo22>you need to use the correct subnet for your lan

<damo22>ifdown /dev/wm0 and then edit the file

<nexussfan>even when dhcp fails i'm not able to ping anything on that network, getting response back from localhost Destination host unreachable

<nexussfan>i'll see if i can find what lan subnet i'm using

<damo22>if dhcp fails you indeed cannot do anything on that network unless you set a static address

<nexussfan>i'm not too good at networking myself, usually i ask others for help with that :P

<damo22>dhcp is just a way to obtain an address

<damo22>the gateway is the address of your router

<damo22>address is the address you want to use

<damo22>if you only have one lan port, you can buy a very cheap network switch that has 8 ports for example and plug the lan port into the switch to give you 7 other ports you can use

<nexussfan>i actually am using a seperate old router i have for this hurd testing

<damo22>most routers have 4 lan ports

<damo22>i am surprised you only have one port for your network

<nexussfan>the only 2 routers i have is a raspberry pi which i use main (yes, actually), and for hurd, using some old google router

<damo22>ah ok

<nexussfan>i think i have the "address" and "gateway"

<damo22>you can probably keep netmask the same as above

<nexussfan>ok

<damo22>that will give you a routable subnet with 256 addresses on the x.y.z.* network

<nexussfan>ok

<damo22>if you are using the google router plugged into the rpi maybe its the router that is not working

<nexussfan>netmask is same, addr is 192.168.86.228 and gateway 192.168.2.1 (pretty sure in openwrt the gateway is the same IP as the web interface)

<damo22>that wont work

<nexussfan>oh

<damo22>have you tried plugging hurd pc directly into the rpi like your main pc instead?

<damo22>and just use dhcp

<nexussfan>that's what i did previously before moving to the other router

<damo22>the router might not be set up correctly, you are using double nat i suppose

<nexussfan>yes, i am

<damo22>maybe you could use the google router as a dumb switch, so only use the lan ports of that, dont plug into wan port

<damo22>then you would only have one layer of NAT and it will just connect to the rpi

<nexussfan>i'm pretty sure it's not a router issue because both of the routers don't work even after going through the settings of the google router and finding the gateway, etc. still doesn't work. D:

<nexussfan>and even with putting manual addresses it doesn't use those when i check ifconfig

<damo22>this could be a good exercise for you to make it work with your main pc first

<damo22>once you have that working then you can try hurd

<nexussfan>already connected to it with dhcp right now

<nexussfan>i don't think that rumpnet is ready for amd64 yet... but at least it half works D:

<damo22>maybe

<nexussfan>i'm surprised no one else has a amd64 hurd machine they can test

<p4r4D0xum>sceen.net is dead?

<damo22>this could be an opportunity for you to learn how basic networking is configured

<nexussfan>p4r4D0xum: also noticed that

<p4r4D0xum>nexussfan: it's dead Jim. RIP

<nexussfan>what happened to sceen specifically?

<damo22>probably its down

<damo22>i am upgrading my amd64 qemu hurd install

<damo22>i will let you know if rumpnet works there

<nexussfan>it's been down for quite some time if i remember correctly

<nexussfan>good luck with the qemu hurd install

<damo22>its already running, i just need to upgrade packages

<nexussfan>oh ok

<damo22>i have a physical disk with dual boot i386 and amd64 hurd

<nexussfan>nice

<damo22>huh c preprocessor x86_64 is 86MB?

<damo22>gcc-15 is 96MB :|

<nexussfan>the binary? that seems a bit large right?

<damo22>the deb package yea

<nexussfan>oh i thought you were talking about the actual binary in /usr/bin

<damo22>must be a lot of stuff in gcc-15 now

<damo22>there is a bug in amd64 for rumpnet

<damo22>DHCPDISCOVER on /dev/wm0 to 255.255.255.255 port 67 interval 14

<damo22>fragment rcvd, try again

<nexussfan>so there is a rumpnet issue...

<damo22>yeah

<damo22>it seems not to handle fragments of packets correctly, or something is not aligned correctly on amd64

<damo22>i need to dig into it

<nexussfan>good idea

<p4r4D0xum>nexussfan: btw. what's the chipset on your t420?

<damo22>sounds like sandybridge

<nexussfan>yeah it's sandy bridge

<p4r4D0xum>maybe I can try to dd my hurd-amd64 qemu and try it on my optiplex 990

<p4r4D0xum>it crashes on my 930M

<nexussfan>also btw: my hurd amd64 main install is just the qemu image but put on the sdd. i am able to install it from cd but i use the qemu img

<nexussfan>p4r4D0xum: if you want device which guarantees working, you should probably get an old thinkpad :D

<p4r4D0xum>nexussfan: tried that, couldn't find it in NL

<p4r4D0xum>i have t530, but that's ivy bridge

<nexussfan>oh. does it work with hurd i386/amd64 (have you tested both?)

<p4r4D0xum>930M works great

<p4r4D0xum>with i386, even with X

<nexussfan>nice! have you tried amd64 yet?

<p4r4D0xum>Yes, in crashes

<nexussfan>oh

<nexussfan>i guess amd64 compatible hardware is pretty uncommon

<p4r4D0xum>but I'm just ddying the qemu img onto disc.

<nexussfan>i do that as well and it works :D

<p4r4D0xum>I have a lot of junk at home

<p4r4D0xum>I can test whatever you like

<p4r4D0xum>i386 works with sandy bridge - of course without network

<nexussfan>i386 rumpnet should work?

<p4r4D0xum>not sure I've I checked last image

<p4r4D0xum>need to check it tomorrow or maybe after the meeting

<nexussfan>ok

<damo22>we need to fix rumpdisk

<damo22>it does not probe on w530

<p4r4D0xum>damo22: btw. how did you start to learning the hurd? By reading the papers?

<damo22>reading the source

<damo22>and bugging people here with questions about the source

<damo22>yo-upi also recommends reading some books on microkernels

<damo22>and linux

<damo22>but typically its best to find something bugging you that does not work and dig into it until you can fix it

<damo22>usually it does not require an understanding of the entire subsystem

<nexussfan>any good browsers for hurd(-amd64)? wanted to see if there are any hurd web browsers that support js/css

<azert>nexussfan: some time ago solid_black ported Ladybird to the Hurd. You could check if it still works

<nexussfan>is it debian package? or i have to compile it from some git source code?

<azert>Compile it

<azert>you need qt-6 development packages installed

<azert> https://github.com/LadybirdBrowser/ladybird/blob/master/Documentation/BuildInstructionsLadybird.md

<nexussfan>i'll try compiling it

<azert>There was a discussion about the Hurd just 3 weeks ago https://github.com/LadybirdBrowser/ladybird/pull/5839

<azert>Probably you would have the best chances by using the version of ladybird that bugaevc patched

<nexussfan>wait am i supposed to compile it on hurd

<azert>yes you can try compiling it on the Hurd

<nexussfan>the docs say to use the "./Meta/ladybird.py run" command but that outputs "Unsupported host system: GNU"

<nexussfan>Seems like the auto compiler doesn't detect hurd

<azert>try with an older version/commit

<azert>search the one of bugaevc

<nexussfan>also "surf" works pretty well and is packaged in debian repos

<azert>great news, I adore the software from suckless

<nexussfan>i mean `surf` just works on hurd 🤷

IRC channel logs

2025-09-13.log