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2025-02-22.log
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<damo22>youpi: gcj-6 seems to need ecj1 but its missing <damo22>i tried building ecj on tag debian/3.11.1-2 but the compilation errors <damo22>its missing openjdk headers or something <ZhaoM>it seems there are conflicts while including both 'libtrivfs' and 'libmachdev' <Ribby>Is Debian GNU/Hurd libre enough? <youpi>depends what you call "libre" <youpi>some people don't consider GPL as "libre" <youpi>because people have differing opinions <youpi>they consider that imposing that the software remains under a GPL licence is not real freedom <Ribby>I consider them as the opportunistic proprietors. They probably would do better in playing Monopoly. <Ribby>That's called proprietor rights/deeds. <youpi>there are those indeed, but not only <youpi>do you really think that the people writing OpenBSD etc. are opportunistic proprietors ? <Ribby>If you ask anti-GPL about the 'freedom' to impose property licenses over free and public works, they would as a monarch would. It would be an affront to infringe upon constitutional rights. <youpi>that's a very opiniated view <youpi>I have discussed with people who are completely not on that kind of thinking <Ribby>If the argument turns towards constitutional rights, it would be debate over speech, press, assembly, and more. <Ribby>OpenBSD developers as opportunistic proprietors would need intention and motive behind the acts. <Ribby>Such as, they decided at the last moment, be it a good reason or bad, to withhold the source code. <Ribby>It's like ordering Richard Stallman or Linus Torvalds to do with their own software. A lot of power politics/games. <Ribby>Besides, the anti-GPL could just make their own software. What is to stop them from development? Would be fair game. <youpi>you're being self-contradicting <Ribby>As long as it's libre, it's the libre thought that counts. <youpi>again, that depends what you call "libre" <youpi>your liberty stops where other people's liberty starts <Ribby>If we redefine libre as what Richard Stallman wants to do with his software, then it is/was his property right to do so. <youpi>you don't to really want an answer to your original question <Ribby>And other people's liberty stops when your individual liberty start. <Ribby>We would then transcend to natural, not social/societal laws/rights. <youpi>did you really come for a question or just to expose your opinions? <Ribby>Is the Debian GNU/Hurd more libre than its Debian Linux counterpart? <youpi>depends if you consider the linux kernel libre <youpi>the rest is essentially the same set of packages <Ribby>So Hurd kernel is like Linux kernel now? Not Linux-libre kernel? <youpi>if you just stick on licensing questions, the hurd servers are gpl2+ rather than gpl2-only <kilobug>legally, I would say it depends if you install the non-free firmware or not, if you don't, they are "equally libre"; what the Hurd adds in terms of freedom is more control and flexibility for the users <youpi>if you are questioning on different criteria, you need to explicit them for use to be able to answer <youpi>in terms of liberty for the user, the hurd is vastly more open indeed <kilobug>in the GNU philosophy freedom is not only a legal / licensing issue, but empowering the users with more flexible and modular architectures is also part of it <Ribby>It's technically, at start, Debian GNU/Linux versus Debian GNU/Hurd. <Ribby>I was planning to buy a Debian GNU/Hurd (32-bit) DVD, but somehow, it's not available? There are freeBSD DVDs, but I am a bit more familiar with Debian. <youpi>you can download & burn one for free <Ribby>I don't want to buy a stack of blank DVDs (OS is 5GBs, my broken DVDs are 4.2GBs), they eventually render unusable. Maybe I should take better care of them? <Ribby>Cost of x>4GBs DVD stack is over $20 ~ $30 dollars. <Ribby>I'm just going to ask Debian or Hurd. <Ribby>You know what? Debian is kind of large for 5GBs. Maybe I will make do with Arch Hurd. <Ribby>Then another arises, is Arch Hurd more libre than Arch Linux? <Ribby>Then another question arises, is Arch Hurd more libre than Arch Linux? <Ribby>Still, the DVD search remains, even if I am on a limbo between GNU/Linux(-libre) and GNU/Hurd choices. <youpi>damo22: apparently gcc-6 was missing installing ecj1 in the gcj package, I have copied the rules from the snapshot case, probably that will be enough <damo22>i didnt understand Ribbys opinions <damo22>why bother with a dvd if netinst suffices <damo22>youpi: i think it also requires ecj.jar <damo22>if the ecj1 script calls gij with the jar file