IRC channel logs


back to list of logs

<paulusASol>ArneBab: maybe download an older, fitting version from
<ArneBab>paulusASol: I now installed Mercurial as source, installed python3-dulwich, and got hg-git. That works. Trying to install git manually failed, because it did not find openssl.
<gnu_srs>youpi: I see that procps is high up at: graph-total-top.txt. There is a bug report with patches at: #987557 since 25 April 2021.
<gnu_srs>Unfortunately the maintainer does not update the package since 6 April. Maybe you can build a +hurd package for unreleased?
<ArneBab>Does anyone test the Guix VM? I tried to install there but the install was extremely slow and ultimately failed, so I went back to the debian images.
<paulusASol>ArneBab: works for me.
<ArneBab>paulusASol: works! Thank you!
<paulusASol>The problem is, that git and mercurial FTBFS on the hru
<ArneBab>ah … is Mercurial configured with rust-support?
<ArneBab>do we have Rust?
<paulusASol>so the architecture-specific packages (git, mercurial) and the arch-all packages (git-man, mercurial-common) get out of sync
<ArneBab>I just compiled Mercurial on the Hurd manually — worked flawlessly
<ArneBab>… but I did not run the tests …
<akib>do you mean guix on hurd? i tried it using pre built qemu images from guix ci servers but i discovered two problems
<akib>first, there was no network, not even localhost. however it was possibly my fault, passing some extra args to qemu solved it
<akib>second, herd can't connect to shepherd socket after vm reboot. so i have to run fresh images every time i want to use it
<akib`>ArneBab: rust... is it free? hyperbola is going to switch to bsd, and rust is one of the causes. they say rust users don't have freedom 3 because of trademark problems
<ThinkT510>just like firefox with the mpl
<ThinkT510>wanting to protect a trademark (in effect a brandname) is very different to to equating something as non-free
<akib>ThinkT510: yes
<akib>is there any free rebranded version of rust?
<ThinkT510>for what purpose? everyone is working on rust itself
<ThinkT510>maintaining a programming language can be a massive undertaking. why fork and rebrand it? you'll forever be playing catchup
<ThinkT510>yes you can fork it (which in my book makes it free) but you just can't call the fork rust (if you change and redistribute it)
<akib>that means all programs written in rust are non-free
<ThinkT510>I disagree with that definition of non-free
<akib>can you explain?
<ThinkT510>If I write a program in rust and licence it as ISC then the program is free
<ThinkT510>I could even licence it as GPL, which is also free
<ThinkT510>writing a program in rust is totally different to forking the entire rust programming language
<akib>but the build dependency -- the rust compiler -- is non-free
<ThinkT510>I don't understand the quibble. It seems like a complete non-issue to me. The naming of something is totally separate to its function and the availability of the source.
<youpi>gnu_srs: about procps, we already have a +hurd version
<akib>ThinkT510: from what i understand, rust users don't have freedom 3, that mean a free system can't have rust, and that means a free system can't compile those free GPL licensed rust programs
<akib>ThinkT510: source available software isn't always free
<akib>can someone say me why kernel hackers dislike (and sometimes hate) c++?
<ThinkT510>so freedom 3 covers how you name something?
<ThinkT510>SerenityOS devs certainly don't share that view about C++
<akib>trademarks are the problem. they forbid releasing modified versions of rust without their explicit approval
<akib>some hackers use c++ (including me, but i don't know whether i qualify as a hacker)
<ThinkT510>you might find this interesting: and also this:
<akib>looks interesting
<gnu_srs>youpi: Seems like the +hurd version is 2:3.3.16-5+hurd.1, while the patches in #987557 is for 2:3.3.17-5.
<youpi>I mean, what is the actual problem with the current package?
<youpi>I don't plan to upload each and every patched version, unless there is an actual benefit
<gnu_srs>If there are no new build-dependencies on 2:3.3.17-5 compared to 2:3.3.16-5 of course building a hurd version is not interesting.
<jrtc27>akib: go actually read and you'll see that the FSF regard having to change the name as fine
<jrtc27>so please stop this nonsense
<jrtc27>and take it elsewhere if you really want to persist
<akib>jrtc27: but changing the name all over the source code is a huge task. see <>. it says "Trademarks are associated with some software. For example, the name of a program may be trademarked, or its interface may display a trademarked logo. Often, the use of these marks will be controlled in some way; in particular, developers are commonly asked to remove references
<akib>to the trademark from the software when they modify it. In extreme cases, these restrictions may effectively render the program nonfree. It is unfair for someone to ask you to remove a trademark from modified code if that trademark is scattered all throughout the original source."
<akib>ok, rust is off topic here. where should these philosophical discussions go?
<nckx>Ideally nowhere. There's nothing unfree about Rust. Claims to the contrary are false, not philosophy.
<Gooberpatrol66>#fsf probably