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<damo22>Pellescours: it should not be attempting to build libc from netbsd

<damo22>where did it fail, which step

<damo22> HOST_CC=gcc LDADD="-L/usr/lib/i386-gnu -L/usr/lib/gcc/i686-gnu/10" _GCC_CRTENDS= _GCC_CRTBEGINS= _GCC_CRTI= _GCC_CRTN= CFLAGS=-Wno-error=stack-protector ./build.sh -V TOOLS_BUILDRUMP=yes -V MKGROFF=no -U -u -T ../tools -m i386 tools rump

<damo22>also, you need netbsd-src from upstream

<damo22>there are 4 patches, 3 are merged

<damo22>i just did a clean build, with an extra LDADD library path and it succeeded

<damo22>it needs -L/lib/i386-gnu as well

<damo22>Pellescours: I built this commit from upstream, plus my last patch:

<damo22>* c29caa2cb (HEAD -> test-rump-upstream) build.sh: Wrap host toolchain for rump builds

<damo22>* 904baec69 (netbsd/trunk) lint: remove array creation from expr_derive_type

<Pellescours>damo22: I’m on fresh hurd image (I downloaded iso yesterday) and up to date, and I’m up to date in netBSD. Your commit is applied, and I use the same command to build than yours

<Pellescours>I’m checking if it’s not a library which is missing on my image

<akib>Any one here?

<Pellescours>damo22: ok, I installed some missing library and removed build artifacts and it build

<akib>How much effort will be needed to port Hurd to another microkernel? And what features the microkernel needs to provide?

<Pellescours>akib: I know some effort was made to make hurd running with L4 but I think that Hurd on gnumach is the only one that is still moving

<youpi> https://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/faq/how_to_switch_microkernels.html

<youpi>please read the faq

<youpi>really

<akib>oh! i missed that. thanks!

<akib>and what does the hurd expects from the host microkernel?

<youpi>essentially, memory management, thread scheduling, and IPC

<youpi>currently mach also provides disk drivers, but that's being removed

<akib>does hurd contains disk drivers? will hurd work if i port it to a microkernel without those drivers?

<youpi>disk drivers will come from rump

<youpi>that's currently done, see IRC logs, damo22 is on it

<akib>where's the log

<akib>?

<youpi>see topic

<akib>what is rump? i found an wikipedia article on rump kernels, is this what you mean?

<youpi>yes

<youpi>see the rump kernel page on the hurd wiki

<akib>is debian hurd free (as in freedom)?

<akib>it is not listed on free gnu/linux distro list

<youpi>it's not a gnu/linux distro

<akib>oops! typo. i mean debian gnu/linux is not fully free. is debian gnu/hurd fully free?

<youpi>debian gnu/linux is fully free

<youpi>that is, the real Debian gnu/linux

<youpi>the contrib and non-free sections are not part of debian

<youpi>it happens that contrib and non-free are not compiled for gnu/hurd

<akib>and what about those non-free blobs in linux kernel?

<youpi>they're in non-free

<youpi>not in debian

<youpi>they're not on official debian cd images

<akib>then what's the kernel of debian gnu/linux? linux-libre or debian's own patched kernel?

<youpi>ah you mean some in-kernel-source blobs

<akib>maybe

<akib>yes

<youpi>I don't know the status of this in linux, but debian is not supposed to ship them

<youpi>if there are some of them it's a bug, just report it

<youpi>note that I really mean the *blobs*

<youpi>not the firmware names

<akib>what's the glibc and libpthread repo in hurd savannah project?

<youpi>it's not there it's in upstream glibc

<akib>if i try to port hurd to another microkernel, should i grab the source from those repo or from the official repos?

<youpi>from upstream glibc

<akib>is libpthread is merged into glibc?

<youpi>yes, in htl/

<akib>looks like glibc source code is huge

<youpi>of course

<akib>wow, it's more than a million lines!

<akib>i have no idea where to start hacking on glibc and pthread

<akib>except that i have to reimplement mach/ and sysdeps/mach/

<trollorozzo>akib: why you want to port the Hurd to another microkernel? Which micro kernel? The Minix 3 one?

<trollorozzo>Does gnumach automatically schedule the receiving task when one send a msg from say task A to task B?

<Gooberpatrol66>The easiest way to port to another microkernel to start with is to write a compatiblity layer for mach, right? So one would implement all the stuff listed in the gnumach reference manual?

<gnu_srs>Howdy, Maybe the best effort for now would be to make Debian GNU/Hurd a releasable architecture?

<gnu_srs>Contributions are extremely welcome: First issue is to finish/complete the rumpdisk port for Hurd!

<gnu_srs>Then of course USB and audio will follow :)

<ThinkT510>I know it is massive work but is SMP on the roadmap or has it been firmly decided that it is not worth implementing?

<Gooberpatrol66>it's almost done afaik

<ThinkT510>neato

<ThinkT510>I was under the impression it required major changes to mach

<youpi>mach already had smp support

<youpi>it has "just" been untested for a couple of decades

<youpi>so it probably needs fixes

<ThinkT510>It really is nice to see hurd continue to develop

IRC channel logs

2021-09-10.log