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<gnu_srs>ZenWalker: Unfortunately no :(

<ZenWalker>slowly but safe :)

<lokiscarlet>Anyone having any luck getting Debian Hurd 2021 to work from the iso? First few tries it gets locked at DHCP, now it goes unresponsive at login saying it can't set controlling terminal to /dev//tty1, doesn't recognize keyboard input even to change shells, doesn't respond to serial, nothing.

<lokiscarlet>Kinda makes me wonder if that extra slash is doing it, but I don't think I can really change that.

<lokiscarlet>(I mean to work after installing from the iso, I'm bad at long messages...)

<damo22>lokiscarlet: what machine is this

<damo22>qemu or native

<lokiscarlet>qemu (virtualbox)

<damo22>i have not run hurd in virtualbox before

<damo22>try qemu

<damo22>qemu != virtualbox

<lokiscarlet>Trying it now, not the biggest user of command line qemu so this may take a few tries

<damo22>you can use these options: -M q35,accel=kvm -m 4096 -net user,hostfwd=tcp::8888-:22 -net nic

<damo22>that will use 4GB ram, and let you ssh on port 8888 to localhost

<lokiscarlet>Doesn't like the cd drive.

<lokiscarlet>Okay, got the installer to start by switching from "-M q35,accel=kvm" to "-enable-kvm", now to see if it'll install and get anywhere further than vbox did

<lokiscarlet>Yeah I had better luck with vbo

<lokiscarlet>*vbox

<lokiscarlet>Okay after a few tries and a lot of rewriting how qemu boots, it installed... Aaaaand it gives me as many problems as 2019. Guess I'm giving up on the hurd again

<gnu_srs>An example on qemu: https://paste.debian.net/1210024/

<gnu_srs>lokiscarlet: ^^

<youpi>lokiscarlet: which problems? Problems don't magically solve themselves if they are not reported

<lokiscarlet>youpi: Problems that weren't solvable when I used the 2019 version either. It's a long story but put short, apt won't work even after fixing everything. That's when I'd might as well be feeding a kernel straight into qemu rather than use a distro

<damo22>lokiscarlet: i assume you updated the package list

<lokiscarlet>damo22: Does failing to count? That's a rhetorical question by the way. No matter if I use the mirror from the pseudo-gui or look for one to specify manually it can't update the list. And again that's best case scenario. So I can lurk or I can leave, because at this point if I'm seeing the same issues as 2019 I'm just gonna be here to watch for news.

<lokiscarlet>What in the--

<lokiscarlet>Oh right I'm on IRC. Disregard the buggy message above. Long story short unsolvable problems from a previous version are repeating in the new version

<lokiscarlet>So I can lurk or I can leave because after seeing the same issues I'm just gonna be here for news going forward

<lokiscarlet>Wait... Now the message is appearing in full? I'm confused x.x

<damo22>i am trying the installer now

<lokiscarlet>Honestly news is part of the reason I'm here and bringing up my issue was secondary because the earlier issue, locking up at login, was different from the others I usually have with hurd

<lokiscarlet>The only way I found out about the 2021 version was when someone in #minix told me about it, funny enough

<black_knight>lokiscarlet I’m also a lurker and apt works for me

<damo22>ok qemu-kvm did not find the cdrom i told it the cd iso was another disk, and then told the installer to install from /dev/hd0

<black_knight>if the network is not working it might be a problem of the qemu host or a missing proxy

<damo22>its now installing

<black_knight>lokiscarlet also why do you speak about unsolvable problems? Do you know that computers are more simple than real life and there are not such things, as long as we define problems within the axioms of the bon Neumann machine that is executing them ;)

<lokiscarlet>black_knight I mean when you put it that way, "how about a nice game of chess" sounds like the occam solution to my hurd issues.

<black_knight>Sure! Might be

<damo22>its installing now, what is the problem you are facing?

<Pellescours>lokiscarlet: dumb question, Which version of iso are you using? Is it the 2021 one?

<lokiscarlet>damo22 I'll just skip the list of them and just say best case scenario is I can't truly update the package lists. It skips updating lists and throws a warning that main/sources/Sources isn't provided by the repo

<lokiscarlet>*main/source/Sources (typo)

<black_knight>Did you try ping? Does the net works?

<lokiscarlet>Yep.

<black_knight>Did you configure your source.list file correctly ?

<lokiscarlet>Currently it's running from the only choice from the pseudo-gui installer. It can install packages from the repo if they're on the package list. Just I can't install anything that isn't on the existing list.

<lokiscarlet>And some things I think just don't have a hurd build but they still have a meta package for some reason.

<black_knight>You are telling us that it works ?

<black_knight>Yuppie

<lokiscarlet>The connection to the server works. I could install curl, for example, but anything that needs a fresh package list is a no-go

<Pellescours>lokiscarlet: did you try: apt update && apt upgrade ?

<damo22>yeh so the default sources.list is wrong

<damo22>you need to edit the file /etc/apt/sources.list and put in a valid mirror for hurd-ports

<youpi>? the default sources.list should be fine

<youpi>but yes, you can update the sources.list file according to the hurd-install debian webpage

<youpi>see the README files that refer to it

<damo22>deb http://snapshot.debian.org/archive/debian-ports/20210812T100000Z/ sid main

<damo22>that is what the default install has

<youpi>which is what it should be

<damo22>it has "unreleased main" as well

<damo22>does it not have to refer to pool-hurd-i386 somewhere?

<lokiscarlet>How should I respond to that question, Pellescours? Uh... The warning was thrown by apt update.

<youpi>damo22: that's automatic

<black_knight>lokiscarlet do also the upgrade

<black_knight>sometimes warnings are just what they are

<damo22>something seems wrong with that mirror

<damo22>W: Skipping acquire of configured file 'main/source/Sources' as repository '... sid InRelease' does not seem to provide it

<youpi>that's just the source

<youpi>(though it's odd that snapshot doesn't provide it)

<lokiscarlet>Between Pellescours and black_knight I'm starting to think I'm being treated like a child. I'm starting to think I was right in that I shouldn't have brought the apt issue up

<damo22>lokiscarlet: ok when i commented out the CD deb line it worked

<damo22>i got a warning with apt update but apt install git works

<Pellescours>lokiscarlet: it’s not the case. It’s just that sometimes warnings disapear after the upgrade

<damo22>deb cdrom:[Debian.... <--- comment out this line with # in /etc/apt/sources.list and then save it and apt update

<lokiscarlet>Okay yeah I'm just going to quote the old meme "let's not and say we did", because unlike my younger self, I may still be stubborn but not so much that I don't know when to drop something or leave

<damo22>i dont understand why people expect hurd to be 100% bug free out of the box

<damo22>the installer is pretty good so far as far as i can tell

<Pellescours>damo22: at the end of the week i’ll get back my computer with my hurd VM, so i’ll be able to play with rump again

<damo22>rump needs toolchain wrapper

<damo22>buildrump.sh -> build.sh integration

<damo22>i did some of it

<Pellescours>we want to use the host toolchain and not the one in tools right?

<damo22>but we still cant build rump libs that we can use with upstream netbsd-src as is

<damo22>yes

<damo22>if its a cross build, we should wrap host toolchain

<Pellescours>did you ran the upstream rump in hurd yet?

<lokiscarlet>I don't expect it to be. Part of the reason why I was hesitant to mention any details of the persistent issues.

<damo22>Pellescours: no

<damo22>lokiscarlet: if you can mention particular details of failures, we can fix them

<damo22>otherwise vague complaining gets you nowhere imho

<lokiscarlet>I mean if you call giving closure on an issue and then being asked about why I was done again and again vague complaining maybe I just shouldn't have been polite.

<lokiscarlet>I kinda gave the "let's not" multiple times, so it's not like I'm b****ing to annoy you.

<lokiscarlet>Or is /leave the only way to say "let's not"? Because that's still on the table

<youpi>lokiscarlet: perhaps there are just misunderstandings

<youpi>the warning about the Sources part is indeed just a warning

<youpi>it's odd that snapshot doesn't provide it

<youpi>but that's not related to the hurd itself

<youpi>but that'll only prevent you from running apt-get source

<youpi>apt install should be working fine

<youpi>e.g. "apt install git" works fine in my tests

<lokiscarlet>youpi: The misunderstanding is when I pretty much warned that it would be pointless to talk about I was taken for a whining child. This is the last I'll say this, at this point I can lurk or leave

<youpi>again, I believe it's just a problem of communication

<lokiscarlet>As do I, so let's not

<youpi>I don't think people are here calling you a whining child

<damo22>Pellescours: i cant quite build the upstream libs with my host toolchain yet

<youpi>damo22: better not recommend using the q35 machine, that'd put the CD on sata, that gnumach has trouble handling. Really, what the README file says should be fine :)

<damo22>ok

<damo22>sorry

<damo22>i did a few hacks in the build.sh and its building with my toolchain but i cant seem to override warnings are errors

<hurdvm>greetings all

<hurdvm>just got 2021 debian hurd installed from the DVD

<hurdvm>out of curiosity what browsers are available? I see dillo is there but no netsurf

<hurdvm>sweet, qutebrowser is available

<hurdvm>well, I've been pleasantly surprised with the hurd

<llpereira>does anyone knows if rustc is running over Debian GNU/HURD (or other Hurd "distribution")?

<llpereira>I didn't found it on Debian's pages.

<ThinkT510>I tried installing rustup from the website earlier today and the script says it doesn't recognise the OS

<ThinkT510>looks like the don't have a target triple for the hurd

<llpereira>It's possibile...

<llpereira>I thought that the debian package was ok

<jrtc27>LLVM supports Hurd these days but Rust does not because its libc crate is insane and requires duplicating the entire libc interface, including the layouts of all relevant structs

<jrtc27>AFAIK nobody has yet done all that work to port the libc crate

<jrtc27>but most other things *probably* just work for Rust

<ThinkT510>I was pleasantly surprised that haiku ported over rust. must have been quite an effort

<llpereira>hmmm

<jrtc27>looks to be about 3k LoC

<llpereira>HAIKU OS?

<jrtc27>don't know how complete their bindings are though

<jrtc27>no the definitions in the libc create

<jrtc27>*crate

<ThinkT510>I know cargo runs and I managed to compile and run du-dust on haiku

<ThinkT510>that one doesn't have a huge amount of dependancies

<jrtc27>given freebsd's are 4.4k ignoring per-arch files I suspect the haiku one is rather less complete

<llpereira>hmmm, i thought that HAIKU was rewrote in RUST...

<ThinkT510>I tried others but ran into issues

<ThinkT510>no, haiku is not written in rust

<ThinkT510>would be awesome if it was

<ThinkT510>are you thinking of redox?

<llpereira>No, I know redox

<llpereira>Sorry for my misspelling. I understood that you wanted to talk that HAIKU was rewrote....

<llpereira_>GNU March in RUST would be interesting 😂

<ThinkT510>a mach and a hurd rewrite in rust would be amazing but I doubt that will ever happen (I'd love to be proved wrong)

<black_knight>Wouldn’t be already amazing to be able to write new translators and user space device drivers in Rust?

<black_knight>Apparently porting the Rust to a new platform is a lot of copy paste work

<gnu_srs1>black_knight: Good luck porting rust to GNU/Hurd :)

<black_knight>Not gonna do that myself: I know I don’t have the necessary attention span for such projects. Probably an AI would be better suited for such a task

<Gooberpatrol66>get github copilot to do it /s

<black_knight>.. get a perl script to do it for you ..

IRC channel logs

2021-09-02.log