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2021-07-02.log
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<durango>I spent the evening trying to install Hurd 0.0 (with nethack included) on virtualbox . ‘97 Grub doesn’t recognize the partitions created by modern netbsd. And ‘97 netbsd doesn’t seem compatible with virtual box ide drive. Any ideas? <durango>Do you guys remember the last version of netbsd before the transition from 4.2BSD disklabels to their own? I could try that.. another thing is to try bochs instead of virtualbox <damo22>durango: it works in qemu with the image from the topic <durango>damo22: I did that already. I want to install hurd-0.0 from 1997 <durango>because I find that more interesting <durango>from an historical perspective, in '97 you had NetBSD 1.3, Linux 2.0 and the Hurd 0.0. And all of them could have become the GNU kernel <damo22>well weve come full circle and now we are trying to use NetBSD 9 kernel drivers in userspace <damo22>i mean who wants to reinvent drivers for hardware <kilobug>durango: there is something I don't get with your problem, if you're using a virual machine (virtualbox or whatever) why do you need the partition table to be compatible between host and guest system ? can't you use a disk image with its own partition table for the guest ? <durango>kilobug grub in '97 expected NetBSD partition/labels. It turns out it is extremely difficult to create such an image right now <kilobug>durango: hum I'm pretty sure it worked with standard old-school DOS partition tables <damo22>durango: what about fdisk and using a BSD label <durango>it seems like the development system for GNU was NetBSD <damo22>durango: Command (m for help): b <damo22>There is no *BSD partition on /dev/zero. <damo22>The device (null) does not contain BSD disklabel. <damo22>Do you want to create a BSD disklabel? [Y]es/[N]o: y <durango>on hurd version 0.0 I can run 'while true; yes & kill $!; done' without hanging the system. I'm satisfied <durango>on hurd version 0.0 I can run 'while true; do yes & kill $!; done' without hanging the system. I'm satisfied <durango>my macosx that runs my hw feels soulless in comparison <psydroid>why couldn't much of the work done on Mach in Mac OS X be merged back into GNU Mach? <psydroid>seeing that it got ported to several architectures <youpi>because Mach kernel sources have diverged a lot <youpi>so it's not an easy thing to do, far from it <durango>I can imagine things like partition tables, device number and names have all been Linuxed <dstolfa>to be fair, linux does have pretty reasonable device names <dstolfa>way more reasonable than other systems <jrtc27>freebsd has tons of different names for things based on which driver it is <jrtc27>linux gives you sdX for most block devices (though I think NVMe is differentiated?) and ethN for most NICs <jrtc27>macos is the other extreme, everything is diskN <jrtc27>also, why use letters rather than numbers for disks... <durango>yep but I guess the greatest divergencies are substantial like multithreading and other features that are more common today than back then <dstolfa>jrtc27: i haven't had linux give me `ethN` and `sdX` for at least 8 years now <dstolfa>it was always `enpXsY`, `wlpX..........` and so on <jrtc27>that's all done by udev in userspace <dstolfa>i mean yeah, i should have said "linux in the eyes of an end user" instead of "linux the kernel implementation" <jrtc27>and sdX are absolutely still around <jrtc27>unless you have NVMe, when it's the saner nvmeN <jrtc27>hm, nvmeNn1 apparently, not sure what the 1 is for <dstolfa>jrtc27: i think the n1 is the controller namespace <dstolfa>at least that's what i thought it was <paulusASol>durango: I guess the main advantage Linux had in 1996 over the HURD was already having attracted the developers. <gnu_srs2>damo22: Seems like arbiter+ext2fs shows the problem already w/o rumpdisk: <gnu_srs2>lrwxrwxrwx 0 4294967295 root 13 Jan 1 1970 /proc/2/exe -> /hurd/startup <gnu_srs2>lrwxrwxrwx 0 4294967295 root 13 Jan 1 1970 /proc/5/exe -> /hurd/startup <gnu_srs2>and no no fs process, as for normal boot: lrwxrwxrwx 0 4294967295 root 2 Jan 1 1970 5/exe -> fs