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<gnu_srs1>youpi: Reverting gnumach to 28b53508aa4cd06933fa1bcbbaa791ad12ecbf51: Date: Tue Jan 28 00:48:58 2020 +0100 made hurd booting again :) <gnu_srs1>Problems are probably some of the 64bit commits. <damo22>gnu_srs1: are you using a debian system? <gnu_srs1>damo22: No, everything is cross-compiled from tarballs. <gnu_srs1>I use a Debian GNU/Linux system as host box, however. <damo22>gnu_srs1: sounds difficult, any particular reason you do that when debian is already packaged? <gnu_srs1>I was considering cross-compiling the Guix bootstrap tarballs (not needed now I believe). <gnu_srs1>Additionally on could port SW requiring bootstrapping from itself like gpc, rust, etc. <gnu_srs1>And other Hurd distros might benefit, like arch-hurd. <damo22>i saw that guix can launch qemu and boot a bootstrapped system from scratch? <damo22>is that a cross compiled bootstrap from scratch? <gnu_srs1>I don't think Guix has a successful boot yet. <gnu_srs1>Yes they are. My cross-compilation is from scratch with git sources for hurd, gnumach and mig and tarballs for the rest. <damo22>i mean its a pity to duplicate all that effort <damo22>you probably already know a few tricks with the compilation that you can share with each other <damo22>i dont know anything about guix but it seems like the recipes are well defined, and once you write one, you can share it <damo22>instead of hand coding a bash script to compile a bunch of tarballs i guess :shrugs: <youpi>gnu_srs1: perhaps try 00fe44e565d0ec292bb06a5677ee175cd0851a69 <youpi>which I'm sure have been tested <rekado>with Guix we are currently stuck with ext2fs seemingly freezing on boot. <rekado>I’ll try using our cross-built ext2fs in the Debian GNU/Hurd image to see which of the things isn’t working. <rekado>(and the other way around may make sense to test, too) <damo22>i am working on rump disk drivers <gnu_srs1>As soon as the gnumach problems are solved, I'll try to get the scripts published at savannah under the Hurd group. <civodul>rekado: janneke noticed that that our non-boot dynamically-linked ext2fs hangs similarly <rekado>damo22: I’d love to get more rump drivers. <damo22>rekado: are you aware of the underlying ext2fs translator needing a special flag in the dev node set to attach the translator? <rekado>janneke: rumpkernel, the NetBSD stuff that allows the Hurd to reuse NetBSD drivers. <gnu_srs1>youpi: Version 00fe44e565d0ec292bb06a5677ee175cd0851a69 fails :( <youpi>"Going forward in time now. " are you not using git bisect? <damo22>rekado: i will make net and audio work after i get disk working <youpi>for audio, remember that Robert did some work already, better base on it :) <youpi>also, we'd probably want to work on usb before network (since we already hvae network from netdde, it's less a priority) <youpi>probably needs some rework, iirc it's currently only a lib <damo22>i think usb will be easier than disk <youpi>because we'll probably need to define a translator interface for that <youpi>or perhaps just one translator that contains the USB drivers and expose a disk device interface *janneke looks up from under their stone <damo22>janneke: dont worry, soon you will have a userspace disk driver <youpi>gnu_srs1: a manual is not a tutorial, rather read a tutorial <damo22>its working actually just not for / <janneke>(...and a man-page is not a manual ;-) *janneke build another guix image, now with all debian-hurd tarballs&patches <rekado>lots of details on how rumpkernel and hurd can be joined <youpi>janneke: in the sense I know "manual", it is <youpi>i.e. the details of what option is there, what it does etc. <youpi>but surely not an introductio nindeed *janneke likes info pages much better :-) <youpi>rekado: is that report linked from the wiki? <youpi>sure, info pages are meant to be introductive <youpi>then please add it at a proper place <rekado>I had it downloaded a long time ago and searched the title in DDG <damo22>building rumpkernel was tedious but robert did a good job packaging most of it <damo22>i noticed all the copyright notices were added to the deb package <damo22>that would have taken ages to compile <damo22>i mean just the list of copyrights <damo22>ive kept all that but updated the rumpkernel package to latest upstream <damo22>the userspace pci component needed a fair bit of work, im glad its mostly all working now <janneke>civodul: aaargh! /exactly/ the same result: "start ext2fs: " <hang> *janneke is going to try all gnumach patches too <youpi>note that this hang is not uncommon <youpi>it seems there is a race in the bootstrap there <youpi>sometimes I have to retry a few times <damo22>ive also seen this when my fs was prepared externally by linux <damo22>something related to the translators not being settrans'd <janneke>youpi: hmm, okay! (i haven't seen this before using the debian image in the topic) <civodul>janneke: this one's 100% reproducible though, and not just for the bootstrap ext2 <janneke>yes; could still be something in patched mach headers that expand to wrong code <damo22>i had an issue where there were stale .defs files lying around in the build tree ***bpsecret- is now known as bpsecret
<damo22>is there a channel for offtopic chatter? <youpi>gnu_srs1: how do you call ./configure for gnumach? <damo22>im feeling very isolated... :( i worked a week from home and hardly spoke to a soul <youpi>well, chatter is welcome here when there is no technical discussion going on :) <youpi>I don't remember your situation, are you a student? <damo22>i used to be, now im a fully fledged worker <damo22>been working for 3 years in the same job <youpi>so you don't really have colleagues in your IT department I guess? <damo22>i work in bioinformatics, not really IT <youpi>in our research team we had a virtual apero yesterday evening <youpi>I don't know what the proper english word would be <youpi>having snacks & beers and chatting <damo22>i like to work on hurd because i feel it is a good goal to complete a GPLv3 OS <damo22>i also have grown to like a microkernel model instead of monolithic <youpi>the provided flexibility really is nifty yes <damo22>also, theres less baggage i find with hurd than say the linux based systems i have used <youpi>which kind of baggage do you think of? <damo22>theyre the main ones i dont like <damo22>i mean tagging files with security metadata might not be a bad idea, but i dont like how it is managed <youpi>fortunately pipewire is coming :) <damo22>if it is based on ALSA, i fear it wont be much better <youpi>it is based on alsa, but done by multimedia people <damo22>you can request different quality buffers with different expected latencies from coreaudio and simultaneously align two clocks from two sound cards to make an aggregate <damo22>but even pipewire devs cant fix this <damo22>i think we have a chance of fixing it in hurd, because its not monolithically tied to the kernel <damo22>basically audio on GNU is screwed unless someone fixes it <gnu_srs1>youpi: configure --build=x86_64-linux-gnu --host=i686 -pc-gnu --enable-kdb --enable-kmsg --enable-pae --prefix=/tools <damo22>because the lowest level needs work <youpi>gnu_srs1: try without --enable-pae <youpi>possibly I broke that variant <youpi>yes, with enable-pae it doesn't boot, I'll have a look <youpi>in the meanwhile you can avoid --enable-pae, that'll just limit your memory to 1GB <civodul>youpi: with the Guix-built binaries, the page fault of ext2fs in disk_cache_init is not serviced <civodul>the thing just hangs, as if the pager never got a message <janneke>civodul: ah, that dereference is supposed to communicate by page-fault? <civodul>janneke: yes, it's supposed to trigger a page fault, AIUI <civodul>and that page fault is supposed to be served by ext2fs' pager <rekado>damo22: oh, another bioinfo person! *rekado works for a bioinfo research group <youpi>gnu_srs1: I believe I have fixed the issue with PIE <youpi>the bisect was indeed very useful