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2026-05-20.log
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<ieure>untrusem, LibreWolf 151.0-1 is out, are you able to handle the 151.x updates? <stephen1>i dont know how to succinctly explain the scenario, but if i had to switch from uefi to bios, is there a faster way to do it than running guix system install after updating the config.scm to use grub-bootloader (instead of grub-efi-bootloader)? I can chroot into the system, but I can't just run guix system reconfigure from within the chrooted environment. <stephen1>my first attempt complained about my grub config because i naively put /dev/sda1 in the targets and i think it should have been /dev/sda <stephen1>And now I have to sit through the lengthy copying stuff to /mnt again to find out if the grub install step will fail <stephen1>i installed my system in uefi mode. Then i replaced the proprietary uefi firmware with coreboot/seabios. So then i couldn't boot the os. so i used the guix installer to mount my encrypted disk, modify the config.scm for bios, and then ran the install. <stephen1>I'm back in my system, no files lost, eveyrthing is good. <aloys>new to guix: I had a hard time setting up my mail server in Guix, but it's finally up. I needed to modify the exim package to add the `lmtp` feature. Long story short, I needed `substitute-keyword-arguments` so I could use `modify-phases` with the 'current' exim phases, rather than the `%standard-phases`. I did not find any mention of the utility `substitute-keyword-arguments` in the manual or cookbook. Is that one of these things that <aloys>I will get to know over time? Or do you have any advice other than perusing the source code to discover those utils? <aloys>(btw, big thanks to whoever has been working on the manual if they are here) <identity>aloys: it is mentioned in (info "(guix-cookbook) Package Variants") <futurile>yeah that is odd that it's not in the manual, I guess because package variants essentially is a CLI capability <futurile>aloys: I would say the Manual is normally my first port of call, I tried to read it in sections because it is massive. Then I found looking at other people's configurations (looking on github, general searches for people blogging about Guix) was useful as that gave me ideas. And, then yeah I have also read various parts of the source code - you kind of figure out that certain namespaces are useful <aloys>identity: you are right, it is mentioned in the cookbook. I missed it. <stephen>Is there a way I can apply settings based on conditional logic to apply a section of a config only to a particular host? I can move the unique settings into new files, but I'd like to have the same base config conditionally figure out which one of them to include. <stephen2>Then I wont have to keep diffing my single config against the config already on each system to update them. <f1refly_>is there a good way I can use python3.12+ on guix? I want to help fix a project someone else started but it's using new type syntax introduced in 3.12 ... <stephen2>looking at other configs I see a common way to do the inclusion I'd like is to have the unique file import the common file so no conditional logic is needed <rustyguix>when using `guix import crate --lockfile`, dep entries like `"foo 1.2.3 (registry+...)"` are not fetched, but seemingly silently truncated <futurile>f1refly_: are you working against the python-team branch? Sharlatan probably has an issue open for it as well <f1refly_>futurile: I tried using python-next and python-next:tk from the repo to create a venv where I can then install the dependencies with pip, but it's complaining about not being able to find openssl 3.3.0 <f1refly>the python project itself is not related to guix in any way <charlesroelli>f1refly: you could `guix pull --branch=python-team` to use python version 3.12.12. <stephen>I keep typing guix when I mean to type git now ;-/ <gabber>stephen2: welcome to the club ;) <stephen2>I like having the guix source around so I can see how things were created, but upon trying to clone this morning, I get 504 errors. <gabber>i am currently only getting 504s on the codeberg web interface, even though status.codeberg.org is currently green for codeberg.org <stephen2>ah, I'll just have to try again later -- good to know it's not just me <bjc>you still have a copy around and can use ‘guix show $package’ and ‘guix edit $package’ <stephen2>I was using the source tree to be able to rg stuff. <stephen2>I need to add openvpn to the network manager plugins, but I can't figure out what in my config.scm or home config actually includes network manager. <bjc>network manager is pulled in from ‘%desktop-services’ <stephen2>Do I add the service type to my services or do I need to manipulate desktop-services somehow? <bjc>it's already in there, so you need to use ‘modify-services’ to adjust it <gabber>codeberg timing out on me mid code-review is... suboptimal <fishwaffle>Hello! I'm looking to run the OS Guix but I need a good laptop recommendation. I've heard Vikings purism and system76 should be fully compatible with linux-libre but wanted expert opinions <ieure>fishwaffle, There is no modern WiFi chipset which is supported by linux-libre. Purism's Librem laptops ship with Intel AX200 WiFi, which requires firmware blobs. Vikings is just a modded ThinkPad X230, it has two WiFi options, one definitely requires blobs, not sure about the other. <fishwaffle>Can I just get a usb wifi thing like stallman does <ieure>But you can do that on basically any laptop, no need to limit yourself to the boutique ones. <ieure>fishwaffle, I have a Netgear one that works fine, lsusb calls it "WNA1000M" and it looks like it uses a Realtek RTL8188CUS. That's the only info I have on it, it was given to me. <ieure>It's the size of a 2.4ghz wireless mouse/keyboard dongle. <fishwaffle>I will check what my model is I have I usually use on Linux devices 1 second <bjc>every wifi usb dongle i've ever tried has been, at best, very slow <fishwaffle>Ok so I wrote a Guix usb and it said my internal network card and graphics card are not compatible so it looks like I'm going shopping <fishwaffle>Any recommendations for laptops id like something corebooted/librebooted <ieure>fishwaffle, What kind of graphics does it have? It might work, but without some features. And as I already said, Linux-Libre supports zero modern WiFi cards. <fishwaffle>I have a usb wifi card I just mentioned the internal in case someone asked "why isn't your internal not showing up as incompatible" <ieure>fishwaffle, I'm a ThinkPad fan, I'd look for a librebooted T480, those are good machines. <ieure>fishwaffle, Should work, not sure what the message is about. <fishwaffle>I've had issues with Linux and radeon Laptop gpus in the past so I kinda get it <bjc>i can't use my 7800xt w/o blobs <ieure>My ThinkPad X13 Gen 2 AMD has Radeon graphics, works fine. But I use the blobby firmware. <fishwaffle>This one is 500 series so should be old enough the firmware is free? <fishwaffle>I wanna avoid blobs if I can I heard Guix people don't like it when you mention you have nonfree <bjc>it's not that strict <bjc>i'd say it's a topic that is avoided in general, in favor of steering towards free stuff, but it's not something that can really be avoided all the time <bjc>wifi and gpus are one of those places <fishwaffle>But ya I'll do it the right way first time make sure I know what I'm doing on supported hardware then try it on nonfree hardware <ieure>Yeah. My preferences are, in order: 1. 100% free. 2. Mostly free with blobs. 3. Anything else. <bjc>hot take: but buying new hardware so you can use free software isn't as good as using existing hardware <fishwaffle>My existing hardware is in use that's why I'm not really that bothered by it <bjc>if you have to buy something new, by all means, but don't throw out working stuff just for a free ideal <bjc>the world has enough e-waste already <fishwaffle>Definitely not throwing out any computers that's for sure <ieure>Yeah; a refurb modded ThinkPad is IMO the right move. New-to-you hardware, not newly-manufactured hardware. <ieure>If you want Free-er hardware. <fishwaffle>Ya irs a lot cheaper than supporting a Linux first manufacturer that's for sure lol <ieure>fishwaffle, Yes, note, that's a T480s, not a T480. Both good machines, but the T480s (s for "slim") trades some specs for style. <ieure>fishwaffle, T480 has dual batteries (one internal, one external/removeable), and dual SODIMM slots (up to 64gb RAM with 2x32gb). T480s is thinner, with a painted metal finish instead of rubberized / plastic. One battery, internal only. 4gb or 8gb soldered RAM plus one SODIMM socket (40gb max with 1x32gb). <ieure>That listing is also for a touchscreen model. I personally really dislike touchscreen laptops. <bjc>people touching my monitor has upset me since i first used computers, and now they make entire computers just for that <bjc>who wants grubby fingerprints all over their screen? why is this a thing? <fishwaffle>I actually like touchscreens because I do a lot with accessibility software for people with low mobility <ieure>fishwaffle, Same basic hardware. 15" version of the T480. <fishwaffle>Oh ok. I found one of those for cheaper but not a t480 at that price <fishwaffle>The t480s were so much I may as well be buying new <ieure>fishwaffle, In that era of ThinkPad model naming nomenclature, T580 means: "T" line, which is the high volume mid tier; "5" = 15" screen size (4=14", 3=13", etc); "8" = 8th generation of hardware design, this usually but not always corresponds to the CPU generation ex. 8th gen Intel Core; "0" is Intel hardware, AMD ends with "5". <ieure>$265 USD is a fair price for that machine, anything you can get new for that money is going to have very poor build quality. <ieure>If that's too expensive, buy a T480s and coreboot it yourself. <ieure>Unfortunately, computing hardware prices are up across the board because of so-called "AI" squeezing the parts supply and the idiotic war in Iran. <ieure>fishwaffle, For comparison, you can get a stock T480s for $150-$200. <fishwaffle>Oh the t480 was like 600 dollars that's why I said <fishwaffle>I could spend like 100 more dollars and get a framework or something <ieure>Oh, yeah, don't pay that. That's a silly price. <ieure>fishwaffle, I personally would not buy a Framework. Had high hopes for them, but they have done a poor job with the firmware updates, and are "fixing" it by using LLMs for the job. Nooooo thank you. <stephen>I considered a framework 12 because I wanted the touch screen, but I went with an x230 instead. Aside from the much lower cost, I was able to use 1vyrain to put coreboot on it without having to flash it externally. <switchy>ieure: oh really? I haven't been following the firmware updates... the hardware is nice enough at least <ieure>stephen, X230 is one of the best ThinkPads ever built. It's not my daily driver anymore, but I still have my old one with the X220 keyboard mod. <stephen>I'm not sure which keyboard is better. I like the *style* of the x220 keyboard, but my accuracy is undoubtably betteron the x230. <fishwaffle>Ah yeah that makes sense who's a good Linux first manufacturer these days? <fishwaffle>I have a star labs starlite and have been pretty happy with their support and updates <dajole>State / province government auction sites can be great for good deals on older Lenovos. <cdegroot_>NovaCustom is an option to check out. I think they have a libre-compatible model. <cdegroot_>(I keep buying refurbished stuff from eBay. It works) <dajole>The MNT reform looks nice and has open hardware, but it's rather pricey and comparatively slow. <aldum>x220 keyboards are tolerable <aldum>but X201 was the real good stuff <cdegroot_>Or maybe it was MNT. I was looking at both last week. Then decided that my non-libre-bootable laptop (Wifi card, and I think there are still no good options for that) will have to do for a couple more years. <ieure>MNT looks terrific, but the price-performance is very bad. <ieure>It's modular, there are different CPU options, you can get faster ones these days. <fishwaffle>This has libre wifi so probably a good option right? <ieure>fishwaffle, Listing doesn't say anything at all about the wifi. "61 BAT" means it has a Lenovo model 61 battery, this has nothing to do with WiFi. "AC" probably means that it comes with a charger. <fishwaffle>Oh ok my bad. I saw in the reviews someone said their thinkpad they bought from this person worked with libre <stephen>I would love an MNT pocket reform. Instead, I ordered a motherboard with the same chipset and I'll put it in a pellican case. <switchy>the pocket reform is fun, I definitely haven't made as much use of mine as I should... <ieure>fishwaffle, The feedback is for an X200, which is so old that there are libre WiFi options available for it. But as I mentioned, there are no *modern* WiFi cards with blob-free support. <cdegroot_>Let's make one! (jk, I'm sure it is _much_ harder than I think :P ) <ieure>fishwaffle, X200 uses a miniPCIe, From the xx4x generation on (ex. T440, T540, X240, related-gen models) ThinkPads use m.2. The only libre m.2 WiFi is expensive boutique ath9k shoehorned into one. ath9k is very dated and was never sold by OEMs in m.2 formfactor. <fishwaffle>Ok well I've got a wifi nub so I should be cool I guess. I think I also have a 32gb ran upgrade kit <ieure>fishwaffle, Make sure the RAM is the DDR generation and speed, otherwise you'll be trading off performance. <kratacoa>cdegroot_: there are modern external wifi adapters that are supported by linux-libre, aren't there? how big is the gap between these and ones in the motherboard socket? <ieure>fishwaffle, W541 takes DDR3, T480 (and related gens) need DDR4. <ieure>fishwaffle, W540 is four years older than T480. <cdegroot_> I have no clue. "External" probably means USB which probably means they have the firmware blob on-board. But I don't want a laptop with a dongle sticking out, my Yubikey nano is enough attachments :) <ieure>fishwaffle, I think $300 is too much for that laptop, only 8gb RAM and 128gb SSD. You'd have to drop another $300 to upgrade those. <fishwaffle>Ya but then I have to spend 300 more on a different model which may or may not be on eBay <fishwaffle>I'm expecting to pay 600 for a laptop so should I just go with a Linux first manufacturer drop real money on a system <fishwaffle>Thinkpad aren't as cheap as they used to be people caught on <cdegroot_>My personal experience with laptops is that everything-but-Wifi works these days, so if you want to run libre, it should pretty much be "pick specs, buy laptop". Linux laptop builders (S76 is not one, btw) don't typically care about libre, it's mostly a convenience preinstall. Also, older Macbooks are great Linux computers. There's a good chance that if my 2010 MBP didn't burn through its motherboard, I'd still be using it. <ieure>fishwaffle, It's not that, it's what I said before. Price of new stuff is way up because the global economy is in horrible shape, which means that used prices are also up. Same thing happened in 2020. <cdegroot_>(in that sense, plenty of candidates for around US$300 on eBay, 16GB memory should be the goal) <ieure>YMMV, I greatly dislike Apple hardware. Glossy screens, yeech. Defective, expensive to replace keyboards. Not enough ports. <ieure>Newer ones are also unbelievably heavy. <cdegroot_>(I _think_ my 2010 only lacked wired Ethernet, but apart from that, pop in ISO, install Linux, done). <cdegroot_>Anyway, matter of taste. I think that pretty much everything before 2019 runs fine, though. <fishwaffle>I didn't expect this to be so hard to make a decision on <stephen>Does the t480s have the option for a second battery like the t480 does? I almost went with a t480 but I wasn't sure I'd be able to flash it and it was really big. The second batteyr option for even longer battery life was super appealing. <cdegroot_>darn, I'm working through my YT playlist and hit on screwlisp's Medley demo and remembered that I still need to get that thing to work on Guix. What idiot proposed a 40 hour workweek? It's waaay to much, I never get around finishing my to-do list this way... <cdegroot_>Err... PixelOutlaw, not Screwlisp. Handles are hard. <cdegroot_>(Medley Common Lisp is what I've wanted since leaving the Squeak world behind ;-)) <yarl>The %default-dotguile, which is used at least I think when you `guix home import` uses guile-colorized. <yarl>This mis-represents (cons 1 (cons (cons 2 3) 4)) <yarl>But it should be (1 (2 . 3) . 4) <fishwaffle>Ok for now I've ordered that 300 dollar t580 the upgrade path makes it worth it <yarl>May someone doublecheck please? <ieure>stephen, No, T480s only has a single internal battery. If you need longer battery life, you'd need a USB-C PD power bank. <ieure>stephen, You can get detailed specs of effectively every ThinkPad ever made by searching "[the model number] psref." "PSREF" is "platforms & systems reference," it's been a thing since the IBM days. The really old stuff is bundled up into big PDFs, but most stuff 2010s and later has a single PDF with its specs. <stephen>ordering a wifi card in the wee hours of the morning turns out ot be counerproductive. Anyone know if the AR5B22 needs blobs? looking for a mini pcie that guix can run free. <ieure>stephen, You want ath9k in miniPCIe formfactor <ieure>No idea about what you bought. <stephen>@cdegroot_ ty! i was having a terrible time finding that info. <cdegroot_>But not sure whether it's actually blob-free. I mean, at least novacustom is very explicit about that bit :-) <cdegroot_>Hmm... I'm in .NL in a couple of weeks, I should get one of these cards off Novacustom. Should be just fast enough for what I need and then I can boot a normal kernel. <ph>the feeling when you build something and it work but you are not sure what you should do with it now. I've did a project in Guile to learn it and also to learn more about Guix. <ph>at least I can upstream the packages <bjc>i keep a folder called “practice” and it's full of that stuff <ph>I've made something similar to microvm.nix <stephen>amazon had the AR5B22 for like $12, but if I added more than one to the cart the delivery date increased. <ph>I wanted to try cloud-hypervisor, so I did package it and it snowballed from that. <ieure>folaht, Not sure. Does it work with LibreWolf? <folaht>ieure, dunno. I'll have to install that first. Just a sec.. <ieure>folaht, IceCat doesn't have codecs, all that is delegated to ffmpeg / libva. If you visit about:support, the Media section will list the supported codecs and whether they're hardware accelerated or done in software. <bjc>it's more compatible. you can decide what “>” means <ieure>folaht, Subjective question. I prefer LibreWolf, but you should use whatever you like. <folaht>It doesn't work with LibreWolf by the way. I'll try visiting the about:support section. <ieure>folaht, Tried the URL mentioned in your post, I just get "502 Bad Gateway" error. <folaht>ieure, oh. I'll check if that vid is still up. <ieure>folaht, The video plays fine for me in LibreWolf 150.0.2-1 on youtube.com. <ieure>Using the Guix package, to be clear. <folaht>ieure, yeah, it is probably the mirror site yewtu.be that's broken right now. <ieure>folaht, All the Firefox-based browsers in Guix have had video issues at various times, but I thought everything had been sorted out by now. <ieure>I daily drive LibreWolf, that stuff has been solid for a while. <folaht>Well I don't have codecs installed. I thought it would come with the system these days. <ieure>folaht, What do you mean by "don't have codecs installed?" The codec support lists nothing? <folaht>Oh, it does, I'll set the browser to english, so I can copy/paste the list. <folaht>wait, maybe I can start the browser in english, I'll try that. <ieure>Okay, why do you think you don't have codecs installed, then? <folaht>I just don't have them installed as user packages. It's my usual go-to for linux issues. <ieure>folaht, Installing them as user packages will not help. <ieure>If you see codecs listed as supported in IceCat or LibreWolf, you have what you need. <folaht>Okay, so then that's not the issue? <ieure>folaht, Correct. You have software decode support for all the codecs YouTube is likely to use. No hardware acceleration, though, you can get that by installing the correct vaapi stuff in the system profile. <ieure>folaht, I don't know what the issue is, if the video works on youtube.com but not Invidious, it's probably an Invidious problem. <folaht>What is the correct vaapi stuff? <ieure>folaht, Depends on your hardware and tolerance for non-Free software. <folaht>Oh, I have a simple motherboard with a built-in CPU. No video card. <ieure>folaht, Yes, but the video hardware will differ based on the manufacturer and era. <ieure>folaht, I run both AMD and Intel iGPUs with that stuff. <ieure>Tried getting nVidia hardware working well, eventually gave up and just pulled the card. Just use the iGPU now. I haven't run modern/3D PC games in ages, all retro games and coin-op stuff these days. <ieure>I updated the Guix package for MAME recently! <vagrantc>does search-input-file ... search the input itself? e.g. i have inputs that are a bunch of patch files, not in a subdirectory ... but it seems like search-file-input is not seeing the matching patches ... <ieure>vagrantc, It does not search file contents. <vagrantc>no, i mean i have /gnu/store/abcde123456-somefile.1.patch.gz ... which is an input ... but i now want to apply that patch <vagrantc>it seems like search-input-file only searches on input directories, not th input itself <ieure>You'd normally use it like (search-input-file inputs "bin/man") and it would return the full path to the first bin/man it finds within the inputs. I'm honestly not sure what search-input-file will do in the situation where it's the input itself you want, rather than a file within a store item. <ieure>vagrantc, Where is this input coming from? Origin pointing to the patch in the packages's inputs? <ieure>vagrantc, You can put an origin directly into the `patches' field of a package, that might be a better way to solve your problem. <folaht>ieure, is 'atomimized' your name of a dotfiles setup? I still haven't gotten to a dotfiles setup yet. <ieure>folaht, It's "atomized", the name is derived from the domain I use for personal stuff, atomized.org. <folaht>ieure, my bad. That was a typo. I probably don't need hardware acceleration when all I have is a "Device-1: Intel GeminiLake [UHD Graphics 605] driver: i915" <bjc>i had assumed it was because you're composing atoms of functionality to create your systems