IRC channel logs

<pomel0>hi everyone

<pomel0>Is there a way I can get pipewire to work with jack withouth having to run every single program I want to use with jack with `pw-jack`

<pomel0>?

<ccx>Hi! I wanted to look at how you build gcc to be reproducible (because I get a lot of paths embedded despite --ffile-prefix-map) and https://packages.guix.gnu.org/packages/gcc/14.3.0/ hasn't been particularly helpful in finding that (points to some package rewriting utility function)

<ccx>Ideally I'd love to see something resembling a shell script or strace, but if scheme is all I get I'll try to decipher it. :]

<ccx>BTW is the #reproducible-builds channel on OFTC active/relevant/debian-only? Can't seem to be able to join.

<civodul>Hello Guix!

<civodul>anyone knows how to update a GPG key on Codeberg?

<civodul>it seems we can only add or remove keys

<csantosb>Seems it's not possible, https://docs.codeberg.org/security/gpg-key/

<civodul>sucks

<civodul>i guess i’ll remove and re-add

<a4censord>heya, potentially stupid question: from what i understand, `service-type` on system-mode guix is an abstraction over both shepherd and systemd, respective of which are active on the system. is the same true for guix in home-manager mode?

<a4censord>because https://guix.gnu.org/manual/devel/en/html_node/Shepherd-Home-Service.html only mention shepherd

<Rutherther>Guix services are in the end just translated to code that is ran on system activation, ie. On boot and on reconfigure. They have no inherent relation to shepherd or systemd

<Rutherther>The same is true for home-environment services

<Rutherther>Although there the activation is ran only on reconfigure, unless you use guix home service in your system. Then its ran on boot as well

<Rutherther>Shepherd has some capabilities to run systemd services, so that's what you might be referring to. I think it should be the same functionality with the home shepherd as well. But its not something Ive looked into, so I cant say for sure

<a4censord>hmm, i see. ill test then if it works how i understand it

<a4censord>thanks!

<a4censord>i've now gotten far enough to understand that guix home just spawns an instance of shepherd, so my question has become totally void

<a4censord>though now i'm confused why its not loading my service

<ham5urg>my guix install stick does not boot through with an dell desktop intel gen14. a intel b580 gpu is installed. what I see are (after ssh-keygen) three lines: 1. udevd: no sender credentials received, message ignored 2. intel_rapl_common: driver does not support cpu family 6 model 191 3. error: driver pcspeaker is already refistered, aborting. Is the GUIX boot stick too old?

<ham5urg>my guess is the intel gpu

<ham5urg>the iso's here https://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/guix/ are too old to boot an intel b580 gpu, aren't they?

<ham5urg>I'll try https://ci.guix.gnu.org/build/16362433/details

<ham5urg>nope, won't boot

<identity>ham5urg: i see those messages too and i can log in just fine. have you tried pressing <RET> and stuff?

<ham5urg>identity, with the current iso my monitor got blanked out. I can see nothing. what kernel version is booted by the current iso? I couldn't figured it out

<identity>what do you mean by «current»?

<ham5urg>identity, https://ci.guix.gnu.org/build/16362433/details

<identity>ham5urg: i would imagine it is pretty recent, something like 6.17.10

<ham5urg>identity, do you boot a dGPU from Intel?

<identity>yes

<ham5urg>the a or b ones?

<identity>no idea what that means

<identity>oh, sorry, iGPU

<identity>maybe the important part should be an uppercase letter, huh?

<ham5urg>I obtained the B580 dGPU from Intel for testing. The B60 would be next if it works out.

<ham5urg>If I can 'boot' it.

<mwette>maybe relevant: A few months ago I installed Centos on old hp desktop. When I tried to upgrade (the kernel), the OS refused because the processor was no longer supported.

<mwette>Not sure this was a Centos issue or basic kernel issue.

<basicnpc>Anyone here use guix + google drive? Which software do you use?

<andreas-e>\o/

<basicnpc>hello :-)

<basicnpc>What then do you folks use for cloud drives?

<ieure>The NAS in my closet.

<ieure>It's running Nextcloud in Docker containers.

<basicnpc>(setf cloud-in-closet t)

<basicnpc>ieure: What do you do when you want to access to your closet away from your home? Do you expose your home network to the internet?

<qbit>i have a substituter setup.. and I'd like to use it to build configs for my various hosts / projects, but i want it to use the same channels (and commits in said channels) across all the hosts.. is there a relatively easy way to do that?

<ieure>basicnpc, I VPN in. My router runs OpenWRT and Wireguard.

<gabber>andreas-e: is this the "party" sign or the "giving up" sign or the "waving with both arms hoping for rescue" sign?

<qbit>atm i am "yolo"'ing guix pull and hoping they get the same hash

<qbit>i could --commit.. but it still requires the same command to run on each host

<ieure>qbit, Probably the easiest is to distribute channels.scm files to your hosts which have all the channels and pinned commits, and always `guix pull -C that-channels-file.scm'.

<qbit>mk

<qbit>thanks

<nckx>Rutherther: let me be the first to commiserate you on your impending commit bit. I think Guix will benefit greatly from this acquisition, however.

<nckx>qbit: 'guix deploy' may or may not be an option? Your YOLO approach sounds like you're already pulling in some coordinated wave.

<gabber>nckx: how nicely said!

<gabber>Rutherther: welcome and i can only second nckx's words

<qbit>where coordinated is tmux with cynchronized panes :D

<nckx>ACTION assumed pssh or the other one whose name I forgots, so close.

<nckx>gabber: ta!

<andreas-e>gabber: I wondered if it could be misunderstood as the drowning sign, but it is just an enthusiastic double armed "hello".

<andreas-e>Rutherther: Good news indeed! Why do I even bother now working on the next-master branch? :-P

<basicnpc>ieure: Sounds very technical to do right..

<basicnpc>Do you have any backups away from house?

<ieure>basicnpc, Tough times these days not giving away all your data to gigacorps. It's a hard life.

<basicnpc>Yeah.. I was fragile and afraid when I heard that a badly design modem may be corrupted too even though the software I use are all top-level.

<andreas-e>basicnpc: https://enge.math.u-bordeaux.fr/blog/wireguard.html but this is a bit cheating: It uses a server on the Internet on which I am root and which I can "guix reconfigure".

<gabber>andreas-e: well, then.. \o/ to you, too (:

<basicnpc>andreas-e: Thanks. As I mature I will consider. I'm still afraid, due to my naiveti

<Rutherther>Thank you, nckx, gabber and andreas-e... I suppose :)

<basicnpc>If an LLM can build and test a package successfully, does that mean the result is usable? I haven't packaged much in my life, so I wonder if there are some case-by-case nuances that need human interventions.

<gabber>basicnpc: it will have to pass our (human) review process and not drive the reviewers crazy (by behaving like a not too smart spelling checker)

<basicnpc>I see.. there's still a review process. Having a package built and tested with exit code 0 isn't enough..?

<FuncProgLinux>basicnpc: I have yet to see a Guile program made by an LLM :L last time I tried as an experiment neither g-emini and chatgpt weren't able to output the "hello" package correctly ._.

<ieure>LLMs are awful, I refuse to use them at all.

<gabber>basicnpc: we are a community tending a large code base, so no. having a program (exit 0) is not enough

<fanquake>int main () { executeCVEs(); pretendtopasstests(); return true }

<nckx>We expect submitters to have at least looked at the output of the build and used the programme before submitting. That applies equally to all contributors, human or Markov.

<nckx>(Input is implied, but don't expect a deep audit.)

<nckx>If someone renames fanquake's subroutines we're probably screwed.

<FuncProgLinux>fanquake: That's not very far from the truth. I've seen vibecoded python backends where the bot though using Python 3.8 in the docker image was a good idea.

<nckx>gabber: What about (error "succes!") though. We used to like those.

<tesseract>guys, is this official icecat repo? https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/gnuzilla.git

<tesseract>it is not third party, right?

<nckx>It is not.

<tesseract>nckx: official you mean?

<gabber>nckx: lol

<nckx>It is official.

<tesseract>nckx: thanks.

<nckx>I could have worded that better.

<tesseract>i compiled icecat today :D

<tesseract>i removed guix because of subtitudes

<tesseract>i will compile icecat myself from now on

<tesseract>also, this way my icecat build can play invidious videos

<tesseract>official guix build can't play invidious videos

<nckx>You mean you don't trust the toots or do you just prefer building it from git if you're building locally anyway?

<nckx>('because of substitutes')

<tesseract>nckx: i read some stuff saying that guix on foreign distro doesn't use official channels by default or something

<gabber>tesseract: that does not sound right

<gabber>WDYM with "channels"?

<nckx>Hmmm. I don't think that's accurate but I can't claim to be sure.

<tesseract>gabber: wait a sec

<gabber>guix itself is its own and main "channel" (in proper Guix parlance)

<nckx>guix-install.sh certainly asks and tries to set them up.

<nckx>I'm assuming 'channels' here is meant to be 'substitute servers'.

<gabber>we provide build farms that can provide substitutes that /should/ produce the same results as when you build the same packages locally with guix

<basicnpc>I see.

<nckx>Because as gabber says there are no 'official channels' beyond guix.git itself.

<tesseract>gabber: "Substitutes from the official build farms are enabled by default when using Guix System (see GNU Distribution). However, they are disabled by default when using Guix on a foreign distribution, unless you have explicitly enabled them via one of the recommended installation steps (see Installation)."

<tesseract>i don't remember if i enabled official one

<gabber>i am sure you can still enable them after the installation

<tesseract>gabber: i have already removed guix from my system

<tesseract>i just installed it for icecat anyways

<tesseract>from now on i will compile myself

<tesseract>gabber: you were building librewolf, right?

<gabber>that's a pity

<tesseract>gabber: if so, could you share your .mozconfig with me, please?

<gabber>so, you came here to tell us that there's a bug in Guix' icecat package?

<gabber>tesseract: if how/what? i don't use icecat

<tesseract>gabber: weren't you the maintainer of librewolf?

<nckx>That's a valid choice, just note that guix+binaries was an option. But yeah, you're then 'limited' to the Guix project's build choices.

<ham5urg>icecat? where is palemoon?

<gabber>tesseract: i don't recall that

<tesseract>gabber: sorry, it must be someone else then

<tesseract>i forgot it seems

<nckx>Or gabber did.

<tesseract>who was they though

<gabber>me? i was i, i think

<tesseract>who was librewolf maintainer here?

<nckx>gabber: Existentialism is off-topic in #guix because it scares me.

<andreas-e>ieure does the librewolf packaging in Guix.

<gabber>tesseract: i don't think we really have per-package maintainers. but we do have teams that tend parts of our codebase. maybe a look in etc/teams.scm can bring the desired insight?

<tesseract>ieure: dude, could you share your librewolf .mozconfig?

<tesseract>andreas-e: yeah. i think i remembered it now

<tesseract>i hope

<tesseract>gabber: also it is pain when you do guix pull on a foreign distro

<tesseract>this way, i will only compile icecat once a month

<tesseract>and you will also need to do "sudo -i guix pull" time to time. it is also a pain

<nckx>tesseract: What's .mozconfig? I see a mozconfig but no dot.

<tesseract>the thing is i also couldn't exactly understand the guix. i don't want to use stuff that i don't understand and i am not inclined to learn it

<tesseract>nckx: .mozconfig is for setting arugments like disabling crash reporter etc

<tesseract>nckx: i particularly wonder ieure's .mozconfig

<ieure>tesseract, It's part of the librewolf package, it's not like a secret thing I have sequestered away.

<nckx>But at build time or run time? I'm just wondering what 'your .mozconfig' means to the Guix libreowolf maintainer when it seems like they would just use Guix's, not a private secret one.

<ieure>nckx, mozconfig is the thing you use to configure compile-time features.

<nckx>And Guix's is (programatically generated) at https://codeberg.org/guix/guix/src/branch/master/gnu/packages/librewolf.scm

<tesseract>ieure: the guide told me to create .mozconfig

<tesseract>and i did it

<tesseract>i thought it is the same with librewolf

<nckx>ieure: The don threw me off.

<ieure>tesseract, What guide?

<tesseract>icecat compiling guide

<nckx>tesseract: Apart from the dot, it is, search that URL for 'mozconfig'q

<ieure>tesseract, What are you trying to accomplish here?

<tesseract>nckx: alright

<gabber>tesseract: yes, guix pull can be a pain, especially on slower machines. but i don't think the `sudo -i guix pull` part is necessary (but i haven't used guix on a foreign distro in a while)

<tesseract>ieure: i just wondered your .mozconfig

<tesseract>so, you don't set any specifically then

<tesseract>then it doesn't matter

<nckx>That's not how guix packagers do things.

<ieure>tesseract, Again, I do not have one.

<tesseract>ok

<nckx>The entire package is public.

<tesseract>dude, i don't blame or something

<ieure>tesseract, What I'm trying to figure out is why you're compiling IceCat or LibreWolf, and why you're asking about it here, because it seems like you're trying to compile outside the already-existing Guix packages for them.

<tesseract>it is not a rocket science

<tesseract>i mean, figuring out

<tesseract>anyway

<tesseract>thanks all

<ieure>well then

<nckx>Explaining why there is no secret mozconfig seemed more polite than bluntly refusing to share the secret mozconfig but OK.

<gabber>\o/

<nckx>Of course we all know there's a secret mozconfi but I think they bought our cover story.

<ieure>I recall some earlier conversations with this individual, they went largely the same.

<nckx>Ah.

<ieure>ACTION hangs the secret .mozconfig back up on the wall for us all to admire now that the interloper is gone

<gabber>i'm somewhat happy that i'm not the maintainer of librewolf

<ieure>The Guix package isn't that hard to maintain.

<ieure>It's in a pretty steady state now, roll updates every few weeks, occasionally needs a nss or rust bump. Made some Emacs tooling to help out with it.

<ieure>(The tools are GPL'd: https://codeberg.org/emacs-weirdware/firefox-release-notes)

<ieure>I packaged that, but it's only in my Guix channel, it seems like limited utility for the main channel.

<gabber>ieure: if it helps you maintain software packaged in Guix proper, i suppose it should go there, too

<ieure>gabber, If even a single person tells me that they would personally find utility in it being in Guix, I'd contribute it.

<gabber>ieure: well, here i am (:

<ieure>Alright.

<gabber>even if i am not volunteering to maintain guix' librewolf package <3

<andreas-e>gabber: Congratulations, you put yourself forward as the new Guix librewolf maintainer!

<ieure>firefox-release-notes is useful for any Firefox-based browser.

<andreas-e>Even better - gabber has become the web browser team!

<nckx>As someone who runs their own FF build, thanks for the tip.

<nckx>ACTION still needs to rip out that ‘ask a ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE’ menu item that showed up. To bring the discussion full circle.

<ieure>In all seriousness, though, the LW maintenance burden is usually low, but it's not good that there's one person doing most of it. If anyone's interested, I'd be happy to invest the time teaching how.

<ieure>Yeah, hate that Mozilla is shipping all this garbage.

<nckx>I'll install it and give it a try. As it is, my ‘FF’ package is about 100 lines of disablement anyway.

<ieure>Yeah. I'm happy to let the LibreWolf folks handle that end of things.

<Rutherther>hmm, I suppose I cannot parameterize current-guix-package in a 'toplevel' manifest to change (current-guix) that's inside of an operating-system services field... because services field is thunked. Or am I overseeing something?

<untrusem>ohh

<ieure>Was reading last week how the FF local inference stuff was buggy and chewing CPU and wasting battery. This will definitely win more mainstream users from Chrome, yep.

<untrusem>maybe a blog post would be good, but I can volunteer for this

<untrusem>I have exams for few more days

<ieure>untrusem, Feel free to ping me here or via email if/when you have the free time and inclination.

<untrusem>will do

<ieure>Much appreciated, thank you!

<nckx>quit

<catboxmoeonpw4tj>THIS MESSAGE HAS BEEN BROUGHT TO YOU BY GRU RUSSIAN INTELLIGENCE THIS MESSAGE HAS BEEN BROUGHT TO YOU BY GRU RUSSIAN INTELLIGENCE THIS MESSAGE HAS BEEN BROUGHT TO YOU BY GRU RUSSIAN INTELLIGENCE THIS MESSAGE HAS BEEN BROUGHT TO YOU BY GRU RUSSIAN INTELLIGENCE

<ente>congrats to GRU

<ente>the message has been received

<ente>amazing secret service skills there

<dthompson>GRU's Really Unix

<fnat>Rutherther: Sorry, I got back to your message re `(make-arm-none-eabi-toolchain)` only now. Ha, good to know. I'll give it a try, as it turns out I need to flash a ARM MCU. :)

<fnat>Ty!

<ham5urg>anybody who got an Intel B580 to work? I try to load the kernel module with 'modprobe -v xe force_probe=e20b' and a next echo $? shows 0. But a 'lspci -nnks 03:00.0' does not show a 'Kernel driver in use: xe'.

<Rutherther>have you tried looking into dmesg - are you sure it doesn't require a proprietary firmware?

<ham5urg>it does. I installed nonguix linux-firmware and some minutes ago I did found the firmware in the filesystem (store).

<identity>ham5urg: «installed» meaning what?

<identity>you need to put in your operating-system definition, along with the mainline kernel

<identity>and probably ask people in #nonguix for help

<ham5urg>(specification->package "linux-firmware") in config.scm

<nckx>For context, something being in the store doesn't mean that it's installed by any definition.

<identity>ham5urg: sure, and in what field does that go?

<identity>there is a special ‘firmware’ field, you want it to look something like (firmware (cons linux-firmware %base-firmware))

<ham5urg>I see, I made it wrong. Let me try to correct it.

<identity>ham5urg: and maybe put mainline linux in the ‘kernel’ field, i doubt linux-libre will cooperate on that front

<nckx>Oh, it actively won't.

<nckx>Now, if the firmware is correctly configured but still doesn't ‘work’ or fix your problem, I agree that #nonguix is a better venue.

<ieure>ham5urg, Please take talk of firmware blobs to #nonguix.

<dthompson>firmware is necessary for hardware to work

<dthompson>seems reasonable to talk about it here

<identity>sure, for free firmware. non-free is against the rules, i guess?

<ieure>dthompson, I specifically said "firmware blobs," which is commonly understood to mean non-free firmware, and also that's what the conversation was about.

<ham5urg>sorry, didn't knew that. will not happen again. jfyi, the infos by identity did the trick. thanks.

<ieure>ham5urg, No problem at all, happens from time to time.

<ente>where's the blob-free modern wifi card we all want?

<ieure>In our dreams.

<ham5urg>a guy (from within pine64) did wrote a 4g modem algorithm AFAIK. He putted to work with a small Linux, running within the modem.

<ente>that sounds interesting

<ham5urg>at least he closed the backdoors. if it is completely blob-free, Idk.

<ente>afaik blob-free means just the blob is all in hardware and can't be upgraded

<ente>in case of ath9k

<ente>please correct me if I'm wrong

<tux0r>i wish one could just upgrade hardware with a download

<tux0r>i'd need a new printer.

<ente>you wouldn't download a car

<ieure>90s: WinModem launches, all Linux people despise it.

<ieure>2020s: All hardware is WinModems now.

<tux0r>i would totally download a car

<stikonas>ente: there are some blob free wifi cards, though they are quite expensive

<stikonas>since they run on top of fpga's (https://github.com/open-sdr/openwifi)

<ieure>stikonas, Other than ath9k?

<stikonas>yes

<stikonas>but it's FPGA...

<stikonas>so I guess it's a thousand or so

<ieure>oof

<ham5urg>a llm told me that ADRV9364-Z7020 + ADRV1CRR-BOB are recommended devices for openwifi. Aliexpress told me 1800€ + 600€.

<neox>ente: ath9k is also quite simple as it does not have a complete CPU inside it. Newer cards have litterally that kind of things, thus much bigger firmware and need to upgrade it

<ente>I see

<icy-thou`>Q: how do I go on about creating a "template" that I can later use for each individual host? I want my "template" to contain the default values that I want imported when a specific module has been imported.

<icy-thou`>Does that make sense?

<icy-thou`>and is there a way to define a config that in such a way that when I exec `guix pull` -> applies the config based on hostname?

<ieure>icy-thou`, You're talking operating-system configuration here?

<icy-thou`>I think so

<ieure>icy-thou`, `guix pull' does not reconfigure your system or home. You'd need to write a wrapper script or something.

<icy-thou`>Does guix not have something that supports this feature in guile?

<ieure>Which feature?

<icy-thou`>hmmm, I wonder if I should use flake.nix as an example here

IRC channel logs

2025-12-08.log