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2025-09-18.log
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<pizzapal>hey how come the package sfml-2 is defined in game-development.scm but if i try to run `guix package --install sfml-2` i get `guix package: error: sfml-2: unknown package`? am i doing something wrong? <FuncProgLinux>Is there a way to make (substitute* x) fail if nothing was changed? <FuncProgLinux>pizzapal: This happened to me, either the package is marked as hidden or the version of guix you are using it is not recognizing it. It also happened to me with libxml2-next-for-grafting, but I would advise against doing what I did to fix my issue <apteryx>I'm puzzled as to why copyright notices changes to gnu/packages/* can cause rebuild rebuild <FuncProgLinux>apteryx: I noticed that on my channel as well. Adding comments sometimes made rebuilds happen <apteryx>I think comments inside phases causes this, as the staged code is taken as whole, not stripped of comments. <apteryx>yep, that was one of the culprits, along sitecustomize.py <FuncProgLinux>does virt-manager work under guix? I'm thinking about making a VM to start tweaking the mate-desktop-service-type to include mate-screensaver <FuncProgLinux>Without counting package updates, that "TODO" on the code and 5 more missing official MATE packages and this desktop will be as complete as XFCE \o/ <mange>virt-manager does work, but I had to do some finagling to get a NAT network to work with the libvirt service. There's some instructions in the cookbook, but I ended up doing something different to them. <FuncProgLinux>mange: I see, I saw there's a libvirt service but I have been testing my changes with my main machine <mange>That said, for testing things myself I usually use "guix system vm" and just run the resulting script to test the VM. That way I can build the VMs from my host, and the image is fresh each time. <FuncProgLinux>mange: you mean the vm image will be a copy of my host system? <mange>No. On the host you write an operating-system declaration in a file, then when you run "guix system vm your-file.scm" it will print a path to a script which you can run to start a VM of your declared operating system in a Qemu VM. <mange>Yeah, it's a really nice workflow IMO. I've spent a lot of time tweaking things and debugging in VMs before reconfiguring my actual system. <FuncProgLinux>This tool is infinite in features. Everytime I ask something I'm thinking in "normal distro means" but there's always response like: "there's already a command for that" <FuncProgLinux>I'm already considering migrating all of my machines and not looking back when MATE is 100% complete. <csantosb>sneek: later tell civodul, any recipe to reproduce crashes with emacs + exwm ? <sneek>Welcome back civodul, you have 1 message! <sneek>civodul, csantosb says: any recipe to reproduce crashes with emacs + exwm ? <listentolist>Is it possible to use or modify `guix style` to only indent code, so not adding newlines? Or are indenting and formatting scheme code two absolutely different concepts that need different tools? <listentolist>Or is there a good indenting tool that works well with Guile Scheme? I am using Kakoune and editing Scheme code is no fun there... <identity>listentolist: i assume kakoune does not have a ‘reindent selection’ command built-in? i would imagine most guix people use Emacs, and it has a ‘reindent s-exp/region’ command, or just deal with guix style's formatting inserting line breaks (what is the problem with that, also?) <listentolist>identiy: AFAIK guix style reads the code stripping all the newlines and then calculates the correct indents and newlines. I don't see a simple way to preserve existing newlines and prohibit new newlines in 'guix style'. <listentolist>I was using Emacs for indenting the code but I wonder if there is a faster tool so that I don't have to rely on an Emacs session for that. <csantosb>You may use a batch script, something like: `emacs "$file" --batch --eval="(progn (... ` <hugohugo>I'm still confused w.r.t. determining how a packages got into your profile. E.g. I got (yet another) libxml2 conflict, propagated from openconnect@9.12 and mutter@46.9 . I would prefer to remove mutter from the profile, but I don't know which package pulls in mutter. Is there an easy way to figure out how a specific package ends up in a profile? <gabber>hugohugo: is it a home profile or just a `guix package -I` profile? <hugohugo>Oh that might matter. This is my system profile, the one `guix system reconfigure` creates (don't know how to call that), so I can't reconfigure my system <hugohugo>I can probably figure out by guessing, since mutter is apparently a window manager, so it is probably pulled in by a gnome package. But I'm hoping for an easier way <gabber>the clash is between two profiles which is trying to be merged (IIUC), so you might have installed it the simple way (`guix package -I hello`) and also have a package in your system profile (`guix system reconfigure sys.scm`). you can inspect how stuff came to life in your personal package profile with `guix package --list-generations`, in your home profile with `guix home --list-installed` <Rutherther>no, the profile checks ollisions only within the profile itself, it doesn't, (it cannot!) know what other profiles you have <Rutherther>if the error doesn't say mutter is propagated from anywhere, no package pulls in mutter. Either you have it in packages list in operating-system, or a service 'pulls' it in. There is no good built-in way searching for what service does that <hugohugo>It happened during a system reconfigure. I commented out "(service gnome-desktop-service-type)" and now it seems to work. Usually these conflicts are relatively easy to figure out, but I always just trial-and-error them. <listentolist>csantosh: Yes, that's essentially what I did. The problem is that it is a little bit slow. It seems that at the moment Emacs is still the way to go for working with Guile... anyway thanks. <hugohugo>Let's see whether I can still boot without gnome-desktop-service-type (using XFCE now, but not sure what Desktop Manager I'll get) <civodul>ACTION terminates evaluations of the unintended world rebuild <mange>Does anyone have an opinion about Guix-specific search paths? I raised https://codeberg.org/guix/guix/pulls/2743 yesterday to make a way for Lua to work with Guix's search-paths mechanism, but each version of Lua needs a different patch. I'd love some confirmation this is acceptable before I work through the details. :) <Rutherther>mange: why change the source, why not wrap it / use init script if lua has something like that, reutilizing the original lua path variable? <mange>Hmm. TBH, I hadn't thought about doing that. I have a nonspecific distaste for wrapping, but let me think on it more. <mange>Certainly it would be possible to reduce the patch size if I just set package.path to LUA_PATH concatenated with a rewritten GUIX_LUA_PATH. <mange>I fear that it is confusing for a Lua user either way, though: either package.path is not reflective of the full load path (my existing patch), or package.path ends up "magically" getting extra entries that aren't in the LUA_PATH environment variable. I *guess* the latter is less confusing? <lee-thomp>csantosb: I mean which scheme file under gnu/packages/ should the package definition be added to? I've nearly got it building as a guix package, just fixing check phase at the moment <csantosb>I see. "sleep tracking program for reviewing CPAP and Oximetry data, which are devices used in the treatment of Sleep Disorders like Obstructive Sleep Apnea" <lee-thomp>indeed, I can't see any other sleep apnea or sleep tracking software packaged for guix currently <mange>Would gnu/packages/medical.scm be appropriate? <csantosb>There is a python-science module. Maybe a qt-science is a good idea. <lee-thomp>I totally missed the medical.scm file, my bad <lee-thomp>csantosb: having a look at both medical and python-science I think medical.scm might be the best place for OSCAR vs. some qt-science, especially seeing mygnuhealth at the top of medical.scm, what do you think? <csantosb>lee-thomp: You're right, medical is fine. <mange>Rutherther: Having thought about it more, we can't wrap Lua or use an init script because Lua is both a program, and a library. When used as a library there is nothing we can wrap/call, because any wrapper we put would be sidestepped. That said, patching the Lua path is possible, and it may be enough to treat the transformed GUIX_ paths as the "default" path. <mange>I think that would simplify my patch, while also being less surprising. <jbnote>Hi there, can someone enlighten me on how what is the current workflow to submit a patch for the initrd? Do we need to open a bug on the mailing lists, and link a PR on codeberg? Just open a PR on codeberg? Something else? <Rutherther>why would you need to open a bug on the mailing list? <jbnote>I don't know, previously, I reported a bug and sent a patch through some mailing lists. I guess I didn't read the manual close enough; the devel version is uptodate with the codeberg workflow, actually :) <jbnote>I see from the manual that even the bugs are tracked through codeberg now? So this is the official way to report a bug? <identity>why do we even have the manual from 1.4.0 on the website? it would make sense to have a release manual up if we made regular releases, but 1.4.0 is 3 years old at this point and is mostly unused <civodul>we used to do regular releases :-) and plan to do that again <identity>the gap between “used to” and “will do again” is still 3 years of people wondering “why does the manual seem out of sync?”… <jbnote>I often stumble upon the 1.4.0 manual through google. I now know that I need to add /devel/ somewhere in the URL, but I gather for newcomers this is probably problematic. Not to mention that they miss on a lot of feature in the services, or can use deprecated features. <jbnote>Maybe just asking google not to index it would be a big win IMO. <civodul>there’s also a menu at the top to switch between stable and devel <hugohugo>I've been at least twice in the situation that I wanted to do something and that it was added to the devel version of the manual just a few weeks before. So it seems always useful to look into the latest manual :). And the manual is awesome, it has so much information <csantosb>civodul: Tried with `exec emacs --debug-init` ? <csantosb>Forget about. Your issue comes well after the init. <redacted>civodul: I've also been getting crashes. I'm looking through your PR to see if it seems related. <redacted>Could be wrong, but the libxml warnings don't look related. <redacted>Ah, maybe this is unrelated to my problem. I'm not running EXWM and elogind appears uninvolved in my case. <dthompson>civodul: I'm deep in the weeds of the shepherd process monitoring code rn. do you know if shepherd can guarantee that a SIGCHLD is not handled prior to awaiting the respective pid? it feels like a race condition that doesn't seem to happen in practice but I'm not 100% sure <jbnote>The new workflow is so easy it's daunting! <redacted>Guix caches the source code of channels, but that source code doesn't end up in /run/current-system, correct? <redacted>I'm trying to figure out if moving all my config files into a private channel would make the configuration file "self-contained" as the docs describe. <redacted>"If you want ‘configuration.scm’ to be self-contained, we recommend that modules or files it refers to be part of a channel." <redacted>It seems that, if I deploy a system with "guix deploy", the remote system won't be self contained if I'm using a file:// url for the channel. <redacted>(Unless I also copy over the contents of the channel) <tusharhero>how can I make guix use the fast substitution server? <tusharhero>futurile: I think you misunderstand, I have added multiple ones already in my system configurations, I want guix to automatically select the fastest substition server among them. <e3bc54b2>I'm an avid Nix-er, and cursory google search didn't provide satisfactory results, so gonna ask <futurile>tusharhero: ah, there's no way to do that <futurile>tusharhero: well, no way that I know off - it will automatically try and use them all <e3bc54b2>Is there a mechanism for GuixSD akin to flakes or niv for Nix? i.e. a 'pure' evaluation with only explicit inputs, unlike depending on channels from env? <Rutherther>e3bc54b2: you can use guix time-machine with a 'locked' channels scheme file. To generate that file you can do something like "guix time-machine -C channels.scm -- guix describe -f channels", where the channels.scm is 'unlocked' channels, something like inputs in a flake. There is no pure evaluation with Guix though <e3bc54b2>Also, is the binary cache/substitute available for aarch64? I couldn't find any, but better to confirm <Rutherther>yes, the official servers do have substitutes for aarch64 <e3bc54b2>I have an RPi lying around and usually I put NixOS on all servers, but its also pretty good target for Guix <e3bc54b2>Rutherther: nice! I'll probably check it out over the weekend <jbnote>do you have a recommended workflow to hack on several guix branches simultanneously? Do you use different profiles for different guix versions? <apoorv569>Can someone please look at PR #2276 and #2277 on Codeberg? Both packages have been broken on Guix for long time now. <FuncProgLinux>The mate-desktop-service is missing the screensaver package, I'm looking at XFCE and it has (define (xfce-pam-services config) (list (unix-pam-service "xfce4-screensaver"))) would it be as trivial as doing (define (mate-pam-services config) (list (unix-pam-service "mate-screensaver"))) and then add a (service-extension pam-root-service-type mate-pam-service) to remove that TODO from the services.scm file in master? :) <Rutherther>FuncProgLinux: that's just a pam rule - so that the password is accepted. It doesn't add a screensaver, so if package for screensaver is currently missing from mate packages, it will still be missing <Rutherther>the only time it would help would be if there is already a screensaver, but mate is smart enough to disable it without the pam rule so that you don't end up locked out <FuncProgLinux>Rutherther: The package exists and it's on it's latest available version, but the mate.scm package under gnu/packages has another FIXME that reads: "There is a permissions problem with screen locking which effectively locks you out completely. Enable locking once this has been fixed." <Rutherther>oh wait it's just in the source, at first I thought it's mate saying that <FuncProgLinux>If that issue has been fixed maybe someone forgot to add it "later" <Rutherther>that fixme sounds like you will still need to also enable the locking somewhere, not sure where exactly. So just adding pam rule wouldn't be sufficient <jbnote>does anyone running the guix-daemon unpriviledged also have problems with guix gc not doing its job anymore and crashing right after "finding garbage collector roots" ? <jbnote>switching back and forth between unpriviledged and priviledged mode just for GC is really painful :) <Rutherther>yes, it has been reported and fixed today. Though the guix package still hasn't been updated so just pulling doesn't work, you would have to update guix in guix-service-type manually <Rutherther>still, you can't see the gc roots under homes of users so the gc cannot currently know if shells and inferiors are still gc rooted. There is a pr for that, but not merged yet. But it shouldn't be crashing anymore <FuncProgLinux>Rutherther: I think that's on the dbus side the xfce4-screensaver package has that, and the mate-screensaver package at the guix without guile also contains dbus-related fixes ? <jbnote>Rutherther: thanks. I've switched the homes a+rx already so that the roots can be read. The crash was happening afterwards, and i'm glad it's fixed. <dthompson>how's kde desktop support in guix these days? <kestrelwx>Mastodon doesn't show the message content in eww. :P <FuncProgLinux>I don't know what goblins is, but the visuals of the account are on another level 🤯 like watercolour paintings, it's beautiful <cwebber>those visuals are by myself and David Revoy :) <cwebber>FuncProgLinux: if you don't know anything about Spritely Goblins you might want to learn! <FuncProgLinux>cwebber: I liked it :) never saw a guix..."V" of other colours. I'm looking at the docs og Spritely Goblins, is it like remote development environments? (0.16.1) <luca>I haven't had the time to watch that goblins presentation, but hoot and everything artistically about spritely.institute looks awesome <cwebber>FuncProgLinux: it's more like if you wrote code and it's easily securely collaborative across p2p environments <awth13>cwebber: this is exciting, thanks for sharing <dthompson>there are some interesting future directions we can go in once shepherd can be used in a distributed manner <awth13>I haven't heard of any of this before but then again I'm pretty new to this channel <snoopdogg>anyone tell me reasons why I should use Guix over NixOS <snoopdogg>My current gripe with NixOS is that there's always something in my config that needs improving <FuncProgLinux>snoopdogg: Well...given that gripe I don't know if this will help but essentially it doesn't use nix-lang, instead it boils down to a very powerful scheme library. Community package are very much fragmented across the internet of schemes But it's really nice once you get some hold of it. <snoopdogg>one thing i don't like about nixos is that i always seem to be stuck in unstable because releases happen in an awkward month <snoopdogg>i want shiny thing but it's on unstable but then everything becomes a tug of war because it's unstable <FuncProgLinux>mmmmm, Guix is a rolling release but some packages are newer, others are older than debian's but It's fixable <snoopdogg>do people worry when they have to update because something might break in unexpected ways? <snoopdogg>I don't mind hacking a large monolith like I've done on my nixos config just to keep everything cohesive and as much of a perfect fit to me as possible <snoopdogg>are **all** packages tested for functionality when possible? <ieure>snoopdogg, Things have been broken a good bit lately, it definitely does happen. <snoopdogg>esp since most of the testing is that building actually succeeds <ieure>Well, it's software, something is always gonna break. <snoopdogg>well that's what guix and nix are trying to fix right? software that works now will work till the end of time <FuncProgLinux>well you can rollback packages, home and system generations if something goes wrong <ieure>snoopdogg, You can control when you update, so that's the #1 way to avoid breakage. And if the update doesn't work, you can roll back to the last generation that did. While Guix can definitely break, it's nowhere near the tradlinux brokenness, where you can't do anything at all until you fix it. <ieure>snoopdogg, Right, so "assume nothing changes" means "don't upgrade." :) <snoopdogg>how's the guix equivalent to the module system? <FuncProgLinux>You mean like, breaking down your configuration in several pieces? <Rutherther>that would be services, but it is definitely not equivalent, it differs a lot <ieure>snoopdogg, There's not a direct equivalent. <snoopdogg>Well, how would I go about setting up something like Unbound so I don't have to rely on a third party DNS server in Guix? <dale>My installation appears to be screwed; /gnu/store/mzfkrxd4w8vqrmyrx169wj8wyw7r8i37-bash will not execute. Any ideas how I should proceed? Running guix build bash-static needs the above file to work. <sneek>dale, untrusem says: I use rootless podman in guix which is a docker equivalent <Rutherther>dale: please share the whole error and also what you're doing exactly <snoopdogg>what about handling software that's not listed? <ieure>snoopdogg, Not sure if you're talking about "unpackaged," "without a service," or both. <FuncProgLinux>snoopdogg: You can package it using a local guix checkout or make a channel. <FuncProgLinux>It's a similar concept to ebuilds or pkgbuilds, except that multiple package definitions can live in the same file. <ieure>Pastebin spam, what a world. <ieure>dale, Foreign distro? Guix System? <kestrelwx>If you have 'bordeaux' as the only Guix substitute you're gonna be building the whole world. <dale>I also have ci.guix.gnu.org. <dale>I don't mind building the whole world, if only I could. <dale>What do you mean, pastebin spam? <ieure>dale, The right-hand side of the page your paste is on shows other recent public pastes, and they're all low grade get-rich-quick scams. <dale>Oh, right. Sorry, that's nothing to do with me. <Rutherther>kestrelwx: and do you have the substitute server key authorized? <dale>Yes. The installation has worked perfectly well for the past two years. <Rutherther>you have only bordeaux as you can see in the log, you aren't using ci <dale>Unfortunately I'm on a laptop with 256GB storage, I have to keep purging old generations. <Rutherther>the substitute servers used have nothing to do with generations, that only depends on arguments going to guix-daemon <dale>I will go and investigate why I'm not using the ci substitute server, but I don't think that's my real problem. <ieure>dale, Have you set up locales like the output suggests? Or can you not do that in the first place because of the issue you're having? <dale`>ieure I don't care about the locale nonesense. I'm away for the night...