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<podiki>then likely some mailing list wonkiness, i think others had issues recently
<dodoyada>is it really practical to use guix for common lisp packages?  I am new to common lisp and it looks like there are a ton of them but I don't know how they're maintained and everywhere I read suggests using quicklisp but I really love having everything contained in guix shell
<jackhill>dodoyada: I'm not personally a CL-er, but I agree the package maintaince seems active. I think we've love to make guix a usuable CL development tool, so if you could try it out and suggest improvements or contribute to making it better it would be welcome
<dodoyada>any idea if automating package management sync would be good/possible?
<below_turtles_>anyone have a eclipse-ecj-3.2.tar.bz2 lying around?
<weary-traveler>how do you retitle issues in debbugs?
<weary-traveler>i tried sending an email to and that didn't really work. does need to be the recipient instead?
<jamesvasile>dodoyada: quicklisp is the way.
<dodoyada>if quicklisp had declarative config I'd call it a day
<vivien>weary-traveler, umanwizard and a few others are reporting that debbugs is down
<PotentialUser-50>Hello! I am trying to package gotk3, a go module that contains multiple packages. As far as I can tell, the go-build-system is thought to build single packages. Is there a way to package together all of the packages of the module?
<PotentialUser-50>*is meant to build
<jpoiret>janneke: force-pushing to the glibc 2.39 branch if that's ok with you
<jpoiret>I'll make the mail asking for a bit of help with the guile/libxcrypt thing
<janneke>jpoiret: sure!
<futurile>Q: anyone else getting 'Bad Gateway' on ?
<pkill9>why might a program segfault when run outside of a guix package build?
<pkill9>i'll send a message to the mailing list I suppose
<janneke>pkill9: other environment variabeles?
<f1refly>I cannot enable regular expression matching in the thunar renamer. Since pcre is already a dependency for pcre in the package, what else could've gone wrong?
<jpoiret>janneke: ah, seems that the remote doesn't let you force push
<jpoiret>i've deleted the branch and re-created it
<janneke>jpoiret: sure, great
<jpoiret>janneke: lmk if I missed something that you did push at some point
<janneke>jpoiret: i don't think so; the only interesting things i pushed were for ldb, tevent, talloc,samba
<janneke>and you made better fixes
<dkxr>wassup guys
<dkxr>how do i create a custom email?
<dkxr>does anybody know?
<janneke>M-x 4m RET?
<janneke>just kiddin' what's a "custom email"?
<janneke>*C-x 4m RET
<cbaines>bffe on bayfront has decided just to stop listening on it's port... I'll restart it
<sailorCat>Hi, I'm a bit confused with
<sailorCat>Why does guix wants to have 2 different instances of the same version of gtk+?
<sailorCat>The obvious trick remove packages/install packages doesn't work.
<lilyp>have you tried `guix package -i <your packages> -u`?
<lilyp>Note that installing libraries such as gtk to the user profile is considered a smell.
<sailorCat>let me check
<sailorCat>with the `guix package -i gtkmm zbar -u` Guix tries to install it.
<nckx>But does it still report a conflict?
<sneek>nckx, you have 1 message!
<sneek>nckx, gnucode says: Do you have an XMPP account?
<nckx>sneek: later tell gnucode: No, but I'd be happy to create one if useful.
<sneek>Got it.
<dkxr>a custom email i guess is a selfhosted email?
<nckx>Not necessarily. You can point your MX records to any (ideally, consenting) e-mail provider.
<pkill9>janneke: that fixed it, thanks!
<dkxr>ah true
<dkxr>does guix provide a service to self host emails?
<nckx>Not one single turnkey ‘make the emails go’ service (unless it was added recently), but there are services for all low-level components you should need that aren't Webmail. I self-host my mail on Guix System using OpenSMTPd + Dovecot + dkimproxy.
<nckx>I think there's an rspamd service? I don't use it. Sieve rules do the job for me.
<lilyp>nckx: Unless your os.scm is already public, could you provide a paste for reference?
<nckx>lilyp: Sure! …later. You'll probably be disappointed though, I just use opaque configuration files and the Guixy part is unlikely to be interesting to you.
<lilyp>I haven't had self-hosted email since… ever. A cookbook entry or something for users to check out would definitely be welcome imho.
<lilyp>(Maybe there's some blog post out there that has the most beautiful Guix config. Alas, I don't think that to be real)
<nckx>Well, I'll show you the least beautiful and we can go from there.
<podiki>lilyp: I was trying to update waybar (just started using wayland!) and ran into an issue since it wants c++20 but somehow uses older glibmm (at least 2.64 had some issue); tried on gnome-team branch but same issue
<podiki>seems to be via gtkmm-3, pangomm (2.46), to there some way to work around that?
<lilyp>Try again after applying Vivien's series
<lilyp>that ought to bump glibmm to a C++-20 compatible version
<lilyp>also rebuilds the world
<podiki>does that drop all the older versions? i guess something is using an older one in that chain currently
<apteryx>funny, the pangocairo.pc file "Requires" pango, which is from the same package
<apteryx>so it can't be propagated
<apteryx>ACTION propagates a bunch of stuff from imagemagick
<apteryx>or maybe I should ad-hoc fix pstoedit
<apteryx>the problem becomes visible only when a library links against imagemagick and makes use of libtool
<podiki>we are due a cairo update as well, i was thinking to do it on mesa-updates (with mesa, libdrm, vulkan, ...)
<podiki>lilyp: i see gtkmm-3 uses pangomm-2.46 which still uses older glibmm on gnome-team (despite default glibmm being 2.76), not seeing patches that change that tagged with gnome-team
<lilyp>podiki: mm-common was updated, which IIUC is used by everything – other than that you might try using gtkmm or whatever the gtk4 variant is called if you can
<podiki>unfortunately waybar needs specifically gtkmm-3
<podiki>guess i can see if that chain of dependencies can use newer glibmm (maybe just for waybar)
<podiki>no that won't work, that chain needs older versions it seems...i really don't understand gnome versioning schemes and when the api changes
<podiki>or abi rather
<podiki>if i understand correctly glibmm 2.68.1 fixes the c++20 issue, but that is also the release where they move to glibmm-2.68 abi (from 2.4)
<futurile>dkxr: what are you trying to do? run a mail server or a server you look after?
<futurile>dkxr: something like this maybe -
<sailorCat>forgot to anwser, with the `guix package -i gtkmm zbar -u` command the conflict was solved. Thanks a lot.
<lilyp>as for why, you probably had something else in your profile pulling in the other gtk already
<futurile>argh!! I have just spend 2 hours not being able to build something due to British English vs American English: the library that does combinatorics if you are British is maths.combinatorics, but if you're from the usa it is math.combinatorics - because there's no plural 'maths' in American English.
<futurile>I even double-checked I was spelling 'combinatorics' correctly twice - but missed the 's' that I'd typed in - heh heh heh
<civodul>fun :-)
<civodul>what programming language is this?
<aldum>wait, what? the package path is different depending on the locale?
<futurile>no no it's just a typo on my end - the library is called math.xxxx - but as a Brit my brain just translated that to 'maths'.xxx cos humans don't always actually type or read what is there :-)
<futurile>so I was merrily getting into more confusion heh heh
<podiki>lilyp: i'm thoroughly confused...but now i see arch uses glibmm 2.66.6 which i see a tag for but not in NEWS. perhaps that is latest version with 2.6 abi but fixes like c++20. trying now on gnome-team with glibmm-2.64 updated to 2.66.6. up to inkscape....
<podiki>lilyp: yes that did the trick for waybar (which uses c++20). i can try to build some more stuff locally if there's things in particular to test. otherwise will make a patch for gnome-team
<lilyp>go ahead
<elb>Happy weekend, all! Is there a way to install a guix system without nano? It looks like %base-packages includes both nano and nvi.
<elb>(I guess I can just (filter) on %base-packages?)
<sham1>You could filter it, yeah. But why
<elb>because I don't ever want to see nano, and my experience is that for SOME REASON some programs spawn nano if they can't figure out what editor to run
<futurile>you mean if they can't find $EDITOR?
<elb>ideally yes, programs would reliably check $EDITOR
<elb>this may just be scars from running debian for decades, but on debian, if I don't _remove_ nano, invariably I eventually find it in my face with its horrible interface and abominable lack of useful features
<elb>(being fully imperative, on debian this is of course effected by simply apt removing it and not looking back, because while it _installs_ by default, it isn't required by the system base packages)
<podiki>does alacritty work on wayland for anyone? crashes here
<mrh57>podiki: just tested it with `guix shell` and it seems to work
<mrh57>podiki: I remember alacritty used to crash on wayland and I couldn't get it to work, but that was a while ago
<podiki>mrh57: thanks. supposed to be fixed in our version since i think it is
<nckx>Sorry if I spammed the channel, there was a thing, it's resolved.
<podiki>i was a kitty user and would prefer that, but couldn't update to recent versions due from what i could tell was needing sphinx doc themes which need node stuff :( but maybe i'm wrong
<podiki>nckx: hi!
<podiki>i was hoping i could just version bump alacritty but of course not. wants new (rust) dependencies. i shall not
<jpoiret>podiki: foot is the way :)
<jpoiret>although I've been using emacs and nothing else without regrets for a bit
<podiki>yeah i should try out eat in emacs
<podiki>i'll try out foot
<podiki>i still like having a separate terminal application, though i do try to do everything in emacs
<jpoiret>tbf being able to switch to pure emacs bindings is just so useful for my brain
<podiki>hyprland is pretty. good motivation for mesa-updates since will need newer libdrm for wlroots if I'm remembering. which is needed for latest hyrpland
<jpoiret>is it good at tiling?
<podiki>you're using eat in emacs?
<jpoiret>actually i don't really use tiling anymore
<jpoiret>podiki: yeah
<podiki>i like tiling for my monitor (4k, reasonable size, so it helps)
<podiki>well i'd rather check out foot and eat (jeez, listen to us) then try to debug or update alacritty :)
<jpoiret>i mostly have just one app open per workspace on sway. maybe a pdf and emacs alongside when i'm working
<jpoiret>yeah my thoughts exactly for almost all rust apps :)
<jpoiret>if i can't package it i'd rather not use it
<podiki>hyprland does auto tiling (i use stump normally, manually tiling usually) though with some layouts which i haven't tried
<jpoiret>dogfooding yadda yadda yadda
<podiki>agreed. i like to be able to update and hack on it as needed, exactly
<podiki>wayland on hidpi seems pretty good out of the box, though honestly i had things set up fine in X
<podiki>i'm a sucker for pretty animations though
<mrh57>podiki: yeah I used to use alacritty, but now exclusively use emacs + eat for everything I used to use a terminal emulator for (I do still have foot installed for the 1%)
<mrh57>actually the most annoying thing about eat funnily is guix! specifically guix shell
<podiki>(and thanks all, I appreciate pushes to use more emacs and try new things there. will make for a nice afternoon)
<mrh57>I mostly just wish the emacs-guix package was still maintained (at least it was somewhat broken the last time I used it)
<podiki>i haven't tried it much and not in a long while.
<lilyp>from what I gather it's still pretty broken save for the drv mode
<Guest14>how would i automactially mount a nfs share?
<podiki>lilyp: patch sent for glibmm-2.6 update. thanks for listening to me blather on and eventually realize i could once again cheat off of Arch and see there is a newer version (tagged, not in upstream NEWS because why tell us everything)
<lilyp>who reads NEWS anyway? :)
<podiki>it looked so documented with abi versions and everything!
<podiki>it was a lie
<podiki>well not a lie...more like an omission of more info
<PotentialUser-65>guix pull on a Armbian (rock64 sbc) is erroring out for "Git error: http parser error: stream ended at an unexpected time" does anyone know a solution.
<Guest14>PotentialUser-65 do again, sometimes it takes more tries
<apteryx>Guest14: you can't via a guix system declaration, but yo could create the mount point and /etc/fstab entry to mount it via a .bash_profile script or something
<PotentialUser-65>Tried diong sudo guix pull since last night and apparently it worked as soon as I asked for help.
<podiki>PotentialUser-65: you generally shouldn't need to do something like "sudo guix pull" or really use sudo with any guix command except "system reconfigure" [update system configuration]. running guix with sudo otherwise can often lead to confusing issues with things getting owned by root and you don't need to use root's guix
<Guest14>apteryx thanks
<marcc>Heya, I'm trying to complete the rabbitmq package that was started here:
<marcc>I managed to bump up the version to 3.12.13 and get it to build
<marcc>but beyond that, I don't quite get what else is missing beyond adding a license and synopsis
<marcc>The comment says "The package still needs more work, I haven't looked too closely at the
<marcc>source and what might need stripping out." Any clue what could be meant by that?
<podiki>marcc: probably means they didn't look to see if there are things like bundled libraries that should be removed/unbundled
<podiki>or possibly features/pieces that wouldn't work on guix? not sure, but if it builds and works, and made a reasonable check for bundled dependencies [and to try to unbundle when possible] then that's good
<marcc>@podiki is there a check for bundled dependencies that runs?
<podiki>no tool that i know of
<podiki>usually you look [e.g. for "third party" or "submodules" that sort of thing in the source]
<podiki>or things won't build because they try to automatically download dependencies
<podiki>you don't need to audit every line of code for this, but we try to make a best effort to not bundle things whenever we can help it
<marcc>Okay, so basically try to strip down and ensure we're not including dependencies that are not needed? I see after running guix build rabbitmq-server that it also built pulseaudio, samba and more which ostensibly seem unnecessary?
<jpoiret>marcc: no, rather check that the rabbit-mq source that is built doesn't include other bundled libraries
<jpoiret>eg some packages really like to distribute outdated and patched versions of other libraries, but as a distribution you don't want that, you want to use the one blessed library that's already packgaed
<jpoiret>as to why samba and pulseaudio are needed, you can check the dependency paths with `guix graph --path`
<marcc>Ah I see, so I can see there is a deps folder which seems to include third-party elixir/erlang dependencies
<marcc>Including one that is for systemd notifications
<jpoiret>yes, that kind of stuff
<marcc>It only seems to be erlang libraries at least, otherwise the libraries needed to build the project is listed on their website.