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2024-02-18.log
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<podiki>then likely some mailing list wonkiness, i think others had issues recently <dodoyada>is it really practical to use guix for common lisp packages? I am new to common lisp and it looks like there are a ton of them but I don't know how they're maintained and everywhere I read suggests using quicklisp but I really love having everything contained in guix shell <jackhill>dodoyada: I'm not personally a CL-er, but I agree the package maintaince seems active. I think we've love to make guix a usuable CL development tool, so if you could try it out and suggest improvements or contribute to making it better it would be welcome <dodoyada>any idea if automating package management sync would be good/possible? <weary-traveler>i tried sending an email to issue-number@debbugs.gnu.org and that didn't really work. does control@debbugs.gnu.org need to be the recipient instead? <dodoyada>if quicklisp had declarative config I'd call it a day <vivien>weary-traveler, umanwizard and a few others are reporting that debbugs is down <PotentialUser-50>Hello! I am trying to package gotk3, a go module that contains multiple packages. As far as I can tell, the go-build-system is thought to build single packages. Is there a way to package together all of the packages of the module? <jpoiret>janneke: force-pushing to the glibc 2.39 branch if that's ok with you <jpoiret>I'll make the mail asking for a bit of help with the guile/libxcrypt thing <pkill9>why might a program segfault when run outside of a guix package build? <pkill9>i'll send a message to the mailing list I suppose <janneke>pkill9: other environment variabeles? <f1refly>I cannot enable regular expression matching in the thunar renamer. Since pcre is already a dependency for pcre in the package, what else could've gone wrong? <jpoiret>janneke: ah, seems that the remote doesn't let you force push <jpoiret>i've deleted the branch and re-created it <jpoiret>janneke: lmk if I missed something that you did push at some point <janneke>jpoiret: i don't think so; the only interesting things i pushed were for ldb, tevent, talloc,samba <dkxr>how do i create a custom email? <janneke>just kiddin' what's a "custom email"? <cbaines>bffe on bayfront has decided just to stop listening on it's port... I'll restart it <sailorCat>Why does guix wants to have 2 different instances of the same version of gtk+? <sailorCat>The obvious trick remove packages/install packages doesn't work. <lilyp>have you tried `guix package -i <your packages> -u`? <lilyp>Note that installing libraries such as gtk to the user profile is considered a smell. <sailorCat>with the `guix package -i gtkmm zbar -u` Guix tries to install it. <nckx>But does it still report a conflict? <sneek>nckx, gnucode says: Do you have an XMPP account? <nckx>sneek: later tell gnucode: No, but I'd be happy to create one if useful. <dkxr>a custom email i guess is a selfhosted email? <nckx>Not necessarily. You can point your MX records to any (ideally, consenting) e-mail provider. <dkxr>does guix provide a service to self host emails? <nckx>Not one single turnkey ‘make the emails go’ service (unless it was added recently), but there are services for all low-level components you should need that aren't Webmail. I self-host my mail on Guix System using OpenSMTPd + Dovecot + dkimproxy. <nckx>I think there's an rspamd service? I don't use it. Sieve rules do the job for me. <lilyp>nckx: Unless your os.scm is already public, could you provide a paste for reference? <nckx>lilyp: Sure! …later. You'll probably be disappointed though, I just use opaque configuration files and the Guixy part is unlikely to be interesting to you. <lilyp>I haven't had self-hosted email since… ever. A cookbook entry or something for users to check out would definitely be welcome imho. <lilyp>(Maybe there's some blog post out there that has the most beautiful Guix config. Alas, I don't think that to be real) <nckx>Well, I'll show you the least beautiful and we can go from there. <podiki>lilyp: I was trying to update waybar (just started using wayland!) and ran into an issue since it wants c++20 but somehow uses older glibmm (at least 2.64 had some issue); tried on gnome-team branch but same issue <podiki>seems to be via gtkmm-3, pangomm (2.46), to glibmm-2.64.5....is there some way to work around that? <lilyp>Try again after applying Vivien's series <lilyp>that ought to bump glibmm to a C++-20 compatible version <podiki>does that drop all the older versions? i guess something is using an older one in that chain currently <apteryx>funny, the pangocairo.pc file "Requires" pango, which is from the same package <apteryx>ACTION propagates a bunch of stuff from imagemagick <apteryx>or maybe I should ad-hoc fix pstoedit <apteryx>the problem becomes visible only when a library links against imagemagick and makes use of libtool <podiki>we are due a cairo update as well, i was thinking to do it on mesa-updates (with mesa, libdrm, vulkan, ...) <podiki>lilyp: i see gtkmm-3 uses pangomm-2.46 which still uses older glibmm on gnome-team (despite default glibmm being 2.76), not seeing patches that change that tagged with gnome-team <lilyp>podiki: mm-common was updated, which IIUC is used by everything – other than that you might try using gtkmm or whatever the gtk4 variant is called if you can <podiki>unfortunately waybar needs specifically gtkmm-3 <podiki>guess i can see if that chain of dependencies can use newer glibmm (maybe just for waybar) <podiki>no that won't work, that chain needs older versions it seems...i really don't understand gnome versioning schemes and when the api changes <podiki>if i understand correctly glibmm 2.68.1 fixes the c++20 issue, but that is also the release where they move to glibmm-2.68 abi (from 2.4) <futurile>dkxr: what are you trying to do? run a mail server or a server you look after? <sailorCat>forgot to anwser, with the `guix package -i gtkmm zbar -u` command the conflict was solved. Thanks a lot. <lilyp>as for why, you probably had something else in your profile pulling in the other gtk already <futurile>argh!! I have just spend 2 hours not being able to build something due to British English vs American English: the library that does combinatorics if you are British is maths.combinatorics, but if you're from the usa it is math.combinatorics - because there's no plural 'maths' in American English. <futurile>I even double-checked I was spelling 'combinatorics' correctly twice - but missed the 's' that I'd typed in - heh heh heh <aldum>wait, what? the package path is different depending on the locale? <futurile>no no it's just a typo on my end - the library is called math.xxxx - but as a Brit my brain just translated that to 'maths'.xxx cos humans don't always actually type or read what is there :-) <futurile>so I was merrily getting into more confusion heh heh <podiki>lilyp: i'm thoroughly confused...but now i see arch uses glibmm 2.66.6 which i see a tag for but not in NEWS. perhaps that is latest version with 2.6 abi but fixes like c++20. trying now on gnome-team with glibmm-2.64 updated to 2.66.6. up to inkscape.... <podiki>lilyp: yes that did the trick for waybar (which uses c++20). i can try to build some more stuff locally if there's things in particular to test. otherwise will make a patch for gnome-team <elb>Happy weekend, all! Is there a way to install a guix system without nano? It looks like %base-packages includes both nano and nvi. <elb>(I guess I can just (filter) on %base-packages?) <sham1>You could filter it, yeah. But why <elb>because I don't ever want to see nano, and my experience is that for SOME REASON some programs spawn nano if they can't figure out what editor to run <elb>ideally yes, programs would reliably check $EDITOR <elb>this may just be scars from running debian for decades, but on debian, if I don't _remove_ nano, invariably I eventually find it in my face with its horrible interface and abominable lack of useful features <elb>(being fully imperative, on debian this is of course effected by simply apt removing it and not looking back, because while it _installs_ by default, it isn't required by the system base packages) <podiki>does alacritty work on wayland for anyone? crashes here <mrh57>podiki: just tested it with `guix shell` and it seems to work <mrh57>podiki: I remember alacritty used to crash on wayland and I couldn't get it to work, but that was a while ago <nckx>Sorry if I spammed the channel, there was a thing, it's resolved. <podiki>i was a kitty user and would prefer that, but couldn't update to recent versions due from what i could tell was needing sphinx doc themes which need node stuff :( but maybe i'm wrong <podiki>i was hoping i could just version bump alacritty but of course not. wants new (rust) dependencies. i shall not <jpoiret>although I've been using emacs and nothing else without regrets for a bit <podiki>yeah i should try out eat in emacs <podiki>i still like having a separate terminal application, though i do try to do everything in emacs <jpoiret>tbf being able to switch to pure emacs bindings is just so useful for my brain <podiki>hyprland is pretty. good motivation for mesa-updates since will need newer libdrm for wlroots if I'm remembering. which is needed for latest hyrpland <jpoiret>actually i don't really use tiling anymore <podiki>i like tiling for my monitor (4k, reasonable size, so it helps) <podiki>well i'd rather check out foot and eat (jeez, listen to us) then try to debug or update alacritty :) <jpoiret>i mostly have just one app open per workspace on sway. maybe a pdf and emacs alongside when i'm working <jpoiret>yeah my thoughts exactly for almost all rust apps :) <jpoiret>if i can't package it i'd rather not use it <podiki>hyprland does auto tiling (i use stump normally, manually tiling usually) though with some layouts which i haven't tried <podiki>agreed. i like to be able to update and hack on it as needed, exactly <podiki>wayland on hidpi seems pretty good out of the box, though honestly i had things set up fine in X <podiki>i'm a sucker for pretty animations though <mrh57>podiki: yeah I used to use alacritty, but now exclusively use emacs + eat for everything I used to use a terminal emulator for (I do still have foot installed for the 1%) <mrh57>actually the most annoying thing about eat funnily is guix! specifically guix shell <podiki>(and thanks all, I appreciate pushes to use more emacs and try new things there. will make for a nice afternoon) <mrh57>I mostly just wish the emacs-guix package was still maintained (at least it was somewhat broken the last time I used it) <podiki>i haven't tried it much and not in a long while. <lilyp>from what I gather it's still pretty broken save for the drv mode <Guest14>how would i automactially mount a nfs share? <podiki>lilyp: patch sent for glibmm-2.6 update. thanks for listening to me blather on and eventually realize i could once again cheat off of Arch and see there is a newer version (tagged, not in upstream NEWS because why tell us everything) <podiki>it looked so documented with abi versions and everything! <podiki>well not a lie...more like an omission of more info <PotentialUser-65>guix pull on a Armbian (rock64 sbc) is erroring out for "Git error: http parser error: stream ended at an unexpected time" does anyone know a solution. <Guest14>PotentialUser-65 do again, sometimes it takes more tries <apteryx>Guest14: you can't via a guix system declaration, but yo could create the mount point and /etc/fstab entry to mount it via a .bash_profile script or something <PotentialUser-65>Tried diong sudo guix pull since last night and apparently it worked as soon as I asked for help. <podiki>PotentialUser-65: you generally shouldn't need to do something like "sudo guix pull" or really use sudo with any guix command except "system reconfigure" [update system configuration]. running guix with sudo otherwise can often lead to confusing issues with things getting owned by root and you don't need to use root's guix <marcc>I managed to bump up the version to 3.12.13 and get it to build <marcc>but beyond that, I don't quite get what else is missing beyond adding a license and synopsis <marcc>The comment says "The package still needs more work, I haven't looked too closely at the <marcc>source and what might need stripping out." Any clue what could be meant by that? <podiki>marcc: probably means they didn't look to see if there are things like bundled libraries that should be removed/unbundled <podiki>or possibly features/pieces that wouldn't work on guix? not sure, but if it builds and works, and made a reasonable check for bundled dependencies [and to try to unbundle when possible] then that's good <marcc>@podiki is there a check for bundled dependencies that runs? <podiki>usually you look [e.g. for "third party" or "submodules" that sort of thing in the source] <podiki>or things won't build because they try to automatically download dependencies <podiki>you don't need to audit every line of code for this, but we try to make a best effort to not bundle things whenever we can help it <marcc>Okay, so basically try to strip down and ensure we're not including dependencies that are not needed? I see after running guix build rabbitmq-server that it also built pulseaudio, samba and more which ostensibly seem unnecessary? <jpoiret>marcc: no, rather check that the rabbit-mq source that is built doesn't include other bundled libraries <jpoiret>eg some packages really like to distribute outdated and patched versions of other libraries, but as a distribution you don't want that, you want to use the one blessed library that's already packgaed <jpoiret>as to why samba and pulseaudio are needed, you can check the dependency paths with `guix graph --path` <marcc>Ah I see, so I can see there is a deps folder which seems to include third-party elixir/erlang dependencies <marcc>Including one that is for systemd notifications <marcc>It only seems to be erlang libraries at least, otherwise the libraries needed to build the project is listed on their website.