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2024-01-20.log

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<jpoiret>who thought this was a good idea
<jpoiret>I remember trying to understand gdm's code once, and having to go through the gjs docs, it was horrendous
<jpoiret>that and polkit requiring mozjs
<jpoiret>this is your brain on javascrip
<lilyp>at least polkit can use duktape now
<lilyp>now to duktape gjs :)
<jpoiret>huh, haven't followed that development
<jpoiret>how is duktape better than mozjs?
<lilyp>It's one of many lightweight JS engines out there. I just haven't heard about the others before :)
<jpoiret>right. and since you're not running untrusted code it should be fine
<jpoiret>right??
<lilyp>Untrusted code is a problem regardless of programming language.
<lilyp>I wouldn't fault JS specifically here.
<rekado>(I prefer all my untrusted code to be Scheme.)
<lilyp>We can meet in the middle and compile that Scheme to WebAssembly that's interpreted by Javascript, I guess.
<pinoaffe>redacted: surf is gonna be slow, yes
<pinoaffe>and certain websites won't work
<pinoaffe>surf and uzbl are lovely, but they do have their limitations
<pinoaffe>I really hope someone makes a uzbl-esque browser based on servo, maybe even integrated into emacs and/or with scheme scriptability provided by hoot :)
<apteryx>hm, nomad's build is broken
<apteryx>who is behind nomad?
<redacted>apteryx: nomad has been dead for three years
<redacted>not sure if that means the build should be broken though
<apteryx>the most recent commit on dev branchs seems to be about 2 years old
<apteryx>guile-3.0.7
<freakingpenguin>Is there a guix system service to symlink A to B?
<apteryx>that sounds too trivial to have a service for it; you could make your own one shot service that does that
<freakingpenguin>True enough, although I did track one down. The oddly named extra-special-file service.
<redacted>apteryx: is there a guixy way to do something trivial like that without a service?
<apteryx>I think for a symlink you'll need a service
<apteryx>for placing a simple file somewhere you could use the extra-special-file service
<apteryx>ACTION tried epiphany for a bit; it's not any leaner than icecat in terms of memory consumption
<ulfvonbelow>I sometimes wonder how to make guix better explain why it does what it does at the user interface level. For example, I go to delete old system generations to enable the next 'guix gc' to free up more space, and it starts... building curl. I've done enough reading of the source whenever this kind of "huh?" situation comes up to know that there's almost certainly a reason for it, I just can't divine what it is off the top of my head.
<freakingpenguin>Guix has a reason, but in my head I envision it holding up a finger at me and saying "I'll be with you in a minute!"
<jackhill>ulfvonbelow: yeah, the trick is there's often different reasons. I think often that behaviour is because of a graft, and the ungrafted version had been gc-ed (but it need it in order to make the graft). I often see bootloader stuff fetched when I wasn't expecting it.
<ulfvonbelow>funny enough I once saw it start trying to download stuff when running 'guix system switch-generation ...'
<ulfvonbelow>oops, messed up my system and now networking doesn't work, now I'll just revert... aaaand that requires networking...
<ulfvonbelow>more severely, once I did eventually get it to revert, it messed up the bootloader by installing some grub default instead of the custom one I wrote
<natmeo>how exactly is the home environment meant to be activated on foo in case of ``ssh foo bar''? ssh invokes a non-login shell for command execution, so guix home paths aren't set up
<natmeo>so bar command fails
<ulfvonbelow>how on earth did 'guix system delete-generations' manage to depend on rust
<janneke>ACTION fixes cross build of guix for the Hurd on c-u
<dcunit3d>on guix system, how do i find out why my wifi device is getting a random mac? i only have /etc/NetworkManager/system-connections
<dcunit3d>i'm trying to set up an ipvtap to used as a bridged libvirt connection, but i need a stable mac
<dcunit3d>i didn't customize the wpa-supplicant service. when i run `nmcli device modify wlan0`, i get messages indicating that it's communicating to dbus at "/org/freedesktop/NetworkManager/Devices/3"
<dcunit3d>so i'm looking at the system dbus using the d-feet app, but i'm unsure of how to move forward. i would actually prefer that my config is transient. does wpa supplicant set random MAC by default? or could this be my BIOS config? the "permaddr" shown in `ip link` is correct afaik
<dcunit3d>i think i can set a stable mac in a NetworkManager connection profile actually, but i won't know until i get there
<lilyp>I don't think Guix is MAC spoofing by default.
<lilyp>I'd have troubles with my employer if it was.
<dcunit3d>ah i see. thanks. i checked the source, but the wpa-supplicant service doesn't pass a `-c $configfile` param unless a file is specified. it could be my bios.
<dcunit3d>the wpa-supplicant package does include a XML specification for dbus services at "/etc/dbus-1/system.d/wpa-supplicant.conf" but that's a bit beyond me. i'm testing things out to see. i think the connection profile will work bc i see it in `ip link`
<dcunit3d>lilyp: ok great, it works. here's the gist i followed if you're interested. it was pretty simple: https://gist.github.com/gdamjan/ed095763b8c322ee5bed17e11bbaed6d
<peanuts>"libvirt with ipvtap over wifi ? GitHub" https://gist.github.com/gdamjan/ed095763b8c322ee5bed17e11bbaed6d
<dcunit3d>well ... almost works (can't ssh into guest because the the host sshd is bound to the ipvtap0 ip)
<dcunit3d>but basically works for what i need it for i think. i could try other approaches, but this is simpler for sharing wifi
<janneke>successfully built /gnu/store/ai6pdzxb485km063c2hjiq0kcsib00ld-gcc-mesboot1-4.6.4.drv -- for i686-linux
<janneke>somehow a dependency for a hurd vm on c-u
<anthk_>will guix provide hurd images in a future?
<janneke>anthk_: guix has provided hurd images for years now -- https://guix.gnu.org/en/download/latest/
<anthk_>for physical machines I meant
<anthk_>a la gnu hurd, but with guix system
<janneke>ah yes, that would be nice
<anthk_>I'am sure enabling the netbsd rumpkernel would be easier under guix than debian
<janneke>it's not really feasible to run the hurd on real iron until we have rumpnet, tho
<janneke>anthk_: using rumpdisk is identical under guix or debian currently, just use `noide' as a kernel argument
<jab> https://jitsi.member.fsf.org/hurd2024 <-- Hurd New Year's party starting at 3pm UTC (in about half an hour).
<peanuts>"Jitsi Meet" https://jitsi.member.fsf.org/hurd2024
<jab>If there is a password, it'll be SMPBABY
<anthk_>ah, thanks
<jab>you're welcome
<anthk_>janneke: then the harddisk should be switched from sd* to wd* wight?
<anthk_>at fstab
<janneke>anthk_: ah yes, that's right
<dariqq>If i am replying to an answer that i got via guix issues should I reply to the person and CC the issue or just send to the issue only?
<lilyp>The nice thing is to keep everyone in CC, many folks don't monitor the lists
<abbe__>hola!
<sneek>Welcome back abbe__, you have 2 messages!
<sneek>abbe__, Guest74 says: test
<sneek>abbe__, Guest74 says: I have those errors as well, must be something else though the cmd "pacmd list-cards" prints out my actual cards
<abbe__>wow, i don't even remember that :)
<abbe__>I'm trying guix as a home environment on a nixos system
<abbe__>If I like to minimize the building (i.e. fetching substituters when possible), while staying on the bleeding edge, which channel should I follow ?
<abbe__>And I guess for me to be able to reproduce my home configuration on a different system, I should do something like: guix time-machine -C channels.scm -- home reconfigure ./config.scm (where channels.scm contains channel information, and ./config.scm contains the home configuration). Am I correct in this ?
<lilyp>if you want to reproduce it bit-for-bit, yes
<dariqq>lilyp: you mean send to the list and cc the person i am replying to?
<lilyp>both ways work fine as long as everyone's in one of To: and Cc:
<dariqq>ok thanks, wasnt sure if the list is recognising things if it is only in CC
<Kolev>My audio still doesn't work. 🙁 https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-guix/2023-11/msg00052.html
<peanuts>"chromebook-ucm-conf" https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-guix/2023-11/msg00052.html
<abbe__>thanks lilyp
<lilyp>Kolev: have you tried the alsa-plugins field of alsa-service-type?
<abbe__>any ideas about the first question, w.r.t. fetching from substituters, i.e. is there some branch I should stay in which is what stuff gets merged to after CI job finishes ?
<Kolev>lilyp, no. I'm just a user. I don't know what that means.
<lilyp>Well, I'm just a user myself and I have no idea what chromebook does :)
<lilyp>It might very well be that the ucm paths it is using are a chrome os hack
<Kolev>lilyp, you mean, normal FHS-compliant distros use a ChromeOS hack?
<lilyp>‾\_(ツ)_/‾
<mwette>On x86_64-linux, I'm trying `guix init -t riscv64-linux ...` and getting error: can't build gnutls for riscv64 on x86_64 system. Is that a known issue, error on my part or something else?
<mwette>exact is "a `riscv64-linux' is required to build /gnu/store/...gnutls-3.8.2.tar.xz.drv', but I am a `x86_64-linux'"
<mwette>I removed any networking packages from my operating-system
<mwette>I'll try removing network ref's from other config files.
<lilyp>mwette `guix init'?
<mwette>lilyp: `guix system init`
<lilyp>didn't know one can do cross inits, am smarter now
<mwette>trying to (eventually) build SD disk image for riscv VisionFive2
<mwette>Was working w/ `guix system image`; not sure about `guix system init`.
<lilyp>TIL Guix is in the top 5 distros as per repology.org
<pkill9>wow
<pkill9>more than fedora
<pkill9>and gentoo?
<cdo256`>lilyp: I've checked and I can't see a distro ranking on repology. Top 5 in what ranking?
<lilyp>Number of packages and number of non-unique packages
<cdo256`>Is this what you were looking at: https://repology.org/repositories/statistics/total
<peanuts>"Repository statistics - Repology" https://repology.org/repositories/statistics/total
<cdo256`>I see it under nix, AUR, debian, ubuntu and all of the debian derivatives
<nmeum>is any dhcp client available in guix, other than isc-dhcp, which is supported by dhcp-client-service-type? I can't seem to find one and the installer seems to use isc-dhcp by default which is unfortunate as it is eol since 2022
<freakingpenguin>nmeum: Don't think so. connman has a dhcp client, but it doesn't provide sbin/dhclient which dhcp-client-shepherd-service seems to require.
<nmeum>is that a known issue? because it seems weird to me to enforce usage of a dhcp client that is eol upstream since 2022
<nmeum>dhcpcd could be a good drop-in replacement but it isn't packaged right now
<freakingpenguin>I looked at Kea at some point and there wasn't much discussion about it on the mailing lists, not sure about clients.
<nmeum>I guess I will send a bug report then
<nmeum>I might also be able to come up with a dhcpcd package
<freakingpenguin>That be cool to see!
<nmeum> https://issues.guix.gnu.org/68619
<peanuts>"dhcp-client-service-type uses end-of-life dhclient" https://issues.guix.gnu.org/68619
<nmeum>might have time to work on a dhcpcd package next week
<fnat>Does anyone know how to create TLS certificates with certbot and nginx, in one go? I usually do it in two steps, first configuring a plain-text nginx, requesting the certs, finally reconfiguring the system (and nginx specifically) to use the certs.
<fnat>While this works, it's not exactly seamless.
<fnat>I suppose an alternative is to generate self-signed certs that will allow nginx to use the final (TLS) configuration straightaway?
<first_timer>gui installer isnt on screen properly is ther something i canm do
<jpoiret>first_timer: wdym isn't on screen properly? does it not display at all?
<jpoiret>do you have an amd gpu/cpu?
<mrh57>is there a way to specify package versions when installing packages via guix home?
<apteryx>sneek: seen phodina
<sneek>Sorry, haven't seem 'em.
<lilyp>mrh57: yes, you can use specifications->manifest if I'm not mistaken, or use version variables, like gtk+-3
<ieure>mrh57, It depends on what versions you're trying to use. For Guix packages where there are multiple versions available, those get assigned to a different variable, and you can use that in your package list. For example, (gnu packages python) has a python-2.7 variable for the 2.7 package.
<ieure>mrh57, But the versions available depend on the commits in your channel, and you can't refer to a package version which doesn't exist in some channel. So if python-2.7 gets bumped from 2.7.18 to 2.7.19, you can't refer to the old version.
<ieure>I _think_ you want (specification->package "package@version"), not specification->manifest. But if that version doesn't exist in some channel, it won't install.
<ieure>Inferiors is the mechanism to mix package versions from older commits of channels, but I'm not familiar with it or whether/how well it works with Guix Home.
<first_timer>jpoiret yes i have an amd cpu ryzen with igpu its like stretched off the screen partially out of visible screen but i managed to get through the gui setup and now its doing something
<first_timer>copying to '/mnt[###]
<mrh57>ieure: ah yes of course using the actual name in the package, thanks!
<mrh57>good tip about using specification->package
<mrh57>I wonder if there's any difference between 'package-name' and 'specification->package "package-name@latest"'
<lilyp>ah yeah, my bad, guix home doesn't understand manifests yet
<lilyp>(specification->package "package-name") gives you exactly the same thing as `guix install package-name'
<lilyp>sometimes, package names don't match variable names, so watch out for that
<ieure>mrh57, If you use the var, the package will get upgraded if the package definition bound to it changes; if you use (specification->package "package@1.2.3"), and the package is updated, replacing 1.2.3 with 1.2.4, it will break.
<ieure>This may be good behavior or bad behavior, depending on your perspective.
<ieure>And yes, as lilyp states, if you don't provide a version to specification->package, it's the same. The package name in that case comes from the value of the (package ...) field, not the variable that package object is bound to.
<ieure>ex. the python-3.1 var is bound to a package whose name is "python".
<mrh57>ieure: right yes that makes sense, that's actually the issue I was running into where the latest Go in guix is 1.21, and if you do `guix install go` you get 1.21 because guix installs `go-1.21` as it is defined in `golang.scm`, but for some reason guix home when putting `go` in `(packages (list ...))` was installing `go-1.17`
<mrh57>not sure if that's an issue with guix home or my guix home but explicitly putting `go-1.21` in the guix home file worked as expected
<ieure>mrh57, It's because of this line in (gnu package golang): (define-public go go-1.17)
<ieure>When you `guix install package-name', it installs the latest version of the package with that name, which is 1.21.
<ieure>I agree this is confusing and not idea, I'm not sure why the `go' variable is pointed to 1.17.
<ieure>Guessing backwards compatibility to deal with "Go 1.20 and later requires Go 1.17 as the bootstrap toolchain." as mentioned in golang.scsm.
<ieure>*scm
<mrh57>ieure: "when you `guix install package-name" it installs the latest version" oh that's very interesting I didn't know that, that's sort of strange
<ieure>Isn't that the way basically every package manager works?
<first_timer>im on a thinkpad l15 gen1 and when i boot into guix i get some errors then the screen jjust freezes how doi enable loading non free firmware (sorry)
<ieure>first_timer, You might have a different issue, firmware stuff typically prevents some devices (wifi, bluetooth) from working, but doesn't generally crash the system. What are the errors?
<podiki>you can try with kernel parameter "nomodeset" as well (if it is just "frozen" in that the display doesn't update)
<podiki>mrh57 ieure: very often the highest version of a package is not what is used in build systems, which is why you see things like that for go, gcc, etc.
<podiki>updating the default is needed and gets done, but requires everything to be rebuilt that needs that and often means packages need to be updated, fixed, etc.; so it tends to lag behind
<first_timer>heres jjust a few things i see on my screen
<first_timer>GC Warning couldn't read /proc/stat
<first_timer>udevd[[161] no sender credentials received, message ignored
<first_timer>hci0 missing free firmware (non free firmware loading is diabled)
<first_timer>bluetooth hci0 fauled to load firmware file
<first_timer>bluetooth hci0 failed to set up firmware
<first_timer>then thers just and underscore and i cant do anything
<ieure>podiki, Makes sense -- just feels kind of backwards to me. If the build system depends on a specific version, shouldn't it specify that explicitly, rather than relying implicitly on the default version being the older one it needs?
<podiki>first_timer: well the messages tell you your bluetooth controller likely won't work (linux-libre our kernel does not allow loading of non-free firmware/binary blobs)
<podiki>ieure: i suppose that could be flipped, though i would imagine there are many places using the variable name "go" (for instance) which would then all need to be updated whenever the version change
<podiki>s
<ieure>podiki, Yes, it's rough at either extreme.
<podiki>for go though you can specify in a package what version of go to use in arguments, if i remember
<podiki>"#:go go-1.21" for instance
<podiki>either way, from a user at the cli it won't be obvious; maybe package descriptions could note what is used in build systems so a user knows?
<mwette>OMG, #64653 is fixed (on my system); thanks civodul
<peanuts>"?static-networking? fails to start" https://issues.guix.gnu.org/64653
<first_timer>it jjust freezes after getting to that line failing to set up bluetooth firmware i will try to figure out how to do the thing you said earlier  kernel parameter "nomodeset"
<ieure>first_timer, Is this happening booting the installer, or booting an installation?
<first_timer>the insdtaller gui was a bit stretched but i managed to get through it succesfully this is upon booting the install i just did
<podiki>you can press "e" on the grub screen to edit the boot command and add "nomodeset" there; if i'm remembering (though not sure where on the line it goes, probably just at the end?)
<first_timer>thanks for the guidance
<abbe__>hi, trying to create a .zshrc for my home environment with a zsh plugin referenced, https://paste.debian.net/1304758
<peanuts>"debian Pastezone" https://paste.debian.net/1304758
<abbe__>wondering if someone could point out the right way to implement this
<abbe__>zshrc (default: '()) (type: text-config), but i'm not quite sure how to implement it non-statically, previously i was using plain-file without the referenced zsh plugin, and it was working fine
<abbe__>ACTION is at guix revision 17187aab61b064aff42a0fe911313011b7162de5
<first_timer>Success guys i am in XFCE signed in thanks for the help
<oriansj>what package provides libmath.a or libmath.so ?
<oriansj>as binutils and glibc don't seem to provide it
<abbe__>maybe: https://packages.debian.org/search?searchon=contents&keywords=libmath.so&mode=filename&suite=stable&arch=any
<peanuts>"Debian -- Package Contents Search Results -- libmath.so" https://packages.debian.org/search?searchon=contents&keywords=libmath.so&mode=filename&suite=stable&arch=any
<zyd>I feel like this is a bug or at the very least unintended/undesired behavior: I installed Guix on Fedora, and before I installed Guix I had compiled Emacs and installed various things. So I had built up quite a collection of Info files which contained a lot of entries in the `dir' file. But after I installed Guix, Guix overwritten the the dir file in /usr/local/share/info obliterating the `dir' file.
<zyd>I have lots of info files in /usr/local/share/info but none of its getting picked up because of Guix.
<oriansj>abbe__: libmath.a or libmath.so would be to link to #include <math.h> which is a standard libc; so it should be kind of standard
<abbe__>well, that's libm.so
<abbe__>not libmath.so
<rekado>zyd: Guix does not touch anything in /usr
<abbe__>and is provided by glibc
<zyd>rekado: Would you like a screenshot?
<rekado>zyd: no.
<zyd>I can prove Guix does as there a symlinks present.
<zyd>I installed via the documentation, the shell script. All normal procedure.
<rekado>Guix or software installed with Guix?
<rekado>if you can record it in a bug report, please send your info to bug-guix@gnu.org
<zyd>I installed the Guix package manager and the only thing I installed via Guix has been Guile and the hello package.
<rekado>(better without a screenshot but something in text format)
<zyd>Will do
<rekado>thanks!
<oriansj>abbe__: thanks that worked ^_^
<abbe__>np!
<zyd>rekado: Is there any info about my system that Guix hackers need to know aside from Guix and OS version?
<aarcov>Does anyone know how to create a snippet that matches multiple lines for a guix package?
<aarcov>I'm trying to patch out an optional dependency that I don't have building yet for a rust-crate, but matching the multiline config is giving me trouble
<aarcov>This is what I'm trying to match: https://paste.debian.net/1304763
<peanuts>"debian Pastezone" https://paste.debian.net/1304763
<aarcov>and what I'm trying to work with: https://paste.debian.net/1304762/
<peanuts>"debian Pastezone" https://paste.debian.net/1304762
<abbe__>how to pass an evaluated gexp to a function argument where a string is expected ?
<rekado>zyd: it would be helpful to know about how you installed Guix.
<rekado>abbe__: that sounds rather convoluted. Do you have a concrete example?
<abbe__>rekado: trying to create a .zshrc for my home environment with a zsh plugin referenced, https://paste.debian.net/1304758
<Kabouik>I'm having trouble with mpv listed in my config.scm: https://0x0.st/H0nv.txt It's the first time I have this issue, I've been using Guix on two machines for about two years without this conflict. Any ideas? It works fine if I comment out mpv in config.scm and reconfigure, or install mpv with guix install.
<peanuts>"debian Pastezone" https://paste.debian.net/1304758
<zyd>rekado: Yeah, I included that and sent :)
<abbe__>rekado: https://paste.debian.net/1304767/ is my most recent attempt
<peanuts>"debian Pastezone" https://paste.debian.net/1304767