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2023-08-27.log
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<xelxebar>Awww. simh package not building. Was super excited about trying Unix V7. <xelxebar>Time-machining a 2 year old commit and still pulling in substitutes?! <Groumf>xelxebar what behavior were you expecting? I am curious. <lilyp>I'm pretty sure that with some package managers you get unavailable binaries in less than six months <xelxebar>Yeah, I expected substitutes to not be kept around for all that long. Granted, I also have no idea about Guix's revenue streams, if any. <lilyp>We're running this on donated hardware. IIRC, garbage collection is done, but there's an effort to at least keep disk images building <lilyp>šļøhearsay, apply generous amounts of salt <Groumf>I think there are also a few people actually paid to build guix <viaken>I need to get me one of them jobs. I'd gladly spend all day throwing packages together for a distro. <Groumf>Some devops people do nix stuff for a living. <radio>Does anyone know what could it be? <Groumf>you are on a host distribution or it's guix? <Groumf>err I'm not. And I'm not too knowledgeable with sheperd <Groumf>You need to check wether the daemon is running. <radio>Yes, it was, I restarted it and am trying to pull again <Groumf>it may be a permission issue also, the user who builds must be part of a specific group <Groumf>hmmm it's guixbuild on my computer <radio>That's fine, don't think it's related to the problem in question <radio>I haven't messed with build account in a while <Groumf>hmm I'm not sure honnestly. But your error message is quite specific <Groumf>(exception %exception (non-self-quoting 140736956332352 "#<&store-connection-error file: \"/var/guix/daemon-socket/socket\" errno: 2>")) <Groumf>could you simply do the following <Groumf>ls -la /var/guix/daemon-socket/socket <Groumf>well the -a is superfluous but that does not matter <Groumf>what is the output of that command? <radio>+radio at buer in ~ > ls -la /var/guix/daemon-socket/socket <radio>srw-rw-rw- 1 root root 0 Aug 26 20:49 /var/guix/daemon-socket/socket= <Groumf>hmmm actually your permissions are fine <Groumf>all of this looks like black magic to meā¦ <Groumf>out of curiosity, your custom channel also defines services? <radio>Which I also haven't touched in a while <radio>Probably not, last time I changed something in that service was three weeks ago <radio>I've sucessfully pulled many times since then <Groumf>and are you able to guix build something? anything? <Groumf>just to check if it really is a daemon access issue. <Groumf>Well, the true wizard are usually up when it's daylight in Europe <radio>I have a lot of space, actually <Groumf>well at this point I would trace how the exception occurs <Groumf>but maybe it's better to wait for a true wizard <radio>I honestly have no idea too, probably wait is the best option really <Groumf>np I am a bit salty too tbh, I have been trying the whole day to figure out how to patch runpaths. Life is hard. <lagash>I cannot remember, is there a bare-bones GuixSD system configuration for VM guests somewhere? <lagash>Never mind that. I am trying to compile Guix from source, and it errors with `cp: cannot create regular file '.git/hooks/pre-push': No such file or directory` I am not sure what I am missing. <lagash>The closest issue I can find is #63261, but that was a few months ago, and seemed resolved. <apteryx>lagash: is there a .git/hooks directory in your tree? <apteryx>the test checks if there's a .git, and assumes .git/hooks exists <lagash>apteryx: why would it not be there, though? I literally just did a full clone.. <mirai>did you do the bootstrap step <sneek>mirai, jpoiret says: that can always be added later :) <lagash>mirai: yes, I did, and the configure step, too <lagash>Would it hurt to do it again, just in case? <mirai>by sourceā¦ you mean a git clone of guix right <mirai>or is this a tarball/zip of guix <lagash>I just retried the steps - still the same error. <mirai>are you within guix directory? <lagash>Yes. I would not expect the bootstrap and configure steps to work otherwise. <lagash>It errored out pretty close to finishing, so this might take awhile to compile up to that point. <lagash>Although, .git/hooks still does not exist. <bdju>I've just tried installing and using fwupd, but got an error about polkit. what other setup is needed? I heard there is an issue with some samsung ssd firmware that can lead to data loss, so I wanted to update <bdju>error: Failed to open polkit agent: missing executable pkttyagent in PATH <bdju>Failed to connect to daemon: GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name org.freedesktop.fwupd was not provided by any .service files <bdju>I am using %base-services + Sway <jpoiret>bdju: you need dbus + polkit + fwupd installed system-wide <bdju>thank you, I will give that a go. <Groumf>ice-9/eval.scm:223:20: In procedure proc: <Groumf>and there, the nonguix variable is unbound <jpoiret>bdju: and having these is probably not enough, you also need to start the dbus user session and then sway in it <bdju>jpoiret: is polkit a package or a service? I see I already have a dbus-service. also how do you "start the dbus user session and then sway in it"? different than running `exec sway` in tty? <jpoiret>it should be a service as well, and you need `exec dbus-lauch-session -- sway` instead i think <jpoiret>polkit's described in "Desktop Services" <the_tubular>Is there something that already exist to merge multiple manifest.scm file togheter ? <jpoiret>"Writing Manifests" in the manual describes it :) <bdju>to Andreas who is closing issues on bug-guix, I think it would be best to leave the original subject so people can tell at a glance what the issue is without looking up the # instead of changing them all to "Closing" <jpoiret>and here I was wondering if I had enough space left <lilyp>the_tubular: it's the manifest containing inkscape's inputs, same as the -D flag to guix shell <radio>Couldn't find yet a solution to my problem <radio>Would appreciate if someone could take a look <roptat>radio, something wrong with your radix channel it seems <roptat>and, avoid pulling as root unless that's really what you want to do <radio>I started pulling as root for when I want to reconfigure my system because I found too cumbersome to delete .cache/guix/checkouts whenever I used guix after running doas guix with keepenv <radio>Actually I would appreciate if there was a way to only pull as my user and not having to delete .cache/guix/checkouts <jpoiret>why do you want to delete .cache/guix/checkouts? <radio>I think is kind of an detail of implementation that shouldn't be visible <radio>Like, guix should deal with it for me <jpoiret>it's literally what it says, it's a cache for checkouts that guix creates <jpoiret>if you delete this you'll be downloading the whole repo again on eg. pull <jpoiret>you shouldn't need to delete that directory in general <radio>Well, I simply get a safe.directory error when I use guix after using doas guix system reconfigure <radio>And the only solution someone mentioned to it was deleting .cache/guix/checkouts <radio>Btw I found the problem with my channel :) <aeroplane>I was adviced to jump here as I want to install guix in my car <hwpplayer1>:) ask your question how to run Guix and/or what is Guix ? <aeroplane>ah ok, yes I will check and ask questions, thanks! <roptat>guix is both a package manager that can run on any linux distribution and a linux distribution <sneek>Someone once said Guix is pretty neat, it has all the packages and doesn't afraid of anything. <nckx>A fully useless answer but still. <aeroplane>My main concern only would be is installing packages. <roptat>what is kind of OS is your car running? android auto maybe? <aeroplane>Will that ever be a problem since, I use Ubuntu and installing packages is simple as $ sudo apt install <pacakge> <aeroplane>If lets say I want to try something that is not available in guix package ecosystem. I think I can build the package and use it? <roptat>you can use guix on top of any other distro, the packages don't interfere (guix only installs stuff in /gnu/store, which apt is not aware of) <roptat>so you can keep using either guix or apt <aeroplane> roptat: That means, I can use it in Docker as well? <roptat>I think so, but I've never tried <roptat>IĀ don't think there is a guix image on docker hub though <aeroplane>yeah I cannot see any official, but nonetheless I would try and experiment <roptat>radio, this looks like your git config has a config option (safe.directory) that guile-git or libgit doesn't understand <lilyp>okay ladies, how do I get substitutes for webkitgtk on gnome-team? weather says 1/3 items is missing and not queued (probably the debug output) <jpoiret>how can only one output be missing š¤ <radio>Idk honestly if something in there is related to "safe.directory" in someway <radio>Actually, since it says that safe.directory is missing, it's more probably that (if you guys don't have such problem) you have a safe.directory configuration that I don't have <davidl>which package has libGLESv2.so.2? <roptat>radio, mh, no I don't have one either <davidl>I have installed mesa and mesa-utils and still can't find it <roptat>it's here: /gnu/store/qiw0rpaj4rlgpldh12xac03n8rf301zm-mesa-23.1.4/lib/libGLESv2.so.2 <roptat>what are you trying to do with a library? <davidl>thx, sry I made a mistake in my find command <geri>hey, i added a patch to bash package definition locally, how do i test that it works now? <davidl>I need to update wdisplays, it complains about not finding libGLESv2.so.2 <geri>i created a branch at ~/.cache/guix/checkouts/*guix-repo-hash* <roptat>geri, I don't think it's a good idea to do work there, it's a cache directory, so it could disappear any time <radio>roptat: since sudo keeps environment variables on guix, whenever you run sudo guix the guix being used is from the user running the command, still you don't have the same problem I have using doas with keepenv? <roptat>radio, I don't know actually, I don't use doas <geri>i need to edit bash definition and add a patch file to patches directory, idk how to do it outside of the repo... <radio>Yes, but using sudo you have no problem, do you have? <roptat>to test quickly, you can also use a package transformation option, like guix build bash --with-patch=bash=/path/to/my.patch <radio>roptat: hmm, I'll search about that problem then, thanks <radio>Can someone remember me where the thing of sudo preserving environment variables on guix is setted up? <janneke>ACTION really wishes guix shell would be smarter <janneke>it seems that even after a guix shell --rebuild-cache (which i could have been detected automagically), a `guix shell --search-paths' will still return a stale, cached version? <Guest19>is there a doc for understading the varibales & important function of config.scm ? <radio>But that link is mentioned on the cookbook too <radio>Seems that I just have to mark as safe.directory the git directory that guix home reconfigure operates when it runs <radio>The point is, IDK which directory is it <radio>I tried to read the implementation, but I ain't too used to it to the point of gather such information easily <lnnk>Is there any list of desktop environment supported/funded by fsf? <Guest19>is there a "metapackage" for xorg which I can use to pull in all packages of classical Xorg configs and pass this name to specification->packager ? <Guest19>or I need to define manually a list with what I want ? <Guest19>dont need soemthing which pulls deskop componenets in <nckx>janneke: That's just āa bugā, no? <radio>AwesomeAdam54321: GNUstep is not from the GNU project, if I remember well <radio>Ah, yeah, it's gnuplot that isn't GNU software <janneke>nckx: right, i'll see if i can create a reproducer <Guest19>the gnu module contains the set of all packages defined in Guix repository ? <radio>There are multiple modules that contains packages separed by topic <radio>(gnu packages admin) contains admin related packages, as sudo, doas and stuff <radio>(gnu packages games) contains games <Guest19>tringĀ to learn the declarative sistemwide config config <Guest19>I want to add xorg for now, but the purpose is to learn how it works. not just to paste some code <Guest19>and learn structure of the packagin system <Guest19>so gnu module is the namespace for allk GNU packages ? <radio>Actually the (gnu) module only provides the use-package-modules, use-service-modules and use-system-modules macros <Guest19>I see. It will take some time to get used with it is seems <radio>But every package you will want to install (if it's provided by default by guix and not by some external channel you have setted up) is under (gnu packages <something-here>) <radio>Someone using the guix system can send me the output of the "sudo env"? <radio>or, more precisely (if you don't want to share your entire environment variables set) "sudo env | grep USER" <Guest19>Ā ohh specification->package does the trick nicely for now <radio>akonai: Thanks... So that's not how the sudo solves the safe.directory problem <Guest19>if you run it with sudo also adds SUDO_USER=me <lnnk>Is gnome not funded by fsf? <akonai>oh, sorry if you were asking about sudo - I ran it directly in the root shell <AwesomeAdam54321>lnnk: In the past it was, but since GNOME 3 the GNOME project cut official ties with GNU and the FSF <lnnk>Does it have property software baked into its desktop environment? <radio>The gnome package definition on guix doens't apply any changes to remove anything <radio>AwesomeAdam54321: Yeah, I was going to say the same hehe <radio>Someone could send me the entire output of "sudo env" on a guix system? <PotentialUser-17>I'm trying to run a foreign binary (rustup) on Guix with fhs emulation, but I can't get it to run because the container is missing libgcc_s. Which guix package provides this dynamic library? <Guest19>I have in the store programs like sqlite, prolly installed as a dependence of some guile lib or god knows <Guest19>yet their executable names are not exposed <Guest19>why is there a sqlite binary , and its not exposed ? <radio>Guest19: The only things you can run are the ones in some dir within your PATH variable <radio>Dependencies aren't linked to any profile, so you can't run them <Guest19>ok, so if I want one of them globally, you install from config, and you get the links <Guest19>no duplicates if its in store, just links it <radio>Or via config.scm, or via home.scm, or even running guix install as root or normal user <radio>You just have to put it in some guix profile <radio>Guest19: Yes, no duplicates, only links <PotentialUser-17>AwesomeAdam54321 Also, do I put that code-snippet in a config.scm, or is there a command-line switch that I can pass it with? <Guest19>how do you instally globally the *exact* compiler used to build the running system ? <Guest19>speaking about gcc here, not other ones <radio>Guest19: Why you want to do so? <AwesomeAdam54321>PotentialUser-17: It shouldn't be too difficult, Rust nightly can be compiled from the latest release I think <radio>I didn't messed with kernel stuff yet (not on guix and not on other distros) so IDK how guix deals with that, if it compiles it by you or something <radio>But if you only want a compiler, there's gcc-toolchain <Guest19>yeah, but for the global compiler I prefer exactly the one which is running to build everything <Guest19>for local store compiler i might instal gcc 13 or whatever <AwesomeAdam54321>PotentialUser-17: guix shell -e $'(list (@@ (gnu packages gcc) gcc) "lib")' <AwesomeAdam54321>I don't know how to put in a config.scm, adding (@@ (gnu packages gcc) gcc) "lib") should work <Guest19>Im using a bond interfaceon other systemsĀ which failovers betwen a wifi netowork interface and a wired one. DHCP is setup for bond0 . <Guest19>Anyway to replicate this network config in guix ? <Guest19>Every reconfigure Guix insists on making itself the default bootable entry in the UEFI table. Any way to provent that ? I need it to respect the order I set up inĀ UEFI firmware setup <nckx>Guest19: You can use (bootloader (bootloader (inherit grub-efi-bootloader) (installer #~(const #t)))) to prevent Guix from installing GRUB, which is what changes the default. There is no option (yet) to ask GRUB not to do this (--no-nvram). <lilyp>you can also use the empty list as target IIRC <lnnk>Is there any fsf group available? <nckx>lnnk: There's #fsf. (They are called channels, by the way. āŗ) <nckx>In general, you can use ā/msg alis LIST #fsf*ā to search for channels on this network. <apteryx>basically strip all the networking-related services <lnnk>Nckx: #fsf. Channel is empty? <nckx>Did you include the ā.ā by accident? <nckx>ā/join #fsfā, no ā.ā. <nckx>Joining any channel will create it, but it will be rather lonely if you're the first. <lnnk>nckx: I cannot login into #fsf. It shows "Cannot join channel (+r) - you need to be logged into your NickServ account " what should I do next? <nckx>Try following that guide. If you get stuck I'll try to help you, but I have to leave just now. <geri>is it normal that trying to build patched bash is also trying to compile whole gcc? <geri>using guix build --with-patch doesn't do that <nckx>geri: Depends entirely on how you patched said bash, which bash is being patched, as GCC depends on a bash. <geri>i just edited one line that enables sourcing system bashrc <geri>is there a way to skip compiling gcc? <geri>also i don't see bash in gnu/packages/gcc.scm at all <nckx><i just edited> Uhuh, but how, and where? <nckx><is there a way to skip compiling gcc> If you modified GCC, you can't skip it, no. <geri>added a patch to gnu/packages/patches, and edited bash definition to include that patch <nckx>How about creating your own bash variant using (inherit bash), adding the patch to that, and using the (shell ā¦) field of your user-account? <nckx>This is not worth recompiling the entire world, forever, and that's what you're currently choosing to do. <Guest67>sudo guix install ... will do for root exactly wat it does for a regular user, no / <Guest67>No modification to global system store ? <lilyp>assuming root and $USER are on the same commit, $PACKAGE will only be built once, yes <Guest67>and roots packages will not be globally accesible , yes ? <Guest67>like a package installed from config.scm <lilyp>Any user in the system can point to /gnu/store/weird-hash/bin/whatever and run the command. However, as far as profiles are concerned, only root will have whatever directly on their PATH. <geri>nckx: i want to contribute the patch cause current behavior bash has makes no sense <geri>bash completion works in login shells but not in non-login shells because SYS_BASHRC varible isnt enabled <nckx>Guest67: There is no (second) global package profile besides the system one. <nckx>geri: Then yes, you'll be rebuilding GCC and therefore the world if you want to test/use your patch in that form. <nckx>That's expected and correct, and no way to subvert it that isn't abusing grafts & whatnot. <geri>tfw switched to guix to not have to compile everything from source <geri>why does --with-patch=bash=/path/to/patch work just fine without recompiling everything? <mitchell>hello guix. I am trying to run `herd status` as root and it just hangs. `herd status` run as a user returns my list of home services as usual. Does anyone know what would cause this? <nckx>Switching to a source-based *functional* distro might not have been the best move. To say the very least :-) <nckx>It generally means more builds, not fewer. <geri>so far there's like infinitely less manual building involved <geri>chromium decided to get compiled from source one time but other than that it's p good <Guest67>of all things, it had to be chromium :P <geri>mitchell: i had that once, it went away after restarting <Guest67>with default 1.4 .0 today shutdown always hanged <Guest67>had toĀ guix pull, then it went away <geri>funnily, herd status as non-root always gives me a `/run/user/1002/shepherd/socket: No such file or directory` error <mitchell>geri: Thats because you don't have a user shepherd service running <mitchell>if you use guix home to provide you some services like gpg-agent it will work <mitchell>Guest67: where does shepherd leave it's log? <nikolar>mitchell: if you have ntp service, it changed your system clock <nikolar>Which caused a known bug with shepherd <Guest67>should be in standar locations for a log, but was nothing there for me <geri>nckx: i tried copying bash definition, adding patches and everything and it couldn't find the new package <mitchell>nikolar: That's probably it. I'm pretty sure my cmos battery is dead because the bootloader keeps "forgetting" that I don't want to secure boot windows <nikolar>Yeah the best option you have is probably to reconfigure without ntp <mitchell>Guest67: You laugh but I've gotten into the habit of sending guix system to my co-workers who are only willing to interact with it using WSL <Guest67>i slowly learned to let people do what they want. Windows makes them happy ? Thats ok. <nikolar>I mean it's not, but what can you do <mitchell>It is to a point. But we have to work together and that means sharing development environments. Guix is the best tool for that and it will work in WSL so why not <geri>is guix installable in wsl? <Guest67>today I learn basic package management <mitchell>you can guix system image with wsl as a target <geri>i had trouble where trying to install nix in wsl would throw a bsod <mitchell>it will make a tar ball you can feed wsl on the command line <Guest67>mid week maybe see how I can package my own shit so I can work with it at a glance <nikolar>Should you be able to rollback when you're booted into an older generation <Guest67>it has some learing curve. luckily i still rember basic lisp , so at least I dont have to fight that <mitchell>6 years ago I began my study of lisp on a whim and declared to my coworkers that I would bring it into our workplace and thanks to guix I actually made it happen lol <geri>mitchell making dreams come true <Guest67>it has some really nice features so far <geri>i wonder, does anyone here prefer guix on a foreign distro over guix system and why? <mitchell>geri: I do for one reason and one reason only. Xilinx <nikolar>mitchell: that's svako actually very cool <mitchell>I have not figured out a way to do without xilinx's tools and it doesn't like being run in guix container --emulate-fhs <mitchell>so i use a bare bones ubuntu with the stuff xilinx wants and everything else comes from guix <geri>first time hearing the word honestly :D <AwesomeAdam54321>geri: I prefer Guix on a foreign distro because I changed my init system to Shepherd and it's not Guix System <mitchell>If you don't need special proprietary tools guix system is really great <nikolar>geri: id prefer guix on foreign distro for one reason <geri>AwesomeAdam54321: gentoo? :D <Guest67>well its prebuilt, will have a hard time locating any library <mitchell>Also if you have a coroprate work station you will have a much easier time convincing them to allow guix on the foreign distro than going full guix system as they likely have proprietary tools they don't want to do without <Guest67>maybe patchelf will get you running it <geri>don't you need to compile things for each init system? <AwesomeAdam54321>It's less convenient though because I have to do 'sudo halt' than clicking the shutdown button <geri>mitchell: i think it's probably one of the best reasons - you get declarative part via guix home/manifests/etc while still being able to use precompiled binaries and stuff like that <geri>do you gain anything from it AwesomeAdam54321 <nikolar>You would have to go for a non free guix <mitchell>ugh steam... Even when you get it running it's a ticking time bomb until it breaks again because it has the audacity to update itself whenever it pleases <mitchell>I wish I could burn my steam games onto cd's <geri>i wish video games weren't so proprietary <AwesomeAdam54321>geri: I agree, especially libre point and click adventure games because there's barely any <Guest67>Well, they pure tenths of millions into AAA <mitchell>alas most people are not as paranoid about blobs and care more about "eating" than ethics <jonsger>is there a way to copy a Guix System from one hard disk to another? <jonsger>dd the whole partition didn't worked for me :( <nikolar>mitchell: well we are all running at least gpu and cpu blobs <mitchell>jonsger: What do you mean it didn't work? How are you measuring success <jonsger>mitchell: that the system boots from the new disk :) <geri>ik there are, but like 99% aren't free software <geri>what happened instead of booting? <jonsger>there is just a white "_" on the black screen and not the dialog for entering the LUKS password... <mitchell>jonsger: Does the parition have the same UUID as before? You may need to update that kind of thing <geri>iirc if it's done w/ dd it's gonna be the same <mitchell>he said he dd'd the partition and not the disk <Guest67>lots of firmware needed today. they scraped EPROMS and just upload the crap <mitchell>depending on how he did it it may be different <jonsger>mitchell: I think I mean disk dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/sdb <geri>then it should be the same, cause otherwise my dd'ing a vm image onto a usb stick wouldn't work <geri>cause in /etc/fstab UUID's are specified <mitchell>nikolar: I know about the microcode and it's a sad state that the companies won't share the sources with us. I'm not sure what they have to gain by keeping it secret but it's probably not good for us. <mitchell>nikolar: Like what? As far as i know micro code is just more complicated cpu instructions emulated by software + bug fixes for hw instructions. Do you think anyone is doing anything so complicated here that the other companies are not doing the same things? <geri>at least risc-V is a thing, let's hope it's gonna dominate in the future <mitchell>Perhaps it can contain hardware details not published <mitchell>unpublished hardware details are sketchy too. <nikolar>I'm not sure for CPUs, but ssds for example have a lot of magic sauce <Guest67>it aint wasted from their POV imo. it is assumed to generate profits <nikolar>Also a lot of CPUs share the same hardware <nikolar>So some higher end features are presumably locked in microcode <Guest67>get your license, unlock tbhe feature <nckx>geri: You need to volunteer slightly more info: copying *where*, and *how* are you testing it? Use the pastebin in the topic if it helps. <mitchell>If your goal is to generate profits then no it's not wasted. But if your goal is to contribute meaningfully towards human progress you need to make your designs public so everyone doesn't reinvent the wheel. I believe no progress is made until it's implemented in free software. <nckx>ACTION still officially away, tho. <mitchell>Guest67: When you die everything you didn't share dies too <bumble>maybe free software users are like the vegans, but instead of improving the world by resisting meat they resist proprietary software <Guest67>Ā megacorps are much more than one individual. The IP of Apple didntb died witbh jobs <nikolar>Well resisting meat doesn't actually improve the world unlike free software <geri>nckx: then i copied the bash package definition as `patched-bash`, reverted previous one and did the same build command with patched-bash instead, says package not found <nckx>That is not enough info. <Guest67>say what you want about him but Stallman was/is a visionary <nckx>Which file, which location, which command(s), ... <nckx>Sharing a literal diff is fine. <Guest67>he did predict a time when using a debugger is illegal :P Today is, in some circumstances <nckx>So is yeeting your terminal output into a paste. <Guest67>well, DMCA only allows reversin for interop if I intepret it well' <mitchell>He predicted a time where it would be impossible to do your school work without using proprietary software which came true after 2020. I took a math class and I couldn't access my text book without running non free java script and giving them all my personal information. I couldn't submit my homework either. Lucky for me I was educated about this already and sent an angry email, which was ignored, and did not submit my homework for that <geri>mitchell: did you write hw on paper instead <zamfofex>mitchell: Thank you for bothering to voice your opinions. I feel like that is already more than many of us would do, myself included. <jonsger>mitchell: the UUIDs of the partitions are the same, but the PARTUUID did change :( <nikolar>mitchell: i mean it wasn't that crazy to extrapolate knowing where software was going <distopico>QQ, there is way to express CLI options inside manifest.scm or guix.scm? I <distopico> have for example `-F -N --expose=/var/run/dbus --preserve='^DISPLAY$'...` <distopico> so the easy call the command a have a script ./scrips/container.sh but <distopico> I've like to just call `guix shell -m manifest.scm` or `guix shell` and <distopico> read those option form the config without additional scripts, is that possible? <Guest67>At work everybody was more than happy to be engulfed in MNs ecosystem <mitchell>nikolar: it's easy to say that in hind sight but he was the only one that I know of articulating these things at that time <nikolar>Software was proprietary back then and pretty much all programmers wrote proprietary code <Guest67>Lisp machines where closed software ? <mitchell>Most people don't have any idea how technology works. Carl sagen put it best when he said we were going into a terrible situation where everyone is dependent on technology but don't know anything about it <mitchell>nikolar: To hear stallman say it things were not that way. Software in academia was open source by default and they didn't even have a term for it. It was only later when symbolics hired away all his collegues to produce the close sourced lisp machines that he began his crusade <mitchell>Actually Stallman thinks "open source" is a marketing gimmic to make people care only about the source code and less about the 4 freedoms <Guest67>yeah, I tend to use a kind of social Ocamm's razor <nikolar>Yeah open source is really an annoying term to me <mitchell>I don't care about the source code if i can't modify it and redistribute it <Guest67>when stupidity or ignorance or incompetence is enough to explain something I go with that hypothesis <nikolar>And permissive licenses make little sense <zamfofex>As I like to word it, āopen sourceā promotes making the source code available publicly for *your* own benefit, whereas āfree softwareā promotes making source code available publicly for the benefit of the community. <geri>even just being able to see sources is infinitely better than proprietary software <geri>zamfofex: i guess that's a good way to put it <mitchell>It's a corporate ploy to get people to publish their work in a way that lets them use it and rob those freedoms from their customers. <Guest67>Well maybe true with FreeBSD and Sony <ulfvonbe`>honestly I feel like the computing freedom barrier of the future is neither copyright nor source-availability: it's complexity, e.g. how difficult it is to even attempt to modify a modern web browser while maintaining compatibility, much less to do so without introducing security vulnerabilities <Guest67>but dont think it's a ploy. rather an accident <stikonas>Guest67: but e.g. google with android deliberately avoided copyleft software <nikolar>geri but how do you know that's the exact code they are compiling to build their binaries <mitchell>Not everyone is convinced about the ethical arguments for the 4 freedoms <nikolar>stikonas: they still do with all their projects <mitchell>people are very smug about not using the gpl <geri>nikolar: you can't ever know that' even with libre <nikolar>But you can build and redistribute it your's <geri>hence why guix challenge exists <nikolar>mitchell: thus permissive licenses are basically giving your work to big companies for free <nikolar>If you were an employee you'd at least get payed <stikonas>well, that's why reproducible builds in general matter... <geri>but instead of what patch does to bash.scm, i just compied bash definition completely and made a new public variable called bash--test <jonsger>ACTION reinstalls Guix System. It's wasted time to debug this problem, because I have no clue whats wrong.. <nckx>geri: And did you change the name? <geri>jonsger: that's a "problem" with reproducable configurations - if it's broken once there's a big chance it's broken everywhere <geri>nckx: yes, but if you want to i can make another patch just for a showcase <mitchell>What kind of voodoo engineering are you trying to pull <geri>but it does happen sometimes <nckx>If you modified the name field to say (name "bash-test") then ./pre-inst-env guix build bash-test should certainly work. <geri>it was also patched-bash <nckx>That why we'll need details, because whatever is happening is clearly hiding between the lines of your high-level āI did a thing and it doesn't work, halpā summary š <nckx>Right. The exact name certainly doesn't matter. <geri>and i probably can't send the patch before testing it first... <geri>nckx: what other details are needed? <nckx>Can you paste the entire āgit diffā output (or git show if you already committed)? If it's noisy, that's fine. <nckx>I think something is off about your bash variable, maybe, but who knows. <ulfvonbe`>just to be doubly-clear, "name field" here means (package ... (name "bash--test") ...), not the name given to define-public <mitchell>geri: where are you setting the name? Your h9lg.patch does not have a name field <ulfvonbe`>the define-public (vs just plain define) isn't so that guix knows where to look for a package with a given name, it's so that it knows to look at the package in that variable at all. <nckx>> If you modified the name field to say (name "bash-test") then ./pre-inst-env guix build bash-test should certainly work. <nckx>The if is important here :) <geri>yeah, ulfvonbe` i just forgot about the field completely <nckx>This is the kind of thing that can easily be missed in prose but a diff would have exposed immediately. <mitchell>geri: why patch this file? Is there a reason you don't want to inherit and just modify the sources that way? <geri>im doing a separate package only to not have to recompile my whole system <geri>it should actually go into bash itself <nckx>mitchell: They intend to make this change to the actual bash package eventually, so writing an inheritance would at best be wasting time, at worst introduce some oversight. <ulfvonbe`>I 'member when I patched glibc to remove a memory leak. That was the day I decided I needed an offload setup. <geri>i'd normally just compile overnight but not feeling it atm, plus i'd have to wait like 2 more hours <nckx>(It isn't? Yes, yes it is, remain calm and eat your greens.) <geri>bash--test got to compiling, yay <geri>when i just woke up and start reading messages i've been sent i always misread in the weirdest ways possible <geri>okay, my bash compiled fine <nikolar>Is /bin/sh a symlink to bash or something else <nckx>Also explain why your change is better because the status quo has, despite making no sense, been around forever. <nckx>It's the standard GNU shell. <geri>you can run `readlink /bin/sh` to check <nckx>Other /bin/sh implementations emulate bash, poorly. <geri>i prefer dash as /bin/sh, iirc there's a way to do that but i cba at the moment <nckx>nikolar: Well, you can point /bin/sh to pulseaudio if you like, but on Guix Systems it's always bash by default, no matter what (say) your user shell is. <geri>i always script in posix w/o bash extensions, so same <ulfvonbe`>my understanding is that bash modifies its behavior depending on whether it's envoked as 'bash' or as 'sh' <nckx>I think you can replace /bin/sh with an inferior emulation such as dash using extra-special-file, but I've not actually tried it myself. <nikolar>ulfvonbe` I think there are still differences <geri>if its called w/ sh executable name then it's gonna be more sh-like <geri>but [[ still works in posix mode <geri>[[ is actually defined by posix as "do whatever you want with this lol" <nckx>Uhm. POSIX doesn't say that ā[[ā has to break. Why would you demand that. <nikolar>But it's probably smart if you want interoperability with other shells <geri>that's problably why [[ is defined, but not strictly <nckx>GNU isn't POSIX, and POSIX isn't a relevant standard anyway, so any POSIX emulation is best-effort. <geri>how is it not a relevant standard... <nckx>It's an old standard that some OSes used to target a long time ago. <geri>can't agree completely cause alpine is really popular <geri>and it doesnt have full bash in it <geri>but it has all/most of posix in it <geri>butchered the terms but i hope it's understandable <nckx>I think Alpine is as close as you can get to POSIX in a modern LinuxĀ® distribution I think. <nckx>Did I mention that I think this. <nckx>I tried BSD LinuxĀ® once it was awful. <nckx>Didn't run any of my games. <geri>wonder if anyone uses that <ulfvonbe`>if posix is irrelevant why are we still stuck with nightmare file locks <geri>actually good question - are we talking about posix shell only or the whole standard <nckx>Oh. I was talking about the whole standard. There is nothing particular redemptive about the part where it defines a less-than-usable shell, the rest is just as disappointing. <geri>posix shell is plenty usable <geri>though it needs a lot of know-how for some more esothetic use-cases <nckx>I writeā¦ a *lot* of (POSIX) shell scripts, and eventually you get surprisingly skilled at building tree houses entirely out of footguns and chainsaws, but somewhere something went horribly wrong and a vocal group decided it was an end goal, something to defend rather than replace. It's like saying cars peaked in the USSR in the 70s and everything else āviolates the Lada standardā. <nckx>And that Bash's Lada mode is wrong because it doesn't break down quite often enough. <nckx>It's a fascinating subculture. <geri>cars did peak somewhere around there cause everything after keep's on pushing electronics where they don't belong <nckx>You might have a point there. <geri>tree houses out of footguns and chainsaws does sound about right haha <nckx>Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy it. <geri>i've just recently become a lisp believer but i can't bring myself to rewrite my scripts to anything else <geri>cause posix shell is 100% on every distro i could ever use, plus bsd's, etc <geri>one exception is i rewrote my websearch script in emacs lisp cause it's even more portable than shell script while being a lot more functional in my case <geri>cause encoding url's without special tools is difficult and emacs has a thing built-in for it <Guest19>true beleive, look here.Ā It's LISP (almost) all the way dow <geri>it's an open version of naugthydog's engine they used for J&D? <Guest19>need to register a nick, everytime laptop sleeps , nick changes <ulfvonbe`>> cause posix shell is 100% on every distro i could ever use, plus bsd's, etc <nckx>Guest19: Just FYI, you don't need to register a nick to use it. They are technically two separate steps. <Guest19>yeah, but i was lazy and let it on guest <Guest19>Guest 19 was taken by somone else meanwhile, i became Guest6smething <geri>i wonder if that's possible <nckx>It is perhaps a scam but I choose to believe. <geri>well, it does do something <geri>but (eq 1 2) returns t, so im not sure <geri>okay that's because apparently 1 == $1 <geri>this thing is pure black magic <ulfvonbe`>it did say "pure" lisp; it might not even have proper numbers, just conses, symbols, and lambdas <geri>gotta love lambda calculus <geri>at least that's what's said in readme <lilyp>really pure lisp has only two things: lambdas and gƶdel numbers <nikolar>ok i am trying guix system roll-back <vagrantc>nikolar: you could try rebooting and picking a different generation ... <geri>it's less ugly than debugging for 7 days that which could be fixed with a minute-long reboot <geri>do i attach my patch to the email or paste it in? <nckx>Ideally git send-email but attachments are happily tolerated. <charlotte112358>hi, anyone ever set up freeipa on guix? if not, any alternative you can recommend? <nckx>Those get mangled less easily than manually pasted patches in the body. <nikolar>also same issue with switch-generation <vagrantc>sure wish we could submit entire patch series as attachments ... that would skip the send initial proposed patch email, wait for bug number, send each follow-up patch as a separate mail, hope they each independently arrive in a reasonable order <vagrantc>i guess there are some tools that automate that ... but wow a single email with multiple attachments would be significantly more elegant :) <vagrantc>also allows me to sign the whole email message, which is trickier with git send-email ... <lilyp>I mean, you can do that ā send-email is preferred, but if your patches are fine, committers will filter them from the attachments as well <vagrantc>guess i should add that comment on the cognitive overhead <vagrantc>lilyp: it was definitely discouraged when i first started submitting patches <vagrantc>somewhere along the way i think folks loosened up a bit <vagrantc>lilyp: somewhere in the vein of "please don't" <vagrantc>in fact, at first even submitting patches as attachments was discouraged ... <vagrantc>there is at least one commit in git history that shows a little weird because of that <vagrantc>heh. 336c4a4baadb2211157a819991bdce16c14595f9 <nckx>Discouraged by someone, maybe. <nckx>Seems like if you'd asked at least lilyp or me you'd have got a different answer then..e <lilyp>Well, I wasn't active in 2018 <nckx>lilyp: That's no excuse. <vagrantc>ACTION eyes up the growing todo list and prepares to wander off yet again <lagash>My network connection is rather shaky and slow. Is there any tips on cloning the Guix repo "on a budget"? <lilyp>guix time-machine --go-back-to 2018 --sign-off vagrantcs-commit --edit-away-the-funny-blurb <vagrantc>lilyp: you better use some clever sha1 collisions so we do not suffer for that today <nikolar>can anyone else try rolling back in a vm or something <lagash>I heard of git-bundle, but I am not sure if Savannah supports it?? <lilyp>vagrantc: well, the thing about time travel is that only a select few people important to the plot will ever be aware of it <zamfofex>mitchell: That conversation about free software inspired me to write this blog post: https://zamfofex.neocities.org/#2023-08-27 (I acknowledge not everyone was into that conversation, but maybe some people might find my thoughts about it interesting in some way.) Make sure to click the ā(read more)ā to read the whole post. <nckx>nikolar: I can roll back a system from 6 August, but any bug would be new so I'm pulling now. Slow VPS though. <lilyp>open source is yet another entry in the long list of capitalism taking up a revolutionary idea and distorting it until it's not <nikolar>Ah yes, capitalism, the world's favourite scapegoat <Guest98>Hello, guix newbie here, how can i switch between GDM and lightDM? <zamfofex>Guest98: You should change it on your config file (usually ā/etc/config.scmā) then run āsudo guix system reconfigure /etc/config.scmā and reboot. <geri>gdm is a part of %desktop-services, so you'll likely need to use `modify-services` on it to rip GDM out and then add lightdm service <rrobin>there is also an example of disabling gdm and swapping with with slim in that link <nckx>nikolar: While I wait, did you customise the root account at all? <nikolar>i may have installed a package or two <nckx>That's a no. I meant customise the user-account entry for root in your system.scm. <nckx>Apparently Guix is expecting a string and encountering a #t. <nckx>I might be home and at a (slightly) faster laptop before it finishes. <geri>gtg, have a good rest of your days, everyone <nckx>'Rest of your days' vaguely ominous but OK. <nckx>As expected, I beat the VPS. Reconfiguring with 26 Aug Guix on laptop. <nckx>Aah, but the laptop has no DNS. Of course. Why not. <nckx>Yup, roll-back's broken. <nckx>Let's try without e9a5eebc785cb843034b38c5c5a6dd10904bdf2a. <nckx>Weird. password-entry-shell is #t, or Guix thinks it is. <nckx>I know, nothing earth-shattering, but I'm back on a 'phone, cut me slacks :-/ <nckx>Yes, that fixes it. I guess I'll revert it, since it's my bed-time. <Guest69>Does someone know why postfix isn't available yet? <jpoiret>nckx: i'll have a look tomorrow, what kind of roll-back? <nckx>Yeah, I know why you ask, & I was surprised too. <nckx>Thanks. The issues link was for you by the way. <Guest69>Thanks.Ā I looked into it but I didn't want to respond if you go anyways <lfam>"make[2]: *** [Makefile:5438: doc/guix-cookbook.fr.info] Error 1"