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<rekado>efraim: I’ve had no success with rust 1.54 on aarch64. The builds keep getting killed at various points.
<efraim>rekado: I wonder if it'd be best to revert b178ca6676cd733c53dc64b2dfeffdb8e168ec3a removing more stuff from the rust-1.54 sources so that we can reuse 1.54 from master
<efraim>aarch64 rust bootstrap is what's holding up the branch at this point
<civodul>mirai: i think it's long gone
<where-are-my-par>I'm trying to reconfigure my system but guix substitute signals an error
<where-are-my-par>it's the same that this one
<practical-friend>"bug#61642: intermittent write_wait_fd error when updating"
<where-are-my-par>try to 'sudo guix system --fallback reconfigure path-to-cfg' but it keeps failing. The hypothesis in some bug reports is that substitute server is failing, so the client signals an error. I think that when using --fallback, it should simple build the package instead.
<civodul>i wonder why goggles-bot gets disconnected eventually
<civodul>it was still running
<civodul>jpoiret: hi! a Hurd update: all is fine, except EOPNOTSUPP in set-translator (hurd-boot.scm) when booting
<civodul>does that ring a bell?
<jpoiret>civodul: if by ring a bell you mean that's exactly what I was stuck on, then yes :)
<civodul>ah alright :-)
<civodul>i checked the partition on Linux and it does support xattrs
<civodul>so something's wrong on the Hurd side of things
<jpoiret>i was worried it might just be an unlucky combination of mach+hurd versions
<jpoiret>or some glibc mismatch
<civodul>Mach doesn't know what a file system is :-)
<jpoiret>although set-translator is a direct syscall?
<civodul>well, "sys" call: it does a file_set_translator PRC
<jpoiret>right, so it doesn't rely on glibc?
<jpoiret>the thing is, it only happens for /servers/socket/1
<jpoiret>not the other translators
<civodul>libc implements setxattr in terms of Hurd RPCs
<jpoiret>yup, was just checking
<civodul>what d'you mean "not the other translators"?
<jpoiret>I think we set up quite a lot of translators in hurd boot
<civodul>for me it stops here because Guile can't run without pflocal
<civodul>ah wait, i'm confused
<civodul>so! commented out /servers/socket/1 from hurd-boot.scm (because in fact it's set up earlier), which leads me to the next problem
<civodul>hanging in /hurd/mach-defpager
<soundmodel>any input as to what kind of role do the other distros at have w.r.t. Guix, which seems official GNU and should therefore be superior?
<practical-friend>"List of Free GNU/Linux Distributions
<civodul>ooh, mach-defpager doesn't appear in "show all tasks"
<civodul>which reminds me of
<practical-friend>"[3.0.9] system* broken on GNU/Hurd"
<civodul>most likely we're just unable to spawn stuff
<jpoiret>civodul: yes
<jpoiret>basically the conclusion I came to was that spawn uses sockets, but /servers/socket/1 isn't up so we can't use them
<jpoiret>oh, sorry didn't see the issue above, maybe it's worse than this >p
<jpoiret>:p *
<jpoiret>it might also be a problem with ext2fs blocking
<attila_lendvai>is there a simple way in guile to append one more positional argument to an args list when keyword args are also present?
<attila_lendvai>...or maybe i should just add it as a keyword arg with an assert, even though it's mandatory.
<minima>hiya, i'm configuring lightdm on a debian - which i have as a thin-layer, on top of which most things are handled at a user-level with guix and guix home
<minima>i ask lightdm to start my window manager (exwm) with a script
<minima>the script launches xss-lock and then emacs
<minima>apparently, looking at the logs, the script gets executed, but it fails as it doesn't find emacs in path (lightdm is installed at the system level and emacs is installed via guix home)
<minima>i assume that, at some point in the start-up script, i need to parse my bash scripts or otherwise make the script aware of the guix profile paths
<minima>am i on the right track, is there a canonical way of doing this?
<minima>well it doesn't have to be ubuntu related... ok, sorry, bad joke
<bjc>window managers/wayland compositors which are started by the greeter need to be installed at the system level, just like the greeter, for them to be found
<_graywolf>Hi :) I've installed Guix on a foreign distro, and it seems to work however I get a hint "hint: Consider installing the `glibc-locales'" and I'm not sure how to get rid of it. The package is installed and environment set: . Any ideas?
<minima>hm oh, that'd be a no-go then, as i'd have a preference for installing emacs via guix... hm
<bjc>there's no connection between system-level configuration and stuff installed at the user level (either via guix home or guix package)
<minima>bjc: thanks; i thought it was just a matter of exporting my user paths in the script so that (guix's) emacs gets found... but i then understand i was wrong
<bjc>you could do it old school and log in via the terminal and startx your way to success. since you'd be doing it after log in, it can use whatever you've installed
<minima>bjc: yeah, that'd be my preferred method, indeed, with the additional plus of having fewer moving parts and dependencies - however, i'm also having problems with the startx approach, which is why i was giving lightdm a chance
<minima>i've been posting something about startx on #emacs
<Lumine>minima: as a lurker in #emacs, I noticed you have dbus-launch in your xinitrc, it's not needed if you're on Guix to launch exwm
<minima>Lumine: oh, super, i'll try again without that then! which i did already, but let me try again, thanks!!
<minima>what would you advise, a simple 'exec emacs'? do you think i need to specify my init.el path? i'd suppose so...
<Lumine>I only have `exec emacs` but I also have a bunch of other things which I'm not entirely sure which affect the actual launch
<Lumine>Since I'm running guix and exwm without a debian overlay
<minima>humble piece of advice: do not touch that "bunch of other things", as apparently is what keeps that together, ahah, no it doesn't work for me with the sole .xinitrc...
<Lumine>But I also am running it with GDM, so it's not just startx with me...
<jpoiret>minima: some DMs/login managers do first run your shell login scripts first
<minima>ah i see, yeah, i've a guix image already that boots into exwm and works like a charm in a VM, i'm looking fwd to switching to a pure guix system but i need to figure out a couple of things re the kernel first
<jpoiret>i really recommend using more minimal DMs as they're more understandable and don't magically do stuff behind your back
<jpoiret>i got gradually sick of GDM just starting a bunch of stuff by itself
<minima>jpoiret: hey, thanks, well i've been trying with a barebone startx as well as with lightdm
<Lumine>As a side note, I afree with jpoiret, I'm planning on ditching GDM
<minima>but both approaches fail, for different reasons
<jpoiret>i recommend greetd
<minima>uh, interesting, thanks!
<jpoiret>wdym the bare startx doesn't work?
<jpoiret>I've also moved to wayland a long time ago so 🙃
<jpoiret>but i guess it's a problem for exwm
<minima>i was discussing the possibility of using a login manager installed at the system level (debian :( ) and then the WM (EXWM) at guix-home level
<minima>is that a setup that you think could work?
<_graywolf>I just don't use DM at all, works fine (albeit required some tweaking)
<jpoiret>if the login manager does run things through your login shell, then yes
<minima>jpoiret: i mean that exwm boots into a blank screen, the process starts but nothing is displayed and i need to kill x
<jpoiret>on guix we often cheat and modify the DMs to run the commands through login shells so that everything is setup properly
<minima>i'd prefer a startx-only approach, but i must be missing some key elements for exwm to become alive
<the_tubular> Can't wait for wayland support
<the_tubular>Wasn't there a talk on emacs conf about it no so long ago ?
<the_tubular>His website seems down ...
<_graywolf>I see that guix has some guix specific env variables (GUIX_LOCPATH, ...). Is there something like GUIX_LANG?
<_graywolf>I need to have different LANG for Guix and for the native programs of the foreign distro :/
<User-48>I'm having a problem with nm-connection-editor. When I try editing a wifi connection it says "GLib-GIO-ERROR **: Settings schema 'org.gnome.nm-applet.eap' is not installed". It was working last week before I updated, but suddenly stopped working now. So I'm not sure if it's a missing package or not.
<_graywolf>Ooooh on foreign distro /gnu/store is *not* RO. That makes things simplier.
<rekado>_graywolf: it should still be RO. We provide a mount service to make it so.
<rekado>_graywolf: you should never modify /gnu/store.
<_graywolf>rekado: Sadly I did not really find another way how to make guix work with my LANG setting except by modifying the store directly :/
<_graywolf>I probably could compile my own locales package, but since this is just a temporary measure until I move to GuixSD, ...
<_graywolf>Also, it's definitely RW, should I bug report it?
<minima>jpoiret: going back to what you were saying re greetd, i suppose i'd need to have it installed at the underlying OS level (as opposed to via guix-home), as it needs to run setuid or as root or something, isn't it?
<minima>oh wait... that's a wayland login manager...
<jpoiret>and no, it can run anything
<minima>oh... ok
<jpoiret>I use agreety, which doesn't use X nor wayland, just runs in a tty
<minima>cool, i might go for that then
<soundmodel>hey, so anyone know what's the point of the other distros at now that there's Guix?
<practical-friend>"List of Free GNU/Linux Distributions
<drakonis>the answer is simple
<drakonis>the majority of them are like the upstream distro but with less packages
<drakonis>guix however is not
<civodul>soundmodel: also, that web page is actually maintained by the FSF, so i'd suggest talking to them
<civodul>we have no control over it
<soundmodel>so do you mean they're more specialized?
<soundmodel>I thought I liked Parabola the best, but then I thought that Guix seems like a reference standard
<drakonis>no, they just have less packages.
<soundmodel>so then I thought why bother with the other ones
<drakonis>a stripped down version of the original thing
<soundmodel>i.e. specialized version?
<soundmodel>I haven't used Guix yet, but what the description sounded like, then even Arch Linux seems pointless
<drakonis>parabola is arch sans nonfree packages
<drakonis>guix on the other hand isnt nix sans nonfree packages
<soundmodel>I think that list might not be very representative
<drakonis>it is not.
<soundmodel>probably they just put whoever wanted to be there
<soundmodel>and who fulfilled their criteria
<soundmodel>since e.g. Dragora looks at most comical
<singpolyma>It's probably exhaustive in terms of why meets criteria
<soundmodel>PureOS is a bit odd, because I read that the company does sell all sorts of things around the OS
<soundmodel>so it sounded more like Ubuntu tbh
<msavoritias>The "high priority list" is also hillarious
<msavoritias>Yeah pureos is basically ubuntu
<singpolyma>msavoritias: you mean because no effort is made to see those things get done?
<soundmodel>trisequel I don't understand how it can fulfill the criteria
<msavoritias>No, because some of the projects are either compani driven or shouldnt even be there
<soundmodel>if it says it's based on Ubuntu
<soundmodel>which clearly does not fulfill the criteria
<msavoritias>But offtopic for this room
<singpolyma>soundmodel: because they remove all packages that are problematic
<singpolyma>To the criteria
<soundmodel>well not necessarily, because I'm asking why should I concern with something else than Guix for "FSF Linux"
<singpolyma>They are all based on something that does not fulfill, except for guix which is based in nothing and is only itself
<singpolyma>soundmodel: I would say don't concern yourself with FSF generally. Make up your own kind what is good based on your own powers of reason :)
<singpolyma>Guix is good IMO, but you can decide yourself
<msavoritias>Yeah true
<apteryx>does elogind support journald?
<civodul>apteryx: hi! journald is part of "core" systemd
<apteryx>I just read 'man 3 sd_journald', and elogind appears to stub these
<apteryx>civodul: hi!
<civodul>oh, interesting
<apteryx>it offers systemd-compatible headers (which includes journald.h)
<apteryx>man $(guix build elogind)/share/man/man3/sd_journal.3.gz
<jlicht>hey guix!
<soundmodel>@singpolyma well my issue was to find a distro that's most public domain
<soundmodel>because I'm tired of the issues of vendor lock-in
<soundmodel>Ubuntuists think they're free
<apteryx>soundmodel: depends what you want to free yourself from, but any FSDG-endorsed distribution goes a long way in protecting your software freedoms
<apteryx>Guix may also be more hackable, after you've spent some time learning Guile
<soundmodel>I also liked that Guix seemed to answer my question about "app dev language of Linux"
<soundmodel>because no other distro seems to make a conscious choice about good app languages
<soundmodel>even though I've seen some individual projects switch away from Guile
<apteryx>oh; any examples? I'm curious
<soundmodel>IIRC Zrythm is trying to remove Guile in favor of Python
<apteryx>interesting... sad to see the divestment of Zrythm from Guix/Guile. I wonder what went wrong for them.
<soundmodel>I think they just want more appeal
<practical-friend>"zrythm/overview.rst at master · zrythm/zrythm · GitHub"
<drakonis>doesnt seem to have gone anywhere yet?
<soundmodel>but it's evident that Python is not an app language
<soundmodel>and Java and C# are proprietary
<soundmodel>so it's nice that Guix seemed to enforce some idea about userland languages
<drakonis>where did you read that by the way?
<soundmodel> ?
<practical-friend>"GNU Guix transactional package manager and distribution — GNU Guix"
<soundmodel>the typical Linux gives you only C API I think
<drakonis>i meant zrythm moving to python
<drakonis>it looks like they're going the other way?
<soundmodel>IIRC I heard it from their chat
<soundmodel>I think the issue was also that CPython might be faster
<apteryx>that'd be surprising
<drakonis>when was this by the way?
<drakonis>the changelogs for zrythm dont seem to point towards anything
<apteryx>if I recall benchmarks correctly, Python is often 30x slower than C, while Schemes were typically 3-10x slower than C
<soundmodel>the discussion revolved around the idea that if one wanted to write a DAW in C
<apteryx>ah, there's this:
<practical-friend>"~alextee/zrythm-feature#573: lua scripting instead of guile
<drakonis>they already have python scripting btw
<soundmodel>then CPython gives Python bindings for free
<soundmodel>and every other app is also going around the lua, python decision tree
<soundmodel>but that's not the main point
<soundmodel>the point was that I've thought that the OS vendor should dictate the userland more
<apteryx>I don't think we're there (yet?)
<soundmodel>but this issue has been discussed earlier w.r.t. GNOME
<soundmodel>I just personally thought that what Apple and Microsoft did with Objective-C and C# is useful
<soundmodel>and then I haven't found that with Linuxes
<soundmodel>but as it says on Wikipedia: "The core idea of Guile Scheme is that "the developer implements critical algorithms and data structures in C or C++ and exports the functions and types for use by interpreted code.", so it's like Java, but without the dumb parts
<civodul>soundmodel: that *was* the core idea of Guile, before 2.0
<soundmodel>but yes, it's not in the TIOBE index
<drakonis>yes, but, why?
<soundmodel>because barely no-one knows it exists
<soundmodel>because it's not in popular game engines or something
<janneke>"if something has existed for a very long time, and is not popular, it must be good"
<civodul>we're the avant-garde!
<soundmodel>a lot of people just seem to look at what's offered
<soundmodel>which is again an argument in favor of the os vendor enforcing good practices
<soundmodel>instead of letting people try if Mono is good for Linux
<soundmodel>yes, I don't understand why one needs to bother with SWIG or something based on
<TristanCottam[m]>Hi everyone! I'm trying to set up certbot on Guix System. I'm unable to successfully obtain an SSL certificate, but I'm unsure how to troubleshoot.
<TristanCottam[m]>Any guidance would be much appreciated!
<mirai>civodul: what are the concerns described in <> ? Do the concerns also apply to the approach in <>?
<practical-friend>"activation.scm\build\gnu - guix.git - GNU Guix and GNU Guix System"
<practical-friend>"audio.scm\services\gnu - guix.git - GNU Guix and GNU Guix System"
<mirai>TristanCottam[m]: did you manually run the renew certificates script
<TristanCottam[m]>No, what I read from gnu/services/certbot made it look like it happened automatically twice a day randomly during the 1st and 13th hours
<mirai>you need to run it once manually I think
<TristanCottam[m]> * No, what I read from gnu/services/certbot made it look like it happened automatically twice a day at a random minute in the 1st and 13th hours
<mirai>afterwards it should work
<TristanCottam[m]>What command should I run?
<mirai> /var/lib/certbot/renew-certificates
<TristanCottam[m]>I did find it strange that it wouldn't do the check on activation
<TristanCottam[m]>I'll give it a try
<TristanCottam[m]>I encountered a new error, but it seems to be it!
<TristanCottam[m]>Just need to set up the relevant domains
<TristanCottam[m]>Thanks! Also, any idea why this isn't run automatically on activation?
<mirai>in part, a problem that I understand as "chicken and the egg problem"
<mirai>the certbot in guix is coupled with nginx
<mirai>so you can see where the problem starts when you need the certificates for nginx to start
<civodul>mirai: "time-of-check-to-time-of-use" race: between the verify-not-symbolic and mkdir-p calls, or between mkdir-p and chown, an attacker might be able to change things and invalidate the conclusion that was drawn
<mirai>and certbot needs nginx to request a cert
<civodul>with the *at family of function, you can make sure you operate on the same file that you checked
<mirai>civodul: but why the symlink restriction?
<TristanCottam[m]>How exactly can I fix this error?... (full message at <>)
<civodul>mirai: OWNER is not necessarily root, and OWNER could install a symlink pointing to a root-owned file
<mirai>civodul: oh, I have the mkdir-p and chown pattern there, but is it a problem if these are performed within a service constructor? It's running as root (or the shepherd owner) I think
<mirai>right, that would be bad indeed
<unmatched-paren>afternoon guix :)
<mirai>TristanCottam[m]: either you have to configure nginx to hold off using a TLS cert it doesn't have yet, or its firewall issues
<TristanCottam[m]>I managed getting SSL certificates through a Docker container, so the firewall seems to be good. How can I configure NGINX appropriately?
<mirai>is it already configured to use SSL certificates?
<TristanCottam[m]>It isn't configured for anything yet :/
<TristanCottam[m]>I didn't get from the manual that I had to manually set it up first
<civodul>rekado: hi! could SELinux prevent guix-daemon from remounting /gnu/store read-write? (it gets EACCES in its MS_REMOUNT|MS_BIND call)
<civodul>that makes gnu-store.mount unusable AFAICS
<mirai>so it turns out nginx service hardcodes info error log
<mirai>info level
<mirai>for the error log
<mirai>must be fantastic for flash endurance
<pharcosyle>hey folks, I'm trying to update Guix core packages and GCC (to 12), anyone know anything about that?
<pharcosyle>atm I'm having an issue with sed-mesboot and a couple of other bits
<apteryx>cbaines: would you know if I missed a step with it seems we won't have the QA's badge
<practical-friend>"Issue 62196 Guix Quality Assurance"
<apteryx>mirai: oh, is this why the berlin nginx logs grow into multi-TiB over a couple months?
<mirai>must be
<mirai>I'm sending the patch now
<mirai>am finishing the commit msg
<uniavix>When I do guix system reconfigure /etc/config.scm I get an error message saying to herd restart the service and herd status shows that term-console is stopped but I'm unable to start it...
<mirai>I don't know if it makes sense to mark severity as high
<mirai>(whats the criteria for severity levels anyways)
<mirai>but I'd consider it one since: 1. clowns could just dos it with garbage requests
<mirai>2. it's grinding my flash drives down
<mirai>uniavix: normal, term console is only relevant if you configured a kernel console=… parameter
<uniavix>mirai: can I remove the service?
<mirai>I think so
<podiki[m]>does our imagemagick not support webp?
<mirai>🤦 I forgot to mention that the nginx change is testable with check-system TESTS=nginx
<podiki[m]>hrm or does imagemagick need to be patched, e.g. including libwebp in the profile/shell doesn't help, but it should delegate to the libwebp utilities
<rekado>civodul: it’s possible. Someone with an SELinux system could tell us what permission needs to be declared, then we could update the policy.
<civodul>rekado: ok, thanks; i filed it at
<practical-friend>"guix-daemon fails on SELinux/systemd distros"
<civodul>for 1.4.0, it looks like we might need to just disable gnu-store.mount
<mirai>under what cases are the severity tags appropriate to be set?
<lilyp>when you find an acropalypse, you can set a higher severity :)
<mirai>I didn't find anything with that kind of fame, but I found a SSD cruncher and/or “fill your disks by logging garbage” with #62490
<practical-friend>"[PATCH] services: nginx: Make logging level configurable."
<mirai>my 28d almost LAN traffic only nginx instance generated: 11G+ error log, ~700M in regular logs
<mirai>can't imagine what it must be for popular instances
<lfam>Good reason to use a compressed filesystem
<mirai>I didn't tag the issue above but disk crunching doesn't sound too good
<mirai>though it's not “heartbleed” kinds of severe
<apteryx>the TLS cert of appears to be expired
<practical-friend>Exception: #<&compound-exception components: (#<&error> #<&origin origin: invalid-certificate> #<&message message: #<x509-certificate 7f7d98cb5d20>> #<&irritants irritants: ""> #<&exception-with-kind-and-args kind: tls-certificate-error args: (invalid-certificate #<x509-certificate 7f7d98cb5d20> "" (#<gnutls-certificate-status-enum expired> #<gnutls-certificate-status-enum invalid>))>)> https:
<apteryx>seems to be a common pain point
<apteryx>is our letsencrypt tooling flawed?
<civodul>yes, i don't know why the "certbot renew" mcron job didn't run
<minima>oh i thought it was just me :) the number of times i need to reload nginx manually!
<civodul>we're a whole bunch of people ending up manually restarting nginx!
<civodul>it's ridiculous
<minima>ahah :)
<civodul>a colleague of mine would email me every 4 (or 6?) months to tell me my cert has expired
<civodul>every time i think i've fixed it for good
<civodul>but no, i get that email again
<podiki[m]>was just about to ask about tex packages when I remembered the new manual section added (last year? recent)....yay
<lfam>So, what fails is the hook that reloads nginx?
<podiki[m]>ACTION goes off to build a list of what's needed for a fancy cv
<apteryx>civodul: 2023-03-24 00:33:54 127768 /gnu/store/jnp0166xw62dafd2zgxdmvjb6yq8ak32-certbot-1.28.0/bin/certbot renew --webroot --webroot-path /var/www: failed after 234.635s with: (misc-error #f unclean exit status ~S (1) #f)
<apteryx>c.f. /var/log/mcron.log (which seems to be getting rather large)
<apteryx>seems it got some 404 (unauthorized) from Domain:
<civodul>maybe it's those --webroot* options that are no longer valid in our setup
<apteryx>I'll add an item to bug-guix with [berlin] in it to keep it tracked
<podiki[m]>has anyone tried the texlive importer recently?
<practical-friend>"debian Pastezone"
<euandreh>podiki[m]: that error looks like you haven't installed svn
<euandreh>I've used the texlive importer some time ago, and it indeed used svn to download some tex code
<podiki[m]>ah, correcto euandreh!
<podiki[m]>that is surprising to me, would expect an importer to work without adding dependencies
<podiki[m]>thanks that works; importer does "public-domain" for license and a (version #f), but after fixing that package works (to build at least)
<civodul>ACTION fell deep into the posix_spawn quagmire