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<oriansj>omlet[m]: I believe the Stallman tradition is Grav-Mass
<omlet[m]>oriansj: My english is vad, you can explicate?
<oriansj>an alternate tradition to Christmas on the same day as Christmas
<oriansj>where the idea is food, family and educational activities for kids
<omlet[m]>Right, grav os the reason
<omlet[m]>But i think gnutal in portuguese its better
<omlet[m]>In spanosh i think no too
<omlet[m]>3 option in portuguese
<ConvolutedSquare>Partitioned all drives, set up ext4 filesystems on them, and initialized Guix on 3, but the 2 drives that show up on GRUB don't even have any partitions detected :(
<isf>hello, why guix have mate 1.24? and not a newer version?
<isf>and other question, if flatpak is a nonfree thirdparty repository, why is in the GNU guix system?
<isf>someone lose my question?
<AwesomeAdam54321>isf: No, I understand the questions and will answer them
<AwesomeAdam54321>isf: Guix doesn't have a newer mate than 1.24.1 because no one's sent a patch to update it yet
<isf>and about the nonfree repository AwesomeAdam54321?
<AwesomeAdam54321>Flatpak was packaged in Guix with the intention that people can run libre flatpaks
<AwesomeAdam54321>if there are any freedom issues you should report it to the guix bug tracker
<isf>imagine you do the same with snaps
<isf>technically are little different, and in freedom issues, are same both distribute nonfree software a real problem for a free distro
<isf>well, maybe a guix user can do it for me, sure here are people who read the GNU FSDG
<isf>im safe of that issue in Trisquel, happy hacking
<AwesomeAdam54321>isf: imagine you do the same with snaps <- No, but because of an unrelated reason that snap can't build without systemd
<AwesomeAdam54321>isf: Maybe I can give it a try and fix it
<isf>I believe are technically very hard make available only free software to install from flatpak
<AwesomeAdam54321>Yes, that should be patched in Guix and the patches sent to the flatpak developers
<AwesomeAdam54321>If there are no free software only flatpak repos, I think flatpak should be removed
<isf>I believe trisquel users try the same
<isf>but flatpak is a nonfree repository
<AwesomeAdam54321>is there a free repository you know about?
<isf>so, they dont go to remove their nonfree programs
<isf>the only free software thirdparty repository I know is guix
<isf>thats the reason trisquel have it
<AwesomeAdam54321>There's some info here about this issue here, the flatpak developers need someone to help with this issue: (viewable without javascript on eww)
<AwesomeAdam54321>s/on/, tested on
<isf>wait a sec, trisquel have flatpak too in their repos, the 1.0.10 version I dont know how they have it and dont make it against the GNU FSDG
<isf>i got ask there
<oriansj>well flatpak itself is free software
<oriansj>just like gnash
<oriansj>but just like gnash, it allows non-free software to run on your machine
<singpolyma>Depending how you define "software" in the case of gnash, which mostly "runs" animated pictures
<AwesomeAdam54321>singpolyma: Maybe a fun nickname would be Animated
<AwesomeAdam54321>*Animated Picture Executor, but APE was already taken by Plan 9
<singpolyma>And by actually portable executable
<Kolev>Having difficulty using rde. :(
<AwesomeAdam54321>Kolev: Guix Home has already been merged for a while now, is there anything that rde has that it doesn't?
<Kolev>AwesomeAdam54321: Preconfigured Sway awesomeness.
<lechner>sneek: later tell rekado: Hi, Guile-IRC is great, and the new bot is coming soon. By the way, the has a stale link now Github issues were not enabled, so I posted here. Thanks for maintaining this great package!
<sneek>Got it.
<lechner>sneek / botsnack
<Kolev>Hm. Evolution req. systemd.
<AwesomeAdam54321>Kolev: For a new version?
<Kolev>AwesomeAdam54321: Evolution mentioned needing a .service file.
<efraim>sneek: later tell civodul the julia packages did go through qa.guix,
<efraim>sneek: botsnack
<rekado>lechner: thanks, I updated the README.
<sneek>rekado, you have 1 message!
<sneek>rekado, lechner says: Hi, Guile-IRC is great, and the new bot is coming soon. By the way, the has a stale link now Github issues were not enabled, so I posted here. Thanks for maintaining this great package!
<lembrun[m]>civodul: I Isolated the reasons of the hangs I'm getting at shutdown/reboot... (full message at <>)
<lembrun[m]> * civodul: I Isolated the reasons of the hangs I'm getting at shutdown/reboot... (full message at <>)
<lembrun[m]> * civodul: I Isolated the reasons of the hangs I'm getting at shutdown/reboot... (full message at <>)
<AwesomeAdam54321>isf: Has there been a reply yet by the people in #trisquel?
<VesselWave>Hello! How to delete multiple line from file? has ~10 lines that build subproject. How do I deltete them using snippet or modify-phases?
<AwesomeAdam54321>VesselWave: You can use substitute* for that, for example: (substitute* "path/to/file" (("subproject(.*") ""))
<AwesomeAdam54321>So deleting means replacing it with nothing
<AwesomeAdam54321>You can look in more detail in the "Build Utilities" section of the manual
<VesselWave>AwesomeAdam54321: Thanks, I know about substitute, but how do I select lines 40-51 here:
<omlet[m]><VesselWave> "AwesomeAdam54321: Thanks, I know..." <- Hyperland is available in guix?
<guix_noob>Hey Guix, Im trying to use Emacs package installed with Guix but can't use it for the moment.. Do I need some extra steps aside from setting the EMACSLOADPATH variable, and the following in my init.el: (add-to-list 'load-path "~/.guix-profile/share/emacs/site-lisp")
<nckx>VesselWave: I'd either use a patch for that, or add an if false...endif around those lines with substitute*.
<VesselWave>omlet[m]: I am trying to make a package definition for it
<VesselWave>nckx: How do I make a patch?
<nckx>git checkout, edit the file, git commit -a, write a nice commit message explaining the change (but needn't follow the Guix changelog format), git format-patch -1, copy 0001-your-patch to gnu/packages/patches, add it to gnu/, and add it to your package source field's patches field with search-patches.
<nckx>It's slightly less work than it sounds, also slightly less fun than writing an insane regexp :-)
<VesselWave>nckx: Thank you!
<nckx>I don't remember doing anything odd to get emacs packages to work, guix_noob, but I'll check. Is this a Guix System?
<nckx>I know those.
<nckx>guix_noob: So I do have (add-to-list 'load-path "/home/nckx/.guix-profile/share/emacs/site-lisp") (guix-emacs-autoload-packages). I also have emacs-use-package installed, and use-package everything.
<guix_noob>thx for your reply nckx!
<guix_noob>nah I'm using guix on top of Ubuntu 20.04.5 LTS
<guix_noob>I don't think I can use any package I installed with guix for now :/
<guix_noob>(on emacs)
<nckx>I'm positive that it's possible, but I can't give you exact instructions, sorry.
<guix_noob>no worries, thanks for the help
<nckx>There's also the help-guix at gnu dot org mailing list. For obvious reasons, this channel is extremely calm this week :)
<guix_noob>yeah I figured haha, maybe I should try the calm mode too for this week
<guix_noob>Happy XMas everyone!
<nckx>You too!
<mekeor[m]>oriansj: i'm glad it was useful to you. do you agree that it'd be nice to be able to run thinkfan as non-root. i did not try yet, but afaik that would be possible through the setuid-programs field of the operating-system
<nckx>Does thinkfan support that? I don't find any mention of it.
<nckx>(In the source & a quick Web search.)
<raghavgururajan>Hello Guix!
<raghavgururajan>Congrats to the community, for 1.4.0 release! :-D
<pjalsDanielv[m]>i don't really get versioning in a distro like guix, but congrats!
<mekeor[m]>nckx: oh, i didn't know that setuid has to be supported by the respective application. thanks :)
<oriansj>mekeor[m]: well, I am of the perspective is thinkfan just needs to be configured correctly once and left to run quietly in the background.
<oriansj>if I wanted to constantly tweak my fans, I'd be doing echo 'level 7' | sudo sponge /proc/acpi/ibm/fan
<oriansj>but having a function written and a key bound to increase the fan speed and another key bound to decrease fan speed
<ecbrown>wondering if someone could comment on this supposition: emacs borg's features are essentially replicated by guix with a channel per emacs package
<ecbrown>(or perhaps an inferior file?)
<axet>substitute: updating substitutes from ''... 0.0%
<axet>no ping as well
<Kolev>How do I connect to WiFi?
<mekeor[m]>raghavgururajan: hey! do you use a thinkpad x200-tablet with guix system, including a functioning wacom touchscreen? if so, could you share the relevant config?
<ecbrown>Kolev: wifi is a disaster in gnu linux. is your wifi card supported by libre drivers?
<raghavgururajan>mekeor[m]: Yep! Hang on.
<ecbrown>Kolev: (the inevitable answer is for you to purchase a USB wifi dongle that works with libre linux kernel)
<raghavgururajan>mekeor[m]: Here,
<Kolev>ecbrown: wifi works i just dont know how to connect to wifi from the cmd line
<raghavgururajan>Almost forgot. Happy Festivus, everyone!
<raghavgururajan>ACTION looks for festivus pole
<nckx>ecbrown: There are internal options too, you know ;-)
<raghavgururajan>mekeor[m]: Regarding ThinkFan, I use this,
<nckx>ecbrown: Is it a USB device? If so, it should be zeroconf (disclaimer: I use an X230T, not 200).
<nckx>Kolev: Are you using NetworkManager?
<ecbrown>from the command line i would try to configure wpa supplicant
<Kolev>nckx: Nevermind. I figured it out. Looked in the manual installation guide.
<lechner>Hi, Network manager should have everything you need but is complicated. Will you please post the output of lsusb and lspci?
<Kolev>I have internet now. :)
<Kolev>Everything's good.
<nckx>It's really not complicated. Nor is w-s, once you memorise a two-key configuration.
<pret7>heya ppl, I'm trying to debug package configurations in the repl, and I'm running into some weird issues, I've got it reduced to this case:
<pret7>(git-fetch myref 'sha-256 "test")
<pret7>gives this error
<lechner>i was thinking about the privacy options for IPv6
<pret7>ice-9/boot-9.scm:1685:16: In procedure raise-exception:
<pret7>In procedure git-reference-recursive?: Wrong type argument: #<<git-reference> url: "" commit: "45ae6890f6619286f5679f88c094c88127b54c4a" recursive?: #f>
<pret7>(where my-ref is a git-reference)
<pret7>I don't understand this wrong type argument error
<nckx>lechner: No disagreement that you can *make* it complicated, absolutely.
<pret7>(git-fetch) says it takes a ref, so there shouldn't be an issue, right? what could be causing this? I see this even when I copy known good stuff from existing package defs
<pret7>anyone seen this before? I feel like I'm doing something silly, but not sure...
<nckx>So you're debugging a package(?); could you share that?
<pret7>one sec
<Kolev>I removed GDM from my system declaration, but GDM still shows on boot.
<pret7>I think i've messed up the comments on the version definition,
<pret7>but that's not the issue
<lechner>Kolev / did you reconfigure?
<Kolev>I reconfigured from /home/caleb/bender.scm but did not cp it to /etc/config.scm.
<nckx>pret7: I'm not at a PC, but that *looks* OK... What's the error that gives you?
<pret7>I just can't seem to ,lower the package in the repl
<lechner>Kolev / that should be enough. will you share the config?
<pret7>In procedure git-reference-recursive?: Wrong type argument: #<<git-reference> url: "" commit: "45ae6890f6619286f5679f88c094c88127b54c4a" recursive?: #f>
<pret7>that's the error
<pret7>and I messed around and I can reproduce it just calling git-fetch too
<Kolev>lechner: Config:
<pret7>I've been trying to put the repl into `step` mode to see if I can figure out where this Wrong type stuff comes in, but I can't find anyway to do that easily.
<nckx>pret7: In your package, you're using version in git-version but it's not defined. Once I fix that, it checks out fine for me.
<nckx>(The build fails, but it fetches the source.)
<lechner>Kolev / you also rebooted?
<nckx>I can't really repl gud on this 'phone.
<pret7>@nckx yea it works *outside* the repl
<pret7>but I really hate jumping between the shell and the repl
<nckx>pret7: I don't really understand why you're calling git-fetch directly in the repl.
<pret7>I'm not! I'm calling `,lower guile-scheme-json-rpc`
<pret7>If I understand correctly that should turn the package into a derivation right?
<pret7>but it errors out with tat git-reference-recursive error
<pret7>and I managed to reproduce that with just git-fetch
<pret7>nckx: do you know how to step through an expr in the repl? I'm looking for like ,step-through EXPR and then being able to step through function calls
<pret7>or I guess the equivalent of `debugger` in js
<nckx>OK, pasting stuff into a repl here is intolerable suffering. I tried. But it keeps introducing syntax errors.
<nckx>All I know about JS 'debugger' is that I had to disable it in Firefox because it's abused by Websites to detect tampering. Dunno what Guile's equivalent is.
<pret7>or just like a (break!) somewhere in an expression
<pret7>this apparently is in guile 1.8
<pret7>Idk how to do it in 3
<pret7>I'm a bit confused with the whole trap stuff
<pret7>and thanks for trying :), I'm going to be afk for a few hours, but I'll get back to figuring this out in the eve :D
<oriansj>raghavgururajan: you don't actually need %default-kernel-arguments as all but "quiet" are related to macbook bugs
<pret7>I'll send something to the mailing list in the eve if I still can't figure it out
<oriansj>as you can see here:
<Kolev>lechner: When I reboot, does it read /etc/config.scm or the last file I reconfigured from?
<lechner>Kolev / no. the reconfiguration sets up your system in other ways, such as the grub menu and a variety of symbolic links and environment variables
<Kolev>lechner: I did reconfigure from /home/caleb/confic.scm.
<Kolev>But when I rebooted, GDM was there.
<oriansj>Kolev: well what did you configure in your services block?
<lechner>it's posted above
<lechner>Kolev / you did sudo guix system reconfigure /home/caleb/bender.scm followed by a reboot?
<Kolev>lechner: Yes.
<lechner>Kolev / i thought removing GDM that way worked, but i do not use %desktop-services personally
<oriansj>Kolev: you don't need to include %desktop-services at all:
<lechner>sneek / later ask rekado: Hi, does Mumi offer a way to discover the GraphQL schema? Thanks!
<sneek>Will do.
<lechner>sneek / botsnack
<raghavgururajan>oriansj: I see. Thanks!
<raghavgururajan>Any one using a modified+working version of `auto-login-to-tty` procedure?
<raghavgururajan>IIRC, the current one is broken and couldn't find the cause.
<oriansj>raghavgururajan: well I am using an autologin in my kodi configuration
<raghavgururajan>oriansj: I see. I was referring to the one without the use of login-manager.
<oriansj>raghavgururajan: ah, if I would to guess I would think something like this would work: (mingetty-service (mingetty-configuration (tty "tty1") (auto-login "username")))
<raghavgururajan>Thanks! I'll try.
<nckx>ecbrown: Perhaps you need to add xf86-input-wacom to your xorg modules.
<zacchae[m]>Anyone else tried to get user home environments to start on boot? I tried doing it with a tmux in a custom shepherd, but tmux doesn't like to run as a foreground daemon...
<zacchae[m]>different than auto-login. I don't want a tty/xorg to unlock
<zacchae[m]>(tmux complains "stdin is not a terminal")
<jgart[m]>haugh haugh haugh merry guixmas and a happy gnu year!
<zacchae[m]>Haha. Beautiful
<nckx>Should be merged by June.
<nckx>(I'd merge it right away if I responsibly could.)
<mekeor[m]>raghavgururajan: so you dont use xf86-input-wacom but rather use -libinput. does xsetwacom work for you? can you configure the buttons the pen/tablet?
<Kolev>I keep losing connection when I use raw wpa_supplicant.
<zacchae[m]>Alright, I got it working. lmk if anyone wants details
<nckx>zacchae[m]: Such mini-howtos are always welcome on help-guix, so it's archived for the ages.
<zacchae[m]>So I should summarize and send an email to
<Kolev>How do I configure Wi-Fi? (configure-wpa-supplicant (config-file "/home/caleb/wpa_supplicant.conf")) ?
<nckx>zacchae[m]: If you're feeling like helping your fellow (future) comrades, yes :-)
<zacchae[m]>Kolev: Is there a reason you aren't using NetworkManager?
<Kolev>zacchae[m]: I'm fine using that, but how do I use it from the command line?
<nckx>Kolev: Not that syntax, but yes. Search for wpa-supplicant-service-type in the manual.
<zacchae[m]>Kolev: nmtui is great, but won't work for WPA2 enterprise. Otherwise, use nmcli
<zacchae[m]>^nmtui and nmcli are provided by networkmanager
<nckx>Oh, interesting. I recently failed to connect to WPAE but it would not have occurred to me that it was the *UI*, not the whole package.
<oriansj>the simplest wifi I know of for Linux is iwd, the only downside is there isn't a proper shepherd service in the main guix collection yet
<nckx>So nmcli can do more?
<nckx>Yes, we know :-p
<oriansj>but if you just manually start iwd & as root and configure as a user with iwctl, you shouldn't have any real problems
<oriansj>but someone did write one:
<oriansj>it is just a matter of time before a proper iwd service will be guix (basically once someone builds upon that work and gets it into the guix mainline)
<oriansj>^be^be in^
<jgart[m]>oriansj: I would just ask krevedkokun if they are willing to upstream it
<oriansj>jgart[m]: well you can reply here and let them know:
<nckx>Let's not, it's not suitable as is. RDE uses its own (IMO odd) idioms.
<nckx>I mean, if they're willing to rewrite it as part of the process, great.
<jgart[m]>ya with rewrite for upstream
<jgart[m]>nckx: what idioms do you find odd in rde? the features or something else?
<Kolev>rde lacks docs :(
<jgart[m]>is anyone working on updating python-sphinx in staging?
<nckx>Not objectively odd, sorry if came over too strong. But odd if the RDE alist style were to be added as-is to Guix, which prefers records. Consistency is its own reward.
<jgart[m]>I'd be curious where goops would fit in in guix development
<nckx><rde lacks docs> Yay Guix lacks them slightly less. \o/
<jgart[m]>So far I've seen it used in shepherd's own source code
<jgart[m]>And in the druix channel
<nckx>jgart[m]: Not. At all. Vetoed, by emperor civodul.
<nckx>TIL druix.
<jgart[m]>cool channel
<jgart[m]>they're using goops
<pjalsDanielv[m]>> Please do NOT promote this repository on any official Guix communication channels, such as their mailing lists or IRC channel
<jgart[m]>drewc is also a veteran common lisper and gerbil scheme hacker
<jgart[m]>We have some of drewc's common lisp libraries packaged in upstream
<jgart[m]>pjals (Daniel) ~v: Ooops missed that
<nckx>Eh, you did nothing wrong.
<pjalsDanielv[m]>iirc gnu mailing lists and irc channels have a strict policy about discussing nonfree stuff
<jgart[m]>I repent
<jgart[m]>nckx: now I did nothing wrong
<jgart[m]>You just have to bleep it out
<nckx>You're still banned, of course.
<jgart[m]>non**** instead of you know
<nckx>Ugh. Don't get me started on the 'forbidden channel' hyperbole please :-)
<Kolev>nmtui didn't quite work, so I rebooted into GNOME system.
<Kolev>I have no use for nonfree software.
<pjalsDanielv[m]>good :D
<Kolev>Except my local bank's web app sometimes.
<jgart[m]>I think it's good that we have that policy. I like the feeling of entering #guix on Libera. It makes me feels like I'm in a holy tempel of GNU discipline
<jgart[m]>Emacs-centric pun not intended
<Kolev>Still trying to get RDE to work.
<nckx>jgart[m]: Sure, that's kind of the point of the policy. It's making a huge song & dance about THE FORBIDEN CHANEL that bugs me. Anyway.
<nckx>Now I'm dancing, so I'll stop.
<jgart[m]>well it looks like there is more than one forbidden channel
<pjalsDanielv[m]>please stop talking about forbidden channels
<pjalsDanielv[m]>i don't think this is the poiint of the policy
<jgart[m]>pjals (Daniel) ~v: sorry
<lechner>mentioning them should be allowed, just like a reference to Microshaft. I think promoting it crosses the line
<omlet[m]>Have issue for add river window manager?
<nckx>Please don't open issues to request new packages. Those are not bugs. There's for that.
<jgart[m]>omlet: can you unpack that a bit more?
<pjalsDanielv[m]>how do i specify a directory of patches or multiple patches for guix build --with-patch?
<lechner>by the way, the new bot is working #58658
<led-lightbulb>~lechner: Open issue )Dhg( "[PATCH staging] gnu: go-golang-org-x-net: Update to 0.1.0." from Felix Lechner
<pjalsDanielv[m]>(i'm too lazy to package
<jgart[m]>There's also this guixrus wishlist which has 1,116 packages on it:
<nckx>lechner: Fancy.
<jgart[m]>Merry Guixmas
<lechner>i am particularly proud of my Babylonian bug references )Dhg(
<led-lightbulb>~lechner: Open issue )Dhg( "[PATCH staging] gnu: go-golang-org-x-net: Update to 0.1.0." from Felix Lechner
<jgart[m]>I'm going to start using emacs-chatgpt-mode for Guix packaging
<nckx>The )( is the part I hate, so balance is restored.
<lechner>they look like horns!
<nckx> they?
<jgart[m]>If life throws you an unmatched-paren just close it.
<jgart[m]>oops I accidentally pinged unmatched-paren
<jgart[m]>oops I did it again
<nckx>Going negative with )( might overflow the universe.
<jgart[m]>How can I demonstrate the mapping between a bag and a derivation?
<jgart[m]>What UML diagram should I use?
<lechner>nckx / bugs should make you mad
<jgart[m]>bags make me mad
<nckx>That's my secret, doc. I'm always mad.
<jgart[m]>trying to understand them in context of everything else
<lechner>i am open to suggestions. we would never use more than four digits. it's base 60
<nckx>I'll bite. Are there no acceptable extra 4 characters, anywhere?
<lechner>there is more. the least significant digit comes first
<nckx>You absolute scamp.
<jgart[m]>nckx: is your substitute server running on Guix System or a foreign distro?
<lechner>i told you
<jgart[m]>nckx: I got it in my dots:
<nckx>jgart[m]: Guix System, but it's taking Guixmas off. It's currently hard-coded serving 404s because the back-end is down & I'm not in town to fix it.
<nckx>ACTION afk.
<nckx>jgart[m]: Awesome though! I'll get it back up ASAP.
<jgart[m]>nckx: Do you accept donations for
<jgart[m]>How much do you pay for that server?
<jgart[m]>Do you only use it for serving substitutes or something else?
<jgart[m]>s/else/else also
<oriansj>jgart[m]: well servers are pretty cheap these days and if one has a local colo, one can do a 1U for under $50/month
<jgart[m]>I need something for under $5/month
<oriansj>jgart[m]: well how much storage and compute do you need?
<jgart[m]>I just want to serve subs for guixrus
<oriansj>how does free sound?
<lechner>that's nice
<oriansj>well I was going to rent a 1U space and put a couple TB server in about a month; so I guess I could spare a TB of storage and half the bandwidth (that I definitely am not going to use) for something productive.
<oriansj>in which case it could be a build server for any guix channel which wants one
<jgart[m]>oriansj: If you'd like to serve subs for guixrus that would be awesome and much appreciated. We can list your sub server in the README:
<jgart[m]>Feel free to send a patch with the sub server info in the README to
<jgart[m]>Or just let me know and I can add it
<jgart[m]>However you prefer
<oriansj>just need to figure out the install procedure, work out a good guix configuration and then write up documentation so that other people can dupicate my results without having to duplicate my work.
<jgart[m]>That would be great!
<jgart[m]>If you write that doc maybe add it to the cookbook
<oriansj>right now, I have a minimal setup procedure for guix:
<jgart[m]>that setup script looks handy
<jgart[m]>do you use it as a script or just docs?
<oriansj>but I figure setting up a substitute server might require additional steps (such as disabling the downloading of substitutes and work arounds for known broken guix bootstrap packages)
<oriansj>jgart[m]: both actually
<jgart[m]>We setup a substitute server once before with a donotshake but we didn't document the process unfortunately
<jgart[m]>we even had an offload server set up
<oriansj>everything I create is designed to be helpful to others and documentation is kind of essential to ensuring others to make use of what I create
<jgart[m]>I haven't had time or the motivation to work on that again
<oriansj>fair enough
<jgart[m]>ya docs are so important
<jgart[m]>and yet neglected many times
<jgart[m]>I think Guix needs more concept docs
<oriansj>well, I know the hardest part of writing docs is getting questions from the perspective of someone new and unfamiliar with your work. It is the biggest problem in my bootstrapping work; just getting people to ask questions and for clarifications about things that are not immediately obvious.
<jgart[m]>For example there is no conceptual explanation for the define-monad macro
<jgart[m]>You just have to read the code and piece it all together
<jgart[m]>I think that there is nothing in Guix that should be a low level detail not worthy of documentation.
<oriansj>well unfortunately many think of the code as documentation; which unless guix macros come naturally to you, couldn't be farther from the case.
<jgart[m]>I want to understand 100% of Guix conceptually down to the nix-daemon. I want it all to be documented, including the low level implementation details ;()
<oriansj>I wish the building of one's guix config was the process of learning guix
<oriansj>no more defaults
<oriansj>just you explicitly adding things to your system and the documentation telling you reasons why you might want or need X
<jgart[m]>I can't necessarily guess what the original high level intentions were in a low level decision just from reading the code. If I do finally understand it it will have taken me numerous years to gather all that knowledge because of the lack of domain knowledge and conceptual understanding at the low level
<oriansj>well in theory guix should have very little domain knowledge outside of the bits themselves
<pinoaffe>by default, guix's certbot services tries to authenticate its certificates twice a day - Is there a way to manually make it authenticate 'm?
<jgart[m]>Even Guix veterans don't understand all the low level code which is unfortunate but expected given the complexity
<pinoaffe>cuz I'm getting certificate failures, and I don't feel like waiting 12 hours between each attempt
<oriansj>jgart[m]: hard to learn complexity is a sign of a foundational design failure.
<raghavgururajan>mekeor[m]: Never used `xsetwacom` command. Also, not sure if using that command is the right way to set relevant values in Guix System.
<jgart[m]>pinoaffe: how does certbot do it without Guix?
<civodul>jgart[m]: re doc & design, if you combine the manual, the blog posts, and the publications at, you should have a lot covered :-)
<sneek>Welcome back civodul, you have 1 message!
<sneek>civodul, efraim says: the julia packages did go through qa.guix,
<led-lightbulb>~sneek: Closed issue )fGg( "[PATCH 00/58] New julia patches" from Efraim Flashner
<pinoaffe>jgart[m]: using a config that guix does not create by default
<pinoaffe>but I think I've figured it out, I just need to run /var/lib/certbot/renew-certificates
<jgart[m]>pinoaffe: I mean what is the method that people use to renew certbot at a smaller interval usually?
<raghavgururajan>pinoaffe: Yep, that's what I do.
<jgart[m]>civodul: right now I just want to understand the mapping between bags and derivations at a high level
<pinoaffe>jgart[m]: crontab is just a shell command (implemented in python) that can be started by your crontab/init/whatever
<jgart[m]>There's other things I'm trying to understand but I'll get to those eventually
<jgart[m]>civodul: I'd like some sort of visual diagram to show the mapping between bags and derivations.
<jgart[m]>How the fields in a bag get mapped to the derivation.
<jgart[m]>If Guile had a more pleasant step debugger experience this would be easier to trace for me. I'm pretty experienced with using pdb/pudb to step through code and understand how it works and visit all the code paths but I can't seem to get the same experience with Guile's debugger.
<jgart[m]>I might just have to spend way more time with it, dunno
<jgart[m]>I don't want to sprinkle pk everywhere, I want to see local variables in a monadic context and step through stuff
<jgart[m]>That said, I realize that guile is free software and I have to live with what I currently have until I find the time or someone else does to improve the debugging experience and/or debugger docs in guile
<jgart[m]>raghavgururajan: Merry Guixmas you Guixer extraordinaire!
<jgart[m]>pinoaffe: is the certbot service composed with mcron somehow?
<jgart[m]>jgart: reads the code
<jgart[m]>pinoaffe: oh ya it is
<jgart[m]>On line 198: (service-extension mcron-service-type
<lechner>pinoaffe / Hi, what type of certificate failures do you see, please?
<jgart[m]>pinoaffe: you might need to redefine `certbot-renewal-jobs`
<jgart[m]>;; Attempt to renew the certificates twice per day, at a random minute
<jgart[m]>;; within the hour. See
<jgart[m]>oops found a broken link ;()
<lechner>somehow i cannot envision having an issue like that with Let's Encrypt
<jgart[m]>I'm not sure exactly what certbot doc Clément Lassieur was trying to link to with there comment
<raghavgururajan>jgart[m]: LoL, you too! Got my message on XMPP?
<jgart[m]>not yet, long story have to transfer my omemo over to this Guix System laptop
<jgart[m]>Wish I could just home dot my omemo...
<jgart[m]>gotta figure that one out now
<jgart[m]>ok I did my civil duty
<led-lightbulb>~jgartemat: Open issue )jKg( "[PATCH] services: certbot: Fix broken link." from jgart
<jgart[m]>is led-lightbulb a new bot?
<lechner>yes, soon to be renamed to lightbulb
<jgart[m]>civodul: Thanks for writing redshift-service-type. I use it now!
<jgart[m]>lechner: where's the code for it?
<jgart[m]>How can we print the names of all the phases of a given package?
<jgart[m]>From the command line
<jgart[m]>That would be dope
<jgart[m]>Hopefully Santa will send a patch for that under the mumi Christmas tree before midnight
<jonsger>ACTION think that led-lightbulb is more compliant with EU ilumination regulations :P
<Kolev>I'm happy on RDE!!!
<jgart[m]>Kolev: Is your rde dots published somewhere?
<Kolev>jgart[m]: Tonight.
<ecbrown>i think the guix cert just expired?!?!
<jgart[m]>k, thnx
<ecbrown>, that is
<jgart[m]>why so?
<jgart[m]>What's the error msg?
<ecbrown>just an expired cert error (safari, macos ventura)
<nckx>Ah, ****.
<jgart[m]>ecbrown: Thanks for the notification on that
<ecbrown>my pleasure
<ecbrown>this is why i take a couple laptops on vacation lol
<jgart[m]>that's hardcore
<ecbrown>hardcore is when i take my dec alpha
<jgart[m]>what's that?
<jgart[m]>Oh got
<oriansj>ecbrown: now if only you wanted to bootstrap DEC Alpha...
<nckx>ecbrown: Wise you :-( My kingdom for a laptop. (And thanks.)
<lechner>jgart[m] /
<jgart[m]>ecbrown: Isn't it riscy to travel with that one?
<ecbrown>oh my
<jgart[m]>lechner: very cool!
<jgart[m]>I'd like to set that up for guixrus, we have a graphql API also with
<jgart[m]>lechner: that irc library that you're using is this one?
<jgart[m]>Are you deploying the bot with Guix System?
<lechner>jgart[m] / please feel free to adapt as needed. you probably won't need the "naptcha" bug identifiers, which make up two thirds of the file
<lechner>yes, i will. like this
<jgart[m]>What was the naptcha bug thing for?
<jgart[m]>jgart reads
<civodul>nckx: re expired cert, oops! we need to change DNS entries etc., right?
<civodul>are you on it?
<nckx>ecbrown: Fixed, and thanks!
<civodul>awesome, thanks :-)
<nckx>What I did not do: DNS. What I did do: copy over the certbot .conf, change accounts to bayfront's, run certbot on bayfront.
<nckx>And restart nginx, because otherwise it won't pick it up.
<nckx>All this from a 'phone, please send me a medal thanks.
<lechner>jgart[m] / for several years, i maintained a busy package in an another distro and---having responded to several hundred bugs---i came up with a new, shorter bug identifier that is sure to generate some controversy. it has horns
<oriansj>sure nckx :needed a real laptop.meh:
<jas4711[m]>is it a bad idea to rm -rf things in /gnu/store/? how to fix the following error message? it doesn't go away if i retry 'guix install texlive'
<jgart[m]>nckx: Did you do that from a Pine****e Pro?
<nckx>Alas, no.
<nckx>I librefied it as much as possible but it is not rms-blessed.
<civodul>nckx: woow! well deserved: 🥇
<nckx>(LineageOS with a good few blobs ripped out, so no baseband.)
<lechner>jas4711[m] / i would not touch the store, personally. the error just means your daemon will try to build texlive locally
<lechner>nckx / do you have an external keyboard?
<nckx>I do have a Dvorak OSK though. Small comfort.
<jgart[m]>nckx: If you would have had to connect a wifi dingle to the phone that would have delayed your call to action
<jas4711[m]>lechner: thanks. ouch, the error message i usually get wasn't in the pastebin. here is the error that happens (swedish.. just means a mkdir failed because the file exists): 0.0%guix substitute: fel: mkdir: Filen existerar
<ecbrown>nckx: thank you!
<nckx>jas4711[m]: Less a bad idea (although it is) than that it won't address your problem.
<nckx>jgart[m]: Wi-Fi dingle is my new favourite Christmas word.
<ecbrown>wi-fi dingle bells
<jgart[m]>I had a replicant phone once, three of them. But alas, now I have a *******
<lechner>that's terrible
<jas4711[m]>jas4711[m]: it solved itself now that the files was downloaded completely. i suspect the 'mkdir' error i got when a download failed had to be about something else
<jgart[m]>word/technology of the day
<nckx>Too many asteroids for iPhone, but missing -n for Android, this hurts my brain.
<nckx>jgart[m]: Why did you switch?
<jgart[m]>I had a pinephone pro once but alas:
<nckx>'Accidentally' what the actual.
<jgart[m]>See my microblog above
<jgart[m]>My blogposts are scattered across GitHub commit web UI
<jgart[m]>I have a oneplus 6 now with normie android on it
<jgart[m]>I want to get what drew is daily driving:
<jgart[m]>And put Guix System on it
<jgart[m]>non**** almost has all of the required pinephone software needed for that
<nckx>Huh. OK. This is a Poco F3.
<nckx>Probably not close, but still...
<nckx>...another time-waster project announces itself.
<jgart[m]>PinePhone Pro is to experimental right now
<jgart[m]>I'll wait 5 years
<nckx>So apparently everything 'works' on the F3... except 'wi-fi'. Deal braker, unfortunately.
<omlet[m]>just curiosity
<omlet[m]><VesselWave> "omlet: I am trying to make a..." <- just curiosity
<jgart[m]>Almost everything works on the F1
<jgart[m]>omlet: what's cooking?
<omlet[m]><VesselWave> "omlet: I am trying to make a..." <- I want learn latino zig and scheme programming language too for help
<omlet[m]>But in i dont find latino programming language but not have
<jgart[m]>What is latino zig?
<omlet[m]>jgart[m]: Are programming languages
<omlet[m]>Zig is available in guix
<omlet[m]>Latino have syntax in spanish
<jgart[m]>Ohh didn't know about the spanish zig
<omlet[m]>I think its the better language in other speak labguage
<omlet[m]>jgart[m]: Zog is english
<jgart[m]>hay un latino scheme?
<omlet[m]>jgart[m]: No sé
<omlet[m]>No sé como fue hecho pero haz busca por lenguaje latino en internet
<jgart[m]>hay otro lenguaje que tiene una version en español?
<omlet[m]>jgart[m]: Creo que latino es lo que podriamos decir, el mejor
<mirai>non-english scheme should be implementable with macros that perform a dictionary substitution
<omlet[m]>Y con planificaciones para integrar gtk
<omlet[m]>mirai: Its better speak english here i think
<jgart[m]>esta bien
<civodul>omlet[m]: ¿donde se puede leer a proposito de Zig Latino?
<mirai>you might get some interesting conventions for boolean variables like (¿activar? #t)
<omlet[m]>Grupo para hablantes de español en matrix
<mirai>non RTL languages might be fun though
<omlet[m]>Its better share other group in other languages
<omlet[m]>jgart[m]: No lo hago por mo, es porque creo que la mayoria no habla español
<jgart[m]>me uní a ese canal de matrix gracias
<civodul>mirai: !
<omlet[m]>mirai: Yes
<omlet[m]>Escribir("hello wold")
<civodul>omlet[m]: interestante
<jgart[m]>We can have a spanish scheme, but what if the diacritics in Spanish accidentally quote a form? jk
<omlet[m]>civodul: Yes, and the objective is integrate with gtk
<omlet[m]>Not is the childrrn programming language
<civodul>i'm skeptical about the approach from an engineering viewpoint
<jgart[m]>Have you heard of pollo scheme? It compiles to C
<civodul>but the issue is a real one
<civodul>pollo scheme? no
<mirai>would something like (plus 1 2) turn into (3 4 א‎ ב‎ ג‎ ד‎ ה) ?
<mirai>what about mongolian or top-to-bottom CJK ?
<jgart[m]>civodul: I was joking. Pollo is chicken
<omlet[m]>jgart[m]: In portuguese replace ñ for nh
<civodul>oh right :-)
<civodul>mirai: the approach would not accommodate every script, for sure
<mirai>civodul: initially I was thinking it was straightforward or obvious that something like scheme would be language agnostic (the key ingredient being parenthesis)
<omlet[m]>civodul: I think it is difficult to create programming languages in different languages (because there will be be less interested in maternal language)
<jgart[m]>The key ingredient being parentheses and the english language...
<civodul>another approach would be an editor that translates on the fly, even if the underlying thing remains English
<omlet[m]>jgart[m]: Right
<mirai>though that was just RTL + latin-script bias clouding things up
<omlet[m]>Its the padronization
<omlet[m]>For hard developers its hard switch
<mirai>turns out written human language comes in multiple forms
<omlet[m]>mirai: I like nko script
<jgart[m]>¿Cuál es el mapeo entre una bolsa y una derivación?
<omlet[m]>jgart[m]: Como hablé yo no sé porque no está empaquetado en guix
<jgart[m]>Yo soy un noob también
<omlet[m]>So hablas deblatino o tiene que entrar en guix por alguién, o depues con distrobox
<omlet[m]>jgart[m]: Ni scheme yo sé
<jgart[m]>Estas en candela
<omlet[m]>Ni empaquetar las cosas
<omlet[m]>Ni shell
<omlet[m]>jgart[m]: Mi gusta guix
<omlet[m]>Demuentro que hasta un noob puede usar guix solamente por la documentacion y ayuda
<jgart[m]>Si te gustas guix entonces tienes que aprender Guile
<omlet[m]>jgart[m]: Tengo que hacerlo
<omlet[m]>Mejor que nix
<jgart[m]>Guile es la clave a Guix
<omlet[m]>Porque no es coerente
<omlet[m]>jgart[m]: Yo sé
<civodul>bueno, también se puede utilizar Guix sin conocer Guile/Scheme :-)
<omlet[m]>Ya ahora scheme tiene colecto de lixera?
<civodul>depiende de lo que quieres hacer
<omlet[m]>civodul: Nadie de otro mondo
<omlet[m]>civodul: Ok, con zi es tudo manual
<omlet[m]>Y con rust es tudo autonático
<omlet[m]>civodul: No hay coletor de lixo eb zig o rust
<civodul>Guix no es un lenguaje de programación, so no creo que no se debería comparecerlo con Zig/Rust
<jgart[m]>civodul: necesitamos una interfaz gráfica (GUI) de usuario para omlet
<mirai>some scripts even have their single quote equivalents! (まっぷ f 「(1 2 3 4 5))
<jgart[m]>ambrevar no estaba haciendo un interfaz gráfico?
<civodul>no se
<omlet[m]>civodul: Giox no, scheme, sorry
<jgart[m]>civodul: Yo lo voy crear en Python. Perdóname!
<omlet[m]>Or is guile?
<omlet[m]>No sé so schene es solo una modificacion de guile solo para guix
<jgart[m]>Guix is a Guile library
<omlet[m]>Y schene?
<omlet[m]>* Y scheme?
<jgart[m]>But it's also a program
<jgart[m]>as in the CLI tool
<jgart[m]>guix --help
<omlet[m]>jgart[m]: Yes
<jgart[m]>The CLI tool just calls the Guix library
<jgart[m]>in opinionated ways
<Kolev>I now have published my RDE configs.
<jgart[m]>Kolev: thnx
<omlet[m]>I am 99% noob
<jgart[m]>Make it a NY resolution to become 98% noob
<jgart[m]>omlet: read that:
<jgart[m]>There might be a Spanish translation online of the Scheme tutorial?