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<florhizome[m]><nckx> "Does Guix's GNOME have a virtual..." <- Rudraveer Mandal: yes but it sucks
<florhizome[m]>would suggest looking for alternatives :D
<florhizome[m]>Ubuntu has one that seems more advanced then gnome stock.
<nckx>I tried to package Maliit today. Wasn't fun; doesn't work (yet).
<jackhill>nckx: what was your question?
<nckx>Whether Guix's GNOME has a virtual, of course.
<nckx>I was very surprised that Guix had none.
<nckx>Or at least none that I could find.
<KarlJoad>How "strong" is an inherit? I want to add an additional phase to the stumpwm+slynk package to configure the contrib-module's directory to point into the store, but I do not want to duplicate stumpwm+slynk.
<jackhill>I guess there's also squeekboard and wvkbd which we don't have and
<jackhill>although, I guess wvkbd is specific to wlroots? To think of it, I'm not sure squeekboard works outside of posh either
<KarlJoad>Is there a way to force a package to build locally, but still use substitutes for the various inputs to the one I want to build?
<unmatched-paren>KarlJoad: --check?
<unmatched-paren>If I understand 'force a package to build locally' correctly.
<KarlJoad>unmatched-paren: That was it. I just want to inspect the build directory (by also passing -K) and see what asdf-build-system/sbcl was doing.
<KarlJoad>For packages, is package inheritance or building through composition of functions preferred?
<unmatched-paren>As far as I've seen, package inheritance is generally preferred.
<KarlJoad>Ok... I will have to figure that out then... later...
<nckx>KarlJoad: Inheritance is as strong as it gets: you start off with a record that is identical to the inherited one, then only the fields you specify (below it) are replaced.
<nckx>The replacement is complete, though: if you write (inherit foo) (arguments '(blah)), no trace of foo's arguments will remain.
<nckx>If you want to mix at the level of phases, use substitute-keyword-arguments and modify-phases on the inherited ones.
<nckx>You can do this even without inheriting.
<KarlJoad>nckx: Ok, cool. That was what I was curious about. StumpWM has a configure flag for the contrib-modules directory, and I am trying to figure out how to get that run so it builds.
<KarlJoad>Problem is, StumpWM as it is now, build using asdf-build-system, which does not use, configure, make, or friends.
<nckx>Ah. I'm not at coomputer, I'm afraid.
<KarlJoad>No worries. I need to figure out how to run the autogen & configure scripts before ASDF does anything to build Stump, that way I can point the modules-dir to a store location.
<akirakyle>Anyone know whats up with
<akirakyle>It's been down all day afaik
<nckx>akirakyle: Something went wrong with Shepherd. The machine probably needs to be physically rebooted.
<akirakyle>nckx thx, hope it gets sorted out soon since trying to browse debbugs sucks
<KarlJoad>nckx: So, I figured out that I can just change the `make-image.lisp` before the build phase and change the modules-dir. That way I do not have to mess with the build system.
<nckx`>Hah. Somewhere, something was said that causes my IRC client to crash each time I try to connect to Libera. Wonder what it was.
<atka>hi guix, are there guix issues again? guix pull is failing and my generations are broken somehow. went from a working system to a guix pull and reconfigure to a broken systems
<atka>guix pull is failing saying dependencies can't be built
<atka>fixed my generations but guix pull is failing to build guix-cli-core.drv
<podiki[m]>not that I know of, pulled a few hours ago and was fine
<podiki[m]>looks like I"m on the last commit I see the CI built, not sure why there's nothing newer (cd3c4ad)
<nckx>Builds aren't building for the same reason issues. is down.
<podiki[m]>ah (though issues. was down for longer, is it spreading??)
<podiki[m]>for once I had a lucky pull then, usually I try right as things happen
<nckx>I think they began failing around the same time.
<podiki[m]>oh. thought I hadn't seen issues up for more than a day
<podiki[m]>anyway, poor server, alone and helpless
<raghavgururajan>Hello Guix!
<nckx>I think I pushed cd3c4 late Thursday evening.
<nckx>Time flies :-/
<nckx>Hi Raghav.
*nckx away.
<florhizome[m]>Hi guix ^^
<florhizome[m]>Server issues?
<florhizome[m]>Funny cause guix has been quacking about not pulling for 9 days
<gnucode>hmmm, guix pull just failed for me.
<gnucode>error: service-type: unbound variable
<gnucode>(gnu home service symlink-manager)
<podiki[m]>ci hasn't built in a bit, issues front end down, ...not sure if that should cause problems, but that's the status at least
<florhizome[m]>It's tragic this all still lives and dies with one server managed voluntarily (as i understand)
<atka>if that's true, we should do something about that
<atka>I'm willing to pitch in
<RudraveerMandal[>Grub install fails
<RudraveerMandal[>"failed to get canonical path of none"
<dirtcastle>how to get zathura work. with mupdf extension and all.
<roptat>hi guix!
<roptat>dirtcastle, guix should have defined a variable for you if you installed zathura and its extension in the same profile (like, both with guix install)
<roptat>you should have ZATHURA_PLUGINS_PATH
<roptat>if not, try GUIX_PROFILE=HOME/.guix-profile; . "$profile/etc/profile"; unset GUIX_PROFILE
<roptat>you'll need that in your .profile
<roptat>sorry, typo: GUIX_PROFILE=$HOME/.guix-profile; . "$profile/etc/profile"; unset GUIX_PROFILE
<roptat>note that it's different from .config/guix/current, you need both
<roptat>comment je pourrais traduire "seat management" ?
<vivien>Dans quel contexte ?
<roptat>pour la description du démon seatd
<roptat>j'ai trouvé « gestion de séance » je trouve ça pas mal
<vhallac>Hello. Is guix pull broken at the moment
<vhallac>And where do I start trying to figure out what is causing the problem?
<vhallac>I get the build log with the error on guix-cli, which eventually says "error: service-type: unbound variable", but I am not even sure which file causes this.
<vhallac>It looks like it is in gnu/home/services/symlink-manager, but I am not sure
***Dynom_ is now known as Guest3330
<vivien>roptat, je ne connais pas bien le logiciel en question, mais le mot « session » revient souvent dans ce contexte, non ?
<vivien>(c’est peut-être autre chose)
<unmatched-paren>vhallac: Yes, you're right
<unmatched-paren>I think we need to import (gnu services configuration) in that file
<unmatched-paren>I'll send a patch.
<unmatched-paren>Hmm, that's bizarre
<unmatched-paren>that file imports (gnu home services)
<unmatched-paren>which re-exports service-type
<vhallac>yea. I am trying to build from source, but I cannot find the make target
<vhallac>It tries to build everything, which is taking too long
<vhallac>make-cli-go built successfully. Not sure if it should have failed
<unmatched-paren>i'm running full make now
<vhallac>so am I. I'll race you ;)
<vhallac>I had a look at changes in symlink-manager.scm and services.scm, but couldn't see anything suspicious
<unmatched-paren>nothing in gnu/services.scm either
<vhallac>make install completes with /usr/local/bin/guix in DESTDIR
<vhallac>make as-derivation fails. I don't know how to proceed.
<vhallac>Maybe a git bisect with successive make as-derivation
<unmatched-paren>your make is already done?
<unmatched-paren>i'm only at 16% :(
<vhallac>I build .go earlier
<vhallac>I mean I started with make-cli-go before I wrote here
<unmatched-paren>Well, bisect found a bad commit
<unmatched-paren>but it was unrelated :P
<vhallac>Oh well, any bug squished is good news. :)
<unmatched-paren>Okay, I've sent a bug report email
<unmatched-paren>Oh, right, is down...
<roptat>vivien, visiblement non, mais séance n'est pas adapté non plus
<roptat> défini seat et session
<vhallac>unmatched-paren: the link to has some extra chars at end.
<unmatched-paren>Yeah, I saw that...
<vhallac>Not your fault, I realized. :D
<vhallac>Oh well, if person looking at it cannot figure correct link, they can't fix the problem either. ;)
<unmatched-paren>Somehow it did that, even though I surrounded it with < > :)
<paulbutgold>Dear all, I somewhat followed the discussion about teams on guix-devel. Are teams already active? Is there some way to point out that some patches require some love? I'm not in a hustle as I'm already using those packages through my own channel but I'd like for them to be in Guix as I sent those patches around January the 4th
<sneek>Welcome back paulbutgold, you have 1 message!
<sneek>paulbutgold, nckx says: corefreq is another package that combines build systems (disclaimer: I wrote it).
<roptat>vivien, j'imagine que siège correspond, finalement
<vhallac>unmatched-paren: If I didn't mess up, ba22560627f848f40891a56355ff26b6de1380bc is the first broken commit
<vhallac>I cannot see how it breaks this, though.
<vhallac>Oh well, at least I have a good commit to guix pull from. :)
<unmatched-paren>Ah, thanks.
<unmatched-paren>I'll add that information to the bug report :)
<vhallac>It may be incorrect. Although I was able to do a "guix pull --commit=5df8f71"
<unmatched-paren>so am I
<vhallac>Can you try "git revert ba22560627f848f40891a56355ff26b6de1380bc --no-commit" on master? It looks like it is building
<unmatched-paren>Well, I never actually finished my `make` on master
<unmatched-paren>I cancelled it to try `git bisect` :)
<unmatched-paren>But I'll try that.
<unmatched-paren>Actually, I'll do `guix pull --commit=ba22560627f848f40891a56355ff26b6de1380bc`.
<vhallac>That's a good idea. I didn't try that
<unmatched-paren>And I can confirm that it breaks.
<vhallac>brilliant. Thanks for investigating.
<unmatched-paren>Ah, maxime has replied to the bug report.
<vhallac>I noticed that the gc.scm is only using modules from guix before the commit
<vhallac>Now it uses (gnu home). That can easily intorduce a cycle
<unmatched-paren>Hmm, well, (gnu home) uses (gnu home services symlink-manager)
<unmatched-paren>but i don't see how that could cause a cycle
<vhallac>Ye, I don't know anything about the code base, so I should not really say anything. :D
<unmatched-paren>Oh, there's another reply
<unmatched-paren>> Looks like an &assertion-failure is being obscured, so I guess the error handling in (guix build compile) is wrong
<vhallac>It could be a response to the error you've seen during bisect
<unmatched-paren>Yeah, it is.
*attila_lendvai is rather frustrated with the error handling in the guix/shepherd codebase
<tewi>hi, i have a question - if many packages were installed with guix install separately (think about 70), and all the generations were to be deleted, would the installed packages be preserved?
<clever>tewi: if you keep the latest/current generation, yes
<clever>if the current generation is deleted, then its like you never installed anything
<tewi>clever: nice, so it just collects all of the stuff into one generation i guess
<PotentialUser-13>Hi, so I was tinkering with the config.scm file trying to split it into multiple files, and I have started by moving out the users block into a module. I copied config.scm to a new file base-system.scm. in the same folder I have users.scm. This are the files content: . currently when testing them with `sudo guix system
<PotentialUser-13>build guix/systems/base-system.scm` it returns the error `uix system: error: failed to load 'guix/systems/base-system.scm':
<PotentialUser-13>ice-9/boot-9.scm:3330:6: In procedure resolve-interface:
<PotentialUser-13>no code for module (systemUsersModule)` not sure what Im doing wrong, any tips?
<unmatched-paren>PotentialUser-13: before i answer your question: why are you using camelCase instead of kebab-case?
<clever>tewi: yeah, each time you add/remove/upgrade something, it takes the current generation, mutates it, and saves the new state as the next generation
<clever>tewi: rollbacks are just switching which generation is current
<unmatched-paren>by the way, you can just use (primitive-load "FILE.scm")
<muradm>hello guix
<unmatched-paren>hello muradm
<muradm>something broken after guix pull?
<muradm>ok :)
<unmatched-paren>issue #56722
<muradm>exactly.. any solution?
<unmatched-paren>Well, I can't see any cycle in (gnu home services) or (gnu home services symlink-manager), at least
<unmatched-paren>workaround is `guix pull --commit=5df8f7802e8b45855e8f84830677001dc631e4f7`
<PotentialUser-13>unmatched-paren uh its what I'm used to put :P didnt realize it. Prob should get used to use that with this files
<unmatched-paren>which isn't too far behind
<unmatched-paren>PotentialUser-13: btw i think . is always in the load-path anyway
<unmatched-paren>and you can merge (use-modules (systemUsersModule)) and (use-module (gnu)) into (use-modules (gnu) (systemUsersModule))
<unmatched-paren>I know why it isn't working.
<unmatched-paren>The name of the module has to be the same as the name of the file without .scm.
<unmatched-paren>So (systemUsersModule) should be renamed to (users).
<unmatched-paren>I didn't notice that filename :)
<PotentialUser-13>hmmm Im still getting `no code for module (system-users-module)` after applying the suggested changes, its currently like this
<unmatched-paren>Well, now it's in (guix systems system-users-module).
<unmatched-paren>And your system is in (guix systems base-system).
<unmatched-paren>Is this a channel or something?
<PotentialUser-13>so the path in the use module (`(use-modules (gnu) (system-users-module))`) is relative to the path where I call the system build? (Im guessing it should be then `(use-modules (gnu) (guix system system-users-module))`)
<unmatched-paren>You could do (add-to-load-path (dirname (current-filename)))
<PotentialUser-13>no, Im trhying to make a config for my main pc and tinkering with the configs however I can :D
<hako>Hi Guix!
<unmatched-paren>(oops :P)
<PotentialUser-13>So far from what I understand with guix and guix home I should be able to have declarative configs for my pc and servers, but there isn´t as much info/tutorials/examples as I would like out there, but so far Im liking what im learning
<hako>I'm trying to package python-i3ipc (, but get stucked at testing (with some 'Fontconfig error: No writable cache directories
<hako>' errors)
<hako>build log uploaded here:
<hako>what could I do next?
<unmatched-paren>hako: I was thinking you could set some FC_CACHE env var, but apparently such a thing doesn't exist
<Maya[m]1>hi, is the function find-files from (guix build utils) recursive?
<Maya[m]1>bcs if not, i think that the function patch-shebangs in %standard-phases has a bug, i have discovered that it does not patch all shebangs and the pcsc-lite package is broken
<unmatched-paren>it's probably recursive
<unmatched-paren>hako: aha! try adding a phase that does (setenv "XDG_CACHE_HOME" ".cache")
<unmatched-paren>if that doesn't work, try adding (mkdir-p ".cache/fontconfig") after it
<hako>unmatched-paren: Greeeeeeaaaaat THX!
<Maya[m]1>unmatched-paren: when I looked at it it didn’t seem that way
<Maya[m]1>but im not exactly great in guix methods
<Maya[m]1>imo the patch shebangs should be recursive and i don’t understand why the python script from pcsc-lite doesn’t get patched
<unmatched-paren>thanks for sending a patch for i3-autotiling, i wrote a package for it and put it in guixrus but never upstreamed it (and i didn't enable the tests)
<unmatched-paren>Maya[m]1: I think it is
<unmatched-paren>it uses file-system-fold
<unmatched-paren>which sounds recursive to me
<unmatched-paren>Maya[m]1: Hmm, is this script generated?
<unmatched-paren>Maya[m]1: search for `file-system-fold`
<Maya[m]1>unmatched-paren: no, it is a source file
<Maya[m]1>i think it is somehow modified but the shebang is there
<hako>still some errors...
<hako>FAILED test/
<hako>FAILED test/aio/
<hako>FAILED test/aio/ - RuntimeErr...
<unmatched-paren>Maya[m]1: Could you post a link to the file in its git repo or whatever?
<unmatched-paren>hako: Maybe you need to add i3 to the native-inputs?
<unmatched-paren>could you paste the package?
<Maya[m]1>unmatched-paren: it is from
<Maya[m]1>and it is put into /run/current-system/profile/bin/pcsc-spy
<Maya[m]1>and you can find that file in src/spy/pcsc-spy
<unmatched-paren>Umm, could you use that site needs javascript
<unmatched-paren>hako: ^
<unmatched-paren>Maya[m]1: thakns
<hako>ok, btw that's my site...
<unmatched-paren>hako: btw (which "true") or (string-append (assoc-ref inputs "coreutils") "/bin/true") is probably faster than search-input-files
<unmatched-paren>hako: Could you paste the full log?
<unmatched-paren>hako: I wonder if our i3 is too recent or something
<unmatched-paren>Anyway, it looks like this is quite a flaky test suite:
<unmatched-paren>maybe you'd be better to just disable it
<unmatched-paren>Maya[m]1: looks like there's a git repo here
<unmatched-paren>Oh, right. I thought you were actually packaging pcsc-lite
<unmatched-paren>but we already have it
<Maya[m]1>yes it already is in guix but it is broken
<hako>unmatched-paren: OK, thanks  : )
<Maya[m]1>unmatched-paren: i wanted to submit a patch to fix it but i didn’t know how patch-shebangs works
<unmatched-paren>Maya[m]1: Hmm. #! /usr/bin/python3
<unmatched-paren>Maybe the space is confusing it.
<Maya[m]1>unmatched-paren: oh! i haben noticed the space
<Maya[m]1>haven’t *
<unmatched-paren>Buuuut.... the regex patch-shebang uses seems to handle blanks.
<unmatched-paren>^[[:blank:]]*(/[[:graph:]]+)[[:blank:]]*([[:graph:]]*)(.*)$ after eating the #!
<unmatched-paren>I wonder if it's because python isn't given as an input to pcsc-lite.
<Maya[m]1>yes it should be an input
<Maya[m]1>I can test it
<unmatched-paren>patch-shebang: ./src/spy/pcsc-spy: warning: no binary for interpreter `python3' found in $PATH
<unmatched-paren>bug found
<Maya[m]1>unmatched-paren: thanks for the help! <3
<unmatched-paren>no problem!
<Maya[m]1>if i made a change in local git clone of guix, i ran bootstrap and config, how can I test-install my changed package? If I run ./pre-inst-env guix install <package> it doesn’t reflect the change in the repository
<unmatched-paren>Maya[m]1: try ./pre-inst-env guix shell package
<unmatched-paren>Oh, wait
<Maya[m]1>unmatched-paren: nothing changed
<nckx>Yeah, it should :)
<sneek>nckx, you have 2 messages!
<sneek>nckx, raghavgururajan says: Test Message
<sneek>nckx, raghavgururajan says: Thoughts?
<nckx>I've seen that page.
<unmatched-paren>I've seen that site
<unmatched-paren>it's very stupid
<unmatched-paren>although I saw its page on linux security, not firefox
<nckx>raghavgururajan: I found no evidence of thought anywhere on that Web site, so it would not be fair for me to have any.
<unmatched-paren>It tries to argue that lack of sandboxing on Linux makes it insecure because malicious applications blah blah
*nckx read the Linux page now.
<nckx>It was bad.
<unmatched-paren>But the security model is not to stop malicious applications doing bad things, it's to prevent the user from installing them in the first place!
<unmatched-paren>For one, most applications under linux are free-source so they're unlikely to be malicious
<unmatched-paren>And distros will filter out applications that are malicious
<nckx>No, you need to pay Apple to do that.
<nckx>You didn't read hard enough. Read harder.
*nckx away.
<Maya[m]1>unmatched-paren: did i do something wrong with pre-inst-env?
<unmatched-paren>Maya[m]1: Have you run make?
<teythoon>% guix shell --pure gcc -- /bin/sh -c "echo 'int main() {}'|gcc -x c -"
<teythoon>gcc: fatal error: cannot execute 'as': execvp: No such file or directory
<teythoon>compilation terminated.
<unmatched-paren>teythoon: s/gcc/gcc-toolchain/
<unmatched-paren>gcc does not include binutils
<teythoon>i guess that distinction is very helpful for all the people who just want to run the preprocessor
<nashdidan[m]>Hi guys. New to Guix. Any idea why "git pull" fails with this right now for me? 10x!
<nashdidan[m]>builder for `/gnu/store/wz251qlhkh17zd1zlf5xi0qfi69iyp04-guix-cli-core.drv' failed with exit code 1
<nashdidan[m]>build of /gnu/store/wz251qlhkh17zd1zlf5xi0qfi69iyp04-guix-cli-core.drv failed
<unmatched-paren>it's also very helpful for all the applications that reference libgcc :)
<teythoon>but those don't use gcc-the-binary, so would they not be better off depending on libgcc instead?
<PotentialUser-13>Hi again! when trying to create a module in which I declare the system users its giving me
<PotentialUser-13>`ice-9/eval.scm:223:20: In procedure proc:error: guix: unbound variable
<PotentialUser-13>hint: Did you forget `(use-modules (gnu packages package-management))'?`
<PotentialUser-13>`gnu packages package-management` is included in both files.
<PotentialUser-13>the most similar issue I found was this but im not using load anywhere so Im not sure if it applies here. I've also looked around other configs I found to see how other people split and organized their files into modules
<PotentialUser-13> (   is using `loadkeys-service-type` which is defined in just like  Im defining systemUsers but ofc its not working for me :( )  this is how I currently have it:
<PotentialUser-13> any idea on how to debug this?
<nckx>teythoon: gcc-toolchain provides more than just gcc (including binutils, as you learnt), all patched to actually work together to produce working binaries.
<raghavgururajan>nckx: LoL. Sneek cross-posted that thing.
<sneek>raghavgururajan, you have 1 message!
<sneek>raghavgururajan, raghavgururajan says: Test
<nckx>PotentialUser-13: The issue is (add-to-load-path (guix(systems(system-users-module)))) — which incidentally happens before any module imports, but the real question is why you're calling a procedure named ‘guix’ without knowing what it is.
<unmatched-paren>teythoon: libgcc is included with gcc
<raghavgururajan>nckx, unmatched-paren: Btw, I was wondering if the claims or so-called claims extend to today? and whether to icecat and ungoogled-chromium as well.
<unmatched-paren>in a seperate :lib output
<nckx>sneek: botsnack for special bots
<unmatched-paren>raghavgururajan: I think there may be some truth in the idea that firefox isn't as private as many people think it is.
<nckx>Which is a prejudice wrapped in a vague assertion.
<nckx>(Not saying you're wrong, it's probably true, but wow has it absolutely nothing to do with ‘browser security’.)
<unmatched-paren>But I think most distros remove the telemetry stuff anyway.
<PotentialUser-13>nckx: its the name of the folder its in: `
<PotentialUser-13>└── systems
<PotentialUser-13>    ├── base-system.scm
<PotentialUser-13>    └── system-users-module.scm
<PotentialUser-13>nckx: its the name of the folder its in:
<PotentialUser-13>└── systems
<PotentialUser-13>    ├── base-system.scm
<PotentialUser-13>    └── system-users-module.scm
<unmatched-paren>and of course there's the modified variants like icecat and librewolf
<raghavgururajan>My line of thinking was like if firefox is indeed less secure than chromium, then how come it missed by tor-project's review and their choice of firefox over chromium. Their whole area of research and study is security and privacy right.
<nckx>Use a pastebin (such as the one in the topic) for multi-line (>2 or 3 lines) pastes, PotentialUser-13.
<unmatched-paren>PotentialUser-13: (add-to-load-path) accepts a directory string
<unmatched-paren>and anyway, even if it did accept a module spec it would be `(guix systems)`
<unmatched-paren>raghavgururajan: Yes, that's a good point
<nckx>PotentialUser-13: That is not how Guile modules are name (it would be (guix systems system-users-module) if so), but yes, this needs to be a stringy file name anyway.
<unmatched-paren>And chromium also has a ton of telemetry
<unmatched-paren>which after all is the whole point of ungoogled-chromium
<unmatched-paren>Apparently the author of that site is a developer of, some linux distro for the ultra-paranoid.
<unmatched-paren>--naturally it includes bitcoin and monero pre-installed...-
<raghavgururajan>Google tool telemetry of chromium further to "Don't do anything without my knowledge".
<PotentialUser-13>that did it, the moment I changed it to a string it worked, thanks! (add-to-load-path "guix/systems/")
<teythoon>nckx, unmatched-paren: my point was, that is rather unexpected and not very user friendly
<raghavgururajan>I like the word you used. ultra-paranoid.
<nckx>teythoon: I know, I was just toying with the fact that you chose to be snarky instead.
<teythoon>that is fair
<unmatched-paren>teythoon: I thought gcc was a hidden package
<unmatched-paren>but apparently not
<nckx>It used to be!
<teythoon>but i have to be honest, i have been using linux for 24 years now, i have used my fair share of distributions
<teythoon>i want to love guix
<nckx>I was just typing my confusion re: hiding, then unhiding, apparently, gcc on a yearly basis.
<unmatched-paren>Thing is, Guix isn't anything like other distros :)
<unmatched-paren>Which is why some things may seem counterintuitive.
<teythoon>but everything is somewhere between hard to frustrating
<unmatched-paren>(And some things actually are counterintuitive, I admit!)
<unmatched-paren>teythoon: What specifically do you find hard/frustrating?
<teythoon>guixsd installation, configuration, every day usage, debugging problems
<lilyp>Let's start by being modern and calling it Guix System :)
<unmatched-paren>I can understand frustration with the installation process
<unmatched-paren>it has some issues sometimes
<unmatched-paren>and debugging
<unmatched-paren>but i'm not sure about configuration/everyday usage. What do you take issue with there?
<teythoon>configuring daemons
<teythoon>i have to hope that the documentation covers my needs exactly, otherwise i'm lost
<nckx>Should have kept the GuixSD name, it obviously has preternatural mind-burrowing powers that will outlast us all.
<teythoon>tweaks to the configuration, udev rules, stuff like that
<teythoon>oh and the icecat browser
<unmatched-paren>teythoon: Yes, I think lack of documentation is the leading cause of confusion
<unmatched-paren>teythoon: you can use ungoogled-chromium if you don't like icecat
<teythoon>it breaks every web site on the planet in the name of my freedom
<unmatched-paren>i used it for a while
<teythoon>and helpfully includes a calculator for us postal rates
<teythoon>sure, i'm using ungoogled0chromium and firefox now
<lilyp>LibreJS has a literal "disable everything for the current page" button
<unmatched-paren>i'm now using qutebrowser with noscript enabled by default
<unmatched-paren>it has a `tsu` keybinding to enable js for the current page
<teythoon>every one of these things has a fix, or a good reason to be that way
<teythoon>but the overall user experience is terrible
<teythoon>guix shell seems nice at first
<unmatched-paren>not gonna deny that it does have UI issues
<teythoon>let's build a program
<teythoon>what builds programs, gcc
<teythoon>so guix shell gcc
<teythoon>saying ah, teh package you want is gcc-toolchain totally misses the point
<lilyp>gcc-toolchain maybe?
<unmatched-paren>we should hide gcc again. What was the reason for unhiding it?
<teythoon>my point exactly
<teythoon>don't hide it
<teythoon>make it match users expectations
<lilyp>you're missing the point – gcc without binutils is the greatest nothing burger imaginable
<lilyp>If we hide it, folks complain that gcc does nothing
<unmatched-paren>and make `guix (shell|install|...) gcc` a special case that warns you :)
<lilyp>if we don't then folks complain that they have to type "-toolchain" as though that was so hard
<unmatched-paren>Or maybe we can add some wrapper: `(hidden-package-with-redirect "PACKAGE-NAME" ...)`
<unmatched-paren>lilyp: To be fair it is counterintuitive
<unmatched-paren>there's no indication that gcc-toolchain exists
***deba123[m] is now known as debm[m]
<lilyp>Our documentation for `guix shell' literally mentions gcc-toolchain
<lilyp>Also @section The GCC toolchain
<teythoon>if i apt install gcc, i have a working compiler
<teythoon>surely that holds for fedora and opensuse, and all the other distributions
<teythoon>i understand that guix is not like other distributions
<teythoon>that doesn't mean it has to be unintuitive and difficult just to set it apart
<unmatched-paren>I agree.
<teythoon>you have unique features to be proud of
<unmatched-paren>We should have some diagnostic.
<teythoon>you don't have to listen to user feedback
<unmatched-paren>But there are reasons for splitting gcc and gcc-toolchain.
<teythoon>in fact, i worked for 2.5 years for a project that never listens to user feedback, yet is very successful
<teythoon>everyone i speak to agrees that it has a terrible ux tho, and everyone is looking forward to replace it
<unmatched-paren>Seems like the philosophy is "if X doesn't need Y to build successfully, X should not depend on Y"
<clever>teythoon: i dont know guix as well, but the same problem exists within nix
<clever>and the basic problem, is how does #include <foo.h> find foo.h?
<clever>there is no /usr/include to search within
<clever>nixpkgs/stdenv uses a special env var, and a shell script wrapper around gcc, to inject -I args into it, for each dependency you defined in the package
<lilyp>yeah, lots of projects sadly assume that /usr/include is a magic place that holds everything
<clever>with the extra -I flags, just doing #include <foo.h> works
<clever>then packages install to $prefix/include/package-123 to avoid conflicting with other versions of itself, exactly what nix/guix prevents
<clever>and they wind up making nix/guix harder to use with that package :P
***debm[m] is now known as deba123[m]
<Maya[m]1>unmatched-paren: ok i have submitted the patch!
<Maya[m]1>how can I create a new pam rule? of ‘auth sufficient <name>.so’?
<lilyp>Maya[m]1: use pam-entry
<lilyp>specifically for the module, use (file-append package "/path/to/sofile")
<Maya[m]1>lilyp: i want a service more than a package pam entry
<lilyp>But what is <name>.so?
<lilyp>is it not a pam module (which is part of a package)?
<lilyp>(on a higher level, the service you're looking for is probably pam-service)
<Maya[m]1>lilyp: i want to add pam entry for fprind as it does not currently work for authentication
<Maya[m]1>or at least i think that’s the problen
<lilyp>okay, and your definition so far is...?
<Maya[m]1>there is a fprint-service-type
<Maya[m]1>in guix
<Maya[m]1>but it does not modify pam.d
<lilyp>hmm, it uses dbus and polkit
<lilyp>especially the latter should be enough for granting permissions, no?
<lilyp>anyway, assuming it does not, you'd add a (service-extension pam-service-type fprintd-pam-service)
<lilyp>and then implement (fprintd-pam-service config)
<Maya[m]1>lilyp: i think I maybe have a little confused how the service type and service works
<Maya[m]1>the service type is where i put the service-extensions yes? and the service function is one where I can through records generate the pam file?
<lilyp>first yes, second not quite
<lilyp>you generate a matching configuration for the service type
<lilyp>in case of pam-service-type that'd be a list of pam-entry s
<Maya[m]1>oh! now I understand! <3
<Maya[m]1>thank you!
<ardumont> /set irc.server.libera.autojoin "#swh-devel,#swh-team,#swh-sysadm,#swh-offtopic,#guix"
<antipode>Is there any policy on backporting fixes?
<antipode>More concretely, if I send a patch adding a patch (accepted upstream, but no new release yet) fixing some issues, would such a thing be accepted if it isn't a complicated patch?
<mbakke>antipode: such patches are pretty common, especially for build/test/security fixes
<antipode>It fixes a little thing that makes tests in the software I'm writing occasionally fail.
<antipode>Anyay, I'll give it a try.
<lilyp>If it causes a bunch of rebuilds, you'll have to graft, otherwise just go through the regular review.
<Guest63>looping over %base-packages allow to do an operation per package, how do i access the package's attributes ? say its name
<Guest63>it would be very helpful to know how to do some basic object inspection, when calling reconfigure to drop in a breakpoint and dump current variables, is there any such thing built in ? this is more guile related
<roptat>Guest63, package-name
<roptat>actually, package-<name-of-a-field> to access the field in question
<roptat>packages, origins, operating-systems, manifests, etc... are records and they work in a very similar way. I tried to summarize what you can do with records in (it's still a draft, but pretty much complete, you might find it useful)
<Guest63>roptat it works, thanks
<KarlJoad>Does guix-build have a flag for keeping the build directory, even if the build succeeds?
<antipode>KarlJoad: it doesn't, only for in case it fails.
<KarlJoad>antipode: I remembered I asked this before. You can add the --check flag too, and it seems to keep the build directory.
<antipode>KarlJoad: it doesn't, at least when doing "guix build hello --check".
<antipode>Maybe if there's a reproducibility issue (unverified) as that's a failure, but otherwise it doesn't seem to.
<KarlJoad>I'm doing `guix build --check -K -f <path/to/custom/stumpwm.scm>`, and it works out.
<KarlJoad>I guess it is a good thing stumpwm is not reproducible then...
<PotentialUser-13>where should I add the unattended-upgrade service? when creating the %base-service list it returns `invalid field specifier` I tried adding `(gnu services base)` to the use-modules, but still not working this is my current config:
<PotentialUser-13>Also, why is the openssh service added to the %desktop-services? why isn't it in %base-services?
<KarlJoad>PotentialUser-13: I don't think it is in %base-services because it is not needed to make a system boot-able.
<pashencija[m]>People on aarch64
<pashencija[m]>Could you please check if package libmpeg3 builds?
<pashencija[m]>I am not sure, but there seems to be some issue here
<KarlJoad>PotentialUser-13: See `(guix) Base Services` for %base-services.
<KarlJoad>and `(guix) Desktop Services` for %desktop-services.
<cbaines>pashencija[m], says it's been failing to build on aarch64-linux until very recently
<pashencija[m]>Fine! I will double check it
<PotentialUser-13>KarlJoad noted, thank you
<pashencija[m]>cbaines: It was fixed with 0f646fc79a06c9857f5f28d5a1eebd09f2d17310 5 days ago
<pashencija[m]>Thank you very much!
<antipode>sneek: later tell cbains: I've written a few comments on the fibers streaming patch.
<sneek>Got it.
<antipode>The patch I mentioned is now sent as 56728
<andrzejku>I am trying to find if I installed app and I want to run this app as service
<andrzejku>but in userspace
<andrzejku>how can I do that?
<unmatched-paren>wdym by userspace
<unmatched-paren>userspace is everything that isn't part of the kernel
<unmatched-paren>every service runs in userspace
<unmatched-paren>If you mean 'not as root': take a look at `guix home`
<pashencija[m]>I am trying to pack my program that uses networkmanager-qt... (full message at
<pashencija[m]>Is not extra-cmake-modules enough to have FindKF5.cmake?
<pashencija[m]>I use (build-system qt-build-system)
<andrzejku>unmatched-paren: hmm
<andrzejku>unmatched-paren: this service actually has systemd rule
<andrzejku>but if it has herd rule I do not know
<unmatched-paren>andrzejku: you'll need to write a home-service for it, most likely
<unmatched-paren>what service is it?
<andrzejku>the nightmode for wayland
<unmatched-paren>No, we don't have a service for that.
<unmatched-paren>You'll need to write one yourself.
<andrzejku>do you have wiki?
<unmatched-paren>there aren't too many docs on guix home
<unmatched-paren>but there's docs on writing a system service
<unmatched-paren>which should easily be translatable into home services
*unmatched-paren away
<andrzejku>unmatched-paren: thank you
<KarlJoad>andrzejku: I had to go through the whole process of writing a Guix home service for emacs.
<KarlJoad>Is anyone here particularly familiar with the asdf-build-system?
<KarlJoad>andrzejku: You just need to be careful with Shepherd. It does not understand daemons that immediately fork off, which is why my emacs server uses `--fg-daemon`.
<andrzejku>KarlJoad: ok
<andrzejku>KarlJoad: but generally idea is that in /etc/config.scm I keep operation systema and base services
<andrzejku>and in guix home I have what may change more often
<andrzejku>I found this article
<KarlJoad>The way you define the service does not change if you have the service in a home environment or an os-one. I have user-specific things in my home environment. But your general idea is right.
<andrzejku>KarlJoad: ok thank you
*andrzejku away
<teythoon>I have used debtakeover to replace guix sd with debian bookworm
<teythoon>worked remarkably well
<teythoon>there was a bit of a funny moment when debtakeover decided to remove all symlinks pointing to directories from /var, killing all guix profiles
<singpolyma>teythoon: obligatory "there is no such thing a guix sd maybe you meant guix system"
<teythoon>thank you for that correction
<teythoon>also, please do go on to teach people that they want gcc-toolchain instead of gcc