<lilyp>civodul: as far as I can see it ought to be a couple of short fixes
<KarlJoad`>Has anyone ever had their bootloader "disappear" on Guix System?
<KarlJoad`>I use hot-swap bays on my desktop, and when I remove the Guix System drive, and boot from another, then go back to Guix, the Guix drive cannot be booted from. (The PC is shutoff when I switch them.)
<lilyp>style differs a little between system where it's a command and package where it's an option
<mekeor[m]>btw, this should be tidied up, imo. guix-cli shouldn't end up as a mess, like nix did
<PotentialUser-57>lilyp: thank you. that's a bit weird that the syntax is different but thanks for informing me
<PotentialUser-57>mekeor[m] yeah i'll probably forget it by tomorrow and then i'll be confused next time i need to use it again :D
<PotentialUser-57>by the way this might be unrelated so i dont know if im allowed to ask this but does someone know how i can stop xdg(?) from automatically recreating folders in my home folder that i dont want? I tried editing .config/user-dirs.dirs and set it to read only but it didnt stop it
<PotentialUser-57>Unrelated, so updating/upgrading the base/services is completely separate from updating/upgrading manually installed packages if I understand it correctly. Is it possible to add single packages to the config.scm and have the whole thing act as one? For the cases where that would be desirable i mean, which is not always
<mekeor[m]>imho, you don't need to feel bad if you tried to find a solution for your issue yourself first, e.g. by using a web search engine
<PotentialUser-57>mekeor[m]: thanks, yeah i tried something else first, someone said to delete the text in the file. I just commented it out instead. didn't work. set it to read only and still didnt work! but now it worked thanks to ur help :)
<PotentialUser-57>mekeor[m]: I guess there is one other completely random question, and that is if you know if there is a way to change the default search in icecat without having to install a plugin. Not talking about the bookmark/letter searches
<lilyp>I'm a little scared – how come my emacs-wide-int is already built on CI?
<nckx>Probably to late to be useful, but unmatched-paren: I have never used GDM on Guix.
<vagrantc>so, libxmlb accepted my proposal upstream to move xb-tool to bin (was in libexec) but hasn't yet released a version that supports it ... seems a smallish number of commits since the version in guix ... should i package the git version just to make guix's diffoscope coverage better? :)
<vagrantc>seems a bit of hassle to just pull the patch from libxmlb upstream, but that might work too...
<vagrantc>or i could hack the current libxmlb package to just install it in bin instead
<nckx>I'd say sure, some purists would prefer release + cherry patch. If you want to ingratiate yourself with them and it's not too much trouble...
<littlebobeep>does anyone know of an analysis or critique of snap packaging from a security perspective?
<mekeor[m]>lilyp: you worked on emacs-minimal, right? btw, did you know that --with-cairo is default since emacs 28.1 iirc? i.e. --without-cairo needs to be used explicitely. thus, iiuc, emacs-minimal should use --without-cairo config flag.
<mekeor[m]>lilyp: i don't wanna add a prop-input, i want to change the version of a prop-input
<KarlJoad`>I am running into an issue when developing Guix. I am trying to access a service-type I define in Guix itself, but when I test it on a file using that new service-type, I get an error with suggesion about importing the module, but I _did_ import it.
<KarlJoad`>I'm not quite sure I follow. In the example config, the service-type is instantiated using as a service in the list. Currently, the service-configuration is "defined" but is not used and does nothing.
<lilyp>are you sure service-configuration does nothing or are you just typing things wrong?
<KarlJoad`>I mean, I never use the configuration in the testing config, nor do I use it in any code in mail.scm.
<KarlJoad`>I removed the service-configuration code from mail.scm, ran `make` and then ran `./pre-inst-env guix home build /tmp/test.scm`, and it still fails with the same error about home-msmtp-service-type being an unbound variable.
<lilyp>because you're doing the exact opposite of what you ought have done
<kitty1>1. more accessible and thourough documentation ; maybe even some video series
<kitty1>2. just some actual resources put into it and get someone working on it full time
<kitty1>and always having at least a couple people full time on it with no major gaps
<kitty1>on the first point ; they really need to take a lot from guix on that because like
<kitty1>usually guix isn't the worst if I want information about it even if im not using guix (which, I am, but I digress) meanwhile from the outside I literally don't know how to get a lot of semi-accurate information on hurd.
<kitty1>some effort really needs to be put into just building something simple and relatively portable up from scratch akin to plan9 only taking whatever new developments have been had since then, and just really, really, focusing on making it understandable and documented
<the_tubular>it's kind of nice to see it popping up again. it's a neat idea, but i seriously doubt it'll ever fly. i'd love to be wrong, though, yeap this is also how I feel
<bjc>it's more than just the kernel. another major component is libc, and freebsd doesn't use glibc
<kitty1>kinda counter productive to go for the most bloated and least elegant system you can find, when a major part about free software should be understandability and documentation (which, I don't think is enough of a priority for a lot of people sadly)
<PotentialUser-57>Is "hash guix" really necessary and what does it really do? The first time the manual tells you to update your system it tells you to use "guix pull" and then "guix sudo guix reconfigure /etc/config.scm". The second time it tells you how to update it says do "guix pull", then "guix hash", then "guix upgrade". Or maybe the first is for the base
<PotentialUser-57>system and services or what you call them, and the second is for user installed packages?
<cbaines>I'm guessing it says to run hash guix, rather than guix hash
<cbaines>the first time you run guix pull, you'll be using the guix binary available to all users on the system
<cbaines>once you've run guix pull, you probably want to switch to using that guix
<PotentialUser-57>cbaines, it switches the guix program itself for the latest one you just downloaded with guix pull?
<cbaines>not really, do you know how the $PATH works in bash/shells?
<PotentialUser-57>it makes your terminal point to the latest guix version instead of the old one? I have a little understanding of $PATH, I've changed such paths a couple of times but I don't understand it on a deeper level
<m4rk>I'm trying use PC with only free software, and I want to install Guix, but it requires linux-libre. What it is the best NVIDIA GPU for nouveau? I prefer NVIDIA over Intel by perfomance and over AMD because AMD requires blobs
<PotentialUser-57>m4rk: you have to go back really far. I think like 200 series if you want it to be able to run, and like 9000 series if you want to actually be able to use your graphics cards performance. Nouveau website goes into it
<PotentialUser-57>if you do a search of "nv40" and so on you can find what graphics cards are included in that
<PotentialUser-57>last time i looked there was something about how all newer cards downthrottle to like 5% of performance and there is no way to stop it. I dunno if that has been improved or not, maybe it has
<m4rk>kepler series isn't best for nouveau? 780 ti or titan x black I think. I asked here because I don't know where ask: #nouveau there aren't answers even asking it. I wanted it for D16 motherboard (amd64 mobo with libreboot)
<m4rk>currently I'm using x200 laptop for libreboot, but I'm searching a good desktop environment (D16 is good desktop environment, but I need GPU, I have a lot of screens, so, I need good GPU)
<PotentialUser-57>m4rk yeah my information might be outdated. but be aware of the downthrottle issue and do some research on it before you buy a graphics card. if you actually need the gpu for 3d rendering or gaming or whatnot
<m4rk>I want the best GPU what works with only free software (except vBIOS, it doesn't look possible overwriting it with free software yet)
<PotentialUser-57>yeah ure probably going to have to use whatever came on it from the factory
<m4rk>I knew about downthrottle. GPU kepler series have this problem with nouveau, but I prefer that respect to propietary driver (NVIDIA driver) or blobs (AMD driver)
<PotentialUser-57>if you're fine with the lack of peformance then kepler is a good choice probably
<PotentialUser-57>if i remember correctly, kepler is indeed the last generation of cards that require neither a nonfree driver nor nonfree firmware
<littlebobeep>Etymology unknown. Attested US 1901, presented as pidgin English by a Native American. Possibly a calque of Cantonese 好耐冇見, comparable to no can do or chop-chop – if so, most likely US Chinatown origin, alternatively British Far East such as Hong Kong. Alternatively, native American origin, or native coinage as pidgin, particularly in cinematic portrayals of native Americans; compare language
<mekeor[m]>a little off-topic, but talking about rms, i think it's very bad that he came back to fsf because he has very bad opinions on sex and sexualized violence (on children). i like copyleft and all but rms being one of the leaders of gnu and guix being part of this organization is a downside of guix for me
<patched[m]>At this point I think any discussion about rms' personal views acts as a distraction and splinters our movement. rms is not gnu.
<lilyp>As patched[m] says, GNU is an ideological movement, not a personality cult.
<PotentialUser-57>RMS being part of FSF is a big upside to me, I don't think there is anyone else as stedfast as him, I don't think there is someone else that could fill his shoes
<littlebobeep>mekeor[m]: rms wrote later they think sex with children is wrong you can read the website
<littlebobeep>as far as GNU being an ideological movement, rms makes an absolutely excellent part of it, having founded the project and inventing copyleft and setting the standard for software freedoms that still matter today
<PotentialUser-96>hi! is there a way to "use" a tree of modules? For example (use-module-tree '((guix (gexp utils)) (gnu (man texinfo))))
<PotentialUser-57>Although I think his ideas about sex and covid and vaccines are utterly insane I dont think its relevant to his advocacy for free software at all
<mekeor[m]>patched: well rms is one of the leaders of fsf, which hold the copyright of all gnu code
<jlicht>mekeor[m]: Not true in a general sense: I did not assign any of my guix-related copyright to neither GNU nor FSF/RMS
<PotentialUser-57>i already said ok, im not bringing it up further but then you spoke in a derogatory fashion to me for no reason
<nckx>You imagined that. I didn't use either suffix.
<jlicht>now for a technical q: the sources for our java-slf4j-api package seem to have been deleted (and that entire way of getting sources removed entirely): something similar (but not identical) can be downloaded from their git-repo; what do?
<efraim>now I get incompatable libraries for efivar and popt, so I'm missing a flag for efibootmgr
<PotentialUser-96>mekeor[m]: do you have links with quotes that support your perception of rms's views? (sry/ I know this is off-topic, but mekeor isn't in #guix-offtopic and I can't send private messages)
<efraim>ok, now I have efibootmgr and efibootmgr targeting aarch64 both building and targeting the correct libraries
<toangladius>alright maximed - here's the thing. I'm trying to `guix system reconfigure`, but I end up with a build error on `webkitgtk-with-libsoup`. apparently this is a dependency of `lvci-gnome-shell` and `evolution-data-server`. I checked the log and I only see `Error .size expression for something something does not evaluate to a constant`. I'm not sure
<toangladius>what to do about this, I would gladly remove both packages that depend on this but I have no idea how.
<maximed>toaangladius: The build error in webkitgtk-with-libsoup is a bug (independent of guix system reconfigure)
<Zelphir>I am using `guix shell` to run Emacs. I want to make a reproducible guide to getting org source blocks of Scheme code to work with GNU Guile. To do that, I would like to clear up anything created by the call to `guix shell`. I have tried using `guix gc`, but that does not seem to clean up everything. What command should I use to delete everything created by `guix shell ...`?
<maximed>tangladius: question, what does "guix --version" output?
<toangladius>maximus: i'm running in a wm so I can't easily copy but I'll transcribe the relevant parts, first gets me `guix (GNU Guix) 0, copyright 2022` and then license, the other `/home/me/.config/guix/current/bin/guix`
<maximed>Zelphir: you can leave "guix shell" session with control-D or restarting the terminal or whatever you use
<maximed>toangladius: ok looks reasonable (it eliminates the ‘forgot to guix pull after an install’ potential cause)
<maximed>toangladius: Could you run "guix build webkitgtk-with-libsoup2 --no-grafts", it will probably fail again, in the last few lines there should be a ‘log file at /var/log/...SOMEWHERE.gz’ message or so.
<maximed>Make a copy of that log file and send it to firstname.lastname@example.org.
<Zelphir>maximed: The command I run specifically already exits the shell, when Emacs is closed: `guix time-machine --channels="channels.scm" -- shell --cores=8 --check --pure --manifest="manifest.scm" -- emacs --no-init-file --no-site-file --no-site-lisp --no-splash --no-x-resources` But when I run it anew, I still see the same Emacs packages installed, inside Emacs (`list-pack`), that I installed manually. It is somehow not cleaned up. Perhaps the
<Zelphir>packages are put in a location, where guix does not remove things?
<toangladius>maximed: running it now. Either way, I'm assuming both `lvci-gnome-shell` and `evolution-data-server` are somewhere in either `%base-packages` or `%desktop-services`, do I just filter those or is there a more idiomatic way to go about things? I'll have to do this eventually anyway because if I'm planning to replace sudo with opendoas
<Zelphir>maximed: Yes, I would usually install the Emacs packages via installing guix packages in the manifest. However, in this case I want to exclude the possibility, that any bug might only be inside the guix package of an Emacs package (guile-geiser or geiser), to be able to report the bug to the author, for the original package. I feel installing the package via guix as well will move further from the author's usual setting, reducing the chances to
<nckx>bost: guix pull has the option to list new packages, including linux-libre. The ls you quote looks flawed to me: pulling alone won't build any kernels, so they won't appear in the store like that.
<nckx>Is there a single command to get a yes/no answer: not that I know. You could likely script something 'good enough' ('does uname -r appear in guix package -I?' or so).
<bost>nckx: That ls command shows me 11 bzImage files. And I don't remember building any kernel. What else than the `guix pull` builds the kernel? Hmm.
<Zelphir>How would I install a shell for usage inside a guix container? Simply add for example `sh` or `bash` to my `manifest.scm`? (geiser-guile or maybe geiser in general need a shell to run source blocks).
<mekeor[m]>PotentialUser-57: there might be other addons, too, i didn't check
<Zelphir>Thanks for all the help! Learned a few new things about running things in a container. I hope this makes a good report and maybe I can get my literate programming in Guile in Emacs working again.
<luishgh>hi guix, i was browsing the commit history and found "5f315e1d5f * gnu: emacs: Add support for socket activation.". i searched through the discussion on issues.guix.gnu.org but did't find an explanation of what this socket activation is. Could anyone explain it? Just asking for the sake of curiosity :D
<unmatched-paren>hmm, apparently glibc:debug is already included in gcc-toolchain anyway...
<shoshin>anyone around who can help me figure out how to use guix to install a new package to Emacs while it its running? everything works fine if i reboot emacs after installing the package, but i wasn't able to load it while Emacs was running
<mekeor[m]>pashencija: what exactly is not implemented?
<PotentialUser-57>Does anyone know why I keep getting the notice about GUIX_PROFILE environment thing? The manual says this should only appear if you install guix on another distro, but I'm using a full guix OS install and it shows up for me
***Xenguy_ is now known as Xenguy
<PotentialUser-57>I noticed gpg isn't installed and did a search for it. Plenty of packages. Which one is just regular gpg? gnupg?
<pashencija[m]><mekeor[m]> "pashencija: what exactly is..." <- MBR entries according to file system
<lilyp>PotentialUser-57: it shows up whenever you install something that causes an environment variable to change
<lilyp>after a while there should not be any new packages changing it bar some special exceptions (emacs for instace did that before we patched it not to)
<bdju>I wish manifests supported partial upgrades and that I could blacklist packages that take an insane amount of time to build like qtwebengine and only pull them in when there are substitutes
<bdju>how can I find out which package is making qtwebengine build? just skipping qtwebengine itself didn't work
<bdju>my updates ran all night and it was only 60% done building qtwebengine so I canceled it
<blake2b>just setup a remote build farm with cuirass and guix publish. gotta say, its one of the most straightforward/easy guix topics I've embarked on. imagined it would be more difficult tbh; thought I'd report because I remember during fossdem it sounded like a lot of folks haven't dug into it on their own yet
<jackhill>blake2b: that's great to hear! I think making such things approachable is important to our mission
<blake2b>jackhill: yeah I might do a cookbook entry on setting it up on linode if people would be interested in that.
<blake2b>its pretty amazing actually, you get mumi and the whole package and it only took me like an hour
<bdju>speaking of issues, getting a backtrace as of a recent update when trying to do a guix system reconfigure. it says a dir in guix/checkouts is not owned by current user. did a recursive chown and nothing changed. also it looked like it was all owned by my user
<euandreh>I'm having to source Bash completion files manually for packages installed via guix home, i.e. ". $HOME_ENVIRONMENT/profile/etc/bash_completion.d/*". Shouldn't this be dealt with by guix home somewhere?
<bdju>can/should I just deleted the guix checkout that "is not ownd by current user"?