***lukedashjr is now known as luke-jr
<rm_-rf>i thought i had ho use (service (dbus-service)) <rm_-rf>but it's just literally (dbus-servige) <rm_-rf>nope, system got bricked again :( <rm_-rf>All it says is 'System error' when i try to login <rm_-rf>and then displays the login prompt again <florhizome[m]>It’s easier to start with default and strip down from there ;) <rm_-rf>no vendor splash screen or anything :/ <rm_-rf>okay a no bootable device screen <rm_-rf>this has happened before, so i think my hardware is failing <rm_-rf>okay, apparently my computer thinks it's okay to spontaneously reenable secure boot??? <rm_-rf>and now it's changed the SATA type back to RST with Optane which caused the whole problem last time *M6piz7wk[m] > <@florhizom:matrix.org> „It’s the GNU system, pull up defenses!“ *M6piz7wk[m] makes a buzzing sounds immitating star trek shields <M6piz7wk[m]>meh problem of future krey the present one is too tired <M6piz7wk[m]>ideally from `guix build` so that i can define a cool workflow for it <M6piz7wk[m]>florhizome: aaaa stop giving me the silent treatment it hurts u.u <M6piz7wk[m]>... or probably AFK with openned matrix to make krey feel less lonely <roptat>it's normal on IRC/matrix that people don't answer immediately <vagrantc>M6piz7wk[m]: read up on "guix system init" <M6piz7wk[m]>roptat: since when! u.u everyone always responds to me immediately <roptat>also, it's very common that people just use a bouncer and are afk, reading messages later <roptat>M6piz7wk[m], please learn some patience, not getting an answer after 2 minutes is normal <M6piz7wk[m]>florhizome[m]: that's what the one true bandali would say right after magically thing that i needed happened *roptat is updating OCaml packages... 32 to go <roptat>also, I noticed two package have a source that doesn't exist anymore (thankfully saved on berlin). Should I update the package to change the source (without updating the package)? *M6piz7wk[m] realized that bandali works in GNU so it's likely that his super power spreads across multiple rooms, but he decided not to use it lightly in case the power needs refreshing after it's been used to keep it for hard times <mbakke>roptat: changing the source is good, if the file name does not change then it does not need to be rebuilt <roptat>I have to switch from url-fetch to git-fetch <mbakke>oh, OK. what happened to the original sources? <mbakke>6piz7wk: it's impolite to tag people without a good reason <roptat>it was on gforge.inria.fr, which is definitely offline <roptat>M6piz7wk[m], IRC doesn't have a protocol-level notion of tagging someone, most clients just assume if it sees your username in the text, someone is tagging you <jackhill>mbakke, roptat: I assume that we want to archive the original source somehow to get it into disarchive? I'm asking mostly to learn, not because I have advice for y'all, unfortunately :) <mbakke>6piz7wk: most IRC clients will show a notification if your nick is mentioned, some people may have additional scripts to forward such messages with urgency ... <roptat>M6piz7wk[m], no there was official communication by INRIA that it will be definitely offline since December 2020 <mbakke>jackhill: I don't know if disarchive supports tarballs yet <mbakke>roptat: that's a good reason to change the source indeed :) <M6piz7wk[m]>i guess i just found if there is a limit to the super power the hard way while feeling clueless for the unspecified amount of time <mbakke>what did you expect ban_dali to use their superpowers on exactly? <roptat>most projects switched to INRIA's gitlab now <M6piz7wk[m]>other then the city where everyone hugs me for some reason <roptat>if you try "guix build -S ocaml-cudf" you'll get a substitute from berlin <vagrantc>M6piz7wk[m]: your signal-to-noise ratio is getting a bit much ... <roptat>M6piz7wk[m], really, who cares? :) <vagrantc>M6piz7wk[m]: just maybe step back a bit and listen more and talk less? :) *M6piz7wk[m] added that sentence to his dictionary bcs it's a really good and diplomatic way to tell shut up to someone <samplet>For the record, Disarchive supports nearly all tarballs. It has more trouble with how they are compressed, though. Gzip is mostly okay; XZ support is on the way. <mbakke>samplet: that's great, thanks for the update <samplet>And when I say “on the way”, I mean I have working code – not just that I’m gonna work on it some day. :) <GNUtoo>hi, is there a way to know why a dependency is pulled in when doing guix system reconfigure ? <GNUtoo>I've zfs that is being pulled in and I don't see why (grepping in guix source code doesn't show why either) <M6piz7wk[m]><samplet> "For the record, Disarchive..." <- why though? Is it trying to optimize the compression of xz? <samplet>GNUtoo: For a package, you can use ‘guix graph --path’, but I’m not sure about a system. What do you mean by “being pulled in”? Is it getting downloaded or does it show up in ‘guix gc -R’ or ...? <samplet>M6piz7wk[m]: We have the uncompressed data, and we want to get the original, compressed data as distributed by the package author. Disarchive tries to store what it needs to recreate the compressed data without storing the whole package. <GNUtoo>Ah I've found how by reading the mailing list <GNUtoo>Basically gnome depends on the ZFS kernel module <GNUtoo>And beside all the huge issue that module brings, it doesn't even compile on i686 *GNUtoo assumed it was libvirt but it's gnome <samplet>I don’t see how GNOME depends on ZFS. At least ‘guix graph’ can’t figure it out. <samplet>Regarding the GDM shutdown issue on c-u-f, in the gnome-session build log, it says: “Session tracking: null backend”. I’m guessing that it needs to be tweaked to properly use elogind. <apteryx>samplet: I'm attempting to build gnome-shell 41 on top of my tested mutter 41 <apteryx>did you merge the patches for elogind already? <samplet>I have another on the way for gnome-shell. <samplet>Same problem as polkit: regression in configuring elogind. <samplet>I lifted a patch from the fine Gentoo folks who also support elogind. :) <samplet>Nice work with mutter, by the way. That’s some pretty serious dedication to get the tests running! <apteryx>yeah, not sure how much that's laudable, or laughable, given the effort/reward ratio, eh. <apteryx>but it did catch a few things I had overseen in enabling EGL support; not sure how Wayland could work without this before, at least in GNOME? <apteryx>I've read that Wayland goes through EGL <samplet>It definitely worked, though. Not with GDM, but it’s been possible to launch GNOME on Wayland from the console for years. <samplet>Also, I think your technique may apply to some other packages. I’m pretty sure polkit does mocked D-Bus tests, for instance. <samplet>Also, I think “laudable or laughable, given the effort/reward ratio” could be the official Guix motto! :) <vagrantc>having a hard time fixing typos of tryton packages ... partly because it's hard to understand the descriptions as they are <fcw>Which is the appropriate mailing list for asking questions when getting stuck when packaging software? guix-devel or help-guix? <jackhill>but it is a tricky question with Guix since we try to blur the line for who is and isn't a developer, but if you hope to get your package included in guix, then -devel@ seems very appropriate. <fcw>jackhill: Yeah, I noticed some packaging questions in help-guix. <fcw>I will use guix-devel then. Thanks. <apteryx>uh, attempting to pass python-gobject to gtk@4.4: ImportError: Typelib file for namespace 'Graphene', version '1.0' not found <apteryx>seems to be happy after throwing python-graphene to the mix. propagation problem? <podiki[m]>there were some bumps and fixes to python-graphene at least *apteryx punts on gtk 4.4 *apteryx is hosting a freely accessible jami rendezvous point for people who'd like to collaborate in realtime on things; to reach it, simply call the 'rdv-jami-guix' service point. <apteryx>perhaps useful for our next core-updates-frozen hackaton! <jackhill>apteryx: neat! I've been wanting to use Jami for something, but it's not something one can do on their own <podiki[m]>I've never tried jami, I'll have to check it out <podiki[m]>(in the middle of letting my computer build everything I have installed, nicely timed when there are like no subs....at least libreoffice and icecat finished already) <apteryx>so the CI's fruits won't be reaped until it's done, which has been taking multiple hours recently :-( <apteryx>hopefully civodul's recent patch will bring in back down nicely <apteryx>I wish we'd find a way to fix the annoying "Errors from xkbcomp are not fatal to the X server" xorg/xkbcomp errors <apteryx>that we see in test suites using xorg <podiki[m]>although hangs for a long time after doing a substitute check (after building a ton of stuff, when it rechecks I guess), odd <TheOwlLady>is it a good idea to install the QEMU image on a VPS <TheOwlLady>I saw that it was labled as live and wanted to make sure <vagrantc>the QEMU image is meant to be run inside a virtual machine... if the VPS allows you to just dump an image into a disk, it *might* work <fcw>TheOwlLady: Where does it say that the image is "labeled as live"? <lilyp>Christoph[m]: IIUC this order is fixed by the build system, so everything ought to be deterministic <lilyp>Even with parallel build, which could still cause some bits to change if something insane happens <vivien>Hello guix :) Hello apteryx, I’d like to check if my jami is working. Are you still running your rendez-vous point? You appear offline to me. <jpoiret>great, sway wants you to add an env variable to let it launch with software rendering, so testing GDM -> sway in qemu has become more complicated now :( <rekado>apteryx: did you start this on milano? <vivien>rekado, are you trying to access it too? <rekado>python-scikit-learn is broken on c-u-f *rekado updates it to 1.0.1 <rekado>annoyingly this builds with numpy and is used by packages that also need numba, which uses the older numpy <rekado>I wonder if we could work around this by letting Python know that numpy 1.20 is not equivalent to numpy 1.21 <rekado>i.e. we install numpy 1.20 under a different name <rekado>and then have numba “import our-renamed-numpy” instead of “import numpy”. <lilyp>Can we implement pages/infinite scroll in mumi? <rekado>infinite scroll needs JS, and I don’t know how to gracefully fall back to non-JS because then the server needs to prepare the whole page instead of just a chunk. <rekado>so I guess there need to be pages first, and then JS can be used to replace them with infinite scroll <rekado>on long issue discussion you already need to scroll infinitely to get to the bottom… :) <rekado>or do you mean for result pages? <rekado>in any case: “we” would need to exclude me, I’m afraid <rekado>gah, scikit-learn has lots of test failures… this will take a while <lilyp>i.e. you get the newest first, but you can scroll up to 30000 if you want to <lilyp>we currently have no way (other than specifically requesting bug ids) to get the headline of a barely two week old bug <lilyp>specifically thinking about /recent here, not necessarily the landing page <rekado>pagination exists in xapian, so you can get a limited set of results with an offset <rekado>“/recent” is arbitrarily limited to a fixed number of issues <rekado>all of these procedures would need to take an optional offset argument <rekado>implementing pagination should not be too difficult. We’ve got all the ingredients. <jpoiret>is there any responsible disclosure process/are there any maintainers on oss-security or linux-distro openwall mailing lists? <roptat>there's guix-security@gnu.org, it's a private alias <roptat>I don't think any maintainer is on the linux-distro mailing list <jpoiret>mhmmmm, oss-security looks like a nightmare <jpoiret>just looked at the trojan source thread, bunch of people just replying with "this is not novel, i've seen this in an obscure post on this 2003 website, this is folklore, etc..." <avp>Hello Guixers. How can I get the list of files installed by a package in Guix? <vivien>avp, guix build <package> will print the location of the built package, and so you can just go around and ls <vivien>avp, the description of a package is in texinfo. Maybe there’s better format for 'gitlab-cli', such as @samp{gitlab-cli}? <avp>Thanks, I can write Texinfo indeed, just didn't realise that the description can parse it. <vivien>Is the 'autoreconf phase necessary? I thought the gnu-build-system could figure it out <avp>Not sure about that, I shamelessly copied this part from some other Guile-related package. <vivien>The guilesitedir substitution feels like kind of repetitive. Maybe you could use a for-each loop? (for-each (lambda (file) (substitute* file ...)) '("Makefile.in" "modules/gitlab/Makefile.in" ...) <roptat>avp, vivien even (susbtitute* '("Makefile.in" "modules/gitlab/Makefile.in" ...) ...) or maybe (substitute* (find-files "." "Makefile.in") ...) <avp>vivien: Thanks, I'll fix that. <vivien>Ah yes I didn’t realize you could put a list of files into substitute* <fcw>Why does "guix import pypi ..." produce package definitions that are not indented correctly? <jpoiret>sneek, later tell samplet: Just saw your gnome-shell patch, great! maybe we need to move away from gnome-shell/gdm as a default as its elogind integration is not great... I'll be looking into the greetd patches <Franciman>is there a news feed about Hurd support in guix? <jpoiret>how do I get a patchset from the issues.guix.gnu.org API? i wasn't subscribed yet and want to work on a patch <jpoiret>Franciman: the easiest I think would be to subscribe to the guix mailing lists and filter by Hurd, since apart from a few blog posts I don't think Hurd will have its own big guix pull news <jpoiret>someone was working on the updating the netdde drivers recently, it's not been pushed yet but see bug 51770 <lilyp>jpoiret: issue/51770/patch-set or issue/51770/patch-set/N <lilyp>the latter only seems to work if there's a v2 v3 etc. <jpoiret>hmmm, I ended up looking in mumi source code and used that very request but it doesn't seem to work for me <jpoiret>alas, I'll just work on something else :) <apteryx>neat, I could build my ~200 items manifest on core-updates-frozen <rekado>on my slightly older c-u-f I started jami-gnome, which crashed when I switched to the “Media” tab. <rekado>I’m now rebuilding it on a slightly later c-u-f. <rekado>I’m going ahead with renaming every module of numpy 1.20 to numpyfornumba *apteryx pushes mutter and gnome-shell 41 <apteryx>most of the big rebuild was already done manually on berlin <remimimimi>I'm using Circe version 2.11-cd206ad with GNU Emacs 28.0.60 (of 2021-11-20) <lilyp>jpoiret: missing the leading issue/ <jlicht>rekado: would rebranding numpy 1.21 as python-numpy-next be workable solution? I doubt that there is much utility in offering a slightly more recent numpy by default over all the potential pain that you mentioned in your mail :/ <jlicht>* and then packaging numpy 1.20 as the 'default', naturally <jlicht>Then we have defaults that work, and an easy escape hatch for folks who know what they are doing <rekado>jlicht: I would like that, but on the other hand numba has had plenty of time to address this. <nckx>remimimimi: You'd invoke the xset command in your session initialisation script/settings, which is where it gets hairy, because those tend to differ between desktop environments. For example, in my case I would have put it in ~/.config/i3/config or .xsession which were run when I logged into X, but it really depends. <nckx>Regardless, it's a user setting that is not directly (or at least easily) configurable in your Guix system .scm. <nckx>Maybe someone will prove me wrong and I won't even mind. <civodul>by default (guix scripts substitutes) verify certificates and here the host name doesn't match <civodul>(because it uses the IP address instead of "ci.guix.gnu.org") <KE0VVT>Told #fedora I'm disabling SELinux. Time to run. <KE0VVT>I don't have time for this, when I just want Guix to work. <rekado>jlicht: but if I don’t succeed with the renaming this may be the best compromise. <rekado>KE0VVT: disable or set to permissive? <KE0VVT>rekado: Does it work with permissive? <KE0VVT>rekado: And how is that done? I only know SELinux as that annoying thing that keeps me from doing stuff. <nckx>civodul: What is localhost:8881 here? Your SSH tunnel? <rekado>found another potential problem: numpy tests the CPU features and adds all sorts of compiler flags that make it not reproducible <rekado>like AVX512F, AVX2, -msse4.2, etc <rekado>so I’m guessing that anything using numpy that we’ve built on the more recent CPUs behind ci.guix.gnu.org simply won’t work on slightly older hardware <jlicht>How do folks with numpy-in-CI-pipelines deal with that? This seems like it should be a problem with an existing solution somewhere <rekado>(such as the MDC cluster nodes, or our laptops) <jlicht>FWIW, I was able to use master's numpy over the last year on both my T400 and my super fancypants new work laptop <jlicht>with substitutes enabled on both machines, I should add <nckx>civodul: I'm not sure I'm sure (…) what's going on here. Where does 141.80.167.131 come from, because it's certainly not the ci.guix.gnu.org A record. <KE0VVT>Find says the policy file is in "/gnu/store/0iii8i1lc4wg3wccs1db7y7d8lg80i04-guix-1.3.0/share/selinux/guix-daemon.cil". Is this not an acceptable file to use? <rekado>jlicht: maybe it’s not a problem. Numpy’s build system separately reports these features as “CPU baseline” (SSE SSE2 SSE3) and “CPU dispatch” (SSSE3 SSE41 POPCNT SSE42 AVX F16C FMA3 AVX2 AVX512F AVX512CD AVX512_KNL AVX512_KNM AVX512_SKX AVX512_CLX AVX512_CNL AVX512_ICL). <nckx>Looking at… stuff… output, I guess it's the internal IP of berlin. <rekado>nckx: yes, that’s the internal IP <rekado>we’re using that IP from the build nodes because they can’t access ci.guix.gnu.org due to firewall shenanigans. <nckx>Since IP address + LE TLS is simply not a possibility in the forseeable future, let's just disable the redirect on any empty or IP-address Host: <rekado>jlicht: so perhaps it just builds modules that can be picked at runtime. <nckx>rekado: OK, makes sense, for firewall values of sense. <rekado>jlicht: but it seems to me that this would make the build irreproducible as fewer or more modules are built depending on the build node CPU. <florhizome[m]>Can I automatically mount my cloud fs with davfs in guix via the filesystem description or would that need more support code? <rekado>drakonis: no discussion of Guix without using the term “religious”. HN won’t ever change. <nckx>florhizome[m]: There is currently zero support for mounting fake file systems using ‘mount helpers’. <nckx>florhizome[m]: You can invoke it yourself in a one-shot service, or write a slightly better service that tracks the mount status, or extend the mount code to support it for real. ☺ <nckx>All those would be ‘automated’. <nckx>HN is a cult, it is only natural that they distrust religion. <nckx>I don't know what a home-shepherd service is. <nckx>I guess guix home-related. Haven't used it. <nckx>I used davfs exactly once, I don't remember if it required sudo. <nckx>florhizome[m]: mount.davfs I guess. <drakonis>when is linux libre getting axed on grounds of being heinously insecure? <florhizome[m]>What people need to understand/communicate better is that guix is a package manager first. <nckx>(It's fine but sure, this is ‘expected’ to be a transparent back-end: you're ‘expected’ to run ‘mount -t foo’, although that will simply invoke ‘mount.foo’ anyway. Invoking it manually will always work.) <KE0VVT>rekado: So, the ".cil" file in "/gnu/" did not work. <florhizome[m]>Basically the functionality comes from the davfs Daemon you say <rekado>KE0VVT: no surprise there. Look at when it was written. <drakonis>florhizome[m]: i think guix as a project has to communicate that it won't bow down to the bad design choices from being a gnu distro <rekado>the SELinux base policy of Fedora keeps changing. So you can’t use an application policy that was written several major versions back. <drakonis>maybe make it a gnu project but not a gnu distro <rekado>florhizome[m]: *is* it a package manager first? <florhizome[m]>And that it’s not dependent on the os. Guix/nix are very different then Debian or arch. <rekado>it does a whole bunch of things that are far removed from what the term “package manager” traditionally describes. <florhizome[m]>rekado: Since you can use it on other operating systems, I would say yes. <florhizome[m]>Imho guix os is guix as package Manager plus shepherd weaved together <drakonis>being a gnu distro tacks on restrictions that guix does not need <nckx>What does ‘need’ even mean there. <nckx>I think that's meaningless. <nckx>Shipping only Free software tacks on ‘restrictions’ that Guix does not ‘need’. 🤷 Still a good thing. <florhizome[m]>The benefit of guix in the first place is having a powerful, advanced tool to manage the software you need imo. <nckx>civodul: Should be fixed. <KE0VVT>drakonis: You don't see Fedora users asking Fedora to change its policy about free software to play MP4. <KE0VVT>drakonis: Yes, but their software distribution rules are also quite restrictive, compared to many distros. <jlicht>and as always, the productive conclusion would be to write to $EVIL_CORP to free their software (and/or patents) :D <KE0VVT>drakonis: Even more restrictive in many cases than GNU FSDG. <nckx>I don't understand why the kernel would get special treatment either. <florhizome[m]>nckx: It’s a different thing when you can make a channel anytime to provide other software imo. <nckx>Works fine, go nuts, just don't use our resources to promote/support it. <KE0VVT>It's healthier to keep software in separate repos and keep the defaults minimal. <KE0VVT>It is much harder to clean up a large repo. <KE0VVT>They had to entirely remove PyPI because it was too liberal. <nckx>civodul, rekado, presumably ☺ ☝ should this be merged? <nckx>KE0VVT: HN apparently, above. I don't read it myself. <KE0VVT>I would respond “Editor bless you.” <drakonis>nckx: maybe the problem here is that nix users have issues with including new repos <drakonis>and the repo that provides the packages in question is a poorly kept secret <KE0VVT>I have not tried adding the Devil's repo, but I'm sure it would not be hard. <nckx>No need to allude. You can talk about vim freely here. <nckx>But no, it's not. I don't know if it's official policy but Guix has never been about adding artificial hurdles to using/extending your system however you want to. Some GNU distributions have this reputation (I have no idea if it's deserved) and it rubs off on us. <rekado>nckx: why does it take up to 10s to connect? <nckx>I don't know, that hunk's not mine. <nckx>There are a few uncommitted changes which should probably be documented with a nice commit message (no, wait: comment). <rekado>it contradicts the committed comment above. <rekado>so I think it’s fair to throw it out. <nckx>So it smells like ‘quick debugging test’ but I don't want to plunge the CI into darkness twice in one day. <jlicht>nckx: Thanks for looking into the 'integer expected in stream' thing! I really appreciate your help <drakonis>nckx: the artificial hurdles have been a thorn on guix's sode <jlicht>drakonis: the 'hurdles' are its reason for being started in the first place! :-) <nckx>My point was that I don't think there are any, so I think we have a different view of things, or different meaning of the word. <nckx>jlicht: Did you find anything more? <jlicht>nckx: I found an older issue that seems to confirm what you alluded to: an overflow of some integer that is supposed to hold some size <nckx>YES! That is what I was referring to, thank you! <nckx>I don't know if it's related but thanks for finding it. <jlicht>nckx: thank you for being motivated to help fix my problems instead! :) <rekado>are we calling “libre by default with super easy way to use any other package via channels” “artificial hurdle” now? *rekado has to go with the times <nckx>It didn't log me into Google during the installation process [CRITICAL] <nckx>Sorry, drakonis, that was not at all related to (or mocking) your original message. <nckx>Please do explain ‘the artificial hurdles have been a thorn on guix's sode’ though because, uhm, huh. <drakonis>rekado: well idk, it isn't a hurdle to me <drakonis>it's that people dont really know about how easy it is <drakonis>so folks end treating it like it is harder than it is in reality <nckx>Oh, you're talking about others (‘new users’), not you? *nckx .oO I cannot remember seeing a PotentialUser in a very long time. Does the Web chat not work? Or maybe I'm just not around enough, mea ultima culpa. <nckx>Error Connecting (Error: xhr poll error) <drakonis>maybe people have chosen names when connecting? <nckx>No, it's us (or us + Firefox 93 at least). XHR is one of those XSS thingies right? <KE0VVT>Don't ship proprietary stuff, but don't ship blacklists either. <nckx>We don't go into other channels to tell people how bad they are for using other channels, but nor do we volunteer for their benefit (we are quite understaffed as it is, y'all know it's true). <nckx>Which I guess is the social equivalent. <KE0VVT>Makes me want to install Guix System. *KE0VVT gets a spare disk. <nckx>😃 I am humbled by your tenacity TBQH. <paladhammika>hey guix, when attempting to use cargo build I get the below errow <paladhammika>"error occurred: Failed to find tool. Is `cc` installed?" <paladhammika>what `cc`? i have gcc and gcc-toolchain already installed. <roptat>paladhammika, gcc doesn't provide a cc symlink <roptat>so you have to somehow make the build understand you want to use gcc instead of cc <roptat>and since I am clueless about rust, I won't be of any help beyond that point :/ <jlicht>paladhammika: try "CC=gcc cargo <whatever>"; does that make a difference? <roptat>paladhammika, cc is usually a symlink to a C compiler that's set up by the package manager, but we don't assume you'll use gcc, so we don't provide one <roptat>no it's not non-free, it's just a symlink ^^ <roptat>is there a way to sign the last N commits in git? I've always used rebase for that, but is there a better way? <roptat>(I mean better that rebase, edit all commits, --amend -S them and rebase --continue for each commit) <drakonis>paladhammika: cc is a symlink or an envvar on distros <remimimimi>Is there some way to find dependencies on the required dynamic libraries of a binary file? <remimimimi>Btw just want download alpha version of blender. <KE0VVT>rekado: How do I make "setenforce 0" permanent? <KE0VVT>M6piz7wk[m]: Tor was made by the U.S. Navy. <civodul>nckx: thanks for fixing the nginx thingie! <civodul>and yes, we can merge the nginx timeout changes, though maybe a bit less than 10s? <nckx>civodul: How do you select the builds to restart though? <civodul>mothacehe did that in the hope it would mitigate problems we had earlier <nckx>So they're still needed? OK. ***lukedashjr is now known as luke-jr
<kaelyn>Is there a way to change the subject line of an already-mailed patch? I sent out https://issues.guix.gnu.org/51957 for the core-updates-frozen sprint on Thursday, but forgot to adjust the subject to say it was for c-u-f before emailing it. <kaelyn>(It fixes the build of xfce-weather-plugin on c-u-f by explicitly using libsoup2) <nckx>kaelyn: Send ‘retitle NUMBER The new subject line’ as the body to control at debbugs dot gnu dot org. <rekado>kaelyn: that patch looks good to me. I’ll apply it when I catch a break with numpy. ***emacsen_ is now known as emacsen
<podiki[m]>in c-u-f news I rebuilt all my packages last night (the CI was GC-ing, and I was going to bed), all successful! except an emacs outside package I need to investigate (I think an xwidges/webkit thing) <podiki[m]>drakonis: yeah, I was catching up there. Lots of nix folks (nice), debate over cpu microcode in typical HN tangential fashion <podiki[m]>anyone here know a good way to stop setup.py from trying to compile some files (but don't want to delete them outright)? tried an exclude in packages but didn't work ***iyzsong- is now known as iyzsong
<podiki[m]>emacs pgtk is failing with "checking for webkit2gtk-4.0 >= 2.12... no" <podiki[m]>is this something with the webkit/libsoup changes? (webkitgtk is an input) <samplet>podiki[m]: WebKitGTK with libsoup 3 is “webkit2gtk-4.1” and with libsoup 2, “webkit2gtk-4.0”, so I would assume so. <sneek>samplet, you have 1 message! <sneek>samplet, jpoiret says: Just saw your gnome-shell patch, great! maybe we need to move away from gnome-shell/gdm as a default as its elogind integration is not great... I'll be looking into the greetd patches <podiki[m]>I'm confused about that versioning (as it is not in the name or version string) but I guess was a change from 4.0 to 4.1 with what libsoup version it uses? <podiki[m]>(I didn't quite follow the whole discussion here, though did have to make that change to some packages) <samplet>I don’t pretend to understand it. :) I guess that there must be some changes to the WebKitGTK API when switching libsoup from version 2 to 3. <podiki[m]>I compared on Arch where they label webkitgtk with a 4.1 explicitly (vs not) and libsoup vs libsoup3 <podiki[m]>guess it'll be a while before everything gets to libsoup3 <samplet>jpoiret: My guess is that many of the folks who currently use Guix would just as soon use something lighter than GDM to login to their Sway/i3/EXWM/hacked-together-in-Guile-this-morning desktop environments. :) <podiki[m]>maybe we could change the comment in our webkitgtk-with-libsoup2 to note that it isn't jsut for gnome-online-accounts but a handful of packages <jgart>How do rust releases get made in guix? For example, if I want to upgrade the rust version to the 2021 edition <jgart>What branch should I work on that? <podiki[m]>samplet: I agree with this, I sorta started a whole thing the other day with being confused over how mutter was pulled in by gdm (I don't use gnome) <samplet>jgart: I’m not an authority on Rust+Guix, but you could probably add a new Rust on the master branch. If you wanted to use that Rust to compile, say, librsvg, it would have to go to core-updates. <nckx>Nailed it, although it's somewhat recursive: if you use the new Rust to compile not the older librsvg (2.40) with a zillion dependents, but only the new one (2.50) with 4, that could go on master as well. <podiki[m]>yeah, could make the package available on main I think (rust-1.56 or whatever?) <nckx>guix install rust will get you a new, er, shiny… rust…? without rebuilding the world. <podiki[m]>okay, pretty sure webkit libsoup2 is the answer (configure passes), but I'll build both to be sure and submit a patch <podiki[m]>(surprised no emacs guixer complained yet, maybe all use vanilla?) <nckx>For extra speedy Guixing. <podiki[m]>should I make a separate patch to clarify the comment on webkitgtk-with-libsoup2? since it also is for anything that still wants webkitgtk-4.0 <nckx>I should probably try that out, being on Wayland 'n all. <nckx>podiki[m]: If it doesn't fit naturally in any other patch, yes. Although I personally use a lower bar for comment-only changes (e.g., I don't add comments to the changelog). <nckx>So you can fudge a bit harder than if it were code IMO. <nckx>podiki[m]: <X, smoother> Oh… interesting. <podiki[m]>so I have to change the inputs for emacs-xwidgests, emacs-next-pgtk (both webkit issue), but that should be 2 commits right? <podiki[m]>I can add the comment in one of the patches then, and link the upstream issue I mentioned for reference <nckx>If it's the same logical change fixing the same bug in both you can choose. <KE0VVT>I'm in a channel where someone said NixOS is better than Guix. <nckx>You can report them in #libera and request a K-Line. <podiki[m]>did you just let them push you around like that?? :-P <podiki[m]>okay, that fixes both emacsen (did I use that right?); will get a patch ready <jpoiret>lilyp: thanks, that totally got over my head! it works well (even got a v8, very useful) <KE0VVT>I tried to say Guix and Nix both have their advantages, and that Guix has the advantage of using a real programming language for its package definitions, rather than mixing Perl and shell and awk with Nix language. <jgart>samplet, nckx thanks for the insight <jpoiret>KE0VVT: tbh i think the advantage of guix is that it truly lets you do whatever you want with it. If you want to code guix home, you can do so pretty easily. If you want to do containers by itself, you can, etc... <jpoiret>also i saw the "guix is pretending not to be a fork of nix", they really haven't looked at guix beyond the homepage <nckx>It is well-established canon fact that civo dul forked the Nix(pkgs) repos on GitHub, then rewrote each Perl and Nix file in Guile, line by line. It took years. <nckx>He fell asleep on C++ day but who hasn't. <podiki[m]>you give credit where it is due for the origins, and no one will see past it <nckx>(How do you even claim that with a straight face?) <samplet>Once I understood gexps I understood why using Guile for Guix is pretty darn clever. I wasn’t even a Lisp person before falling in with you lot. <nckx>podiki[m]: And giving credit contradicts the ‘pretending not to be part’, so it still doesn't make sense. Weird. <podiki[m]>now you have seen the light! there's no turning back, sorry <jpoiret>"learning guile with guix" is a blog series i really want to write :) <podiki[m]>nckx: right. we're not good at pretending I guess <KE0VVT>I like how you can put code inside of data. <KE0VVT>And I can't wrap my head around the Nix language, personally. It's not a real language. <nckx>podiki[m]: We are less good at pretending to know a thing about something we know absolutely nothing about than some people, that is for sure. <podiki[m]>hahaha well put and the source of many disagreements in the world <nckx>KE0VVT: It was a fun training excercise in being forced to think a certain way, but it kind of ends there without the wide-open vista that a real language like Scheme (or Haskell, whatever) leaves you with. <M6piz7wk[m]>What is the magnitude of the outer angle of an Isosceles triangle at any of its vertices <KE0VVT>M6piz7wk[m]: Write some Lisp to compute the answer. <M6piz7wk[m]>i would if i knew how to determine the logic to generate the answer <nckx>You can literally use guix to calculate it (with -e). <nckx>Pointless, but hey, Guix. <KE0VVT>nckx: I like how the computer can still compute even if it does not boot. <M6piz7wk[m]>i like the idea and i shall put it as an answer to the homework for the teacher to be annoyed <KE0VVT>M6piz7wk[m]: I have to see that thread with the teacher reacting to all the (()) <nckx>Then they can log onto HN and complain about this weird package manager that is ruining their students' minds. *M6piz7wk[m] still has no idea how to figure out the angles <KE0VVT>nckx: It has horns for a reason. It's a Satanic package manager. <KE0VVT>Bent on filling students' minds with s-ex..ps <M6piz7wk[m]>KE0VVT: pretty sure he would just give me F and tell me to hug off :p they already hate me for my creative answers <niedzejkob[m]>6piz7wk: I don't think the problem is particularly well-defined <nckx>Oh did nobody tell you about the Michaelmas Guix finals, M6piz7wk[m]? I hope you studied. <M6piz7wk[m]>nckx: i am aware of them and my PhD work of merging cargo-make is following my studying plan! <nckx>M6piz7wk[m]: The problem is trivial if you have a tiny bit of info. If you don't, uh, it's meaningless? Or just write a programme that asks what you know. Which might be the point. <nckx>That we (well, I) don't know if you're 14 or 24 or 24 doesn't help narrow it down :) <KE0VVT>nckx: And generates a nice answer in TeX. ;-) <rekado>gah, the renaming of numpy takes such a long time… <nckx>M6piz7wk[m]: Just FYI, if you're seriously interested in using Guile for this (and cool on you if so), check out #guile, it has the #guilers, who are neat. <M6piz7wk[m]>ppl say that i am 12 mentally, but pretty sure they just say that to be mean >.> <nckx>s/24 or 24/24 or 34/ of course. <rekado>there’s one generated file that somehow injects “#include "numpy/arrayobject.h"” in the target file and I can’t figure out where that “numpy” comes from. <nckx>M6piz7wk[m]: If you're 10 it's a compliment. <KE0VVT>[Shakes fist] Those Scheming kids! <rekado>KE0VVT: renaming numpy 1.20 to numpyfornumba, so that numba can load numpyfornumba without forcing everything else to use this variant of numpy <podiki[m]>that might just about do it for my core-updates-frozen breakages, other than wine... <podiki[m]>but not sure the situation with i686 right now <podiki[m]>oh and python-nautilus (for syncthing-gtk).... <KE0VVT>I dream of a pure GTK Guilemacs with GNOME HIG in the GUI. <KE0VVT>podiki[m]: What is Syncthing GTK? <rekado>KE0VVT: robin on #guile probably has the clearest vision on how to get there. <podiki[m]>KE0VVT: a little tray thing for syncthing, shows the status, pops up a window with similar idea as the webinterface, has notifications <podiki[m]>I find it handy to know files are syncing and such, but you can just use syncthing's web interface for the same info of course <podiki[m]>(ugh, forgot the copyright line, but it is such a trivial patch...) <KE0VVT>podiki[m]: Ah… I don’t use system trays. <podiki[m]>you are probably better off, is no shortage of tweaking and getting to work right in general (not syncthing so much) <KE0VVT>podiki[m]: System trays clutter my tiny screen. <M6piz7wk[m]>btw. howddya install guix on system that doesn't have ethernet connection <nckx>‘ethernet’ being ‘Internet connectivity in general’? <ss2>why not dump it (install) into an hdd from a live Guix system? <rekado>take out the disk, put it in a system that *has* internet, install, put the disk back <nckx>M6piz7wk[m]: What do you actually need to do? *nckx reboots into emacs-pgtk-native-comp <nckx>‘package rfc2368 is deprecated’ still. <nckx>Not something I need to fix, rite? <roptat>civodul, but I have done some changes very recently in ocaml packages, so maybe related, though they all build on master now <roptat>maybe merging these changes to core-updates-frozen could help? <M6piz7wk[m]>ofc it woudn't be me if i didn't find a bug in libreoffice that got me to lose 5 min of work <M6piz7wk[m]><nckx> "6piz7wk: What do you actually..." <- figured it out! I just had to extend one line to declare that the relationship is a + b + c = 180 && c + d = 180 <M6piz7wk[m]>and then the remaining angle is 180 bcs together they do 360 *M6piz7wk[m] didn't expect that to be the answer for some reason <M6piz7wk[m]>yes i pasted from clipboard and it started to flicker and autosave until it crashed <nckx>And it can't auto-recover anything? *M6piz7wk[m] is in such a pain to rework that whole thing now <nckx>At least it will go a lot faster the second time. <M6piz7wk[m]>drakonis: i instinctively press ctrl+s on random intervals <nckx>Hourly back-ups are the best sleep therapy I ever invested in. <nckx>There's rclone that claims to be rsync for cloudy things but I've not tried it. <nckx>Why do we verify certificates at all? <M6piz7wk[m]>who even still uses certificates laughs from three relays <nckx>Those two things do not relate. <M6piz7wk[m]>they do? Two different methods of E2EE encryption? :p <M6piz7wk[m]>just one that actually works as encryption and the other just handing keys to random scummy company <civodul>nckx: yeah we prolly shouldn't verify them, but we do :-) <civodul>now, within the build farm, it's nice to be able to use http without TLS <M6piz7wk[m]>x.x it would be so hugging cool if guix had an onion service mirror for everything <civodul>apparently it was stuck on some machines <nckx>civodul: <it's nice to be able to use http without TLS> Yes, this is a feature. *M6piz7wk[m] realized that he can set up guix as mirror on gitea that deploys onion service and goes to set it up <nckx>Yeah, there's nothing stopping your from onionising guix publish. <vagrantc>http does have some alarming attacks that even self-signed certs mitigate <nckx>The guix substitute server. <M6piz7wk[m]>still would be cool if guix had onion service for this <nckx>You'd still get substitutes. *M6piz7wk[m] notes to investigate that <nckx>If the substitute server doesn't have a substitute, the client will of course fetch it from upstream, using git. But that applies equally to other sources including tarballs. *civodul is browsing ci.guix today :-) <roptat>civodul, yes, I'm actually attempting an update that should fix it <roptat>it might take another 10 hours before the package is built on my laptop ^^' <KE0VVT>On a foreign system, should I use "icedove" or "icedove-wayland"? I am using Wayland. <lilyp>probably icedove-wayland, but bear in mind that the wayland support will come from guix <lilyp>if you have mismatched wayland protocols between guix and your system, stuff might act up <podiki[m]>would be nice as currently the options are gdm (brings in gnome stuff), sddm (qt stuff), or slim (very old/abandoned?) <rekado>podiki[m]: yeah, I dropped the ball there. We need someone to look over the latest patch, discuss minor revisions and then go ahead and merge it. <rekado>still no success renaming numpy 1.20 <rekado>jlicht’s suggestion to use 1.20 by default becomes ever more appealing… <podiki[m]>rekado: no worries, was just searching since I thought I remember seeing a wip *vagrantc has used usb-ethernet adapters <nckx>I'm rewriting https://guix.gnu.org/en/contact/irc/. I'm surprised it links to a list with proprietary IRC clients. Although Free software is ridiculously dominant, which is nice :), I still think this is problematic. <nckx>That's a separate issue with separate issue eyes. <fiesh>after installing python-pynvim, I feel that `python3 -c 'import neovim'` should be working. it not working makes nvim's ":checkhealth" fail. am I misunderstanding something or is this a bug of the python-pynvim package? *M6piz7wk[m] does doggy ears and puppy eyes with nya sounds <Noisytoot>Why do we need two unofficial Matrix rooms when there's #guix:libera.chat? <M6piz7wk[m]>which is mostly dead and i have it added in the matrix space <nckx>M6piz7wk[m]: Can we flipping not. *vagrantc seconds nckx's request <nckx>This is going in a direction we have previously discussed. *M6piz7wk[m] is visibly confused *M6piz7wk[m] is even more confused <rekado>goooode night, ring ding ding ding! <M6piz7wk[m]>why does it suddenly feel like the time i went on party where everyone was high af and made no sense while doing weird noises x.x <M6piz7wk[m]>... and not responding to me most of the time with me being alone at the table with cola >.> <podiki[m]>I'm still failing at trying to exclude some files in setup.py (python-nautilus failure) <nckx>Such moments to think and to reflect can be valuable. <podiki[m]>yeah, I did, yet is not excluded, or i'm not doing it right (more likely) <M6piz7wk[m]>nckx: the result of reflection was to get high with them which is meh *M6piz7wk[m] goes to hide <Noisytoot>Maybe there should be an FSD category for IRC clients. <vivien>M6piz7wk[m], you’re way safer from covid here on IRC than on non-fun parties! <KE0VVT>Wait, you can’t really search “IRC” on the FSD and get results? That is nuts. <nckx>Noisytoot: Would they be open to adding & maintaining that? <nckx>KE0VVT: Not just clients AFAICT. <vivien>M6piz7wk[m], then I fail to understand what "everyone was high af". <nckx>You get a (Guix is guilty of this too) list with everything from weechat to python-my-cool-irc-library. *M6piz7wk[m] though that the only usable IRC clients are irssi, hexchat and that python thing <nckx>And the FSD search results are all ‘Simple IRC Client | (structured) | 1 KB (172 words) - 13:20, 30 September 2016’. <nckx>They're all structured! I guess that's good! <nckx>But it's not great to link users to. *M6piz7wk[m] notes to tell nick that he sucks at doing FSD iRC clients on another meeting~ <M6piz7wk[m]>Noisytoot: the guy who organizes the meetings that happen every friday? <vivien>The search is not great, I agree :( <M6piz7wk[m]>and who continuously fails at delivering me floss games -w- <nckx><notes to tell nick that he sucks at doing FSD iRC clients on another meeting> This is not OK. <M6piz7wk[m]>Noisytoot: he? ppl were referring to him as nick u.u <drakonis>nckx: maybe what we need here is package tagging <drakonis>so you can look up every package that provides some specific feature <M6piz7wk[m]>unless it's some secret code to tell krey to go away <Noisytoot>Maybe it's Matrix being terrible and translating 'craigt' to 'nick'. <florhizome[m]><podiki[m]> "would be nice as currently the..." <- the best option imo, greetd, is being abandoned since august. jpoiret said he might review after c–u–f sprint is done <podiki[m]>florhizome: good to know, will keep an eye on that too <vivien>Maybe we could just publish a Free Software Directory vocabulary and ask projects to implement it in their DOAP. <florhizome[m]>The cool thing is it also adds an option of a session without elogind <nckx>drakonis: To work that requires discipline and some effort. I'm… hesitant. <vivien>(ah here we go let’s recompile that icecat) <podiki[m]>icecat, the webkits, libreoffice....i do need the "free" heat though <vivien>I have 3 flavors of webkits: 2 gtks, and 1 qt <florhizome[m]>i guess I shouldn’t change my filesystem configuration via system reconfigure? <vivien>Well, that’s heat bringing you more software freedom, so it’s free :) <nckx>You can have some of my heat; hacking by the fire makes my fans unhappy at idle :-/ <rekado>python-umap-learn also explicitly requests numpy < 1.21 <rekado>can we agree to make 1.20 the default? <Noisytoot>Just remove anything where 'Software license' = 'Proprietary' <nckx>TBH it already did earlier. <nckx>Noisytoot: I want something we can link to but don't have to maintain. <nckx>Yes, this is a stupid detail and I wish I hadn't noticed but it's rather hard to unsee (or ignore) now. <jlicht>rekado: 1.20 is still pretty recent, so if folks _really_ need 1.21 + the kitchen sink, they can start sending in patches to numba & umap-learn ;) <florhizome[m]>The result was that /gnu/store ended up at /home/gnu/store and was not found so I couldn’t boot <rekado>jlicht, nckx Okay, I’ll go ahead and do the switcheroo <nckx>Why was that retired, exactly? <civodul>nckx: guix-web was different: it allowed you to install/remove software, etc. <civodul>so not something you'd host publicly <rekado>it could have been that user interface for those who don’t like to use Guix on the command line (or in Emacs). <civodul>apteryx: hi! is it not a problem to mix gnome-shell 41 when the rest of the stack is at version 40? <vivien>I noticed that at boot, I get: "/gnu/store/xxx-openresolv-3.12.0/sbin/resolvconf: line 824: mkdir: command not found <vivien>Failed to create needed directory /var/run/resolvconf <nckx>Wow, that is one very long sbin shell script. <nckx>Could you file a bug, vivien? (A patch is fine too if you insist!) <vivien>nckx, I’m planning to do that, but I didn’t want to lose the info in case my systems crashes to the ground ^^ <nckx>Straw poll to see if this is worth preparing a patch too: you're a journalist looking to hype up Guix 1.4 (we can dream!) but your puff piece is still missing a sick official Guix logo. You visit https://guix.gnu.org. Which drop-down item do you click? <nckx>vivien: blogs.guix.gnu.org. Boss. *rekado is journalist now <nckx>You were meant to say Media. <nckx>We should've rehearsed this. <rekado>I was going to, but then I thought it’s a gotcha <podiki[m]>I can only answer that I looked at about->graphics but only second <vivien>That’s what I would say too, but maybe the journalist is not fooled by this and wants to actually investigate <podiki[m]>i did try media first when I needed the logo the other day <nckx>OK, so this is intuitive to N > 0? That's more than I thought. <nckx>Oh, it's always your second choice. <rekado>I’ll admit that my impression of the menu bar there is negative. <nckx>M-hm. This won't fix that but I agree. <rekado>there are so many items there, and it gets worse once you realize that some are drop-downs <nckx>I think expanding them in mobile mode is probably a mistake too. <vivien>However I’m not a journalist (that’s what you call people using journalctl, right?) so my opinion does not really count. <nckx>Ignore the ‘journalist’ then. I just wanted to spice up the story. <nckx>‘Hey, you, Guix logo, now.’ <rekado>FWIW, my normal approach would have been to ignore the menu and right click on the logo in the left *jonsger is pretty happy that Guix has good, old boring /var/log/messages :) <rekado>hope it’s an SVG, then scale it to the desired size *rekado puts the hard disk in the shredder *nckx .oO Guix logo NFT when. <vivien>I mean, has the guix logo ever been that thing? <nckx>You are all mean for not playing along :( <nckx>I still have some 50-odd stickers with that thing on it. <rekado>what is it with the python-build-system and the check phase re-building native extensions? <nckx>Official old fart Guix stickers. <rekado>fewer than 50, actually. And I *still* overestimated my ability to litter. <nckx>A local political party here used it (I'm sure there was no relation) as their coalition logo during the last municipal elections. I'm still miffed I didn't snap a picture. <vivien>That’s so cute, openresolv has a bunch of tests to detect the init system and it even has an entry for guix :) <vagrantc>while i know it clutters things up, i really appreciate being able to easily find both the stable manual and the latest manual on the website ... similar for downloads <fiesh>is (service kernel-module-loader-service-type '("librem_ec_acpi")) supposed to suffice for loading this module (supposing the corresponding package librem-ec-acpi-linux-module is also listed for packages), or do I need to do something in addition since it's not working for me? <nckx>vagrantc: It occasionally confuses users, so a way to make that even more clear would be good, but I agree it's good. <nckx>‘Are you using the right manual?’ ‘Yes. The manual.’ <jonsger>fiesh: maybe you need it to load in the initrd part? <fiesh>jonsger: manually insmod'ding it works fine though, so it'd seem it wouldn't be necessary? <roptat>arg, I'm trying to update coq, and it's now split into coq-core, coq-stdlib and coq. coq-core contains binaries and the core library. stdlib contains the standard library (coq files) and coq is a stub that is only here for opam, to depend on stdlib and core <vivien>Noisytoot, Too bad that’s not the one indexed by duckduckgo (or bing) <nckx>It's apparently copyrightable, which is nice. <fiesh>(which would bring me to the next question: how to set values in /sys via guix's system configuration?) <roptat>coq-stdlib and coq install stuff to lib/ocaml/site-lib/coq, but programs from coq-core need to find that directory, via $COQLIB, which is defined with (separator #f). It's set in the build environment, but to the wrong store path <roptat>*** Error: coqdep: cannot find plugins directory for coqlib: /gnu/store/0rghkn3sw51y9n4q73yaygkp93nav82c-coq-8.14.0/lib/ocaml/site-lib/coq/ <roptat>(should be coq-stdlib-8.14.0, not coq-8.14.0) <fiesh>jonsger: I'll give it a shot, thank you <jonsger>so I guess you are trying to use Guix on Librem 13/14/15 <roptat>I can't hard-code the path to coq-stdlib in coq-core, because coq-stdlib depends on it 
