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<rekado_>derivations, for example, are pretty-printed with guix-derivation.el
<apfel>hm, yea, i moved .emacs.d out of the way and suddenly it does not work anymore. So it is something i installed. Thanks anyway
<rekado_>there’s also guix-pretty-print-buffer (part of guix-utils.el)
<apfel>probably a good moment to install my emacs packages via guix instead of the builtin package manager
<ixmpp>civodul: wip-ipfs-substitutes - what status did you leave this branch in? And is there a chance you might rebase it?
<ixmpp>I sent feelers on the mailing list and they were lovingly ignored
<ixmpp>If it's functional, i want to try using it. If not, i'd see if i can get it fuctional myself.
<char>hello, how does one make a dynamic library available for a package? I have it as an input, but when I build the package, it can't find the .so file.
<ixmpp>Im pessimistically assuming the latter, since if it was functional i dont know why you wouldnt merge it
<iskarian>char: you mean it is unable to find it at build time? And I presume you mean you have as an input a package whose output contains the .so, yes?
<char>yes and yes. when I enter the packages environment, the .so exists, but not in $LD_LIBRARY_PATH
<civodul>ixmpp: has all the details; there are some missing pieces
<civodul>the (guix ipfs) module was merged, but for other reasons
<ixmpp>Ha, i see
<ixmpp>Any hope of a rebase?
<civodul>not on my list right now, but anyone's welcome to give it a spin :-)
<iskarian>char: I could be wrong, but I think at build time you would want it in LIBRARY_PATH, not LD_LIBRARY_PATH
<iskarian>that is odd though; the build system should take care of that if one of your inputs' outputs contains "lib/*.so"
<char>iskarian: I think you are on to something because LIBRARY_PATH does contain the .so I'm looking for.
<iskarian>ah, then the most likely culprit is your package's build system doing something weird. You could try manually setting LD_LIBRARY_PATH before building
<iskarian>That should be rarely needed, though...
<wirez> pretty good results compared to google
<wirez>so after a day of reading im gonna try guix
<wirez>is it acceptable to make a proprietary for-profit site that runs on guix? always used mit/bsd
<wirez>i need atleast some regular income to buy food and stuff so i can put more time into FOSS
<pkill9>does anyone run guix on pinephone?
<pkill9>preferably as a system, but as a package manager is interesting also
<char>pkill9: someone has, but I haven't tried it yet. There was a reddit post about it.
<char>wirez: I'm not a lawyer, but I would think it is okay since if you were to distribute your proprietary site it would not include guix. It just happens to be running on it.
<wirez>pkill9: i wanna run guix on pinephone too. the reproducibility is a killer feature for power tuning!
<wirez>char: ty
<wirez>do ppl in the community frown on running proprietary/for-profit site?
<pkill9>also the atomic upgrades is a kliler feature like it is for laptop
<wirez>and build outsourcing
<wirez>you get a pinephone config made, power profile it, then make sure your pinephone only runs configs that you know are power efficient
<pkill9>that said i cancelled my pinephone order, it doesn't meet my needs
<wirez>no misconfig that causes some disk i/o in a loop that drains it slipping through
<wirez>what you getting instead?
<pkill9>nothing, i'm just gonna keep using my phone
<wirez>librem 5 is 6 month wait
<pkill9>which is a moto g 4g
<pkill9>with lineage with microg
<pkill9>do you have a pinephone wirez?
<char>wirez: I think it would be preferable to run a non-proprietary for-profit site if possible.
<char>iskarian: I believe the problem is that dlopen is not installed and I don't know what package it is a part of.
<char>iskarian: I think the problem is that I don't have dlopen installed and I don't know what package it is a part of.
<iskarian>char: is this dynamic library used to actually run the build process (or otherwise needs to actually be dynamically loaded by the build process), or is it supposed to be linked into the program?
<wirez>pkill9: no gonna order soon
<pkill9>i dunno whether I should get it as an expensive toy
<char>iskarian: I believe it is required at run time. so linked.
<wirez>if you buy it get the more expensive unit with more ram. 3GB
<pkill9>yea that's the only one that's in stock
<iskarian>char: then there's no reason to be messing with dlopen, etc. On Guix gcc's ld is wrapped so that "-Wl,-runpath=libdir" is added for each dynamic library you're linking against
<iskarian>so as long as it is provided as a -L argument to gcc in the build process, it *should* work
<char>iskarian: it is being used as a foreign library, so not gcc.
<ecbrown>hello, which guix package provides `lpr' ?
<iskarian>char: I'm not sure what you mean by foreign library. What is the build system?
<char>iskarian: asdf-build-system/sbcl
<drakonis>ecbrown: cups?
<ecbrown>drakonis: maybe i need to install that package and more than the service
<drakonis>apparently it is a printer command
<ecbrown>you are right
<ecbrown>i installed cups-service but not the package with lpr, lpq, etc
*ecbrown got a new postscript printer today
<char>ecbrown: does cups-minimal work?
<ecbrown>char: i didn't try the minimal package, its probably in there, too
<ecbrown>cool, thanks. printing from emacs for the first time in forever
<iskarian>char: unfortunately I know next to nothing about how asdf builds. So I'm not sure if there's a proper way... If you can bake-in the directory for the library, and directory load it with that, that would be preferable.
<iskarian>If it does use dlopen, and it produces an elf, and there is no built-in way to set the runpath, you can use `patchelf --set-rpath`
<iskarian>s/directory load/directly load/
<iskarian>ah, there's actually a convenience method AUGMENT-RPATH in (guix build rpath)
<iskarian>though I don't actually see it used anywhere in guix...
<char>I don't see that in the manual
<iskarian>nope, it's not. there's likely a better way to do this, then, but I haven't a clue what it is
<Guest52>Which DM and DE/WM would you recommend on Guix System. I currently use GDM+Gnome, but it's riddled with bugs and graphical glitches and I would like a more lightweight alternative.
<iskarian>I just run slim + xfce, nothing fancy :) there's still the occasional missing icon, though
<iskarian>I'm not sure how it is for running on actual hardware, though (like network support etc) -- it's just a VM
<ecbrown>Guest52: sddm + gnome (when local) + xfce (vnc)
<Guest52>iskarian: xfce is great. I might try slim too. Thanks for the suggestion.
<iskarian>KDE Plasma is beautiful but lightweight? hahahaha
<iskarian>Is there a better way to troubleshoot circular package dependencies than manual inspection...?
<Guest52>Is there a reason why lightdm hasn't been packaged yet?
<The_tubular>This is a very random question, but is there popular packages that rely on bash script ?
<The_tubular>I'm wondering about deleting bash from my system
<ecbrown>The_tubular: i think bash is the default shell
<The_tubular>I know it is
<The_tubular>Well, it's part of base-package
<ecbrown>i dont know, maybe you can chsh everything and get away with it
<ecbrown>imo bash is the best shell for guix, i have seen weird behaviors with zsh
<The_tubular>I'm surprised you didn't say Eshell :P
<ecbrown>dont replace bash
<ecbrown>just keep it and buy me a beer at the next guix conferecne
<The_tubular>I mean if bash isn't needed I don't see why I'd keep it
<ecbrown>well, if you can delete it from certain profiles and contexts go for it. i hestate to think what a bash-less gnu system looks like, unless you have ash or bourne or something
<ecbrown>(i mean, don't go for it, but whatever, save 130k if it is bothering you)
<The_tubular>What's the difference between guix pull and guix refresh ?
<MysteriousSilver>`guix refresh` updates the package definitions
<MysteriousSilver>`guix pull` also upgrades the guix tools and deploys it
<ecbrown>you can see what would be updated with guix pull, if you run guix refresh
<The_tubular>Got it, so if I run guix pull, I don't have to run guix refresh..!
<joch>Hi all, question. Where is the best place to define env variables like guix default $EDITOR on a foreign distro?
<ixmpp>Wow, guix builds so fast on guix
<ixmpp>It built like 200x slower on nix
<ixmpp>Nvm that was just the modules
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<MysteriousSilver>how do i run guix gc without deleting important packages like curl gcc etc?
***Server sets mode: +Ccntz
<tissevert>(but on the other hand, querying https://bordeaux… works again from my browser as I expected)
<MysteriousSilver>tissevert: i had a metered connection so i was wondering if it was able to not remove needed packages
<MysteriousSilver>but now that i am understand how a gc works, i feel that question was ill-phrased
<tissevert>so I dunno ? ^^' transient error ? cache issue ? both ?
<wirez>anyone using guix for serving high traffic sites? curious how stable and stuff it's been
<tissevert>raghavgururajan: thanks for the tip, your magic seemed to have solved it somehow
<tissevert>MysteriousSilver: not ill-phrased, but yeah, kind of wanting to know how you can hammer a nail with a screwdriver
<tissevert>but I think in the use-case of such a connection, you could indeed «pin» the needed packages to a gc root
<raghavgururajan>> ‎MysteriousSilver‎: how do i run guix gc without deleting important packages like curl gcc etc?
<raghavgururajan>guix gc doesn't add or remove package in your profile. It cleans up unused/dead store items. If curl is in your current default profile, it stays there even after `guix gc`.
<tissevert>although then anyway they'll have to be updated somehow…
<MysteriousSilver>but i am not aware which packages should be pinned
<raghavgururajan>> tissevert‎: raghavgururajan: thanks for the tip, your magic seemed to have solved it somehow
*raghavgururajan 's witchcraft worked 🤷‍♂️️
<raghavgururajan>> MysteriousSilver‎: but i am not aware which packages should be pinned
<raghavgururajan>Its your choice to have which packages in your profile. Any number of profiles can be created (
<MysteriousSilver>thanks raghavgururajan
<solene>is there some work to provide a recent Go version? It seems we are limited for many programs by the old Go available in packages
<Guest18>I'm new to Guix
<Guest18>What browser do you use?
<wirez>there's a degoogled chromium i hear
<wirez>raghavgururajan: guix users rely on magic for the system to work? that doesn't sound good
<Guest18>wirez: When you say "i hear" do you mean you don't use it?
<wirez>not on guix
<Guest18>So, you don't use a browser on Guix?
<MysteriousSilver>Guest18: icecat
<Guest18>Thank you
<tissevert>wirez: not all users, only me (and it wasn't my system, it was the substitutes server, so everything's fine ; )
<Guest18>I have just installed ungoogled-chromium and icecat
<raghavgururajan>wirez: It was a joke.
<Guest18>how do you start ungoogled-chromium? I don't know how to run it.
<raghavgururajan>Guest18: `chromium`
<raghavgururajan>in terminal
<Guest18>Got it. Thanks.
<tissevert>Guest18: or, if it's installed in your profile or your system before starting your desktop environment / window manager whatever you use for graphical session, there should be a .desktop file providing an entry in the launch menu you use
<Guest18>tissevert: Cannot find that. I use i3. But anyway, typing chromium in the launcher works.
<tissevert>yeah, welle i3 has a launcher more or less similar to dmenu or such stuff
<tissevert>that probably either look in your path or in the applications in share/
<tissevert>in any case, glad it works ! : )
<Guest18>Yes, I think I read it uses that dmenu thing.
<Guest18>Today is my second day with Guix
<tissevert>that's great ! how are you liking it so far ?
<Guest18>So far hoping that everything works, as I find it promising, but I don't know how mature it is or how difficult it is for a non expert person like me
<Guest18>I have a problem: my displayport connection to my second monitor is not recognised
<Guest18>It works ok with Trisquel, so I guess it should work with Guix
<Guest18>xrandr does not show my displayport connected second monitor, it only shows my own laptop screen
<tissevert>hmmm that's weird yeah
<tissevert>I'm totally non-expert too, and I've managed to use it for 4 months now : )
<tissevert>but I haven't had any issue with external monitors or anything
<Guest18>So, what is your opinion so far?
<Guest18>Is it your everyday desktop computer?
<tissevert>more or less : it's my work computer (PhD. Thesis because reproducibility and all that), so definitely everyday and clearly the machine I've spent most of my time on since february
<tissevert>but it's not yet on my personal machine, which I dearly miss (it's running an Arch variant at the moment)
<tissevert>my opinion so far is that it's really amazing to handle packages, and to provide your own exactly on the same level as «official» packages, which is great
<tissevert>it provides me with a great environment for haskell, python development
<tissevert>it really works for my needs
<tissevert>I still haven't had the time to understand what was wrong with ibus and to fix input methods which I need installed on a system to feel at home, and that's possibly the only reason why I haven't found two hours on a weekend to put it to my personal computer
<tissevert>but apart from that I really look forward to making the change for my own box
<Guest18>Thanks for sharing
<tissevert>and although I tend to separate strictly my professional and personal lives and not use the lab's laptop for personal projects, I noticed it was becoming harder and harder, because I'm starting to feel more comfortable on Guix
<tissevert>you're welcome : )
<Guest18>I'm not a developer, so I'm not sure if I'll stay. If things get very much difficult I will come back to easy Trisquel.
<tissevert>yeah, you'll see, there's always that possibility
<tissevert>personally I was surprised how little administration there was to do to keep the box clean
<tissevert>there are a couple new concepts to learn but they don't translate to a lot of things to do
<ecbrown>Guest18: there's no shame in using guix to provide packages where e.g. trisquel is a little stale
<ecbrown>i.e. one doesn't need to go all "devops"
<Guest18>That's good to read : )
<Guest18>I'm also interested in the container thing
<Guest18>I wanted to try docker, but I did not like the idea of blind trusting binaries
<ecbrown>imo guix stomps docker for that reason and others
<Guest18>If I manage to make myself comfortable in Guix, then one day I will investigate this container thing
<Guest18>What other reasons'
<ecbrown>Guest18: guix is a manifestation of the gnu vision of a scheme-orchestrated system
<ecbrown>there's some philosophy here in addition to technical features
<ecbrown>(i'm appealing to the reasons you may have chosen trisquel :-)
<ecbrown>on my to-do list is to investigate tarballs as a means to distribute packages (q.v. ludo's blog post)
<ecbrown>how low-tech is that? :-)
<ecbrown>^-- reference to Guest18's interest in containerization types
<tissevert>ecbrown: I so want to try that too and be able to distribute binaries for my programs
<rekado>I’ve tried that and it works well enough :)
<ecbrown>tissevert: would it basically to to rest many questions about dynamic/static linking?
<rekado>if you want to upgrade the package on the target system *often* tarballs aren’t great
<ecbrown>seems to be a point when i wouldn't care if its .a or .so
<ecbrown>rekado: o/
<rekado>ecbrown: the tarball includes everything the package needs. The difference between .a and .so is build time vs run time.
<tissevert>update ? no I'm speaking «binaries for people who can't understand how to properly use a computer and who won't upgrade their system anyway»
<tissevert>ecbrown: didn't understand your question, sorry
<ecbrown>my understanding is rekado is saying that a mega-tarball that changes frequently may be more time consuming than changing a little component
<tissevert>yeah, which is the point of having packages and a proper distribution
<ecbrown>tissevert: rekado answered it, no problem. my point was, whats the difference between a blob of *.so's and *.a's (dynamic/static linked libraries) if they are going to be stacked inside a self-contained tar
<tissevert>ahhhh ok : )
<rekado>the difference is that the blob of .so’s is needed at runtime and the .a files just take up space
<rekado>you only need them when building new stuff
<rekado>but then you would also need a toolchain
<rekado>so by themselves they are of no use in a self-contained tarball.
<apapsch>hello, I'm trying to make iptables schemeable and I'm stuck at this match error: firewall.scm:39:16: source expression failed to match any pattern in form (chain . action). Could you gurus help me see what I'm missing? the current source is here: and the failing test:
<apapsch>interestingly, this REPL snippet does work:
<ecbrown>Guest18: one of the biggest problems i run into on e.g. trisquel is that it is hard to try out packages (e.g. explore) and then have a system that doesn't have a bunch of garbage after install. also, i compile code a lot where i really want a pure environment and i'm not sure how to achieve that on systems in different stages
<ecbrown>for example, autoconf/automake on an "unrelated pacakge" will find packages and enable features on my debian laptop but not on the server
<ecbrown>cuz laptop has a bunch of gui stuff and server is "headless"
<apapsch>so in the end it was just a missing #:use-module (ice-9 match) d'oh!
<MysteriousSilver>Hello there, the guix manual mentions a command called `recsel`
<MysteriousSilver>`guix -s recsel` returns no results
<MysteriousSilver>what is the package called as?
<apapsch>MysteriousSilver: recutils
<MysteriousSilver>thank you!
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*ecbrown completes mvp packages for dalton, openmolcas, and now python-pyscf libxc xcfun libcint
<ecbrown>nice swathe of libre electronic structure theory programs
<zimoun>MysteriousSilver: the package name is recutils :-)
<wirez>ecbrown: ty for packaging
<mekeor>hello guix :)
<ecbrown>wirez: my pleasure (sort of lol) i posted issues on the projects' home pages hoping to find testers
<wirez>i havent started using guix yet but i hope to
<wirez>do you know if it runs on mac minis?
<wirez>intel cpu
<ecbrown>but you have to know that i find emacs on a console to be an adequate computing experience ;-)
<ecbrown>mac mini is a perfect headless server and linux-libre will probably give you what you want for that on this machine
<ecbrown>(though i bought a new nuc for this purpose, even though i have a ton of apple equipment each running guix system)
<wirez>can't wait to try guix im rock hard
<wirez>i use i3
<wirez>really minimal desktop, then ofc nothing on servers
<ecbrown>a beautiful wm
<wirez>ya but its follow mouse behavior is garbage
<wirez>big time bad
<ecbrown>what is a mouse?
<wirez>ya but i do stuff that needs mouse, so it's around
<ecbrown>for sure, just kidding
<wirez>i guess i could turn focus off
<wirez>i guess that would force me to not rely on the broken follow mouse behavior and use kb only
<wirez>ty for idea
<ecbrown>so if you are going to install guix on that mini.... be ready with nomodeset nosplash in bios
<ecbrown>wirez: ^-----
<ecbrown>i don't know if you have amd graphics or intel graphics which is why i am being paranoid
<wirez>we can change mac mini bios?
<wirez>i never knew how
<ecbrown>i meant grub
<ecbrown>right, otherwise it may switch on amd mode and lock up the computer
<ecbrown>and then you will throw chairs
<lambdanon>Hi, I'm having a bit of trouble getting arduino to work with guix. The specific error is here:
<lambdanon>I've made sure i got the latest version of gcc-toolchain, so I've ruled that out
<lambdanon>Going to update avr-toolchain and see if that improves matters
<lambdanon>No such luck
<Guest18>When installing a program... where is its directory?
<ecbrown>(probably bin inside that)
<mekeor>Guest18: you can check with `which the_program_name` and `realpath $(which the_program_name)`
<mekeor>what's the most convenient, straight-forward way to have a local, user-custom package declaration? a guix-channel?
<ecbrown>mekeor: yes, but then you want to add authentication probably, that's a little trickey the first time
<mekeor>ecbrown: can i use file:// as protocol in the ~/.config/guix/channels.scm?
<ecbrown>i think it has to be http(s)
<ecbrown>i would kill for that to be ssh://. :-(
<ecbrown>(and you may want to try file:/// i never have)
<mekeor>ecbrown: in one of the mailing lists, someone got it to work with ssh:// afaik
<ecbrown>ssh with gitolite would be sweet
<ecbrown>i will have to check that out
<Guest18>I installed icedove and I cannot manage to enter into the directory where all its files are. I want to locate my icedove profile but I only find links and get lost...
<ecbrown>Guest18: i have icedove installed an there is a profiles file in ~/.icedove
<ecbrown>i don't know if that's what you are looking for
<ecbrown>mekeor: well, well, well....
<lambdanon>Heya, anyone here managed to get Arduino sketches to compile on their guix system?
<Guest18>How do you install Tor?
<Guest18>I gues tor-client from the repository is ok
<Guest18>If I just want to torify something
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<Guest18>Can I install an old version of a program through Guix?
<Guest18>If I want an old version of Icedove, like Icedove 68. Can I get it through Guix?
<tissevert>you can even install several versions at once using different profiles
<pkill9>Guest18: 'tor' for the repos, then point the ap;plication proxy to localhost:9050
<pkill9>or tor-client, if that works, haven't used it
<Guest18>tissevert: But how can I access old versions?
<Guest18>I only find the newest one
<tissevert>I'm realizing as I try to explain to do it that I haven't ever tried that for real and am completely unable to do so ^^'
<tissevert>how embarassing
<tissevert>I suppose it involves guix time-machine somehow ? or writing a manifest for the package overriding the version ?
<ecbrown>Guest18: the easiest way i know, until guix git search is implemented is to use an inferior to dial in to a guix commit that has it the way you want
<tissevert>ok apparently guix time-machine --commit allows you to jump back to a previous version of the guix repository (?)
<apteryx_>tissevert: Haven't tried myself too, but 'guix time-machine --commit=$past-guix-commit -- package -p /tmp/some-profile -i some-package should work
<roptat>or forward to a future version ;)
<ecbrown>Guest18: i do this for tigervnc-server, which i want pinned to 10.1
<tissevert>: )
<roptat>it's a time machine after all :)
<apteryx_>tissevert: alternatively you could use a manifest with inferiors
<tissevert>I still haven't look into inferiors
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<tissevert>sounds like I?ll have to, it seems to come back into the conversation pretty often
<Guest18>I'm a bit lost. So, what would be the steps to install icedove 68?
<tissevert>apteryx: how to find the appropriate commit ? it seems tedious
<ecbrown>Guest18: when you get a manifest file `my-tiger-vnc.scm' then you can call it in many contexts like --manifest=my-package.scm
<tissevert>the best I have is : clone the repos, git log -S
<apteryx>tissevert: it is, as there is currently no integrated way to query such info from Guix proper. The info should be in the Guix Data Service though.
<ecbrown>Guest18: it turns out to be a kind of hefty operation the first time you do it because it believe it actually has to build everything up from that point you requested, and it may or may not have substitutes available!
<tissevert>so this is what guix git will provide ?
<ecbrown>(just like we want though :-)
<tissevert>is it a work in progress ?
<ecbrown>i may be misspeaking
<ecbrown>i think there's an interest in searching through git lot to see when a package changed version
<ecbrown>and a porcelein around that
<tissevert>hmmm I don't remember what porcelaine does
<ecbrown>well, i'm thinking something like guix git search emacs 27.1 and it finds the commit where that was committed
<tissevert>that would sound nice
<ecbrown>i thnk maybe authroatitve way would be to search (version ..) field and that sounds like a job for `guix ...'. rather than grepping a git log
<tissevert>is there already an implementation on that ?
<ecbrown>i think yes, from an outreachy project. i think its getting staged
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<lambdanon>Got arduino IDE working with this workaround: Got it working from this site:
<lambdanon>Got to get it working with 1.0 now
<lambdanon>(Apologies for saying the same thing twice, I was also chatting with a discord server about the same thing)
<ecbrown>there will be a small surcharge to your bill, thanks for understanding /mgmt
<ecbrown>did you mean you got it working on arduino?
<ecbrown>i have a couple in my cabinet and maybe i can try it
<lambdanon>ecbrown: I've got the basic void setup () {} void loop () {} on the latest version of arduino
<lambdanon>ecbrown: Unfortunately I specifically need arduino 1.0.x as it's what my 3D printer's firmware is built for, and apparently there's bugs in the c++ header files
<ecbrown>hmm, well thats way beyond me
<lambdanon>Ah, figured out what's wrong -- I was launching my pre-workaround arduino 1.0.x
<lambdanon>Now I'm getting a java.lang.NoSuchMethodError
<tissevert>Guest18: in any case, it appears that commit b14aab6710555f2e94d8e846a07f507860879463 adds icedove, directly to version 68.8
<tissevert>so no earlier version should be available
<lambdanon>Fixed by cleaning and rebulding, now I'm back to the previous problem of errors in the header files
<tissevert>but if that should work in guix time-machine
<tissevert>wow that involves a lot of compilation ? my fans are spinning up
<tissevert>it's now downloading an awful lot of stuff
<ecbrown>i think basically recreate guix at that point in time, so i expect it to take on the order of building guix source
<ecbrown>no guarantee of substitutes
<ecbrown>or anything in /gnu/store
<tissevert>(I only performed a guix search through the time-machine but it appears it was needed to build guix-packages-base.drv)
<ecbrown>it is the most brilliant test of disaster recovery ehvah
<ecbrown>like, if you had to go it alone without
<tissevert>building guix-system.drv…
<tissevert>ok I'm reading about inferiors and I don't really understand where they come in : it looks like a piece of tapeduct needed to access a channel ? or does it add something I missed ? isn't it possible in guix to access a package in specific channel like I don't know what syntax it would have but, say, my-channel->package "hello" ?
<ecbrown>tissevert: section 5.8 has a mvp
<tissevert>yeah, that's what I was looking at
<tissevert>but I mean, is that what «inferiors» are ? a piece of plumbing ?
<tissevert>or is there something more ?
<ecbrown>that sounds metaphysical, i'm more of a hacker ;-)
<tissevert>I don't usually like to cite nix as a comparison, but that's how I came in contact with store-based systems
<tissevert>and in nix once you declare let myrepos = import "https://something…" {}; you can really just write myrepos.hello later on
<tissevert>so I was assuming there was something similar in guix
<tissevert>now, reading about inferiors makes me feel like there isn't
<tissevert>and the workaround is precisely what inferiors are
<tissevert>am I missing something here ?
<wirez>"More funds could also sponsor more interns via the Outreachy program, with the goal of increasing diversity in Guix and allowing more people to get involved in free software." why does skin color matter to guix?
<wirez>bad sign actually
<ecbrown>i would point out the beneficial results of the outreachy programs whose artifacts are in blogs and in guix
<ruffni>is it possible to build packages from ./pre-inst-env ?
<roptat>ruffni, yes, ./pre-inst-env guix build foo
<roptat>you can run any guix command like that, not just build
<wirez>you can mentor ppl and get results without making it about skin color and buttholes
<wirez>that's dumb and weird
<tissevert>wirez: yeah, I mean pretty much all of us are gay, right ? so how exactly could we become any more «diverse» ?
<wirez>all Diversity(tm) means is buttholes and skin color
<pushcx>wirez: have you tried not being a butthole?
<ruffni>it fails to connect to the daemon-socket (i'm on a guix system)
<wirez>don't you mean Toxic(tm)?
<tissevert>plus, we are already so many women here on the chan that I don't feel we could be more similar to what the actual society looks like
<roptat>ruffni, mh... did you use different configure options than the recommended ones? (--localstatedir)
<tissevert>Guest18: for what it's worth, here's the output of my attempt with guix time-machine, a search result showing icedove 68.8.0
<ruffni>no, none at all. only thing special is i'm on wip-simplified-packages
<tissevert>from there it would be possible to install it, albeit as was said with a lot of compilation because there aren't any substitutes for the dependencies of this version so you'd end up recompiling everything yourself
<tissevert>but it would work : )
<roptat>wirez, we did participate in Gsoc until google kicked the fsf out (or was it gnu?), so outreachy is our only program left
<wirez>too much Diversity(tm) even for google? imagine the smell
<roptat>I don't think that was their reason ^^'
<roptat>anyway, I think all the devs agree to say more diversity is always a good thing, I doubt you'll change our minds
<ecbrown>wirez: i am sympathetic to your viewpoint and look forward to the goals of the french revolution in their asymptotic limit
<wirez>not trying to change your "minds"
<wirez>just weird to see ppl obsess over things that don't matter
<wirez>i remember when the internet didn't have that problem. ppl were just what they typed, just their minds
<tissevert>you seem to have a high opinion on everyone's tolerance
<wirez>now even online, someone's chat messages need to be in the context of buttholes and skin color
<tissevert>ah, the good ol' times, when we were all only young white dudes chilling out, no one was different back then
<wirez>noone knew race nor cared
<tissevert>wirez: I'd love to know what you mean exactly by «buttholes»
<wirez>weird that you project white onto it, like a racist faggot would
<ruffni>wirez: i think the issue is more into lowering entry-barriers. the internet *is* just what you type, but funnily enough it's still mostly white male professionals. i'm not sure whether this kind of program really adreesses the root of the issue
<wirez>im black btw
<roptat>it certainly helps, at least we hope so
<ruffni>you're mostly characters on a screen
*ecbrown calmly recalls the gnu proper etiquettes for gnu communications
<wirez>nah, not with diversity being your main goal. like, that's not even engineering
<tissevert>roptat: I don't know if it helps, but in any case, the point being discussed wasn't the means but the aim
<wirez>im no longer wirez, i'm black wirez
<roptat>tissevert, right
<tissevert>wirez: no, not to every one, only to «racist faggot» me
<wirez>and the fsf
<roptat>wirez, I think that's the misunderstanding: guix is not only engineering, it's also a political project, given it's part of the free software movement and everything
<wirez>so when i start contributing code, im not just a contributor, i'm a checkbox of diversity because you don't want code, you want code from $skincolor
<wirez>so f'ing weird
<dstolfa>is anyone having an issue with ungoogled-chromium where after an update (not sure if it's guix system reconfigure or if it's guix package -u), all the stuff i was logged into just logs me out
<dstolfa>i assume it's something to do with cookies... though not sure what
<roptat>if you contribute code, we don't care about your skin color
<wirez>political is easy to get wrong and that's why it's dangerous and here's the example. if your politics were only software freedom, you exclude noone. but yoyu make it about diversity, now you exclude everyone that's smart
<wirez>roptat: your messaging isn't consistent. you can't have it both ways
<roptat>no, it's about including people who usually don't even get a chance
<wirez>either merit is the goal, or diversity
<wirez>merit is the individual, diversity dehumanizes the individual into the group
<tissevert>wirez: honestly I appreciate this discussion, and I would really like to understand your point of view better, this is not irony: how exactly is diversity excluding «everyone that's smart» ?
<tissevert>but the society with all its biases already dehumanizes a lot of us
<tissevert>and tips the balance most of the time
<wirez>because it's transparently a joke of itself that anyone smart would not take it seriously, or projects making it their goal. because it's saying merit comes from diversity, like skin color, so some skin color is better than another?
<wirez>that's a rude PoV, instead of saying the better code is better
<wirez>that's a good PoV
<pushcx>weird how this guy read a six-month old blog post and then raced here to pick a fight and throw out some slurs which is a totally normal thing that normal people who want to contribute to projects do all the time
<wirez>raced here? been here for a day or two already liar
<wirez>been reading everything i can find on guix. loved everything till this
<wirez>i might still use guix but noway will i contribute ever
<tissevert>now, maybe now would as good a time as 15:44:14 to remind everyone, like ecbrown did, that the etiquette matters
<tissevert>especially when discussing sensitive issues like this one
<tissevert>I think no one here is a liar
<roptat>wirez, I do understand it would be rude (and racist) to treat individuals according to their skin color, but I don't understand why you would say guix cares about your skin color, personally
<wirez>pushcx obviously mischaracterizing me. it's plain as day ignore it if yoyu want
<tissevert>and, by taking the time to take part in this conversation, deserves respect
<wirez>Diversity(tm) = buttholes and skin color
<roptat>well, please explain that equation, I don't understand
<apapsch>everybody has a butthole?
<wirez>it's like yoyu're not even trying to be honest, playing a child. as if yoyu don't know everything associated with that word for the past 10 years has been sexuality and race
<wirez>before that it was things like ecology
*ecbrown notes that the sometimes infinite recursion is *undesirable*
<ruffni>like "green footprint"
<wirez>diversity used to be a term ppl would associate with things like ecology. for the past decade it's been twisted into an obsession on race and sexuality
<ruffni>you mean *bio*-diversity?
<wirez>ya that has diversity in it
<wirez>wake up buddy, try to see the obvious point
<roptat>hi kline :)
<dstolfa>kline: \o
<ruffni>wirez: but you see, "has diversity in it" is not the same as using the entire word. and also: words change meaning. pretty much all of them, pretty much throughout history. it's how language works: by adapting to contexts
<wirez>man you are totally incapable of seeing outside of yourself
<tissevert>apapsch: I do (I just checked)
<roptat>wirez, please remain polite
<wirez>that was impolite?
<wirez>what a weird zombie sodomite horde this actually feels like
<wirez>ill just go
<roptat>oh well, good riddance I suppose
<tissevert>«ah, those Social Justice Warriors who can't hear anyone disagreeing with them and can't talk»
<MysteriousSilver>hello #guix
<MysteriousSilver>installed emacs-guix, The command fails at the `Starting Guix REPL` part, am i missing any dependencies?
<tissevert>well, actually, it would appear it's just a matter of having numeric superiority
<roptat>tissevert, yeah, it does feel like that sometimes
<dstolfa>well that was odd
*dstolfa isn't sure he wants to read the full backlog
<boeg>how do I properly refer to an installed binary in the current system with a full path? Like what would on many other systems be /usr/bin/something, what is that in guix? Doesn't seem to be /usr/bin/something
<apapsch>tissevert: yeah, seemed a lot like projecting
<roptat>dstolfa, please don't ^^'
<tissevert>and kinda sad but interesting at the same time
<tissevert>boeg: no, the actual binaries are somewhere in `/gnu/store/`
<ecbrown>boeg: try ~/.guix-profile
<boeg>yeah, but are they symlinked to a "normal" path or something?
<MysteriousSilver>here's the error message:
<dstolfa>well, to change topic... how do i get cinnamon to work in guix?
<roptat>boeg, you have no way to know, although the system installed binaries can be found in /run/current-system/profile/bin
<dstolfa>there's no cinnamon-desktop-service-type
<boeg>roptat:, ecbrown alright, thanks
<ecbrown>boeg: that's the most "friendly" "refrencecable" in the old unix way
<roptat>boeg, and user-installed ones are in ~/.guix-profile
<apapsch>I also had a question but almost forgot: is the address of the record stable?
<boeg>alright. So in my specific case, I need to tell gpg-agent where to find the pinentry-gtk-2. Would you set it to ~/.guix-profile/bin/pinentry-gtk-2 then?
<ruffni>boeg: yes
<boeg>alright, ruffni, thanks
<ruffni>as long as that works ;)
<ruffni>why is my `./pre-inst-env guix build foo` looking for the store-socket in /usr/local/var/guix/daemon-socket/socket ?
<ruffni>i get a "No such file.." error and yes; that's not where the store socket is!
<tissevert>sounds like a bad or missing --localstatedir in ./configure, doesn't it ?
<ruffni>do i have to set that explicitly?
<tissevert>I think you do, when you initialize your development environment (as shown in creating packages, pt1 on
<ruffni>thanks for the link!
<tissevert>: )
<apapsch>there was some talk here about backups the other day. I had the need too and created a little guile script for file and mysql backup:
<apapsch>should be good enough for the average php application and is easily integrated in operating-system
<MysteriousSilver>does installing guix in user-profile make any difference? (guix package -i guix)
<roptat>MysteriousSilver, you should never do that
<tricon>apapsch: Oh snapzilla, thanks for this.
<apapsch>roptat: seems like an easy foot cannon :-)
<apapsch>tricon: glad to hear!
<roptat>the guix package you're installing in the user profile is always older than the guix you pulled, so if you use that, you're using an older one, and everytime you "upgrade" you're actually downgrading guix
<roptat>that's the reason why there's a separate profile for guix pull
<MysteriousSilver>roptat: this package mentions to install guix
<MysteriousSilver>did they actually mean something else?
<roptat>MysteriousSilver, oh, in that case I think it's ok, but still dangerous, you need to make extra sure you're not using the guix from that user profile
<vivien>It’s safe to do that, if ~/.config/guix/current/bin comes before ~/.guix-profile/bin
<vivien>in PATH
<roptat>(and that you have pulled guix at least once)
<MysteriousSilver>uhh, "$HOME/.config/guix/current" gets sourced first followed by "$HOME/.guix-profile"
<MysteriousSilver>is that correct?
<raghavgururajan>boeg: You can create shepherd user service for gpg-agent. Its a neat way to manage services at user-level. Here is my snippet ( To learn more, see
<boeg>raghavgururajan: good to know, thanks 👌
<vivien>MysteriousSilver, also make sure that both are sourced in ~/.profile or ~/.bash_profile and not ~/.bashrc, and if you modify something, don’t forget to log out and back in again. Running "which guix" should give you /home/<you>/.config/guix/current/bin/guix
<roptat>vivien, MysteriousSilver better run "type guix", to make extra sure what your terminal really thinks
<tissevert>raghavgururajan: thanks for sharing ! I had no idea it could be that simple to create a service
<vivien>I’ve never understood what "hash guix" means by the way
<roptat>it clears your shell's cache of locations
<roptat>so, if you never pulled guix before, guix refers to, say, /run/current-system/profile/bin/guix
<roptat>and that gets saved in bash, but after "guix pull", which knows it's in ~/.config/guix/... but bash still has its cache, so "guix upgrade" will still use the one in /run
<roptat>"hash" clears the whole cache, "hash guix" clears the entry for guix in that cache
<vivien>Thank you
<MysteriousSilver>I'm using nixos, can i do it like this instead?:
<MysteriousSilver>or is using ~/.profile the current way?
<roptat>I don't know much about nixos, but if that generates your .profile or .bash_profile, that looks fine
<MysteriousSilver>it generates in /etc/profile i think
<roptat>then that's fine, but maybe you want to use the same code as guix system
<roptat>this is what I have on my guix system:
<roptat>of course you can ignore /run/current-system
<MysteriousSilver>> roptat‎: of course you can ignore /run/current-system
<MysteriousSilver>there are several instances of it, which one are you referring to?
<roptat>all of them, /run/current-system is a guix thing
<roptat>like in "export MANPATH=$HOME/.guix-profile/share/man:/run/current-system/profile/share/man", you probably want to keep only "export MANPATH=$HOME/.guix-profile/share/man"
<MysteriousSilver>`export MANPATH=$HOME/.guix-profile/share/man:$MANPATH`, no?
<MysteriousSilver>since i'm running it on top of another distro
<roptat>ah, yes
<MysteriousSilver>and what should be my $GUIX_PROFILE be?
<roptat>it doesn't matter
<roptat>you can ignore # Load the system profile's settings
<MysteriousSilver>ah yes
<MysteriousSilver>what about `export PATH=/run/setuid-programs:$PATH`?
<MysteriousSilver>is it a GuixSD thing?
<roptat>you probably want something like this:
<roptat>there's a trick with variables to, in case they're empty, you don't want to have a trailing :
<roptat>you'd use ${PATH:+:}$PATH instead of only $PATH
<MysteriousSilver>> roptat‎: you probably want something like this:
<MysteriousSilver>trying it
<MysteriousSilver>what happened
<roptat>did you replace the whole /etc/profile? I thought nix would put its own stuff there too?
<MysteriousSilver>i just edited ~/.profile and then sourced it
<roptat>weird, did you copy the "unset PATH" line maybe?
*MysteriousSilver feels dumb
<MysteriousSilver>now it doesn't print the error
<MysteriousSilver>should i remove the previous guix configuration from /etc/profile?
<MysteriousSilver>would ~/.profile suffice?
<roptat>I think so, but only for one user
<MysteriousSilver>i'm the only user
<MysteriousSilver>but what should i do when i login as root user?
<roptat>if you plan to use guix as root, you'll need the same kind of code loaded in your profile
<roptat>it's probably easier to stick all of that in /etc/profile in that case
<MysteriousSilver>i mean, i should reinstall required packages, right?
<roptat>yes, your user profile is not shared with root, they're separate users for guix
<MysteriousSilver>thanks you roptat
<roptat>if you want a package for root and your user, you need to install it both as root and as user
<roptat>yw :)
<ruffni>or system-wide (thorugh sys config and `guix reconfigure`)
<MysteriousSilver>is it a good idea to add `. /home/anon/.profile` to /etc/profile?
<roptat>no, it wouldn't be accessible to other users
<roptat>well, if you have only one user, it doesn't matter I guess
<MysteriousSilver>sounds good
<roptat>ah, and you'll get duplicates when logging in as anon
<ruffni>has anyone here installed packages in octave (via `pkg install -forge foo`)?
*ruffni wonder whether that needs special dependencies and whether they should be added to the package
<roptat>ruffni, I don't
<jsoo>has anyone had problems using yasnippets snippets from a snippets directory installed via guix?
<roptat>maybe more luck on the ml?
<TheAsdfMan>Hello, How can i make a virtual service that provides wpa-supplicant, because any networking service requires it, and i don't want it
<roptat>TheAsdfMan, sorry, I don't understand the question. You want a service that provides wpa-supplicant because you don't want it?
<TheAsdfMan>roptat: a virtual service, it doesn't run wpa-supplicant just says that it provides it
<roptat>give me a sec
<roptat>TheAsdfMan, I would try something like this:
<TheAsdfMan>ok let me try it
<roptat>then add (service fake-wpa-supplicant-service-type) to the list of services
<ruffni>roptat: i will :)
***Server sets mode: +Ccntz
<ixmpp>What say you folk to having a /gnu/ipfs path. Does that violate any scriptures?
<civodul>what for? :-)
<ixmpp>Im thinking i'll dust off and fixup the ipfs substitution branch, and make it use ipfs filestore instead, with an ipfs daemon sat in /gnu (so filestore can use reflinks etc) and doesnt interfere with a normal daemon
<ixmpp>That makes `ipfs add` crazy fast, and the ipfs repo next to nothing in size, cause all data is deduped (safe because /gnu/store is immutable)
<ixmpp>Then for substitution, the /gnu/ipfs daemon can fetch, and since it's guaranteed to be on the same FS as /gnu/store, that move is instantaneous too
<ixmpp>Already rebased the branch but it seems to me like this approach would be smarter
<ixmpp>I feel like i have to ask on that path, since i imagine if i succeed at this it would end up potentially upstream, but that is pretty essential to the functioning
<TheAsdfMan>After editing the service a bit i got it working! thanks roptat!
<soheil>Hello Guix!
*vagrantc wonders how de-duplication works with hardlinks that are also available outside of the read-only part of the store ...
<vagrantc>e.g. /gnu/writeable/FILE is a hardlink to /gnu/store/abcde1234...-FILE ... can you write to /gnu/writeable/FILE ?
<vagrantc>and will the read-only part ... somehow notice and not break the hardlink ?
<ixmpp>vagrantc: Any modification breaks the hardlink
<ixmpp>(Depending on fs and type of modification, there might still be some block-level dedup within the file?)
<apapsch>this site seems to suggest the link outside should be read-only:
<apapsch>which makes sense both links point to the same inode and the permissions are stored for the inode, no?
<ixmpp>I suppose that's the specific difference between hardlink and reflink
<ixmpp>Reflink mirrors the data, hardlink mirrors the entire file, but in both cases modifying one will break the link
<ixmpp>And root can modify anything ;)
<tricon>soheil: Hello!
<ixmpp>civodul: so, what say you?
<soheil>tricon: 🙋‍♂️️ 😘️
<jab>Hey guix!
<soheilkhanalipur>How can I completely remove/purge a package like Ungoogled-Chromium in Guix?
<civodul>ixmpp: re IPFS, i don't know! if this sounds good to you, why not
<ruffni>soheilkhanalipur: what do you mean exactly? for the system? for your profile? for every profile?
<ruffni>do you want the executable files removed?
<soheilkhanalipur>ruffnl: for every where!
<soheilkhanalipur>all files
<ruffni>that's not that easy, i think :) you can delete the reference from your /etc/config.scm and reconfigure the system. but then you'd still have to `guix remove` it from every profile. and if you want the files removed, you will then have to `guix gc`....
<dstolfa>there's also generations that contain it
<dstolfa>so you'd have to remove all the generations
<dstolfa>for all intents and purposes, `guix remove` is probably sufficient
<soheilkhanalipur>dstolfa: How do I delete all generations at once?
<dstolfa>i guess you can just use `guix package -d`
<soheilkhanalipur>dstolfa: Thanks
<raghavgururajan>sneek, later tell bavier[m]: Congratulations on getting the commit access. :)
<rovanion>Man there are many grafts in Guix now.
<raghavgururajan>bavier[m]: Oh, it was key renewal. xD
<ixmpp>Im confused what grafts are again tbh. I thought it was package-rewriting-inputs that generates them, but i'm told that does the replace before build, not after
<roptat>input rewriting happens before the build, grafts happen afterwards, using replacements
<ixmpp>I think i just forgot how grafts work cause i've not used them yet
<ixmpp>It's the replacement field in package, right?
<roptat>basically, it rewrites a package output by substituting a reference to a package, by a reference to the replacement of that package
<ixmpp>Right, yeah i'd just forgot and confused the concepts
<ixmpp> Ty
<Guest40>guix seems fun, I'm using it along side packman
<Guest40>For some reason all the zsh completions for programs i install with guix are broken
<Guest40>I get an error message like "function definition file not found"
<Guest40>Is this a common problem?
<rekado>Guest40: do you have a reproducible recipe that we could try?
<Guest40>I'm not sure about that.
<ixmpp>Guest40: likely need to tell zsh where the completions are, in your guix profile
<Guest40>right that sounds resonable
<Guest40>were are the completion files?
<Guest40>oh i see there in etc
<Guest40>I see bash_completion.d and fish but i dont seem to have zsh
<Guest40>Is there a way of telling guix to maintain zsh completions too?
<roptat>that would depend on the packages, no?
<roptat>or do you mean completion for guix commands?
<ixmpp>I think so
<Guest40>well both would be nice but I mean the former. does guix not keep track of things like completion files
<roptat>it does if packages define them
<drakonis>this is opensuse eh?
<Guest40>okay but not in general
<roptat>like the completions.d directory you find is there only because some packages define a completion file for bash, but guix itself has no notion of completion
<Guest40>im on arch
<Guest40>so what is the normal solution to this? Should I manually maintain zsh completions, or some how modify the packages
<Guest40>also im confused as to why its looking for completion if one didnt get set up. I would have thought a program with out any configured completion would just not have compleation rather then produce an error saying it has no completion
<ixmpp>Like i said, just tell zsh where the guix completions are
<ixmpp>Theyll be in ~/.guix-profile/etc/zsh or something
<ixmpp>Zsh isnt gonna look there by default
<ixmpp>Make it
<ft>you make it by adding that directory to $fpath, before calling ‘compinit’
<bavier[m]>raghavgururajan: 🙂
<sneek>bavier[m], you have 1 message!
<sneek>bavier[m], raghavgururajan says: Congratulations on getting the commit access. :)
<ft>fpath=( "$HOME/.guix-profile/share/zsh/$ZSH_VERSION/functions" "${fpath[@]}" )
<ft>like that.
<ixmpp>There you go
<ft>That will override the functions that come with arch's zsh though. Flip the order of the arguments in the array to make the ones from guix's zsh to be a fallback.
<ft>Wait. You just want _guix? Forget what I said then. :)
<ft>fpath=( "$HOME/.guix-profile/share/zsh/site-functions" "${fpath[@]}" )
<ft>That one's in there.
<Guest40>no i wanted normal completion for most packages not just guix
<ft>Are you using guix's zsh or the one from arch?
<drakonis>Guest40: ah right you had written packman, it is the name of a opensuse repo
<Guest40>so this fpath thing tells zsh were to look for completions, but i still need to get completion files for all these programs some how
<drakonis>pacman is arch's package manager
<Guest40>oh ye sorry i just typoed
<ft>I just checked. Guix's zsh sets $fpath correctly. It contains /gnu/store/2hsg15n644f0glrcbkb1kqknmmqdar03-zsh-5.8/share/zsh/5.8/functions on this system, which has all the completion functions.
<Guest40>okay so iv I install zsh with guix instead of pacman then it will set up completions
<ft>I don't quite understand what's not working. Arch's zsh should work irregardless of guix.
<drakonis>are you sourcing guix's profile?
<ixmpp>Guest40: im not sure thats true either
<ixmpp>Oh, it is, ok
<ixmpp>This seems a mess
<ft>Is this about the programs installed via guix not being available in arch's zsh? And not about completion?
<Guest40>so /bin/zsh is my log in shell so i would need to some how set it to be $home/.guix-profile/bin/zsh
<Guest40>the programs are avalible
<drakonis>the actual question is, what are you trying to get completion for?
<Guest40>but if i hit tab it gives me an error (eval):1: _youtube-dl: function definition file not found
<Guest40>i also had this problem with zathura
<ft>rm ~/.zcompdump
<ft>restart zsh via: exec zsh
<ixmpp>This is why i dont like multiple package managers
<ft>Sounds like an invalid completion cache.
<ixmpp>But i do think setting your login shell to something not managed by your system package manager is a mistake
<Guest40>okay rm ~/.zcompdump and restarting zsh (in different tty) didnt help
<drakonis>shell completion is fine at least
<drakonis>on guix itself
<Guest40>I wanted to get used to guix as a second package manager and then hopefully transition to guix propper
<ft>I can switch between guix's zsh and debian's on my machine and it keeps working. :)
<drakonis>i see
<drakonis>ft: i think vagrant made sure guix worked fine on debian
<drakonis>hm, no patches here related to shell things
<ft>But I second ixmpp's point about non-system maintained login shells.
<drakonis>it just works~
<ft>drakonis: I'm not using his package on this machine. I only learned about it a week or so ago.
<drakonis>i see
<Guest40>okay so if i install youtube-dl both with pacman and guix then its the guix version that gets run but pacman provides the zsh completions for it
<Guest40>elegant solution XD
<drakonis>Guest40: how are you installing guix?
<drakonis>aur or the shell script?
<Guest40>the install script
<drakonis>okay cool
<ft>Guest40: youtube-dl brings its own completion, I guess?
<ft>Probably so. In that case you'd have to tell guix's zsh the path where the pacman package installs the additional completion file.
<ft>I would know the path on debian, but not on arch.
<ft>(On debian its /usr/share/zsh/vendor-completions - which is where the zsh package asks all other package maintainers to install their add-on completions to)
<Guest40>i belive its /usr/share/zsh/site-functions
<Guest40>for arch
<drakonis>check your environment variables
<roptat>ah, maybe guix and arch have a different zsh version?
<ft>Guest40: print ${^fpath}/_youtube-dl(N)
<ft>(on arch's zsh)
<Guest40>here is what I can tell; when I uninstall a program with pacman, the relevant _completion file are removed, and those files dont seem to be being provided when guix installes that package
<Guest40>so is that becuase there not in the guix packages or becuase its putting them somewere that zsh isnt looking
<ft>vagrantc: Speaking of the debian package (awesome stuff! It'll give me guix at work as soon as we're upgrading to the upcoming stable): What's the intended way to make use of an updated guix-daemon from the system profile? :)
<Guest40>whos responsible for completion files? is it zsh, the package manager or the packages?\
<drakonis>experimental has 1.3.0 btw
<drakonis>the packages provide the completion
<vagrantc>ft: there is no system profile on a foreign distro
<ft>Guest40: Zsh provides a *ton* of completions on its own. Like git and tmux and stuff like that. Some packages provide addional completions.
<vagrantc>ft: you can of course build a profile somewhere and point systemd/sysvinit/openrc or whatever to use that guix-daemon instead of the provided one
<leoprikler>w.r.t. zsh, Guix doesn't handle those, you have to add Guix' directories to your .zprofile
<iskarian>good morning, Guix!
<leoprikler>ideally at least Guix zsh would honor some environment variables, but ya can't have everything
<ft>vagrantc: I suppose the one associated with the root user. On a test install I added a modified guix-daemon.service at /etc/systemd/system — which works.
<vagrantc>ft: i touch on this in the README.Debian shipped in the guix .deb package
<ft>vagrantc: Ouch. I may have missed that. *whistle* :)
<vagrantc>ft: though notably it just says it uses the /usr/bin/guix-* ... doesn't mention if you might want to do things differently
<vagrantc>ft: anyways, hope it works for you. can't say it's terribly well tested at this point.
<vagrantc>we'll see how well it works out sticking with an old guix-daemon in the long-term :)
<ft>vagrantc: It works well on a test system that I installed the other day. :)
<ft>vagrantc: And I'm using this: as my systemd service file.
<vagrantc>ft: if you used _guixbuild instead, you wouldn't have to manually create that group
<vagrantc>and add users to it, etc.
<ft>vagrantc: ach... crap I pasted the wrong file.
<ft>That's the one from the system that doesn't use the package.
<ft>On the other it's a copy of yours that just replaces ExecStart and Environment. Sorry about the confusion.
<ft>vagrantc: Anyway. Thanks for doing that work! :)
<iskarian>for bugs I found with a quick fix, should I first submit a bug and then a patch (in reply to? to guix-patches but referencing the bug?) or just send the patch to guix-patches?
<roptat>iskarian, just send the patch
<drakonis> noice
<drakonis>hmm, do patches get applied to older release branches or is the focus on following mainline?
<Guest79>I have downloaded the tor-browser
<Guest79>When I run the starter it tells me "Wrong architecture? 32-bit vs. 64-bit."
<Guest79>My computer is 64bit and I downloaded the 64 bit version of the Tor Browser
<minikN>Hello. I'm trying to install dxvk in Guix, this is the config I currently use: but when building it, I get this error: multiple definition of enum D3D11_FORMAT_SUPPORT. Does anyone know this error?
<Guest79>Any suggestion on how to have the Tor Browser installed?
<vagrantc>drakonis: usually just on master (or staging, or core-updates, depending on the number of rebuilds) ... unless i'm misunderstanding you?
<drakonis>ah apologies, i wasn't clear enough
<drakonis>is there a situation where a patch gets backported to any of the release branches?
<vagrantc>Guest79: generally downloading arbitrary software doesn't work on guix, as it doesn't have system libraries in places they expect
<drakonis>ie: 1.2.0 and 1.3.0 received patches for CI last week
<vagrantc>drakonis: ah, i would be interested to know the logic of that too :)
<Guest79>vagrantc: Ooooh, I did not know that!
<vagrantc>Guest79: there may be some ways to work around that in some cases
<vagrantc>normally you would need to build it specifically for guix so it gets the right library paths embedded
<minikN>Here is the build log for dxvk: Sorry I couldn't upload to
<Guest79>So, in Guix, if you don't find something in the repository, you have to build it yourself?
<Guest79>Butso common like tor-browser
<Guest79>But something so common like tor-browser... is there any way to contribute to that repository?
<Guest79>Well, I am not a developer, but a limted user trying to lear Guix, but I would like to know how to have the Tor Browser installed
<vagrantc>i suspect tor-browser may have some issues that aren't compatible with the FSDG
<Guest79>I don't think so. Well, I have not analyse it. But I know Richard Stallman uses the Tor Browser : )
<Guest79>He says so.
<jackhill>There has been some work on packaging Tor Browser One big question mark over the whole thing is if the packaged version offers the same anonymity
<sneek>Welcome back jackhill, you have 1 message!
<sneek>jackhill, raghavgururajan says: Hmm, thats odd. I didn't get that issue few days ago. Could you try at the commit d02c1d0f8382d14b0df3e3e4f4d5fe0a3956d89f (`guix pull --branch=staging --commit=d02c1d0f8382d14b0df3e3e4f4d5fe0a3956d89f && guix install gajim`)?
<iskarian>roptat, thanks!
<vagrantc>oh, i had assumed torbrowser didn't disable the extensions repository search thing (which may contain non-free extensions) ... as that's what blocked firefox
<roptat>vagrantc, that's a minor issue no? a short patch could fix it I think
<Guest79>well, you might be right, I don't know
*vagrantc shrugs
<roptat>in any case, building tor-browser will be extremely hard
<jonsger>bricewge: do you have those webauthn patches somewhere in git?
<Guest79>So no Guix user uses Tor Browser?
<bricewge>jonsger: Yup there are here
<drakonis>vagrantc: it isn't held up by the fsdg
<vagrantc>guess not, sounds like
<vagrantc>pretty much blocked by "building modern browsers is hard, and secure ones even harder" from the sounds of it
<drakonis>it's pretty much that
<drakonis>as tor expects to be bundled
<roptat>Guest79, I use icecat, and I configured it to use tor
*vagrantc will wander off and provide misinformation elsewhere for a while :)
<Guest79>roptat: Thank you. I will do so too. I was thinking of abandoning Guix.
<roptat>wow, just because of the tor browser?
<bricewge>jonsger: If you use webauthn in icedove I'll like a feedback since I did not test it
<Guest79>Icecat through Tor is not as secure as Tor-Browser, I will have to take it always into account
<roptat>ah, I guess I don't mind that much, but you might be right
<vagrantc>browser fingerprinting is scarily effective
<Guest79>Actually I'm not sure if I'll stay in Guix, I really need TorBrowser
<vagrantc>you can run guix on a foreign distro, if you still want to experiment with and learn guix
<roptat>I know people have used an "fhs service", although I'm not sure where that service is defined
<Guest79>Yes, I come from Trisquel. Some weeks ago I tested Guix as a package manager and liked it very much. Yesterday I decided to try Guix as a system.
<roptat>it creates the structure expected by those random binaries, so it would be easier to use the torbrowser
<jackhill>I wonder if would work?
<roptat>ah flatpack might work too, never tried
<Guest79>I see flatpak is available at Guix repositories. Does flatpak only provide Free Software?
<jackhill>the flatpack seems to work for me :)
<ixmpp>Flatpak works for me too
<Guest79>I guess that's good news.
<ixmpp>I use it for minecraft
<roptat>I don't think so, but I also think we disable the default repository, that provides nonfree software
<jackhill>Guest79: flatpak is sort of like a package manager. It depends on on what repositories its configured to fetch from. The flagship repository is not commited to only free software, so it's not enabled by default in guix.
<Guest79>Minecraft is not Free
<ixmpp>Oh, sorry, forget i mentioned it 😘
<dstolfa>ixmpp: just replace craft with test and pretend you're using it from flatpak (:
<ixmpp>Is minetest actually any good?
<jackhill>like in this case, Tor Browser Bundle is free software. And to show the packaging difficulty, the flatpak is just a downloader for the binaries
<Guest79>: )
<Guest79>Ok, I guess I should trust those binaries
<ixmpp>I do like that it's in c++ but last i remember it was awful
<dstolfa>ixmpp: there are some fun games built on minetest, but it's nowhere near the polish of minecraft when it comes to the actual game
<jackhill>what would be super cool would be the the tor folks used guix to build their official binaries like bitcoin :)
<jackhill>Guest79: that seems to be what torproject wants you to do at least. Is there Trisquel package for it?
<dstolfa>is there some kind of "find out what color this is" in guix?
<dstolfa>i wanna click on my screen in a pdf and get the #... for the color
<dstolfa>doesn't matter if RGB, HSV or whatever
<dstolfa>just any
<Guest79>there is not a tor-browser package at Trisquel
<roptat>dstolfa, gpick
<Guest79>ixmpp: so you downloaded minecraft through Flatpak in Guix?
<Guest79>If so, I think that's a sin :P
<ixmpp>May allah forgive me
<dstolfa>roptat: wow that's really buggy on wayland lol
<jackhill>Guest79: ah, so I guess you're were trusting the the torproject binaries then too
<Guest79>: )
<roptat>dstolfa, ah you're adding a layer of complexity to it :p
<roptat>well, just take a screenshot and open it in gimp :p
<Guest79>I don't think that follows the GFSD
<Guest79>I mean this Flatpak thing being able to download non-free software
<dstolfa>roptat: yeah that's what i did :D
<leoprikler>your web browser can also download non-free software
<jackhill>Guest79: well, so is wget or GNOME-Web or curl…
<Guest79>I am surrounded by devils
<leoprikler>question is whether it's advertised
<Guest79>: o
<leoprikler>for instance, adding the client would be a poor decision on our part, even if there's some free software to be found on it
<Guest79>I wold like Guix to be as pure as Trisquel
<leoprikler>how does trisquel limit flatpak?
<leoprikler>if there's some patches we could easily apply, you might want to make those changes to the package and send it to the ML
<roptat>(or just send enough info, though that won't guarantee someone else will do the job)
<dstolfa>isn't flatpak sort of agnostic as to what the upstream is?
<dstolfa>sure, flathub packages non-free things, but you can just not use flathub?
<dstolfa>that doesn't make guix impure, it just means you chose to enable a source of non-free software
<roptat>which distinguishes it from, which is designed to get things only from one source
<roptat>we can patch flatpak to not look for non free sources, whereas we can't change, so we can package the former but not the latter, right?
<roptat>*and it being useful
<dstolfa>why would you even want to do that with flatpak? it doesn't look at any sources by default, you have to explicitly enable it
<dstolfa>it's the user's choice
<dstolfa>if you just do a `guix install flatpak`, you don't have a single place to get software from, you have to choose which one you add
<dstolfa>if you choose to add flathub, then you get non-free software, but that's a conscious decision
<roptat>yeah, I mean, we can patch flatpak to not look for non free software by not configuring it to look for flathub
<dstolfa>i don't think it does that right now
<dstolfa>it just kind of says: go configure a thing
<dstolfa>in order to set up flatpak, you have to do a flatpak remote-add ...
<dstolfa>i don't think it has any in by default
<leoprikler>it's been a while since I last s
<roptat>ok, that's also my understanding, I might not have expressed myself clearly, sorry
<leoprikler>last used flatpak, but I think dstolfa is right on that
<euandreh>what are your views on porting Guix (the package manager only) to other systems, such as FreeBSD?
<drakonis>hmm, last i heard it is fine, but work has to be done
<roptat>yeah, there's guix on the hurd now
<roptat>but if the system doesn't support glibc, it might be difficult
<euandreh>is it because of the bottom packages?
<roptat>the bootstrap seeds
<euandreh>are they glibc, bash, gcc, sed, and friends?
<roptat>if you want to use something other than glibc, you'll have to introduce a very different process, which might require a lot of code, and a lot of maintenance effort
<euandreh>I get the "a lot of code" part, but not the "a lot of maintenence" part, why is that?
<ixmpp>I thought local-libcs was a thing
<roptat>you'd have to ensure packages build with your libc, maybe have variants of packages to apply libc-specific patches, ...
<roptat>it's not very clear what kind of maintenance would be involved, but last time I checked, it was a fear expressed by ludo
<drakonis>supporting freebsd is generally maintenance heavy
<drakonis>mainly due to wide swathes of software requiring freebsd patches
<euandreh>oh I see, the maintenece would be on supporting packages that rely on glibc, not on making Guix support it
<ixmpp>I was going to look into musl tbh
<ixmpp>Forgot to add it to my todos
<roptat>I don't know a lot about the bottom of the graph, so I'm not sure exactly what kind of maintenance would be involved and how different it is from supporting a different architecture
<roptat>like, how different is it to support musl vs the hurd
<roptat>but, I think there's a lot of places in Guix that assume glibc, so it might be harder to work with a different libc
<ixmpp>What about using both :p
<ixmpp>Musl where possible, glibc where not
<jackhill>there's one way to find how muw much work it would be :)
<ixmpp>Still probably get space and speed gains
<ixmpp>jackhill: Ask a contractor for a quote?
<drakonis>for good measure
<jackhill>I think part of it too is with Guix's size there is value in concentrating our efforts. Compare our archetecture support to Debian. Although we're growing!
<jackhill>ixmpp: heh
<jackhill>does musl support name-service-switch like glib? is helpful with glibc
<roptat>if musl doesn't use /etc/nsswitch, then there's no issue: the app compiled with musl will not load anything from the host glibc ;)
<ixmpp>No idea
<ixmpp>Im not well versed
<civodul>i don't think we're going to support a second libc
<civodul>we have a GCC 10 update to do in core-updates and i'm being told that alone is not so easy :-)
<ixmpp>Luckily it doesnt necessarily fall on you to support it. Guix/nix lend themselves to distributed efforts w.r.t maintenance and development, and i wish they'd both lean on that more
<ixmpp>Centralisation is the enemy, always
<nckx>Morning Guix.
<dstolfa>nckx: morning? it's almost bedtime here! :D
<ixmpp>In this frame of reference, it's morning
<tissevert>hey good morning nckx !
<boeg>I added some packages to install and now when i do guix system reconfigure i get the following error: Any idea what is causing the problem?
<boeg>well, i get this error: build of /gnu/store/c7c50h9fzvdy1k6bjaswlap2jn08ymj3-dbus-system-services.drv faile
<boeg>and then it tells me to check the log which is what is in the paste i pasted
<ixmpp>Someone's been touching your dbus
<boeg>hmm right
<ixmpp>Honestly though, no clue. Guix pull and see if it goes away :p
<boeg>i tried ... ill try again
<boeg>check this output if you dont mind. See if it gives some clue:
<jonsger>bricewge: i do not use it, no gmail or the like
<ixmpp>boeg: Is there any chance someone's *actually* been touching your dbus?
<ixmpp>(read: could your store be corrupted)
<boeg>i dunno ... I mean, something can have gone wrong? I dunno. Can i like tell guix to rebuild it completely or something?
<boeg>ixmpp ^
<boeg>see i tried to install some fonts so i can see that
<boeg>but then this happened
<ixmpp>maybe guix gc and try again
<boeg>ixmpp: well, im hoping it fixes it :)
<Guest86>When you install a program through Flatpak. How do you start it?
<pkill9>flatpak run <appname thingy>
<char>Is there some review process for guix packages. I mean not the package defenitions, but the packages themselves? Can just any package be added to guix repository so long as they have good license?
<ixmpp>One bridge at a time
<boeg>damnit ... didnt work
<ngz>char: A very large majority of packages are accepted, but a few were rejected in the past, for different reasons.
<char>ngz: so it would be reasonable to use guix as package manager for language X
<Noisytoot>Guest86: This channel is about Guix, not Flatpak
<Noisytoot>ixmpp: Minetest is good (and if you add mods, it can have as many features as the similar nonfree program that you use)
<ixmpp>you can say it's name lol
<roptat>Noisytoot, it's fine to talk about flatpak
<roptat>especially given the context ;)