<wirez>i looked at guix but went with nixos because it has way more users and activity. but its core lang nix sucks imo and guile being a simple list seems nice. im reconsidering going with nixos. anyone wanna sell me?
<nckx>What Guile meant was ‘patch-grub: undefined variable’. Incredible.
*nckx is too tired to sell anyone anything, good night.
<muradm>wirez: don't buy, go for nix, with time you will end in guix any way )
<ecbrown>i've never used nixos, i think i can contemplate its functionality. for me its scheme. i already know lisps for other reasons and i can string together some mean tranformations with a simple language usable elsewhere
<wirez>ya already looking at nix is why i didn't go deeper than a basic config. i dont wanna learn a whole kinda shitty lang to config my system, but i DO want reproducibility and declarative consolidated configs
<wirez>maintaining config via standard cm is like weak typing in a lang i don't want that i want more
<ecbrown>wirez: downside is everything takes longer than apt
<ecbrown>wirez: also i would add that guix does a good job with man pages, info pages, and the accoutrements. some of the length of time it takes seems because guix is doing something right even if its alittle expensive
<wirez>drakonis: so a guix server or workstation can be more reliable and secure and performant due to better config infrastructure?
<ecbrown>wirez: guix is the only system that reliably populates my emacs info pages
<wirez>ya i rather solid engineering, albeit slower, than the 'move fast break things' crap
<drakonis>hmm, performant depends on the hardware and software you run with
<wirez>i like iteration, that's good enough to keep up a pace
<muradm>wirez: first i skipped guix to nix due to hardware stuff, at that time it was no easy way to run on commodity hardware, after a year on nix, i switched to guix any way, mostly because of symtax issue, i understand their reasoning behind "we want to make easy syntax" for user base, but putting "funcational language" without good theory behind, that was an issue. when grasp is coming about guile scheme, and one can see that his config is
<muradm>a "program" that runs, sun rises, especially if you are developer )
<drakonis>that gave me an idea, gonna patch some software so it looks at the correct location
<muradm>later i just started to hate "configs", need script, use guile, need config, use guile, everywhere lisp, is like peace of mind. no need to understand/read about different config syntaxes of different programs.
<lispmacs[work]>just that shepherd is more compatible with a system that is trying to ensure a deterministic boot process
<ecbrown>wirez: yeah you should check out the blog posts, they are cool and pretty cutting edge imo
<wirez>if you look at distrowatch distro popularity list on the right then select more statistics then look at guix, 12 mo 6 mo 3 mo guix trending up almost breaking top 100 then past 1 mo dropped bad. any ideas why?
<dstolfa>does anyone feel here that it would be useful to have a hurd vm service take a configuration and do functional deployment of a *non-volatile* hurd VM that preserves user data? for example (service hurd-vm-service-type (hurd-configuration (config '(define %hurd-os ...)))?
*ecbrown swears to have seen such persistent hurd before
<dstolfa>i was thinking of writing something like that, because i'd like to have a hurd VM through which i proxy some commands that i run in order to exercise code paths and test hurd, but the current service seems to require you to provision it ahead of time manually from what i can see
<ecbrown>i think you can reference a vm file somewhere
<dstolfa>ecbrown: yeah, but that doesn't re-provision it right?
<dstolfa>wirez: guix can both create containers on top of it (either with dockerfiles, manually or using guix itself), and you can create VMs and containers out of your existing guix configuration (or any other configuration)
<dstolfa>however, for a lot of things that you would need containers on another operating system, in guix you can do with user profiles
<ecbrown>dstolfa: is it fair to say those are different targets of the same guix manifest?
<dstolfa>ecbrown: hmm, i wanna say yes but i'm not 100% sure
<wirez>hm and since guix is linux it can run zfs too?
<ecbrown>there are other options. i had a one-on-one with my boss where we talked about guix and his first question was whether it could be foreign basically
<ecbrown>the other is filesystem availablity. for certain data sets i think xfs is optimal
<ecbrown>in the performance/capabilites department
<dstolfa>right, so i guess the answer is to wait a bit until certain things are sorted and then prod in that direction? :D
<dstolfa>i'd basically like them to switch to guix for their hpc, but i don't really want to suggest anything too early in order for them not to get disappointed by it and then discount it in the future
<ecbrown>that would sell like hotcakes, all you ask is guix-daemon and now everything is modern
<dstolfa>i do wonder if that's a viable migration path actually. you get them to use guix for more and more things, until one day the admin goes, well screw it and does a `guix system init` on that old centos box
<wirez>so it reuses the same derivative made for it to try it with updated source and just see if it works
<wirez>has that 'auto derivative update' machinery taken work off of pkg maintainers?
<wirez>does it have a fallback option so if it can't build it it'll use the existing packaged source?
<wirez>so the model is 'install latest, or stable if needed'
<drakonis>hmm i wouldn't say it automatically falls back
<drakonis>installing the packaged version is one command away
<wirez>"The guix import crate command, for Rust packages, now honors “semantic versioning” when used in recursive mode." man that's cool, so you guys are smart enough to not make pkg maintenance manual, you're creating sets of importers to generate the derivatives automatically
<wirez>so you could make importers for whole bases of software, like appimage, freebsd packages, debiant apt i think?
<wirez>could you ever get the importers sophisticated enough to be able to have completely automatic repackaging of any software from anywhere?
<mange>I guess in theory, but in practice lots of software has non-trivial extra steps. The build systems in Guix try to package the common way to build software in various languages/environments, but if you look at package definitions there's a lot of customisation done for specific packages.
<ecbrown>there are so many types of software build that it is impossible
<ecbrown>in my limited use of some of the importers they are "starting points" rather than slam dunk conversion
<The_tubular>guix system: warning: while talking to shepherd: No such file or directory
<mange>Is there a shepherd process running? When it starts it should create a file that you can use to communicate with it. I don't know how WSL2 works, but shepherd should be running as PID1 on a Guix system.
<The_tubular>which shepherd isn't returning anything so I would have to say no ...
<mange>I'd check "ps x | grep shepherd". Using "which" will look for a binary on your PATH, but you don't have to have shepherd on your PATH for it to be running.
<The_tubular>I would have to bet it has to do with this : guix-init.sh file
<mange>If you just started things, then don't worry about it. You can find some discussion which led to that message in this issue, if you're interested https://issues.guix.gnu.org/22039, but it basically boils down to "it's *really* hard to know what to do around restarting services, so we just print that message and leave it up to the user".
<raghavgururajan>Can you run user-service for a program that is also running as system-service? For example, can I setup and run shepherd user-service for udisksd, when udisksd is already running as shepherd system-service from usdisks-service-type?
<ngz>civodul: I named the inputs as the directory I wanted to remove in the source code. So, for example, I used ("DejaVu" ,font-dejavu) so I could remove "DejaVu" directory, and still symlink (assoc-ref inputs "DejaVu").
<wirez>i heard btrfs is still having data corruption events so im leary
<dstolfa>civodul: quick question... i'd like to run hurd as a part of my system where i have a non-volatile hurd VM through which i proxy a number of commands in my day-to-day work. i've been able to get a volatile childhurd working, but when i tried to make a service for a non-volatile one, as i understand it, the VM has to be pre-provisioned and manually updated. would it makes sense to make a patch which
<dstolfa>optionally updates the hurd VM (but doesn't touch user data) as a part of `guix system reconfigure`?
<dstolfa>wirez: i've been running btrfs for a while and had no issues, it's pretty stable these days
<efraim>I use btrfs with zstd compression and no special features (like snapshotting), I've been very happy with it for a few years now
<wirez>either of you run btrfs in enterprise storage context?
<mfg>Hi, what exactly is necessary to get libgcc_s into an environment? afaiu it's part of the gcc package's lib output, but the gcc package cannot be directly used and gcc-toolchain doesn't have it?!
<dstolfa>depends on what you mean by 'enterprise storage' :)
<civodul>dstolfa: i don't think the childhurd vm should be made non-volatile, even optionally; sounds too tricky to get right
<civodul>and also very much "against the spirit" of this thing
<civodul>but you can easily cross-build a childhurd and run it manually, statefully and all
<dstolfa>civodul: hmm, how would one say, put an ssh private key inside the childhurd statefully in this case?
<dstolfa>one thing i'd like to do is run ansible over ssh in the childhurd vm instead of natively, just to exercise code paths in hurd
<civodul>danialbehzadi[m]: hi! it's to inform you that the source tarball your package refers to is not archived, but there's not much you can do about it
<boeg>hi, I'm trying to install guix on a Thinkpad and have created a USB installation thing as per the documentation, and when I boot from the USB I just get "error: unknown filesystem", "entering rescue mode...", "grub rescue>". Any ideas as to what I have done wrong?
<danialbehzadi[m]>civodul: Oh, I see. So it's not a problem when submitting new packages… Thanks
<YeetusDeletus>How do you define a user specific package configuration? From reading through the cookbook about manifests, and looking at daviwil's and other peoples dotfiles, I still can't find any examples of actually declarative configuring of packages aside from just adding them to the system through a manifest file. E.g. in Nix you can define configurations
<YeetusDeletus>@civodul: (not sure if I'm calling names correctly, been a while since I've used that in IRC). What I was thinking of was declarative defining the configuration of a package, in the sense that you configure the settings of something through something like a manifest. Not sure if Guix Home achieves this or not.
<yoctocell>YeetusDeletus: that config looks very much like nix home manager, guix home is basically the guix equivalent of nix home manager. we don't have an mpv service/configuration yet, only more basic things like git, bash, zsh, emacs
<abcdw>ixmpp: fish is not a POSIX shell and it's not very good idea to use it as login shell. I suggest to use bash/zsh as a login and fish as a default shell. I personally use bash (passwd) as a login shell and zsh as a default shell ($SHELL).
<yoctocell>ixmpp probably has some interesting stuff too
<boeg>When trying to run the graphical installer, I choose "whole disk and encryption" and then press Ok to the suggestion partition layout and then get an error "No such file or directory: /dev/nvme0n1p1" Any idea what is up?
<ruffni>civodul: `./pre-inst-env guix style` gives me "No such file or dir" errors. it's trying to open files from non-standard guix channels (which fails for some reason). (how) is it possible to work around?
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<solene>Guest4947: I recommend you arandr which is a GUI for xrandr
<solene>it's quite easy to use and shouldn't pull much dependencies
<The_tubular>Dumb question, when I try to "clear" my terminal, it says command not found, I suppose it is not set on my path, if so, how can I set it ?
<leoprikler>install the command that has it (probably ncurses?)
<ixmpp>hey, is there by chance anywhere an (inferior-package->package)
<ixmpp>because i have the slight issue that now i want to pass an inferior-package to a slot that accepts package
<ixmpp>and for some reason, that doesn't seem to be allowed!
<ixmpp>while people who might be able to answer that are waking up, i'm going to ghetto a nasty solution myself using copy-build-system so i have something that works, and as incentive for y'all to help
<lispmacs[work]>hi, I am trying out building all my system and user packages without substitutes. On some of the larger builds keep getting killed, apparently due to memory exhaustion. I've got 8 GBs of memory and only about 4GBs of that is used by the the system, the DE, and the other applications. Is 4GB really not enough to build some packages, or do I need to tweak some system parameter to give processes access to more memory..
<apfel>hi there, what makes emacs prettify scheme files from /gnu/store? For example /gnu/store/...-boot will be prettified, but a copy of this file will not be prettyfied. Is there some default guix module responsible for this? There is nothing special in find-file-hook, any ideas? I like this feature, but i want to know where it comes from.
<ngz>apfel: Hello. This is done with guix-prettify.el library.
<apfel>ngz: hm, this does not look like its correct. This mode only shortens the file names by replacing hashes with '...'. I am talking about generated scheme files, when i open them in emacs.