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<cbaines>civodul, I can also see how I'm misusing the request-accept thing, so I'll fix that at some point tomorrow too
<Formbi>the files appeear in the profile, but texlive can't find them automatically
<jonsger>when is release planned?
<vagrantc>April 18th!
<jonsger>? thats in the past
<jonsger>I guess you mean May 18th
<jonsger>so next week
<vagrantc>i think apteryx has been working hard all day to get it out today, but will need a large UTC offset to release on April 18th
*jonsger is confused
<Formbi>rekado: it also doesn't work with an ad-hoc environment
<civodul>vagrantc: those timezone things are crazy
<civodul>it'll be released on April 18th (UTC-624)
<jackhill>Formbi: `guix environmet --ad-hoc texlive-bin texlive-lm` fails to even build for me: --ad-hoc texlive-bin texlive-lm
<vagrantc>jonsger: sorry, being playful ... the original plan was to release on April 18th, but ... some bumps along the way
<vagrantc>is there a way to use grub-efi but not actually mangle the efi variables?
<Formbi>I use texlive-tiny
<vagrantc>when i run guix system init onto removable media, it mangles the server's efi variables
<vagrantc>s,server,host machine,
<jackhill>Formbi: ah, indeed, I can create the environment that way. I'm afraid that I won't be much help to you since I don't understand how all the tex stuff fits together :/
<vagrantc>i definitely want it to install the bootloader, just not mangle the efi variables...
<jackhill>how did you know to use texlive-tiny over texlive-bin?
<Formbi>I asked if there's a texlive-minimal here :D
<jackhill>ah :)
<jackhill>Formbi: can you try adding texlive-bin to your environment? I was able to reproduce the problem with the hyperref package (a document I had handy needed it), and texlive-tiny and texlive-latex-hyperref were not enough, but creating an environment with all three worked.
<jackhill>I wonder if this warrents a special section of the manual, or perhaps a cookbook entry.
<Formbi>should it even be like that?
<jackhill>Formbi: I have no idea how it should be, but think it does work that way becasue texlive-bin defines search paths:, but texlive-tiny, which inherits from texlive-union does not
<vivien_>When the texlive build fails on my system, it’s because there’s not enough free space on my root partition
<jackhill>Maybe we need to have a texlive-install-this-one that propagates texlive-bin and texlive-tiny
<jackhill>vivien_: I assume that's because you're using the all-in-one texlive package that's a few GiBs? I think that's why we're trying to make use of these smaller packages
<vivien_>jackhill, you nailed it. I had a few bad encounters with minimal texlive packages in debian, in which I was missing a package, so I installed a less minimalist version, but then the missing package missed a few more packages, so I ended up always using the full package
<jackhill>vivien_: that's interesting to hear that it's not just Guix with minimal texlive gotchas. I've ended up installin the full texlive in a different profile than my main one. That way I avoid getting surprised by hours-long work when updating my default profile :)
<vivien_>jackhill, I have the same bandwidth problems!
<Formbi>hmm, maybe in my case it's also pandoc inserting trash into the file
<raghavgururajan>how often does guix website rebuilds?
<flatwhatson>how do i declare that my package conflicts with another when installed to the same profile?
<flatwhatson>specifically emacs-pgtk-native-comp-git and emacs don't play nice, but i'm not sure how to warn/prevent people from doing this
<flatwhatson>they "don't play nice" because they both set EMACSLOADPATH
<ryanprior>flatwhatson: I don't think there's a way to make packages exclusive like this. Maybe ask on the mailing list whether we can use a different env variable (PGTK_EMACSLOADPATH?) for one package to avoid this?
<flatwhatson>problem is that other emacs packages add themselves to EMACSLOADPATH too, expecting that whichever emacs you use will find them there
<Formbi>ok, I sorted out some stuff and now tex says:
<Formbi>mktexpk: don't know how to create bitmap font for ec-lmri8.
<Formbi>on the internet I found stuff like that: « in ~/.texmf-var that had been created before the installation of lmodern. Hence is did not contain the entries for the lm fonts and shadowed the correct in /var/lib/texmf.»
<Formbi>how would that look in Guix?
<pkill9>i want to create a hybrid application browser and launcher
<pkill9>something that lets you browse information and screenshots on applications, but with the keyboard accessibility of an application launcher
<drakonis> some interesting nix changes
<drakonis>this one's pretty exciting
<pkill9>what is it?
<drakonis>the rfc might explain much better than i ever could
<drakonis>but the real good thing here
<drakonis>is that its main purpose is to be able to evaluate lazily derivations and make them available
<drakonis>so you could include an entire language package manager repository without maintaining individual derivations
<drakonis>it brings an end to needing importers
<pkill9>why would it do that?
<drakonis>because nix offers entire snapshots that have to be manually updated from time to time
<drakonis>ie: all of hackage
<drakonis>the advantage here is much stronger adaptability to the presence of third party software that is developed without the intention of ever being packaged
<drakonis>one thing it also does here
<drakonis>is that it gets rid of issues regarding package pinning
<drakonis>so you can have access to something like node packages without having to pull in all of npm
<drakonis>in guix terms, this would let you lazily evaluate the result of a guix import command
<drakonis>when building an environment
<pkill9>often you have to make changes to the package thou
<pkill9>the package that's imported
<pkill9>well, generated by the import command
<drakonis>for a repository with nix's size
<drakonis>it has every package
<drakonis>so its not a huge deal
<drakonis>it also has a big infrastructure for using generated packagesets
<drakonis>there would technically be a few packages that still need patching on the side, like python packages
<drakonis>but it would work extremely well with things like opam and hackage
<drakonis>as they're inherently self contained
<drakonis>it would also be perfect with pulling from cran and bioconductor for R and cpan for perl
<drakonis>this is a particular use case for the rfc
<drakonis>there are other useful ones
<drakonis>anyways, this is called a dynamic derivation
<pkill9>could guix have such functionality?
<drakonis>it probably could
<drakonis>i think it still needs to get rid of the nix daemon to achieve it?
<drakonis>or maybe do it all with guile?
<drakonis>there also are a lot of other fancy tricks that can be used with it
<drakonis>its interesting that it can be used to replace build systems entirely
<drakonis>like cmake, make, ninja and meson.
<drakonis>its worth checking the rfc
<lispmacs>hi, I was wanting to rebuild a store item (vice) from source, but was a little confused on how to do this. both `guix build --check vice' and `guix build --no-substitutes --check vice' are completed in about 2 seconds, so it can't be rebuilding the package
<iskarian>lispmacs[work], I can repro. I'm not sure why, but adding --no-grafts makes it build.
<iskarian>to be clear, that was the standard 'guix install vice', which downloaded a substitute and added it to the store... then a 'guix build --check --no-grafts vice' was required to make it re-build
***iyzsong-- is now known as iyzsong-w
<iskarian>Without --no-grafts, it just grafted vice from another vice store item.
*apteryx just merged version-1.3.0 into master. If building the translated manuals give you grief, try: find -name *.??.texi -delete && ./bootstrap
<brendyyn>apteryx: are you maxim?
<brendyyn>ok i had no idea
<marusich>Hello, Guix.
<marusich>how are you today apteryx?
<raghavgururajan>1.3.0 🎉️
<apteryx>raghav summed up my feelings well
<apteryx>I think only the email announcement needs to be made now... pending the website coming up along the latest version of the manual
<apteryx>scheduled in 40 minutes
<apteryx>that gives me some time to write that email
<marusich>I'm actually testing rc2 right now on powerpc64le-linux, heh
<marusich>I'm sure it'll be fine because it was fine on the rc1 version
<marusich>I'm excited!
<apteryx>v1.3.0 is already on the GNU FTP, if you want to give it a try!
<marusich>I still need to troubleshoot a mountain of issues, like the "check" package not working
<marusich>apteryx, neat, is it identical to rc2?
<marusich>I guess I'll just grab it and see
<apteryx>marusich: mostly! I think just small translation issues got fixed + SPICE resolution resizing in the VM
<apteryx>roptat: another mmap(PROT_NONE) failed building the doc on berlin
<apteryx>sneek: later tell civodul any idea what this means: "announce-gen: none of guix-1.3.0.tar.gz, guix-1.3.0.tar.bz2, guix-1.3.0.tar.lz, guix-1.3.0.tar.lzma, guix-1.3.0.tar.xz were found"; there's a tar.gz on the ftp and I've passed --url-directory=
*vagrantc sees a tarball and a new v1.3.0 tag
<apteryx>roptat: the log of the derivation failing w.r.t. translated manuals:
<apteryx>it's deja-vu
<apteryx>sneek: later tell civodul OK, got it with a bit of Perl studying; cp gnulib/build-aux/announce-gen ~/.local/bin && cd ~/src/guix/release-1.3.0 && announce-gen [...] --srcdir=..
<sneek>Got it.
<apteryx>it wanted to find the tarballs in the CWD
<apteryx>actually, replace --srcdir=.. by just --news=../NEWS
<apteryx>announce-gen made useful with that tarballs hack: my @tarballs = glob("*.[xlg]z *.qcow2 *.iso");
<apteryx>I'm a bit unsure about announce-gen's --bootstrap-tools argument. Is this intended for all the build (native) inputs?
<tissevert>hello guix
***iyzsong-- is now known as iyzsong-w
<apteryx>sneek: later tell civodul I've got the announcement mail all ready to go, but was waiting for to update to 1.3.0 (I've reconfigured berlin a couple hours ago with your commit)
<apteryx>I just sent it now, as the timing is good and most links in the announcement work OK, although we should fix it ASAP.
<apteryx>in the blog post I mean*
*apteryx zzzz
<tissevert>how pervasively do you folks use guix ? do you use a guix «package» to describe presentation you're compiling from Markdown to pdf with pandoc ? or do you simply have pandoc installed in your environment (or open up a dedicated environment with pandoc in it ?)
<vivien_>tissevert, the former except it’s in org-mode converted with emacs
<tissevert>vivien_: thanks ! well I don't know how to use emacs but surely I can do something similar with pandoc right ?
<leoprikler>tissevert: of course, just guix environment --ad-hoc pandoc or guix install pandoc
<tissevert>no, I meant writing a «package» calling pandoc as the «compiler»
<tissevert>(is there a jargon for this ? I think nix uses «derivation», what is the guile equivalent ?)
<leoprikler>oh, sure, you can do that, but I don't think it's necessary
<leoprikler>Guile packages map to Nix derivations.
<tissevert>hmmm sorry that was my question ^^
<leoprikler>So do origins, operating systems, GWL outputs…
<tissevert>I thought what vivien_ had said described a compilation process with a proper guile package
<cbaines>Guix has a Guile representation of derivations too, but there are higher level representations too (like packages and G-expressions)
<tissevert>because I've seen civodul mention that about a literate programming document in a talk on monday and I was wondering if it was just technically possible and satisfying or a must-have for everyday's tasks
<leoprikler>tissevert: I think you misunderstood them, they don't use Guile packages to compile their presentations, they compile them ad-hoc with {emacs,pandoc,...}
<leoprikler>technically possible, not a must-have
<tissevert>thanks ! : )
<leoprikler>if you want to look into a Guix-related "Makefile" stuff, that constructs environments on-the-fly, look at GWL
<leoprikler>note that it's somewhat geared towards scientific workflows though
<tissevert>cbaines: so you mean derivations are a different level of object compared to packages ?
<tissevert>Oo that looks awesome
<cbaines>tissevert, yeah
<cbaines>In the Guile code, there are different record types for derivations and packages
<cbaines>(derivations actually use a few records)
<tissevert>is the «derivation» the content of the whole file describing packages by means of (define-public …) statements and «package» a statement of the form (package (name …) … (license …)) ?
<cbaines>Not quite, derivations don't inherently involve scheme, although Guix uses Guile code for the builder for lots of derivations, there's some information in the manual
<cbaines>I did a presentation a few years ago which tried to explain derivations a bit as well
<tissevert>hmm I think I've seen it already ! but a good reminder never hurts, thanks !
<vivien_>I did not know about --with-latest
<vivien_>It looks promising
<tissevert>it's really hard to read though, what with the text covering a part of the slide, and the long text having to be scrolled in the tiny window
<Pascallor>Hi! Congratulations on the release of guix 1.3.0
<Pascallor>The online manual does not seem to be up to date: leads to an error 404 and I could not find that node in the table of contents either.
<vivien_>I second Pascallor, I can’t find a way to turn on the new local discovery of substitutes
<Pascallor>(the link is from the announcement)
<vivien_>I can’t build guile --with-latest, the test-out-of-memory fails. Do you have this problem too?
<Pascallor>vivien I'll try that and get back to you
<Pascallor>guix package's auto-complete does not suggest --export-manifest for me. Is that normal? The option works.
<taylan>probably hasn't been added to the autocomplete metadata yet since it's new?
<PotentialUser-60>I have this problem:
<PotentialUser-60>I hate this Guix problem!
<PotentialUser-60>Please fix it forever!
<tissevert>it's something you've had before ?
<tissevert>what's the context ? have you freshly installed guix ? is it on another system (Debian ?) or on guixSD ?
<PotentialUser-60>several time
<tissevert>what does the log file says ? is there something relevant about this compilation failure ?
<PotentialUser-60>On the Guix System
<tissevert>anyway I see that the substitute is missing in guix weather, so that explains why your system is trying to build it locally
<tissevert>and as for why it fails, I don't know but I've had similar troubles with vim-full
<tissevert>all packages aren't perfect because the packages' own build process may have weird side effects sometimes
<tissevert>(I think the one I faced was about a test running too slow…)
<civodul>Hi Guix!
<sneek>civodul, you have 3 messages!
<sneek>civodul, apteryx says: any idea what this means: "announce-gen: none of guix-1.3.0.tar.gz, guix-1.3.0.tar.bz2, guix-1.3.0.tar.lz, guix-1.3.0.tar.lzma, guix-1.3.0.tar.xz were found"; there's a tar.gz on the ftp and I've passed --url-directory=
<sneek>civodul, apteryx says: OK, got it with a bit of Perl studying; cp gnulib/build-aux/announce-gen ~/.local/bin && cd ~/src/guix/release-1.3.0 && announce-gen [...] --srcdir=..
<sneek>civodul, apteryx says: I've got the announcement mail all ready to go, but was waiting for to update to 1.3.0 (I've reconfigured berlin a couple hours ago with your commit)
<tissevert>hi civodul
<civodul>looks like we have a new release out there! :-)
<tissevert>PotentialUser-60: in any case you can sort of «pin» the packages that sometimes fail by not making them part of your system and making sure they are available as substitute before upgrading
<tissevert>I do that for chromium and libreoffice and it's really nice
*civodul updates the manual
<PotentialUser-60>tissevert: Excuse me, I'm a newcomer, what exactly should I do now?
<tissevert>I haven't been here for long either so I hope I'm not saying anything wrong but if I understand your situation correctly, I'd just say:
<tissevert>1. read the compilation log file: bzless /var/log/guix/drvs/vl/zrszqn9kj9x8lzyqh4144pq569ggab-phodav-2.5.drv.bz2
<tissevert>2. if it looks like something transient, try again or simply watch the availability of a substitute using «guix weather phodav»
<tissevert>2'. if it looks like something serious about this package and it doesn't build anywhere for no one, then investigate into why this package stopped compiling
<tissevert>does that help a bit ? (@others did I miss something or is that a reasonable course of action given the report ?)
<leoprikler>2. could still be a reproducibility issue depending on the circumstances, but yeah
<PotentialUser-60>tissevert: Thanks...
<tissevert>: )
<PotentialUser-24>Any help for phodav problem :/
<PotentialUser-24>Oh, Bye…
***ChanServ sets mode: +o civodul
***civodul changes topic to 'GNU Guix | 1.3.0 is out! | videos: | bugs & patches: | paste: | Guix in high-performance computing: | This channel's logged:'
***ChanServ sets mode: -o civodul
<civodul>apteryx: manual updated, everything's in order!
<civodul>apteryx: congrats, and thanks a lot for all the work!
<flatwhatson>so much good stuff!
<PotentialUser-96>hi all, i want to install Guix System as LXQt desktop. is it possible? i will use "Guided Graphical Installation" on my old netbook. i think this will give only a tty after reboot. i can connect internet only wi-fi. can somebody help, please?
<Formbi>I think it won't
<civodul>PotentialUser-96: hi! if you choose LXQt (or GNOME, Xfce, etc.) in the guided installer, it'll give you a graphical desktop when you reboot
<PotentialUser-96>thanks civodul; it is not clear on documentation or i could not see.
<PotentialUser-96>ok then time to install :) bye...
<pkill9>has there been any work on adding file listings to guix data service? if not, where would you start?
<Pascallor>vivien_ `guix build guile --with-latest=guile` just finished successfully
<marusich>Congrats on 1.3.0! Time to go to sleep for me :)
<mbakke>"Linux-libre 5.9.3" in the 1.3.0 release notes does not look quite correct :)
<civodul>mbakke: oh, can you fix it?
<civodul>i wonder if it was a copy/paste issue
*civodul goes afk for a while
<mbakke>civodul: fixed :)
<avalenn>congrats for the release
<avalenn>I see you publicized the Go importer in the release anouncement.
<avalenn>The shortcomings of current go-build-system with multi-packages Go modules will become a big pain point. I hope to propose something simple next week to workaround the problem.
<roptat>hi guix!
<bone-baboon>I am having trouble setting up a channel for a substitute server. Can a channel use an ssh url? The manual only gives examples of https urls for channels. The manual does not say which protocols are supported (ssh, git). Further information on what I am stuck at:
<rekado_>Formbi: remove texlive-tiny; it’s only useful for packaging.
<rekado_>Formbi: instead install texlive-base and whatever package you need.
<rekado_>Formbi: what you found on the internet about dotfiles for TeX doesn’t apply here.
<jeko>Hi there !
<rekado_>when you install texlive-base Guix will build the TeX configuration for you, which will find all texlive-* packages you have installed in the same profile.
<jeko>I can't update my profile unless I remove a package from my manifest because it seems broken. Is there an option to say to Guix, let's skip broken ones?
<jeko>(speaking about texlive… haha)
<rekado_>not with a manifest, no
<rekado_>what’s broken?
<rekado_>you *can* specify in your manifest that you want to use certain packages from an older version of Guix.
<rekado_>look up “inferior” in the manual for more information
<jeko>Ah I can look at that !
<jeko>My manifest refers texlive-bin which needs texlive-configuration
<jeko>which failed to build.
<rekado_>how did it fail?
<rekado_>there used to be a bug in the profile hook
<rekado_>what version of Guix do you use?
<jeko>guix (GNU Guix) f8a4724c101880892640dcc2fe3438dc2a26b624
<rekado_>that’s after what I had hoped would fix the problem…
<rekado_>is texlive-bin the only texlive package in the manifest?
<rekado_>(I’d like to reproduce this)
<civodul>mbakke: thanks!
<civodul>avalenn: looking forward to improvements in this area
<rekado_>jeko: I cannot reproduce this with just texlive-bin in the manifest.
<civodul>bone-baboon: i think "no auth sock available" means SSH_AUTH_SOCK is unset, which in turn probably means there's no ssh agent running (either 'ssh-agent' or 'gpg-agent --enable-ssh-support')
*rekado_ tries with more emacs stuff
<emacs-user75>not sure if this was reported yet but the new installer restarts when you click on encrypt whole system
<jeko>Hmm I did thought I could came from a kind of conflict between packages
<jeko>I did not*
<rekado_>jeko: added back all the emacs stuff and I still can’t reproduce this.
<rekado_>let me try with a more recent guix
<BlackShift>\whois "atom`"
<jeko>in the default profile i have glibc-locales fontconfig and guile-studio
<BlackShift>wrong slash, anyway, I wanted to thank atom` for connecting to eduroam with guix
<rekado_>jeko: that shouldn’t matter
<civodul>HN discussion:
<rekado_>“obligatory” nix comparison…
*rekado_ rolls eyes
<rekado_>jeko: reproduced it with a more recent guix
<rekado_>jeko: that’s a bug. Could you please replace “texlive-bin” with “texlive-base” and see if that’s okay?
<rekado_>(it works for me)
<rekado_>texlive-base includes texlive-bin
<rekado_>civodul: something went wrong when I hit submit — the title is chopped off.
<jeko>rekado_: Ok I try
<jeko>rekado_: It' OK for me too with texlive-base
<rekado_>I suppose the texlive-configuration hook just needs to be “hooked” to texlive-base then :)
<jeko>I have absolutely no idea haha. I can declare a bug if it can help haha
<vldn>how to escape a quoted list inside a quoted list..? xD
<vldn>e.g. adding a defined variable with additional items for the list.. like '("item1" "item2" %additionalitems) ..
<PotentialUser-71>all packages building from source when installing guix system?
<vldn>nope there a substitute server @ PotentialUser-71
<vldn>that download binaries
<vldn>*let you
<vldn>but you can build all from source and ignore the substitute servers
<PotentialUser-71>why takes too long install?
<vldn>maybe you don't activated it upon installing the system? or do you use any additional channels?
<civodul>rekado_: do you feel like turning into a blog post one of these days? :-)
<civodul>"The Frequently Asked Question"
<apteryx>civodul: hi! Thanks for updating the manual1 What did I miss?
<civodul>apteryx: hey, thanks a lot for everything, you rock!
<civodul>apteryx: for the manual, it's a bit inconvenient
<vldn>try "info guix substitute"
<vldn>or this : @ PotentialUser-71
<bone-baboon>civodul: Thank you. I have run `ssh-agent` and taken the environment variables it outputs and run `SSH_AUTH_SOCK=/tmp/ssh-XXXXXXhVZFkz/agent.15637 SSH_AGENT_PID=15638 guix pull` it outputs a new error "guix pull: error: Git error: Failed to retrieve list of SSH authentication methods: Failed getting response".
<mothacehe> apteryx: yeah, kudos to you :)
<civodul>apteryx: after reconfigure, you have to "herd restart mcron" so it runs the new jobs, including the one that builds the manual from version-1.3.0 instead of version-1.2.0
<civodul>if you don't do that, it keeps building from version-1.2.0
<PotentialUser-71>vldn thanks
<apteryx>ah, I see :-) I'll add this bit to doc/
<apteryx>civodul: I always mis a 'run' or 'test' action to mcron
<apteryx>to tell it 'just run it now'
<civodul>apteryx: ah yes, i typically run "herd schedule mcron" and then "sudo - static-web-site -c /gnu/store/" or similar
<PotentialUser-71>it ask about a server about LAN i select "no"
<civodul>it's terrible!
<civodul>bone-baboon: hmm no sure what that means
<apteryx>mothacehe: thank you!
<bone-baboon>civodul: I was just starting a web search for that error message.
<civodul>apteryx: regarding the manual, we should have something more dynamic where we can switch without reconfiguring
<vldn>you already have the guix binary running? @ PotentialUser-71?
<apteryx>civodul: thanks to you, for this one and past releases too! I can now fully appreciate the amount of energy spent toward producing a release. We should try to automate it some more :-)
<civodul>apteryx: definitely, we can do better; now you know ;-)
<civodul>i'd like to avoid the 2nd commit/rebuild, for instance
<PotentialUser-71>vldn, i am not sure. this is this first time with Guix System
<apteryx>yes, that'd be nice. Also perhaps teach the update-guix-package script that if there's nothing new to update to, don't.
<apteryx>toward a reentrant 'make release'
<vldn>i don't know which installing method you are using for guix system
<apteryx>and with a single commit bump, we could parallelize the binary and images generation instead of having them made sequentially, speeding things up
<vldn>but you have to add as a substitute server and authorize it with "guix archive --authorize < prefix/share/guix/" where prefix is the installing directory of guix, you can search for it system-wide with find / -iname ""
<vldn>before running the guix system init command
<emacs-user75>not sure if this was reported yet but the new installer restarts when you click on encrypt whole system
<mothacehe>emacs-user75: no that's probably a new issue. Do you think you could send a mail to explaining the steps you followed and the initial partionning of your hard drive? That would be very much appreciated :)
<vldn>some guile wizards here? -> how to escape a quoted list inside a quoted list..? xD e.g. adding a defined variable with additional items for the list.. like '("item1" "item2" %additionalitems) ..
<civodul>apteryx: just noticed that still mentions "xz -d"
<mothacehe>vldn: you can write something like `("item1" "item2" ,%additionalitems)
<vldn>ahhhh the ,
<vldn> ty! so easy could it be.. :D
<PotentialUser-ag>it is going...
<PotentialUser-ag>2 or more hours :)
<vldn>maybe trying to add --cores=4 (your number of cores in your pc) and --no-grafts commandline options
<vldn>then you can hopp this step
<vldn>but grafts are security updates and highly recommended :)
<vldn>experimenting with guix will be a lot of trial and error in the first place but thanks to the system you can't destroy so much.. :D have fun!
<PotentialUser-ag>thanks now "initializing OS under /mnt"
<PotentialUser-ag>i think final step :)
<vldn>if the bootloader and all is configured right.. :D you'll see
<PotentialUser-ag>ok thanks but guix is really diffent and interesting; thanks for developing :)
<apteryx>civodul: good catch
<apteryx>it also mentions 'guix system vm-image below'
<vldn>mhh Wrong type argument in position 1 (expecting string): @ mothacehe
<apteryx>civodul: this can't be changed on version-1.3.0 due to the string freeze though, no?
<mothacehe>vldn: could you paste some more context using
<vldn>(define %additionalItems '("item3" "item3"))
<vldn>(define %additionalItems `("item2" "item3"))
<vldn>(display `("item1" ,%additionalItems))
<vldn>there are brackets in the output, that could be the problem: (item1 (item2 item3))
<apteryx>civodul: what do you think of:
<roptat>civodul, et les autres francophones, j'ai commencé une traduction :
<mothacehe>vldn: (display `("item1" ,@%additionalItems)) should work as expected
<vldn>jep ty!
<vldn>where could i get more infos about the , and @ ?
<mothacehe>search for quasiquote and unquote-splicing
<jeko>roptat: cool
<roptat>jeko, je suis pas contre un peu d'aide :)
<tissevert>roptat: je vais voir si l'inscription marche mieux que chez fedora ; )
<jeko>roptat: faudrait que je retrouve mes identifiants linuxfr haha et j'aurai peut etre un peu de temps ce soir si c'est pas trop tard
<roptat>tissevert, toujours pas réussi ?
<tissevert>nope : )
<vivien_>Dommage qu’il n’y ait pas l’accent à publié dans l‘URL :(
<tissevert>ok their account creation process is really slick Oo
<tissevert>I'm in, but still looking how I can change the generated password sent in clear text by e-mail ^^
<apteryx>civodul: I've corrected the VM decompression part + 'vm-image' on master with 55aa50834f.
<apteryx>civodul: the address bounced. What should it be updated with?
<apteryx>phoronix is quick:
<rekado_>they must have copied from HN, because they say it’s 1.3 instead of 1.3.0
<mbakke>efraim: thanks for bf8f33c31fe68ae0479ed6bc2c762dae99318562, I was wondering why many packages are 6 MiB smaller on core-updates :-)
<raghavgururajan>Hello Guix!
<bone-baboon>Does `guix pull` use libgit internally?
<leoprikler>probably yes
<bone-baboon>leoprikler: Thanks
<pkill9>what is the name of that backend-agnostic package manager, i think it may be a GNOME project
<leoprikler>PackageKit, GNOME Software
<pkill9>packagekit yea i think that's it
<pkill9>i remember it having a slightly obscure name
<bavier[m]>pkill9: packagekit?
<pkill9>i want to take an existing frontend for a graphical application store, and have it use guix instead
<pkill9>or package manager, not sure yet, or why not both
<pkill9>application store will only work when guix data service provides file lists for packages, and lets you download individual files
<pkill9>so you can see which packages provide applications
<pkill9>then again idk, maybe just better to maintain it externally
<pkill9>that would work
<civodul>apteryx: oh yes, you can remove nix-dev@, i think it no longer exists (and they must be tired of Guix ;-))
<civodul>roptat: chouette !
<roptat>civodul, on a presque fini avec tissevert :)
<apteryx>on the HN news about the release, someones says 'Shepherd is pretty slow' compared to OpenRC; I find that hard to believe. Any one in the know?
<raingloom>pkill9: afaik people have looked into that and guix's packaging being very different makes things difficult
<civodul>tissevert, roptat: bravo à vous deux alors !
<tissevert>c'est pas fini encore hein
<civodul>apteryx: Shepherd is "slow" compared to systemd because it doesn't start services lazily currently ("socket activation")
<civodul>i don't know OpenRC, but my understanding is that it's not this sophisticated
<pkill9>just need to monitor a guix profile and use guix commands
<pkill9>I think a simple server that shows a webpage of packages and executes commands could be a decent prototype
<apteryx>civodul: yeah, comparing to systemd I'm sure, as systemd seems to go all-in on optimizing for speed
<apteryx>(at the cost of complexity)
<tissevert>in the «Developer tools» section, states that «Packages and developers may also like»
<tissevert>isn't a 'r' missing ?
<tissevert>do Guix packages actually have feelings ?
<apteryx>but with OpenRC, I'd expect them to be in the same performance ball park (but I'm just assuming, never having used OpenRC myself!)
<vivien_>I think shepherd is also slow because it reads things from the store, and reading from the store is slow
<apteryx>why is reading from the store slow? because of symlink indirections?
<vivien_>There was a discussion earlier
<civodul>tissevert: good point! i think we meant "packagers" here
<civodul>though *maybe* packages do have feelings, who knows
<tissevert>I know right ? ^^
<vivien_>It’s not what hard drives are used to
<tissevert>too bad, I would've loved to be using a distribution with sentient packages
<tissevert>and *that* would set it apart other package distribution systems much more than reproducibility
<civodul>oh for sure
<civodul>until we have evidence that packages are sentient, i added a 'r' in guix-artwork.git
<tissevert>geat !
<apteryx>civodul: about the '--bootstrap-tools' option to the announce-gen script, I noticed its output was not used in the 1.2.0 release announcement. Should we remove it from our doc?
<apteryx>it doesn't support all the tools that we build Guix from (I tried)
<apteryx>one example was sqlite3 IIRC
*beigel[m] uploaded an image: (78KiB) < >
<beigel[m]>Anyone know why I might be getting that error whenever I try to do anything with guix in Emacs? That's from M-x Guix p a
<ruffni>i set up a new guix machine, installed iptables (via `guix install iptables`) but `which iptables` doesn't find the newly installed binary. is this intentional? did i miss something?
<tissevert>civodul: there's also a dead link on : [refer to its documentation]( just before Performance
<tissevert>done ! (give or take a couple re-reading / appropriate fixes)
<drakonis>apteryx: you want to post it on the nix discourse
<drakonis>civodul: is it viable to do this in guix?
<nckx>Top of the morning Guix.
<nckx>tissevert: <distribution with sentient packages> Until you have to kill a child process.
<nckx>janneke: Which ‘rebuild cycle’ does <> mean?
<janneke>nckx: a world rebuild when merging core-updates
<nckx>I hear 1.3.0 is out \o/ (because someone reported its ‘first’ bug, but still \o/)
<nckx>janneke: Is sudo a world-rebuild package on the Hurd!?
<nckx>I need to stop updating it on master if so.
<pineapples>Since 1.3.0 is out, is there any ETA for merging core-upates? In some thread on the guix-devel mailing list, I read this has been long overdue
<jonsger>congrats on the release
<jonsger>from which commit where the ISOs build? I guess it's the one tagged with v1.3.0, but I'm not sure...
<janneke>nckx: good question...i'm puzzled! only two packages seem dependent on sudo, same for the Hurd?
<nckx>I was puzzled too and thought perhaps you knew (or forgot 😉) something that I don't.
<nckx>I'll go ahead and remove it if there's no Hurd-only magic after all.
<janneke>nckx: that's what i wondered too: am i missing something, or was this just an honest mistake at the time...
<janneke>nckx: good, thanks
<nckx>Later; I'll let you think at your leisure.
<janneke>i do remember that in getting the hurd image to build, we needed a number of such changes and most would trigger world rebuilds
<janneke>i'll see if i can refresh my memory
<civodul>drakonis: "plan dynamism" looks a lot like
<civodul>though it also includes "recursive Nix" IIUC
<civodul>the examples they give (running cabal2Nix) don't make much sense in Guix because we can just as well run importers "live"
<civodul>close to what --with-latest does
<nckx>Hullo pepe6060.
<civodul>that's one of the nice things of having a general-purpose language :-)
<apteryx>jonsger: v1.3.0 + 2 commits (see the release target of for the details)
<apteryx>so, fb5d04d363
<vagrantc>i guess the + 2 commits is due to a bit of chicken-and-egg problem?
<pepe6060>i'd like to try guix, but I don't know how to use wifi, my laptop has an AX201. Is this supported anyhow?
<vagrantc>pepe6060: many wifi interfaces aren't supported, as they require non-free drivers
<pepe6060>vagrantc: is there a way to use non-free drivers in guix?
<vagrantc>it's possible, but a bit taboo
<apteryx>vagrantc: it is so that the images generated know the guix package corresponding to the tagged sources
<apteryx>yeah, some chicken & egg problem :-)
<apteryx>pepe6060: GNU Guix being committed to free software, you won't get help or support for running proprietary software here; that said, if you understand the risks and still choose to do so, there's nothing technically stopping you.
<apteryx>pepe6060: wifi drivers is a known problem; the common solution we can suggest is to use one of the available dongles or adapters that come with good free driver/firmware support. Some suggestions can be found here:
<pepe6060>apteryx: thx
<pepe6060>are there current laptops with supported (built-in) wifi?
<vagrantc>some laptops allow you to swap the wifi card out, though there may be complications there too
<apteryx>I happen to own a 2011 (?) Dell VostroV130 that does. Ancient. Also have thinkpad x200 that I'm currently using with a ath9K based USB dongle (pending me flashing the BIOS with something like Libreboot which should get rid of its wifi hardware white list!)
<lfam>Sadly there are no current laptops or even current wifi implementations supported by linux-libre
<pepe6060>what a pity :-(
<apteryx>Otherwise on a desktop I use a 5 GHz AR928X-based pci-express adapter that works well
<vagrantc>i thought the purism laptops would
<lfam>Nor have I found any activity to solve that
<lfam>vagrantc: I'm sure the purism folks would like to use a wifi chip with free drivers but nothing exists since ath9k
<lfam>So, you're limited to 802.11n which is quite useful but, at this point, slow
<apteryx>before my wireless N bottlenecks our poor average internet access plans here, it'll take a few more years.
<lfam>The other issue with be LTE modems, as they are probably going to replace wifi for most use cases
<zzappie>I'm using tp-link archer t2u nano wi-fi usb dongle -- its super tiny and one of those hardwares you can grab in electronic stores available worldwide I think, it works with rtl8812au-aircrack-ng-linux-module
<apteryx>zzappie: nice!
<lfam>Wow, I didn't realize there was any 802.11ac implementations with free drivers
<efraim>mbakke: I had to go and look up the commit. That was forever ago
<zzappie>if you look for aircrack-ng headers it actually supports a bubch of devices
<mbakke>efraim: yeah it's been way too long :/ I've started work on bringing it to a mergable state, hopefully we can get it rolling in a few weeks
<lfam>vagrantc: Do you have any idea if `guix system init` using grub-efi on top of Tianocore / EFI could work on the macchiatobin?
<lfam>Like, is it a realistic option?
<roptat>tissevert, j'ai fait ma relecture :)
<roptat>Si quelqu'un d'autre (ou toi) veut relire :
<roptat>j'enverai dans quelques heures si personne ne proteste
<mbakke>lfam: it should work as long as the kernel is compatible
<lfam>Great mbakke. I'm already using linux-libre with the Debian install
<lfam>I'm going to install it to a different disk for initial tests
<lfam>I'm pretty happy with that computer. It compiles the kernel faster than my thinkpad x260 with an i5
<mbakke>lfam: wow :) I think you can also build and boot a USB EFI installer image for aarch64
<lfam>That's what I had in mind for the "initial test"
<lfam>Or, not an installer image, but to install to USB
<lfam>But maybe your idea is better
<lfam>Is it simply a matter of `guix system image -t iso9660 gnu/system/install.scm` from the macchiatobin?
<lfam>Or '-t efi-raw'?
<mbakke>lfam: that should work, yes. At least if EFI is worth its salt.
<lfam>It worked great for Debian so I'll try it
<lfam>Just to clarify, do you suggest iso9660? Or efi-raw? Or "dunno"? :)
<mbakke>lfam: iso9660 should include an EFI bootloader that is recognized by compliant firmwares :)
<mbakke>dunno what efi-raw is, hm
<lfam>I've never "built a PC" before so I'm learning every little thing as I go along
<mbakke>cool, enjoy! :)
*mbakke bbl
<lfam>C ya
<lfam>I wonder why this page's "options" text did not get updated:
<lfam>The first item should read "HTML, with a separate page per node"
<lfam>Oh, I see this wasn't included in the 1.3.0 tag
<lfam>Hm :(
<lfam>apteryx: Could we cherry-pick commit 46852000c to the version-1.3.0 branch, so that the options on that page are more clearly distinguished?
<lfam>AFAICT this stuff is not translated so it shouldn't cause any more work for the translators
<roptat>wow, I actually needed to use --with-latest today :D
<roptat>although it failed :/
<roptat>the build system switch from a Makefile to dune
<apteryx>lfam: git grep indeed suggests it isn't translated! LGTM
<lfam>Okay, incoming!
<apteryx>ah fun, some target was getting by Make in a Guix container; it seems the TZ is different from the host :-)
<apteryx>host is using EDT but container is on UTC; any clue how to leak that into the container?
<roptat>apteryx, what isn't translated?
<apteryx>some html text on
<apteryx>ah, I probably need to expose /etc/timezone
<apteryx>hmm, /etc/timezone is not enough in itself.
<lfam>I pushed, apteryx. Do we know if this will trigger a rebuild of that page or does it require manual intervention?
<Rovanion>Congratulations on the release!
<apteryx>lfam: it's built hourly
<apteryx>lfam: it's defined by a static-web-site-service-type that tracks the version-1.3.0 branch in berlin.scm
<apteryx>Rovanion: :-)
<apteryx>actually, even if the timezone is not the same in the container, Make shouldn't care; the mtime still is the same. Mmh.
<vagrantc>lfam: yeah, the mustang uses tianocore for EFI, and that works fine with grub-efi
<apteryx>ah, I'm using a shell recipe hack in my makefile making use of the -nt test; that must be it.
<lfam>The Guix package failed to build on i686-linux:
<lfam>The test suite timed out
<civodul>lfam: this derivation is built on berlin though, so perhaps it was successfully retried in the meantime
<lfam>Oh, alright
<vagrantc>yay, git describe on guix master actually compares against the most recent release!
<vagrantc>for a long time it was really stuck on comparing against 1.0.x or something
<nckx>Some bootstrap-$DATE branch even.
<vagrantc>nckx: oh yeah ... i worked around that with --match=v'*' ... but now it "just works"
<jonsger>apteryx: ah thanks, but that is +5 from the tagged commit...
<vagrantc>jonsger: you might have pulled an earlier commit that was deleted
<vagrantc>delete your local tag and fetch the new one ... :/
*vagrantc did the same thing
<jonsger>vagrantc: I look at the cgit interface
<vagrantc>maybe it also cached the old tag?
<vagrantc>as i recall the tag i first pulled was also ~5 commits behind
<vagrantc>it also had some cruft in the tag annotation
<apteryx>jonsger: looking here, it seems alright?
<vagrantc>yeah, i can confirm it matches what i have on my local git
<jonsger>ah, so I'm wrong when I look at master. So the image was built from the version-1.3.0 branch
<apteryx>lfam: looks fixed!
<vagrantc>i recall there were some post-release plans to discuss different branch workflows ...
<civodul>but that comes after the post-release break :-)
*jonsger starts his post-release crunch time for downstream stuff :)
<roptat>there's the python improvements
<roptat>we said we'd use a separate branch and evaluate in parallel with our work on core-updates
<roptat>so we can merge before core-updates
<lfam>Yes, after the post-release break
<lfam>Although, I could put together a new "ungrafting" branch tonight. There's probably no reason to delay building that
<lfam>It might not really work... some of the grafts were too ambitious IMO
<lfam>We'll find out
<tissevert>roptat: looks good to me
<tissevert>I fixed another two typos but I don't see anything else
<jackhill>I was so spoiled last time with our release song that I'm missing one now :)
<tissevert>jackhill: there actually was one ?
<tissevert>and there's none this time ?
<tissevert>how come ?
<jackhill>tissevert: yep!
<vagrantc>lfam: oh, is 5.12 likely to get an update today too?
<jackhill>I assume it's just a lot of effort to make one and no one was moved to do so
<lfam>vagrantc: Probably. It depends on if linux-libre releases today or not
<tissevert>sounds fun though : /
<vagrantc>lfam: i haven't gotten around to testing the pinebook-pro patch on that properly, but i'm fairly sure it needs the same patch applied to 5.10 and 5.11
<lfam>Okay. Do you need me to do anything?
<vagrantc>lfam: well, would love to get the patch in with the next 5.12.x update but might not have a chance to send a proper patch
<vagrantc>lfam: it's just adding a single additional patch to linux-libre-5.12-source, just like done for linux-libre-5.11-source
<lfam>Should I try adding it to linux-libre-5.12-pristine-source and decide based on whether or not it applies?
<jackhill>trying to build core-updates: *** error: gettext infrastructure mismatch: using a from gettext version 0.18 but the autoconf macros are from gettext version 0.19. I remember reading advice about this somewhere, but I can't find it now. Any ideas?
<vagrantc>i tested that it still applies, but haven't had a chance to test that it actually fixes the issue :)
<lfam>vagrantc: Okay. Can you send an email to guix-devel asking for advice about making this conditional based on system type? It would be great to avoid using it on non-aarch64 systems
<vagrantc>it's also a no-op for other systems, in that it is a one-line change to the pinebook-pro devicetree
<lfam>Right, but it affects the source derivation
<vagrantc>but it would be nice to figure out how to do that
<lfam>It's just suboptimal
<vagrantc>so as to be able to commit more freely :)
*lfam afk
<vagrantc>gah, i seem to have botched the whitespace for the patch applied to 5.10
<raingloom>oh for... is gvfs broken for anyone else? it broke again for me and i have no clue why. maybe it's because i reconfigured but haven't rebooted yet?
<raingloom>but it wouldn't be the first time it was completely broken. specifically i can't see anything in /run/user/$UID/gvfs but i can browse things through Nautilus.
<jackhill>ah git clean to the rescue for me
<raingloom>okay, a reboot fixed gvfs. i love it when things silently break. :))))
<raingloom>i wonder if the gvfs folks ever fixed the bug where symlinks would not work correctly that caused me to almost delete the entire file system on my old desktop install. :))))
<raingloom>hmm, nope, no they have not.
<apteryx>guix pull --commit doesn't understand any git refspec such as tags, right?
<apteryx>I wanted to do 'guix pull --commit=v1.3.0' but that doesn't seem to fly
<vagrantc>huh, pretty sure i;ve done that before
*vagrantc now doubts
<apteryx>it says: guix pull: error: Git error: unable to parse OID - contains invalid characters
<apteryx>I guess a non-exact workaround is --branch=version-1.3.0
<tissevert>the tune for 1.2.0 was really cool
<tissevert>really too bad that there's none around this time
<tissevert>well, g'night everyone
<vagrantc>could try to make one after the fact :)
<raghavgururajan>> apteryx‎: I wanted to do 'guix pull --commit=v1.3.0' but that doesn't seem to fly
<raghavgururajan>Also, the tag is on the commit a0178d34f582b50e9bdbb0403943129ae5b560ff. Shouldn't it be on 771b866c55e5f992df60f6c32f5fdd78b64e17f6 or b7cbca221f74e9e9ef43c228dca9fa9930babec5?
***rekado_ is now known as rekado
<NieDzejkob>I cannot ssh into bayfront; verbose logs are suggesting that the filesystem is full
<lfam>civodul ^
<lfam>I'm going off-topic, but I wonder if there is a way to prevent this condition from breaking remote login
<lfam>Maybe it's /var/run/utmpx that requires a write to succeed
<civodul>could be
<lfam>I pinged you because I think you are local
<civodul>NieDzejkob: i can't log in either; it just gets stuck
<civodul>yeah, FSVO local :-)
<civodul>i can hard-reboot it without leaving my chair though, if need be
<civodul>oh, i successfully logged in
<civodul>load is 144, ouch
<NieDzejkob>oh, is it literally under your desk, or do you have a way to hard-reboot it remotely?
<lfam>144 seems high for that machine
<civodul>someone's building a huge C++ thing it seems