<rekado>Wechat is one of the worst apps out there, and unfortunately one of the most influential as well.
<jlicht>bad jokes aside, it frightens me how people can be faced with how their choices contribute to systems such as these, and still shrug it off as 'not my problem' :/
<helaoban>I lived in China for a long lime, an interesting observation was that many kids these days completely bypass traditional means of online communication and move straight to wechat. They will have never used email, and SMS has been relegated to a kind of spam-zone that makes it unusable. Contacts are rarely saved in contact books anymore since there's almost never a reason to drop to the OS to do
<helaoban>anything, e.g. very few calls are made directly through the phone over the cell networks, and are made mostly through Wechat's call feature.
<helaoban>ryanprior: so after skimming the docs for time-machine and inferiors, it looks like the right mechanism to use packages from multiple different guix revisions is inferiors, is that right? Say for example that I wanted to use python 3.7.4 and elixir 1.10.3, both of which are no longer in the current revision.
<ryanprior>Absolutely, that is the intended use of inferiors and that is the easiest way to accomplish what you want.
<ryanprior>What you said about communications in China resonates too, I've never lived there but know a number of Chinese students in the US who only communicate with friends and family in China through WeChat.
<ryanprior>Calling it a chat app really undersells it from what I'm told, it's an app store with tons of games, it's one of the most common ways to pay for things, even food and clothes etc
<ryanprior>It's like the apotheosis of proprietary software surveillance capitalism
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<helaoban>ryanprior: cool, I'll play around and see if I can get an environment up.
<helaoban>Yeah, payment is the other big use. The unfortunate reality is that it's very good at what it does. Ethics aside, I admire some of the purely techincal decisions they've made, for example using QR codes and cameras for payments instead of RFID.
<helaoban>QR codes were already super popular 10 years ago in China as a marketing tool (think giant QR codes on the sides of buildings) and they just hijacked that to bootstrap a payment system.
<helaoban>So as long as you have a phone capable of displaying a QR code, a cashier could scan it at a POS machine and the transaction is effected immediately. And if you were buying from a food stand that couldn't afford a POS terminal, then you would just scan the merchant's QR code which he has pasted everywhere on his cart and you're good to go.
<helaoban>I watched China go from cash to cashless in a span of ~4months, it was crazy.
<nckx>Does anyone know/remember why hplip is built with --disable-network-build? scan/sane/hpaio.c now hard-depends on it, which might be a mistake, but I wonder if there's anything inherently problematic about just enabling it.
<Brendan[m]2>and include in the message a short message saying its a duplicate
<ryanprior>Okay that's taken care of, thank you Brendan!
<luhux>Hello everyone, how does Guix boot using PXE? My machine has a problem with USB, it will report an error during the copy to /mnt stage and then init will be killed. I am looking for another installation method
<efraim>xelxebar: good news is the pine64 came back up, bad news is there seem to be some bugs with creating the install image
<g_bor[m]1>With all these nice additions on netbooting, I was wondering how lightweight is to add the ssh public keys to different kind of system targets
<efraim>xelxebar: there's also bug#43591 which means there might be problems using aarch64 to build an armhf image anyway
<g_bor[m]1>I have a provisioning system in mind where a lightweight guix system image is generated, basically differing only in the provisioner user ssh public key for the nodes, that pxe boot it, and then the final config is injected with guix deploy. Anyone doing something like that?
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<Brendan[m]2>When I run guix environment --ad-hoc guile3.0-chickadee, it does not prepend to GUILE_LOAD_PATH or GUILE_LOAD_COMPILED_PATH at all, so the module cannot be found
<nckx>raghavgururajan: I just don't see the spam in that message? I can assure you that it wasn't. Implying that people are spammers merely because they're... idiosyncratic triggers me beyond reason, it is true. In any case: thank you for your service! o7
<OriansJ>raghavgururajan: so never trust a name because I could be anyone from anywhere trying to do anything...
<mfg>OriansJ: i mean objects returned by computed-file; i'm trying to understand how i.e. $GUIX_PROFILE/etc/profile gets generated
<OriansJ>mfg: by a forest of symlinks; essentially /gnu/store is just a big bag of binaries. The profiles are just collections of symlinks to the binaries needed and the current profile just points to one of the collections of symlinks
<cbaines>ryanprior, I believe there's some special stuff somewhere in the toolchain Guix uses to have dynamic linking target specific store items
<cbaines>I'm guessing this is a Go binary, so that might behave differently... I'm unsure
<bavier[m]1>ryanprior: it's a dynamic library, so `ldd` will "link" to whichever library it can find. Here that probably means there's no rpath embedded for libc and libpthread when the library is built
<cbaines>mfg, a profile is an item in the store, like /gnu/store/bs85y2q3zdzmxmx7bwykjr6zv12znm2x-profile There will be a derivation to create it, and something describing that derivation in Guix (it could be a computed file, I haven't checked)
<cbaines>mfg, specifically about computed-file, that's a high level thing from which a derivation can be generated
<cbaines>mfg, so "how do computed-files actually get written to disk?"
<cbaines>I would say, a derivation is generated from the computed-file, that derivation has a build script, and when that's run, it does the writing of any files
<mfg>cbaines: that makes sense, thank you :) Now i now what i have to read :D
<ryanprior>cbaines: it is indeed a go binary. bavier should I patch the binary somehow so that it has an rpath embedded, to make the package more correct? Or is it working as intended?
<jlicht>I don't think I'll have a lot of time in the upcoming week for a more in-depth review. My apologies ryanprior, you'll have to poke 'n prod someone else for that if you want it to happen sooner rather than later
<leoprikler>luis-felipe: the manual goes into more depth, but it's basically downloading the source code, finding the location, editing, testing, sending a patch to email@example.com
<mfg>are there some tunable options to make guix time-machine faster? my guess is the only way to make it faster would be to throw more cpu ressources at it, because most of the time it's busy compiling things?
<zimoun>nckx: about “shell completion installation” files in guix-install.sh and bother to the user, it appears to me just the polite way to ask and not install stuff behind (even about profiles). So IMHO, 2 options: update the manual to clearly state what guix-install.sh is doing (for example in the Warning note) or add only one question directly in guix-install.sh for profiles and shell completion. WDYT?
<sneek>zimoun, rekado_ says: issues.guix.gnu.org has *access* to all GNU Debbugs bugs. It doesn’t include them in the search, nor does it index them. But it can show them all. I think that’s a feature, not a bug.
<sneek>zimoun, rekado_ says: issues.guix.gnu.org could refuse to show them, but I think that would be a needless limitation.
<lafrenierejm>I'm getting the following error on all `guix import` invocations:
<lafrenierejm>In procedure struct-vtable: Wrong type argument in position 1 (expecting struct): #f
<ryanprior>Inquiz: the Guix project is written in Guile, and it implements many features similar to what are available in other GNU utilities, so that's not necessarily wrong
<ryanprior>But the purpose of Guix is not to replace other GNU utilities with Guile, but rather to provide a nice tool set for describing packages, services, and whole systems using Guile
<mfg>is it possible to boot guix system over pxe, mount the store via nfs and have the rest of the system in a ramdisk? so basically run guix diskless?
<joshuaBPMan>man, it is not really easy to debug why a guix service fails to start. It's also not really easy to discover where the latest configuration file is.
<sneek>Welcome back joshuaBPMan, you have 1 message!
<sneek>joshuaBPMan, nckx says: We don't have SA (is that still widely used?) but we do have Bogofilter. I also have an unfinished rspamd patch somewhere. It basically works but turned out too heavyweight for my usage: redis? Not when a simple Sieve rule matching the Greek alphabet + "funds" catches 90% of my spam...
<joshuaBPMan>sneek: I'm surprized than a simple sieve rule catches most of your spam.
<zimoun`>nckx: to be honnest, I do not have a strong opinion on the topic. Since you are reviewing (providing feedback) and I want to move forward because it is “boring” (damned shell! ;-)), so let’s do how you are proposing; you are surely wiser. :-) We could change later if there is bug report and/or “complaint”. BTW, you are right about ’nscd’ and init system, I
<zimoun`>am updating the patch too. Thank for your feedback.
<plattfot>mfg: I've followed the steps in the manual, i.e. cloned guix, ran guix git authenticate then guix environment guix --pure; ./bootstrap; ./configure --localstatedir=/var; make check
<mfg>plattfot: i guess you are following the manual? so this happens during the 'make check'? if you are on the newest revision, then i would open a bug ticket for it.
<nckx>and the test suite again, does it change anything?
<nckx>Of course ./configure should set CONFIG_SHELL regardless but maybe it's confused.
<plattfot>nckx: I'm running zsh so maybe that's why
<mfg>plattfot: also: is this on guix system or on a foreign distro?
<nckx>plattfot: Also, when you write that your ran ‘guix environment guix --pure; ./bootstrap; ...’ - can we assume those ‘;’ are shorthand for ‘and then I ran’? If you really typed ‘guix environment guix --pure; ./bootstrap‘, that won't work.
<lafrenierejm>efraim: Yeah, I also don't suspect SSL. The only relevant (AFAIK) environment variable I have is SSL_CERT_FILE=/etc/ssl/certs/ca-certificates.crt
<plattfot>nckx, efraim: `make distclean` and then run `guix environment guix -- sh -c './bootstrap && ./configure --localstatedir=/var --sysconfdir=/etc && make'` seems to work. It passed tests/store-roots.scm.