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<PotentialUser-15>Yes. If I had to guess, the issue is with Nouveau when booting.
<PotentialUser-15>Besides the 5.4.31 kernel I had with the original installation, I'm unable to successfully boot whenever I try an upgrade
<lfam>Hm, okay. Let us know how it goes
<PotentialUser-15>Sure thing!
<jonsger>hmpf setting environment vars for a mcron user, guix is sometimes annoying...
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<nckx>pkill9: Whatever you're planning...
<apteryx>rekado_: re the lack of delayed evaluation for snippets; I tried to work around this by making the snippet field of the <origin> record thunked, as was suggested to you by civodul in 2016 :-), but that didn't help (now it hangs in a loop without printing anything).
<apteryx>in the manual we document that the snippet can be a gexp, but it doesn't seem to get any use in the source code and breaks when trying to use it -- it'd be nice to have that fixed.
<apteryx>rekado_: also, why mustn't there be any store reference in the source code? Patching the likes of /bin/sh and /bin/pwd seems a nice thing to have in a snippet, otherwise when exploring a manual build in a guix environment phases must be manually ran, which is inconvenient..
<apteryx>i.e., to me the source retrievable by 'guix build --source' shoud build in a guix environment, ideally.
<pkill9>nckx: nice thanks, what I want is to get all those desktop files to use for a launcher that will launch one of them and using guix's magic, download it and run it for you
<nckx>pkill9: So you want the actual files themselves?
<nckx>(The insanely slow part is the readdir(), that list took an hour to generate, actually tarring up the files in that list should be ‘faster’...)
<pkill9>yea nckx, stored like <package>/<.desktop-file>, or maybe <store-path>/share/applications/<.desktop-file>, preferably the former, but probably a lot simple to do the latter
<pkill9>no parsing on the latter one i assume
<nckx>Yeah, I'll let you do the transformation 🙂
<pkill9>yea that's no problem, thanks for donating your effort
<PotentialUser-15>Hello again! Should I be worried about these warnings?
<PotentialUser-15>`guile: warning: failed to install locale
<PotentialUser-15>guile: warning: failed to install locale
<PotentialUser-15>guile: warning: failed to install locale
<PotentialUser-15>`guile: warning: failed to install locale`
<PotentialUser-15>Oops, I only meant to paste that once
<PotentialUser-15>Here's the second warning:
<PotentialUser-15>`guix system: warning: cannot determine provenance for current system`
<nckx>pkill9: Wow... knowing someone's name truly is power. tar -cT <that list> took less than 2 minutes! 😳
<nckx>Tarball is in same directory.
<nckx>PotentialUser-15: Welcome! Have you run ‘guix pull’ yet?
<nckx>(Just ‘guix pull’, no sudo.)
<nckx>The locale warning is not something to worry about right now. It's harmless and can be made to go away entirely.
<nckx>PotentialUser-15: Do you use Guix (as a package manager only) or Guix System (full OS)?
*nckx AFK, won't respond for a while.
<PotentialUser-15>nckx: Full OS
<PotentialUser-15>Also, yes I have already run `guix pull`
<dftxbs3e>what's up why everyone was banned?
*dftxbs3e looks at online logs
<dftxbs3e>nothing about it in the logs, weird
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<nckx>dftxbs3e: The logs are full of it.
<nckx>PotentialUser-15: After running ‘hash guix’, what does ‘type guix’ say? What's your $PATH? Do you have any home-made configuration files that could interfere with it?
<nckx>Well, let's see what it is before you bother with that last question.
<c4droid>The guix can be use for buildroot? I want to build a system for my rpi and install guix on it
<sneek>Welcome back c4droid, you have 3 messages!
<sneek>c4droid, str1ngs says: you may need to remove the gdm service from %desktop-services. (modify-services (remove (lambda (service)
<sneek>c4droid, str1ngs says: see the slim example on
<sneek>c4droid, NieDzejkob says: the above message probably got cut off due to newlines, see
<luhux>c4droid: Buildroot cannot be used in Guix System, because buildroot is strongly dependent on FHS. Solving this problem will take a lot of time and effort to change buildroot. If possible, it is recommended to use chroot, lxc, docker to build an FHS standard environment to run it .
<PotentialUser-15>nckx: I just finished running `guix system reconfigure` and a third error came up at the end as well...
<PotentialUser-15>`guix system: error: exception caught while executing 'start' on service 'file-system-/sys/kernel/debug':
<PotentialUser-15>Throw to key `match-error' with args `("match" "no matching pattern" ("none" "/sys/kernel/debug" "debugfs" () #f #f #f))'.`
<PotentialUser-15>After running `hash guix`, running the command `type guix` returns `guix is hashed (/home/[username]/.config/guix/current/bin/guix)`
<nckx>Hullo c4droid. No reason you can't do that, but you'll have to get your hands dirty. There's some unfinished work here:
<PotentialUser-15>This is the contents of $PATH :
<nckx>The /debug error is one-time (when upgrading past a certain version) and harmless. You won't see it again after rebooting.
<nckx>Your ‘type guix’ is correct.
<nckx>OK OK 🙂
<PotentialUser-15>^That's the last of it
<nckx>That's all correct.
<nckx>If ‘guix describe’ works I think you're good.
<PotentialUser-15>Yup, `guix describe` works!
<nckx>It's unfortunate that we print so many harmless errors, and that should be fixed some time(TM), but they do seem to be harmless.
<nckx>The most important thing is that you're using the right guix (~/.config/guix/current), which means you'll get the newest packages.
<PotentialUser-15>I guess it should be good. If I can successfully reboot with linux-libre-5.4.60 (like I mentioned I was planning to earlier on today) then everything should be fine.
<nckx>Ah, good luck!
<PotentialUser-15>lfam: Good news! I was able to get Guix to boot after I configured it to update with the newest linux-libre 5.4 kernel (5.4.60). Whatever issue was causing my boot problems before (I suspected it was something related to Nouveau) was related to me trying to update to 5.7 and 5.8 kernel versions.
<lfam>PotentialUser-15: I'm glad to hear it's working now! I wonder what was really going wrong...
<apteryx>sneek later tell butterypancake nckx: re Debbugs usertags, the reason the GNU Debbugs instance accepts 'emacs' and not 'guix' is because "sub is_valid_user in /usr/share/perl5/Debbugs/ is locally patched to not insist that "user" be an email. Instead it requires at least 5 characters, ie "emacs" is ok but "guix" is not. So you would change that to 4 characters to accept "guix".".
<sneek>Will do.
<raghavgururajan>Hello Guix!
<raghavgururajan>I am trying to package this,
<raghavgururajan>I get this error, AttributeError: partially initialized module 'libmat2.archive' has no attribute 'ZipParser'
<bdju>what the heck happened... I just went to look at the channel and saw there was a mass kickban
<bdju>couple days ago I guess
<bdju>I think I got the gist of it now from reading the online logs
<bdju>so, the other day someone said they were considering updating the sway package. I can't quite remember who, but I'm still dealing with the bug from having old sway and new grim, so I would really appreciate it if someone updated the sway package sometime soon
<bdju>both sway and grim and maybe other wayland stuff changed how rotation works recently, so basically when I try to take a screenshot on my portrait monitor it gets the total wrong area from what I selected, and it's like upside down or something. I've had to move windows to my other monitor to screenshot stuff for a few days now.
<bdju>I guess whoever updated grim probably doesn't use a rotated monitor or they would've noticed it too haha
<str1ngs>bdju: this there is a patch to upgrade sway here.
<bdju>oh, nice! glad to know someone started the process then
<str1ngs>maybe add a thumbs up or ++ to the issue. might gain more trackion :)
<bdju>ah okay
<bluekeys>could anyone explain what error: sbcl-ttf-fonts: unbound variable means in config.scm?
<janneke>bluekeys: a package (or variable) by that name does not exist
<janneke>maybe you want sbcl-stumpwm-ttf-fonts (and be sure to ingule (gnu packages wm)
<janneke>(there is no value bound to that name)
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<bluekeys>janneke: Fantastico! That's got it.
<bluekeys>Urgh: Any ideas on this? I'm new to this all still: /etc/config.scm:27:3: In procedure append: Wrong type argument in position 2 (expecting empty list): #<package sbcl-stumpwm-ttf-fonts@0.0.1-2.920f8fc gnu/packages/wm.scm:1740 7f8456b9c6e0>
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<thomassgn>Good morning Guix! I came across self-encrypting drives (SED) and the sedutils are not in guix afaik. Anyone know if guix can use disks with SED? (Apparentlyu they can be used transparently, passwordless)
<raghavgururajan>sneek: later tell nckx: The `./pre-inst-env guix build openjdk@14` stucks at "Starting download of [...]". Could you try it on and copy it to bayfront please? Same repo and commit as last time.
<sneek>Got it.
<kmicu>Hi thomassgn yes, we can use it assuming they are not encrypted.
<rndd>hi everyone! as i understand, in guix we use snippets to patch sources. does is mean i always need to rewrite patches in guix snippets?
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<civodul>Hello Guix!
<sneek>civodul, you have 1 message!
<sneek>civodul, NieDzejkob says: the guile docs are severely lacking a simple example of how one might use traps.
<civodul>uh, very few people here
<euandreh>hi civodul
<janneke>hey civodul
<efraim>we had a spam attack over Friday/Saturday and ChanServ kicked everyone by accident
<civodul>oh, interesting :-)
<civodul>hey, how's everyone?
*civodul relearns how to type :-)
<efraim>guile-2.2.2 FTBFS on mips64el on 0.13.0 even with a max-silent-time of 6 hours
<civodul>bah, what are you doing on mips?
<efraim>Andreas mailed me one of the Longsoon 2F machines and I'm playing with it. Debian dropped support for that specific machine the same time they dropped ppc32
<civodul>oh, fun
<efraim>I still haven't ruled out installing NetBSD on it
<efraim>building debian packages "correctly" turned out to be harder than expected with expired keys
<efraim>and after installing debian fresh as a bootstrap step I'm a bit afraid to blindly update it since I'm not sure what projects upstream still even support it
<civodul>free software is not doing a great job at supporting "old" hardware
<janneke>you can turn that around in many ways ;)
<civodul>i recognize how difficult that is
<janneke>yeah sure, i sympathise
<kmicu>Free software is not about free support in any way.
<efraim>I kept the precompiled headers for guile-2.2.2 and now it's progressing. I updated the HDD to a 512 GB SSD so I don't have to guix gc. As it goes I'll probably use guix pack to create checkpoints if necessary.
*kmicu is happy each time Emacs removes support for PDP-11‑like hardware.
<leoprikler>I do think free software puts more effort into supporting old hardware than non-free software tho.
<leoprikler>Try using the newest iOS on older devices ;)
<kmicu>(Don’t get me wrong I have MIPS NAS here too but maintaining edge cases used by handful folks when manpower is limited is not wise.)
<kmicu>(We can still use old software on that esoteric hardware just not keep it up‑to‑date and bother devs with it. That’s fair.)
<leoprikler>sure, plus free software allows the one willing to to bring back support for their favourite hardware
<kmicu>That’s what I do with my mt7621. I would never ask Guix folks without that hardware to keep supporting it and paying the price of maintenance for me.
<efraim>I think we should make a 'linux-libre-lts' package that just points to the latest lts version we have
<bdju>if anyone has time, the freerdp package is a bit out of date. I was unable to use it and I'm curious if the bug is fixed on a newer version
<PotentialUser-94>I'm trying to get guix working on top of Debian/stretch. I installed from guix-binary-1.1.0.x86_64-linux.tar.xz. When I try to install anything or upgrade with guix pull it will download and build a lot of things before eventually giving up complaining about a hash mismatch for: /gnu/store/0zh5mvhgcx0198k7j6p5pgrc5krgxyqj-icu4c-64_2-src.tgz. As t
<PotentialUser-94>his seems to be on the path for doing anything useful with guix is there a way fix/workaround this problem?
<efraim>PotentialUser-94: try running 'guix download' and then continuing on as before
<efraim>if it is identical to the correct one it'll just work
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<PotentialUser-94>That seems to have done it thanks.
<nckx>Good morningtides Guix.
<sneek>nckx, you have 1 message!
<sneek>nckx, raghavgururajan says: The `./pre-inst-env guix build openjdk@14` stucks at "Starting download of [...]". Could you try it on and copy it to bayfront please? Same repo and commit as last time.
<nckx>PotentialUser-94: You can even ‘guix download file:///home/...’ on files you manage to find in some weird place. As long as the name & hash matches what Guix expects.
<nckx>efraim: Good idea.
<nckx>Does this look familiar: read_from_channel_port: [GSSH ERROR] Error polling channel: #<input: channel (closed) 7f6af611a580>
<civodul>hey nckx, this must be the guile-ssh issue at
<civodul>we have to reconfigure berlin
<civodul>i can do it if you want, lemme know!
<abralek>Hi guix
<efraim>can someone bump the guix package version? should make 'guix environment guix' work again with the change with guile-zlib/guile-lzlib
<apteryx>civodul: hey, welcome back! We missed you :-)
<nckx>civodul: Welcome back & thank you. I'm so happy this is (likely) a known bug! I can reconfigure berlin, or have more gotchas snuck in? (If so they should be documented 😉)
<nckx>Hullo abralek.
<civodul>hey apteryx :-)
<civodul>nckx: it Should Be Safe to reconfigure now :-)
<civodul>efraim: ah yes
<Kimapr>Hello, btrfs broke after first failure and now i cant boot
<Kimapr>It's rediculous, i was convinced that btrfs is more fau
<Kimapr>lt tolerant than ext4
<apteryx>Kimapr: what kind of failure?
*nckx would like to give Kimapr a lucky 🍀, they deserve it...
<Kimapr>I dont know, i think hdd got disconnected
<Kimapr>I have a pretty unstable usb cable combined with weak usb ports and computer
<Kimapr>One wrong touch and hdd (usb) gets disconnected
<Kimapr>Now even btrfs check --repair doesnt fix it
<apteryx>you may have damaged it more by using that command
<apteryx>the manpage says: Warning: Do not use --repair unless you are advised to do so by a developer or an experienced user, and then only after having accepted that no fsck successfully repair all types of filesystem corruption. Eg. some other software or hardware bugs can fatally damage a volume.
<Kimapr>Maybe, but i still have the very same errors
<apteryx>Perhaps the Btrfs people in #btrfs would be curious to see them, and you might get a recommendation or two! They are usually responsive and helpful.
<Kimapr>So my root subvolume (mounted at /) got emptyfied
<Kimapr>Dats weird
<apteryx>if you mount it somewhere from the Guix installer image, it is empty?
<Kimapr>Didnt try that, i ls'ed it from grub
<apteryx>OK! that should work too.
<apteryx>GRUB sees the root of the Btrfs file system
<nckx>GRUB uses its own drivers which may react (very) differently to damage, so Linux might show more, but it's not a good sign.
<nckx>civodul: on berlin. I guess it's related to the ‘childhurd’ stuff?
<civodul>nckx: looks like it, but it's weird
*civodul tries
<nckx>I used the most recent command C-r'd from root's shell: root@berlin ~/maintenance/hydra# /root/.config/guix/current/bin/guix system -L modules reconfigure berlin.scm -v2 --no-offload
<mothacehe>Hey nckx, I think this is caused by the switch to "guile-zlib", that fails to cross-compile for the hurd.
<mothacehe>Trying to fix it.
<nckx>Thank you!
<civodul>hey mothacehe!
<civodul>mothacehe: this works for me:
<civodul>(the 'if' is to avoid rebuilds for native builds)
<mothacehe>hey civodul, that's what I was about to try :)
<civodul>good :-) i'll let you push it if that's fine with you?
<civodul>also for guile-lzlib
<bandali>for fellow emacsites who may be interested: :-)
<mothacehe>nckx: civodul: done!
*nckx pulls the great finger in the cloud.
<civodul>bandali: neat! would be nice to share the joy of Guile/Guix with fellow Emacsfolks ;-)
<civodul>mothacehe: was it on purpose at acinlude.m4 in guile-zlib is an old copy of guile.m4 (no pkg-config)?
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<mothacehe>civodul: can't find any acinclude.m4 in guile-zlib. You mean aclocal.m4?
<civodul>hmm no
<civodul>mothacehe: sorry i was looking at the wrong guile-zlib :-)
<civodul>i had a copy of davexunit's on my disk
<mothacehe>I see, still need to merge those two, as you suggested!
<civodul>yup, no hurry though!
<nckx>Beh, now I get:
<nckx>Let's Retry.
<nckx>Reproducibility achieved ☹
*nckx ain't got time fo' this. Later.
<civodul>Guix & co. in the news:
<hendursaga>It appears guix environment guix doesn't include guile-zlib or guile-lzlib? I had to add it via --ad-hoc
<mothacehe>hendursaga: you're right, working on a fix!
<hendursaga>mothacehe: OK yeah I see that now, cool
<hendursaga>civodul: That's cool! I just subscribed to ReScience C journal! :)
<hendursaga>Now to try and package a Rust app. Has anyone even attempted packaging Veloren? That project is HUGE. (No I'm not attempting that one!)
<NieDzejkob>hendursaga: you might be interested in the merge-pending recursive importer for rust in #38408
<hendursaga>NieDzejkob: Recursive you say? Yeah that would be awesome! I'll need to check it out.
<pkill9>woo! (at guix mention in the article)
<hendursaga>Does any of the importers take into account when there are multiple versions of a package? I have to manually add the version numbers myself.
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<NieDzejkob>the bug# in question adds semver awareness for the Rust importer, too
<thomassgn>kmicu: awesome, thanks for sharing :)
<NieDzejkob>is it normal that derivations on CI are in progress for hours?
<nckx>Assume they are failed or frozen.
<nckx>Same goes for evaluations:
<NieDzejkob>uh, meant evaluations -_-"
<NieDzejkob>that status looks pretty bad tbh
<nckx>.cuirass-real is spinning at 100% CPU again, same strace as last time.
<nckx>I won't restart it this time in the hope to attract debugging gnomes.
<NieDzejkob>maybe we should let it run under and see if it happens again?
*NieDzejkob fetches the strace
*nckx clicks the link
<nckx>SIGXCPU is weird to me.
<NieDzejkob>SIGPWR too...
<NieDzejkob>is there a way to capture a guile backtrace?
<NieDzejkob>also, does cuirass use any fancy multithreading stuff?
<raghavgururajan>nckx: Any update with openjdk@14?
<nckx>raghavgururajan: It's progressing very slowly due to an unrelated GSSH offloading bug mentioned above.
<nckx>Mathieu fixed that, but then I hit a test failure in the guix package while reconfiguring.
<nckx>We have fun.
*raghavgururajan has no idea of what that is and leaves things back to nckx
*nckx tries again.
*nckx is somewhat deliberately ignorant about Cuirass...
<nckx>I'd look for anything that looks like a remote REPL.
<joshuaBPMan>goodness...Is anyone here a fan of sway and/or drew devault? He's streaming alice and wonderland online...which is technically illegal...
<nckx>Is... is anyone a ‘fan’ of Drew DeVault? I tolerate him for long stretches of time, which seems sufficient.
<nckx>(Background:, although it doesn't mention Guix anywhere.)
<fnstudio>hi, sorry, i was removing a package with `guix remove <package>` when i notice that the command starts downloading a bunch of packages
<fnstudio>i wasn't expecting any download
<fnstudio>may that be because the sources of those packages are needed for the "removal operation"?
<guix-vits>fnstudio: Any "transaction" performed by guix is operating on User's profile.
<fnstudio>guix-vits: right
<nckx>I doubt the sources of those packages were being downloaded (though I could always be proved wrong), but Guix needs a lot of software to create the resulting profile: man-db, texinfo, xdg-stuff (probably), …
<guix-vits>fnstudio: You'd deleted a package, but the other packages may get some updates.
<nckx>It's possible newer versions were pulled in the mean time.
<fnstudio>that makes sense
<guix-vits>fnstudio: included the security ones ("grafts").
<str1ngs>fnstudio: that threw me off when first using GUIX as well. those packages are probably used to generate the profiles.
<str1ngs>as othere explained but I missed. don't mind my redundancy :)
<fnstudio>cool, i'm sure it is as you say; as an "exercise" i'm now first pulling/upgrading and then i'm going to remove that package as a separate step, to see if that makes any difference
<nckx>I say redundant shit all the time.
<fnstudio>thanks nckx str1ngs guix-vits !
<abralek>How do you guys build network configuration which requires bonding?
*str1ngs was going to make a joke about crazy glue. changes his mind :)
<abralek>I have found this bug#29093 but seems like libteam has not been integrated yet =(
<joshuaBPMan>nckx: yeah it was a totally off topic thing.
<nckx>Fine by me! I don't much care about off-topic chatter (within reason) but others do.
<nckx>Just not sure what kind of reaction you wanted.
<fnstudio>i suppose the recommendation is to run `guix --package upgrade` as often as possible?
<fnstudio>every time i do that, though, that seems to dl a fresh copy of texlive... which is about 2.6G and takes its toll on my connection
<fnstudio>i think i might be missing something here in terms of the ideal "stay-uptodate" workflow
<fnstudio>as i doubt the recommendation is to be potentially downloading 2.6G... every day? or maybe i've just been in this "unlucky" streak of latex updates :D
<str1ngs>fnstudio: are you running guix gc or something?
<fnstudio>str1ngs: i am, yes
<fnstudio>str1ngs: is it because of that?
*fnstudio prepares to facepalm
<str1ngs>maybe you are running that to often or maybe you want something more like. guix gc -d 2m . 2m being delete things older then two months.
<fnstudio>str1ngs: ah! cool, i see, that's a good one, let me take note
<str1ngs>fnstudio: if something does not have a root aka is being used in a profile. running guix gc withough arguements will delete it.
<str1ngs>fnstudio: which would explains why it is being downloaded again probably after a guix gc has been run.
<fnstudio>str1ngs: hm not sure i'm following
<str1ngs>fnstudio: say textlive is used for something but is not actually in a profile somewhere. using guix gc potentially could delete it.
<fnstudio>str1ngs: i think texlive is listed in my profile... ah maybe it's a dependency of something that is listed in my profile?
<str1ngs>is not listed*
<fnstudio>str1ngs: ah... i think i see
<fnstudio>very good tip, thanks str1ngs
<str1ngs>maybe textlive is being used generate something in your profile. I'm kinda guessing here someone as might now if that's a possibility or not.
<str1ngs>else might know*
<fnstudio>sounds very plausible
<str1ngs>fnstudio: depending how much you pull I find guix gc -d 1m or 2m is pretty good for keeping recent things only.
<str1ngs>and guix is not fat, it's just big boned :)
<nckx>I've always run all my systems with --gc-keep-outputs=yes & --gc-keep-derivations=yes. I wonder how much that would help.
<guix-vits>fnstudio: Sometimes the freshest `guix pull` have no substitutes for some packages. So updating means 'build locally, from source'. There is --do-not-update=REGEX option.
<lfam>It's --do-not-upgrade
<msavoritias[m]1><nckx "I've always run all my systems w"> Where do you add these commands? In update?
<nckx>No, to the daemon command line. On Guix System that means the (service guix-service-type (guix-configuration (extra-options ...))) list.
<msavoritias[m]1>Thank you
<guix-vits>lfam: Thanks.
<fnstudio>guix-vits lfam: oh nice, thanks
<fnstudio>`guix gc --help` says `-d` is for deleting "profile generations matching PATTERN"; could it be worth to add mention of "duration"? is `-d` for duration in the first place?
<fnstudio>ah no, it must be for `--delete-generations`... of course...
<fnstudio>then i suppose it must be clear (to someone who's familiar with other commands) that the pattern matching mechanism includes things such as `2m`
<lfam>Check the manual section:
*guix-vits <holywar>2m ---> 2 minutes :D</holywar>
*str1ngs smites guix-vits with the vengeful wrath of Emacs!
<fnstudio>guix-vits str1ngs: ah interesting, the html page does mention `duration` instead of `PATTERN`
<fnstudio>might it be worth to have that reflected in `guix gc --help`?
<str1ngs>fnstudio: possible, also the "html" is the manual so info guix would have this information.
<fnstudio>str1ngs: right, thanks
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<fnstudio>guix-vits lfam: i was looking for `--do-not-upgrade` i suppose that's a `guix package` option? you mentioned that for when the freshest `guix pull` have no substitutes for some packages, but how do i know? can this be done automatically, or does it have to be a manual check?
<nckx>guix-vits: It's not a holy war when you're objectively right!™
<fnstudio>in other words, do i need to manually check what's "missing" in the most recent pull?
<nckx>fnstudio: It has te be checked manually using ‘guix weather’ (which also takes a manifest option, not sure about profiles).
<fnstudio>nckx: oh, i see
<fnstudio>ok, i think i'm getting there... though a bit slowly
<fnstudio>so what do people normally do? have the pull/upgrade done as part of a (eg nightly) cron?
<nckx>The current situation is considered ideal or finished. There's plenty of room for improvement.
<fnstudio>i suppose there's all possible varieties of practices, but is there any established best practice?
<str1ngs>when you have righteousness on your side how can you be wrong!
<nckx>fnstudio: There's an unattended upgrade service but it's so new I wouldn't trust it yet:
<fnstudio>nckx: uh... nifty, let me see
<nckx>fnstudio: I just run both manually, and simply compile whatever's missing.
<fnstudio>nckx: and `guix gc` as well, every now and then, i suppose?
<fnstudio>got it, very helpful, i feel i'm moving ahead slowly but steadily
<nckx>Eh, hardly ever actually. Haven't run it yet this year.
<nckx>raghavgururajan: Your java is ready.
<kmicu>3 billion devices run Java
*apteryx laughs
*str1ngs cries
*kmicu *giggles* and hopes Oracle buying TikTok will end Oracle JDK.
<Kimapr[m]>wait, wasnt this channel '-r'?
<pkill9>oracle is buying tiktok, lol
<str1ngs>I can't help feel like there is some irony in that.
<pkill9>why is there irony in that?
<str1ngs>it's tiktok *and* oracle.
<nckx>Kimapr[m]: Sometimes.
<nckx>Kimapr[m]: There's a complex algorithm with bird entrails & moon phases & number of porn links posted that day. -r makes it impossible for PotentialUsers to get help so is best avoided.
*kmicu checkes wheter nixos still links to porn.
<Kimapr>I didn't see any porn links here. Am i _that_ unlucky?
<nckx>kmicu: Nobody runs java. At most they jog it, but most manage a hearty stroll.
<nckx>This is the Internet! No porn allowed.
<str1ngs>the internet was built on the back of porn. You can't deny history!
<nckx>Date checks out.
<str1ngs>maybe I should have said the commercial internet :P
<bandali>sneek, later tell civodul, thank you ludo, and indeed! if you and/or others have a guix/guile-themed talk that's emacs-related, please feel free to submit a proposal for it :-)
<sneek>Will do.
<nckx>kmicu obviously ‘still checking, go away’.
<raghavgururajan>> ‎str1ngs‎: it's tiktok *and* oracle.
<raghavgururajan>I didn't get it. What's the reference?
<raghavgururajan>nckx: Thanks!
<str1ngs>raghavgururajan: maybe it's just me, but tiktok is weird and so is oracle.
<kmicu>You must be young and on TikTok to understand.
*kmicu went dancing Guix kawaii on TikTok.
<str1ngs>ya know the whole lets patent a programming API thing.
*raghavgururajan was confusing TikTok with TikTac, and searches web about the former
<nckx>whats a tiktok
<str1ngs>nckx: you will regret asking that! :P
<str1ngs>sometimes ignorance bliss :)
<nckx>‘Chinese Vines.’
<nckx>OK cool.
<nckx>Videos that users do not want to post yet can be stored in their "drafts".
<nckx>Who let the patent lawyers edit Wikipedia.
<nckx>kmicu: Link? Let's put it on the blog to attract youths.
<nckx>raghavgururajan: Don't forget to create GC roots (last time I'll say that, promise).
<raghavgururajan>nckx: Done!
<raghavgururajan>nckx: Seems like ungoogled-chromium is already built on Bayfront. But could not download substitute.
<nckx>Which .drv?
<raghavgururajan>Just a sec.
<raghavgururajan>Both my local guix and guix on bayfront is at dad963a
<guix-vits>raghavgururajan: There is a keyboard-driven version of chromium: qutebrowser.
*guix-vits uses nomad
<raghavgururajan>successfully built /gnu/store/p6z8bsjdvh0grrlhg59zv8mm4a6fm121-ungoogled-chromium-84.0.4147.125-0.57244cd.drv
<raghavgururajan>That is on bayfront
<raghavgururajan>The following derivation will be built:
<raghavgururajan> /gnu/store/44p7sda4grzx4ib4x2zxw076hxl1k1ld-ungoogled-chromium-84.0.4147.125-0.57244cd.drv
<raghavgururajan>That is on my device
<raghavgururajan>Shoot! how come the hash is different.
<nckx>Yeah, bayfront has /gnu/store/3l4a0bla0zg6mc5lwawsm52nbyj23xkp-ungoogled-chromium-84.0.4147.125-0.57244cd, on ec2f375c90c58fba9a8708d71b2efe9aa985c12e.
*nckx can't tell you.
<raghavgururajan>Both of my guix are on same commit dad963a
<raghavgururajan>guix-vits: Nice!
<nckx>Dodgiest link of the day: confirmed.
<nckx>‘Notification is not defined’. The end.
<nckx>Le shame.
*kmicu thought framasoft instances are libre.js safe.
<str1ngs>that reminds me I need to add more javascript options to nomad. currently you can just enable or disable JS
<nckx>(kmicu: Is this worth putting effort into or just a joke?)
*kmicu only mines a little bit of guixcoin in js, it’s capped on 50% CPU.
<nckx>kmicu: So did I. What's even odder is that I don't use LibreJS. Guix's IceCat, but none of the default extensions.
<nckx>Eeach GuixCoin™ is just a highly-compressed meme jpeg signed with Ludo's key.
<nckx>If you collect 1,000,000 you get a free sticker at FOSDEM.
*nckx gives up debugging others' JS.
<kmicu>I can do that blob: cuz I’m a h4ck3r.
<nckx>raghavgururajan: Your bayfront hash is correct. When I check out that commit I get /gnu/store/zd3wbdxa2g1cs2ha14prm59pjlk0gsbn-ungoogled-chromium-84.0.4147.125-0.57244cd.
<nckx>From /gnu/store/p6z8bsjdvh0grrlhg59zv8mm4a6fm121-ungoogled-chromium-84.0.4147.125-0.57244cd.drv
*raghavgururajan 's head spins
<nckx>kmicu: … 😃
<nckx>Took effort. 10/10.
<kmicu>They change hashes… geez.
<Kimapr>Of course resulting package changes its hash from its source derivation if you meant that
<kmicu>I had in mind Frama’s file sharing kerffulflflflfvevev
*kmicu misses ghost errors from Nix eval.
<nckx>kmicu: ?
<kmicu>Nix had this amazing quality to reprot an error and show trace to nowhere.
<nckx>I don't remember that.
<nckx>Open a feature request.
<kmicu>My only request is for Guix maintainers to take it easy. Have fun.
***caleb_ is now known as KE0VVT
*nckx WORKSFORME, closing.
***caleb_ is now known as KE0VVT
<guix-vits>good night.
<bluekeys>how can I debug 'service xorg server provided more than once'? I can't even see one instance in my config.scm
<bavier>bluekeys: I can't describe the debugging, but I've seen that error before when I've added a slim service without removing the gdm service in the default desktop services
<bluekeys>bavier: thanks so much. That sounds exactly like the cause. I'm trying to use slim with stumpwm.
<apteryx>does anyone know how to test 'guix offload' from the command line?
<bluekeys>bavier: can you link to a config where it's done properly?
<apteryx>haha, I found! echo 1 x86_64-linux /gnu/store/8s63hyw4f2ivf1zxkx65awlx5jackvbz-hello-2.10.drv kvm | ./pre-inst-env guix offload x86_64-linux 18000 18000 1
<apteryx>not trivial
<bavier[m]1>`guix offload test` not enough?
<bavier[m]1>that maybe tests something different
<apteryx>bavier[m]1: that's easier, and would have been sufficient for my use case at hand (parsing of /etc/guix/machines.scm).
<kmicu>Congrats civodul personally, it’s really pleasant to read about Guix in serious places.
<vagrantc>too bad they didn't mention guix in the checklist, though ...
<civodul>heh :-)
<sneek>civodul, you have 1 message!
<sneek>civodul, bandali says: thank you ludo, and indeed! if you and/or others have a guix/guile-themed talk that's emacs-related, please feel free to submit a proposal for it :-)
<civodul>the paragraph is about Guix is very elliptic
<civodul>esp. the connection to Docker/Conda
<civodul>oh well!
<bluekeys>bavier: It seems to be working now, I used modify-service and created %my-desktop-services with the settings I wanted. Didn't need to remove anything in the end. I'll confirm it tomorrow, I'm a way from the server now, so can't see X anyhow. Thanks guix
<NieDzejkob>yeah, grafts don't work well with gc
<lfam>What do you mean?
<lfam>NieDzejkob ^
<apteryx>is it possible to reference by index in texinfo?
<apteryx>the node is not precise enough
<apteryx>ah, I can just add a new node
<civodul>apteryx: you can also use @anchor, though it's a bit clunky
*civodul -> zZz
<fnstudio>lol, this is funny... i needed to get a list of all coreutils' dependencies, so i go to to see how to get there... and... the very example shown is based on coreutils! :)
<apteryx>how often does MUMI refreshes its cache?