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***ChanServ sets mode: +o nckx
***nckx changes topic to 'GNU Guix | get Guix at | videos: | bugs & patches: | paste: | Guix in high-performance computing: | This channel's logged: | 1.1.0 is out!'
***ChanServ sets mode: -o nckx
<pkill9>leoprikler: there is an environment variable you can put guix arguments into to run every time
<pkill9>you could make a wrapper that reads them from ~/.guixrc if you wanted heh
<leoprikler>hmm, I think setting that variable from ~/.bash_profile is the way to go then
<leoprikler>malaclyps: 👆️
<Formbi>leoprikler: it's also possible to just install suckless things like this: guix install st --with-source=st@my-version=./st
<leoprikler>That is an option, but I'm not invested enough in suckless tools to actually invoke this monster of a command line.
<pkill9>why have ./st at the end?
<Formbi>to specify the directory (or tarball) where your source is sitting
<Formbi>I imagine most people have it in a directory because of git
<bluekeys>leoprikler: guix environment --ad-hoc guix gwl -- guix workflow still gets me a 'guix: workflow: command not found'
<leoprikler>oops, guile instead of guix
<bluekeys>still no dice
<pkill9>is there a way to run wayland applications from a guix container?
<pkill9>i can run xwayland applications
<pkill9>i'm probably missing an env var
<pkill9>ah yea, WAYLAND_DISPLAY probably
<pkill9>hmm stil didn't work
<leoprikler>what wayland-specific env-vars do you have?
<leoprikler>env | grep WAYLAND?
<pkill9>i did that, WAYLAND_DISPLAY is the only one that cam eup
<pkill9>just to note, im trying to run an sdl program with SDL_VIDEODRIVER=wayland
<pkill9>i can run it through xwayland, but not with it set to wayland backend.
***catonano_ is now known as catonano
<apteryx>hm, libgdata is failing its test suite for me: Bail out! GLib-Net:ERROR:../glib-networking-2.62.2/tls/base/gtlsconnection-base.c:1330:g_tls_connection_base_handshake_thread_verify_certificate: assertion failed: (priv->handshake_context)
<apteryx>but the ci built it fine.
<mroh>builds here too.
<raingloom>well well well. "sudo: /run/current-system/profile/bin/sudo must be owned by uid 0 and have the setuid bit set"
<raingloom>i'm too slepy to debug this or write a proper report.
<apteryx>mroh: thanks for letting me know
<raingloom>...well. this is worse. "sudo: /run/booted-system/profile/bin/sudo must be owned by uid 0 and have the setuid bit set"
<pkill9>sudo needs to be added to setuid packages
<pkill9>or maybe it is but you also added it to normal packages
<raingloom>the latter might be possible, but i don't recall doing so. i guess i'll have to reboot into a previous config.
<raingloom>(since i can't reconfigure without sudo)
<raingloom>...unless i can get it in an --ad-hoc env
<raingloom>ah, it's still in /run/setuid-programs
***rEnr3n0 is now known as rEnr3n
<apteryx>guix copy now works anew
<apteryx>thanks Artyom
<raghavgururajan_>Hello Guix!
*raghavgururajan_ is here via web-client with temporary nick
<raghavgururajan_>nckx: You around? How do I sudo in Bayfront?
<raghavgururajan_>Anyone else with access to Bayfront or Berlin, how to do sudo in ssh session? I wanna edit ~/.bashrc file and not allowing me to edit.
<apteryx>raghavgururajan_: do you think #24288 could be fixed, perhaps? gnome-maps not working outside of GNOME.
<raghavgururajan_>apteryx, it will be fixed once I finish making changes to the build-system.
<efraim>raghavgururajan_: can you just chmod u+w ~/.bashrc? it looks like you have permissions to do that
<raghavgururajan_>efraim Thanks!
***evhan` is now known as evhan
<leoprikler>sneek later tell raghavgururajan to also have a look at #41058
<sneek>Got it.
***terpri__ is now known as terpri
<alextee[m]>is ungoogled chromium binary never ready?
<alextee[m]>everytime i upgrade i'm rebuilding it
<alextee[m]>maybe i messed up with some dependency
<zalox[m]>It can take a while yeah. If you have a server somewhere you could setup your own substitute server.
<zalox[m]>Is there support for wpa2-enterprise on guix?
<leoprikler>ungoogled-chromium has failed on CI for quite a while, so that's probably why
<alextee[m]>ah i see
<alextee[m]>does a substitute server need to be running guix system?
<zalox[m]>Not really. You only need guix installed as a "guest"
<zalox[m]>meaning you need the guix package.
<alextee[m]>might set one up on debian
<sneek>raghavgururajan, you have 1 message!
<sneek>raghavgururajan, leoprikler says: to also have a look at #41058
<raghavgururajan>Does anyone know how long it takes to build the whole rust toolchain (1.20 to 1.39) on bayfront?
<raghavgururajan>Test Transport!
<ss2>Hi. I'm kinda stuck while trying to update emacs-guix on a foreign system. A guix pull doesn't help, and now I'm doing a guix pull and it works here.
<ss2>But not as regular user.
<ss2>As a regular user, the package tries to build /gnu/store/XXX-guix-1.1.0-15.03deb1e-checkout.drv, but that is an old revision, while it should build with guix-1.1.0-18.218a67d.drv.
<ss2>Do I need to do a clean up, or have I not done something properly?
<iyzsong-w>ss2: after 'guix pull', you can check that 'guix describe' reports the correct commit. And 'which guix' should be '~/.config/current-guix/bin/guix', this is a common mistake..
<Parra>I've tried to fix guix channel branch and commit, but for some reason it seems to fail when building, in a test of a library
<Parra>I used git remote-ls and I got the hash of master branch
<Parra>How I should do it?
<Parra>Here's the source if you want to review it ^
***ChanServ sets mode: +o nckx
***nckx changes topic to 'GNU Guix | get Guix at | videos: | bugs & patches: | paste: | Guix in high-performance computing: | This channel's logged: | 1.1.0 is out!'
***ChanServ sets mode: -o nckx
<nckx>raghavgururajan: You're not a super user on bayfront. No sudo for you, I'm afraid.
<ss2>true, I've got the PATH definitions wrong. But it won't point to current. I'll paste my profile.
<iyzsong-w>ss2: I think you want 'GUIX_PROFILE=$HOME/.config/guix/current; source $GUIX_PROFILE/etc/profile', if the 'profile' script see 'GUIX_PROFILE' environment variable, it'll set PATH to '$HOME/.config/guix/current/bin', otherwise it will be '/gnu/store/....../bin' (the later requires a shell re-login to update).
<PotentialUser-46>is it possible to set USdvorak and RUphonetic with grp:shift_caps_toggle in config.scm for Xorg, i couldnt do it, manual says 'one language with nondefault layout' or 'two languages with default layouts'
<nckx>PotentialUser-46: Is this what you mean (mine)? (keyboard-layout (keyboard-layout "us,us" "dvp,altgr-intl" #:options '("grp:win_space_toggle" ...))
<nckx>You'd replace the 2nd us with ru, and altgr-intl with... whatever 🙂
<ss2>iyzsong-w: when is GUIX_PROFILE exported?
<PotentialUser-46>yea, it doesnt work, does it work for you?
<iyzsong-w>ss2: it doesn't need to be exported, just set it before 'source' the profile script.
<nckx>PotentialUser-46: Yes.
<nckx>To my mild irritation since I never use us intl in practice so it only ever switches by accident.
<PotentialUser-46>where to put that code exactly, on start or under xorg setting
<nckx>That doesn't include (bootloader (bootloader-configuration (keyboard-layout keyboard-layout))) because it broke my boot once and I never uncommented it.
<PotentialUser-46>guix system: error: invalid character `,' in name `,us-builder'
<PotentialUser-46>exact copy of your pastebin
<PotentialUser-46>is this a bug, its freshly installed guix and it says comma is an invalid character in keyboard-layout
<PotentialUser-46>i tried "us(dot)ru" "dvorak(comma)phonetic" and it went without errors, i did reconfigure, so when will it work, after loging in again or restart or will it work after it finishes?
*nckx got disconnected.
<nckx>Here's my paste, pasted into bare-bones.tmpl:
<nckx>It seemed to build fine, but then my system crashed for unrelated reasons.
<nckx>You can test it with ‘guix system build <downloaded file>’. If it builds, the error is elsewhere in your configuration. If not, there *might* be a bug (but I consider that unlikely at this point).
<PotentialUser-46>it was clean first install config, and i only touched so "us" would be "us,ru"... , it never accepted two languages because of invalid comma, ill learn more about guix and report if its a 100% bug
<nckx>PotentialUser-46: And what did you add as variant?
<nckx>"us, ru" "variant,variant"?
<nckx>Damn it, habit: "us,ru" "variant,variant"?
<nckx>No space.
<nckx>PotentialUser-46: Can you share your entire configuration?
<nckx>I really don't think there's a bug in keyboard-layout handling.
<ss2>iyzsong: thank you, that helped. But I'm not sure if the manual is clearly stating this though.
<nckx>ss2: This should all happen automatically if you're using the default paths (~/.config/guix/current) and used the installer script, which creates /etc/profile.d/ to do so.
<ss2>In section 4.2 it says one should `GUIX_PROFILE="$HOME/.guix-profile"; source "$HOME/.guix-profile/etc/profile"'.
<ss2>hm, I did..
<nckx>ss2: Does it look like
<nckx>Your distro's /etc/profile should source that automatically.
<ss2>yes it is, the file is sourced at log in. Guix is sitting on an Arch.
<ss2>*the file is sourced at log in.
<nckx>ss2: That's... weird.
<nckx>PotentialUser-46: Honestly, I can't find any ‘bug’ once I correct ‘.’ back to ‘,’:
<ss2>by the way, the installer installs a systemd service where the environment immediatly tries to set the locale to LC_ALL=en_US.utf8. That usually fails with a warning.
<nckx>It builds just fine.
<nckx>I haven't tried putting dvorak back, so if that fails, you know where to look.
<nckx>ss2: ‘Fails with a warning’? Yeesh.
<ss2>hang on..
<nckx>PotentialUser-46: "us,ru" "dvorak,phonetic" also builds fine 🤷 If you can't get it to work we'll need more info.
*nckx leaves for a few hours, good luck ss2.
<ss2>thanks. :)
<PotentialUser-46>dot even if not invalid makes errors
<PotentialUser-46>nckx that option says invalid character , (comma)
<PotentialUser-46>guix system: error: invalid character `,' in name `,ru-builder'
<PotentialUser-46>went to "info guix" there was ',' and my us default comma is ',' there is a little difference in shapes of comma, but official manual comma is an invalid character too
<raghavgururajan>nckx: Help! Is faster than bayfront? Looking for asking you to build rust toolchain (rust 1.23 to rust 1.39) on your build farm. rust 1.20, rust 1.21 and rust 1.22 took two days to finish building on bayfront. I still have other versions left. REPO: ; BRANCH: wip-desktop ; COMMIT: d4dbd512ff69536ba36e2e840b3f43cae044b20f
<PotentialUser-46>ill exit this chat because i have the cleanest newest guix that sees comma as invalid character in keyboard-layout, i have no more information
<raghavgururajan>UNRELATED: Such a co-incidence. I was listening to a song by Lady GaGa. Then I looked at my phone to check status of my Uber Eats order. It said "Gaga is heading your way". x-D
<raghavgururajan>Some driver name is Gaga. The app usually displays "DriverName heading your way".
<alextee[m]>how many GB of disk space does chromium need? oof
<alextee[m]>it froze my PC coz it ran out of space
<alextee[m]>and now it's building from scratch again \o/
<leoprikler>alextee[m]: all of it
<msavoritias[m]>I think its at least 8 could be 10
<alextee[m]>i will never understand why browsers take so long to build
<msavoritias[m]>Its pretty ridiculous
<alextee[m]>isn't it just a c++ program?
<nckx>8 needs swap.
<hacktivista>guys... im trying to compile within a container
<alextee[m]>does the kernel take this long to build too?
<hacktivista>`guix environment --ad-hoc --container`
<hacktivista>I'm using cmake... but apparently `GNUInstallDirs` is not being recognized
<leoprikler>foolish mortal, a kernel is not nearly as complex as chromium needs to be
<hacktivista>it throws fatal error: uInputPlus/uInput.hpp: No such file or directory
<hacktivista>but actually the file exists on /usr/include and include(GNUInstallDirs) is defined on CMakeLists.txt
<hacktivista>what am I doing wrong?
<nckx>PotentialUser-46 (even if gone): I asked you ‘guix system build’ the paste I posted ( If you don't do that and say exactly which error you get, nobody here can help you. That does not mean there's a bug in Guix.
<hacktivista>here the commands I'm executing
<msavoritias[m]>The official page says more that 16gb of ram is strongly recommended plus 100gb of space
<alextee[m]>lol leoprikler:
<nckx>raghavgururajan: I don't think so but it might be less busy. I'll start a build.
<msavoritias[m]>I heard compiling times of 24 hours and I went for icecat
<alextee[m]>icecat takes too long to build too
<msavoritias[m]>Compared to chromium its lightweight. But yes I agree the whole browser thing is bloated
<msavoritias[m]>The mainstream ones at least
<hacktivista>where could I get some help? maybe the mailing list?
<leoprikler>I'm not sure whether putting things under /usr is what you'd want to do
<leoprikler>Granted, you have a container, so it's not polluting anything else, but it still seems quite suspicious
<hacktivista>leoprikler: I was expecting it to be under a GNUInstallDirs available directoy
<hacktivista>/usr/include is
<hacktivista>where should I put the files then?
<leoprikler>for temporary use something like gentoo's paradigm of installing to /tmp should work (specifically you'd want something like /tmp/<package>-install or similar)
<leoprikler>If you're asking how to package software for Guix in general, then you'd have to write package descriptions ;)
<hacktivista>I just want an isolated environment for quick compilation
<leoprikler>this will take care of putting everything to /gnu/store/<hash>-<package>-<version>
<leoprikler>yeah, /tmp sounds like the right place for that
<hacktivista>since the dependencies are required by this tool but not anything else on my system... I think a package description would be an overkill
<hacktivista>leoprikler: you say that I should use /tmp and include that directory into the CMakeLists.txt file?
<leoprikler>you never know, what if you end up packaging ydotool?
<hacktivista>I can package ydotool, but the problem would be the same
<hacktivista>because problem is its dependencies, not ydotool itself
<leoprikler>I'm not quite certain, but I think you should tell it to install to /tmp/foo via cmake command line and make sure to let the container have access to /tmp/foo
<hacktivista>I think its pretty weird that GNUInstallDirs arent recognized
<hacktivista>is that a bug? or is just how guix werks
<hacktivista>or both, hehe
<leoprikler>There should not be a /usr/lib in Guix and I doubt your container has one. That's probably the bug here.
<leoprikler>GNUInstallDirs should work normally if you give provide a location that stuff can actually be installed to as CMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX
<hacktivista>ok... ill give /tmp exposure
<hacktivista>leoprikler: nope, its the same
<hacktivista>I think the unique way would be to add /tmp (or any other directory where to put the includes) to the include list on CMakeLists
<hacktivista>I know guix does not have the typical file structure than a common gnu system... but for compilation purposes I think it should work
<hacktivista>Though, I'm not sure if I should send a mail regarding it... what do you guys think>
<hacktivista>* I think GNUInstallDirs should work
<leoprikler>I don't think GNUInstallDirs does what you think it does
<leoprikler>installdirs is where things should get installed
<leoprikler>your problem is with the include path
<raghavgururajan>nckx: Thank you! Btw, if possible, after build finishes, could you login into bayfront and pull+cache those built substitutes, by rooting (--root)? It should become available to any user on bayfront right?
<hacktivista>leoprikler: GNUInstallDirs contains includedir path
<leoprikler>to install header files in
<leoprikler>it's not for your include path
<hacktivista>my CMakeLists file contains `include(GNUInstallDirs)
<hacktivista>so... it is used for the include path
<hacktivista>I added /tmp/include, and now its compiling
<raghavgururajan>> alextee[m]‎: i will never understand why browsers take so long to build
<raghavgururajan>I know right. Not sure, it has something to do with web architecture itself. Like stuff to render html and speak http.
<leoprikler>include(GNUInstallDirs) does not do anything about your include path
<leoprikler>it includes the cmake code that sets your install dirs
<hacktivista>leoprikler: you mean that includedir in GNUInstallDirs works only on installation direction but not on inclusion direction?
<leoprikler>includedir is the path to put "include files" (read C/C++ headers) during installation
<leoprikler>it is not included in your include path
<raghavgururajan>alextee[m]: This is what I saw on about web, "There is an industry which is specialized on extending the resource usage to display just some characters on your display."
<raghavgururajan>They recommend gopher.
*raghavgururajan never tried gopher, but its in his to-do list.
<msavoritias[m]>There is also gemini
<msavoritias[m]>Never tried it tgrough
<leoprikler>I'd like to take their words with a grain of salt.
<leoprikler>As you can clearly see, their idea of an "ideal website" is pretty much static text.
<leoprikler>Don't get me wrong, I like static text, but I like dynamically generated catalogues of anime catgirls perhaps a bit more than that.
<pkill9>gopher can generate pages i think
<pkill9>i remember there being a search function on a gopher site when i triedit
<bavier[m]1>more bootstrapping woes: Idris2 0.2.1 will be the last version that can be built with Idris, future versions will require an Idris2 to build.
<raghavgururajan>leoprikler: Yeah, I do not completely agree with their stuff. Some of their stuff are thoughtful.
<msavoritias[m]>Agreed. I like my "bloated" browser to be with more than 1 tab
*raghavgururajan likes the web technology, but thinks the concept of "Web Application" is an abuse of it.
<efraim>Does anyone else have problems with icons in netsurf?
<raghavgururajan>It was designed for *information* exchange. The *text* in Hyper Text Transfer Protocol and Hyper Text Markup Language was over-looked.
<msavoritias[m]><raghavgururajan "likes the web technology, but th"> I would like to add the frameworks to that.
<msavoritias[m]>Websites nowadays are just a big ball of JavaScript. Too heavy for anything
<rndd>hi everyone! this question is a little bit offtopic... but. where i can find emacs aliases file? in theory it should be in ~/.emacs.d/eshell/aliases, but it's not
<raghavgururajan>Yeah, I personally think JS should never been invented or should have deployed for some other purpose.
<leoprikler>rndd: that's where it should be, but it's not created unless needed
<pkill9>a completely different system should have been used for 'web-applications'
<pkill9>i.e. applications that are downloaded and run ad-hoc
<pkill9>like rebolol
<raghavgururajan>net-application perhaps
*raghavgururajan misses those days where one could use nerdy-romantic line "You are the CSS to my HTML". X-D
<leoprikler>I think any programming language would have become a nightmare for the purpose of running in browsers.
<leoprikler>Just look at WebAssembly
<raghavgururajan>I agree.
<msavoritias[m]>Its amazing how many containers and security they put in there to make it secure. Instead if just saying maybe its broken by design
<raghavgururajan>Now-a-days; Someone: I am the JS your to your HTML, Me: Are you free? X-D
<leoprikler>They: "No, but I am everywhere and I will track you down to serve you advertisements."
<leoprikler>cue Yandere laugh
<msavoritias[m]>Or data analytics to improve our services
<rndd>leoprikler: oh, could you please tell me the right way to view already existing eshell aliases?
<Kimapr[m]>Actually something like Lua could be used in web as it is pretty lightweight and is easy to sandbox
<jsoo>Hi guix! Has anyone been working on making emacs 27 the default?
<leoprikler>I'm kinda out of the loop sadly, emacs-next is still at 27.0.91 afaik
<jsoo>I was using emacs-next for a few weeks but had some issues.
<bandali>iirc jackhill is working on that
<pkill9>anyone want to make an alternative web-app system?
<pkill9>just use love2d heh
<jsoo>pkill9: I think you could recruit from many free software communities
<pkill9>that uses lua
<leoprikler>Define "web app system"
<pkill9>i guess you give it a URL and it gets the source and runs it
<rndd>leoprikler: this func returns nill for every aliase i give =(
<leoprikler>rndd I think you have nothing defined yet, then ;)
<jackhill>bandali, leoprikler, jsoo: emacs upgrade. Ah yes. The issue is I need to update it with the released version.
<leoprikler>pkill9: that's really general tho
<rndd>leoprikler: oh, i meant default aliases in eshell (like "cd", "ls", etc)
<jackhill>mroh got a fixed treepy into guix :)
<leoprikler>Like what if my web app system requires you to point at a guix package?
<leoprikler>rndd: those are commands tho
<jackhill>If others want to jump in and get some of the other packages working with 27.1 that would be most welcome.
<rndd>leoprikler: oh, i thought they are written in elisp =(
<jackhill>Looks like notmuch support is comming along:
<leoprikler>rndd: yes, they are
<rndd>leoprikler: how i can view their definitions?
<leoprikler>for ls, look at eshell-do-ls
<leoprikler>generally C-h f eshell/<command>
<jackhill>Sorry for the delays in working on it. I took a vacation. I'll try to get the ticket update once I'm off work in eight of so hours
<rndd>leoprikler: thanl you! i thought i need to C-h f eshell-...
<rndd>*thank ^
<jsoo>jackhill: nice! I might be able to look at the upstream haskell modes
<jackhill>jsoo: that would be great
<hacktivista>well.. IDK, this really doesnt serve my purpose... I wanted an environment for compiling tools without polluting my system with compilation packages
<hacktivista>building a package that will only work with guix is not what I wanted :(
<nckx>Sounds like Guix might not be what you're looking for. It's (IMO of course) not suitable for or aimed at ‘guix environment foo → configure && make’.
<hacktivista>I still think guix is great, just that is not designed to serve this use case
<nckx>You can write a Guix package for your software and use ‘guix pack’ to tar it (and its dependencies) up, and untar it ‘anywhere’, but it will just unpack to a /gnu/store.
<nckx>hacktivista: Agreed 🙂
<hacktivista>Yup, is not what I was looking for
<nckx>Oh, wait, actually there's this -RR (‘really relocatable’) feature that I've never used (100% guix lyfe). Maybe I spoke out of turn.
<nckx>It might be worth investigating, *if* writing a Guix package is acceptable for you.
<nckx>By which I just mean a Guile expression, you don't have to submit it upstream if you don't want to.
<hacktivista>it is acceptable
<hacktivista>will investigate that, thanks
<nckx>Sorry for my rambling, I'm trying to look very serious & scold a cat that's completely ignoring me.
<Kimapr[m]>Hello, is there a way to have `target` derived from my root partition's path (which is found by filesystem label) in bios grub bootloader configuration on guix system?
<nckx>Kimapr[m]: I think target is only resolved at ‘guix system foo’ run-time, when udev and /dev/disk/by-blah is up, not at boot time.
<nckx>So you should be able to use any valid device name or symlink to one.
<nckx>(string-append "/dev/disk/by-uuid/" uuid), say.
<nckx>If I'm wrong, roll back 😛
<Kimapr[m]>but you can't put labels on hdds i guess?
<nckx>No, only file systems.
<nckx>So you want the parent device of your root partition?
<nckx>(string-append "/dev/" (basename (readlink "/dev/disk/by-label/<foo>")))
<nckx>It's a bit hacky because /dev/disk links are relative & readlink doesn't canonicalise, but it's not like they'll ever point outside of /dev anyway so it's fine.
<Kimapr[m]>`basename $(readlink /dev/disk/by-label/dima-guix)` gives me "sdb3"
<Kimapr[m]>so it will give me path of my partition, not the parent device, correct?
<nckx>Yes, you can use moar Guile to chop off the last character, or all trailing digits if you're fancy.
*Kimapr[m] looks it up
*nckx would just use (string-drop-right _ 1) TBH... It's not correct, but I never have >4 partitions. But a better solution would use string-trim.
<nckx>*string-trim-right, of course.
<nckx>Easier than I thought: (string-trim-right _ char-set:digit)
<nckx>The things that are hard or very easy with Guile are weird.
<Kimapr[m]>actually right now i'm exactly at 9 partitions...
<Kimapr[m]>thanks, your suggestion gives me expected results
<nckx>Neat. I hope it works out for you.
<Kimapr[m]>now a dangerous move: burn guix installer image over uefi-duet as i don't have other flashdrives
<Kimapr[m]>i'll be doomed if (1) it doesn't boot, or (2) unexpected shutdown while flashing the image, which implies 1
<nckx>Erk. I was serious about being able to roll back above. This should work but there's no warranty. Make sure you can.
<nckx>Unless you have yet to install of course.
<liltechdude>Hello! When I discover how to get ready for write on usb reduced binary seed only what I found is 1 y.o age branch How to get x86_64 image without compiling on local machine. Thanks
<liltechdude>last sentence is question, of course. Sorry for my poor english
***apteryx_ is now known as apteryx
<Kimapr>dd froze after copying 563823104 bytes
<Kimapr>ah wait it unfroze
<nckx>Kimapr: dd uses regular OS I/O, so it writes fast to cache in RAM, then stops while they are slowly written, and repeat.
<apteryx>interesting. After debugging why my wifi performance and stability turned from stellar to crap I found out that using lower 5 GHz bands works much better than higher ones (e.g., channel 44 vs channel 100). The chip on the AP is a Atheros AR9220, and the client card is Atheros AR928X based.
<Kimapr>was guix image always single-partition?
<nckx>Kimapr: Contrary to myth, dd is not some low-level tool, is just cp with a worse interface.
<nckx>Well, older 🙂
<Kimapr>so i could as well just use cp?
<nckx>Probably, but dd is fine too.
<apteryx>like, it struggled getting 1.6 Mbps speed, and now it easily saturates my 50 Mbps link
<Kimapr>cat X > /dev/sdXX
<nckx>It's just not some direct-I/O magic like some seem to think.
<nckx>Kimapr: With > it's your shell doing the writing, but even that will work if you're in the disk group.
<Kimapr>wait, looks like i just burned guix installation image into *partition* instead of the *device*
<nckx>liltechdude: I'm afraid I don't understand what you're trying to do (feel free to send a longer mail to help-guix at gnu dot org if IRC isn't your jam). This link has all the bootstrap binaries so far, and it also happens to ping the expert:
<Kimapr>should i reflash it on the whole flashdrive instead or it the image doesn't have partition table?
<nckx>Kimapr: The Guix disc image isn't a single partition, quite the opposite. grub-mkrescue creates multiple (even contradictory) partition table types to ensure maximum compatibility. That's why you'll often see Macintosh files when you try to mount it.
<nckx>You have to write it to the whole device.
<nckx>Kimapr: You are talking about the ISO, right?
<Kimapr>yeah, that's why i remember having multiple partitions after writing it on the flashdrive earlier
<bavier[m]1>efraim: what kind of icon issues in netsurf? I recall the "menu" icon being broken/generic for me, maybe other icons missing?
<alextee[m]>'install' phasenote: build failure may have been caused by lack of free disk space
<alextee[m]>i have 16G of free space
<apteryx>alextee[m]: fun, after hours of compiling ;-)
<Kimapr>can you try to open the logs it gives (or should give) you path to?
<Kimapr>you can use bzcat in terminal as they are bz-compressed
<apteryx>nckx: interesting. I always though dd was lower lever than cp
<nckx>alextee[m]: Probably not relevant to the ‘install’ phase (though one never knows), but make sure your /tmp isn't a tmpfs limited by your RAM.
<nckx>apteryx: Oh, I thought so for years. dd has more options (skip= and seek=!) that are very *handy* when dealing with block devices, but all it deals with are regular files, exactly like cp.
<nckx>But can cp convert your files to EBDIC to read on your mainframe? It cannot. But that arcane stuff is no more ‘low-level’ than tr.
<nckx>Aw, KimaprOnPhone means boot failed ☹
<KimaprOnPhone>Hmm not really
<KimaprOnPhone>Just was a bit long at the logo
<KimaprOnPhone>Which i should have expectee as my flashdrive is slower than the hdd, even though both are usb
<alextee[m]>nckx: it's my / partition. i kept monitoring it with df -h
<alextee[m]>it always fails when it gets down to 600ish MB
<alextee[m]>starting at 16G when chromium starts compiling... jesus christ
<alextee[m]>it's beyond me why we depend on 2 sell-out companies to make browsers. why can't random people make one? most other software i use is made by random people
<alextee[m]>i hope the gnome browser becomes a thing in the future
<apteryx>isn't that Epiphany?
<alextee[m]>it crashes a lot or freezes my pc and i get a general feeling it's not built with security/privacy in mind
<nckx>Random people are basically priced out of making ‘A Modern Browser’. The ‘standards’ move too fast for a team of unpaid full-timers to keep up. You have to limit yourself to a subset, and there are plenty of usable smaller browsers that simply don't implement the latest WebFoo. They will always be niche though, because you can't go to and cyber your grandma.
<apteryx>my partner uses it; doesn't seem to crash much if at all. But if you account that it's a very thin wrapper above webkit, then you're still at the mercy of a big company (Apple).
<nckx>*non-full-timers, but even a few unemployed zealots sitting around doing nothing else will have, at best, a bad time.
<alextee[m]>im sure if someone started a project and put in a lot of effort other people in the community would help too and it would become a thing. it's not hard to keep up with standards
<nckx>My position is that it is.
<nckx>And why hasn't the rest of that sentence happened yet? 😛
<leoprikler>It's very hard to keep up with standards, especially if they start to require objectionable technology.
<alextee[m]>funding free software projects is another problem. i dont like how many free software devs work full time in companies doing random things (although some are lucky to be paid to work on free software). we should figure out ways to do free software full time
<leoprikler>(see the whole DRM thing)
<alextee[m]>leoprikler: make better technology! similarly to how RMS started GNU
<alextee[m]>we should be in control of internet standards
<leoprikler>But we aren't.
<leoprikler>Even if we had perfect crowdfunding, the powers that be have still more money to sway web standards into certain directions.
<alextee[m]>i dont know much about networks but I hope GNUnet will get us somewhere and serve as a starting point
<nckx>We'll need a GNUweb on top of the GNUnet.
<bluekeys>Will the guix usb work over serial?
<bluekeys>I mean the installer, if i put it on a usb, do you think I'll be able to get it installed to my server which I can connect to with a serial port? Otherwise I'm gonna have to find a vga cable and keyboard
<nckx>bluekeys: Well, try it :-) If not, you can try booting with something like ‘console=tty0 console=ttyS1,115200n8’ on the kernel command line. If that's not enough, add an explicit (service mingetty-service-type (mingetty-configuration (tty "ttyS0"))) to your operating-system. That requires building your own installer.
<nckx>That's how I installed Guix on a serial-only VPS long ago.
<nckx>OTOH, I just checked two machines connected via USB-A (ttyACM) and neither require any specific configuration. Maybe it's been upstreamed. Hence, try first.
<apteryx>interesting to see where systemd is going: opaque containerization applied to whole system management.
<nckx>‘That looks familiar’ ‘Posted on Mo 01 September 2014’ ‘ah.’
<nckx>Is that still where it's going?
<nckx>I'd definitely try Fedora if that's what it looks like now.
<hendursaga>alextee[m]: Have you tested out GNUnet on Guix yet?
<apteryx>nckx: I believe so! I just looked at the latest entries, and saw a post about "portable service", which exposes more containerization facilities at the service definition level:
<alextee[m]>hendursaga: no, i only tried it for a few minutes when i was on parabola
<apteryx>nckx: err,
<hendursaga>alextee[m]: OK. I just installed gnunet-gtk package yesterday and it doesn't seem to find the binary whatsoever.
*apteryx opens up gnu/services/ssh.scm to write an autossh service. Finds it already exists.
<apteryx>thank you, pinoaffe!
<alextee[m]>is there a way to check which are my largest (in size) packages?
<joshuaBPMan>Hey guix people! I noticed that the default haunt package (as included in guix), does not work with skribilo documents. I created a custom package that hopefully lets haunt work with skribilio. But I can't quite get it to work.
<joshuaBPMan>Here is the package definition:
<joshuaBPMan>What am I doing wrong?
<bluekeys>nckx: Will do... (Meant to hit enter on this ages ago...)
<bluekeys>nckx: I'm just hitting a Welcome to GRUB! and nothing else... Think I need a vga
<joshuaBPMan>alextee[m]: something like guix package -I | awk '{print $4}' | sudo du -h --files0-from=- | sort
<joshuaBPMan>alextee[m]: Though that command won't quite do it for you.
<msavoritias[m]><alextee[m] "im sure if someone started a pro"> There is palemoon and netsurf that have indepent engines
<alextee[m]>hm that fails
<msavoritias[m]>Plus a couple more I forget like dillo
<msavoritias[m]>There doesn't seem to be much development though
<alextee[m]>du: cannot access /gnu/store/...
<msavoritias[m]>I think it is mainly because people don't care about the modern web. With all the frameworks and stuff. Gemini and other stuff like zeronet and gnunet seem to be more active
<alextee[m]>ah i heard of netsurf! i think the libcyaml author is a developer
<alextee[m]>i'll try it
<alextee[m]><msavoritias[m] "I think it is mainly because peo"> so they break with "modern" websites?
<alextee[m]>eg paypal
<alextee[m]>seems bbc works i'll play around with it. the only features i use from chromium are privacy badger and ad block, and blocking 3rd party cookies
<msavoritias[m]>Its a trade of between security and freedom
<msavoritias[m]>As most things in gnu
<msavoritias[m]>I agree that they are very interesting though
<msavoritias[m]>Especially after Mozilla had all the layoffs and the future of Firefox is up in the air
<alextee[m]>not comfortable with all the rust crap anyway, takes too long to build and too much bloat
<alextee[m]>a basic C-based browser like netsurf would probably do. let's see if it crashes more than epiphany
***janneke_ is now known as janneke`
***janneke_ is now known as janneke
<jonsger>is Cuirass completly broken? My laptop did built all day packages and it needs to build a few hundreds left...
<mroh>hendursaga: try to install gnunet also.
<apteryx>what's the state of openjdk vs icedtea as of today? Should I prefer icedtea?
<nckx>apteryx: They don't overlap. Use the version of Java you need: icedtea@(java-version - 5) or openjdk@java-version.
<nckx>So probably openjdk.
<nckx>Thanks for the typo fix.
<kmicu>Whoa, no response to tech slur? Well then I’m not comfortable with sefgfault oriented languages like C(++). 😺
<nckx>I was out looking at the stars. What is tech slur?
<kmicu>Saying that some libre tech is ‘crap’ and ‘bloat’ because we don’t like it.
<nckx>bluekeys: I dug up my old back-ups for that server. It appears (this was years ago) that I used the following script to patch GRUB into using a serial console:
<nckx>I'm not sure if it will apply to current Guix but it shows what needs to happen.
<nckx>kmicu: Oh, I see.
<kmicu>(I understand a constructive criticism like ‘Guix doesn’t support MIPS’ but yelling that ‘Guix is crap’ is not ok because of that.)
<nckx>The only reason it takes long to build is the bootstrap chain.
<nckx>Calling Rust bloated is a strange hill to die on.
<nckx>It's an improvement over C. Don't use it if you don't like it, but people who do have good reasons.
<joshuaBPMan>msavoritias[m]: there's always the brave browser. It's not quite free though I don't think...
<kmicu>Are you steering us into proprietary blobs joshuaBPMan? xD
<joshuaBPMan>nckx: Have you heard about zim? I think. It's trying to replace C, and it's faster than C!
<leoprikler>wasn't it zig?
<joshuaBPMan>kmicu: I don't think there's proprietary blobs...I think there just send your data through a server...So you'd have to trust that remote server won't releav your data.
<joshuaBPMan>leoprikler: yes.. zig my mistake.
<joshuaBPMan>Though zig's problem is that I think it depends on LLVM, which is not as freedom as GCC.
<pkill9>why is it not as free as gcc/
<msavoritias[m]><joshuaBPMan "msavoritias: there's always the "> I don't like the founder. Both for political and for the way he treated the project braver recently. Also the whole crypto thing I find it questionable at best.
<msavoritias[m]>Not a good choice imo
<nckx>Ah, Zig I have heard of (I was searching Zim, which is equally space-themed 🙂)
<joshuaBPMan>pkill9: LLVM is non-copyleft. There are proprietary versions of LLVM. the FSF will legally no proprietary versions of GCC.
<apteryx>pkill9: because its weak license allows proprietary forks to exist and thrive (a la BSD).
<joshuaBPMan>apteryx: exactly.
<nckx>msavoritias[m]: I feel like I'm going to have a hard time Web-searching ‘braver’. What is it? Something like IceCat for Brave?
<msavoritias[m]><nckx "msavoritias: I feel like I'm goi"> It was yes. Now they changed the name
<msavoritias[m]>Never used it though
<nckx>Ah. Trademark stuff eh.
<joshuaBPMan>msavoritias[m]: I suppose that's true. I don't know much about him. I it's nice to see Firefox have a competitor that is NOT google.
<joshuaBPMan>even though brave is based on google's layout engine.
<msavoritias[m]>Yeah. I don't like Mozilla that much for the sane reason
<drakonis>brave browser is a competitor to firefox? say what?
<nckx>Deliberate inviting confusion between your fork by adding a single letter is evil. Good for Brave.
<joshuaBPMan>drakonis: yup.
<msavoritias[m]><joshuaBPMan "even though brave is based on go"> That's a huge issue for me. It helps the monopoly of browsers
<joshuaBPMan>drakonis: yup. Brave is a fork of google chromium. And it is backed by a for profit company.
<msavoritias[m]>In the end its just a chromium reskin
<joshuaBPMan>Brave wants to take firefox users away...if possible.
<drakonis>good lord
<joshuaBPMan>msavoritias[m]: I completely agree. Google is pushing what's it AMP? That weird standard. I would have preferred brave to use the gecko engine...but whatevs.
<drakonis>that's a very strange choice
<joshuaBPMan>drakonis: is it? When you consider market share? What do users naturally choose? They want "fast" and "pretty".
<kmicu>Folks, discussing proprietary browsers on FSDG following channel is a faux pas 😺
<joshuaBPMan>They don't care about anything else...They also want "easy to use".
<drakonis>excuse me while i just moonwalk outta here
<joshuaBPMan>kmicu: oh...Is brave proprietary? May I ask you to point me to its source code that is proprietary? Just curious...I thought it was open source?
<nckx>kmicu: I'm not sure I agree, but I'm not going to argue.
<drakonis>because treating llvm like its less because of its license is weird
<leoprikler>pretty sure it has the same branding issues that chrome and firefox already have
<bluekeys>kmicu: What is FSDG?
<joshuaBPMan>leoprikler: It probably does. It probably violates the spirit of the FSDG.
<leoprikler>Free Software Distribution Guidelines
<nckx>bluekeys: GNU Free Software Distribution Guidelines. It's hard to read the above as an endorsement or encouragement.
<nckx>Saying how Windows sucks or how MacOS does something isn't FSDG-naughty IMO.
<joshuaBPMan>bluekeys: For example, the font-awesome, is "open source"...However, no one knows how to build the latest version.
<bluekeys>Like my TV then?
<joshuaBPMan>So since no one knows how to build it reliable, the FSDG, says, the developer could be building in malicious features. So we shouldn't promote using the latest version.
<joshuaBPMan>bluekeys: hahaha. Well it depends. Can you program your tv? If your tv is not programmable, then it may not break your freedom.
<joshuaBPMan> should have some reading material for you.
<leoprikler>I came across a nice software lately, where not even the CI knew how to build the thing.
<joshuaBPMan>You could also watch stallman's lectures on the subject. He's got lots of videos explaining all that stuff.
<drakonis>joshuaBPMan: what kind of logic is this
<joshuaBPMan>leoprikler: what!? How is that even possible?
<bluekeys>I understand. Thank-you. My TV says if I contact them within 3 years, they will provide me the source code because it is GPL. I think I have to email them with proof of purchase. It's a nice TV. I should contact them, but I'm scared I'll break the TV.
<drakonis>tortured logic
<kmicu> 🤦
<leoprikler>I reverse-engineered a Guix package out of it for a private channel. And yes, it does have licensing issues on top of that.
<drakonis>tormetned logic
<joshuaBPMan>drakonis: As far as I'm aware, the logic behind the FSF.
<joshuaBPMan>and the gnu project. (not trying to be confrontational, just informative) :)
<msavoritias[m]>So everybody can make browsers on it
<msavoritias[m]><joshuaBPMan "msavoritias: I completely agree."> True. I wish Mozilla would make their engine more plug and play
<msavoritias[m]><drakonis "because treating llvm like its l"> Anything using something non GLP 3 should be treated as less if you ask me. If you don't protect the freedom of your users don't expect me to help you.
<msavoritias[m]>But I'm a purist so
<leoprikler>joshuaBPMan: stuff gets outdated. The problem is, that the people made a decided effort to publish really just the code with no data, that would be required to meaningfully run it.
<joshuaBPMan>kmicu: dang...I feel like I stand corrected. I really thought it was "open source".
<leoprikler>They have since published some of the data, but it's still incomplete.
<joshuaBPMan>leoprikler: who is "they have since published some of the data?" are we talking about brave or font-awesome now?
<leoprikler>the unnamed software whose build I reverse-engineered
<leoprikler>(i.e. neither)
<joshuaBPMan>leoprikler: check our private message for a joke from me.
<bluekeys>Someone's given me an old server. It's very nondescript. I've given in now, and have a vga and keyboard plugged in and the latest guix release on a usb. I can boot the usb and see some of the early boot process and then it all just goes black. What can I do to try and find the cause of the problem?
<nckx>bluekeys: So you can use the GRUB menu?
<bluekeys>Yes. I can now.
<nckx>First thing to try: hit ‘e’ to edit the default menu entry, then add ‘nomodeset’ to the end of the ‘linux ...’ line, then hit C-x to boot.
<nckx>That's also my last idea 😛
<apteryx>bluekeys: do you have a serial cable? You'd probably see something there.
<kmicu>That’s the fix for my old laptop with an ATI card.
<bluekeys>I can see 2 options, guix and drivers. I'm rebooting now to get back to it. 1 moment please...
<joshuaBPMan>nckx: That's what solved it for me too. With my AMD APU.
<bluekeys>I have a serial, but it was getting stuck at Welcome to GRUB!. I could plug in a vga and see things happen that were being entered over serial but in the end I disconnected the serial and just stuck with vga and a keyboard. I wasn't getting any additional output over the serial that I couldn't already see on the screen
<bluekeys>Here goes...
<apteryx>I see.
<bluekeys>No way!
<bluekeys>The resolution is a little out, but I can see the white and blue installer!!
<bluekeys>Anyone wanna pick the name for the server hostname?
<nckx>(PS: I don't think you need to add ‘nomodeset’ to your actual system configuration because it's specific to the KMScon used by the installer, but I'll defer to joshuaBPMan/kmicu.)
<joshuaBPMan>bluekeys: I just send you a private message...hahaha.
<bluekeys>haha. Anyone else?
<joshuaBPMan>bluekeys: how about a character that you like from a book?
<joshuaBPMan>My hostname for my laptop is dobby.
<bluekeys>I actually like the movie brave... I've gone with that ;)
<nckx>Troll level 9000.
<bluekeys>kmicu: It was tough, but you were a close second
<kmicu>nckx: that’s right, only needed during installagion and m _ bakke asked to file an issue with problematic cards.
<nckx>bluekeys: I like ‘nckx’, I think that's a good hostname.
<bluekeys>root password anyone ?
<joshuaBPMan>cat purple boot
<kmicu>аdmin123 is more secure
<apteryx>bluekeys: 'root', of course
<joshuaBPMan>bluekeys: You'll need to add to your config... linux arguments nomodset...
<apteryx>that way you'll never forget
<joshuaBPMan>can someone help me with the syntax?
<joshuaBPMan>I'll look my own config may have it.
<bluekeys>ahaha. too many decisions. ooh apteryx: you win root it is they'll never guess that
<nckx>Interesting that joshuaBPMan and kmicu's experiences are totally different.
<nckx>joshuaBPMan: What kind of card do you have, and what happens when you boot your system without nomodeset?
<joshuaBPMan>nckx: please don't defer to me.
<joshuaBPMan>you know guix that I do.
<kmicu>ATI is older, maybe that’s why. 🤷
<joshuaBPMan>I am currently running on a T400. I no longer use nomodeset.
<joshuaBPMan>and now that I think about it, after I installed guix, I did not need to add linux-arguments nomodeset
<joshuaBPMan>so forget what I just said. Also, nckx is super awesome dudes. His code is soo beautiful.
<bluekeys>What does nomodeset do? I could see graphics before at the grub window, how come the installer wasn't visible until I added it?
<joshuaBPMan>nckx: He also helped me out with a couple of confusing guix problems. When is Guix System going to start paying you?
<bluekeys>You mean nckx isn't a bot?
<joshuaBPMan>bluekeys: nomodeset, tells linux keep the graphics SIMPLE.
<bluekeys>Ah, thank-you
<joshuaBPMan>Do not do GUIs. Just try to use text interfaces.
<joshuaBPMan>bluekeys: hahaha. Nope. nckx is just a really cool hip dude.
<mroh>except magit
*kmicu 😴
<nckx>‘keeps graphics simple’☝ that's basically it, depending on your definition of simple (no part of the Linux console code is simple). It disables KMS (kernel mode-setting), which some free drivers don't support well. At least that's my understanding since I don't own any affected cards.
<bluekeys>I'm happy with that. Do you think I'm being too ambitious if I enable the tor anonymous network router. I'm already worried my network cards aren't going to work...
<nckx>Good night kmicu.
<joshuaBPMan>bluekeys: my reccomendation is this: use a simple guix config. Do not enable too many services.
<joshuaBPMan>Guix takes a while to install. After you install something that works, then after you reboot, then install more stuff.
<nckx>joshuaBPMan: Strange, such sudden suspicious sycophancy...
<joshuaBPMan>I've had issues in the past where I tried to build and install everything, and the installer failed to work half way through. Then I had to reinstall all over again.
<nckx>(That sounds more mean than intended but ‘flattery’ doesn't alliterate.)
<joshuaBPMan>joshuaBPMan does and looks up the word sycophancy...
<nckx>joshuaBPMan: I'm going to quote you on the ‘really cool hip dude’ part.
<nckx>people on the Internet think I'm cool!
<leoprikler>Achievement get!
<nckx>No they don't pay me why do you ask.
<joshuaBPMan>nckx: hahaha!
<joshuaBPMan>"How to win friends and influence people".
<leoprikler>Tbf if you can work from a minimal install (i.e. nothing but a shell), then that's usually the way to go with any distro
<joshuaBPMan>Chapter 1 and chapter 2 is what I have been trying to practice.
<nckx>Well, mission accomplished I'd say.
<nckx>Consider me influenced.
<bluekeys>Me too, my machine's named brave!
<joshuaBPMan>sorry that laughter was completely unrelated. hahahahahaha.
<nckx>Outside, lightning strikes.
<leoprikler>This laughter has been sponsored by RAID: Shadow Legends.
<nckx>bluekeys: I second that recommendation.
<nckx>Don't enable all the cool stuff right away, but do try to enable networking, it's handy.
<joshuaBPMan>nckx: "I hope to live to be 100 years and 1 day. I hope you live to be 100. That way, I am always with you."
<leoprikler>(That's what you meant by "influencing people", right?)
<joshuaBPMan>-Winnie the Pooh
<bluekeys>Wow, the system is pulling bits from I guess the network card just works! I'm too far in to disable the choice to use tor. What is the effect expected to be? All traffic leaving the device goes via tor? Is that correct?
<nckx>joshuaBPMan: Oh... er... I... I'm already seeing someone, sorry...
<joshuaBPMan>leoprikler: well, dale carnegie actually talked about influencing people. He gave an example of telling a man at a store "You have such lovely hair."
<joshuaBPMan>The may said "thanks." Most people say that too.
<joshuaBPMan>Dale then said...did I influence this man? Yes.
<joshuaBPMan>Did I get anything out of it other than the pleasure of having made his day? No.
<nckx>bluekeys: I don't think so.
<joshuaBPMan>Dale's tombstone said something like, "Here lies a man who surrounded himself by people who were clever than himself."
<joshuaBPMan>I think he was just a nice guy in some ways. He recognized that the best way to lead a business is to inspire and encourge his employees.
<joshuaBPMan>nckx: hahaha. does she have a sister?
<joshuaBPMan>bluekeys: if you are seeing it pull stuff down, then you're probably good.
<joshuaBPMan>bluekeys: you may like my peertube channel.
<joshuaBPMan>I've been uploading a few guix things.
<bluekeys>Wow. I'm stoked. I've been fighting against my laptop and foreign distro config but am not in a position I can just kill the laptop's OS and install guix. Having guix hosted on bare metal on a decent server is going to be rad!
<joshuaBPMan>bluekeys: Oh yeah. If you get to understanding nginx, you could start hosting static blog pages for friends or people.
<joshuaBPMan>May be a decent way to make a little $$.
<bluekeys>Thanks joshua. I'll check it out
<joshuaBPMan>You're welcome.
<joshuaBPMan>joshua looks at his clock and realizes he would like to work on the website for his client.
<bluekeys>Yeah, with guix it feels like the sky's the limit. I'm less worried about breaking things, if I could just get guile down, I know I'd never look back.
<joshuaBPMan>bluekeys: guix install SICP; info SICP;
<joshuaBPMan>It is the one of the better "teach" yourself scheme books. Think of a scheme developer that you like, and they have most likely read that book.
<bluekeys>I found it a little dry... I'll try it again.