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<Blackbeard>Is there a guix way to run virtual machines?
<Blackbeard>I just want to run a browser more securely. Should I use it inside a container?
<lfam>Blackbeard: It's hard to figure out what parts of the host system need to be exposed to the browser in the container
<lfam>If I wanted to do something like that I would use a VM with `guix system vm-image`, but it really depends on what you are trying to protect against
<Blackbeard>lfam: oh well, just to run websites that requiere Javascript for my school, like websites to find and download papers
<pkill9_>Blackbeard: i just worked out how to run graphical software in a guix container: `guix container --share=/tmp` and set the DISPLAY variable
<pkill9_>making /tmp read/write is necessary so the software can access the xorg socket at /tmp, although looking at it now i can't find the socket
<pkill9_>chromium doesn't work, but icecat does
<Blackbeard>pkill9_: how do you set the display variable ? What argument does it get?
<pkill9_>Blackbeard: `export DISPLAY=:0`
<vagrantc>if it has access to your X server, it can do ... a lot of security-scary things
<vagrantc>e.g. read keystrokes, other windows, etc.
<pkill9_>what if you're running wayland and it uses xwayland?
<vagrantc>i'm not as familiar with wayland, but i presume all the parts within "X" have the same problem
<vagrantc>like with all security concerns, it's a threat-modeling thing
<bdju>Not on a guix machine at the moment, can someone tell me if the transmission package features the qt version of the client?
<bdju>It has some features the gtk version doesn't apparently.
<pkill9_>there is only the gtk version
<bdju>hm okay
<pkill9_>i can't expose /dev into a guix contianer
<pkill9_>if i run `guix environment --container --expose=/dev` it returns 'guix environment: error: mount: mount "/dev" on "/tmp/guix-directory.l0ZTL4//dev": Invalid argument'
<pkill9_>oh, it already creates a /dev/directory
<lfam>What features does the Qt version have bdju?
<bdju>It can connect to a remote daemon a bit like transmission-remote-cli and transmission-remote-gtk, but these two remote clients can't rename files in a torrent, an incredibly important feature for me. Supposedly the Qt version has the remote support built in and also supports renaming files in the torrent file list.
<bdju>I've also found that "stig" can rename remote torrent files, but it's cli/tui only and not packaged on guix yet.
<bdju>Unsure if tremc can rename files. It's possible.
<lfam>Tremc can do it
<bdju>I've been testing from NixOS where reverse of Guix, stig was packaged and tremc wasn't. Although the stig build fails right now so I actually ended up trying stig from an arch machine. It's all a bit of a mess.
<lfam>Tremc is a really trivial program, it should be possible to use on any OS that has Python
<lfam>It doesn't even get "built". It's just a Python script
<bdju>Ah, interesting. I usually stick to what's in the package manager, so I must confess I didn't try very hard.
<pkill9_>i have aweird issue, if i run a container and give access to /dev/dri, mesa loads the GPU driver, but when i also add the --network flag to llow network access, it can't
<Blackbeard>pkill9_: thanks :)
<mmcar>finally got guixSD installed on my x60 thinkpad. When it boots though it freezes at a point and there's just random noise on the screen. Is this a common problem? Not really sure what else to do.
<pkill9_>i think when you give network access to a guix container, all X applications try to access the X server over a network protocol rather than a unix socket, and i think X11 over network doesn't support GPU acceleration
<pkill9_>that's probably not the reason tbh
<Blackbeard>lfam: guix system vm-image is really interesting
<mmcar`>Got my install working for the first time! Turned out a certain kernel module had to be blacklisted for it to boot properly. How long is 'guix pull' supposed to take on first run? Mine has only displayed 'Updating channel 'guix' from git repository at [..]' for about 10 minutes now.
<Formbi>maybe your connection is a bit slow
<sulr70>After re-configuring the system with `guix system reconfigure /etc/config.scm`, I can not enter the gdm. It shows 'Removed session c1.'. There is terminal login prompt and I can login to the command line. I fixed the problem by changing the ownership of files under /var/lib/grm/ according to While, I still have no idea why it happened.
<apteryx>rekado_: tried nfs with ipv6 disabled on both sides, but still get the same atrocious performance and logs (
<sneek>apteryx, you have 1 message!
<sneek>apteryx, raghavgururajan says: Let me know if 11 (mediastreamer) is all good to be pushed. :-)
<Guest4962>HI! I just installed Guix on an X200 Tablet thinkpad and would like to know how to enable the touchscreen.
<sneek>Welcome back Guest4962, you have 1 message!
<sneek>Guest4962, raghavgururajan says: You could get more help regarding your question in #guile channel.
<Guest4962>BTW, Iǘe already installed inputattach
<Veera>Hi guix
<Blackbeard>Veera: hi
<Veera>Blackbeard: Hi
*jsoo confused by service {extension,composition,extension}
<raghavgururajan>Hello Guix!
<raghavgururajan>apteryx o/ How's evrything?
<apteryx>raghavgururajan: It's going well! My son is asleep, so I have a bit of time to look at NFS problems and hopefully Linphone too :-)
<raghavgururajan>apteryx Thanks so much! :-)
<apteryx>np! Thanks for your patience.
<apteryx>rekado_: it seems to be spending all those IOs on doing GETATTR, as reported by 'mountstats': GETATTR: 723 ops (84%)
<raghavgururajan>apteryx Btw, sorry if I kinda rushed you. xD. I was planning on recording this linphone work as contribution, in outreachy's final application, whose deadline is April 7.
<apteryx>ohh, that is coming fast!
<apteryx>rekado_: oh wow, the disk chatter I was hearing was caused by heavy logging to /var/log/messages. Thanks to rotative disks.
<apteryx>After more investigation, all look normal. The bad performance I saw once must have been due to local wifi glitches. Sorry for the noise!
*apteryx back to linphone
<apteryx>raghavgururajan: the only issue reported by Danny about mediastreamer was the lack of the GSM codec?
<apteryx>raghavgururajan: you didn't reply yet to Danny's comments about 11-add-mediastreamer-v2, in case you missed it
<apteryx>ah no, my mistake you did :-)
*guix-vits Hi there; "afk"
<Blackbeard>guix-vits: hi
<bavier`>Veera: I'm working on merging your xplanet patch
<sulr70>I am now customizing my xfce desktop, I installed xfce4-cpugraph-plugin, but found it didn't work. I can not find it from xfce4 panel.
<bavier`>sulr70: sometimes restarting the DE is needed for packages like that
<sulr70>bavier`: I have even restarted the system
<apteryx>raghavgururajan: review sent for mediastream2
<raghavgururajan>apteryx Thanks, I just saw. I gonna send v3 patch to make the patch local and add comment for it.
<apteryx>actually, in the next message you'll get from me, you'll find a way to simply disable -Werror
<apteryx>with a supported build option
<apteryx>which means the patch is no longer necessary
<raghavgururajan>apteryx I did try strict=no before using patch, but it disables all strict flags and not just -Werror.
<raghavgururajan>apteryx STRP is superseded by ZRTP, which is used when SRTP is set to NO. ZRTP for belle-sip is provided by BZRTP package.
<apteryx>SRTP and ZRTP are not the same thing? SRTP is like some TLS encryption of the RTP streams, while ZRTP is some new way to negotiate secrets and encrypt. If you have a VoIP provider that uses SRTP you can't use ZRTP as a drop-in replacement.
<apteryx>superseded as in the sense they are obsoleting SRTP support entirely?
<raghavgururajan>Hmm I see
<raghavgururajan>Yeah, that's the impression I got from BZRTP development.
<raghavgururajan>May be I misunderstood. I\ll recheck.
<raghavgururajan>apteryx I think so. In the cmake options, if ZRTP is YES, then SRTP is set to NO.
<apteryx>by default, but ZRTP=YES and SRTP=YES must be supported?
<Veera__>bavier`: very nice
<raghavgururajan>Or is could be vice versa, when SRTP is NO, ZRTP is YES.
<raghavgururajan>Just a sec
***Veera__ is now known as Veera
<Veera>bavier`: very nice
<raghavgururajan>option(ENABLE_SRTP "Build with the SRTP transport support." YES)
<raghavgururajan>cmake_dependent_option(ENABLE_ZRTP "Build with ZRTP support." YES "ENABLE_SRTP" NO)
<raghavgururajan>apteryx ^
<apteryx>yeah, I'm reading this:
<raghavgururajan>Did I interpreted it correctly?
<apteryx>raghavgururajan: no, we didn't :-)
<apteryx>ZRTP implies SRTP
<apteryx>or requires
<raghavgururajan>apteryx LoL. Perfect timing. I was reading about ZRTP and saw that it uses SRTP in itself.
<apteryx>cool. so zrtp is really just about negociating secrets then
<raghavgururajan>So enabling ZRTP (YES), also implents SRTP in itself?
<apteryx>about the strict warnings, I'd still err on the side of ignoring warnings.
<apteryx>We don't really want the package to break for warnings. This is more helpful to the Linphone developers who want to maintain the code.
<raghavgururajan>So STRICT=NO is better, correct?
<apteryx>yes. More resilient, and simpler for us.
<apteryx>ah, it fails without the patch: /tmp/guix-build-mediastreamer-2.16.1.drv-0/mediastreamer-2.16.1/src/base/msfactory.c:177:71: error: expected ‘)’ before ‘MS2_GIT_VERSION’
<apteryx>seems libgsm is absent in guix
<raghavgururajan>Oh yes, the patch also fixes that. Almost forgot
<raghavgururajan>we have gsm at audio.scm
<apteryx>please add a comment about this above the patch
<apteryx>we won't question it anymore ;-)
<raghavgururajan>But needs recompilation with -fPIC
<apteryx>looking at it
<apteryx>has just 6 dependents :D
<apteryx>we can do it
<apteryx>what happens otherwise? (without -fPIC) ?
<apteryx>ld: /gnu/store/0l3h1nyci115dv6c75l8js4ndry4ghjq-gsm-1.0.18/lib/libgsm.a(add.o): relocation R_X86_64_32 against `.rodata' can not be used when making a shared object; recompile with -fPIC
<apteryx>I see.
<raghavgururajan>Yeah, exactly that.
<apteryx>I'll see if I can tackle this in 10 min
<apteryx>(-fPIC for gsm)
<raghavgururajan>I tried #:configure-flags "CFLAGS=-fPIC"
<raghavgururajan>build fine. but sure its the right way.
<raghavgururajan>*not sure
<apteryx>won't help cause ; no configure script :-)
<apteryx>perhaps as a make flag
<raghavgururajan>Ah yeah.
<raghavgururajan>apteryx If use make flag, I get "ERROR: In procedure apply: Apply to non-list: ("-j" "2" . "CFLAGS=-fPIC")".
<raghavgururajan>oh (list
<raghavgururajan>src/code.c:9:10: fatal error: config.h: No such file or directory
<raghavgururajan>src/add.c:16:10: fatal error: private.h: No such file or directory
<apteryx>success I think!
<raghavgururajan>You got it?
<apteryx>yes, we now have libgsm in mediastreamer and it builds
<raghavgururajan>Nice. What did you do?
<raghavgururajan>Would you be able to push your gsm patch? I'll remove "-DENABLE_GSM=NO" line in my next patch.
<apteryx>I'm working on that
<apteryx>it builds with libsrtp as well
<apteryx>raghavgururajan: it's in as commit 74c7f367da
<apteryx>with this, I'm off to bed. Looks like we can merge mediastreamer tomorrow if you can adjust the other things.
<apteryx>good night!
<raghavgururajan>Thanks so much.
<apteryx>my pleasure!
<raghavgururajan>Yes, I will be adjusting things and send new revision in few minutes.
<raghavgururajan>sneek, later tell apteryx: 1) The last gsm patch broke the package. xD. Nothing gets installed in output folders bin, include, lib and share. I fixed the issue by sending new patch (#40445).
<sneek>Will do.
<raghavgururajan>sneek, later tell apteryx: 2) Also, mediastreamer did not technically build with SRTP. I saw "MS will be built without SRTP support" during the build. I fixed the issue by using another patch, which I included in the new revision patch (11-add-mediastreamer-v3).
<Gooberpatrol66>how does /etc/bashrc work in guix? i put something in there and it was overwritten by an update.
<bricewge>Gooberpatrol66: The content of /etc/static managed by Guix overwrite /etc
<bricewge>You may want to look into the `skeletons` field
<bricewge>Oops not skeletons
<bricewge>It's the `etc-service-type` you need to use.
<Veera>Hi guix
<sneek>Welcome back brendyyn, you have 1 message!
<sneek>brendyyn, rekado_ says: I’m sorry you find “really bad”. Could you please send constructive criticism as a reply to the thread “Brainstorming features for” on guix-devel?
<brendyyn>rekado_: sorry i didnt mean to be rude about it.
<civodul>Hello Guix!
<brendyyn>I just read Tobias's email about native inputs and realised id never understood them well.
<xavierm02>Hey. Is the dropping Linux news an april fool?
<janneke>xavierm02: however, this weekend we got our first hello world guix hurd vm booted
<xavierm02>I saw. That's what made the thing too believable
<xavierm02>Somewhat unrelated question: How far off is Hurd from being a good idea for VMs in QubesOS?
<xavierm02>And if one were to switch from Linux to Hurd, is it really just about changing two lines in the config.scm or there's a lot of stuff to do?
<janneke>xavierm02: interesting questions; as for the config.scm: we have a custom way of building the vm; not through "operating-system" yet, no shepherd/services yet
<civodul>we're not there yet, but it could well be a couple of lines in config.scm to choose the OS
<janneke>so, that's probably a long path still with some open questions for me: do we really need qemu for a system reconfigure; etc
<janneke>otoh, `guix' runs on debian hurd, builds everything up to "hello", so lots of what needs to be done is "just work"
<xavierm02>@janneke "A lot of things are already packaged in Debian, so packaging this stuff in Guix is 'just work'" :D
<civodul>janneke: i've pushed two commits on Savannah, you can rebase and push your on top if you want
<xavierm02>When wandering in the internet, trying to figure whether it was an april fool or not, I found an IRC log where someone said that Guix was going to start using some typed language (Shen I think) and I was really happy for one second, until I realized it was a joke with the remainder of the sentence "to detect run-time errors" (or something like that) ...
<janneke>civodul: great; testing here without the remount,rw hack first
<janneke>xavierm02: guile is a strictly typed language ;)
<janneke>i could imagine that some static typing could be feasible and might actually be helpful
<brendyyn>when only some is used you have gradual typing, which incures a high performance penalty.
<xelxebar>running guix pull and then guix system reconfigure, the latter is giving me a warning to run guix pull and guix system reconfigure...
<xelxebar>Am I doing something wrong?
<brendyyn>xelxebar: did you use sudo? try with sudo -E
<janneke>civodul: well, it looks promising...but without the remount,rw hack "read-only file system" -- so pushed including that HACK and retry!
<xelxebar>brendyyn: Your divination is strong. Will try. What vars need to be propogated?
<brendyyn>xelxebar: hmm for me are the same. are you sure you are running the guix at .config/current/bin/guix ?
<xelxebar>Just to be clear, the warning happens with 'sudo guix pull && sudo guix reconfigure <config>'
<brendyyn>even the second time you run it?
<xelxebar>brendyyn: Yes.
<brendyyn>and did -E fix it?
<xelxebar>Well, sudo -E guix pull is throwing an error
<xelxebar>But so is plain guix pull from my user
<brendyyn>no thats bad. the -E should be on the configure one
<xelxebar>It looks like /var/guix/profiles/per-user/guest/curent-guix is pointing to a non-existent path
<brendyyn>That's good that it errors, because your saying use root to update your users guix
<xelxebar>Oh right.
<xelxebar>The flow should be more like: guix pull & sudo -E guix system reconfigure ...
<brendyyn>sudo -E guix system configure... means "use my guix (that i just guix pulled), but with root privileges to build and install the system.
<xelxebar>I see. Since we update the system from the user's fresh copy of the repo
<xelxebar>Hehe. Yeah.
<brendyyn>the roots guix is kinda lonely and dead. i have not updated mine since last year a think
<brendyyn>generally you don't need it
<xelxebar>Unfortunately, I seem to have broken the user's setup somewhere; guix pull is failing
<xelxebar>Probably due to the broken profile symlink?
<xelxebar>.config/guix/current points to a symlink that references a nonexisting path
<brendyyn>running sudo guix pull may have caused some damage im not sure
<xelxebar>Is there a standard way to fix these things? Or is manual intervention reasonable?
<xavierm02>@brendyyn I don't think you necessarily get a performance penalty. You can think of dynamically typed as statically typed with a unique type that's a big sum type of every possible type, and so each habitant comes with a tag that tells you which component of the sum it came from, i.e. which type it has. When adding static typing, one often wants to get rid of the tags (because you already know which tag it's going to be
<xavierm02>thanks to the static type), and so in this case, yes, you loose time adding and removing tags every time you switch from a statically typed context to a dynamically typed one. But you could also leave the tags, and then the program would run exactly as if no static typing had been done, and the static typing would just be used to detect errors.
<brendyyn>xelxebar: how is guix pull failing
<brendyyn>actually my guix pull is broken now too and i didnt even do anything @_@
<xelxebar>several messages like this: cannot build derivation `/gnu/store/bb1xysz01x4j9mdaxgpg11q1i2bdpfms-guix-system-tests-modules.drv': 1 dependencies couldn't be built
<xelxebar>Oh no... My problems are contagious...
<brendyyn>same. i will investigate
<brendyyn>dont go hacking your system to pieces just yet ;)
*xelxebar sits tight
<brendyyn>xelxebar: looks like the most recent patch changes some module stuff
<brendyyn>try guix pull --commit=8c88e24229
*xelxebar tries
<brendyyn>my laptop battery died.
<xelxebar>eek. Welcome back
<xelxebar>In process of pulling
<brendyyn>whats strange is my battery says 80%
<xelxebar>Old battery?
<brendyyn>yeah but that's not normal
<guix-vits>how to set up an Objective-C compiler in Guix?
<xelxebar>brendyyn: Hrm. I've definitely had similar, where a low battery goes from ~5% to 20% immediately after plugging in.
<xelxebar>by the way, your commit-specfic pull worked, fixing the user profile in the process
<leoprikler>guix-vits: shouldn't we already have one in gcc-toolchain?
<leoprikler>or is that just c/c++?
<guix-vits>leoprikler: it's gives me error in environment, that no Objective-C compilers found (gcc-objc installed)
<leoprikler>do you only have gcc-objc?
<guix-vits>leoprikler: `guix environment --ad-hoc gcc-toolchain@8.4.0 gcc-objc@8.4.0 gcc-objc++@8.4.0 nspr gnustep-make mesa python2 perl glu sdl`
<guix-vits>leoprikler: guix 6c38810 (week-two old)
<leoprikler>Looking at my local guix, it appears the only other package which refers to gcc-objc is rust-objc, although not as input.
<leoprikler>So it might very well be broken, I have no idea.
<leoprikler>try (make-gcc-toolchain gcc-objc) inside a manifest, perhaps that works better
<guix-vits>leoprikler: thanks, i'll....
<bricewge>brendyyn: What's up with the last commit?
<guix-vits>leoprikler: was unable to use it in manifest. created a package, installed it and seen, that there is the files in (...)/libexec, but no gcc in $PATH
<leoprikler>can you use stuff from libexec perhaps?
<guix-vits>leoprikler: .mm files throws some errors (like "argument for driver, but not for Obj-C"; in oolite (from wishlist))
<guix-vits>* .m files
<leoprikler>sorry, but that tells me nothing, what command are you using?
<brendyyn>bricewge: i didnt look into it carefully but it breaks guix-system-test when running guix pull
<leoprikler>are we talking about 044d1478c9a63a64547c9cc320008f8d8fbf6791?
<leoprikler>it appears a test has been added, perhaps that test breaks on other people's machines?
*guix-vits thinks
<brendyyn>i may have made a mistake but i thought guix worked on the previous coommit let me check again
<bricewge>My first service get merged and it broke guix. Great
<leoprikler>It happens to the best of us.
<leoprikler>Tbf I don't even run make check most of the time and I probably should.
<bricewge>I don't see how the test would break on other's machine since it runs in qemu
<leoprikler>does it run fine on yours?
<bricewge>make check passes, at least on my side
<brendyyn>8c88e2422 builds. ill show you the error in a second
<bricewge>Yes the modified system test pass on my side
<brendyyn>my laptop died after it failed last time so i didnt get to save the message
<brendyyn>oh no i think it downloaded a substitute this tiem
<brendyyn>xelxebar: did you save the error message you got?
*raghavgururajan almost forgot #40263
<efraim>lfam: I figured out how to work folding in vim and I'd be willing to do the initial merge of crates into crates-io.scm before reviewing if that would be helpful
<brendyyn>check your email in a minute
<bricewge>brendyyn: Thanks
*raghavgururajan --> zzZ
<brendyyn>bricewge: ping me if youd like me to run any commands and test things
<bricewge>brendyyn: guix pull succeeded on my machine
<bricewge>I don't understand the log in relation to the modification the commit brings
<brendyyn>its changing every time.
<leoprikler>In copy-build-system is there a fast way to list all files in the directory, but not the subdirectories?
<pkill9>does anyone run shepherd as a user?
<pkill9>for user services
<brendyyn>sorry my laptop died after it failed the first time. the first time it look related, now different things are breaking
<pkill9>if so, how do you manage it?
<bricewge>pkill9: Yes
<bricewge>brendyyn: Ho boy, it doesn't look good...
<brendyyn>sorry you see i thought this was a simple bug report, id just tell you, and youd see what was wrong. i guess not
<pkill9>bricewge: how do you do it?
<pkill9>e.g. defining services
<leoprikler>I do
<leoprikler>you have a init.scm
<leoprikler>in $XDG_CONFIG_HOME/shepherd
<leoprikler>you just write scheme code there, pretty nice ;)
<bricewge>Yes that's all there is to it
<bricewge>I start it from ~/.xprofile with this config
<brendyyn>i hope its not related to my sysem complaining about : ext4_dx_add_entry:2343: Directory (ino: 24903688) index full, reach max htree level :2
<pkill9>the actual config for shepherd looks a lot simpler to make a service than with guix, i was expecting it to be confusing
<bricewge>brendyyn: I hope it isn't related to my commit ;p
<pkill9>i guess guix introduces another layer to creating services
<bricewge>pkill9: I took inspiration from and
<bricewge>Yup and in guix not all "services" are "shepherd services".
<brendyyn>bricewge: i build successfully after running guix gc
<bricewge>brendyyn: Yaay!
<brendyyn>wow guix gc is taking its toll. I have low cpu usage but my whole system is lagging up. it 10 seconds for htop to load and it shows 8GiB of ram in blue meaning buffers
<pkill9>is shepherd deliberately designed to omit capturing process output? Or has it just not been implemented?
<bricewge>Do you meaning logging?
<bricewge>If so, it does have a look at for example
<pkill9>yea logging
<brendyyn>bricewge: pkill9 would you mind running find /gnu/store/.links|wc -l, and showing me the number. im curious what number is normal
<bricewge>brendyyn: 2982950
<pkill9>is it possible to access a service's logs with a herd command? like `herd log <service>`
<brendyyn>ok not so bad. i had 5.5 million and thast after guix spent 10 minutes deleting them
<bricewge>pkill9: No, but it would be *really* nice. I miss that from systemd
<pkill9>i used 'fd' in place of 'find'
<pkill9>i'll see if find returns the same
<pkill9>bricewge: yea, shouldn't be too hard to implement if the log file is specified
<mbakke>civodul: I thought I had written down the magical SQLite incantation to switch the Cuirass package jobset, but can't find it... do you remember roughly what needs to be changed?
<pkill9>ok now i get 6057098 brendyyn
<brendyyn>i wish i kept my old system generations from 2016. itd be nice to come back in 2050 and show the kids exactly what my system was back then just by selecting a menu in grub ;)
<bricewge>I mean you can implement it on a service basis. By defining a log action,
<bricewge>pkill9: I think there is bug somewhere to add such a feature
<civodul>mbakke: i dropped a howto in maintenance.git, lemme see
<Blackbeard>Good morning guix :D
<bricewge>Hello Blackbeard
<civodul>mbakke: doc/, does it have what you want?
<mbakke>civodul: seems like it, thanks! :)
<civodul>pkill9: "herd log" does not exist, but it'd be nice!
<leoprikler>you can implement log for your own service via actions
<leoprikler>syntax should be herd <action> service, so that would be exaclty what you want
<pkill9>also, is there a way to list available actions for a service?
<leoprikler>when you enter some BS on the command line herd suggests "herd doc root list-actions"
<leoprikler>so the standard seems to be herd doc as an action for all your documentation needs ;)
<pkill9>i get herd: service 'redshift' does not have an action 'sfsaf'
<leoprikler>yep, that is to be expected
<leoprikler>do you have an sfsaf action?
<pkill9>no, i was putting in BS
<pkill9>and list-actions doesn't exist as an action
<leoprikler>again, you'd have to implement the doc action on your own
<leoprikler>list-actions should be quite easy via quine magic
<pkill9>i mean, you said that when you enter some BS on the command line herd suggests "herd doc root list-actions", i was just testing and it doesn't
<pkill9>i thought list-actions went before the service
*rekado_ writes more legacy software now
***rekado_ is now known as rekado
<pkill9>how do you shut down shepherd? i can't kill it normally, and killing it with -9 doesn't remove the socket
<bricewge>brendyyn: Could you close #40447 if it's not related to that specific commit? Danny started to wonder why it failed too.
<bricewge>pkill9: herd stop root
<brendyyn>bricewge: done
<brendyyn>bricewge: sorry for wasting your time. it was really a bad coincidence that the first time it failed it showed errors that looked related, and it failed for your commit, but not the previous one
<ennoausberlin>Hello. Is there a way to install chicken scheme eggs on guixsd? The store is read only and the CHICKEN_REPOSITORY environment variable is ignored
<sneek>Welcome back ennoausberlin, you have 1 message!
<sneek>ennoausberlin, nckx says: I forgot to tell you to remove ‘insmod hfsplus’ since that can only confuse GRUB.
<leoprikler>Does chicken have a load path variable similar to guile, e.g. CHICKEN_LOAD_PATH?
<leoprikler>or is CHICKEN_REPOSITORY meant to be that?
<bricewge>brendyyn: No problem :)
<ennoausberlin>leoprikler: I have not heard about it. But I use chicken scheme not that often.
<leoprikler>AFAIK we don't have any packages that depend on it, but I think one should be able to use it somehow
<leoprikler>not a chicken guru though
<ennoausberlin>leoprikler: Thank you
<Veera>Hi Guix
***llnu is now known as llnu__
***llnu__ is now known as llnu
<guix-vits>Hi Veera.
*guix-vits "`guix build -L . gcc-0-toolchain ;+objc`" probably oolite is a great game, and they've used something similar to Flatpak before it become a thing... But c'mon, aren't games should be trivial to package?
<rekado>what makes you think games should be trivial to package? They are often among the more difficult applications.
<guix-vits>rekado: honestly, idk why i'm think so.
<brendyyn>even fonts are complicated.
<str1ngs>rekado: I noticed you were looking at the elisp language is scheme. do you know if it's possible to call scheme from elisp?
<str1ngs>rekado: err I meant guile
<leoprikler>games are very trivial to package. You just need a docker inside a flatpak and 100+ binary blobs and everything works fine
<leoprikler>maybe spin up a VM while you're at it
<rekado>str1ngs: from within Elisp you can access other Guile modules, but the reader is an Elisp reader.
<str1ngs>rekado: would something like (version) work?
<pkill9>bricewge: does your init.scm cause zombie processes? or does shepherd do that normally?
<rekado>str1ngs: you can do (funcall (@ (guile) version))
<rekado>you could also define an Elisp macro that evaluates Scheme code.
<bricewge>pkill9: I thought it was a sheperd thing
<bricewge>It may come from my config tough...
<str1ngs>rekado: ahh this is useful. do you have a link to example doing this somewhere?
<rekado>str1ngs: an implementation of such a macro? No.
<rekado>str1ngs: but you can play with this in a REPL.
<str1ngs>rekado: I'll take note of this (funcall (@ (guile) version)) thanks
<leoprikler>interesting, I just saw that emacs started through gnome zombies
<bricewge>pkill9: Searching a bit, the ML contains some results about zombies with shepherd.
<anadon1>Anyone take a look at 0install? It looks like a less rigerous guix, but has greater multiplatform support.
<bricewge>pkill9: If a remember well a service manager should cleanup zombies process by itself, but it looks like shepherd is missing this trick
<leoprikler>"[0install] defines an XML metadata format [...]" And I've stopped reading.
<anadon1>leoprikler: while impure, merging efforts could still be worth while.
<anadon1>Hold on here, I need to restart pidgin.
<leoprikler>You mean something along the lines of `guix import ugly-xml`?
<rekado>we can read XML easily with (sxml simple)
<anadon>leoprikler: OK, what was that?
<rekado>so … sounds like an easy importer.
<leoprikler>Just as rekado says, I'd suggest an sxml-based importer
<PotentialUser-71>hi all
<PotentialUser-71>There is a distcc alternative inside the guix repo?
<anadon>Reading of 0install docs, they have mailing list entries from 2018 referencing guix, but their official documentation only references a dated nix. Reading that, I don't see a significant justification of using 0install over nix. Since their development has been pitted in a nessicarily loosing battle and they haven't migrated, I'd bet that they just have an attachment or outstanding contracts to support 0install. Still, maybe someone sho
<anadon>uld head over and offer an olive branch?
<leoprikler>PotentialUser-71: Perhaps you're thinking about `guix offload`?
<PotentialUser-71>leoprikler: well, thanks
<mbakke>octave on core-updates fails to build with missing references to symbols. I suspect it is because it picks gfortran's, which references a that does not exist. I don't understand why this issue shows up now, though.
<mbakke>wait, gfortran does have, hmm
<efraim>Would changing the order of inputs help?
<efraim>Didn't we recently get a gfortran-toolchain package or something?
<mbakke>efraim: the -toolchain packages are generally not useful in package definitions, as a full toolchain is already available
<mbakke>changing the order could work, though; thanks for the tip
<lfam>efraim: About the rust crates, what stage of work would you be able to help with? I've imported a fresh batch on master but haven't started removing duplicates and handling upgrades, or cleaning up the UI bits
<mbakke>core-updates is live on Berlin: \o/
<janneke>mbakke: \o/
<dhanvanthri>Hey guys, is there another package like tp-smapi that I should install? Why is tp-smapi not in the default repo, It's needed for basically all librebooted computers
<dhanvanthri>I would take it upon myself to maintain this package if someone can give me a little guidance to get me started
<lfam>Nice work mbakke
<efraim>lfam: honestly if it's mostly sorted alphabetically I'd be willing to manually slot them in and commit it to a WIP branch to start the cleanup and review/testing
<lfam>efraim: I can sort them alphabetically but the actually need to be sorted by alphabet, but reversed by number, due to how package inheritance works :/
<lfam>I mean... why are we sorting source code alphabetically? What is the reason for that?
<mbakke>everyone, please try upgrading your profiles and manifests and file bug reports for things that do not work :-)
<mbakke>octave is the only failing package I know of, but there are undoubtedly many more
<pkill9>what is new in core-updates?
<efraim>lfam: it was to try to make it easier to find duplicate packages
<lfam>When building, Guile warns about shadowed packages
<lfam>Well I'll see about getting them sorted to the point where it still builds and re-pushing the WIP branch and letting you know. Maybe we can split up the alphabest
<efraim>I was thinking of grabbing some of the rand and other math packages for their own module
<str1ngs>rekado: where you thinking of reviving emacs guile?
<apteryx>raghavgururajan: sorry I think the rename from mediastreamer to mediastreamer2 might be unwanted after all; I just realized their source tarball is named 'mediastreamer'. Their doc speaks of 'mediastreamer2'... But maybe it's OK to stick to 'mediastreamer'.
<sneek>Welcome back apteryx, you have 2 messages!
<sneek>apteryx, raghavgururajan says: 1) The last gsm patch broke the package. xD. Nothing gets installed in output folders bin, include, lib and share. I fixed the issue by sending new patch (#40445).
<sneek>apteryx, raghavgururajan says: 2) Also, mediastreamer did not technically build with SRTP. I saw "MS will be built without SRTP support" during the build. I fixed the issue by using another patch, which I included in the new revision patch (11-add-mediastreamer-v3).
<efraim>we're at about 870 pacakges in crates-io.scm, I was hoping we were nearing full enough :/
<lfam>efraim: Okay... it's a few hours of work to re-sort everything to the point where Guix still builds, so I'd rather not do that work if we are just gonna move stuff into other modules
<str1ngs>efraim: it's a BIG crate :)
<lfam>Unless someone has a tool that can sort packages in the special way we need, alphabet in order and numerically reversed
<lfam>The other thing is there is so much work in this area in Guix that WIP work becomes invalid pretty quickly... we need to act fast to have a commit that works
<lfam>I'm worried about the maintainability of Rust in Guix
<lfam>There is a lot of extra busywork like sorting that can't really be done in the timeframe required. Maybe we should stop using package inheritance
<lfam>It causes a lot of problems just to save a few lines of code
<efraim>I wouldn't be against removing inheritance
<lfam>It always becomes a tricky maintenance burden a few months later
<efraim>Or swapping everything around so automatic sorting works nicely
<lfam>Martin has a nice sorting script but it doesn't work with inheritance
<efraim>'grep define-public | sort' and re-order
<lfam>He also wrote a "commit each package one at a time" script but it doesn't work yet
<efraim>I think we're giving up on one-at-a-time for the crates
<lfam>Yes, I gave up on that
<efraim>'rust-foo and dependants', but still nice guixy packages
<lfam>I'm still trying to make them pretty, pass lint, and be sorted, but even that is turning out to be pretty hard
<lfam>I'm rebasing my branch on master and will push a new wip-rav1e branch shortly
<efraim>OK. I'll try to take a look soon
<lfam>Let's coordinate with what we are doing by using sneek or sending emails through guix-devel
<efraim>Sounds good
<lfam>The branch will have some "extra commits" like building FFmpeg from Git to test rav1e and a WIP version of the crate importer but we can remove those commits at the end
<mbakke>pkill9: there is a summary here:
<anadon>How are larger PR's considered? I was thinking about upgrading the django.scm block today.
<apteryx>raghavgururajan: eh. That'll teach me for thinking solving problems at 1 am ;-)
<lfam>Pushed, efraim
<str1ngs>apteryx: that happened to me the other day. I ended up reverting everything when I woke in the morning lol
<mbakke>octave's does have GCC's in dependency_libs, which is good
<rekado>str1ngs: yes, I’m working on Guile Emacs
<rekado>but that’s not the legacy software I was referring to earlier.
<rekado>I’m currently implementing commenting for mumi /
<rekado>(new mumi features are new legacy software :))
<str1ngs>rekado: Guile Emacs would be interesting project I think.
<roptat>not sure what the patching strategy should be... I want to move some packages to maven-bootstrap.scm, while changing them so that they use install-from-pom as their install phase
<roptat>how many patches is that, and in what steps?
<roptat>should I have one patch per package, moving them one by one and changing them at the same time, in a separate patch, or should I move everything at once, then patch them in individual files, or move everything at once, and patch them all in one patch?
<apteryx>str1ngs: haha!
<apteryx>debbugs is slow today
<apteryx>or maybe just my internet
<apteryx>raghavgururajan: I've pushed a follow-up commit. I hope I got it right this time.
<mbakke>roptat: moving everything in one commit, and patching all in the next commit sounds good to me
<roptat>mbakke, ok, there will be a few more commits, because I need a few more packages, but I'll do that, thank you :)
<roptat>that will also reduce the number of patches :D
<mbakke>so octave has a configure flag "--enable-link-all-dependencies" which pulls in the correct .la files and makes the build succeed
<mbakke>with no discernible size difference (~70 MiB smaller due to the util-linux, gtk+ and llvm size fixes)
<roptat>70 MB sounds like python3 :)
<atw`>people who update packages: how do you stay on top of releases?
<roptat>I don't :/
<roptat>but guix refresh helps when I have enough courage to update the ocaml stack
<vagrantc>"guix refresh" has some features to check for new upstream version with specific importers ... i've often wondered if that couldn't be generalized to at least have a hook in a package description to check for new versions
<vagrantc>er, package definition
<roptat>I tried guix refresh --list-updaters
<roptat>it ends with a backtrace :/
<roptat>but the github updater might be useful
<roptat>since so many packages are on github
<roptat>for those on github, you can also "watch" the repository in "release only" mode, so you get notified when there is a new version. There is also a hidden atom feed
<vagrantc>for uri-fetch ... you could usually just use the (source (origin (uri ... and update the version ... a simple checker that looked for similar tarball names with different version parts substituted would be quite doable (in debian, there's uscan for this sort of functionality, which has a regex to match versions)
<vagrantc>sometimes it's more complicated, but often it's just a bunch of tarballs in a directory
<rekado>for R I’m subscribed to the announce mailing list; for R packages I run the updater about once a week.
<rekado>everything else I do when I feel embarrassed.
<atw`>Is it felt that updates are not timely for some packages? A very generic way of knowing that updates are available would be nice, but I think we should also ask if we need it
*vagrantc just periodically obsesses and then periodically forgets
<vagrantc>also maintain some of the same packages in debian, which has infrastructure to nudge about updates
<atw`>and I ask the question purely academically. Personally I don't have any times in mind when I felt updates were not timely
<jonsger>roptat: congrats and respect on your maven progress :)
<roptat>thanks :)
<str1ngs>janneke: I'm not sure what to do about emacsy logging. it's spammy and not configurable. I wonder if I can just port it guile-library's (logging logger). WDYT?
<atw`>does guix download support downloading a git-reference and checking out a particular commit?
<Parra>can I specify different properties in a package depending on the architecture, or should I create a different package for each architecture?
<rekado>Parra: in the arguments field you can.
<rekado>do you need the properties field?
<Parra>I don't know what is the properties field
<Parra>basically I have different urls of the zipped code depending on the architecture
<Parra>not sure how should I handle that
<guix-vits>atw`: idk. do you know how to do that 'by hand'(y/n)?
<rekado>Parra: you wrote “different properties”, so I wasn’t sure if you mean the “properties” field of the “package” record. (It’s rarely used, e.g. for recording the upstream package name or to hide the package from the command line.)
<rekado>for different source origins I think it’s complicated because the “source” field is not thunked
<Parra>I see, I didn't refer to that, I just want to know how to handle that case
<Parra>and what about this, I can make a package per architecture, then a final package which adds a dependency dynamically depending on the current architecture
<rekado>Parra: I think what we did in some cases was to add these different source archives to native inputs and then to unpack the right one in a build phase.
<rekado>I can’t think of an example, but I’m pretty sure it’s done in one or two packages.
<Parra>I see
<Parra>it would be nice to see how other packages handle crossplatform details, not this in special but others, do you know any which can be built in multiple architectures?
<janneke>str1ngs: is that worth the effort, can't we just remove all logging?
<drakonis>Parra: the only two platforms guix current targets is linux and hurd
<drakonis>so there's not a lot of examples
<drakonis>plus the platforms it can run on depend on what guile can run
<drakonis>on where guile can run
<drakonis>and its basically just linux?
<drakonis>(and hurd)
<drakonis>also the bsds i guess?
<Parra>I'm not talking about the platform now, I'm talking about architectures
<anadon>dangling link from google when searching "guix upgrade" :
<drakonis>oh, i see.
<Parra>I should have said "cross-compiling"
<drakonis>okay, so that'd be x86 and arm?
<drakonis>there isnt exactly a lot of room here
<drakonis>unless of course you'd actually want to cross compile packages to languages that guix cannot exist in
<noobly>I'm having a crippling problem with dhclient (I think), it's like I have to run dhclient every two minutes. it makes downloading packages a real pain, any help
<Blackbeard>noobly: what is happening and what do you expect to happen?
<guix-vits>noobly: try network manager || `ps -e |grep dhcl` -- maybe there is more than one instance?
<guix-vits>Hi Blackbeard.
<Blackbeard>guix-vits: hey!
<mfg>hi guix :D
<mfg>Why doesn't the second define not remove the gdm-service?
*guix-vits afk; o/
<efraim>lfam: I got them sorted in alphabetically and removed duplicates. once 'make' passes I'll push it
<guix-vits>mfg: in the worst case (with obvious disadvantages) you can just copy the definition of the %desktop-services in your sys.config and edit them directly (but keep an eye on updates, he-he).
<mfg>guix-vits: that's what i currently use, but i wanted to improve a bit :D
<NieDzejkob>How do I reproduce "xmodmap -e 'keycode 62='" in the keyboard-layout record I pass to operating-system?
<noobly>guix-vits: i rebooted to get a clean slate, and after about ten minutes the wifi stopped cold turkey. ping and ping both fail. ps e | grep dhc only returns one process
<noobly>apologies in advance if i'm overlooking something basic. FWIW, i start my wifi with sudo ./wifi, where wifi is `sudo ip link set wls3 up`, `sudo su -c "wpa_supplicant -B -i wls3 -c<(wpa_passphrase "network-name" "password")"`, `sudo dhclient`
<rekado>noobly: on poor connections nscd may be too eager to cache failures.
<rekado>you can try invalidating the nscd cache.
<rekado>sudo herd invalidate nscd
<anadon>Is there a policy for removing packages? The very old verision of django has a python2 variant that is no longer maintained upstream.
<noobly>rekado: thanks, I've since run that command. hopefully this conenction stays up now
<noobly>rekado: the connection is indeed very poor, btw
<noobly>unforunately the connection was lost again. i rebooted, so should i be running `invalidate nscd` before `dhclient wls3`?, or after?
<FennecCode>If I wanted to run Zoom securely in some sort of box, should I do that in a container or a VM?
<leoprikler>VM or pure container, but you'll never be 100% secure on x86.
<FennecCode>Why is that specifically? And what ultimately is the difference between a VM and a pure container? Also, what makes a container "pure"?
<FennecCode>Sorry, I don't mean to barrage questions. 😅 I'm just excited to learn about this and not really sure what to ask.
<leoprikler>x86 has hardware flaws, that enable side channel exfiltration of information. E.g. if you have some process running in VM1 and some AES in VM2, VM1 can (through some magic) get to the key used in VM2.
<mfg>Hm so the error was to use '(service-types...) instead of (list service-types...) what is the difference between those two?
<leoprikler>A VM emulates hardware, etc. a container is a bit more lightweight.
<leoprikler>Forgive me about the pure thing, that was my confusion with pure environments, which also work similar to containers.
<FennecCode>Ohhh~ Right. Through Spectre/Meltdown and such? In that sense, there wouldn't be any possible way to have true isolation so long as it's the same physical machine.
<civodul>grr spent hours debugging gnome shell's keyboard layout handling just to notice i had asked for an invalid keyboard layout
<FennecCode>civodul: Ouch. Sorry about that 😕
<atw`>ooh somebody packaged emacs-form-feed. I was gonna highlight that as a "good for beginners" contibution
<leoprikler>You can containerize to protect yourself from inadvertent changes, e.g. service A and B both want to store information in the same file – you make one file for each and don't tell them about each other.
<Blackbeard>civodul: damn :/
<FennecCode>So they each get their own perspective of the filesystem, kinda like Plan 9 does? Is separate file access the only thing a container does?
<leoprikler>tbh I'm not 100% sure on how much a container does, but you get FS/process isolation at least
<FennecCode>Ah, ok. So they can't see other processes as well. I'll see if I can look into that more. 🙂
<FennecCode>Thank you 😊
<leoprikler>containers are also a crude way of getting reproducible builds on distros without functional package managers, so that's that
<FennecCode>I keep reading about more and more security vulnerabilities that pop up for Zoom, and I'm thinking today is the day I finally install GuixSD on my desktop. Having a little more easy access to insulation is sounding really nice right now.
<ngz>hmmm I cannot compile a recent checkout of Guix : error: failed to load 'gnu/tests/docker.scm'. Am I alone?
<FennecCode>That, too. 🙂 It sounds nice for essentially a more comprehensive, language agnostic form of pyenv
<civodul>bavier: i think we should shorten the file names of patches for xplanet ('guix lint' should complain)
<civodul>can you take a look?
<rekado>atw`: I think it would be good to send a few bugs for package requests that are tagged “wishlist” and “easy”
<civodul>ngz: perhaps an ABI issue? like try "rm gnu/tests/docker.go"
<ngz>civodul: Possibly. I ran make clean-go, and building again. Let's see.
<ngz>civodul: (thank you for the answer, btw)
<Parra>drakonis: yeah, like x64 arm.. etc
<vagrantc>probably about time i attempt to build a new guix tarball snapshot for debian and submit typo fixes
<Parra>I want to see some package that supports cross compiling, a C/C++ package
<vagrantc>arm-trusted-firmware packages, linux-libre packages, u-boot packages ... all should support cross-compiling
<Parra>and another question, is it possible to run guix pull for one channel only?
<Parra>instead of guix channel, running a pull for another channel, let's call it, helloworld
<Parra>"--channels file" will do the trick?
<Parra>I'm gonna try it
<mbakke>hmm, at least one of berlins build nodes is not using --no-substitutes ... perhaps it is missing from the deploy script?
<leoprikler>Parra: the closest to that would be fixing channels to specific commits.
<leoprikler>if you delete them completely, you'll not have their packages
<rekado>mbakke: oh, that’s not good
<rekado>do you know which of them?
<Parra>I don't understand, I mean I only want to update some specific channels, not all of them
<rekado>it’s possible that this is one of the newly installed nodes that used substitutes during installation.
<Parra>it seems --channels does not work
<mbakke>rekado: unfortunately I only saw it in a build log (updating substitutes from ...)
<mbakke>will try to keep an eye out on the interactive builds
<rekado>I can check this tomorrow.
<mbakke>rekado: great, thanks
<civodul>mbakke: OTOH, if it's not using substitutes, it's getting them from berlin anyway
<civodul>so it doesn't make a difference
<mbakke>yes, not a big deal for the berlin build farm
<mbakke>one difference is that we won't know if an upstream repository is unavailable, as it would fall back to downloading a substituted source
<civodul>ah yes
<civodul>hmm actually no, because "guix offload" sends it the source
<Parra>in theory a pull after another pull should run fast, right?
<civodul>"guix offload" sends all the prerequisites
<noobly>any tips on where else to look since sudo herd invalidate nscd didn't do the trick?
<civodul>Parra: ~1mn
<civodul>noobly: try "herd restart nscd", but that seems weird
<noobly>civodul: ok, thanks, I'll try that after it fails again in a few minutes
<mbakke>civodul: git-fetch and similar runs on the remote node I think?
<civodul>i forgot, depends on whether #:local-build? is true
<dongcarl>So there's a reproducibility bug for gcc, which is present in all released versions right now... It is because the `` was bootstrapped with libtool 2.2.7a, which didn't sort `find` output...
<dongcarl>I'm wondering what's the best approach here... Making a separate patch for each gcc version doesn't seem right to me...
<dongcarl>I suppose we could rebootstrap?
*dongcarl is sorry for the interjection
<mbakke>dongcarl: that sounds like it should work, but poses some bootstrapping problems
<dongcarl>mbakke: I suppose we can also do a regex find and replace?
<mbakke>should be safe for the "final" gcc's at least
<mbakke>dongcarl: good idea
<mbakke>dongcarl: can you file a bug about it?
<dongcarl>mbakke: since most of the released versions are bootstrapped with libtool 2.2.7a... we can probably use a somewhat strict regex find and replace
<dongcarl>Also, I'm stupid about closing bugs... How does one do that?
<mbakke>dongcarl: send an email to
<dongcarl>mbakke: Oh, like any email?
<mbakke>dongcarl: indeed
<dongcarl>gotchu, thanks!
<Parra>civodul: thanks
<mbakke>python2-pytest segfaults on i686 when running the jinja2 test suite
<Parra>civodul: I don't know why but mine takes like 40min
<Parra>maybe it's because I'm running a gc after pulling
<civodul>Parra: did it build things locally?
<civodul>it all depends on whether things have been pushed and have already been built or not
<Parra>I have no idea, it doesn't show info
<civodul>it prints "downloading ..." or "building ..."
<civodul>with a progress bar, etc.
<Parra>Updating channel guix
<Parra>and that's it
<noobly>civodul: restarting nscd has also failed. I run dhclient with -v -d flags, and it looks like it's only ever renewing the lease once. it says 'bound to $my-IP -- renewal in 42515 seconds, but long before that time comes it says 'recieve_packet failed on wls3: network is down' (it's not, just a poor connection)
<civodul>noobly: i don't know, you can also just turn off nscd
<civodul>"herd stop nscd"
<civodul>Parra: that part does a 'git clone', roughly (or 'git pull')
<civodul>if you're on a slow network, the initial clone takes time
<Parra>I see
<Parra>it's strange
<civodul>but really you should paste the command and its output if we want to make sure we're talking about the same thing :-)
<Parra>ok, I will wait it to finish
<Parra>and share it with pastebin or something
<raghavgururajan>>‎apteryx‎: raghavgururajan: sorry I think the rename from mediastreamer to mediastreamer2 might be unwanted after all; I just realized their source tarball is named 'mediastreamer'. Their doc speaks of 'mediastreamer2'... But maybe it's OK to stick to 'mediastreamer'.
<raghavgururajan>I think MS2 is fine as they will be changing the changing the name of release to MS2 soon.
<sneek>Got it.
<raghavgururajan>>‎apteryx‎: raghavgururajan: eh. That'll teach me for thinking solving problems at 1 am ;-)
<raghavgururajan>Haha! It happens. xD
<mfg>is it possible to remove simple-services from %desktop-services or is it easier to just redefine it?
<mbakke>mfg: there is an example in the manual for how to remove gdm-service-type from %desktop-services
<mfg>yes but i was thinking about something like: (simple-service 'network-manager-applet
<mfg> profile-service-type
<mfg> (list network-manager-applet))
<noobly>well, if any of this looks familiar to anyone please let me know!, it looks like NetworkManager is doing something wonky
<mfg>because this has no distinct service-type or what is it?
<atw`>rekado: I have some ideas for contributions that should be easy. Focus would be familiarity with basic packaging, but also familiarity with git send-email, debbugs, and other stuff that I struggled/struggle with :)