<NieDzejkob>hmm, I'm getting this error when running alsamixer: ALSA lib dlmisc.c:285:(snd_dlobj_cache_get0) Cannot open shared library /gnu/store/f9ywcwdyg39hhjjcf88br8h0f7hspxwa-alsa-plugins-1.1.9-pulseaudio/lib/alsa-lib/libasound_module_ctl_pulse.so ((null): /gnu/store/f9ywcwdyg39hhjjcf88br8h0f7hspxwa-alsa-plugins-1.1.9-pulseaudio/lib/alsa-lib/libasound_module_ctl_pulse.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory)
<drakonis>"If you want to run PipeWire without installing it on your system, there is a script that you can run. This puts you in an environment in which PipeWire can be run from the build directory, and ALSA, PulseAudio and JACK applications will use the PipeWire emulation libraries automatically in this environment."
<vagrantc>yeah, i thought i recalled something like that
<str1ngs>efraim: question. I'm just about to post a patch for python-pyqtwebengine and an upgraded qutebrowser with qtwebengine supp port. can python-pyqtwebengine go in qt.scm or is should it go in a python module instead?
<efraim>qt.scm is probably a good choice. Assuming no issues it's probably better than python-web.scm
<str1ngs>efraim: I thought so too. thanks for the feedback
<str1ngs>efraim: also I did not create a qutebrowser-qtwebengine. which was my initial thought. becuase qtwekit is not recommened even by the author of qutebrowser. so I think it's better to just upgrade qutebrowser and have it use qtwebengine. I'm just worried about the impact for existing qutebrowser users. WDYT?
<efraim>I'd go ahead and change it to qtwebengine. We don't want out of date web browsers
<g_bor[m]>in the report there is a simple gexp that triggers it.
<civodul>so it happens outside of the installer too?
<civodul>i mean, without the relatively complex setup you described?
<str1ngs>g_bor[m] hello, I have recently been working on making UI in nomad generic. currently it supports GTK but I've started to con cider ncurses as well. it's possible with your ideas here we could potentially create a graphical installer as well.
<g_bor[m]>nckx had the idea to see if guix build guix triggers it.
<deploy-user>Heya, I'm trying to build a guix deploy proof of concept for Hetzner VPS, but am stumbling at what seems the last hurdle: Initial "infection" works well, but when running the guix deploy command GSSH errors out because the SSH session is already closed when guix deploy tries to remote eval against it. Anyone run into something similar?
<civodul>hi deploy-user, i haven't experience anything like that
<civodul>would be good to see if it's the server that closed the SSH session prematurely, and why, or if it's a bug on the client side
<deploy-user>SSH asked me to confirm the fingerprint, then guix describe ran ok (though emitted an error because it's still a 1.0.1 version of guix pull). I'm pulling to a later version now, just in case.
<NieDzejkob>lxsameer: It's not acceptable to download binaries in any way. I would create a separate package for this specific jdk. It's probably easy enough to do so with (inherit normal-jdk-package)
<lxsameer>NieDzejkob: so compile a jvm from source to compile another jvm from source ?
<mjw>civodul, will there be some session on guix (sub)packages, inputs, outputs, etc. goals at Guix Days. I like to get a better feeling for what the project as a whole expects. When updating elfutils I was proud that it comes with lots on new features, including a http client/server. But obviously one maintainers cool new feature is another packagers bloat nightmare :)
<mjw>Also are people working on more consistent debug outputs? I am crying a little trying to debug anything on guix...
<civodul>mjw: for the Guix Days, most topics will be proposed by participants as we go, so why not!
<civodul>re debugging output, what kind of debugging are you referring to?
<lxsameer>hey folks, i have a package which is written is python but doesn't follow the python packaging conventions (no setup.py and it's no on pypi) it only requires a certain python version and to install it it should be on the path
<lxsameer>what should i use as the build-system for such a package ?
<mjw>civodul, just that there is no debug for anything (well, almost anything).
<mjw>civodul, well, it simply means if I run a debugger, tracer of profiler against anything build for or against libraries in guix I basically get not very far. I basically have to rebuild the world by hand. And that obviously doesn't help if the bug seems to be in the packaged binary, but not the one I build by hand...
<civodul>mjw: oh you're talking about debug info of Guix *packages*
<mjw>civodul, and it seems that because of reproducibility of builds this should be an easier thing for guix than for any other distro. Someone must have thought about this issue before. Is it just not enough CI/disk resources?
<civodul>i thought you were talking about debugging traces for Guix itself
<mjw>well, how to debug guile programs is also something I would like to learn
*mjw being a guile noob means he gets obscure backtraces all the time that seem like they make my issue even worse :)
<mjw>civodul, yes. I was wondering if that means this is a solved problem already, just needs some extra resources and then it all just works (tm)
<mjw>and how come you can do anything without build-ids
<mjw>I understand things are better/easier because the store in immutable, so you won't have the issue other distros have that running programs/libraries can disappear from disk. But not having core dumps with build-ids do seem to make things somewhat more difficult unless you are examining them on the actual running system themselves.
<mjw>So having to teach each and every tool to use ~/.guix-profile/lib/debug seems less than ideal. Especially if you are debugging something that was running in a different profile.
<mjw>But then, that might just me still being confused about environments and profiles
*mjw might just show up at Guix Days and propose to talk all this through. I am just afraid I still don't have the right (guix) frame of mind to fully understand these issues.
<civodul>mjw: separate debug info is used in most distros, i don't think Guix is doing something very different here
<civodul>that said, it'd be great to have a talk/workshop by you on these topics, with a toolchain developer's viewpoint!
<civodul>i'm sure there's room for improvement in these areas
<NieDzejkob>lxsameer: everything on guix is built from source, tracing back to a few megabytes of root binaries. So if you need OpenJDK foo.bar to compile BazJVM, then you need to compile OpenJDK foo.bar from source
<NieDzejkob>lxsameer: re: python, I'd use trivial-build-system
<civodul>raghav-gururajan: could you make sure gnome-initial-setup and other packages you contributed really are "GPLv2-only"? they're very likely "GPLv2-or-later", so their 'license' field would need to be adjusted
<mjw>civodul, I think there is actually great improvement possible, because of the reproducible guix deploy, it should be possible to do almost transparent "remote" debugging (where your debugging tools run outside your vm, container, remote system, etc. or examining a core file captured somewhere else).
<civodul>mjw: oh right, sounds like there are opportunities for fun stuff :-)
<civodul>note that currently GDB isn't quite happy when debugging a process that lives in a separate namespace
<mjw>BTW. I was pretty impressed with how seamless qemu-binfmt-service-type works with guix build.
<mjw>And some of the ptrace trickery I tried doesn't work. I should look into that. Because I think it can be made to work.
<efraim>interesting thought: even if we could drop firstname.lastname@example.org (the rust version) in for email@example.com it would tie up many rust crates at their current versions and they couldn't be upgraded except in core-updates
<nckx>NieDzejkob: Or better: define ’stale’. There's potentially lots of precious admin-written data in /etc.
<alextee[m]>i guess i should do guix pull and then wait a few days before doing guix upgrade to let the new stuff build
<NieDzejkob>I've just hit a really nasty bug: When I first installed guix, I used %desktop-services, but later decided to use %base-services and build on top of that. I didn't need alsa-service-type to make sound work, so I didn't add it. Turns out that /etc/asound.conf exists pretty much by accident.
<NieDzejkob>this became a problem because alsa-service-type writes paths to /gnu/store into the config
<NieDzejkob>and when a dep of alsa-plugins got updated and I ran guix gc, the path stopped existing, which created a hard-to-debug error when running alsamixer
<nckx>alextee[m]: You can also use ‘guix pull --commit=<a commit you like, or returned good ‘guix weather’ results>’ for the same effect without actually waiting yourself.
<jayspeer>How can I rename program provided by package? It seemed to work previously but now packages are named are set to default. here's package definition: https://paste.debian.net/1125841/ - I want terraform to be named terraform_0.11.7, but it is named terraform instead
<NieDzejkob>the NAME field of a PACKAGE is the name of the package, i. e. what you use to refer to the package in, say, `guix install'
<potential-alex>Heya, I'm trying to deploy the mysql service, but the mariadb package used by the service instantiation is missing some required files. These seem to no longer be located in the mariadb package but in the mariadb:lib output. How can I tell mysql service about this?
<potential-alex>Or, more generally, how do I specify output variants in system configuration files?
<civodul>roptat: ↑ does the above ring a bell? :-)
<roptat>The fix should be easy, but I can't do that before another 6 hours or so
<roptat>We woull need one more option to specify the output that contains the sql file, and use it in the service definition
<roptat>Thanksfully, no need to revert the mariadb split
<potential-alex>roptat: if I understand correctly, add an extra argument to the mysql service which feeds it the lib output and get the files from there?
<roptat>Actually, tge issue is already in a mariadb specific part of the config
<roptat>So maybe simply replace one #$mysql with a #$mysql:lib would work, where it's using the sql files
<roptat>At least if they are indeed in theqlib output
<roptat>They might be in dev actually, but I don't have a system with guix atm, can you check?
<vertigo_38>Hi guix! Does anyone know if/how and Atheros AR9271 USB Wifi dongle can influence a gnome session? Since I plugged it in (worked instantly), I every now and then get a 'system freeze'. What I mean by that is that the gnome session seems to run properly, but I can't access it with mouse and keyboard anymore. The mouse pointer moves, but clicking is no longer possible and switching to another tty doesn't work. It's not going instantly,
<vertigo_38>instead it's kind of fading away -- first my wireless keyboard quits reacting, then also the laptop's built in one... Any ideas?
<NieDzejkob>anything interesting in dmesg or /var/log/messages when a freeze happens?
<nckx>vertigo_38: Do you have to hard-reboot your system or does it still respond to, say, a normal power button press?
<vertigo_38>NieDzejkob: just checking /var/log/messages -- dmesg doesn't really help, as I have to hard-reboot, once this happens...
<vertigo_38>nckx: well, it's a hard reboot, once this happens...
<nckx>vertigo_38: If there's nothing in /var/log/messages you could try the SysRq + REISUB trick to flush as much as possible to storage when this happens again.
<nckx>On laptops this is usually: <hold Alt> <Press and releas Print Screen> <Press and release the letter key> <Release Alt>. You can try SysRq+Space while dmesg --tail is running now to see if that works on your system.
<nckx><hold Alt> <Press and release Print Screen> <Press and release R,E,I,S,U,B in order> <Release Alt> even.
<nckx>vertigo_38: Pstore is a mechanism for saving kernel backtraces to the system firmware, even when the kernel panics (impossible to save to disc). If you're interested in setting it up it might help debug the next crash.
<nckx>It should be as simple as ‘modprobe efi_pstore’ and making sure that /sys/module/pstore/parameters/backend = ‘efi’ and /sys/module/efi_pstore/parameters/pstore_disable = ‘N’.
<nckx>But you have to do or script this to run at every boot.
<nckx>alextee[m]: And there's a simple fix for that 😉
<alextee[m]>nckx: it sounds complicated to build but i'll try lol
<nckx>alextee[m]: I wasn't planning on doing it when I wrote it, but guess what I'm doing now.
<potential-alex>roptat: yes we can, but the configuration only has a slot for one mysql package — so adding both would require adding a second slot to `mysql-configuration` (as you previously suggested right?)
<roptat>Yes, but then I found that there was only one place that is specific to mariadb where this is needed
<potential-alex>roptat: or can you reference all outputs attached to a single package using #$ syntax, even if only one of the outputs is specified? (sorry my knowledge of outputs is limited!)
<roptat>So we can simply use the output, without specifying it in the config
<roptat>I think what you specify is a package object, so you could specify any output with #$
<roptat>Of course I'd need to check that, and if it's not ppssible, then adding a configuration option is fine
<potential-alex>roptat: I see. I think it is indeed possible. I'll confirm in a second, but if so, then as you say, the patch should be trivial: just add :lib to the #$mysql dereference at line 527
<peanutbutterandc>nckx, I see. Sorry I was a little nervous about my first contribution. I hope it is normal that there hasn't been any reviews so far, with all the patches the maintainers have to go through
<efraim>NieDzejkob: I wasn't actually planning on sending them on to Guix, but I do have (some of them) packaged in my personal channel
<efraim>on the other hand, we do have a toys.scm for some fun packages
<peanutbutterandc>While we are talking about packages: I understand that there must be something about mozilla regarding firefox not being in gnu distribution but gnu icecat. However, I can't seem to find any gnuzilla version of thunderbird anywhere (not just in guix gnu distribution)... is there something that I am missing or is it just that nobody has gotten around to packaging it yet?
<terpri_>peanutbutterandc, debian had an icedove fork, which is no longer maintained
<peanutbutterandc>Another question: Say a drive-by contributor packages and contributes thunderbird. Are the maintainers now burdened with the responsibility of keeping the package updated?
<peanutbutterandc>terpri_, Debian 10 has firefox again. Does that mean guix can also have firefox? Is the trademark-related issue all resolved?
<nckx>peanutbutterandc: s/maintainers/contributors/ for clarity but yeah, pretty much. If nobody steps up to keep it working with updated dependencies or patch CVEs, then it will likely be removed again, no matter how many users it has.
<nckx>Updates are less important as long as the package works.
<peanutbutterandc>str1ngs, Oh I meant that instead of directly going and filing a bug report, would just discussing the matter with the packager in question beforehand here would be acceptable
<nckx>peanutbutterandc: If you actually have a question for them, I think that's fine.
<str1ngs>peanutbutterandc: if there is a bug, it's good to report it yes.
<nckx>peanutbutterandc: Social commons sense applies. Does it matter *who* wrote the bug? If not, why blame.
<peanutbutterandc>nckx, str1ngs - I see. That makes sense. I'm sorry I'm a n00b. Still learning.
<terpri_>peanutbutterandc, guix could have firefox now, IIUC, but prefers to distribute icecat with minor customizations (librejs, hard-to-access extensions store, etc.)
<peanutbutterandc>I have run into issues with the TuxGuitar package. It does not produce any sound. And a quick comparison to flatpak-installed (working-correctly) version shows that guix-supplied tuxguitar is missing a MIDI port, and a few installed-by-default plugins.
<peanutbutterandc>But it is possible that there is some other way of getting the sound to work - by installing another MIDI server, possibly, and setting the associated ports
<peanutbutterandc>So if there's anyone here who has been able to use guix-installed tuxguitar and could guide me, I'd be very grateful
<peanutbutterandc>terpri_, I see... hard-to-access extensions store for security I presume
<nckx>peanutbutterandc: It's good that you're thinking about this but you might be over-thinking. I quite often pop into #guix to ask nick: hi, why did you x? or (more often) could you take a look a y it breaks z? I've never intended it as public blaming or shaming, quite the opposite. I'm quite shy & actually prefer a quick IRC poke when I screw up, so I can push a quick fix myself, rather than A PUBLIC BUG discussion on THE WEB. 😮 This is probably personal
<peanutbutterandc>nckx, I was initially going to ask something like "hey can you install it and see if the same error exists for you too" but then realized that defeats the whole purpose of guix's way of package management - reproducible builds and all. So I am suspecting if I might not have the necessary MIDI Server. But then again, perhaps that should be an (propagated) input of the package?
<nckx>peanutbutterandc: Unix is fundamentally designed around environments and state, Guix only fixes a tiny portion of that. To compound that I run TuxGuitar from ‘guix pack’ so it's absolutely possible that my environment masks a bug with the package.
<vertigo_38>nckx: I checked '/var/log/messages' pretty thoroughly now and start thinking that the Wifi-dongle isn't the guilty one. It seems to be a GPU-hang (i915/DRM) that sometimes appears since a kernel upgrade. Funny enough it rolled in at pretty same time, as I first used the dongle. Setting up libdrm and xf86-video-intel right now, maybe this makes things better ;)
<terpri_>and mozilla's interest in tor integration shows that they're willing to consider "special editions" like that
<peanutbutterandc>terpri_, You make me want to install icecat via guix. (And also re-ignite the fire to read up about libreboot, Intel ME, HURD -- all of which I want to get to the point of doing someday, eventually. :) ]
<nckx>peanutbutterandc: Guix still needs to be ported to power and there have been a few bugs holding that back. But once that's done the vast majority of Guix packages should just work.
<terpri_>peanutbutterandc, yes, guix has full cross-compilation support. something like guix build hello --target=powerpc64-linux-gnu
<nckx>We've been given access to a power machine but so far ‘we’ is just ‘me’, I still need to add interested parties.
<nckx>terpri_: Yes, but there are IIRC some bugs preventing that from actually working.
<peanutbutterandc>nckx, Wow. That is so very cool. Does that mean that, vast majority of linux-software would also work on hurd just so, too? Also, does it mean that if guix were ported to bsd and friends, it would become the one true universal package manager?
<str1ngs>peanutbutterandc: btw I'm current look at issues with jack and fluidsynth. I will look at the tuxguitar issue as well
<terpri_>nckx, are there channels or lists where that work in ongoing? i have a talos box and would like to run guix on it :)
<str1ngs>peanutbutterandc: as far as I can see tuxguitar can we call it tuxguixtar? :P does not have the tux software synthesis. so you might need to used something else
<str1ngs>peanutbutterandc: have you tried with timidity and vmpk? you may need to use aconnect to connect the two channels
<peanutbutterandc>str1ngs, I did install timidity++ but nothing happened. I should probably try vmpk too
<nckx>terpri_: Not that *I* know of, but I've been unable to devote as much time to Guix (and hence reading all list mail) as I'd like since Dec. Please, do not hesitate to volunteer if you're interested in helping out. If you're just impatient to use it that's also nice to know, I guess 😛
<peanutbutterandc>str1ngs, yes, sir. I use tuxguitar to make tabs. I don't have a MIDI device, however no. Another thing that does not work with Tuxguitar in guix: I can't input fretboard numbers using numeric keys (which is possible in flatpak and was possible with the dpkg supplied from the website too)
<str1ngs>peanutbutterandc: okay seems you need tuxguitar for sure. can you at least click the fretboard?
<terpri_>peanutbutterandc, risc-v is very promising as well, and should be well-suited for phones, laptops, etc. it remains to be seen whether manunfacturers will have the same committment to freedom as talos/ibm/etc
<str1ngs>peanutbutterandc mercurial check phase it taking forever or I'd be testing tuxguitar already :(
<nckx>peanutbutterandc: POWER9 is modern and up to par with x86. Just not in price, and probably not in power efficiency.
<peanutbutterandc>terpri_, nckx : I see. That makes sense. I wonder - perhaps the FSF should buy a powerpc laptop for Mr. Stallman, if it is indeed that open. With Guix running on top of it - he might actually use it.
<brown121407>Hi Guix! Anyone here working with mariadb? I put mariadb in my system packages list and (mysql-service) in my services list but mysql is giving me ERROR 2002 (HY000): Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/run/mysqld/mysqld.sock' (2 "No such file or directory")
<nckx>They are powerful but I don't know if they're laptop-friendly. It might make more sense to put much slower but less hungry chips in laptops. Didn't rms use a Loongson MIPS machine?