<civodul>language-specific package managers are typically written so that people can enjoy the language regardless of the system they're on (OS, distro, etc.)
<civodul>NieDzejkob: perhaps it's a case where a patch would be easier?
<kmicu>jojoz[m]: let’s imagine Idris chose Guix as language package manager: now we need to learn not only Idris but Guile/Guix too. For example to bootstrap ecosystem wow we not only have Idris dependencies but also Guix dependencies.
<apteryx>hello Guix! Do profiles keep track of which Guix commit (and channels)? they originate from?
<NieDzejkob>civodul: hmm, I'd have to first patch it to something like @XSET@ and then substitute in the real path, but that's a good idea
<jojoz[m]>civodul: I mean, you can run Guix on other distros than Guix System. I'm not sure there's a problem
<jojoz[m]>kmicu: But how is that different than having to learn Stack & Stackage for Haskell, and having to learn Cargo & Crates.io for Rust? I'm not sure what you mean about the bootstrap ecosystem. Would users really have to know about that?
<jojoz[m]>kmicu: Hmm maybe, but would it really be more work than writing a package manager from scratch? Seems like that would be a lot more work for little to no benefit, at least for quite some time until the package manager has matured and become less buggy etc.
<apteryx>ah, commit d40ec4a0d00df08ec4f866467080235f5a9fea87 details the reason why it's off by default, but I need to think more about it to be convinced about it.
<civodul>apteryx: "guix package" saves provenance by default :-)
<apteryx>so not every profile are created the same? guix environment ... wouldn't, for example, record such information?
<kmicu>jojoz[m]: When we create a new proglanguge we want to use it and not switch to another ‘less cool’ language to maintain our cool language. I’m not stating that using general purpose pm is not acceptable solution but only that it brings some unpleasant trade‑offs.
<apteryx>I'm pushing a hack to its limit, and need to query the host environment (typically a guix environment) and retreive a Guix channel from it.
***calher is now known as KE0VVT
<jojoz[m]>kmicu: Hmm, I guess that's something to consider
<apteryx>I need to have my guix/prebuilt package inherit from the guix channel that was used to create the environment in which the developper issued "make" :-), so that all the rpaths references for the daemon are intact.
<apteryx>*inherit from guix from the guix channel ...
<NieDzejkob>how do I list transitive propagated inputs of a package?
<apteryx>NieDzejkob: not just propagated, but transitive inputs of a package can be shown using 'guix refresh --list-transitive'
<NieDzejkob>thanks, but I'm specifically after propagated, since that what gets put in the profile
<leoprikler>Well, you *could* walk the propagated-inputs on your own, but who would want to write code for that?
<leoprikler>If you like regexps blowing up in your face: `guix environment --ad-hoc gnome -- sh -c 'cat $GUIX_ENVIRONMENT/manifest' | sed -n -e "s/.*(\"/\"/p" | grep -v '[/)]' | sed -e "s/\"//g" | grep "^[a-z]" | sort | uniq`
<nckx>sneek: later tell DootNoot You can include any custom Xorg configuration (in xorg.conf syntax) using the extra-config field of the xorg-configuration record. Which is often used as the value for the xorg-configuration *field* of your display manager, so you get something like https://paste.debian.net/plain/1125662
<nckx>I also don't have the THD error but it seems to be the ‘thermald engine’. Is that correct?
<nckx>Does it say ‘unsupported CPU model’ by any chance?
<nckx>If so, there's nothing you can do besides disable thermald.
<nckx>(Opinion: too many people use thermald because they think it's important, but it's not unless your laptop was badly designed to begin with or you don't have/want fans to cool your system.)
<raghavgururajan>Yes, it is thermald engine. I use to get additional error message "Unsupported cpu model, use thermal-conf.xm file or run with --ignore-cpuid-check". I enabled that ignore flag in thermald and stopped getting that error message again. But I still continue to get that RAPL.
<nckx>What thermald feature do you use? Have you confirmed that it actually has an effect?
<raghavgururajan>I thought it prevents over-heating. I haven't faced that situation (yet).
<nckx>Yeah, you don't really want to ‘test’ that situation if you don't have to, I understand. But that makes it hard to give you any factual information. I'm convinced most people run thermald in placebo mode anyway, because they read the description and then think they need it. Your CPU will downclock or shut down if it overheats, thermald is more for situations where you want to override the built-in limits (e.g. to keep the fans spinning up at all on a me
<nckx>dia box and/or don't care about performance and/or you're paranoid).
<efraim>I have (several) poorly designed laptops that overheat
*raghavgururajan is also having coffee. Cheers nckx!
<efraim>Only sandy bridge and later doesn't help me, I don't think I have anything that new
<nckx>raghavgururajan: If you're worried about overheating I'd install a temperature monitor applet (or hack something manually based on lm-sensors, which is what I did), then keep an eye on that whenever you load your CPU for long periods of time until you're satisfied that your CPU/firmware/laptop design does the right thing. I'd personally trust that much more than a thermald that says your processor is unsupported: what if it detects overheating and is unable to
<nckx>actually tell your CPU to do anything about it? That's worse than bad.
*nckx still feels like half a traitor for going with a (non-Librebooted) X230T instead of X200T but the SL9400 was simply a deal-breaker ☹
<nckx>raghavgururajan: Interesting, that's not even on my go-to comparison site. Still, even if it's 14% faster than the SL9400, I probably wouldn't be able to live with it… https://www.tobias.gr/sl9400-my7.png
<nckx>Last I heard the Technoetical owner was attending the Guix days. Let us all pressure them into shipping Guix System by default.
<raghavgururajan>This is the ideal laptop for those who waver between the X200 and T400: it is much lighter and slimmer than T400 but as powerful, and it has a touchpad, a LED wider screen and an optical unit, when compared to the smaller X200. The T400s is the most modern x86_64 laptop supported by Libreboot! It has been launched one year after the X200(s/T), T400 and T500 and has the same keyboard as the X220 and T
<raghavgururajan>420 models. It is also very rare and the hardest to flash externally with Libreboot, harder than the X200 Tablet.
<str1ngs>techckinally speaking the term might be . I prefer notebooks to laptops
<raghavgururajan>same keyboard as the X220 and T420 models. It is also very rare and the hardest to flash externally with Libreboot, harder than the X200 Tablet.
<str1ngs>raghavgururajan maybe though based on this describption it's not as large as the regular T series
<str1ngs>I think once I get my pinebook I will flash my x220
<nckx>raghavgururajan: Mm… GNOME-related patches? As hinted at before I don't feel comfortable signing off on those, since I don't use GNOME and previous ones introduced some bugs that annoyed people who do.
<nckx>raghavgururajan: While you should take them seriously & fix them & always strive to improve & blah blah blah, I hope you haven't been discouraged by the bug reports. It happens. Only (s)he who does nothing does nothing wrong. Just keep improving.
<raghavgururajan>nckx Of course :-) I am not discouraged at all. "Practise makes a man perfect".
<NieDzejkob>mjw: --pure has a smaller chance of getting messed up by users' settings, but doing it without --pure works just fine too
<dadinn>I am trying to understand the system-config.scm format. It seems to me it is not just static data, as it uses guile functions like `list`. `cons`, and `append` inside the `file-systems` and and `mapped-devices` sections... so I would like to understand how the evaluation is done here
<mjw>NieDzejkob, OK, so the "real" workflow is simply doing guix environment guix and then making sure you have everything you need as "extra" installed with guix install ...
<dadinn>is `file-systems` itself a function? If not how does the `list` and `cons` functions get evaluated under it?
<sameerynho>hey folks, regarding to the graalVM stuff, oracle releases prebuild graalVM distribution. So should i just use the same distribution as a substitude ?
<NieDzejkob>dadinn: operating-system is a struct, file-systems is its field
<mjw>mehlon, OK, and don't care about subtleties of works under AND or OR dual licenses?
<dadinn>NieDzejkob: I am not familiar with the structs, is `file-systems` a kind of "factory method" to create the struct? If so what is the evaluation strategy, because it is not eager by the look of it
<mjw>mehlon, I am fine with that. The reasons for the dual license are slightly obscure anyway.
<mjw>(Basically the libraries are also integrated into some linux gplv2-only code, which is incompatible with lgplv3+, so it got dual licensed for those silly gplv2-only projects.)
<mehlon>there isn't any sophisticated licensing code in guix (yet?)
<civodul>mjw: so far we simply add a comment to explain whether the list means "dual licensing" or "multiple licenses"
<sameerynho>hey folks, if a software authors provides prebuild binary package for their software, can I just download and extract it as the build process ? (I'm trying to create a guix package for it )
<mehlon>sameerynho: yes, but all packages in official guix repo are built from source
<jojoz[m]>(Can anyone tell me)/(Where can I read about) how exactly patch-submissions should look? More specifically, is there a specific format for title and message I should follow? Can I define 2 closely related packages in the same commit/patch? Should the patch be sent as an attachment or included in the email body inline?
<mjw>NieDzejkob, emacs, but pretty noob with scheme (and no, I don't really know elips either). Not yet in the habit of bracket matching. I get confused easily as, like in this case, the last line just closes everything, including stuff that was opened way above the visible buffer view.
<roptat>for instance, I use it with guix to download the po from the TP, work on it, and send it back to the TP, without ever interacting with the robot myself :)
<roptat>I also use it to connect to transifex, get yaml files for translating the iD editor (from openstreetmap), and send it back my work when I'm finished
<roptat>in the latest version, I added support for github and gitlab instances: if there is no translation platform, you can download the repo, the tool will find all translatable files, you work on them and at the end you can send a pull request/merge request to the project
<nckx>rekado: That's what I thought, but then they all link to the top message instead of using (say) #anchors. But never mind, as long as it's known it's fine.