<mehlon>sneek, sneek is a sneek sneek that sneek sneek sneek sneek sneek <sneek>Someone once said sneek is a good bot <mehlon>ah, I guess robots dont understand love ;-; <oscar123123>is it possible to upgrade some specific packages and not the entire profile ? <pkill9>just provide packages after `--upgrade` <oscar123123>I ran into a conflict and upgrading libx11 and libxcomposite didn't help <lfam>oscar123123: You can rollback with `guix package --rollback` <lfam>You can't always upgrade just one part of your profile, due to issues like this <mbakke>oscar123123: did you try "guix package -u libxcomposite libxcb" as the error suggested? <lfam>Try `guix package --list-generations` and `guix package --switch-generation=` <oscar123123>i'm confused with what `guix upgrade`. what it does exactly ? I though it upgrades all the INSTALLED packages, but it's downloading postgres and some other package that i didn't install <lfam>oscar123123: It does what you thought it did <lfam>Postgres is a dependency of something you have installed <oscar123123>ok thanks , is there any way to check the dependency tree to see where does that postgres is coming from <gnutec>Icecat can't show numbers in some sites. Maybe is something about fonts. <lfam>oscar123123: `guix graph` has a variety of tools for that <lfam>The manual has some good examples <oscar123123>thanks, i'm reading the manual at moment, but it's huuuuge <lfam>But on the other hand, you don't need to read it all to use Guix <oscar123123>yeah, i'm in chapter 4 though and i still think i have a long way to go <pkill9>oscar123123: i have, with my fhs support service i ran a downloaded firefox <gnutec>lfam: I have no idea how to use that. But I only upgrade de system and the packages I have. Maybe with a new upgrade. <oscar123123>gnutec is it possible to use mainstream kernel like that or I have to use linux-libre only ? <gnutec>You can create a guix package of the kernel that you want to use, then install. <oscar123123>Unfortunately, it appears to me that my adventure with guixSD reached to its end in only few hours, such a shame. the whole idea of a functional package manager is super cool <oscar123123>but it's too painful to use my tools on guix SD and i don't like the idea of forcing user to only use completely free software (it's kind of against the freedom of will) <nckx>oscar123123: I don't use Linux-Libre either, not because of the Libre part but because I like to patch it to hell. It's quite easy to customise your kernel once you git gud at Guix. <nckx>oscar123123: o/ and may we meet again someday. <oscar123123>nckx yeah the kernel part can be done even manually in the worst case scenario, but i can't keep fighting my linux box to install some basic software like firefox or other similar stuff, i just don't have the time <oscar123123>I'm a lisp lover and I was like oh my god guix SD should be pretty awesome and it is but there are still some blockers that i just can't deal with <nckx>‘install some basic software like firefox’ is misleading. You're trying to run a binary blob from another system on Guix, that's not trivial. <nckx>Neither is packaging Firefox in a way that keeps both Mozilla & the FSF happy. <nckx>That said I hope we keep growing & manage to win you back some day. <oscar123123>nckx well. well another system is kinda harsh as well. its just a linux compatible binary right ? with some dependencies to shared libraries <oscar123123>there should be a way around it that allow people to use such a sofware <nckx>We don't really aspire to be a Linux. That's an implementation detail. A handy one, mind you. <nckx>Stand on the shoulders of giants & all that. But binary compatibility is not a goal. <nckx>oscar123123: I doubt that, but as long as people keep working on and extending compatibility layers like the aforementioned FHS service it will probably be a *feature* we can provide. Subtle difference, perhaps, but it might explain the (apparent) ‘omg your system won't even run this Firefox!?’ <-> ‘eh yeah we know, so’ mismatch. I can understand how that can seem… bizarre 🙂 <str1ngs>is firefox considered non-free discussion? <str1ngs>as in you can not explain how to use firefox on guix? <drakonis>isn't it as simple as changing the source? <drakonis>he was trying to download a prebuilt firefox to run on guix <str1ngs>how do I reference an output from an package expression? I want to reference the lib output from gcc. I understand it is hidden <str1ngs>(@@ (gnu packages gcc) gcc) will give me the package but I need to return the lib output <pkill9>so you can discuss how to get it <drakonis>debian used to ship firefox with their own branding until recently <drakonis>icecat ships with different settings than firefox <bandali>fwiw, the whole debian shipping “official” firefox is a bit of a grey area <jackhill>but in addition to the branding, icecat makes other good changes like not recommending non-free software. Now that browsers are platforms for running software, and complicated ones at that <jackhill>I'm happy to have the help to use them with the most freedom as possible, and one of the things that I like about Guix is that it is not just me against the world there is a whole community to help keep icecat happy on the system. <jackhill>(maybe a channel would be appropriate for firefox) <drakonis>but i'm yet to find one that comes with firefox <drakonis>isnt exactly difficult as it is as simple as replacing the source tarball used for the build <jackhill>that said, I seem to most be using gnome-web recently, which is a fine experience too, but probably makes me easy to fingerprint <apteryx>hmm, the new inkspace 1.0beta2 requires libsoup, which creates a cycle <rolas978>Hello. I am having issues with "guix system reconfigure", where I get an error that says builder for xserver.conf.drv failed with exit code 1. What can I do? Is there anything I should provide? <str1ngs>jackhill: progress on nomad start up soon. I'm just working on a couple of GI issues <efraim>str1ngs: try (@@ (gnu packges gcc) gcc "lib") <efraim>PurpleSym: (license (list license1 license2 ...)) <sneek>Welcome back civodul, you have 1 message. <sneek>civodul, janneke says: second hidpi patch is now on master; for setting grub resolution -- you may like that <nckx>efraim: Unfortunately it's not that simple 😉 or at least (@@ (gnu packges gcc) gcc "lib") doesn't work everywhere. <nckx>sneek: later tell rolas978: <I get an error that says builder for xserver.conf.drv failed with exit code 1. What can I do?> The full output would be helpful. You can use a pastebin on IRC, or send an e-mail to help-guix@gnu.org if you prefer. If the last ~10 lines of that output mention a .bz2 log file, please include its text as well. <nckx>sneek: later tell gnutec: Thanks for that interesting link! It took me a while to find a ‘GPL’ font, and I ended up just refreshing the page until I found one (https://www.1001freefonts.com/montserrat.font, which is actually good enough to package). Do you know if there's a way to filter by licence? <janneke>civodul: well, yeah. nckx reverted it (thankfully) because guix pull failed, but we'll have it rsn <raghav-gururajan>sneek: later tell janneke: Woah! I just came across your project Gash. Nice, an interesting work. :) <nckx>janneke: Good morning! Have you investigated that error yet? <nckx>(Not urgent, just wondering if I could help, as unlikely as that is.) <janneke>nckx: sure, you should have mail about that <sneek>Welcome back janneke, you have 1 message. <sneek>janneke, raghav-gururajan says: Woah! I just came across your project Gash. Nice, an interesting work. :) <janneke>raghav-gururajan: thank you; that's a joint effort with samplet and rutger <nckx>OK, I'll read my mails soon. <janneke>nckx: it was a test that uses #f as grub-config record value that my code was not robust against <janneke>so, had i run `make check' before submitting, that would have caught it :-/ <janneke>prolly a good idea when changing something in this area <civodul>raghav-gururajan: "wrapper for a C library" or "bindings for a C library" are synonymous <civodul>it means making that C library accessible from some other language, such as Guile <raghav-gururajan>civodul So guile-glib is a glib wrapper/binding for guile, such that guile-based applications can use/access glib. Correct? <civodul>raghav-gururajan: not sure if this one exists, but yes <civodul>there's guile-gcrypt for libgcrypt, guile-git for libgit2, etc. <jayspeer>lisp has the whole foreign function interface <raghav-gururajan>civodul Are wrappers/binding always two-way street? Or is usually one way? <raghav-gururajan>For example, PyQt. Py accessing/using Qt parts (or) Qt accessing/using Py parts (or) both? Btw, by parts I mean libraries etc.. <fps>hmmm, i saw a highlight of my nick but my scrollback doesn't have it anymore :( <nckx>fps: Maybe a false positive? Only mention since 20 Dec was ‘ipfs’ and ‘60fps’. <fps>nckx: that's very possible! Thanks for checking! :) <nckx>(Not a great nick to have highlighted in graphics discussions…) <nckx>Er, ‘ifps’, sic, of course. <fps>yeah i sometimes get "mentions" on github when some project has a macro @fps or something in their pull requests ;) <leoprikler>raghav-gururajan: guile-gnome is pretty outdated. If you want to start a new project, guile-gi or g-golf are preferrable, though both are experimental. <raghav-gururajan>leoprikler Oh. :(. I just might rewrite gnome in guile, without redhat creeps (nm, dbus, pa and sysd). *raghav-gururajan dreams about that ^ <nckx>I know I can be an opinionated bastard myself, but please don't call other projects or developers ‘creeps’ here. <jayspeer>nckx: they are more of a feauture creeps :^) <leoprikler>I love how we recently got a pulseaudio-service-type without support for configuration files. <leoprikler>raghav-gururajan: When adding gnome packages, try to skip gtk-update-icon-cache where possible instead of adding gtk+:bin <leoprikler>The files generated from it are useless and there exists a profile hook. <raghav-gururajan>leoprikler Could you explain further? I am not able understand profile hook will do with regards to g-u-i-c. <leoprikler>There is a profile hook that invokes guic on the union-build of share/icons, hence invoking guic in any single package is superfluous. <alextee[m]>is there an easy way to split a commit/patch into 4? <alextee[m]>i sent a patch containing 4 packages but i don't feel like going through the trouble to split it manually <guixy>I'm trying to add a wrapper to clojure. <guixy>At first I sent a patch that adds a simple wrapper <guixy>But I later found a first-party wrapper. <guixy>It is in its own source tarball. <guixy>I'm thinking of making it its own package. <guixy>It could be a private package installed as a propagated input to clojure. <guixy>The wrappers themselves would need a wrapper. <guixy>I'll ask again in a few hours... <leoprikler>alextee[m]: It will potentially be split by whoever looks at it or they will ask you to split it. For now just wait for review. <alextee[m]>leoprikler: im asking because i got asked to split it :-) <alextee[m]>but i hope whoever wants to merge it does it instead lol <leoprikler>Okay, so I assume your patch is the current head of git, is it not? <alextee[m]>a couple of days old but it was the lastest master at the time <leoprikler>okay, in that case do `git revert HEAD^`, followed by `git commit --patch gnu` <leoprikler>Include the hunks you need for the first patch, then write a commit message. <leoprikler>repeat `git commit --patch gnu` until you're done <leoprikler>in your current state, git reset HEAD^ --hard, followed by `git reset HEAD` <leoprikler>that should undo my bogus and soft reset your git to before the patch got added (but still keeping the files you added) <leoprikler>in that case unstage them and stage only a single package <alextee[m]>now how do i split them? there's for example 2 packages in 1 file <leoprikler>IIRC you can split the hunk with some command in the interface <leoprikler>alternatively, you can use gitg to select lines to stage <alextee[m]>would be great if someone could look at the zrythm patch i just sent too :-) <leoprikler>I find it somewhat weird, that it's split over multiple bugs. Try `git send-email --compose` next time 😉️ <leoprikler>apart from that LGTM but I don't have commit access <alextee[m]>leoprikler: i was told in the past to split it into separate bugs <alextee[m]>git: 'send-email' is not a git command. See 'git --help'. <alextee[m]>does it really send an email though? i guess you need to configure your email servers and whatnot <kmicu>man git-send-email for examples <kmicu>“Centralized Microsoft GitHub exists cuz folks didn’t read man pages.”—ancient Summerian proverb <alextee[m]>nice, very rare to see useful examples in a manpage <alextee[m]>it's usually just a bunch of technical crap i usually skim through lol <alextee[m]>i learn to use programs by searching on the internet for examples because i cant understand most of the technical jargon in manpages <kmicu>This is a secret so don’t tell anyone but GNU find also has EXAMPLES section. <jayspeer>well, manpages were designed not as a learning resource, but as a reference for skilled users <str1ngs>I use --help for the TLDR version :P <leoprikler>but how do you become a skilled user if even the manpage is too complicated? <alextee[m]>it sounds more like they are for skilled users and not for plebs like me who just want to do basic things but can't find some basic examples unless they search in stackoverflow :P <str1ngs>does anyone else find it ironic info are manuals and man's are pages? <jayspeer>str1ngs: I was just about to mention that :^) ***ng0_ is now known as ng0
<apfel>hi there, i try to create a package definition, this package will build some kernel modules and therefor needs the kernel headers. The package does not find the headers though. I want to specify the location, but how can i get the location of a native-input? https://pastebin.com/njh2iXRy <leoprikler>does (assoc-ref inputs ...) not give you what you want? <kirisime>apfel: (assoc-ref %build-inputs "linux")? <kirisime>Outputs are called %outputs, inputs %build-inputs. Unless you're in a build phase where the lambda list names the variable. <g_bor[m]>I got a strange error from guix that I have never seen before <g_bor[m]>it says guix system: error: got unexpected path from substituter <str1ngs>is this during pull or anything like that? <str1ngs>did it show the path that was unexpected? <g_bor[m]>Running the same thing comaplains for different paths... <g_bor[m]>last one is: /gnu/store/58177cn6ljrnxkcvdqdsl1z3r0v9j7ry-ld-wrapper-boot3-0 <apfel>leoprikler,kirisime: thanks! <valignatev>hey #guix, what do you think about packaging this: https://github.com/briansmith/webpki in regards to licensing? This is clearly a free softwar, although it has a custom ICS-like license. What is Guix policy regarding projects like this one? <g_bor[m]>ad it seems that some substitutes work just fine before these... <str1ngs>g_bor[m]: I meant can you verify it's using substitutes in general <str1ngs>and not building everything from source <str1ngs>try something like guix build bash -n <leoprikler>valignatev: if there's no matching license in (guix licenses), you can still use the license constructor in place, filling it with necessary information <valignatev>leoprikler: Got it, thanks. My question is more about whether such package will be accepted in guix upstream or not <leoprikler>probably yes. If possibly, unbundle or delete the chromium plugin, though, that will make it easier <alextee[m]>guix package --list-g <tab> -> guix package --list-generations <leoprikler>alextee[m]: they exist already, your shell is probably borked <leoprikler>fpath=(/run/current-system/profile/share/zsh/site-functions/ $fpath) <raghav-gururajan>leoprikler Where can I learn about profile hooks? I could not find in the manual. <leoprikler>raghav-gururajan: you'll have to read the source, but that's not the point <str1ngs>that might not work on foreign distro's . just a note <raghav-gururajan>leoprikler I would like learn what are profile hooks in general and what it does. :) <leoprikler>the point is, that a profile hook already takes care of your icon caches <leoprikler>profile hooks are those things that run after `guix install` etc. <leoprikler>alextee[m]: fpath is a zsh-specific path variable, in which to search for zsh functions <leoprikler>alextee[m]: did you start a new shell afterwards? <alextee[m]>i spawned a new tab in gnome terminal and guix pa <tab> doesnt work <alextee[m]>added this to my .zshrc: fpath=(/run/current-system/profile/share/zsh/site-functions/ $fpath) <leoprikler>yeah, that's too late, you need that line before compinit <guixy>It looks like sassc has a memory leak. <leoprikler>btw. lines 4-6 should probably belong to .zprofile <alextee[m]>leoprikler: one gets created when i launch a new shell <guixy>Since sassc has a memory leak, building arc-theme causes the system to freeze. <guixy>Should we remove arc-theme and other packages dependent on sassc until we can fix it? <leoprikler>Reverting sassc to an earlier commit, where arc-theme still builds should suffice. <guixy>I'll see if I can find that commit. <leoprikler>Alternatively uprade it to a new commit or patch the memleak locally. <leoprikler>alextee[m]: can I assume from the "oh", that it works now? <alextee[m]>leoprikler: no the "oh" was for the it should go in .zprofile <leoprikler>then try setting fpath as the very first thing in your .zshrc <leoprikler>I'm sadly not familiar with those fancy oh-my-zsh setups, so I can't give you any better help. <drakonis>alextee[m]: did you get the files from skel? <alextee[m]>drakonis: what's skel? i just installed ohmyzsh following the basic instructions <alextee[m]>fwiw the autocomplete works for other programs like git, find, etc. <drakonis>copy its contents to your home directory <alextee[m]>lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 16 Jan 3 07:43 /etc/skel -> /etc/static/skel <drakonis>if you do ls -a /etc/skel you'll get the hidden files <alextee[m]>ls -la /gnu/store/ipvvvjbxd2grq4j9n1lyww5yhbwliawn-skel <leoprikler>which is still better than lines 4-6 of your previous bashrc <alextee[m]>so i guess i don't need the GUIX_PROFILE and GUIX_LOCPATH stuff anymore <leoprikler>but doesn't solve the missing guix functions IIRC <guixy>Is there a way to define a local channel? For example, if I have something in $HOME/Documents/guix-packages how would I use it without relying on GUIX_PACKAGE_PATH? <bavier>guixy: see the manual for an example <leoprikler>Great, I just now noticed, that GNOME audio settings are borked. Thanks, raghav-gururajan. <civodul>uh, how come there's no search path for CLASSPATH in our JDK? <guixy>bavier: there's no example of a local channel in the manual. In fact, the manual makes it seem like it has to be a git repository, which experience has taught me should not be local. That's why I asked. <guixy>leoprikler: thanks. I'll try that. <bavier>guixy: oh, indeed, I thought there was a file://... example <leoprikler>guixy, you can have a local git repo with the file uri syntax <NieDzejkob>alextee[m]: "oh i thought ls followd [sic] the symlinks" note the difference in output between 'ls -la /etc/skel' and 'ls -la /etc/skel/' (trailing slash) <guixy>leoprikler The string "file://" is only in the manual twice, and nowhere near the context of channels. It isn't anywhere in the cookbook either. Adding it would be useful for future reference. <nckx>guixy: Which experience taught you that git repositories should be local? Sounds like a bug. <guixy>I tried to use a local bare repository as a source for a package. I want to be able to use git to keep track of changes to my programs and be able to use the --commit and --branch options. It didn't work. ***apteryx_ is now known as apteryx
<leoprikler>of course, I just clarified the section of the manual you "quoted", so that you can have your local channel right now <apteryx>the latest Inkscapes requires libsoup. Problem: dblatex requires inkscape, inkscape requires libsoup which requires gtk-doc which requires inkscape <drakonis>local channels are fine and dandy but please expose it for everyone to consume the goods <apteryx>dblatex could use 'fop' instead of inkscape (which is not yet packaged), but this depends on Java, which seems backward. <leoprikler>can we build inkscape without libsoup support in some way? <leoprikler>so that we can divide that into inkscape-minimal and inkscape? <apteryx>leoprikler: nope, the build system (CMake) wants it <apteryx>drakonis: I'm not sure I follow. libsoup is already its own package; the problem at hand is the cycle between libsoup <-> inkscape <drakonis>right, you need inkscape to build libsoup? <str1ngs>guixy: though that won't allow for --commit and --branch <str1ngs>guixy: if you want to use --commit and --branch then it's better to just use GUIX_PACKAGE_PATH vs a channel. channels require pull which becomes tedious for testing <guixy>I was using GUIX_PACKAGE_PATH for the package I tried to make with a local git repository. <guixy>I did end up using the local directory and checking out the commits I wanted. <str1ngs>guixy: when you say local directory do you mean for the package expression or the packages it's self? <leoprikler>I think I could do that – is there a preliminary inkscape package somewhere? <leoprikler>(imo it would be even better to notify upstream and have them add a "without-http" flag) <apteryx>leoprikler: as an alternative we could also build dblatex without inkscape (a dblatex-minimal) package. <apteryx>I haven't yet studied the ramifications of this <sneek>Welcome back grillon, you have 1 message. <grillon>thank you apteryx, seems very interesting <apteryx>grillon: ^ related to your question about if Guix can replace Yocto <apteryx>oh right, this gtk-doc thing is used just to generate the doc of libsoup? <apteryx>this sounds like the best (as in easiest ;-)) idea so far <lispmacs[work]>hi, I'm getting errors from various application that they cannot set locale to en_US.utf8. But I've got glibc-locales 2.29 installed, and have set GUIX_LOCPATH=$HOME/.guix-profile/lib/locale. Wxmaxima program is an example. when I run ldd on wxmaxima I see it is linked to libc 2.29, so I don't understand why it is not getting the locale info <lispmacs[work]>drakonis: first user account, home directory provided by Guix during install <lispmacs[work]>drakonis: not sure exactly what to check for, but I see stuff like $GUIX_ENVIRONMENT references in my .bashrc <lispmacs[work]>drakonis: yeah, diff shows match with /etc/skel/.bashrc, except for two lines I added later <lispmacs[work]>just did now, everything matches up exactly, except the difference I mentioned above <lispmacs[work]>i wonder if it is some dependency that uses a different libc version, like a python dependency or something <lispmacs[work]>drakonis: I run my own "stable" branch of guix, master is too fragile <lispmacs[work]>the problems I faced trying to run master guix are far worse than this one, so I just cherry pick stuff I want from master <lispmacs[work]>like, network breaks completely, or evolution can't connect to the account data <mehlon>ah, I installed openwrt on my router and email support just told me to piss off <lispmacs[work]>drakonis: it's a Jan 3 commit, plus a few cherry picked commits for new packages and a security update <lispmacs[work]>that is my user account, Guix system is a bit farther behind. I was planning to sync them on the next official Guix release <drakonis>hmm maybe you should sync your global system <lispmacs[work]>drakonis: it is an idea, I guess, but I understood from the documentation that users can use whatever locales they want separate from the system so long as the set GUIX_LOCPATH <drakonis>i really dont have any of those issues here, so i suppose you can upgrade it <g_bor[m]> ok, now I completetly updated my system. <g_bor[m]>Let's see if this cures the unexpected path thing.... <drakonis>i'm honestly surprised at the rate that new packages pop on the repositories <raghav-gururajan>leoprikler What? The sound settings are working fine. What exactly is missing? <pkill9>lispmacs[work]: do you have to fix up the commits much <lispmacs[work]>95% of what I cherry pick is just emacs extensions. Most of the rest is bug fixes to some existing packages I use, usually nothing system level <drakonis>pkill9: he's got the user system ahead of the global <alextee[m]>building /gnu/store/w2p8gwfvk2vzak2bw2x6m04swydg9wgz-libreoffice-6.3.4.2.drv... <alextee[m]>and my / partition runs out of disk space and fails <drakonis>did you alter anything that libreoffice depends on? <guixy>I cloned the guix repository and set up that location as my only channel. When I run "guix pull" I get an error. <guixy>error: 'guix' channel is lacking <guixy>It doesn't say what the channel is lacking... <leoprikler>raghav-gururajan: all the fields are dead on my ed <leoprikler>do you by any chance have pulseaudio installed in some form or another? <raghav-gururajan>leoprikler Hmm. Do you have %desktop-services? It has the pulseaudio service that gnome uses. <leoprikler>There is no "pulseaudio service that gnome uses" <apteryx>guixy: what does your channel file look like? <raghav-gururajan>leoprikler You are right. There is no pa service inside desktop-services. For some reason I thought so. <leoprikler>gstreamer and stuff depending on it still works miraculously, but emacs and terminal don't beep and again, controls are dead <g_bor[m]>oops I have one substitute that is 184% complete :) <g_bor[m]>and I still have the unexpected path thing... <g_bor[m]>let's try to dig a bit where that comes from... <raghav-gururajan>For me, in Transmission, I never hear the ding sound when torrent completes. It suppose to. But now I hear it. <raghav-gururajan>the %desktop-services has the alsa-service. That's what I was meaning to say. But instead said as pulse audio. <leoprikler>yes and pulseaudio is still running for whatever reason <guixy>It works when I cons it with %default-channels <leoprikler>perhaps some input to pulse changed inbetween and now running gnome references a pulse that was gc'd <leoprikler>(unlikely because I keep old generations around for a while, but hey, grafts are a thing that exist) <raghav-gururajan>Anyway, I am curious about this. Even if some change caused this, then how come I don't have dead buttons but you do. <raghav-gururajan>leoprikler Let me know what you find, via sneek. I'll catch you tomorrow. *raghav-gururajan --> Zzz <leoprikler>I'll add pulseaudio-service-type and probably get rid of it that way. <nckx>guixy: You always need a ‘guix’ channel, which is missing until you add the default guix channel in %default-channels. <nckx>That's what that error means. <nckx>guixy: ‘is lacking’ is correct here but the message could be more proactive, like ‘error: there must be exactly one channel named ‘guix’’. Care to file a bug? <sneek>Welcome back roptat, you have 1 message. <sneek>roptat, raghav-gururajan says: Can I participate for outreachy may-august 2020 with guix? :-) <roptat>raghav-gururajan, I saw your email about outreachy, but I don't really want to mentor that project. I'm not very interested in gnome and I don't know it a lot either... <roptat>however, I'm willing to mentor the netlink project, or a project on improving accessibility of the installer <roptat>anyway, I had a question: is it possible to build a package with a different libc? I see we have e.g. glibc@2.28, but using --with-inputs=glibc=glibc@2.28 doesn't seem to work (I see glibc 2.29 in the build environment, and nothing is rebuilt recursively) <valignatev>What does "package N has an invalid input M" error means if the package N doesn't have package M specified as an input? <bluekeys>Hi guix. I've got a message I've not seen before when trying to install a package. It is guix: package: error: profile contains conflicting entries for emacs-all-the-icons <valignatev>Ok, I've figured that out. It was because one of the transitive dependencies had ' instead of ` type of quote. Super unhelpful error message <drakonis>specifically when including a new repository <lfam>bluekeys: Did you figure it out? <lfam>bluekeys: The issue is your profile refers to an older emacs-all-the-icons, but installing a package would bring in a newer emacs-all-the-icons <lfam>Probably because you did `guix pull` since the last time you updated all the packages in your profile <lfam>You could update all your packages or just the ones that refer to emacs-all-the-icons. Or you could use an older guix by switching `guix pull` generations <raghav-gururajan>roptat Okay. I understand. Anyway, I'll read on netlink project and get back to you. <bluekeys>lfam: I'm happy to have a newer emacs installed. I did just do a guix pull. How best to upgrade all packages in the system to the latest? <str1ngs>bluekeys: for the user package upgrade. for the system guix system reconfigure ./config.scm <nixo>Hello, in guix environment --container, is there some support for limiting cpu/memory usage (like cgroup, cpulimit+ulimit..)? <str1ngs>guix is already plural. it's pronouced geeks <str1ngs>both have profiles. you have a user profile and system profile <bavier>nixo: guix has a cpulimit package that you could include in your environment <str1ngs>but user profiles is not 100% right. since you can have many profile including environment profiles <bluekeys>I thought in guix multiple versions of the same package would live alongside one another in the store without problems? <roptat>in the store, but not in the same profile <str1ngs>think of profiles as glorified GNU stow :P <nixo>bavier: thanks, but since we can forbid network usage, limit directory access, something that can be set when spawning the container would be wonderful <roptat>that's because a profile is the union of its packages, so you can't have A version 1 and A version 2 at the same time (their files conflict) <roptat>in general though, a profile doesn't include dependencies: if foo depends on A version 1 and bar on A version 2, none of these A are explicitely installed in the profile: they are simply referred to by foo and bar <bluekeys>What's a gnu stow? ... Sorry, can you elaborate please, I'm still learning <roptat>that's how multiple versions of A can coexist: they are not in your profile <roptat>but that also can break sometime because of propagated inputs: these are depenedncies that get installed in your profile, instead of being only referred to by packages in your profile <bluekeys>thx peeps the package now installs and I've learned a little more for my mental guix model <sneek>Welcome back leoprikler, you have 1 message. <aaaa1111>hey folks, I'm totally new. how can i install wifi firmwares in guix? <aaaa1111>what do you mean supported ? but linux ? yes <g_bor[m]>I guess you are on Guix System, is that right? <g_bor[m]>Guix System uses linux-libre as a kernel. <aaaa1111>i'm not familiar with that, how it's different than a normal linux kernel <roptat>most wifi chips require a non free blob that we do not provide <roptat>linux-libre is the same as the linux kernel, but without any non free blob <aaaa1111>ok, i'm not sure about mine, it's an intel, but does it means that because i have this hardware i can't use guix ? <roptat>you can use guix, but not your wifi :) <aaaa1111>so how can i get ride of this useless kernel ? <roptat>you could buy a wifi usb dongle that's compatible with fully free systems like guix, they're cheap <aaaa1111>but my laptop has a wifi device, i should be able to install the driver right ? it's linux after all <roptat>or figure out how to install the non free blob (more likely, the non free linux kernel), but we won't help you since it would be countrary to our ethics <roptat>another solution is to install guix on top of an existing distro <aaaa1111>this non free part is a bit weird. linux kernel is GPL2 right, <mbakke>can't really tell where the collision is coming from, though <aaaa1111>i don't know, it feels like, buy a wifi dongle or you're on your own <bandali>firstly, let me assure you, it’s nothing personal <bandali>GNU advocates for free software and abolishing of proprietary (nonfree) software <ArneBab>Did one of you already manage to build pypy? I get the error that ctypes.util.find_library('c') fails <bandali>it would go against our principles to invite/teach users how to become subjugated and lose their freedom by installing nonfree software <aaaa1111>bandali, i understand the invite part but not the teach part, I though free software culture is about open knowledge. <guixy>h-node has a helpful list of wifi dongles that work with linux-libre. <bandali>but we won’t add to it in terms of teaching people how to subjugate themselves <bandali>and as guixy mentioned, h-node.org has a nice list of free software friendly hardware <ArneBab>aaaa1111: the goal here is to get to a state where you don’t need such firmware <aaaa1111>ArneBab i respect your opinion, but i don't like to be restricted by my tools. I see freedom in doing what ever i like with my hardware. I can't abandon everything over a night. It takes time and I think this approach is not for me <janneke>aaaa1111: depending on your hardware, you may even be able to replace your wifi card with one that is supported by free software <aaaa1111>I prefer to get rid of my dependency to non-free software step by step <ArneBab>aaaa1111: then go the simpler path for a while until you reach a state where you can leave unfree software behind. <kmicu>Hi aaaa1111: we don’t go to a vegan restaurant and aks for some meat. If we want meat we go to meat place and those paces exist but this is digital vegan restaurant so we will get no meat on the menu. <kmicu>Guix is free software and you can find on the internet how to modify it to your needs. <aaaa1111>kmicu interesting. thanks for clarifying it <ArneBab>I’m nowaway at the point where I can use Guix on my work machine in homeoffice, but that took quite a while. <aaaa1111>kmicu well i need to be able to use it first and then modify it <drakonis>the fix to your problem is to spin up a install iso that works <ArneBab>if your laptop doesn’t allow you to run it with purely free software, you might need to stick to the less free distributions and remember the problem when you buy your next laptop so you don’t hit that trap twice. <kmicu>You can tether via USB to install it, try in a vm or start using Guix, the package manager on your favorite distro. <ArneBab>(though it would be nicer to find a way to use it with Guix) <kmicu>(Search internet for examples of your use case. You will find them.) <drakonis>there's ways on the internet to have it work <drakonis>there's someone who did exactly what you want <kmicu>You can also get ten times cheaper dongel from Olimex ;) <drakonis>ArneBab: dont dunk on people for owning hardware that cant run libre-linux <ArneBab>did it appear that way? that wasn’t intentional. <ArneBab>My intention was to tell aaaa1111 that the problem was created by the hardware that tries to force usage of unfree software <roptat>don't worry too much, our position is hard to explain, I think you did a good job :) <g_bor[m]>drakonis: that is also my feeling. However I think that whatever could and would be said would not change that :) <kmicu>We can explain the situation in a friendly manner. No need to ‘buy the expensive and unsustainable dongle’ in your face. <str1ngs>hmmm technically this position is not achievable. only under extreme situations is hardware truly free. freeing hardware is a destination not the current state of affairs. <drakonis>to achieve this position at the current climate, you'd be running hardware far slower than that of the average computer today <g_bor[m]>str1ngs: I tend to agree, but I also believe that is a direction that should be taken. *CompanionCube is happy dabbling with guix as a foreign package manager even if GuixSD would be nice to give a whirl on the boxen <g_bor[m]>There are really nice projects that try to create hardware that is truly free... But you can't get the same performance of course. <drakonis>my hardware runs entirely fine with linux-libre, even though i'm using the vanilla kernel right now <g_bor[m]>I believe that the main benefit of this would be a more reliable verification that the more performant hardware works like it should... <drakonis>the path towards freedom is through education <apteryx>ArneBab: I don't think you've done anything wrong here. You were being informative and helpful. <ArneBab>question that may have gotten lost in the discussion: did one of you already get pypy compiled? <drakonis>its not wrong, its just the way it was said <ArneBab>I did not intend to use aggressive wording, so I think I made a mistake <drakonis>seeing the guy get told "you have to spend more money on your thing to make it work" and then "next time buy one that works" isn't a thing the average user would like to hear <apteryx>Well, it's never easy to digest "your current hardware won't cut it". <civodul>roptat: off-hand, would you have ClassNotFoundException debugging tips? the jar is on the classpath, strace shows the jar is opened, but then ClassNotFoundException <ArneBab>do you have a better way to say "in that state we cannot really help you yet — there’s no suitable driver for your hardware — but please remember this next time you buy hardware" <str1ngs>that statement makes to many assumptions <str1ngs>we cant assume he even bought his hardware. <ArneBab>str1ngs: do you mean it gives up too early? <kmicu>Keep in mind that even RMS used proprietary hardware and software to advance free software. Guix devs using ancient hardware can be counterproductive. <str1ngs>kmicu: yes and windows he has caveat's about these situations <str1ngs>kmicu: thanks for making this point it's often over looked. <kmicu>Also did I miss some messages pointing to the fact that aaaa1111 is he? <str1ngs>kmicu: no I thought about that after I used the pronoun :( <nckx>Good evening fellow freedom nazis. <atw>It's a hard discussion to have, but Guix is accessible to those who have the means to acquire suitable hardware. I think the right thing to do is to be forthright about this deliberately chosen limitation of Guix, and to mention things like foreign distro support or running in a VM <drakonis>i would like to allude to using different paths to achieve the goal of running guix <drakonis>there's ways to generate isos that get around this limitation <drakonis>its not impossible but its not endorsed or provided <g_bor[m]>Sometimes this is caused by a dependecy missing form the classpath... <atw>drakonis: as you likely know, precedent there is to not encourage such via official channels <roptat>civodul, you can check with "jar tf the.jar" that it contains the class you're trying to open <roptat>it could also be an issue with a custom class loader <drakonis>if someone's sufficiently motivated, they'll find a way around their predicament <drakonis>that is, to run guix and not by external forces <atw>indeed. for the distro-hopper, I'd hope that using the Guix distro in a VM would give a taste, that's something I like to mention <kmicu>[joke] Did you know that Jar Jar Binks is an allegory for efforts to make Java reproducible? <atw>there should absolutely be a JAR tool called binks or gungan *sirgazil goes for a run while libreoffice builds... <atw>I am also curious about this java issue, if there's a stacktrace <drakonis>it'd be fantastic for the budding new user, experiment before taking the plunge <kmicu>Here, I packaged Java ecosystem for Guix: echo '(display "mesa not reproducible, mesa maven of blobs")' > ./jarjarbinks.scm <drakonis>its clearly not the solution wanted in here <roptat>well we have maven, and I'm working towards a maven build system <roptat>I have one working when I use binary blobs from central, so what I need is to produce these blobs without maven <guixy>What is the best approach to bootstrap gradle? Sending what gradle does when it builds an early version of itself into a shell script? <guixy>I guess that would be sufficient, but would it be the best? *kmicu should not make fun of epic efforts to make Java reproducible cuz GHC is still bootstrapped from blobs 🥵 <roptat>guixy, first, bootstrap kotlin (and possibly scala, I'm not sure anymore) <g_bor[m]>roptat: I have also used jar jar links earlier to emulate parts of maven shadow in ant builds.... <guixy>Is kotlin necessary for gradle? <roptat>g_bor[m], yes, maven shadowing is not an issue <roptat>it's just that it still requires a huge mess of plugins and dependencies <g_bor[m]>roptat: iirc something about repo management was missing and maven-plugin-plugin was problematic... <g_bor[m]>I did not have a look at that for a while. <guixy>Is there no pre-kotlin gradle? <guixy>Is gradle necessary for kotlin? <roptat>a path to the more standards plugins (plugin-plugin, ...) <roptat>kotlin is built using gradle, but you could do without <roptat>the hard part is that kotlin is written in kotlin <roptat>you have to package kotlin before you can package gradle <guixy>Is there a public release of kotlin written in kotlin? <drakonis>because that sounds like a special kind of hell <roptat>yes, but as I said, you don't really *need* gradle, you could emulate it <roptat>java is full of these kind of dependency loops <roptat>same between scala and sbt for instance. sbt is written in scala and is built using sbt, while scala is written in scala and is built using sbt... <guixy>It sounds like it might be easier to write a kotlin->java translator. <kmicu>The Joy of Bootstrapping by roptat. When can I buy it? <roptat>also, same with jflex and javacc, they both depend on both of them <civodul>it builds fine, but then another package that builds against it gets ClassNotFoundException <civodul>i added "jar i zmq.jar" to get an INDEX.LIST thing, in case that helps <roptat>civodul, that class, is it from that package or from a dependency? <civodul>roptat: i'm trying to build cljzmq, which needs java-jzmq above; it's when i build cljzmq that i get ClassNotFoundException <roptat>we ended up packaging a binary version of jflex and javacc iirc <roptat>is jzmq.jar installed in a directory that's in CLASSPATH? <drakonis>hmm, a bad question, is guile 3.0 available? <roptat>also CLASSPATH should contain the jar file, not just a directory <guixy>We were able to break the cycle for gcc and g++ by using simpler compilers, correct? <drakonis>cool, and to have guix run with it is just a graft away? <str1ngs>drakonis: I don't think guix works completely yet. civodul would know <roptat>we could do the same with jflex and javacc <atw>civodul: is there a branch or patch with cljzmq? I'd like to look at this after work <roptat>so what we could do now is to package a binary (not bootstrapped) version of kotlin and possibly scala. Then i'm pretty sure to get gradle would be a matter of a few months working on package definitions during the evening <roptat>but I won't be able to maintain all that by myself <roptat>I actually can't maintain maven currently... <g_bor[m]>roptat: i believe that some bootstrapping info should be included into the packages, to show where we are packaging binaries... <roptat>wait, that was java cup, not javacc :) <roptat>and for some reason I can't find them in guix anymore... <roptat>or did I simply introduce it in my own packages, without commiting them to guix? <joshuaBPMan>Hey guix! Thanks for being so awesome in the help guix email list. I was about to submit two bug reports, and found the solution to both in help guix! Ya'll rock! <roptat>yes, 8K lines of java packages that are not yet commited to guix :/ <roptat>they're probably all out of date <roptat>or broken in some way, I want to cry <atw>great to hear, joshuaBPMan! <rekado>kmicu: it just so happens that I’ve “resumed” “work” on the Haskell bootstrap. <civodul>roptat: yes, "javac -classpath .../share/java/zmq.jar" <roptat>what class does it fail to start? do you get a backtrace? <civodul>roptat: Caused by: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: org.zeromq.ZContext <roptat>I've already got classnotfound exceptions on classes that were found just because they required a class that was not found <civodul>there's org/zeromq/ZMQ$Context.class in zmq.jar <civodul>could it be that something special needs to be done? <roptat>you need org/zeromq/ZContext.class <roptat>there's a ZMQ class that defines other classes inside it <roptat>so in the sources, you probably have a org/zeromq/ZMQ.java <roptat>in which you will find a ZMQ class that contains a definition for a Context class <roptat>maybe you don't have a compatible version of zmq? <atw>thanks for the patch, I will try to repro and follow along later <rekado>kmicu: for me the next step is to try to build the GHC 4 runtime directly with an old GCC (which we have thanks to the mes bootstrap). <rekado>and then use that together with hugs (because GHC 4 used a slightly modified Hugs instead of ghci) <rekado>…to interpret the compiler and build the compiler with itself. *rekado prepares to push the nfs service <civodul>roptat: since it's a JNI library, i think the org.zeromq.ZContext class is created by C code from the .so, no? <apfel>he guys, is there a guix package which builds additional kernel modules? <pkill9>there is the linux-module-build-system <drakonis>civodul: hey, can i run guix with guile 3.0 right now? <apfel>no no, not a module, but a package which brings/builds an aditional module <apfel>well, no, i mean, is there a pice of software which brings an aditional kernel module for you current kernel <apfel>because i want to package the DPDK which wants to build kernel modules <drakonis>you want to build dpdk's kernel modules? <apfel>i found out that it depends on a directory which is just a dead symlink in the case of guix, for example lib/modules/5.4.7-gnu/build <apfel>points to /tmp/guix-build-linux-libre-5.4.7.drv-0/linux-5.4.7 <apfel>which does not exist anymore <drakonis>ah so you want it to be available for the updated kernel? <drakonis>rebuild the module against every linux kernel release? <apfel>this is what i want, but i was wondering why this dead symlink is there <apfel>should this symlink not be deleted? <apfel>or does it still have a purpose? somehow? <apfel>maybe i should read the commit history <drakonis>real quick question, how do i deal with multiple channels that provide the same package? <leoprikler>that's the simplest way to specify which channel to use for which package <drakonis>could i use manifests on a system configuration as well? <leoprikler>no, system configuration is analogous to manifests <bandali>leoprikler, how would one specify the channel for a package in a manifest? <leoprikler>in both you use-module the given module, e.g. (gnu packages stuff) or (custom-channel packages stuff) <kirisime>If I need to modify a bit of a program's source code, should I put the modifying code into a snippet or a build phase after unpack? <leoprikler>kirisime: depends. If you're removing unfree sources, then snippet, if it's a hot-patch after unpack <kirisime>leoprikler: Right, since I'm changing webkitgk's secondary process models to have a test not fail because the current value was deprecated, it'll be a phase. <sirgazil>An hour later: guix package --upgrade still stucked on /gnu/store/...-libreoffice-6.3.4.2.drv build phase. No progress shown. *sirgazil interrupts upgrade. <kirisime>Usually when guix tries to build something for me that's not my own package it's because it's broken and there aren't substitutes for the same reason. <leoprikler>If Gentoo's slogan is "10 years compiling", Guix' slogan should be "10 years symlinking". <leoprikler>Fair enough, we could still sell shirts with the text "building /gnu/store/<hash>-profile.drv" though