<NieDzejkob>that's one of the three failures down. I think I'll tackle the rest tomorrow :D <NieDzejkob>before I go though, does (substitute* ...) use BRE or ERE regexes? <NieDzejkob>or I suppose I could just assume one way and see if the patch works as intended <nckx>NieDzejkob: Extended (so I guess ‘ERE’), but I don't know which dialect. <nckx>You can capture subexpressions and need to escape some more things. <NieDzejkob>tbh I'm just wondering whether I have to escape literal ()s <nckx>And then (at night) come the Guile escapes, so you end up with "\\(". <NieDzejkob>OH, thanks, that probably saved me a build attempt <NieDzejkob>(I would've probably tried to milk your parenthetical for humour (since it's 15 minutes past midnight in my timezone), if it weren't for the fact that I'm bad at humour when it's 15 minutes past midnight) <NieDzejkob>oh, and if you're wondering, the test has been failing ever since it was added in patch 8.1.1231 *nckx mutters ‘it's still strange assumption to make’ and ‘which regression did this actually fix’. <NieDzejkob>the test output is funny, if you scroll it wrong you'll only see the sub-report for the last test file ran <NieDzejkob>that's where the single test you mentioned failing is <NieDzejkob>also, I think the error message for strftime contains the current UTC hour <NieDzejkob>the test forces the timezone to EST and makes sure the result is different <NieDzejkob>is it possible that the build container does not have timezone data? <nckx>NieDzejkob: Yes. You can try adding tzdata-for-tests to native-inputs to see if that helps. <nckx>(The -for-tests variant is just a less-up-to-date copy to limit the number of dependencies & rebuilds; otherwise it's just as complete as the regular tzdata.) <NieDzejkob>OK. Should the approach here be to add the dep for tests or to patch out the test? <nckx>Unless the test is conceptually wrong, prefer fixing to disabling. <nckx>It won't add any run-time overhead. *nckx goes to fetch some logs for the fire. <NieDzejkob>yeah. I suppose build-time overhead doesn't matter at this scale <NieDzejkob>would you prefer fixing it somehow? I'm not sure how to go about it if so <nckx>NieDzejkob: It was already on my to-do list, so I don't ‘mind’ but who knows when I'll get to it while shiny low-level things keep distracting me. <nckx>Hence my glee when you volunteered 🙂 <nckx>NieDzejkob: Would you mind posting your work so far at guix-patches@? A [WIP] gnu: vim: Update to 8.2.0051. subject is fine. <nckx>That way it won't get lost whatever happens. <kelsoo>rust build failed again. It went through all the way to 1.37.0 Should I have run and update command after installing mrustc? <nckx>NieDzejkob: Oh, do it whenever suits you. <nckx>Gooberpatrol66: Don't know of a self-contained one but ‘guix package -A ^foo$ | grep channelname/packages’ or so, depending on the channel structure, can do the job. <nckx>kelsoo: ‘Run and update command’? <nckx>Guix builds are self-contained, you can't influence the build environment state by running a command and retrying, unless a Rust fix was actually pushed to master recently (and you can guix pull && guix build rust again). <kelsoo>I installed mcrustc. Should I have ran guix package -U straight after or could I expect the new package to be seen anyway <kelsoo>iiuc. A fix was posted. I updated mrustc, that's way I was suprised it ran through 19-37 on rust again. <nckx>kelsoo: What do you mean by ‘rust build failed’? <nckx>Installing packages doesn't affect Guix builds, only packages you build by hand yourself. <nckx>So you said. What do you mean by that? <nckx>‘guix {build,install,whatever} rust’? <nckx>cd ./myruststuff && rustc mystuff? <nckx>Those are very different things. <kelsoo>I'm trying to install icecat on 32bit but the build failed with rust <nckx>If you haven't guix pulled to the latest guix, do so now. If you already have, please file a bug report to bug-guix@gnu.org with the build log attached. <kelsoo>I installed mrustc hoping to fix it but the build ran through 19-37 again and still failed <nckx>kelsoo: Installed packages and builds are completely separate, you should probably remove any rust junk you installed unless you actually develop in Rust. <nckx>Guix 100% doesn't care what you have installed when it builds its own packages. *nckx really has to go now, good night #guix o/ <kelsoo>Just run guix pull. Ordinary user not a bit of geek in me :-) <kelsoo>Some people are political users :-) <kelsoo>I have used Dragora2 for 6 years but it's to old and unsupported. Dragora3 it not ready for normal users yet but I need libreoffice and a big browser etc. Checking out other systemd free systems in the mean time <gnutec>kelsoo, Sure! Political user got guix. hahah <gnutec>kelsoo, As a political user, guix is the most advanced system I ever see. But I don't work for NASA or something. ***catonano_ is now known as catonano
<raingloom>latest gparted segfaults, looks like it can't find any of its icons? insufficient wrapping at play? <nckx>raingloom: I've heard this before, check the bug tracker (if there's no bug report yet, you know what to do 😉 ). <nckx>raghav-gururajan: hulle o/ and \o goodbye. <EuAndreh[m]>Hi Guix! What's Guix equivalent of Nix's ghcWithPackages? <sneek>Welcome back efraim, you have 2 messages. <sneek>efraim, raghav-gururajan says: I have replied to your email with the modified patch. :-) <sneek>efraim, raghav-gururajan says: I have sent a new email (V3) containing spilt patches. Please ignore the previous email (V2). Thanks! <efraim>raghav-gururajan: I should get to the gnome patches today :) <bandali>ghcWithPackages seems to be a function that takes as argument a list of (haskell) packages, and provides an ad-hoc environment in which those packages are available <sneek>Welcome back janneke, you have 1 message. <janneke>sneek: later tell nly: thanks for putting the manuals up, that looks great. <efraim>raghav-gururajan: and to double-check, you've tried out gnome with your changes to the metapackage? <raghav-gururajan>efraim Would you be able to add 'gnome-theme-extras' to prop-inputs, before pushing? I just packaged it yesterday. <efraim>raghav-gururajan: I should be able to <efraim>it goes in GNOME-Core-Utilities or somewhere else? <EuAndreh[m]>bandali: have you done something similar (with any language) with guix? <efraim>raghav-gururajan: it won't let me edit the chart, i'll let you do the updates to it *kmicu is inspired by folks like Jone (on ML) to add systemd to Guix System xD <kmicu>Not really. systemd is nothing sepecial but at least it deters very unpleasant folks. :) <efraim>Even the BSDs internally remind each other not to bill themselves as a systemd-free alternative. <NieDzejkob>how do I make `whatis` work? It always returns "nothing appropriate", even though `apropos` works... <jlicht>kmicu: someone actually made a patch as an April's Fools joke once some years ago <jlicht>if not, it is the guix git repo that'll have to adapt to systemd ;-) <DootNoot>Hi everyone i've been having problems with watching youtube videos on any of my browsers on guix. They're all based on gtk-webkit. I couldn't find any information on it for any specific browser so I just wanna check if this is a guix problem or someting. has anyone else had this problem? <kelsoo>Hi guix. Afraid I still can't get icecat to build. 32bit rust runs through all versions fron 19-37 and fails <NieDzejkob>DootNoot: most videos are working fine for me on IceCat. There was a fix pushed recently (around christmas), so try `guix pull`, then `guix package -u` and restart the browser <NieDzejkob>kelsoo: when a build fails it tells you the path <kelsoo>this guix package: error: build of `/gnu/store/abmrdifpd1z72f66wm6kc66fpjbpj5wn-icecat-68.3.0-guix0-preview1.drv' failed <NieDzejkob>I'm gonna make a package build during guix package fail on purpose and see what it outputs for me <NieDzejkob>nckx: Since adding tzdata-for-tests didn't work, I decided to make a little test package, and the results are surprising. I think adding the package doesn't make programs detect the timezone data: https://hastebin.com/kotujuzaku.txt <NieDzejkob>(compiling the program outside of guix makes the TZ=EST ./tz commands' output vary <NieDzejkob>View build log at /var/log/guix/drvs/so/mehash.etc <--- THIS IS WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR <kelsoo>build of /gnu/store/lnnrrzdd418r02xi25246wjnqyrvzkcm-rust-1.19.0.drv failed <kelsoo>View build log at '/var/log/guix/drvs/ln/nrrzdd418r02xi25246wjnqyrvzkcm-rust-1.19.0.drv.bz2'. <NieDzejkob>ok, `bzcat /that/path | xclip` and paste it into some paste site <NieDzejkob>... and post the link here so that we can see what actually happened <DootNoot>NieDzejkob: yeah I can probably settle for icecat for now. Though i would really prefer to use another browser. Thanks for the help :) <NieDzejkob>DootNoot: Just curious, what other browsers were you considering before? <NieDzejkob>(reminds me of this proposal for special punctuation for marking "strip any implicit meaning off this sentence, none is intended") <DootNoot>NieDzejkob: next is really nice I think. qutebrowser allso (though it's borked now since QTWebEngine's not in the repos). And i allso quite like most of the webengine/webkit browsers a lot (I'm using epiphany right now). while i don dislike icecat for any reason it's been a bit buggy for me (mostly with fonts and stuff) and I think that some of the <DootNoot> changes it does to firefox kind of defeats the purpouse of using firefox, that is, a browser with lots of extensions that just works. I allso dislike the numerous default addons that you cant remove, just disable, eg. there's one whose entire descriptions is in russian that i dont know what it does and cant remove <bgardner>DootNoot: That's weird. I use Icecat and don't see the addon matching your description <DootNoot>"Spearexes' third party request blocker" <bgardner>I have that one, "Searxes' third-party request blocker", but the description is all in English (what little there is). <DootNoot>bgardner: idk if the description is russian per se but it's definetly cyrillic for me <bgardner>DootNoot: Bizarre, no idea why it's doing that for you. <DootNoot>Me neither but everything else is english <Gamayun>I think I had that in cyrillic too. Posb. down to not having en_US locale? <nckx>NieDzejkob: Nice. So 2 tests down, 1 to go? 🙂 <bgardner>I bet Gamayun is right, locale issues have been plaguing me too in the last couple months. I need to sit down and just fix that already. <bgardner>So is mine, but I still get locale errors. Something isn't 100% yet. <DootNoot>Yea probably. though i still dislike the fact that icecat even includes these wacky addons without functioning homepages and no way to remove them. I actually just want good ol vanilla firefox (maybe sans the nonfree trademarked stuff) or at least functioning webkit/qtwebengine :( i'll mabe get around to packaging firefox for myself soon <nckx>DootNoot: The main issue with vanilla FF from our PoV is that it links directly to a boundless number of non-free add-ons through its main menu. The trademark stuff is problematic but not quite as… offensive. <NieDzejkob>nckx: Yes. The last one does differential testing by comparing terminal "screenshots", and the test fails because the screenshot contains the path of bash, which is obviously not /bin/sh on guix. Do you think skipping this test it reasonable? <brettgilio>nckx: I sent an email response on the list to the jone person asking for the topic to be dropped as all of the relevant points have been addressed and are not something guix is able to help with directly <NieDzejkob>Re: Firefox. I was considering packaging iceweasel - I assume this would "fix" the concerns of both DootNoot and nckx here <nckx>NieDzejkob: I do, if it can't be trivially fixed by substituting "/bin/sh" with (which "bash") in the ‘golden’ copy as well. For example if it uses hashes, or if it somehow messes up the screen layout with its big-assedness. Your call. <DootNoot>NieDzejkob: Didnt know it still existed. iirc Debian dropped it in favor of just regular firefox-esr <kirisime>Does guix use the git-minimal package for git-fetch? It gets built before my issue with it happens. <nckx>brettgilio: Thank you. I saw they replied, but can't muster the energy to open it. A bit silly, but if I was sooper at the peeple stuff I wouldn't be here and it's holiday times, dammit. <nckx>DootNoot, NieDzejkob: IceWeasel *was* IceCat. IceWeasel was *also* an unrelated (??) Debian spin of FireFox IIRC. It's a mess. It's a name that should be avoided and yet it's still everywhere, and people continue ‘wanting IceWeasel’. <nckx>Always much fun figuring out what they mean by that. <NieDzejkob>nckx: There's also the option of making a /bin/sh symlink during tests, is that reasonable? Also, I noticed that the test patches that were the before are no longer necessary, should I remove them? <nckx>NieDzejkob: - Not possible, I'm afraid. The build environment isn't that mutable (by design). - Yes please! <nckx>brettgilio: OK, that wasn't as bad as I feared, just completely missing the point (…of Guix itself, one might even say). Thanks for responding. <brettgilio>nckx: agreed. Pretty much nothing more we can do. <pinoaffe>is there a way to install a crosscompiler toolchain (for riscv) on guix? *nckx wonders which distribution Jone previously used with defaults they 100% agreed with out of the box. I've never found mine. <nckx>pinoaffe: Not at this time. <janneke>nckx: while i have some problems with their tone and i admire the tone replies i do appreciate dustyweb's "[good] defaults matter" *kirisime feels the urge to bikeshed <nckx>janneke: I didn't get dustyweb's reply but I'm a very firm believer in that myself. <nckx>What do you mean by it here? <janneke>ah, he did not reply, i just heard him say that often <janneke>the choice between slim and gdm is an impossible one, afaic <janneke>and "you can change anything" can be a slippery slope <janneke>running gdm sometimes gives me problems with my audio, no idea how to report that <nckx>janneke: Ah 🙂 I haven't, but I 100% agree & can get worked up over bad defaults myself. But that's more about ‘nonsensical’ or contradictory defaults (i.e. ‘everyone knows you should tweak bar after installing foo, but we won't change the default because it breaks PDP-7s’). But this here is a matter of preference. <janneke>as a user i dislike the gdm default; as a developer i dislike unmantained software as a default <nckx>efraim: How did that go? It's commented out here with ‘; breaks stuff’ 😛 <nckx>Did you have to tweak anything? <raghav-gururajan>nckx May be we can make social contract for guix? So that we can express the what princples and design choices that guix will follow. In that way, new users can know what to expect. <janneke>efraim: oh, qt...i like to keep that off my system ;-) <kirisime>SDDM broke my system when I decided to try GNOME wayland through it, discovered that wacoms don't have visible cursors, and then rolled back only to discover that GDM now failed to start. *janneke also wonders at times if it really is "their imac" if they are not aware of all marketing that it is doing in their name <nckx>janneke: This is dangerously sheddy territorry, but I read ‘good defaults matter’ first & foremost as ‘you get a well-integrated system out of the box, you're not sent straight to the boiler room unless *you* so choose’. Us bein' hackers it's the first thing we do, but I honestly don't think we force all users to. GDM is intended to integrate nicely AFAIK, so it's a reasonable choice. Maybe not in a minimal- template but let's admit that's t <nckx>he most contentious & subjective word ever anyway. <nckx>Whoo, wall of text, sorry. *janneke appreciates the wall of text <raghav-gururajan>"Security is only as good as it's weakest link" --> "OS/Distro is only as good as it's default settings". ;-) <leoprikler>That's a hard jab against most tiling window managers ;) *raghav-gururajan uses GDM because of consistency with other parts of GNOME. <kirisime>By the way, how do I set an avatar so that it shows up right in GDM? ~/.face doesn't work. <kirisime>Literally the only issue I have with GDM. <efraim>Sorry, I'm on my phone right now. sddm works well enough for me, not sure if I can't get enlightenment with Wayland due to it or enlightenment or something else <leoprikler>guix $HOME directories are 700, meaning GDM can't read ~/.face <efraim>One of these days I'm going to package entrance (efl based login manager) and try using that <efraim>We also have a patch sitting on the ML for months now to add a service for lightdm <kirisime>leoprikler: Does that mean I can't pipe "mail" into "spool" files in people's home directories? <nckx>raghav-gururajan: I agree with my interpretation of that (😛), which is ‘the distro should install a usable system right out of the box, it should not expect me to have my dotfiles handy to actually use it.’ It might install a DM I hate, a DE I hate, & crap I don't need (all true of Guix) but I could install it in an emergency and get work done. If so, they are the *right* defaults, and yet I don't *like* any of them. Magic! I think not separating t <nckx>he two is the root of that mail. <nckx>Dropping me into slim + i3 without my .xsession is horrible. <nckx>I don't even remember the default i3 key bindings, but I can click a big-ass ‘Browse the Web!’ button any day. <nckx>Here it's Super-D but let's not fine-tune the pun to that. *nckx exchanged their ‘Win’ key for another from their gf's Thinkpad. <NieDzejkob>reminds me of the replacement keycaps that have a penguin on them <NieDzejkob>and now that I phrased it that way I'm imagining a keyboard where every key is just the penguin <nckx>Same, I was just wondering if there's a gnu alternative to those. <pkill9>what FOSS needs is a crack team of people creating documentation and error handling <NieDzejkob>GNU for the left super, Linux for the right super <nckx>pkill9: Nah fam we just need to print more stickers. <NieDzejkob>Dear Guix: if you have man-pages installed, what does `whatis man` output? "nothing appropriate" for me, and I'm wondering why that is <nckx>NieDzejkob: Which signal is that? I know 9 & 11. <NieDzejkob>which actually fits quite fell, since pkill9 is a user? <nckx>NieDzejkob: Thanks. SIGUSR1: 10. SIGUSR2: 12 because unix logic. <nckx>NieDzejkob: But if you increment it again you will kill them. <brettgilio>I'm just not going to respond nckx. It seems futile. *nckx trudges off to the mail box. <brettgilio>I suggested they open a bug report if they really have an issue. So until that happens I have cleaned my hands on this problem. <brettgilio>"maybe will be some more garbage" just shows their intentions. <nckx>‘Guix may not ship software I don't like’. No. SIGNOTABUG. <brettgilio>Right. It's all just a demonstration against software they don't like in the wrong channel. <nckx>(Not a fatal signal, don't worry, it just forces the process to stop and think about things for a while.) <nckx>Actually I want that now. <nckx>Or they'll use the word ‘garbage’ and that will be the end of that. <brettgilio>The thread basically died with the initial message. Hahah <kirisime>Maybe he tried the system a long while ago, liked it, and now is disappointed that the same configuration makes for a system he doesn't recognize. <janneke>frustration makes a bad communicator <pkill9>does `guix build -e` not search for modules from additional channels? It says "no code for module" when i add anything from my additional channel <brettgilio>civodul: somebody is mad at you for making gdm the default on help-guix. nckx and I responded and it just keeps going on and on. <nckx>kirisime: I am actually sympathetic to that (note that they didn't bring this up until mail number, what, 5?). That's an interesting question. <brettgilio>It's basically dead in the water though, nothing more can really be said on the issue. <nckx>Pity they burnt all their bridges with garbage. <nckx>brettgilio: It's all right to just let things lie, not everything can be solved, who knows the thread may cool down (we've had so much worse) & bear fruit. <brettgilio>nckx: imo they also burnt their bridge by insinuating that they do not want to configure anything. <civodul>well, i'm not all that happy with gdm either but i think there was rough consensus back then <civodul>we needed a default with proper i18n, a10n, and all that <janneke>i think that was the consensus here too :) <brettgilio>civodul: I feel you. I still use SLiM. But like janneke i think said, the developer in us can't reasonably promote unmaintained software <nckx>brettgilio: You're more patient while sleep-deprived than I am while not. I will now read everything you write with a laid-back midwestern accent. <roptat>civodul, l10n or a11y, but what is a10n? :p <nckx>I use slim too, but IIRC there were some real bugs/dead ends with .desktop support or whatever. <civodul>roptat: ah, i guess i meant a11y :-) <brettgilio>nckx: I'm mostly annoyed slim doesn't do multihead <nckx>brettgilio: Called it. And good point, I forgot about that. <brettgilio>Nothing like booting into guix on two monitors to see slim stretched and split all dumb. Hahaha <bandali>morning y’all; looks like i just about missed a lively discussion :p <nckx>It also didn't support Wayland last I looked. Even though we still default to X that's not a good outlook. <nckx>bandali: Turns out someone was wrong on the Internet today. You're a sysadmin, fix it. <brettgilio>bandali: you are now responsible for WrongOnTheInternetConf2019. <bandali>but i *just* woke up; how could it have been me?? :p <bandali>brettgilio, nckx, i see we have two very different requests: one gtfo and another get the fsck in here and fix it :p *bandali will catch up with emails soon <brettgilio>bandali: gtfo and make the haunt page for the formal methods working group. Hahahah <brettgilio>Btw bandali, I talked to Parra about the SML bootstrapping compiler. He might be interested in helping. <brettgilio>And janneke, I think Parra got confused by your comment on MesCC. <nckx>bandali: We might be extracting slightly more drama from the thread than was actually in it for entertainment purposes/boredom/therapy. I'm starting to feel bad for the OP, they were obviously very frustrated and that tends to end poorly in text. <janneke>brettgilio: ah was that Parra -- i really didn't get what they meant in their first message or with their reply -- other than good intentions <bandali>nckx, ah… reading that thread right now <brettgilio>janneke: I have been suggesting that maybe we use nyacc as the basis for writing the bootstrapping compiler with bandali I was talking about this with Parra and I think he just simply misunderstood what I meant by a compiler written in scheme. So it was a layer of confusion I think was my fault <brettgilio>I haven't decided for sure whether to write this in C from scratch or use nyacc and MesCC as models. <brettgilio>So the design is kind of up in the air so to speak <brettgilio>It is appealing keeping with the tradition of using scheme though. <kirisime>pkill9: It doesn't find any other channels for me either, but I'm getting a 'wrong type of argument in position 1 (expecting module): #f' instead. Trying with -e "(@ (personal-packages module) package)". <bandali>nckx, i mean i’m not particularly happy with the choice of gdm either…but i wouldn’t be *this* frustrated <brettgilio>bandali: it was mostly his hyperbolic tone that turned me off <bandali>does the manual not have an example of how to explicitly remove the default gdm from a system config? <brettgilio>bandali: we don't even need to remove gdm anymore. Adding a slim service does it for us now <brettgilio>We USED to have to remove gdm from the base services. But not anymore <pkill9>kirisime: i'm getting that too when i use that syntax, the 'no code for module' error happens when i do `-e "(use-modules (personal-packages module))"` <roptat>if I can be of any help for the fm home page... even if I'm going to be travelling in the coming days <brettgilio>roptat: will keep you updated :) what's your email? <str1ngs> I think the user is not happy with GDM being used in lightweight-desktop. are the templates available to the installer? <kirisime>pkill9: You can still build packages from other channels by name, though. ***ng0_ is now known as ng0
<pkill9>oh, you mean by referring to the package's name? <kirisime>pkill9: guix build package-name like usual. <brettgilio>roptat: actually. Just send me a message to brettg@gnu.org whenever you get this. I am going to sleep. :) <pkill9>i can do that, but I'm trying to use a function that constructs a package <bandali>brettgilio, right. i mean i personally sometimes prefer to use no DM at all <nckx>bandali: Nobody (here) seems actually *happy* with GDM, myself included, I hoped I'd made that clear. I often advocate for different defaults than what I myself prefer because those are very different things. <bandali>i mean, since we have an installer an all, it may not be a bad idea to allow choosing some other DMs as one of the steps <bandali>perhaps in certain conditions. e.g. if slim is known to not work with gnome, we don’t present it as an option if the user selects gnome as their DE <nckx>Sure. These are all very reasonable and interesting suggestions. Shame we had to pry them out of the trash fire like a raccoon with cute little fire gloves. <brettgilio>nckx: I think I may have started that trash fire. Good thing you have cute gloves. <nckx>brettgilio: Enjoy diaper times (I have have some gloves you can borrow). *brettgilio doesnt change diapers with gloves. *brettgilio is known to kill a hard drive or two in his day. <nckx>emacsomancer: I should have more accurately said that NM is part of GDM's closure. <nckx>brettgilio: If the two are in any way related you're doing something very wrong. <nckx>leoprikler: Why? (Not loaded at all, just curious.) *brettgilio prepares the ban hammer for having a dissenting opinion. <leoprikler>I'm kinda happy with GNOME 3 in general, safe for some unfortunate design choices. <oriansj>brettgilio: I'd take a conversion if someone is willing to duplicate my current i3-config to StumpWM <NieDzejkob>I don't know anything about the Common Lisp ecosystem, though :/ <leoprikler>brettgilio: I am quite fond of the GNOME aesthetic, to the point where other kinds of window decorations don't do it for me. <oriansj>well there is also guilewm for those who like guile <leoprikler>but the guile predicate sexp? (if it existed) would be sexp-p <brettgilio>oriansj: pretty sure guilewm is unmaintained and very incomplete last I looked <oriansj>alot of projects tend to stall out or die when their chief programmer "solves" their own problem *raghav-gururajan made a tiny mistake in gnome <brettgilio>oriansj: that must be why my projects never die, because I always have problems. *brettgilio is a walking basket of problems <oriansj>brettgilio: or just have high enough standards to know that what you want requires real work <oriansj>If you want what everyone else has, just do what everyone else does. If you want what no one else has, do what no one else would. <NieDzejkob>Am I weird for liking lisp, yet not being attracted to emacs? <oriansj>NieDzejkob: no, that is why spacemacs is a thing <oriansj>You are a grown up, you are free to like or not like anything and it is no one else's business unless it directly effects them. <efraim>Oh no! Now I have to remember how I did it <efraim>I probably pulled out my harddrive or bootstraped it from Debian <efraim>I'll write to the list a bit later <nckx>Hmm, my bcachefs just barfed and re-mounted read-only. <nckx>There go my hopes & dreams. <nckx>Luckily I backed them up. <roptat>raghav-gururajan, I received your email about gnome-themes-extra <roptat>does it work if you simply set GTK_UPDATE_ICON_CACHE to true, instead of true's store path? your patch looks a bit complex for nothing :) <roptat>anyway, I can push it, no problem :) <raghav-gururajan>roptat Without that argument, it overwrites icon.cache generated by another package 'adwaita-icon-theme'. <raghav-gururajan>roptat Btw, I copy pasted the argument previous used in the package 'gnome-themes-standard' which is now depracated. <pkill9>i reconfigured my system and all my icons are gone fro gnome application menu for anything installed with guix <nckx>pkill9: Have you rebooted? I've heard this can fix things. <nckx>Perhaps even logging out & back in, I forget. *raghav-gururajan feel sorry for the mishap <NieDzejkob>nckx: Just sent my vim update to guix-patches. Wanna take a look? <nckx>Now now, we welcome members of all faiths, even the wrong ones. 😉 <nckx>You're all wrong: kakoune (in Guix) has an ASCII-art Clippy. Top that. <nckx>As I wrote that, a log shifted in the fire and a great flame rose upwards, as if I had offended the gods themselves. <pkill9>raghav-gururajan: thanks, i will pull later when there are substitutes available <pkill9>oh nice, i want to switch to kakoune now *raghav-gururajan is now working on packaging gnome-menus *raghav-gururajan is planning to fix/finish gnome stack before new year's eve. New Year = New Gnome :) <nckx>alextee[m]: It's one of those ‘are you sure you need what you think you need’ things, though. glibc is an implicit build input to all things so it's usually a sign your build system is lost. <nckx>raghav-gururajan: Wonderful! <alextee[m]>hmmm searching for "dl" in pkgconfig still doesn't show anything <leoprikler>I don't think we can get gnome 3.34 without another round of c-u <nckx>(For all of you worrying: Clippy doesn't actually pop up saying ‘it seems like you're writing an init system’ every 5 minutes, it's just the initial help screen.) <NieDzejkob>how do I run guix system reconfigure with the guix from the repo, such that my channel settings are also respected? <nckx>And when you type a :-something. <NieDzejkob>(I need to use my modified guix package definition and nonguix...) <nckx>leoprikler: You made me try it. Well played. <raghav-gururajan>Folks! I have a doubt. Will the be any problems if I declare something both as system package and system service under system config. For example, If I decalre both tor package and tor service. <nckx>NieDzejkob: I 'solve’ this by adding file:///home/nckx/guix as the URL for my ‘guix’ channel, then commiting my changes before pulling, but I don't know if there's a more straightforward (& faster) way. This works for me. <nckx>raghav-gururajan: No. You'll just have the ‘tor’ command available as well as the tor service running in the background. They are still completely separate. <leoprikler>raghav-gururajan: only if the packages conflict in some weird way (e.g. same version, different inputs) <nckx>raghav-gururajan: This actually makes a lot of sense in many cases. If you run the somethingd service and install somethingctl in your user profile, the two can go out of sync. If you put Something in your system packages and use its somethingctl, that can't happen. <nckx>But yeah, as leoprikler implies, you're on your own if you try to do something ‘clever’. <nckx>…but then that'l already the case 🙂 <NieDzejkob>What type of packages should you put in your system packages anyway? <nckx>raghav-gururajan, NieDzejkob: That's my main use for system (packages …). Stuff that needs to talk to system services. <nckx>Then things like mosh & rsync & nss-certs that I want installed for all users, no matter what, and don't care about their bleeding-edgedness. <raghav-gururajan>dbus package + dbus service. I might modify the service to generate a diff config. Would the package's service file again generate config file and overwrites the other??? <NieDzejkob>Hmm, my vim patch hasn't appeared in the mailinglist archives yet. Should I be worried? <nckx>raghav-gururajan: I'm not quite sure what you mean. By ‘service file’ you mean (dbus) .service file, yes? <nckx>NieDzejkob: First patch? <nckx>NieDzejkob: I'll see if you're stuck in moderation. <nckx>NieDzejkob: You sent it to guix-patches@gnu.org? <raghav-gururajan>NieDzejkob You should have got an automated response from debbugs.gnu.org with the bug number. <nckx>raghav-gururajan: Correct, but new posters get put in a moderation queue for manual approval. <nckx>This queue is currently empty. <nckx>This has happened before, maybe some mail server (eggs?) is slow. There's a super sekrit second moderation queue @gnu.org? I don't really know these things, bandali knows these things. <bandali>NieDzejkob, nckx, yeah you’d have to wait for manual approval if it’s your first patch <nckx>raghav-gururajan: I'm not authoritative on dbus. I wouldn't expect system packages to override dbus settings from system services. <nckx>raghav-gururajan: The key phrase being ‘not authoritative’ 😉 I.e. mah butt, I am speaking from it. I'd just not worry too much until you actually see real issues in practice. <bandali>NieDzejkob, yes, you just need to wait now :) <nckx>bandali: Ah! Thank you, and sorry for not finding that myself. <bandali>also, i think the first link i posted mentions that when a list uses debbugs, there’s in effect only one moderation queue (debbugs-submit) rather than the list itself *nckx now returns to their initial confused state. Thanks Obama. <nckx>I've definitely approved patches/bugs before. <nckx>oh well never mind all is insignificant dust in the end <nckx>Joke's on you. I always was. <nckx>I just want to ride into the abyss in style, running GNU. <NieDzejkob>so I think I messed up my setuid-programs configuration somehow, and when I ran reconfigure it errored with <NieDzejkob>guix system: error: copy-file: No such file or directory: "/run/setuid-programs/authproto_pam" <NieDzejkob>Does this mean guix failed mid-generation-switch? <NieDzejkob>logged in as root on a vt, ran a roll-back, still empty <pkill9>raghav-gururajan: it hasn't fixed it :/ <NieDzejkob>whew, I commented out the (setuid-programs ...) lines and ran another reconfigure and now it works again, but I think I just encountered a serious bug <pkill9>i have reconfigured with the new commit and rebooted <raghav-gururajan>pkill9 Oh then it must be something else. I'll have look into it and will do my best. <pkill9>so are you getting the same issue? <NieDzejkob>it seems I ran this on a commit from Dec 26 13:10 (a9650f), will try on latest master <nckx>NieDzejkob: I agree, that's bad behaviour, please file a bug if it isn't fixed. <nckx>Is there a trick to mount the partitions we care about in the installer, not the fake ones? Some way to dangle a shiny offset in front of the kernel & say ‘look here’? <nckx>NieDzejkob: The Guix installer is a ‘hybrid’ image, which means it's either a (funky) GPT partition or a (weird) iso9660 file system or a (spooky) MacOS… thing, depending on who looks at it. <nckx>My Guix System currently chooses to see the MacOS layout, I want it to use one of the many other contradictory partition tables instead. <nckx>X/Y time: I'm actually trying to figure out why my new (custom) installer won't boot. When I select ‘USB HDD’ in my UEFI boot menu, computer says no. <nckx>The official installer is too big for my 2G USB drive so I can't test it. <nckx>And no, no bigger drives here. <NieDzejkob>When I made an installer with `guix system disk-image /path/to/config.scm/or/whatever`, it worked without trouble <nckx>NieDzejkob: Orly? Without --file-system-type=iso9660? <nckx>I tried that first, didn't work either. <nckx>But if it worked for you I'll drop it again, then I can at least debug something that doesn't frighten my tools. <nckx>(For you shouting along at home, ‘use a VM!!!’, haha that's not an option either, such fun!) <NieDzejkob>also: why is the installation image this big anyway? <str1ngs>probably because you can boot the iso in a vm already <str1ngs>it's kinda redundant. and you can create system vm's as it is <nckx>I am an idiot. NieDzejkob <nckx>*: because I'm so used to having a machine that breaks KVM that I'm still not used to it working. <nckx>However, as str1ngs says, it won't help me that much, I think. <NieDzejkob>KVM being broken also means no QEMU, VirtualBox, etc, right? <str1ngs>NieDzejkob: also generating a iso is only useful if you need to use that on another machine. maybe you know this already <nckx>This baby KVMs just fine, whee. <nckx>NieDzejkob: Yes. Maybe bochs (oh those were the days) but the speed would be very not-great. <nckx>You are presented with a puzzle. The answer is 2,000,000,000 binary digits long. There are multiple correct answers, but the only way to found out which is to present your answer to the machine. Then the machine will say one word: ‘correct’ or ‘incorrect’. <nckx>This is consumer firmware. <nckx>Whoever guessed ‘the VM will boot into a black screen and do nothing’ wins a pony. <nckx>‘guix pack’ doesn't support store paths, only packages. Is there a reason for that? <nckx>My guix size | cut | scp hack isn't quite as performant 🙂 <NieDzejkob>hmm, the contributing section of the manual doesn't seem to explain how to report bugs properly <null_radix[m]>yeah it's kinda confusing, esp coming from something like github <nckx>NieDzejkob: No, it's currently only on the Web site, the manual only covers patches. <nckx>I'd ask you to file a bug or submit a patch… <nckx>You can report bugs by sending your report to bug-guix@gnu.org. <nckx>null_radix[m]: What's confusing? <nckx>The manual only mentions bug-guix in passing, in the Running the Test Suite section. That could definitely be fleshed out into its own section & linked from there. <gnutec>Can I use F2FS instead FAT in a Pen Drive or SD Card. I format it but couldn't copy anything to device. *kmicu is so happy for checking MLs only once per day xD <Gooberpatrol66>I added a package to a channel but when I try to install it I get "unknown package". Is there some special command syntax for installing packages from channels? <nckx>kmicu: I should force myself to do that. <NieDzejkob>sent a bug regarding the setuid problem, let's see if that arrives sooner (the vim patch still didn't, FWIW) <nckx>gnutec: Could you give us more information? Guix does provide the f2fs kernel driver. <null_radix[m]>nckx: tracking the issue, issues.guix does help. and I do use that. but then when patches get sent to the issue, it becomes unreadable <gnutec>nckx, I use guix install f2fs-tools then gparted to format the device. <gnutec>I put the SD Card format with f2fs in my smartphone Galaxy J7 Prime but the android doesn't identify the file system. <null_radix[m]>also, I like sending in patches as attachments all in one email, instead of using git sendmail. but I'm not sure if it matters <nckx>However, I'm not running the Guix kernel. However, it also provides the f2fs module. <nckx>gnutec: Ah, that sounds like a problem with Android/f2fs-tools. <nckx>null_radix[m]: Is that link meant as an example of an unreadable patch? Because all I see is pretty mark-up. Or do you mean you can't read the prose forest through the patch trees? <nckx>null_radix[m]: I prefer one patch per mail, I guess it's a matter of taste. I don't think the mailing list cares, unless you've noticed otherwise. <nckx>I don't use issues.guix though, because every time I think of trying it again, it's down. <null_radix[m]>> null_radix: Is that link meant as an example of an unreadable patch? Because all I see is pretty mark-up. Or do you mean you can't read the prose forest through the patch trees? <null_radix[m]>yeah I submitted like 5 versions of a patch and I get lost looking that link if I want to look at a particular version <nckx>NieDzejkob: I'm very happy to hear that. <null_radix[m]>> I don't use issues.guix though, because every time I think of trying it again, it's down. <nckx>null_radix[m]: OK, to me it just looks pretty & GitHubby but I don't actually use it & don't actually like GitHub, so you're probably right. <null_radix[m]>nckx: that's a lot of stuff to Learn, esp when someone doesn't known emacs, the web interface is sorta the lowest common denominator, but in this case is not up to speed yet I think <gnutec>But I couldn't copy anything in my notebook with Guix System too. Maybe a problem with f2fs-tools/gparted? I know that FAT has limit of 4GB of file size. <NieDzejkob>Have you mentioned what error are you getting yet? <nckx>null_radix[m]: I more or less agree. Mumi (issues.guix) is a formidable improvement from debbugs for the casual (sure: GitHub) user but it's all the work of a single heavily-overworked person. It's really ‘alpha’. <nckx>str1ngs: That name rings a bell, I think someone else suggested it too, unless that was you. <str1ngs>it was probably me. I've have a TODO to create a guix package. but it uses stack some GHC thing which seems counter guix. <nckx>gnutec: You need to give us more specific information. I pasted my attempt at creating & using f2fs and it worked fine. <str1ngs>there is still a learning curve with radicle but it would be install radicle. then use rad commands <nckx>gnutec: Is there a specific reason you mention f2fs-tools/gparted? They are not involved at all in mounting and copying files. <nckx>str1ngs: ‘counter guix’: All Guile, all the time is very Guix but unless we get a sudden influx of talented Guile Web devs I don't think it's realistic *if* we basically fork debbugs + Savannah. I think issues.guix was a reality check in that regard. <str1ngs>nckx: the context was stack a ghc build tools seems counter guix. <nckx>So I don't think GHC should be rejected outright, although there might be other reasons that Radicle isn't a good fit for us. <str1ngs>radicle is just a too/program the key features which is guix is decentralization ex ipfs which might compliment the future ifps substitute support <str1ngs>none of that probably made sense. what I meant is the features of the radicale tool compliments the guix project. even if the language implementation does not. <gnutec>nckx: Yeh! I don't try to copy with the "cp". I'll try again next time and see what happen. <nckx>gnutec: Whatever you do, cp or drag & drop, please *post errors*. You won't get help with ‘it doesn't work’. <nckx>(If you don't get errors but your files just disappear, that's fine, but say so.) <nckx>str1ngs: So, as about most things, I know nothing about GHC from a user perspective. Would this mean everyone has to download gigabytes of Haskell just to report a bug? <str1ngs>nckx: no I don't think so. Haskell is statically compiled so users would install a substitute <str1ngs>though GHC has a large foot print for compilation so hard to say until I research the package declaration more <nckx>str1ngs: It didn't want to scroll beyond ‘Installation & setup’ in IceCat. <str1ngs>nckx I think someone with that has package GHC programs before would know better. at least until I have more time to create a package <str1ngs>particular that patch. which seems fine, but breaks g-golf <nckx>str1ngs: Have you used it in practice and/or know of any projects that do? <str1ngs>nckx: not as of yet, I've only looked at it from a theoretical stand point. I planned to create a guix package then experiment with one of my own projects. maybe nomad <KE0VVT>Can I run Guix System on my Chromebook? <str1ngs>I'm quite familiar with IPFS though one of the reason I found radicle interesting to begin with <nckx>KE0VVT: I think it depends on the model. I know vagrantc (not here ATM) got it to work on their ‘veyron’, whatever that designates 🙂 <nckx>str1ngs: That sounds very neat. <str1ngs>an alternative approach might be to use git-remote-ipld or git-remote-ipfs for distributed channels. but radicle seems nice since it has p2p issues and code review combined <KE0VVT>nckx: I have a CELES (Samsung Chromebook 3, Braswell). <gnutec>KE0VVT: Don't forget to return the results. Write in somewhere in the internet. <gnutec>KE0VVT: Braswell? Where you from? <nckx>KE0VVT: I don't know anything about them myself, sorry. Just that the answer isn't a simple yes or no. But since it's x86 you can try booting the installer (ARM requires more work even on supported systems). <nckx>KE0VVT: Also, don't hesitate to ask on help-guix@gnu.org. Not everyone uses IRC. <null_radix[m]><nckx "null_radix: I more or less agree"> nckx: yep, I might see if I can help out after getting this recursive rust importer stuff done <null_radix[m]>I was thinking it would be cool if it was easy to run locally too <str1ngs>is it possible to remove manual-database from %default-profile-hooks at runtime? <str1ngs>what is it using for it's p2p backend? <str1ngs>I think ipfs would be better because there is some idea of using ipfs for substitues in nix and guix <str1ngs>dat is not nice, but I would never use it. I think javascript make for a poor reference language <null_radix[m]>> I think ipfs would be better because there is some idea of using ipfs for substitues in nix and guix <str1ngs>though in theory this all could be possible with gnunet as well <str1ngs>but everything would need to be created from scratch. gnunet has the lower level components though <str1ngs>null_radix[m]: how user friendly was gitssb? <gnutec>KE0VVT: Braswell is a CPU made to Latin American market. They use Haswell, that is the best version of Intel. But Is so good that maybe Intel expand it. <gnutec>4 hours? To download the ISO or install the system? <nckx>Still a great story when there are no pedantic fact-checkers around 😛 ***apteryx_ is now known as apteryx
<nckx>PotentialUser-52: If nobody here can help you, consider sending a mail to help-guix@gnu.org as well. <gnutec>nckx: Ok! Anyway. My next CPU will be a Ryzen 3. :) <oriansj>PotentialUser-52: well generally the latest version of xmonad is supposed to use XDG_CONFIG_HOME/xmonad <PotentialUser-52>oriansj: so I should set that in my .bash_profile? I'll give that a shot <oriansj>which would be ~/.config/ by default <oriansj>you can also set XMONAD_CONFIG_HOME in your .bash_profile <nckx>Ah, nice gotcha wording: ‘If ~/.xmonad exists and none of the others do [which they almost certainly will, or even better, be created later so your xmonad stops working after a reboot]’.