<nckx>And then (at night) come the Guile escapes, so you end up with "\\(".
<NieDzejkob>OH, thanks, that probably saved me a build attempt
<NieDzejkob>(I would've probably tried to milk your parenthetical for humour (since it's 15 minutes past midnight in my timezone), if it weren't for the fact that I'm bad at humour when it's 15 minutes past midnight)
<NieDzejkob>oh, and if you're wondering, the test has been failing ever since it was added in patch 8.1.1231
<nckx>Guix builds are self-contained, you can't influence the build environment state by running a command and retrying, unless a Rust fix was actually pushed to master recently (and you can guix pull && guix build rust again).
<kelsoo>I have used Dragora2 for 6 years but it's to old and unsupported. Dragora3 it not ready for normal users yet but I need libreoffice and a big browser etc. Checking out other systemd free systems in the mean time
<jlicht>if not, it is the guix git repo that'll have to adapt to systemd ;-)
<DootNoot>Hi everyone i've been having problems with watching youtube videos on any of my browsers on guix. They're all based on gtk-webkit. I couldn't find any information on it for any specific browser so I just wanna check if this is a guix problem or someting. has anyone else had this problem?
<kelsoo>Hi guix. Afraid I still can't get icecat to build. 32bit rust runs through all versions fron 19-37 and fails
<NieDzejkob>I'm gonna make a package build during guix package fail on purpose and see what it outputs for me
<NieDzejkob>nckx: Since adding tzdata-for-tests didn't work, I decided to make a little test package, and the results are surprising. I think adding the package doesn't make programs detect the timezone data: https://hastebin.com/kotujuzaku.txt
<NieDzejkob>(compiling the program outside of guix makes the TZ=EST ./tz commands' output vary
<DootNoot>NieDzejkob: next is really nice I think. qutebrowser allso (though it's borked now since QTWebEngine's not in the repos). And i allso quite like most of the webengine/webkit browsers a lot (I'm using epiphany right now). while i don dislike icecat for any reason it's been a bit buggy for me (mostly with fonts and stuff) and I think that some of the
<DootNoot> changes it does to firefox kind of defeats the purpouse of using firefox, that is, a browser with lots of extensions that just works. I allso dislike the numerous default addons that you cant remove, just disable, eg. there's one whose entire descriptions is in russian that i dont know what it does and cant remove
<bgardner>DootNoot: That's weird. I use Icecat and don't see the addon matching your description
<bgardner>So is mine, but I still get locale errors. Something isn't 100% yet.
<DootNoot>Yea probably. though i still dislike the fact that icecat even includes these wacky addons without functioning homepages and no way to remove them. I actually just want good ol vanilla firefox (maybe sans the nonfree trademarked stuff) or at least functioning webkit/qtwebengine :( i'll mabe get around to packaging firefox for myself soon
<nckx>DootNoot: The main issue with vanilla FF from our PoV is that it links directly to a boundless number of non-free add-ons through its main menu. The trademark stuff is problematic but not quite as… offensive.
<NieDzejkob>nckx: Yes. The last one does differential testing by comparing terminal "screenshots", and the test fails because the screenshot contains the path of bash, which is obviously not /bin/sh on guix. Do you think skipping this test it reasonable?
<brettgilio>nckx: I sent an email response on the list to the jone person asking for the topic to be dropped as all of the relevant points have been addressed and are not something guix is able to help with directly
<NieDzejkob>Re: Firefox. I was considering packaging iceweasel - I assume this would "fix" the concerns of both DootNoot and nckx here
<nckx>NieDzejkob: I do, if it can't be trivially fixed by substituting "/bin/sh" with (which "bash") in the ‘golden’ copy as well. For example if it uses hashes, or if it somehow messes up the screen layout with its big-assedness. Your call.
<kirisime>Does guix use the git-minimal package for git-fetch? It gets built before my issue with it happens.
<nckx>brettgilio: Thank you. I saw they replied, but can't muster the energy to open it. A bit silly, but if I was sooper at the peeple stuff I wouldn't be here and it's holiday times, dammit.
<nckx>DootNoot, NieDzejkob: IceWeasel *was* IceCat. IceWeasel was *also* an unrelated (??) Debian spin of FireFox IIRC. It's a mess. It's a name that should be avoided and yet it's still everywhere, and people continue ‘wanting IceWeasel’.
<nckx>Always much fun figuring out what they mean by that.
<NieDzejkob>nckx: There's also the option of making a /bin/sh symlink during tests, is that reasonable? Also, I noticed that the test patches that were the before are no longer necessary, should I remove them?
<nckx>NieDzejkob: - Not possible, I'm afraid. The build environment isn't that mutable (by design). - Yes please!
<nckx>brettgilio: OK, that wasn't as bad as I feared, just completely missing the point (…of Guix itself, one might even say). Thanks for responding.
<brettgilio>nckx: agreed. Pretty much nothing more we can do.
<pinoaffe>is there a way to install a crosscompiler toolchain (for riscv) on guix?
*nckx wonders which distribution Jone previously used with defaults they 100% agreed with out of the box. I've never found mine.
<janneke>ah, he did not reply, i just heard him say that often
<janneke>the choice between slim and gdm is an impossible one, afaic
<janneke>and "you can change anything" can be a slippery slope
<janneke>running gdm sometimes gives me problems with my audio, no idea how to report that
<nckx>janneke: Ah 🙂 I haven't, but I 100% agree & can get worked up over bad defaults myself. But that's more about ‘nonsensical’ or contradictory defaults (i.e. ‘everyone knows you should tweak bar after installing foo, but we won't change the default because it breaks PDP-7s’). But this here is a matter of preference.
<janneke>as a user i dislike the gdm default; as a developer i dislike unmantained software as a default
*janneke also wonders at times if it really is "their imac" if they are not aware of all marketing that it is doing in their name
<nckx>janneke: This is dangerously sheddy territorry, but I read ‘good defaults matter’ first & foremost as ‘you get a well-integrated system out of the box, you're not sent straight to the boiler room unless *you* so choose’. Us bein' hackers it's the first thing we do, but I honestly don't think we force all users to. GDM is intended to integrate nicely AFAIK, so it's a reasonable choice. Maybe not in a minimal- template but let's admit that's t
<nckx>he most contentious & subjective word ever anyway.
<nckx>raghav-gururajan: I agree with my interpretation of that (😛), which is ‘the distro should install a usable system right out of the box, it should not expect me to have my dotfiles handy to actually use it.’ It might install a DM I hate, a DE I hate, & crap I don't need (all true of Guix) but I could install it in an emergency and get work done. If so, they are the *right* defaults, and yet I don't *like* any of them. Magic! I think not separating t
<brettgilio>And janneke, I think Parra got confused by your comment on MesCC.
<nckx>bandali: We might be extracting slightly more drama from the thread than was actually in it for entertainment purposes/boredom/therapy. I'm starting to feel bad for the OP, they were obviously very frustrated and that tends to end poorly in text.
<brettgilio>janneke: I have been suggesting that maybe we use nyacc as the basis for writing the bootstrapping compiler with bandali I was talking about this with Parra and I think he just simply misunderstood what I meant by a compiler written in scheme. So it was a layer of confusion I think was my fault
<brettgilio>I haven't decided for sure whether to write this in C from scratch or use nyacc and MesCC as models.
<brettgilio>So the design is kind of up in the air so to speak
<brettgilio>It is appealing keeping with the tradition of using scheme though.
<kirisime>pkill9: It doesn't find any other channels for me either, but I'm getting a 'wrong type of argument in position 1 (expecting module): #f' instead. Trying with -e "(@ (personal-packages module) package)".
<bandali>nckx, i mean i’m not particularly happy with the choice of gdm either…but i wouldn’t be *this* frustrated
<brettgilio>bandali: it was mostly his hyperbolic tone that turned me off
<bandali>does the manual not have an example of how to explicitly remove the default gdm from a system config?
<nckx>bandali: Nobody (here) seems actually *happy* with GDM, myself included, I hoped I'd made that clear. I often advocate for different defaults than what I myself prefer because those are very different things.
<raghav-gururajan>Folks! I have a doubt. Will the be any problems if I declare something both as system package and system service under system config. For example, If I decalre both tor package and tor service.
<nckx>NieDzejkob: I 'solve’ this by adding file:///home/nckx/guix as the URL for my ‘guix’ channel, then commiting my changes before pulling, but I don't know if there's a more straightforward (& faster) way. This works for me.
<nckx>raghav-gururajan: No. You'll just have the ‘tor’ command available as well as the tor service running in the background. They are still completely separate.
<leoprikler>raghav-gururajan: only if the packages conflict in some weird way (e.g. same version, different inputs)
<nckx>raghav-gururajan: This actually makes a lot of sense in many cases. If you run the somethingd service and install somethingctl in your user profile, the two can go out of sync. If you put Something in your system packages and use its somethingctl, that can't happen.
<nckx>But yeah, as leoprikler implies, you're on your own if you try to do something ‘clever’.
<nckx>NieDzejkob: Yes. Maybe bochs (oh those were the days) but the speed would be very not-great.
<nckx>You are presented with a puzzle. The answer is 2,000,000,000 binary digits long. There are multiple correct answers, but the only way to found out which is to present your answer to the machine. Then the machine will say one word: ‘correct’ or ‘incorrect’.
<NieDzejkob>Have you mentioned what error are you getting yet?
<nckx>null_radix[m]: I more or less agree. Mumi (issues.guix) is a formidable improvement from debbugs for the casual (sure: GitHub) user but it's all the work of a single heavily-overworked person. It's really ‘alpha’.
<str1ngs>there is still a learning curve with radicle but it would be install radicle. then use rad commands
<nckx>gnutec: Is there a specific reason you mention f2fs-tools/gparted? They are not involved at all in mounting and copying files.
<nckx>str1ngs: ‘counter guix’: All Guile, all the time is very Guix but unless we get a sudden influx of talented Guile Web devs I don't think it's realistic *if* we basically fork debbugs + Savannah. I think issues.guix was a reality check in that regard.
<str1ngs>nckx: the context was stack a ghc build tools seems counter guix.
<nckx>So I don't think GHC should be rejected outright, although there might be other reasons that Radicle isn't a good fit for us.
<nckx>KE0VVT: I don't know anything about them myself, sorry. Just that the answer isn't a simple yes or no. But since it's x86 you can try booting the installer (ARM requires more work even on supported systems).
<nckx>KE0VVT: Also, don't hesitate to ask on firstname.lastname@example.org. Not everyone uses IRC.
<null_radix[m]><nckx "null_radix: I more or less agree"> nckx: yep, I might see if I can help out after getting this recursive rust importer stuff done
<null_radix[m]>I was thinking it would be cool if it was easy to run locally too
<str1ngs>is it possible to remove manual-database from %default-profile-hooks at runtime?