<rekado_>running it under strace or removing “--foreground” fixes it.
<brendyyn>nckx: Turns out I'm stupid. My system might never have broken in the first place. You see there is this 120GiB msata drive in my laptop that broke a long time ago and became invisible. no idea why. anyway sometimes it magically comes back and appears undear fdisk. This time somehow the boot order changed in the bios and i was actually booting from a remenant grub on that drive. no wondering reconfiguring didn't
<efraim>ugh I just want to separate all the rust packages into hundreds of sources and tens of packages and have to do dependency resolution by hand based on what it wants at build time. Or based on the Cargo.lock file.
<truby>I'm trying to add a configure option to a package by inheriting from it, is there an easy way to just change the configure-flags without copying over the whole of the arguments field when inheriting? I tried `(acons #:configure-flags ... package-arguments)` but that doesn't seem to work
<nckx>truby: There is. See fftw-openmpi for a simple example.
<nckx>No GDB (would GDB ‘see’ the Guile programme or just the interpreter state)? No guile --listen=1337 code whispering? Damn. I was hoping for some insight into the wizarding world.
<nckx>g_bor: [barging in without context] Have you looked into the pvpanic driver?
<nckx>Not that I don't appreciate the baroque, er, beauty of that watchdog hack.
<g_bor>nckx: ok, I will have a look. I noticed that it exists, what caught my eye on the other approach is that it is much better documented.
<g_bor>nckx: otherwise the method of catching the event is the same.
<g_bor>And it looks like we are missing only that.
<g_bor>i.e. we are expecting the qemu to exit failure, but it sends a qmp event instead, and the exits success.
<g_bor>The bug where this comes up is when a disk-image is created with too low ram, a corrupt image is created, and a success is returned.
<pinoaffe>when I run `guix pull`, it says guix pull: error: symlink: File exists: "/var/guix/profiles/per-user/pino/current-guix"
<nckx>g_bor: Thanks for working on a fix! I'm only worried that the watchdog approach will cause slow machines (amplified by the fact that KVM on low-end machines seems disproportionately slower) to time out.
<pinoaffe>nckx: aight, might've forgotten a -E at some point
<pinoaffe>removing it (and chowning some cached git files to my user account) seems to have done the trick
<nckx>pinoaffe: Right! I forgot about .cache/guix (I just removed it). Glad it worked out 🙂
<Alpha66>Hello, I'm having a problem with 'guix system reconfigure /etc/config.scm'
<roptat>hi Alpha66! I don't necessarily have a lot of time to spare, but can you tell us more about the problem you have, and share your configuration, for instance on paste.debian.net?
<Alpha66>Hello roptat! It goes through the whole reconfigure procedure, but fails at the end after making the new system current. Here's the last 3 lines:
<Alpha66>'making '/gnu/store/[hash]-system' the current system...'
<Alpha66>'setting up setuid programs in '/run/setuid-programs'...'
<Alpha66>'guix system: error: copy-file: No such file or directory: "/run/setuid-programs/freqset" '
<Alpha66>If I reboot, there's a new entry in GRUB for the system, which is the new default, and nothing seems to be out of order. Is this going to be a problem for me?
<Alpha66>I'm a bit short on time, too; so I'll hold off on the configuration for now. There's nothing special in it, it's produced by the graphical installer 1.0.1.
<roptat>Alpha66, there's nothing coming to mind to explain that right now... if nobody here can help you, can you email firstname.lastname@example.org? I don't think this is very serious, because it happens after creating the new generation of the system
<roptat>probably some programs that are supposed to be setuid will not be, but that's all
<jmarciano>alright, do you have experience how long will process take if I need X.org ? It will start downloading right? Like how much of data? 1 GB?
<brendyyn>i think you would have to move existing operating system files, so that guix doesnt conflict when it tries to install the bootloader for example
<brendyyn>jmarciano: it generally downloads quite a lot and takes a bit of time. you may prefer to start by defininng a command-line only basic system first so you can get it working, then after rebooting, try setting up X and all that
<nckx>What Guix calls coin3D@4.0.0 insn't actually 4.0.0; it's 3.9.9-dev… (or 4.0.0-rc1234… if you will) and changes every time someone pushes a new commit. Then the hash changes and the build breaks. Does that clarify?
<quiliro>I am analysing ....the file you mention has sep 17 as date
<nckx>quiliro: Linking to URLs like gnu.org/stuff/gcc-9.1.tar.gz is fine because they are supposed to be finished, frozen in time. The person who packaged coin3D was presumably unaware that ‘4.0.0’ is still in the future, and that https://bitbucket.org/Coin3D/coin/downloads/coin-4.0.0-src.zip points to an unstable tarball that keeps changing.
<jmarciano>"Yet, we must also acknowledge that Stallman’s behavior over the years has undermined a core value of the GNU project: the empowerment of all computer users. GNU is not fulfilling its mission when the behavior of its leader alienates a large part of those we want to reach out to." -- that is generalization and as such also not accurate. Immature people write generalizations. Responsible people use facts, and I think there is
<quiliro>but if i do not agree with your rules you will kick me out because i will not follow them
<nckx>quiliro: That's not what censorship means. They were being needlessly agressive and insulting (their last message was them asking to be taken out, civodul obliged). Nobody will ever be kicked from #guix because they disagree with anyone.
<roptat>if you act against the rules, we will kick you
<civodul>this has been one of my favorite topics lately :-)
<nckx>civodul: I think nobody disagrees & somebody just needs to do it (hintery hint).
<brendyyn>is there a package definition for building guile from git. i tried just changing the origin from guile-next but it fails,so i guess it needs to have some difference from using the tarball?
<quiliro>If someone enters your house and they use it for several years and take advantage of it, they should not kick you out of your own house and they should not kick out someone that defends you even if that person insults them....
<nckx>It's not that insults make people feel bad about themselves (that implies there's something about themselves to feel bad about). It's that holding adults to a minimum adult standard of ‘don't hurl insults’ is not unreasonable. It's the lowest possible bar.
<quiliro>I think that it is very ungrateful to make that statement
<rekado_>quiliro: it is not surprising that a person’s set of actions over a long life will have positive and negative results.
<rekado_>quiliro: Richard has done an enormous amount of good; this is undeniable in my opinion.
<quiliro>in the mean time, i will remove guix from all my machines
<nckx>quiliro: If you oppose censorship (as do I), consider that perhaps a) these opinions are as genuine and thought-out as your own (these are GNU maintainers) b) they have a right to publish it without being forced to rephrase it.
<quiliro>I will not retire from gnu...just from signer's projects...and convince all my contacts too
<civodul>bavier: actually maintainers do not have regular meetings, which is probably unfortunate
<rekado_>quiliro: it is ironic and sad that your response to a call for a better GNU results in your sabotage of free software that embodies Richard’s ideals.
<quiliro>i do not use gnu because it is better or cheap...i use it to promote good deeds...
<civodul>bavier: there's a couple of private mailing lists where all maintainers are subscribed, and which is where discussion happens
<brendyyn>I see. the guile repo has a bootstrap directory and it tries to execute that..
<civodul>bavier: it's unfortunate that they're private, it's one of the things we failed to change
<rekado_>brendyyn: oh. That’s the gnu-build-system’s “bootstrap” phase trying to be smart…
<nckx>quiliro: That applies to everyone here. Guix is neither better nor cheap yet; everyone here is by definition an idealist.
<rekado_>it tries to call a “bootstrap” script if it exists.
<rekado_>(guess it should check that this is really a script)
<bavier>civodul: ah ok, that's just as good; I had thought I'd seen mention of maintainer's meetings at some of the GNU conferences
<rekado_>brendyyn: I know it’s not really helping you achieve your goal right now, but would you be willing to send a patch to the gnu-build-system some time later to add a check before executing a directory named “bootstap”?
<roptat>bavier, there's the annual GNU Hackers Metting
<rekado_>bavier: there’s a GNU Hacker’s Meeting, but it’s more like a show and tell
<roptat>I thought it would be published on every signing project?
<nckx>quiliro: Exactly because ideas are greater (and must be) than one person. This is the whole point of the letter, and a feeling many (like me) share: software freedom is too important to be tied so closely tied to rms and his fallibility.
<quiliro>stallman has allienated millions of users of free software by visiting them consttantly in their countries and giving activists and students gratis access to his conferences (including all genders recently discovered)
<brendyyn>nckx: what do you mean? is there a limit to that number too
<quiliro>This undermines the GNU project?: "Future Change Warning: Proposed Federal censorship regulations may prohibit us from giving you information about the possibility of calling this function. We would be required to say that this is not an acceptable way of terminating a program."
<roptat>lots of women, when the core values are to empower *everyone*
<jmarciano>Can I get answer? Just write to email@example.com even later, if anybody of you remembers at least ONE FACT that clearly shows how "Stallman's behavior over years undermined core values of GNU project".
<nckx>jmarciano: You have been linked to many. A simple Web search will find more.
<civodul>jmarciano: we answered, and perhaps you disagree, or perhaps you'd like to rehash the events we're referring to
<civodul>but let's not do that, not on this channel
<jmarciano>nkcx: give me one fact. Don't say simple search, I did not find how "Stallman's behavior over yearsundermined core values of GNU project" -- quite contrary I found everything else. So I am genuinely trying to understand here. And you are making it hard.
<civodul>on the glibc thing alone, there's at least one LWN article and very long public threads
<jmarciano>civodul: so is that ALL what you had to say about the facts that show how "Stallman's behavior over yearsundermined core values of GNU project" -- basically the answer is "glibc abort joke" that scared many people away from GNU project, but without knowing the number of people and without knowing how them being scared undermined core values of GNU project? Is that the fact that you state?
<civodul>that's again not the tone we want to see on this channel
<civodul>jmarciano: the answer is not "glibc abort joke", read again what i wrote
<civodul>and please, stop repeating the same thing
<quiliro>i just read the twitter post....shee says that richard was looking at her boobs
<civodul>also, even if you disagree, please remember that everyone who signed has a long history with GNU and as maintainers
<jmarciano>Look people I am not sure what you are doing. I am genuinely looking for the answer ont that statement, ONE FACT, just one, that will clearly show how "Stallman's behavior over years undermined core values of GNU project". I would like to go back and kindly ask, but I cannot. May I get the answer?
<superkuh>You guys are actually buying into this media circus?
<quiliro>the first thing to de-escalate the situation is to avoid censorship (or as you might want to call it; moderation)
<nckx>quiliro: The whole point of a moderated channel is that you can't /ignore people you'd like to. I think Freenode even frowns upon it, but whatever. I'd like to sometimes, but no, I have to parse everything ;-)
<bandali>quiliro, we all did try to calm them/things down though, that was a last resort
<brendyyn>Is there any difference between (and (file-exists? file) (not (file-is-directory? file)), AND simply (not (file-is-directory? file)) ?
<jmarciano>sorry I did not "flood" I have sent one line.
<jmarciano>Maybe your software is breaking one line into multiple lines, I do not know.
<quiliro>nckx: you can ignore a buffer from that person...
<nckx>quiliro: It's not censorship, because it has nothing to do with their opinion. Only their behaviour. You disagree, you're here, you're about as far from moderation as can be.
<jmarciano>consider if your "joint statements" are doing more harm than good
<bandali>jmarciano, fwiw, i received your message in ERC as multiple lines
<jmarciano>bandali: I use jabber in Emacs, and I see long lines just as mine, and not as multiple lines. Using M-x irc
<nckx>jmarciano: They were *sent* as multiple lines; your client may have split them but you're still responsible for what you send.
<bandali>i guess that happens with overly long messages
<nckx>jmarciano: I've kicked people before for accidental flooding (which I have no reason to believe yours wasn't at this point), it's really not a moral judgement. It's a quick technical fix.
<quiliro>"Censorship is the suppression of speech, public communication, or other information, on the basis that such material is considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, or "inconvenient". Censorship can be conducted by a government, private institutions, and corporations."
<jmarciano>well because that was second time that I tried to put it, after copy, it got into multiple lines. But first time it was not possible to send it. Because civodul kicked me out.
<jmarciano>how about removing that disgraceful statement that is contrary to good behavior policy of Guix?
<nckx>jmarciano: Meditate on why that was and try not to do it again.
<nckx>jmarciano: I can only see what I see, I hope we can agree on at least that.
<jmarciano>But that is all not the point. The point is generalization versus specific facts, which I did not get not even one, and I truly do not understand, and truly searching for answer. One of the 18 judas will know it.
***nckx changes topic to 'GNU Guix | 1.0.1 is out! get it at https://guix.gnu.org | your nick must be registered to talk | videos: https://guix.gnu.org/blog/tags/talks/ | bugs and patches: https://issues.guix.gnu.org | paste: https://paste.debian.net | Guix in high-performance computing: https://hpc.guix.info | This channel is logged: http://logs.guix.gnu.org/'
<bavier>rushsteve1: well, maybe once I've got a proper parser going the "import" part won't be too difficult
<nckx>rushsteve1: It's difficult in that you're getting data from very different kinds of sources, each upstream does things very differently (even the notion of ‘packages’, or ‘names’, or ‘what is a version’). You're parsing stuff very inexactly, with *a lot* of corner cases.
<nckx>rushsteve1: I see now you're talking about PKGBUILDS (I just got back), the problem is that those (like ebuilds) are written in a Turing-complete language and the only way to parse them is to run code and oh god the edge cases.
<roptat>rekado_, the IP changed though, so you'll have to ask the firewall people :)
<quiliro>this is not a gnu issue right now, it is a guix issue
<quiliro>why is it mean...as mean as telling GNU people to kick out Stallman
<nckx>quiliro: You know (I hope you do) that I appreciate your presence here and I've always enjoyed helping & just talking to you. But I can't understand why you think people will think the Guix project speaks for you, or why the maintainers should have your blessing in everything they publish on guix.gnu.org.
<count3rmeasure>kmicu: thanks for taking the stand that yall have, its appreciated, and to all of the others hissing and screaming, in the long run this is only going to increase peoples enagagement with your project, precisely because they know that yall care
<quiliro>so the values of guix are that stallman's inocence is not to be held?
<nckx>quiliro: I'm sorry you feel that way. The Guix home page is not a public forum or a wiki for all users. You're free to offer whatever counterpoint you see fit elsewhere.
<quiliro>and it is the position of guix that his position as chief gnusance is to be contended?
<jlicht>congrats to the fine folks who drafted the joint statement! I like how focused on the way forward it is. Where are discussions on possible future 'governance' structures is being held, or does that happen behind closed doors for now?
<roptat>nckx, it's a contraction of "français" and "mathématiques" because it was started by a French teacher and a Maths teacher iirc
<vapid>"Yet, we must also acknowledge that Stallman’s behavior over the years has undermined a core value of the GNU project: the empowerment of all computer users." maybe someone might want to throw in a link explaining why
<jlicht>nckx: thanks for the reminder, I'm reading up on the logs.. oof!
<nckx>bavier: Ah, thanks. My french isn't *that* bad (he lied) but it always sounded strange to me. It's not a word, that's why.