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<quiliro>rekado: does not work with a simple: (progn (set-frame-font (font-spec :name "DejaVu Sans")))
<quiliro>midnight in wonder why he left
<quiliro>nckx: LANG=es_EC.UTF-8
<quiliro>i do not understand the diference between utf-8, UTF8, UTF-8 and utf8
<nckx>I won't get into the nitty gritty of ‘normalised codesets’, and maybe es_EC has its own rules, but in general .utf8 is preferred over .UTF-8. This has nothing to do with your font issue, though, just an aside.
<quiliro>you said before: <nckx> quiliro: Yeah that's just weird. That sounds like a locale problem, not a font problem.
<nckx>quiliro: There's not really a ‘difference’ as in ‘alternatives’; ‘utf8’ is just the preferred name, others may happen to work. That's oversimplified of course.
<nckx>I know what I said 😛
<nckx>Sorry: 😛
<nckx>: -p
<quiliro>oh...sorry....i did not mean to hit you on that
<quiliro>i just did not understand
<nckx>(Autoreplace means what it says, don't try to outwit it.)
<nckx>quiliro: Oh, no problem, no sorry needed either.
<nckx>Who knows, I might be wrong about magit and it might turn out to be a font issue after all, I just don't see how.
<nckx>But if I grokked emacs font handling at this level I'd 1) be able to actually help you 2) actually have mojies in emacs myself. Unfortunately: neither.
<quiliro>the git repo is on a git repo installed with apt install git...i git cloned it on this guix system machine...there, special characters display they do not on magit but do when i open the repository files
<quiliro>on the same emacs
<quiliro>the Oxford English Dictionary summarizes the meaning of grok as "to understand intuitively or by empathy, to establish rapport with" and "to empathize or communicate sympathetically (with); also, to experience enjoyment"
<quiliro>When you claim to "grok" some knowledge or technique, you are asserting that you have not merely learned it in a detached instrumental way but that it has become part of you, part of your identity.
<nckx>Indeed. If you hang around ‘hacker’-type folk, you'll have to learn ‘grok’ sooner or later 🙂
<quiliro>same source
<quiliro>i have read it before...this is my second time...but i did not know what it meant
<quiliro>now i do :-)
<nckx>I can use and configure emacs. I'm often even comfortable in it. But I do not grok it.
<nckx>Maybe after another 5 years…
<quiliro>For example, to say that you "know" Lisp is simply to assert that you can code in it if necessary — but to say you "grok" LISP is to claim that you have deeply entered the world-view and spirit of the language, with the implication that it has transformed your view of programming.
<nckx>(I know you're quoting, but you're still right.)
<quiliro>"cURL groks URLs"
<quiliro>it helps me understand
<quiliro>I like this one: "There isn't any software! Only different internal states of hardware. It's all hardware! It's a shame programmers don't grok that better."
<quiliro>I still do not understand the definition: "A derivation is a promise of a build."
<quiliro>What does that promise actually do? In common terms, a promise is a statement that informs of a future action.
<quiliro>So, a derivation would be a statement of how a build it to be performed? Wouldn't that be the package definition?
<quiliro>The way a package has to be built is defined on the package definition.
<reepca>quiliro: packages get "compiled", in a sense, to derivations. Derivations can be thought of as sort of a lower-level representation of the package graph.
<quiliro>reepca: thank you
<quiliro>is a d
<reepca>and yes, indeed, a derivation provides a precise description of how to produce its output(s).
<quiliro>is a derivation human readable? i would like to compare a package to its derivation
<quiliro>a very simple one
<reepca>depends on your definition of "human-readable". It's a text format, but I wouldn't call it very readable - they're automatically generated, and not with human consumption in mind. It'd be easier to inspect by reading it into a data structure in guile using 'read-derivation-from-file', which is exported from (guix derivations)
<reepca>in case you don't already know, you can get the derivation of a package with 'guix build -d <package>'
<quiliro>another question i have is if there are available full system configuration file examples for things like: web server with all bells and whistles, mail server with dovecot and the sort, nextcloud server, etc
<quiliro>and thank you for the previous explanation, reepca
<quiliro>those examples would be a great default installation instruction guide....
<quiliro>which would teach by example, which is easier than by theory...
<reepca>I'm afraid I don't know. Sounds like something we should see about adding to the cookbook. All I can really say is to check out the manual to see if there are already services for those sort of things.
<quiliro>reepca: where is the cookbook?
<quiliro>how can i tell if i have the latest version of the manual from emacs info?
<reepca>the cook book is a work-in-progress rekado recently made some starting commits on, see
<reepca>er, actually I don't recall if commits were pushed, but there are patches there
<reepca>regarding the manual version, I'm not sure - mine starts off by saying "This document describes GNU Guix version 0.0-git", which is less than helpful. But if you 'guix pull', it should become up-to-date.
<quiliro>guix --version
<quiliro>guix (GNU Guix) 1d03a9198db6f3656a34d62eb89e5f7d5a99e76a
<quiliro>would that be the latest and greatest?
<quiliro>so it would come with the latest and greatest manual also?
<nckx>quiliro: The latest and greatest changes by the hour, but that commit is from Sat Sep 7 22:23:32 2019 +0200. Pretty late & probably great.
<quiliro>nckx: :-D
<nckx>quiliro: What does the first sentence of ‘info guix’ say?
<quiliro>This document describes GNU Guix version 0.0-git, a functional package
<quiliro>management tool written for the GNU system.
<quiliro>right afterGNU Guix
<nckx>I thought that was just because I run from git.
<nckx>It's obviously supposed to be more informative than that.
<nckx>Is bug.
<nckx>quiliro: But anyway, in normal cases the version reported by ‘guix --version’ (or ‘guix describe’) also describe the manual, yes.
<quiliro>on the git repo that i git pulled, i have no doc/guix-ccokbook.texi
<nckx>quiliro: That's not a file what exists. Why are you expecting it?
<quiliro>doc/guix-cookbook.texi | 807 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
<quiliro>on the message
<reepca>quiliro: methinks that patch hasn't been applied yet, just posted for review.
<nckx>That's a proposed patch, you can apply it to your local tree (I'd just read the diff, myself) but you won't find it on master yet.
<quiliro>ok...thank you very much to both of you
<quiliro>how do i read the the mailing list web page i have cited or on git?
<quiliro>git diff?
<quiliro>i am loving magit, by the way
<nckx>quiliro: By read the diff I literally just meant reading that web page, as it is.
<nckx>TBH I've never tried applying a patch from those HTML archives. There's no ‘raw message’ link, hmm.
<nckx>quiliro: is the raw message saved from my own mailbox. You can apply it using ‘git am’, or magit, then run ‘make’ to compile the texi file. That's how it should work; I haven't actually tried this.
<quiliro>i'll try!
<nckx>I see it modifies some .mk files so you might even have to bootstrap first.
<quiliro>i do not know how to do that
<nckx>All this so you can read the text without the mark-up, I don't know if it's worth it. But you will learn how to bootstrap a guix checkout 😛
<quiliro>but i see the files come from the 2 blog posts i have read on web blogs
<quiliro>nckx: i think i have to start with basic stuff learning magit
<quiliro>or not?
<nckx>quiliro: To answer your last question: there's a ./bootstrap script in the guix git repository that you'll have to run the first time you build Guix. Probably using ‘guix environment’.
<nckx>quiliro: I agree that you should get comfortable with git basics first. Whether through magit or just plain command-line git.
*nckx back to work.
<quiliro>thank you very much nckx last question: what do you work in?
<nckx>quiliro: Currently as a translator.
<MarkRoberts>Hi. I'm a guix dumb ass newbie. Can I install the 1.0.1 i686-linux on an old Intel Pentium 32-bit computer?
<vagrantc>yes, though it might be slow if it has to build anything
<MarkRoberts>no problem as long as it works. cheers vagrantc.
<apteryx>how are build system phases dependencies known/provided? For example, the 'glib-compile-schemas' binary for the glib-or-gtk-build-system?
<sneek>apteryx, you have 1 message.
<sneek>apteryx, efraim says: I remember now there's a permissions issue with some directory switching between ntpd and openntpd. Unfortunately I don't remember the directory off hand
<apteryx>ah, default-glib
<apteryx>it's added to the lowered package build inputs
***aida is now known as SpeakerOfChoice
<MarceloLagoa>Basic question (but necessary, because in Guix manuals I didn't find the right answer): How do I include my user in the "lp" group? I need to access the CUPS interface, but the connection is refused ... As superuser I type in the terminal: "gpasswd -a marcelo lp" and get the confirmation. However, by typing the command "groups", I am subscribed only to the groups "users, netdev, audio, video, wheel". Opening the file / etc /
<MarceloLagoa>hat I am inserted in the group "lp", but I can't open localhost: 631 (connection refused).
<reepca>MarceloLagoa: See section 8.5 of the manual "User Accounts". There is a supplementary-groups field for users that you can use to declare which groups it is a member of.
<MarceloLagoa>reepca - sorry for my ignorance on the subject, but I come from a linux where the system operating mode is very different from guix mode ... I have read the topic 8.5 of the guix manual, I see that addresses the subject, but there is no tip on how to do this!
<MarceloLagoa>But, what should I type in the terminal to insert my user in the group "lp" ???
<reepca>MarceloLagoa: just to double-check, you're on Guix System, right? If so, you've got a system configuration lying around somewhere. Most tools and instructions will have it put in /etc/config.scm. Do you have that?
<MarceloLagoa>Sim! :) Estou operando um Sistema Operacional Guix. Eu tenho /etc/config.scm! Então eu posso editar esse arquivo com qualquer editor da minha preferência (leafpad ou nano) e acrescentar a declaração ali mesmo? E se for apenas isso que devo fazer, é necessário recompilar alguma coisa, ou basta reiniciar o sistema?
<MarceloLagoa>Sorry... Yes! I am operating a Guix Operating System. I have /etc/config.scm! So can I edit this file with any editor of my choice (leafpad or nano) and add the declaration right there? And if that's all I should do, is it necessary to recompile something, or just restart the system?
<reepca>you should see something of the form (operating-system ...). Within that '...', there should be something of the form (users ...). Somewhere within THAT '...' will be something like (user-account (name "myuserhere") (group "users") (supplementary-groups ...)). Modify the list after 'supplementary-groups' to include "lp".
<reepca>any editor will do, aye, though something with parentheses-matching will serve you well in the long run
<reepca>you'll likely need root privileges to edit it
<reepca>to make the new system configuration take effect, run 'sudo -E guix system reconfigure /etc/config.scm'
<reepca>(assuming you're running as a normal user with sudo powers)
<MarceloLagoa>reepca: I did exactly as you instructed, and now the system is downloading packages ... I hope I can access CUPS after that. I see it is a totally different way of operating than other distributions ... But it seems that once we learn a little about the logic of the system, it will in the future become something much easier to operate than other distributions! This is my second day using it. I'm on a virtual machine, testing
<MarceloLagoa>ying it. I plan to set it as my main system because I realize that each user's settings are handled in isolation and without interference, which makes it more secure. :)
<bandali>hi guix, anyone know if i could get my hands on openjdk 8 via guix?
<bandali>for research i have to use a few eclipse-based IDE’s that haven’t had recent releases, and sadly don’t work with recent versions of java e.g. as found in debian buster’s repos
<chipb>bandali: if debian's an option, I'm fairly certain oldstable (i.e. stretch) has openjdk 8.
<chipb>depending on what you're talking about, don't those IDE packages generally bundle their own JRE?
***MinceR_ is now known as MinceR
***Guest56603 is now known as sturm
<olivuser>Hej guix! Icecat/epiphany wont play yt/stream videos even after installing gst-plugins-{good,base}. Does it matter when I install the codecs (before/while/after related program)?
<w-iyzsong>olivuser: the order dosen't matter. what's the spec of that video (h264, mkv, etc..) ? you can try install 'gst-libav', i think
<rekado_>I pushed the cookbook to a separate wip-cookbook branch with commit 40fb6403cb4191bea40b9dda63977fcf89f8372a
<rekado_>olivuser: are the gstreamer environment variables set?
<olivuser>w-iyzsong: well mostly html5. But are the formats you mentioned included in the gst-plugins?
<olivuser>rekado_: I'm sorry, but I dont know what you mean by that. Last time I installed I just installed codecs without setting environment variables - only I forgot which packages :D
<w-iyzsong>yeah, gst-libav use ffmpeg, which should support most codecs. the environment variable is 'GST_PLUGIN_SYSTEM_PATH', make sure it's available where you run the browser..
<civodul>Hello Guix!
<roptat>hi guix!
<civodul>wip-cookbook, nice!
<apteryx>what's the best way to find which package propagated a binary in my profile?
<ng0>which(1) and read the symlink?
<ng0>or stat
<ng0>eh. no
<ng0>nvm, I don't know right now and should do something else
<apteryx>ng0: eh, thanks anyway :-)
<apteryx>probably hack something at the REPL from my manifest and up
<civodul>apteryx: i'd browse ~/.guix-profile/manifest, which contains propagations
<civodul>admittedly not super convenient!
<apteryx>civodul: I see, thanks :-)
<apteryx>I'm now wondering how we handle software which expects to find dbus-launch in the profile -- should they propagate dbus?
<apteryx>I'm looking at workrave in (gnu packages gnome) and I must admit I'm confused as to why all these libraries need to be "propagated-inputs".
<apteryx>I tried moving them to "inputs", as my hunch is that this is where they should be, but then it doesn't find dbus, which apperas to be propagated as a side-effect of propagating gtk+ in the current package.
<vagrantc>civodul: got a working tarball generated from core-updates; still had to run "make doc-pot-update" manually before "make dist"
<civodul>vagrantc: heh, cool!
<civodul>not sure why we need to explicitly run "make doc-pot-update"
<civodul>any idea, roptat?
<civodul>are we missing "dist-hook: dot-pot-update" or similar?
<vagrantc>civodul: built a .deb package from core-updates with no lintian errors, a bunch of warnings and various other minor complaints. not bad!
<vagrantc>civodul: only two build-dependencies missing in Debian now; guile-git (waiting NEW review... still) and guile-gnutls.
<vagrantc>civodul: this almost looks feasible
<vagrantc>downloading the bootstrap binaries at run-time helped tremendously
*vagrantc remembers about sleep
*vagrantc waves
<civodul>vagrantc: woow, sounds good!
<civodul>yeah, good night!
<civodul>really happy you were able to make this much progress :-)
<vagrantc>and mes is coming along too
<roptat>civodul, I don't know, wasn't there an issue with dist-hook last time we updated the translation for the TP?
<civodul>roptat: ah, maybe
<olivuser>Alright, installing ffmpeg and gst-libav solved the issue for icecat. Still, audio/video playback doesnt work for epiphany.
<olivuser>w-iyzsong: how do I find out if epiphany knows abouz GST_PLUGIN_SYSTEM_PATH? Or is it an altogether epiphany problem?
***SpeakerOfChoice is now known as aida
<w-iyzsong>olivuser: the variable is used by gstreamer, you can run 'epiphany' in a shell, and in the same shell check 'echo $GST_PLUGIN_SYSTEM_PATH' has entries point to your guix profile.
<w-iyzsong>in the shell, you can run 'gst-play-1.0' to test some local (or remote, by url) media files, if they're playing, then the gstreamer setup is fine.
<joshuaBPMan>morning guix!
<nckx>Good morning, joshuaBPMan.
<joshuaBPMan>nckx: right back at you!
<quiliro>Good morning!
<quiliro>It is 06h45 local time and the day looks great.
<janneke>good morning quiliro
<quiliro> I have a weird situation. When I type 'git log' on BaSh, the special characters ó, ñ, í, are displayed correctly. But they are not displayed correctly on Emacs shell if I type the same command or on Emacs Magit, when I enter with the git-status command either. But if I edit a file on Emacs, those characters are displayed well.
<nckx>quiliro: Good morning! I hope someone can help you today, but don't hesitate to file bug reports for issues like these. IRC's great for instant help if you're lucky, but bug trackers tend to attract more answers over time and are better archived.
<quiliro>nckx: Nice to see you again...I note you are 24/7!...I will follow your advice.
<nckx>I am eternal.
<quiliro>ha ha!
<civodul>rekado_: ↑
<pinoaffe>I added support for the "faber" build system to gnu guix and have packaged the sole package I've been able to find that uses it, but I've been unable to verify the correctness of my code
<pinoaffe>could someone take a look at the faber build system code in (/guix/build/faber-build-system.scm and /guix/build-system/faber.scm), and look whether I made any obvious mistakes?
<civodul>pinoaffe: do you know how widely used Faber is?
<civodul>it would be nice to have more than one package using it :-)
<nckx>pinoaffe: Here too (and you may have posted it alread; I just performed a quick ‘faber’ search in- my -box), posting to guix-devel@ will net you more and different eyeballs.
<civodul>yes, that too!
<nckx>I don't see anything obviously wrong but that's not saying much 🙂
<pinoaffe>nckx: okidoki, I'll do that
<pinoaffe>civodul: i've only been able to find one package using faber, but that might also be due to the not-so-googlable name "faber"
<nckx>Which is really a shame, because the world needs more build tools.
<pinoaffe>nckx: yes, every project should have its own purpose-built build tool :)
<apteryx>civodul: quick question: are you still using ratpoison?
<raingloom>heyy, what's up with ghci not finding System.IO :/
<apteryx>and if so, do you use any notifications system (tray/bar/something?)
<civodul>apteryx: i am!
<civodul>i don't use any notifications system though
<civodul>well, i use Emacs :-)
<apteryx>OK! Looks like my setup ;-) I was wondering if I wasn't missing on something
<civodul>maybe we're both missing out on something ;-)
<dutchie>mako does the job for me in sway
<dutchie>although it looks to be wayland-only
<bandali>there’s dunst for x11 users
<bandali>there’s also an emacs package called eosd which can make emacs act as a notification daemon
<bandali>not sure if it’s packaged in guix yet though
<civodul>bandali: looks like it's not, but it'd be nice to have
<bandali>civodul, cool; i could try and package it when i find some free time :)
<bandali>civodul, btw did you see rekado_’s post on help-guix regarding providing multiple variants of a package?
<bandali>i’d love there to be an easy way of having emacs master on guix, such that when installed/enabled, all emacs-xyz packages would be built using an emacs-minimal master as well…
<civodul>bandali: i haven't seen the post, but i agree that what you describe would be sweet
<civodul>there's --with-branch=emacs=master, but it's prolly not as convenient as we'd like in this case
<bandali>civodul, :) is that an argument to one of the guix subcommands?
<dutchie>guix build
<civodul>all of them even!
<civodul>so you can also do: "guix install emacs emacs-helm --with-git-url=emacs=..."
<apteryx>if we could patch the binary which does this syscall: execve("/gnu/store/g4g5gcy5xij6xg2jg68pg7ixhpfgz678-profile/bin/dbus-launch", ["dbus-launch", "--autolaunch=237299f4bf75e5a03abef4ac5c331a0d", "--binary-syntax", "--close-stderr"], 0x24aa400 /* ... we'd never need to worry about propagating dbus anymore.
<civodul>well in the case of emacs it's not that simple because you need the autotools
<civodul>apteryx: where do we propagate dbus?
<apteryx>civodul:we propagate dbus in at-spi2-core
<apteryx>which is used by gtk+ stuff; which seems to induce people to include gtk+ as a propagated input (or is there any legit use)? to make their package stop complaining about dbus-launch missing
<civodul>propagating gtk+ doesn't sound like a great idea
<apteryx>one case at study: workrave in gnome.scm
<civodul>i suppose libdbus contains the file name of dbus-launch, no?
*apteryx apteryx is checking
<PotentialUser-50>Hello to everyone! I don 't see the numbers in Icecat (Xfce4). Is this a font problem? What to download?
<apteryx>civodul: seems to happen around ./dbus/dbus-sysdeps-unix.c:3909
<bandali>PotentialUser-50, hey, are you using guix on a front distro? if so, yes it’s a font problem; try installing one of the font packages through guix, such as font-liberation
<bandali>*foreign distro
<bandali>i clearly haven’t woken up yet
<PotentialUser-50>bandali, Oh, thank you)
<joshuaBPMan>hmmm, my icecat is not showing fonts. It's weird. I think last time I fixed this, I installed some fonts...let's try that.
<pinoaffe>PotentialUser-50: I had that same issue a while ago, fixed it by playing around with font config in icecat and by installing some more fonts
<joshuaBPMan>pinoaffe: thanks. yeah the manual mentions it...I'll try that.
<joshuaBPMan>I've got font-hack, font-dejavu, and fs-fonts installed...
<joshuaBPMan>I wonder if me changing my user name when I reconfigured may have caused some issues.
<bandali>PotentialUser-50, cheers :)
<joshuaBPMan>maybe I need it install glibc-locales
*apteryx zzzz
<joshuaBPMan>hmmm. I'll try rebooting.
<PotentialUser-50>Okay, thank you all! I use the system in Russian. Error with fonts, probably because of this
<joshuaBPMan>well rebooting did not work.
<joshuaBPMan>thank goodness, emacs has eww
<roptat>fc-cache -fv, does it help?
<joshuaBPMan>roptat: nope.
<joshuaBPMan>it output some lines, but icecat is not showing any fonts still.
<joshuaBPMan>I did notice this -lha .guix-profile -> '/var/guix/profiles/per-user/Joshua Branson/'
<joshuaBPMan>I think that should be s/Joshua Branson/joshua
<joshuaBPMan>I reconfigured my username to joshua....I don't know why I still see Joshua Branson
<joshuaBPMan>I suppose that I could manually change that....
<joshuaBPMan>I think I'll do that and see what happens
<joshuaBPMan>is that a soft link?
<roptat>it's a symbolic link
<joshuaBPMan>hmmm, well now d-menu is not working...
<joshuaBPMan>and I cannot open new terminals...
<joshuaBPMan>let me reconfigure...
<joshuaBPMan>I bet that was the main problem...but now I cannot seem to run any programs...
<roptat>because you profile was not migrated in /var/guix I suppose
<joshuaBPMan>hmmm, yeah I can't even find programs in my virtual console.
<roptat>you can temporarily set your $PATH to /var/guix/profiles/per-user/Joshua Branson/guix-profile/bin (or maybe not guix-profile, whatever that is)
<joshuaBPMan>roptat: why wouldn't it have been? I reconfigured and changed the name. I'm reinstalling the packages that I've missed.
<joshuaBPMan>oh, maybe that's why...
<joshuaBPMan>I think I set .guix-profile -> /var/guix/profiles/per-user/joshua/
<joshuaBPMan>I think it should me .guix-profile -> /var/guix/profiles/per-user/joshua/guix-profile/bin
<joshuaBPMan>should be*
<joshuaBPMan>hmm, that doesn't seem to be it. I've still got no programs...
<joshuaBPMan>that's not true... I can still do ls... but not sway --version
<mbakke>joshuaBPMan: The symlink should be /home/joshua/.guix-profile -> /var/guix/profiles/per-user/joshua/guix-profile
<joshuaBPMan>mkbakke: thanks I'll try that.
<joshuaBPMan>mbakke: You are a life saver! I bet you're the kind of man that would save starving kittens from a burning building. :)
<joshuaBPMan>and icecat now works too!
<mbakke>wouldn't everyone? :)
<mbakke>joshuaBPMan: great!
<joshuaBPMan>well, I personally would only save then in the nude. That's just how I fire-fight.
<joshuaBPMan>I'll also have to give ngo a big thank you. I think he's been maintaining sway, and sway works amazingly well under guix.
<mbakke>can confirm, as a happy sway user :)
<mbakke>joshuaBPMan: who is 'ngo'?
<joshuaBPMan>sorry. "ng0"
<joshuaBPMan>I think he was the guy who originally committed sway.
<civodul>howdy mbakke!
<mbakke>sup civodul
<civodul>wazup? :-)
<mbakke>joshuaBPMan: sway was committed by rutger, who i think is not on IRC :)
<joshuaBPMan>mbakke: nevermind. I'll thank him.
<mbakke>civodul: I'm trying to get back on track with Guix after a much-needed break...
<mbakke>now I'm looking into the mariadb build failure on armhf
<mbakke>(on the core-updates branch) ... i suspect the problem is with one of the build nodes
<mbakke>it would be good to record which machine last built a particular derivation, somehow
<civodul>mbakke: ah yes
<civodul>mariadb often fails to build due to ENOSPC or things like that
<mbakke>civodul: this time it has failed with the same error many times in a row
<mbakke>and it does not look ENOSPC related
<mbakke>it looks like some of the skip_replication statements are ineffective
<mbakke>but it could be due to problems elsewhere, e.g. race induced by high I/O pressure
<nckx>Good evening #guix. Nice to be back and catch up on the discussions on *scrolls back* nude fire-fighting.
*efraim scrolls up
<efraim>Huh, not kidding
<mbakke>derp, the mysql link above should be
<rekado_>The new servers for arrived.
<ng0>looks like lots of work
<rekado_>lots of garbage!
<rekado_>so many cardboard boxes…
<dongcarl>very glad you guys are getting more power
<rekado_>we’re still waiting for new power socket strips, and tomorrow we’ll get the two switches (10G + 1G).
<rekado_>that’s why I couldn’t wire them up today.
<rekado_>tomorrow Madalin will run some tests to make sure the hardware is all right
<rekado_>in the meantime I’ll try to figure out how to make PXE boot work with Guix, so that we can install the servers more quickly.
<rekado_>once that’s all done we’ll have to move berlin (the head node) and its storage array to this rack
<rekado_>so there’ll be a short downtime soon.
<rekado_>but once it’s all back up we should have a much more powerful build farm
<rekado_>and I can finally retire the zombie Sun nodes for good
*dongcarl is happy
<mbakke>rekado: in unrelated news, my browser complains that loads favicon.ico over HTTP, when using a HTTPS connection
<mbakke>also, yay :)
<mbakke>PXE booting Guix has been on my "wish list" for some time, let me know if I can help/you get stuck :)
<rekado_>mbakke: I’ll the fix the favicon problem right away
<mbakke>that's quite the service, thanks!
<civodul>rekado_: yay!
<civodul>and: hi!
<rekado_>civodul: hi!
<rekado_>civodul: thanks for the Evo Bio / GWL announcement!
<civodul>that was entertaining
<civodul>Jupyter is driving me crazy
***jakob is now known as Guest13315
<rekado_>civodul: are you playing with the Guix kernel? Or is it just regular Jupyter weirdness?
<civodul>the Guix kernel!
<civodul>it's potentially cool, but so far it's been taking all my energy
<civodul>surely coolness is around the corner
<rekado_>I wonder how Jupyter kernels compose
<rekado_>people here often use the R kernel for Jupyter.
<rekado_>I wonder if kernels can be stacked or composed or something
<civodul>i don't think so
<civodul>the Guix kernel allows you to have multiple kernels in one notebook
<civodul>something that's not possible by default
<civodul>unlike in org-babel :-)
<rekado_>you know, this keeps baffling me
<roptat>that's really cool :)
<rekado_>the fact that org-babel has such a simple design that just works … and that hardly anyone uses it.
<roptat>I'm glad you're working on this!
<roptat>(so I don't have to, tbh :p)
<civodul>there are people who use babel and promote it for reproducible science, for instance
<civodul>but it's a minority
<civodul>and Jupyter generates so much excitement
<civodul>go figure!
<rekado_>I keep underestimating the impact of “browser-enabled” software
<dongcarl>Would anyone of the Guix maintainers/Guix itself want a HiFive riscv64 Unleashed board?
<janneke>sneek: later tell vagrantc: thanks for checking, i have updated wip-0.20 and wip-0.20-debian and successfully ran dpkg-buildpackage -B on bullseye
<sneek>Got it.
<janneke>sneek: botsnack
<dongcarl>I have someone willing to donate
<nckx>dongcarl: That's great news. I honestly can't imagine *nobody* here being interested in porting Guix to real RISC-V hardware…
<dongcarl>Yeah, might post to mailing list if no takers
<nckx>I tried to get one for porting Guix a year or so ago without luck.
<nckx>I'm still interested, if nobody with more bootstrapping experience is.
<nickey>hi guys! i want to try using guixsd instead of arch on my dell xps laptop, which uses non-free wifi and bluetooth drivers and firmware. is it painful to use nonfree software on guix? and the second question: did anybody succeed on using proprietary nvidia driver on guixsd?
<gaueko>how can i add a new routing table in guix?
<gaueko>seems that ip has its path hardcoded to read it from the store
<gaueko>*ip command
<nckx>nickey: The GNU Guix project can't support packaging or using proprietary software. That includes all communication channels (mailing lists, IRC, …). Sorry!
<nckx>Guix doesn't go out of its way to make anything you want to do *painful* though. That includes installing the software you want. We just can't help you with that kind of software.
<nickey>nckx: i'm not actually asking for help. but anyway, thanks for your answer
<nckx>You're welcome!
<nickey> /join guix-nonfree
<nickey>sorry, guys, wrong buffer :()
***Formbi` is now known as Formbi
<nckx>nickey: Perhaps I wasn't clear the first time. There's no secret get-out-of-proprietary-jail-free wink. Please don't do this again.
<nickey>nckx: don't do what?
<nckx>You know what. Thanks.
<null_radix[m]>`guix pull` is giving me a 404 right now... is this happening to annyone else?
<gaueko>same here
<rekahsoft>null_radix[m]: gaueko: It was working ~30 minutes ago for me. I just tried again (to pull from guix git on savannah) and it now fails :(
<nckx>Joy, Savannah's down again.
<nckx>Whoops, somebody deleted all the software. Guess we'll have to start again ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
<gaueko>it's a common pattern to generate derivations adding files into etc?
<gaueko>i see there is even a service for something similar
<nckx>gaueko: I'm not sure I grok your question, but yes, it's quite common.
<gaueko>you are right, i will try to explain me better ... I want to add some new routing tables, for testing is more than enough to use just ids (usin ip rule add blah blah) but at some point I would like to have aliases for those numbers
<gaueko>dunno what's better though, adding the file with the aliases into the iproute2 package or just as an entry into etc
<mbakke>gaueko: there has been some discussion about providing better networking support in the configuration system
<mbakke>would it make sense to have a service type for those routing tables?
<nckx>gaueko: Definitely the latter! I wish I knew more about the details of ip to tell you what to do; I don't.
<gaueko>well a service similar to iptables yes i guess
<mbakke>many service types do nothing but drop files in /etc
<gaueko>at the end is very similar
<gaueko>basically you want just restore/save and test/modify on real time
<gaueko>actually that file in etc is not strictly needed, it just provides a nicer way of refering to the routing tables (my-routing-table instead of 123 for instance)
<raghavgururajan>guix pull: error: Git error: unexpected HTTP status code: 404
<gaueko>ok, thanks fo the responses. I try to do it via etc / service.
<gaueko>*I will try, sorry
<mbakke>gaueko: please share your experience on guix-devel if you have the time, or better yet write a patch for the service :-)
***ChanServ sets mode: +o nckx
***nckx changes topic to 'GNU Guix | ‘guix pull’ servers are currently down | 1.0.1 is out! get it at | videos: | bugs and patches: | paste: | Guix in high-performance computing: | This channel is logged:'
***ChanServ sets mode: -o nckx
<nckx>That might help a tiny bit. Or not.
<jlicht>hey guix! Does anyone know a way to get the sources for openjdk _installed in my profile_? I am open to create some sort of derivative frankenstein package object as well :-)
<civodul>mbakke: i see you're on #savannah, what did they say?
<civodul>jlicht: you could try something fancy
<civodul>like "guix package -I openjdk"
<civodul>then you "guix gc --derivers that-thing"
<civodul>and "guix gc --references that.drv |grep openjdk"
<civodul>hey, snape!
<snape>hey civodul :)
<jlicht>civodul: yeah, that is what I do now; I would prefer to move towards a solution that I can put in my manifest :-)
<civodul>jlicht: you need to tell us about the complete use case :-)
<gaueko>mbakke: I will try tomorrow to do something, reading how iptables and udev does right now
<gaueko>basically that should be enough i guess
<jlicht>context: I would like to set `cider-jdk-src-paths' for emacs-cider to something memorable, such as "$HOME/.guix-profile/share/jdk-1.12.tar.xz"
<efraim>Other than creating a package that just copies the source to %output?
<snape>the git repository doesn't seem to be available. Is that normal?
<jlicht>efraim: ah, I can just inherit from the package, but replace the build phases by that! Thanks! :-)
<mbakke>civodul: apparently there are problems reaching the NFS server, after a reboot
<civodul>jlicht: why not add (package-source openjdk) as an input of emacs-cider and recording that file name?
<civodul>mbakke: ok, crossing fingers
<jlicht>civodul: That is exactly the kind of magic I was hoping to find, thank you so much!
<snape>it's been months since I haven't 'git pull' and now that I find some time to do it it doesn't work. Did anyone tell the people at Savannah?
<nckx>snape: They are very aware ;-)
<snape>I was expecting so :) just to make sure. Thanks!
<nckx>…and as I write that, it seems that we're back in business!
***ChanServ sets mode: +o nckx
<snape>oh great!
***nckx changes topic to 'GNU Guix | 1.0.1 is out! get it at | videos: | bugs and patches: | paste: | Guix in high-performance computing: | This channel is logged:'
***ChanServ sets mode: -o nckx
<snape>wow there's a very nice IRC logs interface now... If I had known I wouldn't have asked that question that has been asked 10 times today I guess :)
<nckx>I also wonder if anyone actually reads the topic.
<snape>I did, but it says 'guix pull', not 'git pull'
<nckx>Weeell, I wanted to use as few words as possible…
<nckx>It's already megalong.
<snape>what I meant is that 'not being to guix pull' doesn't imply 'not being able to git pull' :)
<nckx>But point taken.
<nckx>Doesn't it?
<nckx>I mean, channels aside, but you know 'em if you use 'em.
<snape>well anyway it works now :)
<nckx>Not if we all DDoS it by guix (or git) pulling now! 👍
*nckx does their part.
<erudition>Wait what? there's a nice logs interface now??
*snape too, before it's too late
<snape>erudition: I discovered this by reading this channel's topic
<erudition>All I see is the same old
<erudition>A dump of text files
<erudition>Hmm okay I see the formatting has improved! But unless I'm missing something, there's still no way to even search for anything though
<snape>hm that's because you haven't seen what was before. It's now waaaaaaaaaaaay better.
<snape>anyway, got to go. Good bye!
<civodul>nckx: {sergei,dmitri} are "plugged in" now!
<civodul>thank you!
<civodul>could you add details to the machines.rec file in maintenance.git?
<vagrantc>problems at savannah?
<sneek>Welcome back vagrantc, you have 1 message.
<sneek>vagrantc, janneke says: thanks for checking, i have updated wip-0.20 and wip-0.20-debian and successfully ran dpkg-buildpackage -B on bullseye
<nckx>civodul: Thank you.
<nckx>Sure can do.
<nckx>vagrantc: Should be over?
<vagrantc>seems to be, yay. :)
<rekado_>erudition: you are very welcome to help with the logs
<rekado_>building a searchable thing isn’t very difficult
<rekado_>I just wasn’t able to squeeze more productivity out of my time, so it is what it is.
<erudition>snape: Hmm perhaps. Must have been a really long time ago then
<erudition>rekado_: Yeah I've brought it up before but the general response was that it was by design
<rekado_>the logs thing is pretty recent. Probably not more than a month.
<rekado_>by design?
<rekado_>I wrote it.
<rekado_>I didn’t design it.
<rekado_>we just have a bunch of log files and I’m serving them after styling them a little.
<rekado_>that’s pretty much all there is to it.
<rekado_>beats having no logs
<erudition>Oh okay. I just mean that some people (including I believe nckx) seemed to prefer the channel not even be logged
<rekado_>and it beats having just files that you have to download
<nckx>erudition: Uh, that is absolutely not the case.
<erudition>Ah! I forgot, you did have to download them before. That is true
<nckx>I log it myself. 🙂
<erudition>Hmm, perhaps I can find it in the logs then
<rekado_>the code is here:
<erudition>nckx: Something about not wanting any mean things people say to be on the internet forever
<rekado_>I’d be delighted to receive patches to make it better.
<vagrantc>thankfully, #guix is pretty devoid of mean things :)
<erudition>rekado_: Yeah, I get that you think I'm complaining. Sorry if it sounded that way! I don't mind, especially now that Matrix takes care of all of that for me
<erudition>Is there soemthing wrong with all the existing channel-logging solutions? Non-free bits or something?
<rekado_>erudition: ah, no, I really do mean that I welcome contributions to this :)
<rekado_>erudition: I’m not happy with the way it works, but I just can’t do more.
<erudition>I understand
<rekado_>existing channel logging solutions … well. People sometimes say “just use this” but then someone’s got to actually do it, migrate existing old logs, but … then nobody actually does the work.
<erudition>I'm still curious about the problems with the existing solutions?
<erudition>oh is it really that involved?
<rekado_>I don’t know.
<rekado_>but someone’s gotta do ti
<erudition>I thought some channels simply invite a bot and... that's pretty much it
<rekado_>I just worked with what I had
<rekado_>I’d like to store stuff on our servers
<rekado_>I’d rather not depend on some service that runs elsewhere and where we would have trouble getting our logs from, should the thing disappear one day
<erudition>ah okay. Yeah that's the kind of requirement I was getting at
<rekado_>I had ZNC with its logging plugin, Guile, and some stale but sticky chewing gum.
<rekado_>and that’s the only reason why the log web interface is the way it is.
<rekado_>I’d be happy to throw it out one fine day :)
<nckx>erudition: I tempting fate to smack me down with a damning quote, but I don't think I said that. I welcome our logging overlords *here*. I grep #guix all the time.
<erudition>Well it's not too damning, Freenode itself seems to advise against it
<erudition>> If you are considering publishing channel logs, think it through. The freenode network is an interactive environment and users may not weigh their comments with the idea that they will be enshrined in perpetuity.
<nckx>I though I was the only Freenode user who'd read all those pages 😛 I think our clear notice takes care of that. Maybe also the fact that we can indeed get away with things because we're all so goddamn chummy.
<civodul>erudition: good point, that's the reason the welcome message and subject explicitly mention logging
<nckx>When I see what other channels have to deal with
<erudition>Yeah. Though any old Joe can log us, as nckx said he does. So maybe the point is moot
<nckx>erudition: That's another good point.
<quiliro>sneek: later tell Minall: Ya pude levantar el servicio. Conéctate por el puerto 2222 al tercer usuario y copia al repositorio tu tarea.
<sneek>Will do.
<tune> wayland on hurd! very cool
<quiliro>sneek: Thank you.
<nckx>tune: Wowza!
<erudition>rekado_: There's always in case you're okay wioth logging on another server (in addition to the existing solution of course)
<rekado_>oh, that’s lovely!
<quiliro>I saw Wayland is standard on Debian now
<rekado_>I wonder if the required changes have made it upstream already.
<rekado_>I haven’t seen anything about this on bug-hurd yet.
<rekahsoft>How does one get the debbugs id after submitting an initial email to
<rekado_>rekahsoft: it’s reported in the acknowledgement email that debbugs sends you.
<rekahsoft>rekado_: long does it normally take to receive the confirmation?
<nothingmuch>win 20
<vagrantc>rekahsoft: pretty variable, in my experience
<vagrantc>sometimes almost as soon as i send it, and sometimes over half an hour
<rekahsoft>vagrantc: alright, its been >10min so I was starting to wonder what was happening. I actually noticed after submitting the patch/s that the work was already done (but under a different package name), so now I will just close my ticket (I have others so I wanted to make sure I understood the process before continuing).
<rekahsoft>Thats a little painful. Whats the reason for the delay?
<vagrantc>i would guess greylisting?
<vagrantc>maybe debbugs also queues processing in batches?
<rekahsoft>That would make sense..wish it was faster though :(
<rekahsoft>It would be nice if `guix package -s <REGEXP>` implied `.*<REGEXP>.*` if <REGEXP> met some condition (eg its 'simple' and just a string of characters)
<rekahsoft>I mention this because out of habit, before packaging a tool I looked to see if it was already packaged..I did so with `guix package -s thing` where I should have done `guix package -s '.*thing.*'` :(
<nckx>rekahsoft: But REGEXP must match .*REGEXP.*… Could you give an example?
<nckx>Something's not right here.
<rekado_>janneke: congratulations on the Mes 0.20 release!
*jonsger saw that mes builds now ootb on Debian. I need to test that on openSUSE as well :)
*rekado_ tries to set up a PXE environment and boot Guix System via PXE in Qemu.
<vagrantc>yeah, managed to land all the build-dependencies for mes into debian in july
<vagrantc>rekado_: in another life i did a lot of network booting and it's been at the back of my mind to make that easier with guix
<rekado_>vagrantc: I was so disappointed when it didn’t just work as I hoped when I originally installed the build farm.
<rekado_>it’s very tedious to install 20+ servers by booting from USB…
<rekado_>now that the new servers have arrived and will be ready for installation soon I want to have a little less work
<vagrantc>seems like integrating PXE boot into guix deploy might be interesting
<vagrantc>i've also wondering about multiple machines sharing the same /gnu/store concurrently
<vagrantc>but it depends on an sqlite database to keep track of which items in the store are actually valid?
<bendersteed>hello people, if i want to try a system build on core updates how could i run guix system reconfigure?
<bendersteed>i tried with --with-branch=core-updates and it didn't work
<civodul>efraim: do you remember why we have #:cargo-inputs and #:cargo-development-inputs instead of native-inputs/inputs?
<civodul>that seems bad