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<Minall>Hello guix!
<quiliro>saluton Minall
<Minall>Kiel vi fartas_
<quiliro>Minall: Kiel vi fartas?
<Minall>Te llegan los mensajes privados_
<baconicsynergy>hello my friends :)
<OriansJ>hello baconicsynergy
<baconicsynergy>It's been a long time since I've been here, or used Guix. I'm pleased to say that I'm installing guix right now in a vm on Genode!
<baconicsynergy>It's good to be back
<OriansJ>baconicsynergy: glad to have you back, although I am surprised you didn't bring a little bit of guix to genode
<sammich>what should scripts that use /usr/bin/env use in guix?
<baconicsynergy>Genode has been quite a journey - I've learned a lot, and I'm at the point where I'm very comfortable with the workflow and I'm starting an OS zoo/collection :)
<OriansJ>baconicsynergy: have you thought about having guix support the OS zoo as it would really help their workflows
<OriansJ>sammich: well depends if you are talking about just getting them to work on your personal system or in general the best course of action for software you write
<baconicsynergy>I've definitely recommended them using Guix for some low-level package management in the past
<OriansJ>baconicsynergy: I find other projects tend to be more accepting if we do the lift for them and show them how much nicer life can be for them ^_^
<baconicsynergy>I've fallen in love with microkernels over the past year, and I love that Guix is at the beginning staging of supporting the Hurd
<quiliro>baconicsynergy: mhere did you see that? (hurd on guix)
<baconicsynergy>I would personally prefer that the Hurd use an L4 microkernel in place of Mach, but there's so much code in userspace that's tied to Mach
<OriansJ>baconicsynergy: actually we would love guix to support even more microkernels but we need more people to be willing to work on it (always short of developers)
<baconicsynergy>lemme see if I can find it, hold on a sec
<OriansJ>quiliro: janneke also did some initial porting of MesCC to hurd so that guix can get a solid bootstrap there as well
<baconicsynergy>GNU Mach is definitely already available and packaged for Guix :)
<baconicsynergy>You can search for it and find it
<quiliro>OriansJ: I am planning to go to high schools to recruit students that would like to hack on guix
<baconicsynergy>quiliro, that's very noble. We need more recruits!
<OriansJ>quiliro: ^_^
<quiliro>by recruiting, i mean advocacy
<quiliro>and maybe a little help
<baconicsynergy>I can't find the blog post but its slowly being worked on
<sammich>OriansJ: it was just for me, i realised i could just `ln -s` it to what things look for it
<pkill9>i finally submitted a patch for adding a service
<OriansJ>sammich: if it is just for you feel free to add (service special-files-service-type `(("/usr/bin/env" ,(file-append (canonical-package coreutils) "/bin/env"))) to your config
<pkill9>though it is a little messy
<quiliro>what do you suggest as a methodology for this type of advocacy?
<OriansJ>quiliro: reveal magic and encourage people to make their own lives better
<quiliro>good policy... i was looking for a methodology...something more like an algorithm....step 1, 2 ,3, aand 5
<OriansJ>quiliro: there is no algorithm for being a considerate human being; you have start by listening to what they want and helping them find ways of making their lives better.
<quiliro>it is a good point...but if there is an algorithm, listening and consideration is embedded on the process
<OriansJ>technology can empower us or enslave us; you just need to give them the ability to empower themselves to make their own lives and futures better. Be it with tools, ways of getting information or sharing with friends/family
<quiliro>i will look for general high school student recuiting methodoly
<OriansJ>grow communities inside of small groups that have common goals and then encourage cooperation between groups to demonstrate real leadership
<quiliro>OriansJ: that takes a lot of intuition...i am not very intuitive or social
<quiliro>that is why i am looking for a process or algorithm
<quiliro>it will prevent me from making mistakes
<str1ngs>pay them, its always a motivating algorithm :P
<OriansJ>quiliro: actually the secret is to make lots of mistakes, as quickly as possible. Just make failure cheap
<OriansJ>take what you don't value and give it away freely
<quiliro>str1ngs: i do not want to get money into itç
<str1ngs>I understand, it was a play on words. dont mind me :P
<quiliro>str1 :-)
<quiliro>i have a lot of fsf stickers!
<OriansJ>quiliro: give those that you love, what they value.
<OriansJ>because everyone values different things
<quiliro>i could give them to people that get tasks done
<OriansJ>quiliro: that works better with small children
<OriansJ>showing them how to setup a server to bypass the school's firewall rules would get a better response
<quiliro>it's like giving medals!
<quiliro>OriansJ: haha...true...but that would ban me from that school and even get me to jail
<quiliro>OriansJ: that is why i did not learn it myself
<OriansJ>quiliro: you can show people how to setup a server and some of the cool things one can do on a server without breaking any rules or any laws
<quiliro>OriansJ: good one
<quiliro>i am testing freedombone
<quiliro>but i could never get it to work...even after 1 year
<quiliro>it is very easy to set up...but does not work
<OriansJ>quiliro: show them some cool shit they can do or show them how they can make their own of anything you would have wanted back in high school
<quiliro>like what?
<quiliro>like arduino ar avr?
<quiliro>maybe emacs
<OriansJ>you know you can ask random people to get the answers you seek
<quiliro>what most kis want is to make games and crack security
<OriansJ>so, show them ways to do that
<quiliro>i know neithor
<OriansJ>show them things like this:
<OriansJ>show them what you know well
<quiliro>installing guix!
<quiliro>i have done it 100 times
<OriansJ>and the cool things about guix
<quiliro>an innate interes is also needed in them
<quiliro>perhaps it is the most important
<quiliro>at least for guix
<OriansJ>quiliro: guix is a tool for empowering the solving of problems, not the solution to all problems. Show them guix solving problems you have had or are afraid of having
<quiliro>i never thought of guix that way
<quiliro>i guess it could work
<quiliro>i never used guix for solving problems. in fact, i have been getting into problems by using guix
<quiliro>but i see it as an advocacy that requires sacrifice
<quiliro>of course i could find ways to solve problems with guix
<quiliro>and why it would be the only solution
<quiliro>for example, if someone wants to make sure certain source is the one that originates the binary
<quiliro>for auditability....
<OriansJ>quiliro: remember be honest and that even if they don't go full guix, lead them in the the direction of the FSF and open culture movements, so that it'll be easier for them later to find their way
<quiliro>but that is somewhat boring for the general developer population
<quiliro>OriansJ: yes, i do that
<quiliro>i think that i will need to learn to crack and to make games... :-(
<quiliro>but i do not want to.....
<quiliro>i feel it is senseless
<quiliro>a waste of time
<quiliro>games are the second best way to learn something
<quiliro>the best way is by doing it
<quiliro>so that could be a motivator to make games...people will learn certain skills i value to promote
<quiliro>cracking is a rather useless task unless it is very dangerous
<quiliro>when it is dangerous, it means you are attacking powerful unethical people...that is the only worthwhile task
<quiliro>for is not that can be acquired on enough quantity without risking anything
<quiliro>and cracking is very risky...sooner or later you get caught
<quiliro>it is risky if you know how to do it....even if you don't even get do can see the case of ola bini
<quiliro>he was in prison for 70 days without charges
<quiliro>just for knowing about encryption
<OriansJ>quiliro: don't try to be or do something you are not;
<OriansJ>be the change you wish to see in the world
<rvgn>OriansJ It's my favourite quote :)
<str1ngs>attributed to Gandhi do?
<elais>So I have a basic question. What are best practices for storing user configurations? Just home/user/.config/guix/config.scm?
<amz3>is it possible to install guix without 'sudo' and without being root?
<amz3>I think it is not possible.
<OriansJ>amz3: well there is the proot option
<amz3>proot can run the guix-daemon?
<str1ngs>amz3: no you still need to make build groups and users
<emacsomancer>str1ngs: it's a very un-Gandhi-like phrasing
<emacsomancer>I think most of the quotes attributed to Gandhi (I suppose like those attributed to Churchill, Twain etc.) aren't his
<emacsomancer>re: Gandhi quote:
<str1ngs>ahh thanks emacsomancer I thought it was Gandhi for some reason.
<emacsomancer>str1ngs: it's certainly often attributed to him, and he it turns out did something not entirely dissimilar
<emacsomancer>str1ngs: "If we could change ourselves, the tendencies in the world would also change. As a man changes his own nature, so does the attitude of the world change towards him. ... We need not wait to see what others do."
<apteryx>is there a way to get Bash completion to work inside a guix container?
<apteryx>(guix environment --container)
<apteryx>I tried --ad-hoc bash bash-completion my-package but my-package doesn't have completion.
<roptat>hi guix!
<civodul>Hello Guix!
<Gamayun>hey civodul
<civodul>better 'guix search' output!
<Gamayun>That looks good!
<bendersteed>indeed that looks cool, thanks
<rekado>civodul: great!
<rekado>civodul: “(cut > <> 0)” could just be “positive?”, no?
<roptat>civodul, looks nice :)
<civodul>rekado: yes, but that would break indentation :-)
<civodul>anyway, glad you like it
<civodul>nckx and others had said it before, and i realized how badly multiple regexps were handled
<rekado>was this ultimately triggered by the distrowatch review?
<rekado>ISTR they mentioned “guix search” as well
<roptat>or was it because you search for "perl crypto" in Strasbourg ? :)
<roptat>I've got this issue with the overdrive where I can't run guix pull, because it needs to build python-minimal, but it has a memory leak on some kernels, including the one on which the overdrive is running...
<rekado>roptat: IIRC nckx had the same problem
<roptat>how was it fixed (was it fixed?)
<rekado>I don’t know
<roptat>maybe running guix pull from a checkout? does "guix environment guix" need python?
<rekado>it probably does
<rekado>or at least it used to
<roptat>bad news for me then...
<rekado>it came in via a test suite (git?), but Danny rewrote the script in Guile
<roptat>oh, nice :)
<rekado>so there’s hope!
<roptat>but I'm stuck with this old version (0.16 I think)
<roptat>oh and I think I found how to prevent guix pull from suggesting to run guix pull
<roptat>I need to test it in a vm, but I think if we symlink .config/guix/current to /run/current-system/profile in /etc/skel, we're good
<rekado>wouldn’t “guix pull” then try to create a new generation for /run/current-system/profile?
<roptat>mh... good question
<roptat>I think it's treated as a special case, but I'm not sure, that's why I need to test in a VM
<roptat>"migrating profile generations to /var/guix/profiles/per-user/root"
<roptat>bah, "guix system vm-image" doesn't make a big image, I'm already out of space ^^'
<roptat>but it seems to be working
<roptat>now the issue is that if you run any other command, it's found through the current symlink, so after your first guix pull, you still have to run "hash -r" for every other command than guix itself
<roptat>so maybe the symlink should only be on the guix binary? but then I suspect guix won't try to replace $HOME/.config/guix/current if it's a plain directory
<rekado>what about adding “hash guix” to the skeleton’s shell initialization?
<rekado>(it would be excessive to force the shell to keep forgetting about the location of the “guix” command…)
<roptat>that's not the right place for it
<roptat>because it's only run once you start your shell, but you want to run it after guix pull
<roptat>"error while creating symlink '/root/.config/guix/current': File exists"
<rekado>what about using a symlink to just the “guix” executable and changing “guix pull” to deal with that case.
<rekado>we can clearly distinguish between a proper profile and a directory containing just a single symlink to “guix”
<roptat>mh... yeah, a profile is always a symlink
<roptat>but always removing a directory if it exists sounds a bit dangerous
<rekado>we wouldn’t remove a directory
<rekado>oh, well, we would.
<roptat>or we could have current -> initial and initial would be a directory
<roptat>with only a symlink to guix
<roptat>then guix will have no problem dealing with current
<rekado>and then we compare names to see in what case we are?
<rekado>“guix pull” would still try to treat “initial” as the location of a profile, so I do think we need to handle this separately
<roptat>I don't think so, before it failed with no more space, guix moved the symlink to point to /var/guix/profiles/per-user/root/current-guix
<roptat>(which itself was a dangling symlink to current-guix-0-link)
<civodul>welcome to #symlink! :-)
<civodul>rekado, roptat: the 'guix search' thing was triggered by these two complaints indeed, and prolly a few others :-)
<roptat>do you know how to resize the vm-image?
<civodul>what d'ya mean?
<roptat>its partition is too small to run guix pull
<roptat>I get no more space on device very quickly :)
<civodul>there's --image-size, but that's not really "resizing"
<civodul>that's in an image that you made?
<civodul>for the VM image we publish we use --image-size=30G
<civodul>plenty of room for "guix pull" and even chromium
<roptat>that's an argument to guix system vm-image, right?
<roptat>so after the first boot, 'which guix' says /root/.config/guix/current/bin/guix, let's see what happens after a guix pull
<civodul>you should use "type -P" instead of "which", to know the shell's idea
<rekado>(shouldn’t that be “type -P”?)
<roptat>oh, true
<roptat>but too late :p
<roptat>yeah it worked!
<roptat>after guix pull, type -P guix tells me /root/.config/guix/current/bin/guix
<rvgn>Hello Guix!
<g_bor[m]>rvgn: hi!
<rvgn>g_bor[m] o/
<rekado>civodul: I’m trying to reconfigure bayfront, but it fails to build librsvg.
<rekado>this is the error: /gnu/store/x54z4746npss80i663ij5mgpvyyyq9sg-gobject-introspection-1.56.1/bin/g-ir-scanner: /gnu/store/g87hamjyipk1j6dfq5pjfzfnfb64spbv-python2-2.7.15/bin/python: bad interpreter: No such file or directory
<rekado>didn’t you reconfigure it recently to remove “qualif”?
<rvgn>Hello Folks! 1) Is it safe to install Nix inside Guix System? 2) Should I use both package "Nix" and service "nix-service-type"? 3) If there is Nix Service running alongside Guix Service, wouldn't there be a conflict?
<nckx>1) That is certainly the intention 2) Yes, one provides the daemon, the other the commands 3) No.
<nckx>Disclaimer: I haven't run the newish Guix Nix service, but have run Nix on Guix System before.
*nckx 4) likes numbered questions.
<roptat>rvgn, it's supposed to work, guix and nix even use a separate store, so they shouldn't interfere with each other
<rvgn>nckx Thanks! 3) What would happen if I do "nix system init" or "nix system reconfigure" inside guix system?
<nckx>rvgn: Ehm, are these extremely hypothetical commands you just made up or has Nix changed *significantly* since I last used it?
<rvgn>nckx hypothetical. Never used Nix
<civodul>rekado: i tried and failed at the same point actually!
<roptat>rvgn, if you do that, it'll install nixos
<civodul>rekado: that error looks really weird, dunno what's going on
<roptat>replace guix system
<nckx>If Nix provides such commands now, the results would presumably be the same as when running ‘guix system init’ on a foreign distro: goodbye foreign bootloader, hello Guix [Nix in this case], but that's all very hypothetical 🙂
<rvgn>roptat Thanks! Regarding 3), my concern was things outside "/store". Like /etc, /bin and overlapping services like d-bus.
<nckx>NixOS doesn't provide that command. I've actually forgot how NixOS is installed o_O
<civodul>i don't think "nix system" exists, does it?
<roptat>rvgn, you're installing nix on a foreign distro, so I don't think it needs to do anything with system directories
<civodul>nckx: "back in the days" there was "nixos-rebuild"
<rvgn>nckx roptat So what it appears is, I will be safe if I use Nix ONLY as package manager inside Guix System. NOT as system manager. Am I on the right track here?
<nckx>civodul: Ooh, right. Sad that you remember that from longer ago than I don't 🙂
<nckx>rvgn: Yes.
*civodul removed a few items from the patch queue \o/
<rekado>civodul: much appreciated!
<nckx>rvgn: I don't think Nix provides ‘system’ sub-commands under the ‘nix’ command, so you'll be safe unless you invoke ‘nixos-foo’, which should be obviously incorrect.
<rekado>I saw a flurry of activity in my guix patches mailbox
*rvgn is thankful to nckx and roptat
<civodul>we're approaching 10K packages!
<rvgn>civodul Nice work :)
<nckx>Again, any Nix advice I give is both very well-informed and years out-of-date. 😛
<rekado>we could stave of the 10k by removing all the python2 variants…
<civodul>did you know that ~10% of the packages are R packages?
*rvgn is haunted by nckx's disclaimer xD
<nckx>civodul: I noticed that! Wondered if we'd do anything, or if it would only mislead outsiders somehow.
<civodul>we could remove python2-* and most of ecl-* in fact
<rekado>and then it would be 20% R packages
<nckx>‘Yeah but most of them are foo’, ‘10k isn't that many compared to Debian’, etc.
<civodul>we should go to an R conference or something to let 'em know
<nckx>rvgn: Chillax. Nix just redesigned their interface for 2.0, they didn't suddenly add shiny new sharp edges just for fun.
<civodul>nckx: yeah it's never enough, as Bob Smith says
<rekado>yeah, someone should go…
*nckx phears the HN crowd.
<civodul>i had someone at work use R stuff from Guix on the cluster recently
<rekado>oh, neat. I thought it was just people at the MDC.
<rvgn>nckx Cool! I justs didn't want to nuke my guix system.
<rekado>nckx: the HN crowd requires a lot of work.
<nckx>rvgn: The great thing about Guix and Nix is that you'll hardly ever (I never) run commands as root, so that risk should be very low.
<rekado>whenever there’s a Guix message it’s a rehash of the same questions and assertions.
<civodul>rekado: we're probably slowly but surely getting the message across though
<rekado>I lost many days repeating myself trying to clarify, correct, and manage expectations.
<rvgn>nckx Glad about that aspect of Guix/Nix
*rvgn gotta run
<nckx>I find it very draining to perform ‘advocacy’ in such spaces. Then I feel bad for not doing so. Rinse repeat.
<nckx>rvgn: o/
<rekado>civodul: about this bayfront error: should we just fetch substitutes from berlin?
<rekado>I’m in perpetual confusion about the status of bayfront, to be honest
<civodul>we should first find out which package is at fault
<rekado>nckx: same.
<civodul>presumably it's gobject-introspection
<civodul>but we should strace -f guix-daemon so see where that "bad interpreter" error comes from
<civodul>wanna give it a spin? :-)
<roptat>isn't it a store corruption?
<rekado>nckx: Reddit is worse, though. There’s a Guix sub-reddit and it seems to me that there is only one person who knows; all others are guessing or providing poor advice.
<civodul>could be
<rekado>should I just run “guix gc --repair=verify,contents”?
<civodul>that'll require substitutes, right?
<efraim>civodul, rekado: same gobject introspection python error on bayfront
<efraim>guix gc -R?
<civodul>efraim: you mean you hit the same issue?
<civodul>on your machine?
<rekado>I can run the referenced python directly
*rekado afk
*nckx puts on flame-retardant pants and visits r/Guix.
<civodul>"r/GUIX" even...
<nckx>Oy vey.
<nckx>civodul: I sent them a PM about that a year ago… ☹
*nckx was very friendly.
<civodul>apparently they won't change it
<efraim>Oh you were looking at bayfront, I've come across it there too, not on my machine
<nckx>I wouldn't know. I never got a response.
<efraim>Starting after The Big GC
<civodul>The Big GC?
<efraim>Two months ago? There was an email on guix-sysadmin that I didn't subscribe to
<nckx>Especially considering… the Other G***™, that orthographic confrontation is really best avoided.
*civodul goes stracing guix-daemon on bayfront
<bavier`>seems that linking with clang in the build environment now leads to 'ld: cannot find crt1.o: No such file' errors
<bavier`>e.g. building hedgewars
<bavier`>I wonder if this is just with clang@8
*bavier` afk
*nckx wondered whether rekado's IRC logs contained metaspam. Answer: they do, when they are the last lines, otherwise not.
<nckx>Just found it interesting, not a bug report.
<civodul>efraim: so the issue is that "/gnu/store/x54z4746npss80i663ij5mgpvyyyq9sg-gobject-introspection-1.56.1" has zero references, when it should have at least python
<efraim>I see
<civodul>hi quiliro!
<saslibre>quiliro: Kiel vi Fartas!
<quiliro>saslibre: saluton...mi fartas bone. ĉu vi finis instali Gnome-on?
*civodul runs "guix gc --verify=repair,contents" on bayfront, with substitutes from belin
<civodul>rekado, efraim: ↑
<roptat>can a channel override the CLI arguments (for instance adding a guix home subcommand)? :)
<quiliro>i am planning to advocate for guix to find future devs or other contributors in there a way to locate poeple that have potential to want to contribute to guix? What personality traits to look for?
<roptat>probably anyone who'se going to enjoy talking with you :)
<quiliro>good point! but i am not a very good company...not good at communication
<roptat>I don't think we're looking for any particular personality trait (except maybe we're looking for kind people)
<quiliro>so that is not me....i do not look kind at all...even though my intentions are the best
<jackhill>roptat: +1 yay kind people!
<nckx>Yeah, I was also going to say: people *you* enjoy talking to, since that'll make it much more likely that you'll spark enthousiasm and (eventually) self-motivation. In my case that'd be curiosity. Uncurious people are hell to enthuse.
<saslibre>quiliro: Kiel vi fartas!
<quiliro>saslibre: bone..dankon... vi ne sendas min la config.scm-o
<nckx>saslibre: Saluton. And that's all I can say.
<jackhill>quiliro: I'm sure everyone can be kind reguardless of their looks. The project you're doing of sharing something you think of neat with others is a way of being kind.
<saslibre>nckx: nice!
<roptat>quiliro, I agree with jackhill
<roptat>just talk about it with whoever is interested and you like to talk to, and they might become user and maybe even contributor naturally :)
<roptat>probably computer science students are a good audience if you can arrange with you local university to have a conference or workshop maybe?
<roptat>you'll probably have to be invited by students or teachers first though...
<g_bor[m]>roptat: hello!
<roptat>hi g_bor[m] :)
<g_bor[m]>How is the home as a profile thing working out for you?
<roptat>I still need more configuration, but it's mostly working fine
<roptat>I only have a small issue with pulseaudio
<roptat>I need to look at the code and maybe write a small patch for guix
<roptat>also, my shell starts in a directory that's not very useful :)
<nckx>roptat: ‘home as a profile’? I'm very curious because I don't understand it at all 🙂
<nckx>Thank you!
<roptat>basically it's like having a dotfile repository, but it's programmable and stateless
<roptat>and no application can modify your configuration, since it's read-only
<roptat>it makes your $HOME a guix profile with configuration and symlinks for directories that must be writable (.local, .cache, etc)
<nckx>Hum, and $HOME itself…?
<roptat>$HOME is a symlink to /var/guix/profiles/per-user/$USER/home
<roptat>so you have to put your data in another directory (/data/roptat in my case)
<roptat>it's very experimental, but it works :)
<nckx>Hm. I guess I didn't misunderstand it after all.
<nckx>It might be a bit drastic for my tastes.
<roptat>it's very similar to how system configuration is in the store in guix system
<roptat>just not as nice since applications sometimes want to store configuration outside of .config, so I can't just make .config a profile
<nckx>I don't really use GUI things, but doesn't this fuck with open/save/… file dialogues, etc.?
<nckx>& XDG_FRIENDS &c.
<roptat>it makes it slightly more difficult to find your files, but not impossible
<roptat>I mean it shows you your $HOME, not /data by default
<roptat>some can be configured though
<roptat>like firefox can be configured to download to /data by default
<nckx>Yeah, and I understand that changing too many things to look in /data/eddie will just cause more unwanted files to be helpfully put there.
<nckx>Your real name obviously being Eddie, no idea why I wrote that.
<nckx>I guess it is the same trade-off as /gnu: things will break, and by their breakage you shall know the misbehavers.
<roptat>yes, that's why I know pulseaudio is misbehaving :)
<roptat>just like hexchat, transmission and minetest for instance
<roptat>they all want to write data in .config :/
<roptat>guix also misbehaves: it writes data to .config and .guix-profile
<g_bor[m]><roptat "just like hexchat, transmission "> roptat: I like it. I will try this very soon :)
<roptat>the two profiles should be $XDG_DATA_DIR/guix/{guix-profile,current}
<g_bor[m]>roptat: what's wrong with pulseaudio?
<roptat>it doesn't want to start if $HOME is read-only :/
<roptat>I have to start it with HOME=/tmp/pa pulseaudio --start
<nckx>I've added & pulled the channel, but'll try it some other time.
<nckx>roptat: So what would $XDG_DATA_HOME point to in this case? A read-only directory or /data/.config?
<nckx>Or something else? My knowledge of the XDG_ family isn't great. I admit to lazily substituting $HOME/.{config,local,…} in my mind.
<roptat>right now it points to $HOME/.local/share, and .local is a symlink to a read-write directory
<nckx>I just don't understand why programmes writing to $WHATEVER/.config, as Guix does, is in any way wrong, unless the XDG spec says that they shouldn't.
<roptat>some applications don't read XDG_DATA_HOME and just hardcode $HOME/.local/share anyway
<roptat>.config is for configuration, not data
<roptat>think about using git to store your configuration, or like me, using a read-only directory :)
<roptat>also, you could remove the configuration to get default settings, but you might not want to loose your data
<roptat>right now removing .config/hexchat will loose your backlog for instance
<roptat>yay I'm getting popular on the fediverse :D
<nckx>You're right. I was again confusing _DATA_ with _CONFIG_ 🤦
<nckx>And let's just say it's too hot to have to parse language like at <>.
<g_bor[m]>roptat: I just had a look at pulse. It seems it would like to create a directory in home.
<g_bor[m]>Code related to this seems to be in pulsecore/core-util.c
*nckx .oO Pulse and the XDG spec were literally co-authored by the same individual.
<dongcarl>w/re #36346, I'm happy to also parameterize it by linux-headers
<dongcarl>are there procedures written to merge manifests?
<dongcarl>e.g. I wanna merge a packages->manifest and a specification->manifest
<Marlin[m]>Howdy guix
<Marlin[m]>I'm back home
*dongcarl waves
*nckx wavves.
<nckx>Is there an easy way to show from which channel each of my installed packages came?
<rvgn>Hello Guix!
<rvgn>nckx Does "rpm" require Filesystem Hierarchy Standard to run inside guix system?
<nckx>rvgn: It will certainly try to install any .rpm packages into their FHS location (so /usr, /bin, etc.). Not that I mind being pinged, but I'm not exactly an RPM specialist. I last installed one in 2000.
*jonsger only installed Guix with RPM, not other way round :P
<nckx>These paths are not in the $PATH of a default Guix System. But it should work, as long as you understand that it's your responsibility to manage these directories and not Guix's.
<rvgn>nckx Thanks!
<nckx>np, as the kids say.
<dadinn>hi all
<dadinn>i have noticed that the public key for hydra archives has changed from the key share/guik/ to I suppose this is just administrative and I would get the same content anyways
<vagrantc>hydra is going away
<sneek>vagrantc, you have 1 message.
<sneek>vagrantc, ilyaigpetrov says: Hi. I'm interested in installing guix sd (system) or guix (package manager) on RPi Zero WH. g_bor[m] advised me to ask you about it. Do you know more about porting efforts of guix to arm-linux-gnueabihf?
<dadinn>i meant that it points to the same hydra instance/content
<vagrantc>sneek: later tell ilyaigpetrov RPi boards require non-free firmware to work, so probably not a good candidate for guix
<sneek>Will do.
<nckx>vagrantc: All of them? ☹
<vagrantc>nckx: basically, yes
*nckx has an old rPi knocking about but hasn't done much with it. Oh. Shame.
<nckx>(It was a gift.)
<vagrantc>there was a freely implemented proof-of-concept, but i don't know if it's usable
<vagrantc>pretty good odds it'd run just fine
<nckx>dadinn: It doesn't (you'll see that the keys for and are very different, with Hydra's being a longer, older type.) berlin (which powers ci.) was always completely separate from
<nckx>So nothing has ‘changed’ from something to another; hydra is simply going away and you can safely remove the long key from /etc/guix/acl and hydra from your list of servers (if you added it manually, that is).
<vagrantc>or rather, presuming you treat boot firmware as outside of the scope of guix, you should be able to boot guix on most any RPI ...
<nckx>vagrantc: Fine with the free firmware or fine (if degraded) without any?
<nckx>Hm. Do I? I don't know 😛
<dadinn>nckx: but the public key for hydra is still included in the binary install. why? it got me confused
<vagrantc>if i remember correctly, the RPI boards first start the GPU, which requires non-free firmwares, and which then initializes the CPU and such...
<nckx>dadinn: Isn't the binary installer a stable 1.0.1 version? That would predate hydra's retirement.
<dadinn>nckx: is there a newer version?
<nckx>vagrantc: Yeah, that weird GPU-first thing is how I'd always understood it, but I'm no armhead.
<nckx>dadinn: No.
<nckx>Hydra was decomissioned this week.
<nckx>I don't know if civodul's planning a new release to address that.
<dadinn>nckx: but "hydra" sounded cool :P
<vagrantc>hydra came directly from nix, no?
<nckx>Hence why it was Perl and pretty much unmaintainable for a bunch of Schemeheads.
<dadinn>nckx: fair enough... so now everything is in guile?
<nckx>dadinn: It impressed my then-partner with its 1990's coolness at least.
<nckx>dadinn: Yes. WIP, but it works.
<nckx>Everything you see at is Guile.
<rubic>Earlier I'd asked a question about /usr/bin/env and now I see there's a documented workaround via extra-special-file:
<sneek>rubic, you have 1 message.
<sneek>rubic, nckx says: You might be interested in 2ea3bfe7cb0e7a080fb4797853cca5a5e4e75b38.
<nckx>rubic: Yep, I've used that forever and would like it to be added by default.
<nckx>There's an open bug to that effect.
<rubic>nckx: Yes, I've commented on that bug email.
<nckx>Oh, OK, thanks 🙂
<rubic>My pleasure. What's the sneek reference to 2ea3bfe7cb0e7a080fb4797853cca5a5e4e75b38 ?
<nckx>It's a git commit you were hoping to see some day.
<rubic>Cool, I'll check it out.
<nckx>gnu: Add volumeicon.
<rubic>Nice, thanks.
*jonsger tries again to setup a mail server with Guix :)
<dadinn>I am trying to run a script in chroot / systemd-nswapn jailed container, and it works well until one of the derivations fail to build during `guix pull` :(
<dadinn>it fails after saying "the following profile hooks will be built": wzdr6nd7cqca022jl3nwczai3wyhd6i-ca-certificate-bundle.drv
<dadinn>it says "error: while setting up the build environment: cannot set loopback inteface flags: Operation not permitted"
<dadinn>running it with sudo :/
<sebboh>hi you guix. Just wanted to let you know that sqlite appears on this list of packages twice:
<nckx>sebboh: Hm, my guess is that we iterate over versioned packages (we have both sqlite 3.24.0 and 3.26.0), but instead of using the associated version just query the package collection for the first package with that name.
<nckx>Or something.
<nckx>sqlite-with-column-metadata should have version 3.24.0, not 3.26.0. Something is definitely wrong…
<nckx>sebboh: Thanks.
<dongcarl>I'm looking at inferiors to make sure that people with newer Guix's can still build my manifests...
<nckx>dadinn: I guess Guix needs more permissions than your container allows its fake root user.
*nckx guesses things: a series.
<dongcarl>I'm looking for a procedure that takes in an expression that evaluates to a package and evaluates that expression in an inferior, creating an inferior package.
<dongcarl>Mainly using inferiors for compatibility
<nckx>sebboh: I've submitted it as bug 36394.
<sebboh>nckx, that's good and I appreciate you letting me know that my observation was useful. I wish I could share this whole interaction with some *other channels* that I've tried to share observations with in the past!
<notnotdan>really looking forward to the guix search improvements landing!
<notnotdan>it looks really nice
<nckx>sebboh: Well, I'd be more helpful if I actually *fixed* it, but I can't even follow which Web site is canonical these days… The newer is obviously different from your link but has the same bug. 🤷
<nckx>Sorry you had a suck experience, wherever it was.
<tune> any chance someone could package this? I believe there's no wayland-compatible clipboard manager yet and I heard this might work with wayland
<pkill9_>rekado: i submitted a patch for the service i made that allows you to run portable binaries built for most filesystem-hierarchy-standard distros, but it needs some work
<rubic>nckx: <- Is this a pretty good example of how I might package guix apps in the future? It looks pretty straightforward, even if I don't understand it 100%.
<arshin>tune: works for me under Sway. It is packaged.
<nckx>rubic: Sure. It's a good example of a relatively simple package that uses ./configure && make && make install.
<nckx>Other packages are a lot more complex or need a lot of annoying little hacks to behave. It depends.
<rubic>Cool. I'm not ready for packaging yet, but I'll bookmark that as an example.
<tune>arshin: that's like xclip, but I want something like clipit
<sfrantani>hello guix! i'm having troubles building guix: the build process terminates correctly but tests/builders.scm fails (this is the trace The problem seems to be a Guile 2.2 bug as show in . Is there any way to force the makefile to use Guile 2.9
<sfrantani>to build guix? Thank you a lot
<dadinn>nckx: I am also getting warning: setlocale: LC_ALL: cannot change locale (en_US.utf8)
<dadinn>nckx: what does that mean?
<roptat>dadinn, try to install glibc-utf8-locales
<roptat>(if that doesn't fix anything, try to replace en_US.utf8 with en_US.UTF-8 in /etc/systemd/system/guix-daemon.service)
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*rvgn decided not to install Nix on Guix System for using packages and to spend the time wisely by learning packaging for Guix. :)
<nckx>sfrantani: That would change the hash for the guix package anyway (and probably not work, judging by past Guile minor version bumps + Guix), so at that point you might as well just disable tests with ‘#:tests? #f’.
<nckx>IMO of course.
<sfrantani>i tried but the problem comes back at every command i give to guix
<sfrantani>so i thought it was caused by a bugged library linked at compile time
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<nckx>sfrantani: Is there something unusual about your build environment? (Which, unfortunately, includes not being on x86_64.)
<nckx>I'd also recommend building master, not because I know it fixes your problem but because there's no real reason to build a release version.
<nckx>(That said, I'm just deducing things from file names, don't know your goal.)
<sfrantani>nckx i'm building on arch, could this be it? I used Guile 2.2.5 to build Guix 1.0.1
<sfrantani>i'll try with master
<Marlin1113>hey guix
<Marlin1113>i started some packages for tor-browser, i2p and freenet
<Marlin1113>how should i deal with java packages? freenet doesn't use a makefile it seems
<Marlin1113>it uses gradle
<roptat>Marlin1113, we don't have gradle yet
<roptat>so the only solution is to use the ant-build-system and make it generate a build.xml for ant
<roptat>(it's another build tool for java)
<Marlin1113>oh, actually it seems that freenet gives you gradle, then you execute it like ./gradle jar to build freenet
<roptat>unfortunately, it's not possible to use that because 1) it's a bundled binary and 2) it needs to download stuff from the internet
<nckx>sneek: later tell sfrantani: I've only ever used Guix System to build Guix. I'm afraid chances of master fixing your issue are slim, but let's be optimistic.
<sneek>Got it.
<roptat>(I think the first thing this gradle does is to download itself from the internet)
<Marlin1113>hey nckx
<Marlin1113>i'm optimist that this week i'll get at least 1 (one!) package working :P
<nckx>Hi Marlin1113!
<roptat>there's a bit of documentation on the ant-build-system in the manual and tones of examples of its usage in the repo :)
<kristofer>hello guix! after my initial daemon offload setup I'm having an error: implementation cannot deal with > 32-bit integers
<janneke>kristofer: could this be it?
<civodul>hi kristofer!
<civodul>did you try "guix offload test" first?
<civodul>it can help with troubleshooting
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<kristofer>civodul: yes
<civodul>roptat: i think a channel can provide (guix scripts home)... for example :-)
<civodul>kristofer: it's likely to be what janneke wrote
<kristofer>oh, yeah that's definitely it.
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<civodul>i'm glad janneke remembered--it would have taken me another hour of debugging to re-discover it :-)
<kristofer>do both machines need to swap .pub and .sec with one another? I passed the .pub on to my the build machine, but not the other way around
<kristofer>janneke, civodul, thanks! that was an easy fix
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<janneke>kristofer: good, yw :)
<roptat>civodul, will it be picked up by guix though?
<civodul>yes, i think so
<civodul>there's a naming convention you have to follow
<civodul>(guix scripts home) must export a 'guix-home' procedure
<civodul>but that's about it
<Marlin1113>hey guix, i'm still really confused about (xorg-configuration)
<Marlin1113>i wanna pass some arguments to some devices (tearfree for my gpu, and the device ID for a graphics tablet)
<Marlin1113>usually i'd put it on xorg-conf. i'm trying to put it on extra-config
<Marlin1113>also trying to understand how to use multiple keyboard layouts
<Marlin1113>i'll send the config