IRC channel logs
2019-06-12.log
back to list of logs
<OriansJ>ngz: I am so triggered right now at how your existential objectivation of decimal points demeans the quixotic nature of the guix release method <nckx>ober: The Hurd, for one. BSD has been ‘discussed’ but no more than that, I think. <nckx>(But I'm afraid even Guix GNU/Hurd is far from usable.) <ober>nckx: thanks I'm interested in doing the leg work for netbsd. maybe replace guile with gambit :P <ober>only because of its portability <OriansJ>ober: I thought guile already runs on netbsd <nckx>And, transitively, on toasters. <OriansJ>(also isn't the bigger problem the build isolation which is currently Linux heavy) *ober hides his preference for gerbil <ober>honestly have not done any digging into the code enough to identify those items <ober>just wanted to weigh existing efforts <OriansJ>ober: well we certainly want you to succeed in your efforts <OriansJ>honestly getting guix to run on gerbil will probably find some pain points in guix if that is how you prefer to attack the problem (and are willing to help guix be more scheme portable) <nckx>All upstream efforts will be focused on Guile, though (even bootstrapping) so choose… well, guess, wisely. <nckx>We heavily and casually use things like ice-9 which I thought were Guile-only but maybe I'm totes wrong. <OriansJ>nckx: (actually the bootstrapping early stages will be Mes.c but that is a different question) <nckx>OriansJ: Oh, I didn't mean from scratch, no. <OriansJ>well the more portable the pieces, the easier it will be in the future it will be to update to guile 5.0 *ober asks as that is what he ment. <nckx>Just that anything not required to build Guile won't be worked on/maintained by the (small but not that small) Guix community, that's another extra weight on 1 person's shoulders, and that goes for everything. Even submitting patches upstream to Guix to make it more portable — and defending them — could probably be a full-time job. <OriansJ>nckx: so I guess we should encourage more people to start making guix better in other distros; so that in the end we win the hearts and minds of the other distros to help us <nckx>Not to say Guix would break portability on purpose, but stuff bit rots, and we churn hard. Example: Guix/Hurd 😛 <nckx>OriansJ: That is a positive message I can get behind. <OriansJ>small changes today make major waves of changes in the future <ober>thanks for the info. interested on both fronts. <OriansJ>I guess that is the thing that I never understood; when you tell someone going back in time and making a small change will have major impacts, people believe you but when you say the same thing about now; they act like such changes are impossible. <ober>is there much "guile only" flavored scheme in guix? <nckx>(Another example closer to home: Guix/i686. Breaks all the time. Just because so few people use/test it.) <ober>nvm, that goes without saying. <nckx>OriansJ: Hmm. Did you steal that from someone? 😛 <nckx>Or did Janneke use it in a talk? (I haven't heard you speak.) Sounds verrry familiar. <OriansJ>ober: nothing that couldn't be fixed with a little love every day <ober>was hoping a "we only use r7rs big!" <ober>guile makes more sense for native threads. <OriansJ>nckx: ^_^ it comes from the time machine <nckx>We use whatever happens to work and evaluate without errors on Guile. That's the truth. <nckx>For more, we need more reviewers and contributors (hint hint!) ☺ <ober>understood. so if we have a gnu.org email, how do we get a commit rights to savannah? *nckx doesn't mean ‘bad code’, NB. <nckx>ober: Contribute a while. Send in good patches. Get invited (or ask). <ober>and honestly osx might be my first place I'd work on. <nckx>It's basically ‘how do I get the key to the clubhouse’: trust. <OriansJ>*OriansJ didn't realize nckx's code could robs liquor stores, get face tatooes and ride a motorcycle* <nckx>Alternatively: people get tired of having to let you in. Pretty sure that's how I got commit access. <OriansJ>in short be a productive and helpful member of the community and people might start trusting you <nckx>OriansJ: Oh, my code can ride motorcycles, I even made a special storage unit for my ThinkPad. <nckx>The rest, uh, not so much. <nckx>sorry I'm having waking nightmares of Happy Gnu face tattoos did you say something <OriansJ>nckx: I think my x131e has a face tattoo addiction <nckx>(Now, the Guix logo, that reminds me of a different type of tattoo, but that is neither here nor there.) <nckx>OriansJ: That makes it sound like you stuck stickers on your actual screen <OriansJ>It got a Happy Gnu face tattoo on its Happy Gnu face tattoo on its Happy Gnu face tattoo ... *nckx 's new paddy has been sticker-free for a suspicious number of months now, wonder how long I'll last. <nckx>OriansJ: I dread to see the tattoo equivalent of a tail call then. <OriansJ>nckx: ^_^ faces on faces on faces on faces on faces <nckx>(Oh god, what am I, twelve. Sorry everyone.) <OriansJ>nckx: well is more literal than I was expecting (ass tattoo of an ass with an ass tattoo of... I think everyone gets the idea <OriansJ>atleast it isn't as bad as the tattoo a manager in OIG has (Microsoft OS/2 Warp forever) <OriansJ>It is one thing to put a sticker on a computer but it is a whole different thing to tattoo, one's self with a proprietary product <OriansJ>Heck even the OpenBSD or Subversion or gcc logo would have looked much better <nckx>I saw someone with a Debian (logo) tattoo once, but at least it gracefully degrades into outside of hacker circles. <nckx>s/into/into geometry/ or whatever I was going to say. <ober>wow ms warp? umm Microsoft dropped out long before warp. <nckx>OK, so I wasn't the only one who found that weird. <OriansJ>Hence living example of why having the ability to completely disregard everything your manager says is sometimes critical <nckx>If only everyone's decision-making ability was so easily assessed. <pkill9>specifically: (exception unbound-variable (value #f) (value "Unbound variable: ~S") (value (fhs-linker-config)) (value #f)) <pkill9>it's trying to build my local channel i think, which i added to the load path using the "add-to-load-path" guile function <au>Hello everyone, Guix newb here. I've got a minor problem. I'm using Guix as a package manager in my Trisquel system. It works great, but when I install an application, it doesn't show up in the list of programs in my start menu. I can run it via terminal, which is fine, but how do I go about making it show up in the start menu or as a desktop icon? <pkill9>au: you probably need to add ~/.guix-profile/share to your XDG_DATA_DIRS environment variable in either /etc/profile or ~/.profile (as long as your display manager sources it, it should source both those i think) <pkill9>well, it won't recognise the tilde i don't think, so use $HOME/.guix-profile/share instead <au>pkill9: Thanks! I'll give that a shot. <Gamayun>Hmm... I'm trying to package qtpass. When running qmake, qmake tries to run 'lupdate-qt5' and 'lrelease-qt5', which we have packaged as just 'lupdate' and 'lrelease' as part of qttools. I'd imagine this would affect anything using qtlinguist, but I can't anything in the package definitions addressing it... <bavier`>Gamayun: does the configuration honor the "QMAKE_LRELEASE" environment variable? <Gamayun>bavier`: Doesn't seem so. Setting it didn't make any difference. <bavier`>I see several workarounds in other packages; you might need to dig around in qtpass's configuration files to figure out the best way <Gamayun>system($$QMAKE_LUPDATE -locations relative -no-ui-lines $$_PRO_FILE_) <Gamayun>system($$QMAKE_LRELEASE $$_PRO_FILE_) <bavier`>instead of setting an env var, could you arrange to pass "QMAKE_LRELEASE=lrelease" as an argument to "qmake"? <Gamayun>bavier`: Well, that seems to work. Now it just needs to find the qmake configuration file defaults... :-) <nckx>Can anyone pull from Savannah? <nckx>Opening that URL in a browser works fine. <bavier`>well, actually, my "origin" is bavier@git.sv.gnu.org:/srv/git/guix.git <bavier`>idk if that's a different endpoint maybe <nckx>bavier`: The HTTPS version is proxied through nginx. <nckx>Thanks for reminding me that I have separate ‘url’ and ‘pushurl’ (same as your origin) set up. I'll try pulling from the push ☺ <nckx>‘Current branch master is up to date.’ *nckx goes to bed, then, if the universe is so clear about it. <NEET`>Hello, I'm trying to get set up to write guix packages, and I just ran ``make check''. I got 3 "FAILS". Do I really need to report this to bug-guix@gnu.org? <NEET`>bavier`: Alright, never used a mailing list before. <Gamayun>bavier`: Setting the env variable QMAKE to 'qmake' was enough to get it all working. <.< Seems a bit ugly though. <NEET`>Is it safe to upload the test-suite.log file? It shouldn't contain any sensitive information, right? I imagine they'd want a look at that file. <bavier`>Gamayun: oh, well, that seems easier :) <bavier`>NEET`: no, it shouldn't contain sensitive info <sebboh>I can use the guix I installed in a 'foreign distro' to do a guix system install onto the spare HDD in my machine, right? <sebboh>I seem to be stuck at 3.6.2 in the manual. 'command not found' on `herd start cow-store /mnt`... <leungbk>gtags --skip-unreadable --skip-symlink <leungbk>^ is this the right command for making gtags? <leungbk>i'd like to exclude the .c and .h files, but i'm not sure how <leungbk>with the command as i've entered it, i seem to only be picking up the .c and .h files; if i try M-x gtags-find tag, i only get results in .c and .h files <roptat>civodul, about leela, maybe we should ask other fsdg distros? <civodul>it's not always as productive as we'd like, though :-) <nothingmuch>civodul: guix pull appears to have sorted icecat font issues, my bad for forgetting to try that... thanks for your help yesterday <rain>what do i do with "recompilation needed" errors? i remember reading something about it in the manual but i can't find it <efraim>which was the paste service which blocks tor users? was it bpaste? <g_bor[m]>I have just seen a test failure in pack. Is that known? <efraim>ok, looks like dpaste blocks tor and bpaste is ok, I'll change the defaults <mbakke>rekado: Did you find time to look into the glibc 2.29/python thing? <kmicu>“European Processor Initiative will deliver key technologies to the new European HPC [High-Performance Computing] strategic plan for an independent and innovative European high-performance computing and data ecosystem,” just put Guix on it already! <civodul>rain: it's not in the manual, but it means you need to recompile :-) <rain>civodul, there is no Makefile, I have some package definitions I wrote that are on GUIX_PACKAGE_PATH and guix keeps complaining about ABI incompatibility <civodul>mbakke: no objection, i think carldong or yourself already pushed a similar fix elsewhere no? <roptat>could we add a hint for that maybe? <civodul>roptat: yes, maybe (guix ui) could catch that exception <civodul>g_bor[m]: test failure is not known until it's reported ;-) <civodul>kmicu: that rings a bell, do you have the URL? *jonsger sees strange errors with guix in a tumbleweed docker container... <jonsger>yes, because it's working in my normal environment <g_bor[m]>However now I have one in guix-build.sh. Two errors appear in the log: sed is unbound, and no build log for guile-bootstrap. <mbakke>civodul: Oh, great! Do you think we should cherry-pick them to core-updates? <civodul>kmicu: actually our lobbying team is on the picture! <civodul>they've been promoting Guix-HPC on RISC-V <mbakke>I have an update for 3.6.8, somewhere. <civodul>mbakke: it first has to be merged in GnuTLS, and then there has to be a release :-) <jonsger>civodul: guix package: error: build failed: opening directory `/gnu/store/p5q59xqmhwg60y2437fnny76nw7l6gbz-module-import': Permission denied while installing something, but in the docker container it has more permissions then on my normal computer... <civodul>kmicu: not really, though i talk to a colleague of mine who's more or less involved <jonsger>civodul: does guix already work on RISC-V? *kmicu should consider enabling pictures in w3m for moments like that. <civodul>jonsger: nope, i was kidding (it'd be nice to have though!) <kmicu>Some sweet EU grants could push Guix to the moon! <jonsger>I think cross compilation works now. I think I saw a commit about that <civodul>kmicu: GENCI recently decided to support... Spack <kmicu>Spack sounds like Snapp on Flatpack. <kmicu>After pushing Guix to the moon we could participate in EU-FOSSA and fix (potential) security bugs in Guix/Guile… <civodul>if the EU considers it important, it should employ people to work on it <civodul>you don't pay bills with random bounties <efraim>Medium vs low severity based on human interaction skills <efraim>I especially loved the "OMG YOUR CODE IS SHOWING" bug reports <Gamayun>roptat: leela? The go-playing software? <rekado_>while waiting for PiGx to build I wonder if we can prune references in ghc-pandoc <rekado_>it depends on *lots* of ghc-* packages, but I don’t know if all of them are really needed at runtime. <efraim>I've heard that Haskell packages are supposed to be statically compiled <mbakke>Hmm, Berlin appears to have garbage-collected some armhf staging substitutes, ISTR it had mariadb recently. <roptat>Gamayun, we have a pending patch for it, but there is some freedom-related concerns <roptat>leela itself is free software, but it's useless without weight data <roptat>which are non trivial and might not be considered non-functional, so they must also be free <roptat>but we can't reproduce that data either, because it's very random (so no bit-for-bit reproducibility), it's huge, and it takes an insane amount of time to train <roptat>and that's more a question about learning algorithms in general than this specific software <bandali>oh neat, looks like folks finally sorted out https for guix.gnu.org :) <EuAndreh[m]>Another question regarding mailing list etiquette: when people cite the previous email but comment with '[...]', what does that mean? It's like a manual read receipt? <jonsger>this docker error is machine specific <roptat>EuAndreh[m], I don't know if other people do that. It's just to cut things I don't reply to, so the email isn't too long to read <roptat>but it's good etiquette to read the email in full before replying ;) <rekado_>mbakke: we don’t usually run GC on berlin at all. I certainly have never run it. <Gamayun>roptat: Curious... I guess it would be good to figure out what it takes for that type of data to be sufficiently respectful of the four freedoms... <bandali>so, with this sorted out, are there any plans to redirect gnu.org/s/guix to guix.gnu.org? <mbakke>rekado: Derp, I think I confused it with Mesa... Will merge once mariadb is OK for armhf. <EuAndreh[m]>roptat: Instead, can I just cut off the parts I wouldn't answer? <civodul>it would be good to "do something" with guix.gnu.org such that it's in sync, or supersedes gnu.org/s/guix <bandali>re redirect: i (or any other gnu webmaster) could help with that if ludo opens a ticket at webmasters@gnu.org <rekado_>civodul: yes, I think we should have gnu.org/s/guix redirect to guix.gnu.org <jonsger>rekado_: is guix.gnu.org already the offical home page? <civodul>we'll need to map all the existing URLs to the new ones <bandali>civodul, :) indeed, having one-to-one redirects would be ideal <bandali>i *think* we could do that; i’ll check <civodul>there are some pages on gnu.org/s/guix that are not on guix.gnu.org i think, in particular pages that serves as redirect from old URLs <civodul>for example, manual/html_node -> manual/en/html_node <bandali>having a list of such redirects would be very helpful <roptat>I'm alpha testing the ocaml bootstrap :) <roptat>fun fact: it needs 2GB of stack space <roptat>and takes ~ 10 hours to compile :) <civodul>roptat: developed by the ocaml folks? <civodul>bandali: everything under news/, and everything that matches "http-equiv=.*refresh" :-) <g_bor[m]>I have a header only library dependency in one of the projects I am trying to package. What is our current way of dealing with that? <bandali>civodul, thanks! is that all? if so, could you send a simple email about redirection request to webmasters@gnu for the record? <bandali>also, i’m assuming guix.gnu.org pages aren’t/won’t be managed through the usual savannah cvs repos? <roptat>civodul, by a future PhD student of Xavier Leroy :) <playX>guys,I installed neovim and need to use YouCompleteMe but for this plugin I need neovim with python3 support,how I can install neovim with python support? <playX>In arch linux I just installed python-neovim package <roptat>playX, oh I have a package definition for that, I need to push it! <roptat>if you can wait, I'll do that this evening <AndreasL>I try to use guix under Xubuntu 18.04 but having problems with non ASCII caracters <roptat>I don't have access to my private key right now <g_bor[m]>To be more clear, the build tries to download the source from a git repository, which fails. I guess I could simply do a native input origin, and be done with it... But it seems like it would be great to have a package to reference... <playX>roptat,it will be good, I will wait! <AndreasL>still got problems with LibreOffice and zsh <rekado_>bandali: yes, the pages would be managed without the Savannah CVS. <playX>roptat,you got package definition for YCM or for neovim? ) <civodul>roptat: awesome! i discussed bootstrapping briefly with Gabriel Scherer and there seemed to be ongoing work, that's good! <roptat>it still has a dependency on ocaml, but at least it has a clear architecture, and the part that still depends on ocaml is going to be rewritten in C <roptat>and so, I'm compiling an ocaml compiler with this, to check for reproducibility by comparing with the build of the author of that interpreter :) <kmicu>And then we can move tests to OCaml microkernels and execute 1000 system tests per second! <roptat>when the bootstrap is completely freed of the ocaml dependency, I'll write a guix package *kmicu ಠ_ಠ +"third_party/pffft" ;the "FFTPACK" license, similar to BSD-3 *kmicu wonders how mbakke finds the strength to constantly fix that Chromium krefuffle. <AndreasL>Can someone tell me how can I submit a new bug ? <dutchie>just send an email to bug-guix@gnu.org <AndreasL>Should I send an email to guix-patches@gnu.org or is there another method ? <AndreasL>this information is not really easy to find <AndreasL>and guix website neither (or I didn't see it) <roptat>it does: in help -> see all mailing lists -> bug reporting <roptat>but you have to know that you need to find a mailing list name first :) <AndreasL>ok sorry I'm just not really used to mailing list bug report <playX>How I can enable intel tearfree ? <playX>removes tearing on intel video cards <sammich>Hey, how come the guix llvm package is at 7? is there blockers to upgrading to 8? <bzp>use i3 and install lxappearance and arc-theme to standardize gtk themes but arc-theme does not appear in lxappearance. How do you change themes gtk in guixsd? <sammich>jonsger: oh, cool. how often does core-updates get merged to master? is it on a new release basis? <jonsger>sammich: it's not connected to a new release, usually maybe every month or two, but I think at the moment we don't merge it that often :( <jonsger>playX: I think the error explain well what you have to do. At the top of your file you need to add "xorg" to the list of package modules <playX>I already have this line: `(use-service-modules desktop networking ssh xorg) <jonsger>playX: this are services, you need to add it to the package modules :P <roptat>this: (use-package-modules xorg) <roptat>(well with the rest of your package modules ;)) <playX>Wait, now I get this : /etc/config.scm:50:25: Wrong type to apply: #<package xf86-video-intel@2.99.917-13.6afed33 gnu/packages/xorg.scm:2920 2d20420> <roptat>try (modules (list xf86-video-intel)) <roptat>not (modules (xf86-video-intel)) <dongcarl>Hey all, what's the best way to execute an expression in the `guix repl` and get its string output when scripting? <dongcarl>the expression I wanna run should return a string, which I want on stdout <civodul>dongcarl: you're scripting in some language other than Guile, right? <civodul>i suppose you could do "echo EXP | guix repl"? <civodul>or you can try "guix repl -t machine" <civodul>(or you can replace Bash with Guile :-)) <dongcarl>I'm wondering if someone can explain to me what the difference between `guix environment` and `guix system container` is <roptat>guix environment only builds a package profile, while guix system container builds a full system with services <dongcarl>I want to set a few environment variables programmatically in guile, I'm guessing that's only possible with the full system? <playX>roptat, when you will update neovim to support python I just need reinstall neovim on my system? <roptat>playX, you will only have to install python-neovim <leungbk>`gtags --skip-unreadable --skip-symlink` <-- is this the correct way of generating gtags for the guix repo? when calling this from the project root, it seems like the .scm files are skipped over. *str1ngs ls: command not found :P <playX>How I can install LLVM and Clang to make meson see these libraries? meson.build:7:0: ERROR: C++ library 'LLVM' not found <playX>nvm, changed meson.get_compiler('cpp').find_library('llvm') to dependency('llvm') and everything works now :) <playX>when LLVM 8 and clang 8 will be available? :D <playX>(works in Arch Linux with clang 8) <quiliro>the point is that i have an issue with video <saslibre>I'm trying to install guix in debian, as a binary... <saslibre>But i get and error verifying the GPG key Signature <saslibre>gpg: keyserver receive failed: Server indicated a failure... When i try to add the key, with the command: gpg --keyserver pool.sks-keyservers.net \ <saslibre> --recv-keys 3CE464558A84FDC69DB40CFB090B11993D9AEBB5 <bavier>saslibre: glad you figured it out <saslibre>There's an observation i would like to make about the manual... <saslibre>Decompressing the file that is downloaded on the user directory is not possible when you are on the /tmp directory <saslibre>It's trivial, but it would be good to specify, to move the guix binary to the /tmp directory <quiliro>the manual's to decompress the binary on a foreign distro will not work as it is <roptat>sorry, my client disconnected, did anyone answer before the last two lines of quiliro? <roptat>maybe we should add (assuming you've downloaded the tarball in /tmp) for instance? <roptat>or replace guix-binary-1.0.1.system.tar.xz with /path/to/guix-binary-1.0.1.system.tar.xz maybe? <saslibre>Or add "mv /home/$USER/$guix-binary-package /tmp/" <roptat>saslibre, I just pushed a patch to the manual. The website will only be updated when we release the next version though <roptat>quiliro, can you share your config? <roptat>sneek, later tell playX you can run guix pull and install python-pynvim now (that's the new name for python-neovim) <roptat>I hope I remember the name right ^^ <roptat>can you explain what the issue is, exactly? <roptat>do you have any log, or error message? <quiliro>there is a black screen and the numlock led blinks <quiliro>where can i find a log? searched on /var/log/ <quiliro>it is guix system not on a foreign distro...so i have no .local <sneek>Welcome back playX, you have 1 message. <sneek>playX, roptat says: you can run guix pull and install python-pynvim now (that's the new name for python-neovim) <sammich>You could use that until the official version updates <playX>when official version will be updated? Is there any information? <jonsger>playX: for what purpose do you need llvm@8? <playX>I developing compiler and some functions I use from LLVM 8 and Clang 8 <playX>I use LLVM for code generation <jonsger>hm oke, then you could build Guix from git from the core-updates branch and then with ./pre-inst-env guix environment llvm@8 you should have what you want <playX>I already building llvm from guixpkgs repo :/ <roptat>quiliro, ah, maybe in /var/run/gdm or something then? <roptat>quiliro, /var/lib/gdm/.local/share/xorg/ maybe? <recj>when i try to install my package from file to test that it works, it does nothing <recj>i've tried `guix package --install-from-file=foo.scm` <str1ngs>recj: you can use short flag -f . also add the package name at the end of the file <recj>when i do strace, things seem normal, but when listing install packages, the package doesn't show up, and neither does any information about the different stages of installing the package <recj>i see, so guix install -f foo.scm ? <str1ngs>yes, but you need to add the name of the package at the end of the file <recj>it says f is an unrecognized option <recj>guix package -f ./softether.scm softether <str1ngs>did you add the package name to the end of the file? <recj>guix package: error: softether: extraneous argument <str1ngs>in the actually file. like echo "package-name" >> ./foo.scm <recj>thank you, now i can work toward fixing it :-) <ishmael>any tip for defining a package that requires both cargo and cmake to be compiled? <str1ngs>cmake is part of Guix just add it as an input <str1ngs>if so you can use cargo-build-system <ishmael>like 99% is C++ and less than 1% is Rust code <str1ngs>so just a cmake project? not autotools? <playX>building llvm from source takes soo many time :( <nckx>playX: You can offload to a more powerful machine if you have one with (‘guix offload’, some assembly required) or just wait for the build farm to catch up. *str1ngs offloads to nckx's PC :P <playX>I'm building package from unofficial repository :D *nckx 's PC is from 2012 tho'. <nckx>playX: Well, you buy a build-your-own-car kit, you get to build your own car. We can't really help you there 😛 <nckx>You can't have it custom and pre-built. <rvgn>Just curious. Is it possible to use LVM with Hurd Kernel, regardless of neither of them available in guix? <str1ngs>hurd kernel can't even handle 64bit so.... <str1ngs>I think you might have to research that yourself though. It's hard to say what state hurd is <nckx>Still feels like a supercomputer on my lap. Perspective is everything. <rvgn>nckx which was your previous one? <nckx>str1ngs: But yeah thanks for not setting said lap on fire with your daily Webkit build thanks. <quiliro>roptat: those directories do not exist <nckx>rvgn: The super-not-great Acer v5. But it was a gift (yay ∞ performance/price ratio), very portable, and was tolerable with 8 GiB and an ath9k added. Just… offload all the builds. <quiliro>i am checking for X11 errors on /var/log/messages <str1ngs>nckx: thankfully I have not had to rebuild wekbit in awhile. though qtwebengine was worst. I cant really complain <nckx>This is a ThinkPad X230T @ 16 GiB and a USB WiFi dongle (…foo ☹). <nckx>str1ngs: It's basically the same with the ‘old’ keyboard. Which is nice, but not previous-generation CPU nice. <str1ngs>I need to either flash the bios or get a wifi dongle for mine <nckx>Also I fully admit to buying the last of the gimmicky stylus+touchscreen+rotating screen line because how can you not ♥ <str1ngs>I'm currently not using it much so not guix on it right now. I think next month that will change. <roptat>quiliro, so gdm was never run... <nckx>I'm going to use Coreboot + Linux kexec, in some speculative future where I actually have the time. Which will still be sooner than GRUB adds LUKS2 support, or decrypts a LUKS1 volume. <roptat>quiliro, can you access a tty from the guix system? <str1ngs>coreboot sounds great. I'm just worried about bricking my notebook though :( <nckx>str1ngs: Resign yourself to using a hardware clip, you'll thank yourself later. No bricking. Required to run ME-cleaner anyway. Once flashed, you can just use flashrom anyway, or disable that for bonus securiteez pointz. <str1ngs>nckx: I'll look into it when I have time. <roptat>quiliro, can you run herd status then? <quiliro>in fact i am on the target machine chatting with you <nckx>str1ngs: We'll see each other in the same hypothetical future then. <quiliro>roptat: i am on an old version without X11 <quiliro>because the system does not let me tty when i boot that version <quiliro>maybe i could get a basic login and make it not launch gdm <nckx>In the meantime I have sufficient heart-eyes about the machine to not care much about the ME & dongle. This will change. <quiliro>how can i do that? 'single' on GrUB? <str1ngs>nckx: I think I'll always have heart-eyes for my x220 <quiliro>str1ngs: are you going to give it up? <nckx>‘You still gon' eat that?’ <quiliro>how much do you want to sell it for? <nckx>(No judgment, that's how I got that v5…) <quiliro>it is the best laptop tyhat can work with free software <quiliro>i cannot login to my riseup mail account without a gui....would someone please help me get this computer enter the gui? <nckx>quiliro: So it doesn't have a Wi-Fi whitelist? Cool. <nckx>That was re: ‘it is the best laptop tyhat can work with free software’, presumably the x220. <quiliro`>i thought you were talking about my current gui problem <str1ngs>quiliro: never going to give it up! ♪♫♬ <nckx>quiliro`: I don't think I'll be much help debugging X11… Have you opened a bug with all error messages (if any) and symptoms? That's the best advice I can give. *nckx got rickrolled last week. In 2019. We're stuck with this until the robot apocalypse. <str1ngs>re rebot apocalypse. John Connor : The future's not set. There's no fate but what we make for ourselves. <quiliro>nckx: besides reporting....where do you recommend investigating why my video driver is not working? <nckx>quiliro: I'd just stare at /var/log/{Xorg.0.log,messages} (in that order) until anything hits me. <nckx>This is why I am not a professionally paid debugger.™ <nckx>Nor even a amateurishly-paid one. <nckx>So deffo include any seemingly relevant (!) bits in your bug report. <nckx>quiliro: An under-paid sociologist. <quiliro>nckx: by under paid...you mean that you do as you wish and do not like to obey the master? <nckx>quiliro: I prefer your (some would say euphemistic) phrasing 😃 <nckx>Your words may come disconcertingly close to those used in a recent discussion with my partner, though. *nckx goes to consider things while eating → food. <quiliro>i have found that only people that do as their master wisshes or trick their master to think they do are well paid. <quiliro>feelings can only be engaged when expressing them as such rather than by logic, otherwize there are disagreements <quiliro>'i feel ....' instead of 'this is...' <recj>/home/rod/my-guix-packages/mozc.scm:74:7: In procedure inputs: <recj>error: ibus: unbound variable <recj>ok so i'm getting this for my propagated-inputs but i know the package name <nckx>quiliro: Option #2 sounds good, how do I social skills. <nckx>(To be fair, her other argument was that I spend the money I do get on expensive Japanese racing machines, which is a fair point.) *nckx pretty sure this is not #guix-offtopic, sorry. Find anything useful in your logs, quiliro? <quiliro>gdm: gdm_session_set_environment_variable: assertion 'value != NULL' failed <roptat>recj, guix package -A ^ibus$ tells me you have to (use-modules (gnu packages ibus)) <quiliro>as the #emacs topic says: Emacs questions take priority over off-topic chatter, so ask! <roptat>quiliro, that reminds me of something... <roptat>I think it was after reconfiguring with sddm and the reconfiguring back to gdm <roptat>there must be some state somewhere that's wrong <roptat>I didn't bother to investigate further, because I could just reinstall guix from the start, since it was a very new system <quiliro>this is a very new system but the installer does not have good video either <quiliro>so i installed bare-bones from scratch and reconfigured to i3 <quiliro>it had no problem with my previous sytem <recj>how to i know whether something is a gnu package <recj>seems all are except qtbase <quiliro>i just wanted to test installation again <quiliro>recj: guix package -s name_of_package <roptat>recj, every package is in (gnu packages something) <roptat>the output of the command I ran is: ibus 1.5.20 out gnu/packages/ibus.scm:58:2 <roptat>gnu/packages/ibus.scm tells you the name of the file where the variable is defined, then you replace / with spaces and remove the .scm, put parenthesis around that, and that's the module name you need to include <roptat>gnu/packages/ibus.scm -> (gnu packages ibus) <roptat>when you look for qtbase, you find gnu/packages/qt.scm so (gnu packages qt) <nckx>Hmm. Does anyone here use custom OPTIONS to mount / in their system .scm? I've just noticed that mine seem to be ignored. <roptat>I think I saw a bug report about that, but I'm not sure <quiliro>i will reboot as 'single' user (without X11)...i could do that with initd <quiliro>i hope guix supports that on grub too <nckx>quiliro: Guix does not provide a magical GRUB entry for that, no. <quiliro>what happens if i boot grub with the ''single' parameter on the kernel line? <roptat>probably nothing special, unless the shepherd supports run levels <nckx>quiliro: Probably nothing. Single user mode is an old SystemV thing, which itself is just a hack upon runlevels (‘1’), but doesn't really describe what it does. I think systemd emulates it with a target. Shepherd doesn't. <quiliro>or put another way, how can i modify a non acccessible version of the system without running its X11? <nckx>Probably not. So your computer freezes completely? <quiliro>rather: how can i modify a non acccessible version of the system so it does not run its X11? <janas>I was playing around with the mpd service to try and figure out the pulseaudio bug, and I realized that for some reason when the service is started from herd it fails to connect to pulseaudio, but when I start the daemon from my terminal (same user, same binary, same config) it connects to pulseaudio successfully. I have no idea what could be going on, I'd appreciate any ideas people have. <quiliro>but it does not freeze on the previous version of system reconfigure <recj>wow do i really have to add every single gnu packages if it has a lot of dependencies ? <nckx>quiliro: Can't you edit your system.scm from that generation? You can still get Xorg.0.log.old and /var/log/messages from there, too. <quiliro>freeze..i do not know....but the numlock led blinks and i have a blank screen with no possibility of openning ttys...perhaps i could activate sshd and connect from another machine <recj>like for each package that is a dependency, should there be a use-modules <nckx>janas: Which shepherd? The system instance? <roptat>that's why some files have so many #:use-module at the beginning <quiliro>janas: herd is managed by root....did you start mpd as a normal user? <nckx>janas: My guess would be that the system mpd tries to talk DBUS to the user's pulseaudio and fails, or otherwise can't find it, but I don't quite understand why that would happen. I think rekado_ (sorry for pinging if not) uses mpd. <nckx>recj: Yes, but there aren't as many modules as there are packages. <nckx>There are an awful lot, though. <nckx>quiliro: Yeah, that's a kernel panic. <quiliro>maybe if i update guix with guix pull and redo the reconfig <nckx>I have my kernel set to log panics to the (EFI variable) storage at /sys/fs/pstore, which is super handy (you can read dmesg from a crashed kernel!) but I don't know if the Guix kernel can do that. <janas>nckx: yes, the system sheperd <janas>quiliro: In the mpd service config I set it up to run under my user account, not root <nckx>janas: Our mpd-service should definitely work ‘out of the box’ so I welcome you to open a bug report. <nckx>quiliro: You talkin't to me? <janas>nckx: Thanks for the info, I'll try to file a bug report tonight <nckx>quiliro: Didn't know if you meant janas_ or me ☺ I haven't seen it, no. <nckx>quiliro: So your problem isn't that you changed your configuration file and X broke, but that you updated (guix pull && guix system reconfigure or whatever) and your old configuration no longer works? <nckx>So editing your configuration won't work, is that what you mean? *nckx 's having a very hard time concentrating at the moment, sorry. <quiliro>nckx: i had a working installation....formated and reinstalled...1.0.1 screwed everything ...even the boot usb did not have good video <quiliro>so i installed manually a barebones config <nckx>janas: You could try running mpd from a terminal as your user, I don't know off-hand if it has a --verbose or --debug option. <quiliro>then reconfigured with a light-desktop config <nckx>quiliro: Of course not, you didn't enable the crash-my-box-hard-service. This isn't a configuration problem. It's (probably) not even a Guix bug, but an upstream driver update gone bonky. <quiliro>so my configuration file is correct? <nckx>quiliro: If you can't extract anything useful from the log files I mentioned above because the kernel dies before they can be flushed to disc, this is what I use & described above: https://lwn.net/Articles/434821/ <nckx>What you described above (frozen box, blinking keybroad LED) sounds like it. <quiliro>because i can see this message on /var/log/messages <quiliro>gdm: gdm_session_set_environment_variable: assertion 'value != NULL' <nckx>Presumably not being able to ‘ctrl+alt+F5’ or whatever, as I'm sure you've tried. <nckx>quiliro: Aside from your classic panic symptoms, that error message does ring a bell. <quiliro>exactly...but still registered logs and restarted correctly with C+M+Supr <recj>hmmm, it says make is an unbound variable even yhough i did #:use-module (gnu packages base) <nckx>Oh, OK, not a panic then (who flashes keyboard LEDs in user space???). <nckx>(quiliro: My previous keyboard was French or it would have taken me a bit longet to get that ☺ ) <nckx>recj: It is. Try gnu-make. *nckx could have sworn there'd read ‘blah blah GDM blah blah assertion NULL failed blah’ on a Guix ML somewhere but can't find it ☹ <recj>says no code for module gnu-make <nckx>recj: The variable, not the module. base is correct, the variable is called gnu-make. <nckx>(Why? I don't know. We call BIND ‘isc-bind’ to avoid shadowing Guile's ‘bind’ procedure, but there doesn't seem to be a ‘make’. Maybe there is, maybe there's another reason, maybe there's not.) <nckx>quiliro: As much as I don't mind ‘helping’ you here, I don't think I'm of much help. I don't use GDM, and I never have. I still think a bug report with relevant excerpts of your logs will have the best chance of finding someone who does. <quiliro>how do you watch movies or see photographs? <quiliro>i will now test my config commenting ;; (initrd-modules '("pata_via" "pata_acpi")) <recj>that's fine... i just didn't know <bavier>nckx: 'make' is from GOOPS, so 'gnu-make' for the package <nckx>I use slim to log myself in (no password — I've already entered my LUKS passphrase twice, thanks). I don't use %base-services, or whatever provides GDM. <nckx>bavier: I thought we didn't use GOOPS in Guix, but I guess that may change soon anyway. <bavier>nckx: yeah, I wonder if maybe at some early time we did. <bavier>I wouldn't mind avoiding it indefinitely, though I could be convinced otherwise <nckx>(bavier: in case you hadn't read, the current ‘guix deploy’ design will.) <bavier>but, "it seemed like the easiest thing to use at the time" doesn't quite cut it for me <bavier>nckx: right, and I'm skeptical that's a good long-term decision <nckx>That's just eerily close to ‘it seemed like a good idea at the time…’ *nckx is not disagreeing. <ngz>What's wrong with GOOPS? *nckx is not a language nerd; runs away. *nckx returns with popcorn. <ngz>Oh. This is a genuine question, I'm not arguing at all. *nckx puts the popcorn away; they lurk in #devuan anyway. <bavier>ngz: the rest of Guix uses records heavily; I'm worried that adding GOOPS into the mix will confuse things <bavier>code style, pattern-matching, etc <ngz>So, that is mostly about consistency with the current code base. There is no technical reason? <recj>what is the name of the gcc package <recj>just building, it says the command `cc` was not found in the build phase of my package <nckx>gcc in code for a compiler, gcc-toolchain for a ‘usable’ compiler. <bavier>ngz: GOOPS comes with some additional runtime overhead, iirc <nckx>recj: You need to set CC=gcc, or its equivalent. <bavier>and developer productivity is a technical reason <nckx>gcc is already included by default, no need to add it to native-inputs unless you need a specific non-default version. <recj>really? when i just try guix install gcc it says backage not found <nckx>That's the dichotomy I was talking about above. <recj>rod@antelope ~$ guix install gcc <recj>guix install: error: gcc: unknown package <nckx>bavier: This is about: it says the command `cc` was not found in the build phase of my package *kmicu avoided EIEIO like fire and now you tell us that we have Chupa Goops in Guix? <nckx>recj: No need to paste the command, I know & I'm not a fan of the situation myself. <civodul>bavier: the overhead is probably not that bad these days, but i'm a bit concerned as well <civodul>OTOH define-gexp-compiler implements methods "by hand" in a way... <recj>how do I set CC=gcc in the process, just the invoke <nckx>recj: Since you mentioned make (that is also a default input, by the way, why did you need it?), it sounds like your package respects # <nckx>* #:make-flags (list "CC=gcc") <nckx>grep gnu/packages/*scm for examples. <nckx>Not saying it's wrong, but it's unusual. <nckx>recj: Only if that doesn't work, you can try (setenv "CC" "gcc") in a new phase. INVOKE isn't useful here. <bavier>civodul: I can imagine improvements in the compiler lately have affected GOOPS runtime <bavier>I don't want to be the crotchety old guy who doesn't like change, but I'd like a more reasoned argument before straying from the norm here <recj>it seems to work, nckx, now I'm just adding some more dependencies that i figured out from the build log lol <recj>also where even is /gnu/packages because the only folder i see is /gnu/store <nckx>I assume you have some Guix checkout around if you're writing packages. <recj>i actually don't think i do <recj>i pretty much just followed whatever was in the packaging tutorial <nckx>If you don't, it's handy to have as a reference. We have idioms and style like every other project, and many problems have been solved in another package before. <recj>well i would like to check it out <recj>i think it could be useful to get a feel for the idioms and style <nckx>Packages are categorised in modules in gnu/packages. <nckx>For example, a ‘grep -C5 CC=gcc’ there will give you many examples of its use ☺ <nckx>Don't use ‘(delete 'check)’ but ‘#:tests? #f’, stuff like that. Not the best example but who has time to come up with those. <recj>ok, should i clone it into a specific directory? <nckx>recj: Wherever you want. It's not used for anything, unless you build and run it, but that's not for now. <recj>ok, so i'll just put it in my ~/git with everything else. i thought maybe there was a specific place to put it that would be recognized by guix <nckx>You could configure ‘guix pull’ to pull from file:///home/recj/git/guix instead of gnu.org, if you'd want, but that's a different quest and not required to package things. <quiliro>i replaced (initrd-modules '("pata_via" "pata_acpi")) <quiliro>with (initrd-modules (append (list "pata_via") <quiliro> what is the diif between those two? <nckx>Oh, I missed (heh) the missing %base-initrd-modules. <quiliro>so you mean the first one will remove a whole bbunch of modules? <nckx>Oh yes. That could certainly cause your boot to fail. <nckx>Well, not remove, just not give you any. You're on your own, so to speak. <nckx>How did you end up with that to begin with? <nckx>I didn't spot that, sorry. <quiliro>working osn rohdto xg-serveud hrtpgdm <nckx>quiliro: See default-initrd-modules in gnu/system/linux-initrd.scm for the full list. <nckx>quiliro: Didn't you say you booted this system without X without error? Or that you based it off of the .tmpl? Then it shouldn't have made a difference, but well, who knows. <quiliro>i reconfigured and had the same video problem even before restarting <quiliro>aparently it starts the X server when reconfiguring <quiliro>how can i make the X server not start <nckx>I was just looking that up myself. I don't know. <quiliro>what happens if i comment out: (services %desktop-services) <quiliro>will that avoid that xorg start automatically? <nckx>quiliro: It will avoid xorg staring at all, even at reboot, if that's what you want (is that want you want?). You'll get a non-graphical system that will probably boot just fine, but there won't be a ‘herd start xorg’ or anything. There's unfortunately no way yet to add ‘disabled-by-default’ services in an OPERATING-SYSTEM, or I missed it being added. <nckx>You stare at X. It does not stare back. <nckx>So you'll have the i3 command available in your text console. It won't do anything. <quiliro> (list (specification->package "i3-wm") <quiliro> (specification->package "nss-certs")) <nckx>i3 is a package, you'll be able to run i3 in a text-mode VT, but it won't magically start X for you. <nckx>It will say ‘error: no display’ and die. <bzp>hello everyone, how do i change themes in guixsd, i use i3 <quiliro>bzp did you check i3 web page or forum or chatroom? *nckx assumes bzp means ‘how can I install additional GTK themes on Guix’, since that lxappearance thing only lists the default Adwaita. *nckx tries installing a random (arc-)theme. <nckx>bzp: Installing tango-icon-theme gives me Tango as a new Icon choice (quelle surprise), I don't know the names of any ‘full’ theme. But the paths seem to be set up to search in all the right places. <nckx>I assume GTK supports themes somewhere in ~/ too if you want to use an unpackaged one. <quiliro>nckx: i can confirm that i3 was installed and it could not be started as ysu said 