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<str1ngs>also with anki you would need python qtwebenine package.
<recj>ok thanks. i'll take a look
<str1ngs>hopefully that helps.
<recj>i'm sure it will
<str1ngs>an added caveat qtwebengine may not be included in Guix without major reworking. so this is highly unofficial
<erudition>so how would a user go about installing a simple little piece of software like "pithos"? Guix doesn't appear to have it, but it's in just about every other distro, so is there a way to run it without writing a recipe and all that?
<kkebreau>rekado_: Thanks for the info. I'll contact mbakke.
<xavierm02>erudition: (1) Install nix (2) Install your thing with nix (3) Pray for it to work
<erudition>haha I meant on Guix 1.0 of course
<xavierm02>erudition: Or you can probably also just ./configure make make install
<nckx>That's really unlikely to work. By the time you've got everything you need in your ‘guix environment --ad-hoc’ command line you're half way to a writing package anyway ;-)
<nckx>The easiest way to run pithos on Guix is simply to package it.
<nckx>We have alle the dependencies AFAICS.
<erudition>I see.
<erudition>I was hoping there was a way to take advange of the existing packages out there.
<pkill9>the website say sit has a flatpak available, so you could use flatpak as that's packaged in guix
<nckx>Does ik work though?
<erudition>pkill9: oh, good point
<nckx>Ik werk zelden, dat weten we allemaal.
<nckx>I guess erudition is about to find out if it works.
<erudition>Yeah I've just wanted to stay away from flatpak lol
<nckx>I agree with you 2050%.
<nckx>(Thanks for sharing that link.)
<nckx>Upstream-provided binary blobs are a dead end that refuses to die.
<erudition>It will die when it stops being more convenient I guess haha
<nckx>‘Who needs packagers messing with our software? Oh wait, we do, badly.’
<erudition>Pretty sure Snaps are mostly the same idea, or is that wrong?
<nckx>High-level: yes. Let developers compile binary blobs against other binary (‘runtime’) blobs and distribute that.
<erudition>ok cool
<nckx>It's why Guix is superior to all of these misguided things. You get the source to build the source, so to speak, and its entire dependency stack.
<nckx>☝ not speaking for the project here &c.
<erudition>No doubt. I fully agree. Packaging things from scratch is just a really high barrier to entry, especially when most programmers also would need to basically learn a new language first
<erudition>But obviously a world where everything came with a guix recipe would be ideal
<nckx>erudition: I don't disagree; ./configure && make doesn't Just Work on Guix and that's a big trade-off, no doubt about it.
<erudition>Anyone out there working on an AI that studies code and auto-packages it for Guix? :P
<nckx>I assume that's what rekado_ runs on their HPC cluster at night when nobody's watching.
<erudition>That'd be our secret weapon
<nckx>In reality it'll be a bunch of shell scripts & Python 2 of course, hence the ‘secret’.
*nckx almost forgot NFS.
<erudition>Still, couldn't a standard machine learning algorithm take all the existing packages as input, as well as the recipes as pre-learned "correct answers", and you'd have something that tries?
<recj>lol emacs as a build dependency
<erudition>haha with a smallest-dependency-list optimization target, of course
*nckx nopes right out. o/
<recj>i'm just trying to put all the stuff in the dockerfile as dependencies
<recj>but why you need emacs for it i will never understand
<recj>one day people will use guix for many of the reasons they use docker.... some day ^__^
<nckx>recj: Because you are using flawed human ‘logic’, not ‘DevOps logick™’!
<recj>I mean I love the One True Editor™ as much as the next guy but seems a bit excessive to me lol
<nckx>It needs emacs because one of the developers once used emacs and its a dependency now.
<nckx>(Nah, I guess because it provides something called mozc_emacs_helper? Dunno.)
<recj>ok, but best to leave it as native-input because it's just required to build and not for use i gues
<nckx>They're called containers because that's what people have always used to store their garbage.
<nckx>recj: Yes.
<nckx>Get it to build first, then (if you want) find out what pulls in emacs and if it can be avoided.
<recj>and as far as build-systems go
<recj>i was taking a look at
<recj>seems that you basically need to run 2 commands that involve their build script, so should it be trivial build
<nckx>recj: Could be. Note that the trivial build system is *really* hands-off: it won't even unpack your sources for you or patch shebangs. Sometimes that's what you want, sometimes it's both easier & cleaner to use gnu-build-system and delete/replace a few phases instead.
<erudition>would anything go horribly wrong if I installed guixSD over an existing Kubuntu partition?
<nckx>‘It depends.’
<erudition>I figure it might work since the directories don't overlap
<nckx>erudition: Mnoo… Iff you don't need to run Kubuntu afterwards. And don't mind its remnants all over the place.
<nckx>It sometimes the only way to install Guix System on VPSes or hardware that can't easily boot the installer, but I wouldn't recommend doing it on a lark.
<erudition>haha okay
<nckx>Oh, and Guix will fail to boot if you dont ‘mv /etc /etc.old’ before rebooting. I think that's the only real gotcha, but you're still on your own if you go that route.
<nckx>With my support hat on, I cannot recommend it.
<erudition>it wouldn't at least keep the /home data? haha
<erudition>without having to move it somewhere else first
<nckx>It wouldn't touch home.
<erudition>okay I'll format it for now
<nckx>One challenge at a time ☺
<nckx>[☝ advice I literally never follow myself.]
*nckx replaces support hat with crash helmet.
<erudition>"The installation requires internet access but no network device were [sic] found."
<nckx>device [sic]? I'll fix that.
<erudition>okay who's bright idea was it to put that AFTER I formatted the partition...
<nckx>erudition: ‘Known bug’.
<erudition>the order? or not finding network devices
<nckx>Although I don't know if it's actually been reported to the bug tracker.
*nckx checks.
<nckx>The order. I agree that it's incorrect.
<erudition>yeah, cause now I'm kinda stuck haha
<recj>i think the only thing i would really need would be patch source shebangs
<erudition>I guess the nic card needs blobs or something because otherwise there's nothing wrong with it
<nckx>erudition: Which card is it?
<nckx>I can only apologise on behalf of Guix, Inc. for having formatted your drive prematurely. That… sucks. ☹
<erudition>no idea, just a standard ethernet port on a stationary Optiplex desktop, no wifi
<nckx>erudition: lspci would know.
<nckx>Ethernet is *usually* blobless, although I've heard even newer ones can require them.
<erudition>alright I guess I'll drop into the term already lol
<nckx>Come to the dark screen.
*nckx relieved that you can still lol.
<erudition>Intel Corporation Gigabit Network Controller
<erudition>Should be nothing fancy, and it sure ain't new
<nckx>No, and according to, it should be supported by the e1000e driver, same as mine is (an 82579LM). Weird.
<nckx>Are you comfy with command-line network configurement (‘ip foo…’?)
*nckx hopes so because I kinda need to finish my work.
<erudition>don't worry about it then haha, it can wait
<erudition>and uh... all my experience is with NetworkManager
<nckx>(And I've used my ethernet jack on pure libre Guix System, it definitely worked.)
<nckx>I think the installer uses connman, unfortunately.
<nckx>But verify that assertion.
<erudition>Should I hit "continue" in the pseudo-GUI? or not until i have internet
<nckx>I don't think there's a real chance of that ending well. Depite offering a ‘Continue’ option, ‘requires’ is quite true. Another confusing installer quirk.
<erudition>-bash: connman: command not found
<erudition>-bash: NetworkManager: command not found
<nckx>(It's definitely connman, I checked, but don't know how/if it's configured on the command line.)
<nckx>I am both a) awake & online when most new users seem to try out the installer and b) completely unfamiliar with it since I've never used the thing. Bew.
<nckx>All my installations are artisanally hand-crafted.
*nckx promises to fix the wipe-ur-disks-then-check-ur-network bug though.
<erudition>props to you - I could do that for myself maybe, but this is just a family pc we use to play music, so I'm hoping it won't require much maintenence in the long term
<erudition>I was going to do Debian stable but I've been meaning to try GuixSD
<erudition>and all my other pcs are LVM lol
<nckx>Speaking only for myself: my mother's laptop is the only Ubuntu installation I manage. But that's more because of the lack of multi-media and (ew) Flash (ew) support when I installed it years ago. Guix System might almost be mother-proof now.
<nckx>s/the lack/Guix's lack/
<erudition>I thought there was still no gui for package management?
<nckx>(She doesn't know what Lisp is, but then she doesn't know what apt is either.)
<nckx>The thing has no battery boom problem: solved.
<erudition>that would be awesome if Guix was mother-proof, since it's effectively rolling-release, I wouldn't need to do upgrades haha
<erudition>this thing had Kubuntu 16.10.... not even upgradable anymore haha
*nckx was thinking ‘you mean upgrade twice a day??’ but right, that kind of upgrade. *shudders*
<erudition>yeah lol canonical yanks the archives to non-LTS versions so quickly
<nckx>(Guix doesn't make the distinction: ‘updating’ emacs is ‘upgrading’ it. The manual uses both.)
<erudition>ah. yeah, you don't "upgrade" a package, you "update" it, but when you're ready, you "upgrade" the whole system by installing a bunch of updates that would have broken your system if done sooner
<erudition>in apt world, that is.
*nckx ssh into mother's laptop
<nckx>‘Welcome to Ubuntu 18.04.2 LTS’
<nckx>Phew, guess I'm safe for a while. (That was a clean installation.)
<erudition>yeah I was thinking about installing that LTS
<erudition>LTSs would have been a smarter choice
<erudition>but upgrades are still manual, so I wanted to try a rolling distro for a true set-and-forget setup
<nckx>Even at ‘1.0’ Guix is far too young for the forget part, but it's getting there slowly.
<nckx>Guix 18.04 will be rock solid.
<erudition>I was referring to Debian Stable
<erudition>but apparently that has manual upgrades as well... oops
<erudition>very smooth ones though, reportedly
<nckx>erudition: Oh, yeah, it does, which is why I thought you were talking about (a future, hypothetical) Guix System. Debian is nice. I just chose Ubuntu because, well, apparently it's the industry-standard desktop thing for non-geeks? As I total geek, I haven't a clue.
<erudition>No, you did make the right choice, seeing as she'll actually /use/ it
<nckx>It used to be Mint, then Mint bad, don't use Mint, god knows what it is now. Elementary or somesuch silliness I guess.
<erudition>this PC is just for turning on, then it autostarts pithos, and plays all day haha
<erudition>but otherwise you need ubuntu for it's PPAs, so you know it'll at least support any software out there that runs on GNU
*erudition has never tried hacking Debian to add PPA support, though
<xavierm02>erudition: You just add it as in Ubuntu, and then change the name of the ubuntu version to the one closest to your debian version in source.list and voila!
*nckx knows what PPAs are — indeed uses them, well guessed — but had no idea they were Ubuntu-only.
<nckx>[reads xavierm02] …or not.
<recj>can i invoke shell commands in a package building procedure?
<nckx>recj: Yes, there is literally an (invoke "…") procedure ☺
<nckx>Note: (invoke "bash" "-c" "guile"), not (invoke "bash -c guile").
<erudition>xavierm02: Really? So I can just type `apt-add-repository ppa:author/package` like I do in ubuntu?
<xavierm02>nckx: Worked last time I tried. I just had to symlink some library because it wanted an older version that didn't exist in debian (because they apparently skipped it)
<baconicsynergy_>i have a crazy-ass question: what would a kernel look and behave like in a quantum computer?
<nckx>Interesting. Still, the point of that laptop is that I ssh into it once a month or so to update everthing & make sure it works, and otherwise cost me 0 time. Else I wouldv'e installed Guix :o)
<erudition>nckx: yeah ubuntu "invented" them I guess
<xavierm02>erudition: Yeah. If you're lucky and the dependencies of th package you want from the PPA can be met.
<erudition>nckx: oh yeah exactly, I update even less. the PPAs just get you less common software when there's something outdated or proprietary, but it all updates just the same
<erudition>nckx: granted, I actually have auto-updates on for all repos :O which I guess is rare
<erudition>xavierm02: awesome I'll try it. Guess there really is no reason to use ubuntu over Debian then, other than the company support and kernel tweaks.
<nckx>erudition: I have it on only for teh securities; I considered ‘auto-update everything’ but… well, it's my mother, and it seems like it could break something as well as fix it.
<erudition>xavierm02: for the purposes of stability... obviously debian-testing-based Ubuntu will have more recent software, for someone like me who needs that
*nckx 's mother does not care about the latest cryptsetup point release? Mothers are weird?
<erudition>nckx: Yeah, problem is my mother perpetually ignores the "you have updates to install" message
<erudition>one thing that woulodn't be a problem with windows, amusingly
<erudition>where you have pretty much no chice now
<xavierm02>erudition: you're kinda mixing two versions of debian when doing that. It's what they call a frankendebian. Using the PPAs in Debian can require a bit of tweaking (matching the ubuntu and debian versions, maybe getting a few packages from backports etc.) whereas in Ubuntu, it just works. I don't like Ubuntu and needed a PPA so I did this, but I wouldn't go so far as to recommend it
<nckx>erudition: You mean the prompt's hidden by default? Probably a good thing.
<erudition>nckx: haven't you heard? Windows 10 all but forces you to auto-update
<erudition>oh, no, I mean it won't be clicked, ever. And then one day websites stop working and such because firefox is a year old, etc
<erudition>xavierm02: ahh, good to know
<erudition>nckx: the prompt isn't hidden by default, but it sure is timid compared to windows
<xavierm02>I think I had something that autoupdated without asking anything when I was using Debian
<nckx>erudition: That was in response to ‘pretty much no choice [on Windows]’. Which does seem to be the case now.
*nckx lives under a very nice rock and likes that very much.
<erudition>xavierm02: yeah unattended-upgrades is what I use
<erudition>xavierm02: but by default it doesn't do all software
<nckx>Gist of an article on the subject: ‘There are two ways to disable auto-updates in Windows 10. If you use Pro, do foo. Or, if you use Pro, do bar.’
<erudition>oh really? so it's no longer just a "postpone for six months"?
<nckx>So only Pros can disable it? Assuming ‘Pro’ means ‘give us more money’, that's just… well that's very nice of the fine folks at Microsoft that is.
<erudition>(not that they phrase it as such)
<nckx>It's a random article, it may be bunk ☺
<erudition>I wasn't meaning to suggest it wasn't possible, anyway
<erudition>just that win10 is infamous for its persistence in that regard
<erudition>"would you like to update now? or two hours from now?"
<nckx>(Neither options were ‘go to foo and click the bar checkbox’, but involved the registry, so I'll grant you your point regardless. No regular user will do this.)
<xavierm02>with a prompt that gets you out of fullscreen games
<nckx>This is horrid.
<xavierm02>and the download that starts when you're playing to make sure you lagg
<erudition>haha aw really? no throttling?
<erudition>well I like that unattended-upgrades can do the throttling
<xavierm02>well recently i havent had problems
<xavierm02>but at the beginning it was really shitty
<xavierm02>net stop wuauserv & net stop bits & net stop dosvc
<xavierm02>i have this in a text file
<nckx>And people ask me why control over your computing is such a big deal with a straight face.
<xavierm02>it was my way of making it STOP
<erudition>but mother needs updates for more than just security, so you have to dig into the config file to set it up for all pkgs
<xavierm02>the worst, is that even when you stop it, it randomly restarted after one hour or two sometimes
<nckx>‘So you say that this thing that cost me €1000 and I pretend to own should do what I want it to do? You some kind of extremist?’
<erudition>nckx: not sure those people would even know why the game was lagging lol
<erudition>to be fair, that "should do what I want it to do" is kinda loaded
<erudition>until you can just think of something and the pc will make it happen, skill will be required
<xavierm02>that would be scary
<erudition>alright well at least the terminal should understand english
<erudition>then maybe they'll see it as doing what they tell it
<erudition>moreso than a mac or something, at least
<erudition>> install and play Fortnite
<erudition>> speed up my pc
<erudition>> play music
<xavierm02>this already kinda exists. They just call them "assistants" and give them names instead of terminal (scary!)
<erudition>that's the idea
<recj>lol ok so here's a preliminary version that i will try
<erudition>but for some reason those assistants don't make it to the desktop
<erudition>or they do but they get mugged along the way and lose 90% of the features
*nckx goes to watch the game to lower their blood pressure.
<xavierm02>they tried to kinda force it on people at the beginning on windows 10. But it kinda failed
<erudition>that's the useless thing I'm thinking of
<erudition>It can't even move a file. I tried
<xavierm02>I looked up how to disable it as soon as I saw it
<erudition>I don't know why someone hasn't made one that works
<erudition>in the sense that it can do command line stuff
<erudition>not lookup the weather
<xavierm02>yeah it's really weird how people making phone software and people making desktop software don't seem to talk
<erudition>I mean, I have Google assistant runing on my ubuntu
<erudition>as well as Alexa
<erudition>thanks to the poularity of raspberry pi
<xavierm02>like permissions like on phones are also something we'd want on desktops but it still looks very very far waay
<erudition>it's basically done, on phones
<xavierm02>why would you need Google assistant :o
<erudition>Because I'm a gadget nerd and i like controlling things wiht my voice
<erudition>and currently there is no better engine
<xavierm02>making an "assistant" that does cp, mv, ls sounds like a 1 day project.
<erudition>especially when I'm vaccuuming and want to add something I just thought of to my todo list, for example. Before I forget it
<erudition>xavierm02: exactly!
<erudition>yet even Mycroft doesn't seem to have it!
<xavierm02>I think that the people building assistants don't actually use them
<xavierm02>and maybe thing of people who do as "noobs", and so can't imagine them doing "terminal stuff"
<xavierm02>that's the only logical explanation i can see
<erudition>I'm not a noob but I still want the future
<erudition>haha yeah
<xavierm02>"Hello GNU. Start compiling <thing>"
<erudition>or even just "open <project>"
<erudition>"Hey Gnu, shut down in six hours."
<erudition>simple stuff
<xavierm02>That sounds pretty cool
<xavierm02>Especially if it's not some random closed software spying on you
<xavierm02>anyway. Gotta go sleep. Cya!
<erudition>nckx: So I found the command for connman is connmanctl
<erudition>Error getting technologies: The name net.connman was not provided by any .service files
<erudition>Unfortunately that's all it ever gives
<erudition>Research tells me it's because the connman daemon isn't even running
<nckx>erudition: Hmph.
<nckx>erudition: What does ‘herd status’ say about it?
<erudition>Confirmed! "connmand" was all I typed
<erudition>daemon is now running I guess
<erudition>because ifconfig shows my ethernet
<erudition>that was anticlimactic lol
<nckx>So connmand was never started or kept crashing. It would be nice to find out why, if you could find anything in /var/log/messages (if the installer even has that) or dmesg.
<erudition>okay I'll look
<erudition>btw the next question is for a root password - coming from distros that only use `sudo` I'm not sure what's best practice here
<recj>nckx: any idea why it says invalid field specification around the propagated input ?
<nckx>recj: propagated-inputs takes the same argument as inputs: `(("string" ,package) ("string" ,package) …), you have `("string" "strang" "strung").
<nckx>And those strings aren't guix package names.
<nckx>You can't just copy Red Hat (?) packages like that I'm afraid ☺
<recj>i think they're debian/ubuntu packages
<recj>but i'll figure out what their guix pacakge names are
<recj>hopefully they.... exist
<nckx>For example, Guix doesn't have a ‘libibus’ packages, but an ‘ibus’ that contains (amongst others) this library. So you'd write (propagated-inputs `(("ibus" ,ibus) …)).
<erudition>nckx: ok I don't know my way around /var/log but I tried cat /var/log/debug and I notice that "sheperd" starts the services. But it says "d-bus service could not be started" followed by "networking depends on d-bus service. networking could not be started"
<nckx>And make sure that the (gnu packages ibus) is imported at the top of your file.
<nckx>s/ is/ module is/
<nckx>Use ‘guix package -A’ and ‘guix search’ (very verbose) to search for packages.
<nckx>erudition: Hm, I'm afraid that once again my complete unfamiliarity with the installer prevents me from knowing where to look. Or whether that message is relevant or not.
<nckx>Remote debugging is hard, debugging something you don't know, worse ;-)
<nckx>I'd only be wasting your time by asking you to look in random files for unknown strings.
<nckx>recj: Also note that none of those fields include version numbers.
<erudition>makes sense.
*nckx is looking at a nicely ordered list of installer steps where ‘networking’ comes before ‘partitioning’. Hmm. 🤔
<recj>ok nckx i shall
<recj>oof yeah i do need specific versions
<erudition>any comments on waht to make the root password? I've never used a root password before, only sudo
<nckx>recj: Sure, that's possible, but writing (inputs `(("foo@2.0" ,foo-2.0))) won't magically give you foo 2.0 [it might, but let's leave that for now]. So try unversioned names first.
<nckx>The vast (and I mean vast) majority of packages works fine without them.
<recj>yeah that's what i was going to try first
<recj>because i'm sure adding version numbers adds complications because you would have to add those parameters somehow
<nckx>erudition: I use a very long password but like you I never actually log in as root. I'm not sure if the installer lets you disable root logins entirely (as IMO it should, but that's a feature request, not a bug).
<erudition>so make a long password I guess
<erudition>and write it down somewhere
<nckx>You can always disable root log-ins later if that makes you feel better.
<nckx> /safer.
*nckx pushes a fix for the ‘device were found’ typo. Sigh. Something, I guess.
<recj>still says the same error
<nckx>recj: Then you still have a syntax error. Paste?
<erudition>thanks. My part of the setup is done - downloading substitutes now. sweet.
<erudition>Looks like it's all working. Phew.
<nckx>("emacs" ,emacs)))
<nckx>("xcb", xcb)) ←
<nckx>see the difference? ☺
<nckx>Also, the comma belongs to the symbol following it. “, xcb” works, but “ ,xcb” is less misleading.
<nckx>(See ,emacs above.)
*nckx AFK for a while.
<recj>ok i see it
<erudition>I selected every available DE ... because why not lol
<recj>but did you get gnustep
<nckx>erudition: Uhm, (un)likelihood to have been tested together, probability of more bugs in more places, installation time, … 😛 But you do you.
<nckx>recj: GNUstep is not an option.
*nckx is at the DE selection screen by pure coincidence.
<recj>try window maker
<nckx>recj: No, I mean there's a list of choices and GNUstep (under any name) isn't on it.
<recj>oh really
<nckx>GNOME, Xfce, MATE, Enlightenment, Openbox, awesome, i3, ratpoison.
<recj>ah i see
<recj>i use i3 mostly but GNUstep for fun sometimes
<nckx>recj: Guix is (still) a pretty niche OS and GNUstep is a (very) niche DE (not a value judgment), so I'd honestly be suprised if it was (well-)supported.
<recj>I can't really see many people using it all the time, it's very niche
<nckx>Every option needs a champion, and I don't know of any Guix dev who uses GNUstep at all.
<nckx>Most of us use GNOME and i3.
<kkebreau>I alternate between GNOME and GNUstep.
<nckx>A champion has been volunteered! March him to the volunteering cage.
<kkebreau>Lol! I'm actually trying to get it running on a C201, but there are some preliminary build issues on ARM.
<kkebreau>But once I get X building properly, I'd like to continue my work on GNUstep! :)
<nckx>Yay! Linux is about GNU/choice.
<nckx>(I was joking. I don't even agree with that cliche.)
<nckx>GNU is not about choice, it's about freedom, nobody's obligated to maintain your smörgåsbord.
<nckx>[Impersonal your, of course.]
<recj>I guess the freedom to abandon ship and not provide a warranty is a freedom in itself
<recj>no guarantee that software will be maintained forever, it's just released with the hope that it will be useful to someone
<recj>but on the other hand you have the freedom to maintain it yourself if you really care so much in that case
<kkebreau>Free software abandonware is the best abandonware!
<jackhill>My personal opinion is that some amount of choice/options forces better software than a monoculture of integrations/deployment scenarios.
<recj>also despite fixing the syntax it has the same error nckx
<recj>totally jackhill
<jackhill>:) but I recently switched to GNOME because I decided I didn't want to maintain my custom Xsession built around XMonad anymore.
<nckx>jackhill: Sure, but that (to me) implies an ‘I can do it [better], to the forkmobile!’ voluntarism, not the ‘you should keep supporting GTK2 forever for my benefit’ passivity. Unfortunately, the latter is louder :-/
<nckx>Many lively projects are certainly healthier.
<recj>speaking of that isn't python2 officially dying soon
<jackhill>nckx: agreed. Let's avoid falling into those traps!
<nckx>recj: Well, paste the fixed file and maybe the error, but I will be going to bed eventually ;-)
*jackhill looks around nerviously to see how much python2 code they need to worry about
<nckx>If recj were demanding somebody add GNUstep (they're not!) in the name of choice, that would be bad. Adding patches? Awesome.
<kkebreau>recj: Python 2 is EOL in 2020.
<recj>thanks for your help so far btw. just can't find this error and no idea where it's coming from
<nckx>Somebody came in here a few months ago basically insulting us for not having enough PHP for their liking. They made lots of noise, then left in a huff. I think that's a shame.
<recj>oh kkebreau yeah i just searched for it and saw that too
<recj>less php is best imo
<nckx>recj: (define-public moz is wrong but that might be a typo in your paste.
<nckx>No patches were ever submitted.
<nckx>recj: You're still missing that 3rd closing bracket after ,xcb.
<recj>ah ok
<recj>I see a different error now, so that's good :-) thanks
<nckx>I also don't think (delete '(configure build check install strip)) works that way but I can't honestly say I've tried that… interesting syntax 😛
<nckx>Try (delete 'configure)<newline>(delete 'build)<newline>… instead.
<recj>oh i thought that in scheme if you apply something to a list it's like a `map` function
<recj>but that makes sense
<nckx>Also remember what I said about INVOKE's arguments: (invoke "python build … long string") won't work.
<recj>ah i forgot bash
<nckx>recj: You'd explicitly call (map procedure '(my li st)) for that, and let's just say for now that what you're writing there is not actually a ‘real’ procedure call. Let's not complicate things too much.
<nckx>recj: I didn't mean that bash was mandatory, but that each argument must be its own string.
<nckx>(invoke "echo" "foo" "bar") calls ‘echo’ with 2 arguments. (invoke "echo" "foo bar") call it with 1; it's equivalent to ‘echo "foo bar"’ in bash. So (invoke "python build foo_bar") will look for an executable actually named "python build foo_bar", spaces and all.
<nckx>Phew :)
<recj>well that at least means I can break up that long string
<recj>by each space
<nckx>That's all that jumped out at me so far. Might be more subtle errors too, but you got 3 for the price of 1 already.
<nckx>recj: Yep. (invoke "foo" "bar"<newline>"baz") to split up new lines at ~70-80 characters is nice.
<nckx>You'd line up "baz" with "foo" for readability. emacs will auto-do this for you.
<recj>emacs with guix-devel-mode sure does come in handy
<erudition>oh really? Shouldn't the DEs be completely isolated, more or less, especially on a system such as Guix?
<recj>ok so i did that
<recj>but `guix package --install-from-file=mozc.scm` has no output now
<nckx>erudition: Well, Unix isn't made for that, we try to isolate things, but Guix itself can have bugs, GDM certainly makes … assumptions … aggressively, etc. I meant that as a general computing response to ‘why not?’; the more you add, the more that can go wrong. That was all.
<erudition>Hmm, okay
<nckx>recj: Add ‘mozc’ on its own line at the end of the file. This is to make the file return the package you just defined. It's like saying ‘OK, so let's (define ‘house’ as being blah blah). OK, now give me a: house’.
<nckx>This is only needed with ‘--install-from-file’.
<erudition>I guess something I was looking forward to about Guix was the ability to install whatever I want without worrying about it conflicting with other software, thanks to the ability to install multiple versions of libraries and such
<nckx>erudition: That's the ideal we strive for!
<erudition>guess I should curb that enthusiasm a bit
<nckx>But doing that properly will not be done on Unix as we know it. Unix ♥ global state.
<erudition>I do know that GNOME assumes a lot of systemd and what not
<nckx>For example.
<erudition>but I figure GNOME would be teh most tested anyway
*nckx doesn't use GNOME, doesn't know.
<nckx>In better news than RedHatOS, I think I've managed to move partitioning to the end of the installation without breaking anything.
<nckx>I think that makes sense.
<nckx>Do the most damaging thing last.
<nckx>It was more of a test, it can go right after networking 's far as I'm concerned.
<recj>guix package --install-from-file=mozc.scm --instal
<recj>l mozc
<recj>guix package: error: mozc: unknown package
<recj>same when i try the --install-from-file=mozc and package --install mozc separately
<nckx>recj: --install-from-file is an alternative to --install. You only use one. In your case, ‘--install-from-file=mozc.scm’.
<erudition>nckx: "Unix ♥ global state" -- well at least now I have instant rollbacks for free.
<nckx>And much more.
<erudition>I was prompted by the fact that my kubuntu desktop booted to a blinking cursor the other day
<erudition>right when i needed to work
<recj>i see but i only tried that still did nothing
<recj>i verified by listing installed packages and it wasn't there
<erudition>worst part is, the usual fudging around fixed it eventually, like switching display manager and graphics driver combinations... and then switching back -.-
<nckx>recj: If mozc.scm returns a package object, ‘--install-from-file=mozc.scm’ should™ really just work or print an error. Weird.
<recj>would it be possible to import it in the guile repl to see if it really returns a package object
<nckx>recj: I was just testing that. I had to use ‘guix repl < foo.scm’ to make it find all the modules but it seems to work.
<nckx>guix repl < foo.scm: $1 = #<package libreoffice@ gnu/packages/libreoffice.scm:925 215a420>
<nckx>Where foo.scm is just (use-modules (gnu packages libreoffice)) libreoffice .
<recj>i know this is super trivial, but i wish guile had witty exit messages like MIT scheme lol
<nckx>I wish Guile had better error messages, period, but I know how hard the Guile maintainers already work.
<nckx>recj: I haven't used MIT scheme. Wat kind of messages?
<recj>stuff like "Moriturus te saluto." (I, who am about to die, salute you)
<nckx>Obviously, Guile would speak Greek.
<nckx>More lambdas.
<nckx>‘Guile: πάθει μάθος.’
<recj>lol nice
<nckx>And they said it would never be useful in real life.
<recj>people always say that functional programming is useless ;___;
<nckx>Do they? Wow. That's almost as ignorant.
<erudition>Never heard anyone say that
<erudition>ever lol
<recj>i have they say it's not practical
<erudition>I'd invite them to look at the companies built on Elm, then
<erudition>if that isn't practical, idk what is
<erudition>guaranteed no runtime errors, and such
<erudition>looks like I'm finally doen with the install!
<erudition>nckx: (since you seem able to do commits, another nice little change would be to eject the CD automatically after the install completes, like other distros)
<str1ngs> I really don't like that feature of other distro's
<nckx>erudition: People still use CDs? Honest wow.
<nckx>I'm also not sure whether I think that's a desirable feature, like str1ngs.
<nckx>…str1ngs is a very desirable feature. Grammar, on the other hand…
<str1ngs>my biggest issue about that feature. is there is an assumption you want to wait before shutting down.
<nckx>str1ngs: It's certainly tempting and I'm sure some other distros only add it because they can and because it's cooler to do something than to not do it. Why don't you like it?
<nckx>Oh. Ya beat me.
<str1ngs>I think to lean towards. The end user is smart enough to eject a CD should they need to.
<str1ngs>I tend*
<str1ngs>and as nckx mentioned, people still use CD? :P
<nckx>The only reasonable argument I've heard is that there's a notorious maker of low-quality, high-priced laptops that skimps on eject buttons.
<nckx>But should everyone else work around that? 😛
<nckx>Probably a bit late to that debate in 2019. Now if my USB stick suddenly flew accross the desk… then I'd be annoyed. Impressed, but annoyed.
<str1ngs>that would be impressive
<erudition>No people don't still use DVDs (which is what I meant in this case)
<erudition>which is exactly why I used a blank one for GuixSd
<erudition>You see, I have tons of distros ISOs on my multiboot flash drive
<erudition>but guix utterly fails at that
<erudition>I couldn't get it to work at all
<nckx>I think Danny started some work in that direction but it was never finished.
<erudition>But I don't have enough flash drives to just flash an entire image to it for one install
<erudition>Then I realized wait.... It can't do anything *but* install
<erudition>I realized Guix can't even do a live boot via USB
<erudition>And the final nail in the coffin was that GuixSD is an internet-based installer by default anyway
<nckx>erudition: *confused* The installer image *is* a live system. Completely.
<erudition>All in all, the perfect candidate for Read-only media!
<recj>all these languages that pretend they need their own package manager should just use guix
<recj>pip, cabal, hackage, opam
<nckx>erudition: Yep. We have the worlds hugest netinstall ISO. ‘Yaay’.
<recj>we don't need em
<erudition>nckx: I meant one that boots into a graphical environment. I tried
<recj>python-dsjgnfdsgdsfgds, haskell-jdsgjdhgkjfdhs, ocaml-sfoinhsodifhso, etc
<erudition>Oh and the netinstall is small, obviously
<erudition>so yeah, basically no benefit to using a flash drive other than speed
<nckx>erudition: Oh. That's not really what live means, but you're right that our megahugeballz netiso doesn't even contain X in its >1 GiB… 😒
<nckx>‘This is suboptimal.’
<erudition>Sorry, that's the live that's useful to me haha
<erudition>like when I want to run gparted on some pc that's failing or something
<erudition>aka when that system forces me to the terminal somehow
<erudition>which I'm sure is a joy for you lol
<erudition>I grew up on Windows thought
<nckx>Sure. Especially on a source-based distribution like Guix it would be nice to browse the (graphical) Web while you might have to compile stuff.
<nckx>I'm not disagreeing.
<erudition>So with Live CDs/USBs at least I have my portable GNOME or whatever for diagnosis
<erudition>But yeah, running Guix in multibootusb, it failed fast, saying it couldn't mount the kernel or something
<nckx>erudition: I actually use SystemRescueCD as my standard ‘Guix installation medium’. I use it to do just that. Read documentation or Reddit while I install.
<erudition>Oh that's a good idea haha
<nckx>Mwell, the official installer gives you a much more useful Guix out of the box.
<erudition>Yes of course
<erudition>and I hope There's a standard graphical version someday
<nckx>I just got into that habit because I was forced to use it on some VPS providers.
<erudition>one day I might try to package Calamares
<nckx>Probably will be.
<nckx>Download and burn the 11-GiB Guix netinstall BluRay!
<nckx>‘It's got X.’
<erudition>you meant the 5MB netinstall installer, of course
<nckx>and twm. and xeyes. what is this icecat of which you speak.
<erudition>it installs the netinstall
<erudition>xeyes lol
<erudition>man this inital boot is taking forever... and there's no fancy pulsing Guix logo to look at while I wait, either :(
<erudition>I was hoping boot would actually be faster on this OS, hopefully it's just for the first boot? heh
<nckx>erudition: Eeehm. I've got some bad news if you expected that.
<nckx>Startup is slower.
<nckx>I used an HDD until this February. It was frankly ridiculous, took a few minutes to boot my laptop every day. Now I have an SSD and it boots in a mere… half or so.
<nckx>Never investigated why.
<nckx>One gets debug fatigue.
<nckx>Guix System does not boot fast.
<erudition>well that's fine for this pc
<erudition>as long as it plays music eventually
<erudition>for my own PCs... I sure hope hibernate is working lol
<nckx>Haven't tried. I hope so.
<erudition>hmm, first thing, tried installing flatpak
<erudition>still got "the following environmental variable definitions may be needed" like I do when running guix on a foreign distro
<erudition>I thought that would go away on GuixSD, and it would just export the variables for me.
<recj>i used a cd to install guixsd
<recj>whenever there was something that was not cached or i pressed tab on a command the cd drive made a bunch of noise
<recj>furiously rotating
<erudition>rejc: huh? you mean just now?
<erudition>yeah it did
<erudition>commands took a while to go through
<recj>i use tab completion as much as possible for the sake of laziness
<erudition>I just used the graphical installer
<erudition>until it didn't work and I had to hit Ctrl+Alt+F3
<erudition>oh well
<erudition>str1ngs: btw "<str1ngs> my biggest issue about that feature. is there is an assumption you want to wait before shutting down." You are actually making an assumption there yourself, which is that the user doesn't have the installation media higher up on their boot device list than their new install. Because if it did, you'd come back to find the installer greeting you at a fresh start and be very confused
<erudition>str1ngs: so installers actually /can't/ just go ahead and reboot without prompting, and that's why they give the warning to "remove the installation media" like guix does
<nckx>erudition: Guix simply can't export those variables for you in the current shell. No (sane) way around that. You can source /etc/profile yourself though. Or simply open a new shell.
<rvgn>Hello Guix!
<rvgn>How to make bootloader to automatically GPG-Sign the kernel, initramfs and grub.cfg it generates everytime during "system init" or system reconfigure"? Is there way to enable this via system configuration file "config.scm"?
<ober>any hacks to get guix to use the squid cached defined in http_proxy?
<erudition>nckx: I'm not sure I understand. Aren't the lines it gives able to be copy-pasted right into that same shell?
<erudition>nckx: I assume they're meant to be complete commands to type into bash or what not. Which is part of the problem on my ubuntu pc because I use fish, not bash, and the lines don't work
<erudition>nckx: "in the current shell" -- wait does this mean it's all already done for me in future shells? So it's all unnecessary and pointless if I just close it and open a new terminal?
<rekado_>erudition: pretty much, yes.
<erudition>oh man okay
<rekado_>On Guix System the default profile is automatically sourced on shell initialization.
<rekado_>but it won’t add new variables in your current shell session.
<erudition>hmm, I'm not sure what that has to do with exporting shell variables, but I'll take your word for it
<rekado_>so when you install something that requires a new variable you either have to set it yourself (manually or by source’ing etc/profile) or restart your shell.
<erudition>okay so I can ignore all those export prompts and don't have to worry about things not working
<rekado_>erudition: the export messages have very recently been changed to merely mention etc/profile
<erudition>where can I find the command to downgrade a package?
<erudition>I looked in the manual but I'm still not sure
<erudition>I don't even see a way to list all the versions
<rekado_>you can roll back to a previous generation of your profile
<rekado_>you cannot downgrade individual packages this way
<rekado_>with “guix package -A the-name” you can list all avaialable versions of “the-name” in the *current* version of Guix.
<kmicu>Are commits like ‘676eb5880e installer: Install companion packages alongside i3’ related to some issue/bug or is civodul casually&randomly improving things?
<kmicu>(Nvm, ‘Fixes <>.’ It just before-coffee/mate time blindness.)
<erudition>rekado_: uh oh, then how am I supposed to install an older version of something?
<erudition>rekado_: on a fresh guixSD install, I installed flatpak. But I can't use it, I just get Segmentation Fault. So I suspect it might be an issue with that version
<erudition>Rolling back to the sole previous profile generation without it installed doesn't help
<kmicu>Hi erudition: it’s possible that Flatpak recipe was contributed, it compiles and nothing more. In this case switching to an older version will not fix the issue.
*kmicu doesn’t recall anyone successfuly using Flatpak here.
<cap>Greetings. I'm new to guix and I'm trying to find out, how to set the keyboard-layout for sddm. Does anyone can give me a hint, where I could look up such informations?
<kmicu>Hi cap, do you want to have a different keyboard layout only for SDDM or change it for the whole system?
<cap>The reason is, that I tried to use wayland+sway. For that reason I switched to sddm, but I wasn't able to finde much documentation on how to use sway. My config:
<cap>Hi kmicu for the whole system.
<kmicu>Do you have de layout when using regular Xorg?
<kmicu>(Maybe the issue is only with sway/wayland. They are not officially supported yet i.e. there is no system service for Sway.)
<cap>Yes, but the config is changed. With the documentet config for X keyboard layouts it is working.
<kmicu>You are already passing de keyboard-layout to xorg-configuration, and that de xorg-configuration to sddm-configuration so you should see de in Xorg.
<cap>In the x window documentation the sddm-configuration is listed, but there was no flag for the layout.
<kmicu>That’s correct. SDDM takes keyboard-layout only via xorg-configuration.
<cap>so the following config should be sufficient?
<kmicu>cap: alas I don’t know. It looks like SDDM has many bugs related to layout handling e.g. ‘SDDM may also incorrectly display the layout as US but will immediately change to the correct layout after you start typing your password’.
<kmicu>cap: so maybe SDDM indicated US but in reality you had DE. Did you test that by writing something in SDDM’s login form?
<cap>unfortunately it didn't switched.
<kmicu>cap: btw did you test but with active lines 78 and 79?
<kmicu>(They are commented out in the linked paste.)
<cap>Yes. That was only a test. It is like it config in the pad.
<kmicu>cap: Just a reminder that you can also write an email (it can be in DE) to Help Mailing List and get feedback from other Sway/Wayland enthusiasts.
<kmicu>(Or ask here later when Sway/Guix folks wake up! ;)
<cap>Okay, thank you really mutch. I need to go now. Thx
<xavierm02>I really need to find a way to guix update --NO-BUILDING. I can't spend an hour building random packages everytime I upgrade T.T
<xavierm02>guix upgrade*
<g_bor[m]>In sway you can configure your keyboard with the sway config file. I don't use a login manager right now, I just start sway from the command line once I logged in.
<g_bor[m]>It is more lightweight for me that way...
<g_bor[m]>xavierm02: I believe you can check substitute availability using guix weather before upgrading... That would at least tell you what needs to be built...
<g_bor[m]>xavierm02: Here is this issue, with some partial solutions, that might be interesting to you:
<PirBoazo>Do you think it is possible to have dhcp and fixed ip interfaces?
<PirBoazo>in same time :-)
<xavierm02>g_bor[m]: Nice. Thanks!
<ngz>It seems that vlc 3.0.7 cannot be built, at least of x86_64, due to a failing test.
<xavierm02>There's a weird thing with i3: When you log in, the background of i3 becomes what your screen was just before you logged in. And it happends at least with gdm and sddm
<xavierm02>Is that normal?
<g_bor[m]>istm that swap on /dev/disk/by-uuid devices do not work... I will have a look at that later
<nckx>xavierm02: Yes, it (or X or the driver) doesn't erase the memory so you get whatever there was. Use fehbg or your favourite Unixy do1thang tool to set it.
<nckx>ngz: Could you give it a few --rounds (and report a bug)? I updated VLC to 3.0.7 hours ago so it's obviously not deterministic ;-)
<nckx>g_bor[m]: Oh ☹ Those are just symlinks created by udev ‘by hand’, so I guess we swapon before that has happened (which is reasonable to do). Writing a Scheme UUID parser, like we do for fs'es, it is, then.
<xavierm02>i3lock doesn't accept my password. Any ideas what could be happening? I tried changing my password to something simple to check if it was a keyboard layout problem but it doesn't seem to be
<mbakke>xavierm02: Did you add '(screen-locker-service i3lock)' to your system configuration?
<tune>xavierm02: you need to use setuid I think to give screenlocking privs
<ngz>nckx: "guix package -k --rounds=3 -u vlc" still fails at the first compilation.
<tune>I had something in my config.scm for i3lock but I use sway now so my line might be a bit different
<nckx>ngz: What's the name of the failing .drv?
<xavierm02>mbakke: That fixed it. Thanks
<xavierm02>I didn't expect to need to put it in the .scm. I had just installed it as user and it locked the creen but couldnt accept the password
<nckx>ngz: ‘guix build vlc’ on master (7e6764c1d290a4233a34b5e6751c6d89f05823a6) gives me /gnu/store/1bq28cmji1lhsaprv1jld9c7bvqykygx-vlc-3.0.7.drv → /gnu/store/k1l0kknl8faprb22ghxkq33xg8bs9r1s-vlc-3.0.7 though.
<nckx>On x86_64.
<nckx>The only error that gives me (after building successfully) when playing a vidya is Failed to open VDPAU backend cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory, which isn't fatal.
<notnotdan>hi guix
***munen` is now known as munen
<mbakke>civodul: One more stuck aarch64 derivation:
<xavierm02>Whats the usual workflow when trying to define a package? guix environment -l myfile every time you changed something until it works?
<mbakke>civodul: Also, I can't seem to find any armhf builds, e.g. 'nss'.
<mbakke>xavierm02: Pretty much. I package most things inside the Guix repository and use './pre-inst-env guix build foo' until it works.
<roptat>hi guix!
<roptat>I'm trying to start a graphical session with a read-only home, and that doesn't work :(
<roptat>I tried to set XDG_DATA_HOME and XDG_CONFIG_HOME in /etc/profile
<roptat>that helped a little, but at the first graphical connection, ~/.local/share/xorg and ~/.cache/gdm and ~/.cache/mesa_shader_cache are created
<roptat>strangely enough, I also have $XDG_CACHE_HOME/mesa_shader_cache (but to gdm)
<roptat>how to set these variables early enough, and have them respected by gdm, xorg and mesa?
<notnotdan>If I am inheriting from another package, can I somehow add a new input, instead of just overwriting all of them?
<roptat>notnotdan, yes you can
<roptat>you can do something like (let ((base some-package)) (package (inherit base) ... (inputs (append `(("foo" ,foo)) (package-inputs base)))))
<notnotdan>I see, thanks.
<notnotdan>Hm.. I am trying to package crispy-doom, but the script in their source tree doesn't work
<notnotdan>Even in README they recommend just doing `autoreconf -vif' yourself.
<notnotdan>So I just replaced the bootstrap phase with (invoke "autoreconf" "-vif"). Is this acceptable?
<notnotdan>ok great
<notnotdan>thanks i'll send a patch soon
<pkill9>secure-scuttlebutt integration with guix would be cool
<pkill9>so you could send the package definition(s) and the store paths
<pkill9>send it to someone on the same network as you who you trust
<nckx>pkill9: As someone quite ignorant of both: how would that relate to IPFS?
<nckx>Complement/alternative/something else?
<pkill9>nckx: hmm, it's something else I think, it's a protocol focused around encrypted and signed messaging - the description of ssb-db describes what it's focused on ( "A database of unforgeable append-only feeds, optimized for efficient replication for peer to peer protocols". It doesn't store large amounts of data like IPFS, it just links to those "blobs". I was thinking those blobs
<pkill9>could be Guix substitutes
<pkill9>the protocol isn't limited to one kind of application, it's supposed to be able to build things on top of it, for example there is a git implementation on it which they use to develop either the protocol itself, or patchwork (a communication software:
<nckx>pkill9: Thanks. I read that description too, but if you said that it described IPFS as well I'd believe you. Guess I need to read more about both ☺
<nckx>(me: Isn't IPFS content-addressed [‘unforgeable’, ish?], append-only(?), peer-to-peer replication too? 🤷 )
<nckx>Maybe moar crypto. Moar crypto good.
<pkill9>what interested me is that they've implemented sending the data automatically over local networks between two instances, i was thinking it would be neat if you could send software between people using guix over a local network, for places that don't have internet access
<nckx>pkill9: That is kewl.
*nckx dd's the Guix installer to a 2-GB USB drive… no fit. TBH that's a bit redonkulous.
<pkill9>nckx: yea I think really they both use the same sort of technologies, they just implement it differently, like git is content-addressed/append-only, but it's not the same as IPFS
<pkill9>but ssb is focused more on using them for a messaging API it seems
<pkill9>I don't know much about these things though :P
<nckx>That makes two of us.
<nckx>Come to #guix for the informed #content and discussion!
<dongcarl>Hey y'all, just did a remote talk on bootstrappability and Guix in bitcoin. Apparently it was well-received at the conference :-)
<nckx>dongcarl: Yaaassss @ 1:10 \o/
<dongcarl>nckx: <3
<nckx>dongcarl: Which software do you use to make your ‘slides’? Slick stuff.
<dongcarl>nckx: Keynote, it’s surprising how much you can do with just Magic Move
<erudition>I knew it lol
<erudition>I so desperately want some libre software to support magic move
<nckx>‘Keynote is a presentation software application developed as a part of the iWork productivity suite by Apple Inc.’
<dongcarl>I know, it really sucks there isn’t a good alternative
<erudition>PowerPoint has it now too
<dongcarl>But that doesn’t mean we can’t use it to promote free software 😊
<erudition>True but it does mean free software presentations can't practically be that slick :(
<xavierm02>do you have a mac or did you manager to get macos running in a vm?
<erudition>Doing the same with animations in Libreoffice or such would take forever
<rekado_>I’m way behind on presentation tech; what’s “magic move” and what does it do?
<rekado_>is this how the animations were made?
*kmicu states that only presentations in Beamer are slick.
<Tirifto>What about TeXmacs? :o
<dongcarl>xavierm02: I have an old mac that I use just for keynote lol
<dongcarl>rekado_: Yup! Basically, to move something, just duplicate slide, move it, and it'll figure out the animation
<dongcarl>Also comes with nice easein/easeout algorithm for that eyecandy
<kmicu>Tirifto: nice to see another european INRIA related project.
<M4R10zM0113R>anyone got example config.scms? Like, beyond the ones in the "installation"?
<tune>you can search github for config.scm and find all sorts of people's
<M4R10zM0113R>how'd I configure elogind? can't seem to be able to do (elogind-configuration (handle-lid-switch ignore)) just like that
<roptat>how can I override the /etc/profile in my system?
<roptat>or /etc/environment
<kkebreau>M4R10zM0113R: You must use 'modify-services'.
<kmicu>roptat: /etc/environment I assume with (undocumented) session-environment-service (from PAM).
<kkebreau>See "Using the Configuration System" in the Guix manual for a general example, or line 150 of my personal config.scm ( for a specific example.
<jgibbons[m]>I welcome help fixing the packages on my github repository
<rekado_>dongcarl: oh, that sounds easy. I guess one could do this with Synfig, but it would be painful.
<rekado_>(maybe not as painful as using Inkscape as I do)
<roptat>mh... modify-services didn't find the etc-service-type it seems... I think that's because it's added only later, so it's not in %base-services
<roptat>I tried to add an etc-service-type, but then there are two etc services, and adding a simple service to extend etc-service-type didn't work either because /etc/profile already exists
<roptat>oh, extending session-environment seems doable
<Tirifto>kmicu: Yeah. It has a presentation mode, too, but I'm not sure how it compares to Beamer. :P
<roptat>it's working :D
<M4R10zM0113R>kkebreau: I get "config unbound variable"
<kkebreau>M4R10zM0113R: Hmm. Can you paste your config.scm to or something like it and share it here so I can see what might be going on?
<dftxbs3e>hey there
<kkebreau>This should work.
<kkebreau>Because the elogind service is already part of %desktop-services, you have to use modify-services like shown.
<M4R10zM0113R>kkebreau: thank you, I wish to learn how to infer this too
<kkebreau>You're welcome! The longer I use Guix, the more I learn about it. It will likely be the same for you.
<kkebreau>I learned about the modify-services feature by reading someone else's config.scm, too.
<M4R10zM0113R>kkebreau: but...
<M4R10zM0113R>it has more parentheses...
<kkebreau>What has more parentheses?
<M4R10zM0113R>I tried the snippet, and it errors
<kkebreau>Hmm, I might have added too many.
<kkebreau>M4R10zM0113R: What error do you get? I just checked, and it seems to be the right amount of parentheses.
<M4R10zM0113R>kkebreau: /etc/config.scm:111:1: missing closing parenthesis
<M4R10zM0113R>... it was missing one
<M4R10zM0113R>But, does it keep %desktop-services?
<M4R10zM0113R>oh it did
<kkebreau>Yes, it does.
<M4R10zM0113R>Ever tried setting a different shell for an user?
<kkebreau>No, it's been a while since I've tried that.
<kkebreau>Is that not working for you in the configuration file?
<M4R10zM0113R>the snippet, yes, the shell setting, almost... just that it points to a directory, not the shell inside it
<kkebreau>The documentation says that one should use a G-expression to specify the shell to use.
<nckx>M4R10zM0113R: Are you manually file-append'ing "/bin/the-sh" to the package variable?
<nckx>You must.
<nckx>Yes, as kkebreau said, use a gexp.
<kkebreau>Probably something like (shell (local-file (string-append zsh "/bin/zsh")))
<kkebreau>Anyone correct me if I'm wrong.
<nckx>kkebreau: It might not be wrong (no idea) but why not go with the file-append approach?
<nckx>#$(file-append bash "/bin/bash")
<nckx>Hm, probably don't even need #$ here.
<kkebreau>nckx: Yes, this is better. Didn't know about file-append until now.
<kkebreau>So g-expressions are interesting.
<roptat>I managed to break gdm somehow...
<roptat>I started on a generation where it worked, but now it's starting and stopping in a loop
<roptat>'New session c505 of user gdm.'
<xavierm02>When I install krunner, am I not supposed to have a krunner command?
<roptat>probably :)
<roptat>what's you $PATH?
<nckx>xavierm02: Nope.
<nckx>ls `guix build krunner`
<nckx>etc/ include/ lib/ share/
<xavierm02>then how do I start it?
<nckx>I don't even know what it is.
<xavierm02>a launcher
<nckx>xavierm02: But does it provide a binary? Or is it a plugin to something (Plasma)? It provides things like, which smells like the latter.
*nckx hopes someone here uses KDE and can provide answers.
<xavierm02>If there's no binary idk how people use it since there is no kwin package
<kkebreau>KRunner is supposed to be built into the Plasma desktop, according to
<kkebreau>There aren't any standalone binaries in other distributions that package krunner, either.
<kkebreau>See and
<cap>g_bor[m]: Hey, would you like to share your config.scm? I'm still trying to setup sway/guix.
<g_bor[m]>cap: hello, I can do that, but I'm afraid you won't find anything interesting there.
<g_bor[m]>I even don't have sway in it :)
<g_bor[m]>the only interesting is that I got rid of some desktop services.
<g_bor[m]>My list of services is network-managed, wpa-supplicant, upower, polkit, elogind, dbus and alsa, ntp and %base-services.
<roptat>g_bor[m], have you read the latest mail on bootstrappable@?
<g_bor[m]>User manifest has sway, rxvt-unicode, icecat, and buch of fonts and icon themes.
<g_bor[m]>My sway config is modified to use my keyboard layout, and to use a 24 hour format for time display, otherwise it's the default copide from the package.
<g_bor[m]>roptat: no, I did not.
<roptat>g_bor[m], someone is working on "bootstrapping" kotlin (although it's bootstrapping from an existing binary)
<g_bor[m]>roptat: iirc you have also made some progress on this. Some dependencies were still missing....
<g_bor[m]>I am trying to get that mail :)
<roptat>I have a recipe for 0.5 or 6, but it's hard to understand what version of intellij is required for it
<roptat>I tried with the latest intellij, and fixed a few API changes in kotlin, and I was able to build the kotlin compiler, but it failed completely at runtime
<roptat>so I'm now trying to find the right version of intellij and to use a much older version of it
<roptat>I think I need a version from around 2012 or 2011
<roptat>I removed my "fixes" for API changes, and I'm still left with two errors while building the compiler
<roptat>hopefully, by using the right version of intellij, it will be able to compile something :)
<g_bor[m]>roptat: nice. I got the mail, I will have a look.
<roptat>well, they're just going to hide the fact that they're using a non bootstrapped compiler under the carpet :p
<roptat>and they're assuming they have a working gradle
<roptat>but right now I'm a bit busy with reinstalling my system
<roptat>I finally managed to make my ~ a guix profile :)
<g_bor[m]>roptat: I am also reinstalling my system, I have some configs to refine...
<roptat>I think it's going to be nice, but it'll be a lot of work too
<g_bor[m]>roptat: I am interested in how this finally worked.
<g_bor[m]>Now I have to go to sleep.
<roptat>I had to create a symlink for ~/.local and ~/.cache that's all
<g_bor[m]>See you later!
<roptat>but now I'm in trouble with icecat ^^'
<recj>when trying to compile anki fro source, i get `xdg-mime: No writable system mimetype directory found.`
<recj>also, i had to make a /usr/local directory manually i believe
<recj>if i can't compile this from source i can only imagine what a nightmare packaging it might be
<cap>g_bor[m]: I still would be really glad. I'm new to guix and trying to learn from other peoples configs
<nckx>recj: It doesn't work that way. *Those* problems are automatically taken care of by Guix (you'd not even want a writable system anything, nor /usr/local). What you'll get are *other* new and exciting problems, but they might be fewer, easier, tougher, or none at all.
<cap>g_bor[m]: what is the difference between the config and the user manifest?
<recj>that's what i thought nckx
<nckx>You thought well.
<recj>i figured that would get patched normally so hmmm
<recj>also the mozc package still doesn't work and i don't know why lol
<recj>makes sense. i have to see if there are some guidelines for compiling from source on guixsd either way because of the different directory structure
<recj>anything with /usr/bin behaves this way iirc
<nckx>recj: Well, /usr/local isn't patched automatically everywhere, but it the best-behaved build systems (that respect --prefix &c.) it will be set for you. Otherwis, it's still much easier to patch hard-coded FHS names in a package definition than outside of it.
<nckx>recj: My point was more that, yes, admittedly, ./configure && make && make install on Guix is a nightmare, but that doesn't mean that Guix packaging is too.
<recj>i don't think it's guix's fault
<recj>i think it's with the way certain things are supposed to be compiled
<recj>and the assumptions theymake about your system
<nckx>Basically. It's the sheer creativity of developers in finding new and incompatible ways to hard-code things that makes it fun ;-) It would be boring if everyone respected --prefix, or PREFIX=, oh or prefix=, or DESTDIR= (but only for…) …
<nckx>…and that's just C.
<recj>i don't even want to know what devs in other languages are doing
<nckx>Some are much better, some are much worse.
<arbi>NixOS has installation instructions for "Installing from another Linux distribution" ( Does GuixSD have a similar walkthrough?
<arbi>I'm most interested in the first option, "Install GuixSD on another partition, from your existing Linux distribution"
<nckx>arbi: You'd install Guix on your ‘foreign’ distribution, then run mount the partition and ‘guix system init’ it.
<nckx>The manual covers installing Guix from the binary tarball.
<arbi>gotcha, thank you
<nckx>Most people seem to find it hard to understand that ‘installing Guix System’ isn't some magical thing like with other distros, it's just a single (and trivial) ‘guix’ invocation. ‘guix build me a GNU system’ instead of ‘guix build me grep’, so to speak.
<nckx>Not sure how we can communicate that clearly in the manual without making people think they missed something…
<nckx>Just point the Guix stick at something and poof.
<nckx>Do not point the Guix stick at people or animals.
<xavierm02>When I guix search, it finds two versions of openssl: 1.1.1c and 1.0.2p. Is that normal?
<nckx>xavierm02: Yep. Some packages don't work with one version, so they use the other.
<nckx>(I think 1.1.1c is ‘openssl-next’, but don't quote me on that.)
<eric23>guix pull is giving me warnings... is anyone else having that problem?
*nckx pulls.
<xavierm02>nckx: Alright. So I guess I should rather be impressed with how few packages keep several versions